00:00:03.68 alexei sayle what episode how many Hello everybody.

00:00:04.88 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Oh, we're on episode 64.

00:00:07.74 alexei sayle Welcome to episode sixty-four of the Alexi Cell Podcast. Slightly delayed but it does mean it's Christmas morning. Ping goes on your phone and it's a new new edition of the Alexi Cell Podcast and you think well what what better Christmas gift could there be than this really?

00:00:27.88 alexei sayle That hovercraft that my auntie has bought me. That is nothing as compared to the Christmas morning miracle of the Alexis Hill podcast. But, and as you know, as ah we are, you know, as there is a yin, there is a yang.

00:00:43.10 alexei sayle The reason that we're slightly delayed because we've been, um, we've, we've learned our lesson and have been putting out a podcast every week, which is what, what the machine demands.

00:00:53.43 alexei sayle Um, but we didn't this week because Portal has been ill. Would you like to tell the ladies and gentlemen about that?

00:00:58.59 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Oh, man.

00:01:01.38 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal yeah sorry ladies and gents yeah we missed last week's drop um we have a good one in the bank as well so that'll come out next week won't it but yeah i was meant there'll be a video edition of it yes um oh spoilers yeah exactly yeah filmed in high def wide angle uh

00:01:10.51 alexei sayle Yes, that's ah that's an all we're gonna do it on audio boom, but do it on YouTube as well as a as a film. It's just me, me sitting on the couch and Andrew Feinstein sitting on the couch. But it's not. Yeah.

00:01:32.33 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal But yeah, i was i was out of I was in the wars, man. I couldn't do any work. um I was in fucking hospital basically on Thursday night. um But before I tell you that, so there there was so like almost two years ago,

00:01:52.28 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I don't know if you remember Alexei, I was having these really bad stomach pains and they were getting worse and worse and worse.

00:01:56.19 alexei sayle What do you remember?

00:01:59.41 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And when it became unbearable, I went to the doctor and he touched my tummy in a certain place and I said, ow.

00:02:01.09 alexei sayle Hmm.

00:02:07.04 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:02:08.09 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And he said, you're an idiot, idiot go to A and&E now, what are you doing? He thought my appendix was on the verge of exploding.

00:02:13.99 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:02:14.87 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I ended up in hospital for three days because it wasn't my appendix. There was an and an infected abscess in my colon.

00:02:19.97 alexei sayle Ooh.

00:02:24.09 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Oh yeah, warning trigger warning for listeners.

00:02:25.17 alexei sayle yeah

00:02:26.25 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal There's some body horror it stuff.

00:02:28.20 alexei sayle Ooh.

00:02:29.33 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um but And they said if the antibiotics didn't work, they were going to have to cut out my lower intestine. And it was terrifying and I had three days in hospital and luckily the antibiotics worked and then I was probed and prodded and scanned and given the all clear eventually.

00:02:42.97 alexei sayle Right.

00:02:52.05 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And so last Thursday night, I normally edit the podcasts Thursday, Friday, so that we release it on Saturday. and But um on Wednesday night, actually, me and my girlfriend ate a massive, huge pizza each. And I started feeling stomach pains that evening. um And I'm i'm like um like, all right, this is worrying. And then Thursday night, I'm lying in bed, unable to sleep because the pain is getting really, really bad.

00:03:25.77 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal and I start having a horrible panic attack because I'm thinking, I did a gig on Thursday evening and I came home and, well, you got to work when you're freelance, man.

00:03:33.72 alexei sayle Oh, you, that's the, yeah the that's the Alec Morcom medal for free but for comedy, comedic bravery, though, that you should be awarded for that.

00:03:44.10 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal thank you thank you very much it was an improv show as well can you believe it um uh it was the look of disappointment in your face um but you got to work and i was really worried because like i couldn't work last week and i missed the podcast cost and this is my main income and i'm like fuck am i gonna even make rent next month and it's christmas coming up work is like really thin on the ground and

00:03:50.60 alexei sayle Dr. Theatre, Dr. Theatre.

00:04:00.34 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:04:08.62 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And I started having a panic attack because I think I'm about to go to hospital and spend three days in hospital again. And they're going to threaten to cut out my guts again and all this. And I'm freaking out in bed and crying my eyes out and and suffering agony as well. So like 2.30 in the morning, I get out of bed drenched in sweat and I call 111 because of course I don't want to bother.

00:04:32.53 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal the people at 999 with anything and rightly so I think I wasn't going to die but I called 111 and I explained everything that I've just said to you and he says this lovely guy called Assim on the phone he books me an emergency appointment at four o'clock in the morning for these out of hours doctor's appointments I didn't know you could get those

00:04:34.80 alexei sayle goes there.

00:04:56.70 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:04:58.49 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um

00:05:00.91 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal and it's down the road from me. the Yeah, the there's a out there health center down the road.

00:05:07.31 alexei sayle It's not all night health center down there, right?

00:05:09.85 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah, well, it was locked up and I thought I got there and I was like, well, it seems locked up and there's a buzzer and the guy's like, come to the first floor and then the doors magically open.

00:05:12.53 alexei sayle Yeah?

00:05:20.79 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal So yeah, I went there. My car like didn't start properly at first, but eventually started. I was freaking out about that. And I got there and, ah

00:05:30.19 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal She did ah loads of tests on me, this lovely doctor and turns out I have a UTI.

00:05:37.50 alexei sayle Right, it's a urinary tract infection for anybody.

00:05:40.42 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah.

00:05:42.42 alexei sayle Usually I just, to my mother used to get those frequently and she'd, I think the last one, one of the late ones she had, you often get ah delusional, don't you?

00:05:42.65 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal which is

00:05:52.05 alexei sayle And she, she was in the hospital and she insisted that the nurses and doctors were having parties inside the walls. But the thing was, once she got better, she still insisted that that was true.

00:06:03.14 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Oh, no. Well, yeah.

00:06:04.11 alexei sayle She's so stubborn, my mother. She was like, you said there were nurses and parties and all. She said, yes, they were. How would they get in the world?

00:06:10.25 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Jesus.

00:06:12.12 alexei sayle You're lunatic.

00:06:14.56 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Is that I think once when you have those delusions, they become memories, don't they, I suppose, but your logic would tell you it can't be true, but stubborn, you said.

00:06:14.60 alexei sayle Anyway, sorry.

00:06:18.62 alexei sayle I suppose so she was just, yeah, Molly didn't really, Molly wasn't a great great believer in logic.

00:06:29.02 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I wish it was an abscess in my tummy because the pain that followed over the weekend, I've never experienced anything like it.

00:06:32.24 alexei sayle Right.

00:06:37.94 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal It was and I can see why people get hallucinations because the pain is so intense.

00:06:41.29 alexei sayle Right.

00:06:44.20 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And it was mainly in my bladder because again, sorry for over explaining, but it didn't it didn't hurt when I necessarily didn't hurt when I peed.

00:06:53.70 alexei sayle Right.

00:06:54.17 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal It just hurt all the time.

00:06:55.26 alexei sayle Good to know. Yeah.

00:06:56.73 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And it was like above where the pee was, like it's at the bottom of my tummy, just constant pain.

00:07:00.09 alexei sayle Right.

00:07:02.58 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And then these cramps would come, which were just searing, agonizing, like screaming. um I feel so shut up.

00:07:08.50 alexei sayle Shouldn't have stopped you putting the fucking podcast out there, really.

00:07:11.07 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I feel so bad for my neighbors. Screaming and agony and moaning.

00:07:15.20 alexei sayle Really, I'm sorry.

00:07:16.07 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal My neighbors must have been like, what the fuck's going on upstairs? And I can't move, like when when I was walking around, I'm like hunched over, I'm like a shell of a human, like a shadow just hunched over, walking as slow as I possibly can. And any movement, cause you know, your bladder is like a ball filled with, half filled with liquid, isn't it? And if the inner walls of that ball are infected, anytime liquid touches them, you get this stinging, searing,

00:07:47.69 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal So anytime like I drink water, cause I have to constantly drink water and then my bladder would fill up and it would go and just fucking burn. It was like these stinging cramps.

00:07:58.70 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I really just, it grounded me, man. It made me realize how fragile we are. And it, not to sound too tacky, but it did make me think of those suffering, ah especially like in in fucking Gaza where there's no, no hospitals.

00:08:12.78 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:08:14.25 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Imagine if you had that and there was no antibiotics.

00:08:14.43 alexei sayle Yeah. yeah

00:08:17.48 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal and I want to help you.

00:08:18.19 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:08:18.35 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I'm so lucky I have an amazing girlfriend who just broke off from work and had to cancel all her plans to be fucking night nurse for me and clean up around me and shit and just have to deal with this Brooklyn crawling around the flat.

00:08:27.57 alexei sayle yeah

00:08:33.38 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:08:34.56 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um And they're...

00:08:35.46 alexei sayle Well, it sounds awful. for I don't think I've ever been. i I'm sort of being that ill, but not in that level of pain, I think. So ah i'm I'm sorry.

00:08:43.53 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal No.

00:08:47.27 alexei sayle And I'm sure everybody in the Erxysale podcast community wishes you well.

00:08:54.57 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Thank you. I woke up today feeling human again for the first time.

00:08:57.15 alexei sayle No, that's good. And we we resolved, didn't we? We thought, well, we better get something out for Christmas, really.

00:09:02.76 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yes, you i'm I'm loving this get up and go attitude of yours. By the way, since we started the weekly ones, which was your idea to my surprise, because when we started this podcast, I was like, yeah, we normally normally podcast go out every week and you're like, nah, what we'll do one win when I can be bothered or when we have a guest or whatever.

00:09:10.55 alexei sayle Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:09:23.78 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And I was very happy to do that. But then a few weeks ago, you called me, it's like, let's do one every week Talal. What do you think? Wouldn't that be swell? but And then this morning you call me, are you better yet Talal?

00:09:34.93 alexei sayle That sounds like me.

00:09:38.11 alexei sayle Yeah, come with you.

00:09:38.65 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal We should do one. It's Christmas.

00:09:41.09 alexei sayle Yeah, well, well, yeah, I mean, yeah.

00:09:44.63 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And I love it. I love this attitude and I love just putting stuff out there. Why not people like to hear from

00:09:50.53 alexei sayle Yeah, well, I realised that, yeah, you didn't. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, still, um it is proving more popular than the occasional, you know, even the amazing.

00:09:59.74 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I hope so. I think so. We're getting a lot more engagement, which is good,

00:10:03.59 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:10:04.99 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um ah emails and and comments. And there's a couple ah couple of, what's the word? I don't know, annoying commenters, but in a sea of really positive stuff and engaging stuff, not even just positive for the mean people who are like discussing things that on the Syrian one,

00:10:20.95 alexei sayle Yeah. Yeah.

00:10:27.98 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal The last episode we put out or talking about the Syrian ah ousting of Assad, the revolution, the uprising, whatever you want to call it.

00:10:31.91 alexei sayle Hmm.

00:10:36.66 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal A lot of comments are just discussing the topic and.

00:10:37.84 alexei sayle Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I have been thinking about that a lot, really, because I think it does. um I mean, I think they're probably right that Joe Larnie is a ah stooge of the text and by and but and I had a report yesterday saying that all the arms have to come under the his control, really, which means.

00:10:57.82 alexei sayle disarming the Kurds, which means, you know, that is Turkey's main desire. And I think it also means that the the flow of arms to Hezbollah and how much the the Palestinian resistance is severely affected because it came down through Syria. It's just that, it's that thing that because Syria and Iran are enemies of the West, that we can't admit that they're also terrible countries.

00:11:26.41 alexei sayle You know, unless I was just thinking, let mean let's remember that when Khomeini came to power after the Islamic after the revolution, it was in an alliance with socialists and communists you know i mean they did a lot of the heavy lifting of of deposing the show and of course the first thing he did was to exterminate them all really so i mean i wish i wish there was like a really nice country that we could say is aids the palestinian resistance but there isn't you know the the there's no you know and i you know it's it's all one of the things that's always bothered me about my parents communism was that they turned a blind because they thought that the soviet union was a

00:12:05.55 alexei sayle superior state, which in some ways it was, they turned a blind eye to all its deficiencies, you know, the show trials and the, um you know, the the kind of the the lack of a very real democracy and, yes, the secret police state and so on and so forth.

00:12:25.98 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal But isn't it still a bit early to be saying that there's no chance of of democracy happening in Syria?

00:12:33.03 alexei sayle Well, we'll see, really. I know you're more optimistic than I am, really. am i I remain i'm cynical about it, really.

00:12:39.40 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal it's not even It's not even a matter of more optimistic.

00:12:42.23 alexei sayle I know it's not. It's only been a couple of weeks. but

00:12:46.27 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal it's just

00:12:47.31 alexei sayle but yeah i mean if the they

00:12:47.86 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal it being a good thing that happened.

00:12:51.25 alexei sayle Yes, absolutely. there were some people who were There were some people who were in prison and being tortured, who are now not in prison and being tortured.

00:12:52.55 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal and

00:12:57.89 alexei sayle And that's ah that's an amazing thing. I mean, that's fantastic. And we shouldn't, yeah, because you know because it has severely affected, ah you know, will severely affected Iran.

00:13:09.23 alexei sayle And, you know as well you know, because it has affected the armed resistance, to israel there is no reason to not be happy about that, whether in few weeks time or some other different people are in jail and being tortured of course is another.

00:13:23.61 alexei sayle We will see really, I know you're more optimistic than I am really, and yeah so much it is a marvellous thing. Whoever was financing it, however many foreign fighters were in HDS or one One Direction or whoever they are, ah ah ah ah you know it's still a marvellous thing that people and

00:13:41.74 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal an american of support isn't the be all and end all like america did support h the hts and now they they were behind the sdf this time the

00:13:53.87 alexei sayle Mmm, kids, yeah.

00:13:54.36 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal It's whatever makes them look good is who they will go behind. and

00:13:57.96 alexei sayle Probably, but they will also drop. I mean, yeah, the kids were leading the fight, you know, because we said one thing last time, we're leading the, leading the fight against ISIS, that they, all the, the, the prisons with the, kit with the ISIS in, are in, in Kurdish, in the Kurdish controlled regions.

00:14:12.47 alexei sayle And so I don't know how, but to you know take i mean certainly anyway erdogan for whatever reason I don't know a huge amount about the politics of that but I mean Erdogan for whatever reason wants to crush Kurdish resistance both in his own country and in the broader Syrian diaspora and ah i think that I think that you could see from you my military context

00:14:26.36 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah, he hates them. He's...

00:14:37.76 alexei sayle You could tell me that, you know, all the arms were really, HDS came from Turkey really. And so he who pays the piper tends to call the tomb.

00:14:47.84 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal well uh well we're yet to to see what outcomes of that but i did have a really nice uh call with my mum last week and she was still over george and i was like can you talk to me a bit about um about your feelings on syria and she's like talal it's it's still we're still celebrating there's still so much

00:14:51.88 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:14:57.73 alexei sayle Mm-hmm.

00:15:11.99 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal So much more to come, like people in their millions are coming back to Syria. All these refugees that people have been complaining about over the last 12 years, you know, millions of them are going to start going back to their home because that's what they've always wanted.

00:15:15.91 alexei sayle Right.

00:15:25.82 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Um, people are flooding in from Turkey, and which is what something, another reason why Turkey might've been helping them because Turkey wasn't happy having these millions of refugees in their country and the other surrounding countries around Syria.

00:15:29.30 alexei sayle Now true.

00:15:37.80 alexei sayle True.

00:15:38.86 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal want these refugees back in their country. They're all walking, by foot, walking across the border, going back to Syria, ah including, you know, scientists, engineers, doctors, ah all faiths, going back to their homes.

00:15:45.01 alexei sayle Right.

00:15:48.40 alexei sayle Yeah. Yeah.

00:15:54.25 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal So far, ah Christians and other minorities haven't been persecuted.

00:15:59.36 alexei sayle No.

00:16:00.42 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um And it's not,

00:16:06.34 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal If you look at the immediate aftermath in in the Libyan revolution, it's not gone down that road yet. We've not had mass casualties.

00:16:16.52 alexei sayle no

00:16:17.61 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal The worst things we've seen have been foreign states bombing Syria still, you know, including Turkey and Israel.

00:16:22.12 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:16:25.90 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um So let's see. but um ah we i had a couple When we released that episode, I had a bout of paranoia and self-doubt because people there were some comments that were calling me ignorant and all that.

00:16:28.20 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:16:38.61 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And I was like, they're not Syrians. And they were telling me ah they were telling me I was wrong for having my feelings about having a dictator who killed members of my family and and countless others.

00:16:40.97 alexei sayle Yeah. Absolutely.

00:16:50.39 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And as we can see from the mass graves, I was celebrating him being gone.

00:16:50.68 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:16:55.51 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal and people saying oh no he was a friend of Palestine he was not a friend of Palestine he'd killed thousands of Palestinians himself refugees in Syria and I just I got an amazing a really nice email ah from Pete um saying our episode was a breath of fresh air lots of left-leaning outlets um have been banging on about Syria and negative terms and and

00:17:00.74 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:17:12.94 alexei sayle Right.

00:17:21.43 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And now I'm quoting him, I asked frequently, well, what do you want for Assad still be in control? And if not, what do you want then? No answer. um You know, I'm not naive. There's a long way to go.

00:17:31.86 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And it could still all implode.

00:17:32.20 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:17:33.34 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I'm agreeing with everything he says so far.

00:17:35.42 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:17:35.99 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal But ah but as you said, allow them at least this moment of celebration.

00:17:39.87 alexei sayle Yeah, I agree with that.

00:17:40.71 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um

00:17:41.07 alexei sayle Yeah, I mean, I think that that it's just that it's that contradiction and you know, which has always existed on the left and last in the 20th century and 21st century of that, of not criticizing, ah you know, somebody who it appears to be aiding what we would consider our cause.

00:17:58.70 alexei sayle And I think that is something that we have to find a way to not do really because I think it's a mistake. I think it corrodes your own honesty if you are making excuses for a dictatorship simply because it is because it is aiding the Palestinian resistance for example.

00:18:16.99 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal have They weren't.

00:18:17.93 alexei sayle It corrodes your honesty, it corrodes your reputation for honesty in the eyes of other people. I understand why people are so desperate for a win. Owen Jones, who have a great deal of respect, who has redeemed himself with his coverage of Palestine. Nevertheless, there's that kind of sarky thing of laughing at the left, who are ah you know supported outside or deplore his fall.

00:18:51.54 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I haven't seen his coverage of Syria anymore.

00:18:53.28 alexei sayle i Actually, I haven't very much, but I just get the feeling really, I've seen your deadline.

00:18:57.90 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I should look into that.

00:18:58.07 alexei sayle and But it's not, you know it it comes out, I think we have to, it comes out of a kind of desperation really. We're so desperate for a win, we're so desperate for heroes, we're so desperate, you know we we we're so always so on the back foot that I think sometimes we lend our admiration to people who don't really stay but to deserve it and I think that that's something that we really with you know and I saw it in my parents' generation and you know I see it in and my own generation and it doesn't ultimately work if what we want is to somehow bring about socialism, communism, whatever you want to call it, to be um backing off on criticism of monsters because they're on our side is is always going to be problematic, I think.

00:19:55.06 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal We should always, yeah, no, we should always be honest about accountability and holding people to account and, cause if we forgive the sins of one person, why aren't we forgiving the sins of the other side?

00:19:55.87 alexei sayle and leads you to, you know, leads you to kind of jump into your mental loopholes that, you know, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, you just have to be completely honest.

00:20:10.91 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:20:11.21 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal You know, just, I

00:20:12.02 alexei sayle Yeah. You have to be, we have to be consistent really. As, as Jeremy has always been, of course.

00:20:17.59 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal was about to say,

00:20:18.76 alexei sayle Yeah. Jeremy.

00:20:20.77 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Just look at Corbin.

00:20:21.46 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:20:22.00 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal If they're not like him, then they're evil.

00:20:23.96 alexei sayle Yeah, yeah. Jeremy's always, Jeremy's always known the right line too to, to, you know, Jeremy's, Jeremy is our hero.

00:20:35.43 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Oh, bless him. The only JC I want this Christmas.

00:20:42.19 alexei sayle Now so there there was a thing that we did last which was a massive success millions and millions and millions of hits on which was the um alternative Christmas message if people remember I was so the alternative alternative yes I was so outraged when I heard about Stephen Fry's pusillanimous message about how how he supports the Jewish people which means he supports

00:20:51.72 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal the alternative alternative who's that

00:21:03.10 alexei sayle essentially those Jewish people who spoke Israel. And so we did ah an alternative alternative message, which by some metrics I think was more successful than his Channel 4 message. This year it's Chris McColloughsland doing their pleading for the the blind guy who won Celebrity, and but what's it called?

00:21:22.58 alexei sayle Come Dancing, what's it called?

00:21:24.63 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal strictly.

00:21:25.32 alexei sayle Strictly, yeah, Strictly. Yeah. So he's doing it this year and it's a plea for, um, create a tolerance for disabled people. So I don't really think we can do, and we can't do an alternative message calling for more, more intolerance towards disabled people, nor would we wish to list listeners.

00:21:41.83 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal less ramps no yeah no that's actually a really good cause but maybe we could bolster that message because think of the amount of disabled people in Palestine that have been created

00:21:45.74 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:21:51.53 alexei sayle Well, yes, I'm sure Chris, because message is going to be, is going to be, yeah you know, it's not going to be a Marxist one. I mean, the reason, the reason for all oppression, we could say the oppression of um discrimination against disabled people, discrimination of against people of other faiths and other, you know, other sexualities is down to this malevolent capitalist system that we live in, that we will only have true lack of discrimination. We only have true equality when we live under a system of ah socialism where all are regarded as equal and you know it doesn't it's an it's an economic system which doesn't ah depend on the um rampant exploitation of

00:22:39.41 alexei sayle you know, the many for the, you know, obscene wealth of the few, really, you know, I always think about that.

00:22:47.69 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal great can i just can i just say that that was beautiful man here here here here comrade

00:22:48.07 alexei sayle so let see we go Oh, thank you. Yeah, yeah, well, you know, it's that's our core message. you know I was just thinking about just that kind of trite Thatcher saying, which is, people quote sometimes, you know, the trouble with being a socialist is that you run out of other people's money.

00:23:11.12 alexei sayle But it's not other people's money. It's the people's money and you don't run out of it because it's being spent for the benefit of the people.

00:23:19.08 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Exactly.

00:23:19.30 alexei sayle It's not bloody Elon Musk's money. It's not Jeff Bezos' money.

00:23:22.77 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal If they're so adamant that we should have borders and states and nations, then why is the nation's money then divided into different, it should be the people's money.

00:23:32.91 alexei sayle Another obscenity of this.

00:23:35.01 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal If we are a nation, then we are a nation.

00:23:35.07 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:23:36.60 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal We are one unit who have to support and look out for each other and work for each other.

00:23:40.21 alexei sayle Yeah. Those rich people didn't make, you know, they don't make any money. They don't do it. You know, they, they don't make shit.

00:23:47.11 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal They didn't make shit.

00:23:50.17 alexei sayle They just fucking steal it, man. And, um, it should be.

00:23:54.12 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal The workers should have ownership of the means of production.

00:23:59.19 alexei sayle That's right. Communist manifesto, man.

00:24:02.50 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal ah Fucking, it's just, yeah, it's's it's outrageous, the inner inequality out here and it's just...

00:24:02.73 alexei sayle So, uh, yeah.

00:24:09.34 alexei sayle Cyclists of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains.

00:24:14.72 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Nice, that's a new one.

00:24:16.00 alexei sayle I just made that up. It doesn't entirely make sense. But yeah, anyway, but you know, we I'm not gonna, obviously, Chris McCausen's message will be, um will be a good thing and be, you know, call for greater tolerance and good on him and he's from Liverpool, I think.

00:24:26.22 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal we're not going to lampoon absolutely and also I've been oh nice and he won strictly that's brilliant

00:24:37.54 alexei sayle He won trickily, yeah. I don't like, or watch trickily, so I don't know what, you know, but yeah, I guess.

00:24:47.18 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal and A proof, a further proof that we're all equal and all capable is given the chance and given the opportunity.

00:24:47.45 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:24:53.00 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:24:56.74 alexei sayle we're all capable and what's our disabilities are We're all capable of taking part in unbelievably bad dancing with terrible music.

00:24:56.88 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Absolutely.

00:25:05.99 alexei sayle We're all free to do that with grotesque costumes.

00:25:07.84 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I told my strictly story. I told my strictly story and how I feel about that fucking business.

00:25:10.98 alexei sayle Yeah. yeah yeah It's gruesome.

00:25:14.70 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Oh.

00:25:17.64 alexei sayle I thought we'd... them ah

00:25:20.55 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay, so we I don't have to worry about coming over to your house and filming a Christmas message then this year.

00:25:25.02 alexei sayle No, I don't, I think it would be, it would be, it would be the trial, I think to, uh, yeah.

00:25:28.95 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Anyway, we don't want to we't want repeat. we We'll think of another opportunity to go viral. There'll be some other gimmick we can think of.

00:25:35.60 alexei sayle Yeah. Well, this is, yeah. Yeah. Some, something called turn up. So, um, I thought, uh, yeah, go on.

00:25:44.60 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I've got some activities for you if you want. All right, since this morning when you called me and said you want to record something, I've scoured the internet for some sort of festive activities, not festive at all, but some activities that um might interest you.

00:25:53.11 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:26:04.19 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I've got five quizzes. um Pick one, one to five.

00:26:10.27 alexei sayle Five quick, one.

00:26:13.07 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal one oh god all right this is the heavy one all right now we're going with one uh you can play along at home all right alexi what percentage socialist are you yeah that's the title of the quiz okay i'm gonna ask you some questions if at any point if a question triggers you to have a

00:26:15.92 alexei sayle Or five, or four.

00:26:25.28 alexei sayle Or percentage socialist, am I? Oh, right. Well, yeah. All right. This might be a bit too.

00:26:38.39 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal If you want to discuss it or talk about it, if you have a monologue on it, then by all means, there's no time limit.

00:26:40.07 alexei sayle Yeah. Yeah.

00:26:44.76 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um Question one, should the state should the state simply cease to exist? It's multiple choice. Should the state simply cease to exist?

00:26:53.10 alexei sayle Was that...

00:26:54.09 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yes.

00:26:55.68 alexei sayle There you go.

00:26:56.19 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal yeah Yes. No, then the market will kill us all. No, then the warlords will kill us all. or only if I get to be either one of the warlords or on the right side of the market, should the state simply cease to exist.

00:27:10.76 alexei sayle No, that's, this is a flippant, isn't it? It's it's not, you know, so so socialism is ah is a ah good arena for flippancy, which is why.

00:27:26.31 alexei sayle I mean, um and it's been comical, isn't it, this quiz? I mean, i mean it was the theory it was Lenin's theory that the state would that once you had socialism and then you progressed to communism and then the state would wither away and that is the ultimate goal of

00:27:32.36 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal what

00:27:41.93 alexei sayle when we get anarchism that yeah, I think that ultimately the state should wither away. I mean, it's not, but it's no point, you know, it, I mean, the conditions have to exist for it to wither away, I'm afraid, but obviously every, you know, this kind of oppressive state that we live under, you know, um, you know, constantly sub facial recognition, drone strike state that we live under.

00:28:08.77 alexei sayle should should should be with it away. But um you know I wouldn't say that the conditions for that, you know you can't you can't preemptively move to that stage.

00:28:20.64 alexei sayle I think that that's what Lenin said.

00:28:23.74 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay so I'll click on yes then.

00:28:23.90 alexei sayle ah But on the other hand, that was my possibly an excuse of his not to ever let go of power. But yeah, that's the ultimate aim, I think, of of of us on the left.

00:28:33.87 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal So I guess the question is wrong because it says should the state simply cease to exist and that is that ah simply is the problem.

00:28:40.28 alexei sayle It shouldn't, well, it it should it shouldn't, yeah, it should ultimately cease to exist. Yes. So the people, what we mean by that, obviously, is that there are, it's not that there are no structures, I think, for governance, but the the structure, the governance control of your life devolves down to a hyper-local level, you know, that you control every aspect of your own.

00:29:02.35 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Can I click yes, yeah.

00:29:04.02 alexei sayle a

00:29:05.41 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah, you're right. um But I think and in the the the nature of this multiple, I've had a little look at this quiz, the nature of them.

00:29:12.28 alexei sayle Well, I'm 100% socialist. I've given an extremely lengthy answer to a short question.

00:29:16.90 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um No, that's the point I wanted you to. I'm not trying to hurry you, but I think the the nature of this multiple choice is that you just got to pick the one that most fits with what you actually think.

00:29:19.46 alexei sayle Right.

00:29:27.69 alexei sayle Nothing. Yes.

00:29:28.41 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um And I'm going to ask a quick pause there because one of the symptoms of this bladder thing is that I drink a lot of water and I have to run and take a piss real quick.

00:29:39.00 alexei sayle All right.

00:29:40.15 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um If you want to fill time, you can, but I won't be long.

00:30:32.28 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal wo

00:30:35.00 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Right, sorry about that.

00:30:41.34 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay, I'm gonna give this quiz one strike. If it gets three strikes, then ah we'll we close the quiz and move on.

00:30:47.26 alexei sayle Well, you know, but thought I thought my answer was quite...

00:30:49.65 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Your answer was fantastic. Here's the second question. What is the best solution to climate change? um Do you want me to read the multiple choice or do you wanna just ramble on and then I'll pick the one that best suits

00:31:01.20 alexei sayle Well, well I guess the set with the same answer is it's always socialism. I mean, we we live in a society, I mean, that the The central problem with capitalism, it seems and it seems unfixable, is that we live in a society that depends on constant and greater consumption. So that that means two things. One, the one you the resources of the what are of the Earth, which are finite, are depleted.

00:31:32.93 alexei sayle And secondly, that we exist in a state of permanent dissatisfaction because you have to be convinced. People have to be convinced that the next thing they buy is the thing that's going to make them happy. And so you you you live in a way of both of mental imbalance and um physical imbalance.

00:31:46.03 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Mm hmm.

00:31:51.30 alexei sayle you know And that's why there's kind of the ridiculous of of wellness of that. the i mean you know You can make yourself feel mentally better, but the the reason that so many people are so unhappy is the economic state in which they live. And of course, that is never mentioned as a solution. um you know Take take two take these these pills that will bring about a worker's state, will bring about anarchism, your true anarchism.

00:32:22.65 alexei sayle that's never going to be you know so that so are any any meditation or increasing your zinc or whatever you know it might make you feel a bit better but it's not the solution to the world the solution to the world's to Britain's problems lying a true state of socialism without that we will I can't see yeah I mean if I mean, if, if, you know, Bravo, if they can find a way to, to not be continued depleting the Earth's finite resources, then, then, you know, I take my hat off to you. But I mean, at the moment, I mean, there's all this empty theatre of, you know, electric cars and

00:33:04.58 alexei sayle yeah Which is completely, you know, they're, they, they, I mean, you know, the electric cars are heavier, so they destroy the roads. And, or you get like the, you know, low traffic neighborhoods, I think, which, you know, I mean, they, which they do, you know, the, the, the, the neighborhoods are beautifully serene and where they've blocked off the traffic, but it just forces all the traffic onto the, onto the main roads. And that traffic has to be there for,

00:33:34.91 alexei sayle our consumer society to continue so you know in stuff like ah you know electric cars or heat pumps or all this stuff is just a kind of Seems to me to be a delaying tactic.

00:33:50.07 alexei sayle And the only, because you can't have, it's impossible to have a society which is based on continuing and growing consumption. I mean, that's what the Labour Party solution to the problems of this country is, is is increased growth, which means increase, as I understand it, I mean, maybe the listeners can prove me wrong, but increased growth, which means increased consumption of resources, increased shopping,

00:34:03.24 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah.

00:34:15.96 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal But as long as they're produced somewhere else and the pollution is somewhere else,

00:34:19.84 alexei sayle Well, yeah.

00:34:21.57 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal You can't nimby your way out of carbon, and ah climate climate change.

00:34:21.78 alexei sayle So

00:34:25.63 alexei sayle Well, no, I mean, you know, I mean, there's all that about it. I mean, it is typical. I mean, so and you do think sort of nature. I mean, the people who are suffering from the climate crisis, of course, are the ones just like, you know, the people of Palestine are the ones who pay entirely for European anti-Semitism. So the people of, you know, the the the developing world, you know, the global South are the ones paying for our consumerist lifestyles.

00:34:53.94 alexei sayle And again, the only the only solution I'm afraid is a change of economic priorities.

00:35:03.33 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal So I'm going to click on, nationalize nationalize all means of production, then simply stop using, again, the word simply, simply stop using carbon intense fuels.

00:35:04.44 alexei sayle We can't. Yeah.

00:35:12.11 alexei sayle m

00:35:15.44 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal That's, I think that best matches.

00:35:16.73 alexei sayle I mean, I'm not, I mean,

00:35:17.99 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal It's not perfect, but

00:35:19.32 alexei sayle Yeah, I'm not.

00:35:19.37 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal bit

00:35:20.63 alexei sayle I mean, I mean, as I actually don't. It always I was thinking about this last night just how much um I was thinking about Liverpool and that sort of in the 60s and 70s. The City Council hated small businesses.

00:35:32.30 alexei sayle They like big businesses. They love them because they could understand. And they're like big trade unions and they like big politics.

00:35:37.41 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Well, actually let me stop you there because the next question is how do you feel about for-profit companies?

00:35:39.15 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:35:45.19 alexei sayle Well, I think that I mean, again, you you know, um I don't offer any absolute salute. It seems to me that I've always had great sympathy with the um the small business, the small trader who's always been caught in the middle really between the kind of the big companies and it used to be the big trade unions and and and big politics really.

00:36:05.26 alexei sayle you know I think somebody runs starts a starter bar or cafe or you know a your business selling their own honey.

00:36:16.60 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Mhm.

00:36:16.76 alexei sayle um you know you can't You can't nationalize that, nor should you seek to, I think. And that was obviously a tremendous failure of that kind of Soviet style of communism was that everything was controlled by the state.

00:36:23.39 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Interesting. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

00:36:29.75 alexei sayle and that simply doesn't work. I mean, obviously, major utilities, rail, water, power should be controlled by the state. and But a you know i I think there has to be but you know there has to be um room for small enterprises. Now, some people would say that that then introduces these kind of contradictions, because what when the small businesses become big businesses, what you do about them then. And I i don't particularly have an answer for that.

00:37:02.67 alexei sayle i certainly I don't think that universal nationalization is, you know, is a good thing.

00:37:09.30 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Well, I suppose if a small business becomes big enough that it's mass producing or or supplying services to millions of people, then it has It's become a good point to maybe think about nationalizing it or putting it back into the hands of the people.

00:37:27.64 alexei sayle Maybe. I don't know. I don't know.

00:37:30.26 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal If there are more people working there than the people running it, maybe they should. Yeah, there's a complicated one.

00:37:36.46 alexei sayle rather than I mean, you could obviously have a fair degree, I mean, any and enterprise, you should have ah a fair degree of workers control. So the workers are, you know, there's workers sit on the boards and, you know, they decide, you know, policy and so on and so forth.

00:37:47.53 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal All right.

00:37:52.79 alexei sayle I think that that manager, the chairman, he had a lot of that and that doesn't seem to really work that well for them.

00:37:57.67 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay, so I'm gonna click on, so the question was, how do you feel about for-profit companies? I'm gonna click on big ones are evil, little ones owned by mom and pop are okay.

00:38:08.49 alexei sayle Hmm.

00:38:10.59 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal That seems to be the...

00:38:11.13 alexei sayle They've anticipated my response.

00:38:14.08 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal ah This next question is annoying. So I'm actually just gonna read all the choices for you straight away as well.

00:38:18.85 alexei sayle Hmm.

00:38:19.48 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal For what cause would you go to a march?

00:38:22.73 alexei sayle Well,

00:38:23.14 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Destroying capitalism, fairer wages, women's rights, or gun rights.

00:38:31.60 alexei sayle well let's

00:38:31.67 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal That's an annoying question. Yeah, this quiz is a piece of shit.

00:38:32.60 alexei sayle yeah.

00:38:33.92 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Strike two quiz.

00:38:35.79 alexei sayle It's American, isn't it?

00:38:36.99 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I guess it is, yeah.

00:38:37.40 alexei sayle this crazy

00:38:38.88 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal But there is a mention of something very British coming up, so. But ah which of those four should I pick, do you think? Doesn't really matter.

00:38:50.83 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Fairer wages, destroying capitalism, or women's rights.

00:38:52.49 alexei sayle No, I don't know. I ah refuse to. I'll take the Fifth Amendment on that one.

00:38:56.94 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay.

00:38:57.81 alexei sayle It's absurd.

00:38:58.67 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I wish there was a skip button. I'm going to click destroying capitalism.

00:39:05.97 alexei sayle Okay.

00:39:07.25 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal All right. What deceased political thinker do you at admire? Hmm?

00:39:14.36 alexei sayle um Oh, well, no, Jane. I ah just did a podcast for Global, get all those dinner parties, you know, my perfect dinner party.

00:39:26.37 alexei sayle And I chose Antonio Gramsci, the Italian Marxist, and somebody, um I admire him. um i I mean, you know, well, I mean, I admire, um I mean, um I'd like to actually know more about, ah I mean, I've read Francis Weane's biography of of Marx. It'd be interesting to read more about Engels, because Engels, of course, with Marx lived in pu penury, Engels lived, or ah you know, went fox hunting and stuff like that.

00:39:55.05 alexei sayle and yeah was the sign of a wealthy fabric manufacturing concern in the North.

00:40:00.76 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal marx

00:40:02.53 alexei sayle Engels was, Engels essentially financed Marx.

00:40:02.64 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Angles.

00:40:05.27 alexei sayle But nevertheless, he you know he he argued for his own destruction, as it was. I'd actually like to know more about the personal life of Engels.

00:40:13.08 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Angles and Gramsci are not here but Marx is. Alongside Robert Owen, who's that?

00:40:20.39 alexei sayle Robert Owen was a sort of, he sort of he argued for kind of

00:40:27.90 alexei sayle I think a sort of social socialism, but a kind of paternalistic socialism is a sort of reformer. I think a lot of the ideas of, you know, like these fact, these kind of factory towns, these benevolent factory towns like Port Sunlight or Bornville, or I think he was essentially a socialist reformer.

00:40:51.68 alexei sayle It's a long time since I've You don't hear much about him these days.

00:40:51.72 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay. And J.S.

00:40:54.78 alexei sayle ah Again, I might be ah i'd be completely wrong, but but that's what I seem to remember of him.

00:40:58.62 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal That's okay. It's Christmas, I'll forgive you. And J.S. Mill is on there, I guess, and Edmund Burke.

00:41:05.37 alexei sayle John Stuart Mill, the philosopher.

00:41:10.32 alexei sayle yeah

00:41:10.42 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal and Any thoughts you wanna share on either of those?

00:41:14.90 alexei sayle and

00:41:17.33 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal No, good.

00:41:17.51 alexei sayle not and Well, no.

00:41:19.55 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal All right, the next question is, it's gonna be a long place.

00:41:19.63 alexei sayle not Nice.

00:41:23.77 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal What sort of car?

00:41:24.17 alexei sayle I know that I could say their names and I do know if you said this is what they believe I would go. Yeah, of course they do.

00:41:29.19 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Oh yeah, of course.

00:41:30.61 alexei sayle I've temporarily forgotten.

00:41:33.31 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal What sort of car do you drive? I could answer this one for you. um

00:41:38.37 alexei sayle sitran C C6.

00:41:39.59 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah, but there's an answer here that says I use, I generally use public transport, but when I drive, it's either something really old or something electric.

00:41:48.84 alexei sayle Yeah, well, that's something really, well, pretty old. I mean, it's 2012, it's 12, yeah, on our cycle.

00:41:52.18 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I think that best fits, but you do use a lot of public transport. So a new cycle. Yeah.

00:41:59.00 alexei sayle I walk.

00:41:59.04 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal All right. How do you feel about the institution of marriage?

00:42:03.34 alexei sayle I've been married for 50 years, so I think I must feel quite well disposed to it. I mean, you could say it's a function of capitalism, I suppose, but Robert Louis Stevenson said marriage is a form of friendship recognized by the police.

00:42:21.44 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal great recognized by the police um oh god there's not an option for that

00:42:22.26 alexei sayle Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's it. That's what I think about marriage.

00:42:38.79 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal It's great and everyone should join it who wants to. That's what I'm clicking on for you. All right, how do you feel about communists?

00:42:47.54 alexei sayle Well, I spent well.

00:42:49.02 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Do you wanna hear the options?

00:42:50.35 alexei sayle Yeah, go on.

00:42:51.26 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay, option one, they're great. Option two, they're like that embarrassing drunk uncle who I hope people realize I can't stand either. Option three, they're utter idiots but currently less dangerous than fascists.

00:43:05.58 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Option four, I hate them.

00:43:08.55 alexei sayle nice first I think they're great.

00:43:08.97 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Not great options though. Yeah, they're great.

00:43:12.31 alexei sayle I think they're ace.

00:43:14.28 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Is healthcare a right?

00:43:14.38 alexei sayle Communists. They're the bomb.

00:43:17.50 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal and the Is healthcare care a right?

00:43:17.60 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:43:20.22 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:43:20.98 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah, of course. Whose voice do you admire to today in politics? Jeremy Corbyn. I'm clicking that one. I'm not even gonna bother reading the rest of them.

00:43:30.89 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:43:32.73 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Which country is a good role model? Hmm.

00:43:36.80 alexei sayle I wonder about Mexico, really. I mean, i think that um i know that i mean I'm low when I left office with massive approval ratings. and Yeah, that his Moreno or Moreno party, the president is now a Jewish woman, 80% also, 80%. In a country that must have um such a such tremendous problems, as my Argentinian friend says, poor Mexico. so

00:44:08.69 alexei sayle so far from God, so close to the United States. you know it's a it's ah yeah know I think having to to deal with the kind of minefield of the United States, you know, having the cartels, you know, which are the creation of the United States, because they're just the creation of the desperate need of the population of the United States to take as many drugs as possible to help them survive in that awful country.

00:44:23.56 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah.

00:44:35.27 alexei sayle I connected with also with the United States love of waving around guns when they're high on. So, um I admire Mexico, I think, again, people can email and say no, it's a shit. so I mean, I used suppose to agree you used to admire those.

00:44:56.31 alexei sayle The places that came closest to a kind of benevolent socialism in a capitalist world were, you know, the Scandinavian democracies, social democracies, but they they seem to be getting pretty shitty now.

00:45:08.74 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal o Oh, cause Norway is an option out of the four Mexico is not.

00:45:14.21 alexei sayle I don't know if I could really approve of a place where like it's 10 pound for a pint. Well, actually it's 10 pound for a pint here.

00:45:19.78 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah.

00:45:20.97 alexei sayle What am I talking about? 20 pound for a pint, I don't know, pizza cost 30 quid.

00:45:25.71 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal But there's a one of the option.

00:45:26.01 alexei sayle But they did, certainly they did.

00:45:27.84 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah, go on.

00:45:28.28 alexei sayle They take took their oil money and they put it in a sovereign wealth fund, whereas what Margaret Thatcher did was took our oil money and spent it on keeping people on the dole so they wouldn't, so they were both, they're unemployed, but they just got enough money to, and just got enough money to survive.

00:45:46.83 alexei sayle Actually, I just watched, there's a Norwegian, eh?

00:45:47.34 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And she demonized them all as well. And she demonized them all for doing so as well.

00:45:50.78 alexei sayle Yeah, yeah. So I don't know about Norway really. I mean, it's, I think, we I don't know, ah we we may still be boycotting them because of their whaling as well. They're bizarrely keen on whaling.

00:46:04.45 alexei sayle And, but, you know, I mean, interesting country. I don't, again, they don't know an awful lot about it, but, you know, Ibsen and, okay, yeah, let's go there.

00:46:10.50 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Let's do a bike ride there.

00:46:13.40 alexei sayle Let's go, let's go to Toronto.

00:46:14.26 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I'll click option one, which is the one that Marx describes in the Communist Manifesto.

00:46:15.71 alexei sayle ah

00:46:19.57 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal ah That's the closest thing I could find. All right. would you yeah Would you describe yourself as a feminist?

00:46:23.57 alexei sayle Which one's that? I mean, imaginary place. ah Yeah, probably. Yeah.

00:46:33.03 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Great. Does socialism automatically mean a high level of government involvement in your life? That's an interesting one.

00:46:42.03 alexei sayle Well, no, it shouldn't. ah No, I think that no. No, it shouldn't. It should the reverse really at a high level of government non involvement in your life.

00:46:55.51 alexei sayle We're not aiming for it's kind of paternalistic kind of interfering.

00:46:57.18 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal ah Interesting, okay. So would you say no, it's it's no, socialism is a step on the road to communism and the ut and ultimately the withering of the state?

00:47:11.35 alexei sayle Yes, I would that one.

00:47:11.89 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Or would you say no, that's authoritarianism, it's not even on the same axis?

00:47:17.68 alexei sayle No, I would say the first thing you said.

00:47:19.57 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay, great. um Should workers have a seat on corporate boards?

00:47:25.38 alexei sayle Yeah, we've already discussed. Yes, I don't know ultimately how much difference. I said Germany, which seemed all right until recently. Well, I think I had a lot of workers involvement on their corporate boards, but it doesn't seem to have led to certainly their foreign policy is monstrous.

00:47:40.76 alexei sayle And that I think when I read their economy seems to be collapsing as well.

00:47:41.34 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay. But there's also an option that corporations shouldn't exist, so no.

00:47:48.59 alexei sayle Well, that's true. Yes, they shouldn't.

00:47:50.24 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal So the one you said or that one?

00:47:51.98 alexei sayle No corporations shouldn't exist.

00:47:53.30 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay, great. How do you feel about labor unions? These are easy questions now, aren't they?

00:47:58.13 alexei sayle Yeah, I think they're good.

00:48:00.33 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay, they're great and necessary is what I'm clicking. All right, what is a good example of socialism doing a good job? Oh, it's a bit vague.

00:48:08.39 alexei sayle Well, I don't know.

00:48:10.49 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um I'll give you some options.

00:48:10.99 alexei sayle I mean, yeah.

00:48:12.50 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um Literacy rates, thanks to free free education.

00:48:17.26 alexei sayle cut Yeah.

00:48:17.65 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal ah Decreased maternal and infant mortality, thanks to healthcare.

00:48:20.95 alexei sayle Yeah.

00:48:22.43 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Or decreased pandemics because of sewers. which Yeah, I know, it's such a hard choice.

00:48:26.60 alexei sayle Well, all of those things, which of course all apply to Cuba, for example.

00:48:31.42 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah.

00:48:33.05 alexei sayle Even despite the despicable bloody United States boycott, which has gone on for 50.

00:48:39.95 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And during the whole Red Scare time in America, people would holiday in Cuba all the time, wouldn't they?

00:48:45.27 alexei sayle And that was before the revolution.

00:48:46.37 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And they'd go gambling there and stuff. Oh, that was before. Oh, right. Okay.

00:48:51.60 alexei sayle the

00:48:52.39 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal So it's hard to pick out of those three. They're all so good. But shall we, because of Cuba, shall I click sewers?

00:48:58.72 alexei sayle Yeah, go on.

00:48:59.68 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal All right. All right. We're nearly there, man.

00:49:04.22 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Oh, where would you say socialism went wrong?

00:49:08.63 alexei sayle Well, it hasn't, it hasn't really had the chance to get, went right anywhere. So, uh, you know, I'd like the chance to, uh, I'd like the chance to really, yeah, for to to try it probably really.

00:49:23.48 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay, maybe you need the options then, so just pick your favorite one.

00:49:26.76 alexei sayle Right.

00:49:27.18 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um Where do you think socialism went wrong?

00:49:27.94 alexei sayle yeah

00:49:31.03 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal A, it didn't turn into communism, where I hoped it would.

00:49:34.09 alexei sayle Hmm.

00:49:35.08 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal B, in the UK, where it scared off and handed control to the conservatives for 18 years.

00:49:41.29 alexei sayle Yeah, that's crap.

00:49:42.36 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal It's not quite how it happened. C, in France, where they strike at the drop of a hat and you can't fire anyone, meaning that hiring is also lower. Or D, Venezuela.

00:49:56.65 alexei sayle Well, I mean, Venezuela, again, is one of those countries where, you know, you have to admire in some senses, because it stands up to the United States, where I think it's probably far from perfect, really.

00:50:09.01 alexei sayle ah but I wouldn't, I wouldn't take any of those options, really.

00:50:13.92 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Hmm.

00:50:14.14 alexei sayle I don't think that socialism is ever really being tried properly.

00:50:21.12 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal interesting Interesting.

00:50:21.81 alexei sayle We've never had a chance to, you know, to try it.

00:50:24.56 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I wish I could skip fucking questions. And also they don't offer a description for Venezuela. I'm sorry for the quality of this quiz. That's a strike three on this quiz.

00:50:32.55 alexei sayle Are you ruining people's Christmas, I think?

00:50:35.49 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Fuck, I really wanna find out what percentage of a socialist you are. um Shit.

00:50:41.15 alexei sayle Oh, it's going to be like a tally at the end.

00:50:43.43 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah, I'm clicking the the one where we wish it turned into communism. Who should be allowed to serve in the military? I'm giving this quiz one last chance.

00:50:53.66 alexei sayle Well, you know, I have, ah see, I think one of the things that we need to, you know, one of the things, one of the things that's problematic about what's on the left is that we give the same old, we sometimes give the same old kind of rote answers and we don't have a position.

00:51:08.09 alexei sayle It's rather like when when we, when we show the film with Andrew Feinstein, he says things like we should go to Clapton.

00:51:15.37 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Hmm.

00:51:17.20 alexei sayle We shouldn't abandon places like Clapton because we find them. um You know, because people there are disillusioned and they've turned to the right. That's exactly where we should fight our battles.

00:51:27.92 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah.

00:51:28.70 alexei sayle And some of these two, we should have interesting positions about the military, not just make noises or ignore them. I remember hearing a Trotskyist, liberal, Scouse Trotskyist describe the military as, where has in uniform workers in uniform.

00:51:45.85 alexei sayle come I would not decry the idea of an army.

00:51:46.90 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah.

00:51:49.85 alexei sayle I think you would have an army but I think you would have an army where the armed forces in fact but where the ranks had you wouldn't abolish rank because I think you know you know and that's kind of absurd and an organization that sometimes needs to take you know decisions ah quickly but you would I would I would have a People's Army. i mean where the the the the the the way the the The ordinary soldiers chose that equipment specifically because you know it's a thread of my of these podcasts is the garbage that

00:52:23.40 alexei sayle British military is equipped with. And that is definitely all down to all down to the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

00:52:27.81 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah.

00:52:31.40 alexei sayle I don't believe that the ordinary sailor would choose Trident over a big fleet of of small small but adaptable boats. I don't think the ordinary soldier would have chosen the yeah the Ajax fighting vehicle, which makes everybody throw up.

00:52:47.44 alexei sayle Certainly wouldn't have chosen the L85 assault rifle where the magazine falls out of it. ah you know and then The average airman, I don't think would have chosen the J-35B, unbelievably expensive and useless fighter. So I think that the ordinary, that you have an army, I think it concentrates on defence, it doesn't concentrate on power projection, but it it it it is no less you have an armed forces.

00:53:17.73 alexei sayle I think in this world, you couldn't, it would be absurd to solve your armed forces, but it would be a it would be a people's army, Navy and Air Force.

00:53:29.69 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Wonderful.

00:53:29.81 alexei sayle not and the the The ordinary servicemen would choose their equipment.

00:53:32.53 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And it would be like people would put down their tools and pick up their guns and go, you know, like we'd all kind of, I'd have a Magnum.

00:53:39.84 alexei sayle Well, that's what they do in Switzerland. you I mean, every house has got an assault rifle in it in Switzerland, because they also have very low levels of gun crowding, you know, so it's not every... Yeah, you'd have what you...

00:53:52.70 alexei sayle Yeah, that's not really a military she weapon, but...

00:53:55.30 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal ah You said I could choose.

00:53:57.02 alexei sayle we Well, I don't know.

00:53:58.68 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal You said I could choose.

00:54:00.62 alexei sayle Already we're hitting the problem. You see, we're already hitting the problem.

00:54:03.30 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I want a Magnum.

00:54:04.53 alexei sayle ah You can't fucking have a magnum. You can choose from a limited number of options.

00:54:08.84 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal The fuck, man?

00:54:09.87 alexei sayle No, you're a your fellow cohort of, you know, but choose.

00:54:15.94 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I want a Magnum and a baseball bat. That's me. All right.

00:54:21.30 alexei sayle you're you're You're making our enemies case for us here.

00:54:25.29 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal You asked for it, mate.

00:54:26.29 alexei sayle You ruined Christmas.

00:54:26.33 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal You said I could choose. I'm on the front line.

00:54:29.19 alexei sayle All right.

00:54:30.56 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal My baseball bat has a one nail sticking out of it.

00:54:33.42 alexei sayle Well, I don't know. You've ruined my Christmas.

00:54:36.41 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal and I've got a cool hat on.

00:54:37.56 alexei sayle You've ruined my Christmas now.

00:54:41.17 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal All right, I like that. All right, what is something that you think of as socialism but almost never gets called socialism? There's lots of things, isn't it?

00:54:51.46 alexei sayle Oh, ah I don't Food banks.

00:54:53.90 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Say one random thing to your head now.

00:55:00.59 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Oh, that's not on there. I'm going to pick this one. Okay. ah Who is the economy?

00:55:10.06 alexei sayle Everybody.

00:55:11.29 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Very good. We're going into full. ah Will you say the workers or the workers and corporations?

00:55:19.39 alexei sayle Not just the workers.

00:55:20.26 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal The workers. Okay. We're going rapid fire now. What is a good reason to have a war? Go.

00:55:26.02 alexei sayle Well, I don't know. I mean, I don't, I, I, um, yeah I think oh you if you are, if you are attacked, I mean, genuinely attack, not like pretend attack like Israel, but yeah.

00:55:30.84 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Choose one. I'm sorry.

00:55:37.80 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah. Lovely. There's an option. You've been invaded.

00:55:43.09 alexei sayle Well, in that case, yeah.

00:55:43.46 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah. What should the hourly minimum wage be?

00:55:48.62 alexei sayle I don't know. Um, it should be the,

00:55:52.80 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay. Yeah. you

00:55:57.54 alexei sayle price of an expensive, how much does an expensive East Egg cost?

00:56:03.93 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Hmm.

00:56:05.60 alexei sayle The price of a price of a meal. The price of a meal that's Scott's in Mayfair.

00:56:10.97 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay, nice.

00:56:11.39 alexei sayle The price of a three-course meal at Scott's in Mayfair with a reasonably priced bottle of wine. So nothing, you

00:56:19.34 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal That's the hourly wage. I'm picking the highest one.

00:56:21.00 alexei sayle you know.

00:56:21.58 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Great. Who can you never trust?

00:56:31.47 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal That's not on. I surprise us, not on there. ah the Cat is not on there. Corporations or fascists?

00:56:42.99 alexei sayle both obviously uh

00:56:44.08 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah. Who more?

00:56:47.86 alexei sayle well fascist corporations i don't know that you know yeah

00:56:50.88 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal It's a hard one, isn't it? um Picking copper corporations. um

00:56:57.89 alexei sayle the whole yeah

00:56:59.17 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Ooh, who's more likely to take away your rights if they get the chance, the state or corporations?

00:57:05.95 alexei sayle operations, I suppose. i it It depends on the state. Your quiz is simplistic. Where did you get it?

00:57:10.56 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I know it's oh no it's very simplistic, but we're we're too near the end.

00:57:13.12 alexei sayle yeah yeah yeah comrade Your quiz is simplistic and therefore you should be you should be and while you use bringing it into our discourse.

00:57:15.77 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal It's not my quiz, comrade. It's an American quiz.

00:57:21.68 alexei sayle You should be sent to a labor camp for re-education.

00:57:22.45 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Look at the note, I'm not regretting anything. I know Comrade, I don't regret anything. It's made you have some really good outer monologues there.

00:57:30.38 alexei sayle no but they okay

00:57:31.80 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal So I'm really pleased with what it's brought out of you, Comrade.

00:57:34.93 alexei sayle all

00:57:36.64 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um Okay, um but we're trying to fly through these because we're too near the end to give up. What is the biggest reason for growing inequality?

00:57:46.42 alexei sayle No, capitalism.

00:57:46.45 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal What do you think? Yeah, okay. Assuming everyone was going to obey it, What is the one law you would pass today?

00:57:56.56 alexei sayle Be excellent to each other and party on, dude.

00:58:00.44 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I love you so much.

00:58:03.79 alexei sayle Spill and Ted.

00:58:04.76 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I know, I'm gonna make a i'm gonna click a maximum ratio between worker and CEO salaries.

00:58:15.03 alexei sayle Well, it should be more or less the same, really, shouldn't it?

00:58:15.30 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Or I'd make sure everyone has a gun.

00:58:20.38 alexei sayle Well, yeah, I mean, in a way, I'm going to surprise you by saying, yeah, if it's like a, like in Switzerland, where it's part of a people's militia, yeah.

00:58:26.41 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah, um go go the curve I'm ball. I'm going to click that one, actually.

00:58:30.59 alexei sayle Hmm.

00:58:30.73 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal All right. um You have become president on a manifesto, on a very socialist manifesto.

00:58:36.11 alexei sayle Hmm.

00:58:36.94 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal What spending priority will your and its administration have?

00:58:43.58 alexei sayle oh dear you yeah

00:58:45.05 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I'll give you some options.

00:58:46.81 alexei sayle um yeah

00:58:48.31 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Resigning en masse so as to trigger the end of capitalism. infrastructure, climate change or colonizing Mars?

00:58:54.49 alexei sayle Well, I suppose climate change is the one, but I i reject the terms of the question really, but you're probably climate change, I suppose.

00:59:10.54 alexei sayle I mean, everything in a way could feed into climate change. You could have a, you could have a amazing, but bursting economy, which was also dedicated to eradicating the effects of climate change, you know, massive rejungulation plans for the center of Middlesbrough, be rejunglyfied.

00:59:28.52 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal That's true.

00:59:33.82 alexei sayle And that would use a lot of,

00:59:33.84 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Introduce Grizzly Bears into Macclesfield.

00:59:37.66 alexei sayle Yeah, exactly. Why not? Wolves in Wolverhampton. Why not? Rewilding. Yeah, definitely. so you could that's what you could yeah That would be my...

00:59:51.20 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Okay. Oh, fuck. I hate this question. oh I'm gonna pick one for you and skip it. All right, why do you think socialism is so misunderstood?

01:00:05.04 alexei sayle Because it's in the interest of so many powerful people to misrepresent it. If our corporate media told the truth about socialism even once a day, it would the the views of the public would be very different, I think. The fact that socialism survives, when when so many lies are told about it and us,

01:00:27.43 alexei sayle a testament to its real power, I think, since, it you know, it's ah we live in a world of 24-7 lives about who we are and what we do, really. so

01:00:38.89 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal There is an option that is exactly that. Very good.

01:00:41.27 alexei sayle So...

01:00:41.41 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Last question.

01:00:41.79 alexei sayle Mmm.

01:00:43.57 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal What is a reasonable tax rate on marginal incomes over $10 million? dollars

01:00:50.50 alexei sayle What is your reasonable income over $10 million?

01:00:55.08 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah.

01:00:56.24 alexei sayle I don't know, 90% I suppose.

01:00:58.66 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Ooh.

01:01:00.10 alexei sayle Does that mean, I don't know.

01:01:03.30 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Well, one, nobody should make that much, so 100% or 70%.

01:01:03.51 alexei sayle they pay nine well

01:01:07.98 alexei sayle That's true, yes. i think you probably did i think yeah I think in a way you have to stop. you know Because great wealth in our society brings great ah power. you know You see it with probably Elon Musk, you see it with the Israeli lobby, that the wealth is used to thwart the a see it with the military industrial complex constantly that they use that the wealth great wealth that they've accumulated is used to um but expand their wealth. and that's the problem That's why we are heading into a terrible darkness is because that you know those restrictions that did exist post-war and the post-war kind of compact to restrict the interests of the wealthy are being very rapidly

01:01:57.26 alexei sayle chiseled away. I saw Asif Kapadia has made a very interesting film called 2037 starring Samantha Morton, somebody i I've worked with, of course, ah who is wandering through this. She lives in like an abandoned shopping mall, I think, and it's a sort of internal monologue cut together with it drone surveillance and um facial recognition and all that. But the Asif Kapadia, you know, all that footage is, in fact, not stays. It was all real. And so, um but I saw him just being I caught a bit of him being interviewed on BBC News. I don't know whether it was the national or local, but this is kind of dopey kind of BBC interviewer, you know. And he said to me, you know, you asked me what we can do to stop this dystopia.

01:02:51.64 alexei sayle He said, we're all already in it. We're already in the middle of it. you know we're not We don't have the opportunity to enact some laws and stop it. It's happening right now. Obviously, the genocide in Gaza is the peak of it, but yeah the intrusions of the capitalist state on our lives.

01:03:15.97 alexei sayle The, you know, the meaning of Britain leads the world, for instance, in the jailing of climate activists and pro-Palestinian direct action.

01:03:24.96 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah.

01:03:25.09 alexei sayle Britain is three times more likely than anywhere else in the world to jail a climate activist or obviously anybody who protests against the Albert systems. You know, so we're living in a country which in a way is leading the charge in Yeah, they accuse socialists of wanting an interfering state, but we we live in a state that is interfering to an extraordinary degree in our lives, in telling us lies and in controlling our economy and controlling the arts and controlling how we can protest.

01:04:02.67 alexei sayle And, you know, we're in the middle of it really. We shouldn't pretend that we can, you know, the House of Lords can pass a bill and this will be all right. It's going to require much greater pushback, I think.

01:04:19.02 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Here, here.

01:04:20.35 alexei sayle that's my christmas That's my Merry Christmas message.

01:04:22.91 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Well, with that, we're at the end of the quiz. I can't believe the result.

01:04:30.20 alexei sayle How did I do?

01:04:37.27 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal yeah You

01:04:47.18 alexei sayle Yay.

01:04:49.22 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um

01:04:50.39 alexei sayle Yay.

01:04:50.96 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal You're more than a socialist. You are a communist.

01:04:53.86 alexei sayle I want the right time. So your quiz turned out to be in its own naive way, Perceptivious Asperger.

01:04:58.58 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal you

01:04:59.90 alexei sayle Well, that I mean, I reject those two communist. i don' shma meanist I guess.

01:05:04.81 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah, You're out to polish all private property.

01:05:06.33 alexei sayle But I don't know.

01:05:08.99 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Socialists just want to regulate it. You seek the withering of the state.

01:05:11.36 alexei sayle I don't want to abolish this quizzes.

01:05:14.09 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Socialists, this is bullshit, isn't it?

01:05:16.41 alexei sayle Chris is lying about me.

01:05:18.02 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal so You seek the withering of the state. Socialists believe in a representative democracy. You find Das Kapital thrilling. Socialists doze off reading the communist manifesto.

01:05:34.23 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal You're a separate group and you deserve recognition. And then there's a, I don't know, who's this a picture of?

01:05:37.98 alexei sayle no

01:05:42.97 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I wish I could show you. He looks a bit like, Julian Assange and he's holding a hammer and sickle like that ah with his arms crossed and he's holding in front of his face, hammer and sickle. He's got floppy brown hair and he's standing in front of a bullet shot wall.

01:06:04.26 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Does that ring any bells?

01:06:06.60 alexei sayle no

01:06:07.64 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal No. Anyway, that was thrilling, but yeah,

01:06:12.91 alexei sayle But I hope it's, I mean, communist, I don't know, it comes with a lot of, I don't know what I am, but I would, um you know, ah there's certainly, i I mean, I would certainly, there's a lot to argue with about what I saw as my parents kind of,

01:06:32.54 alexei sayle Marx is Leninist communism. I think that that is ah ultimately a dead end. But ah I would say, I would probably say if anything, I'm an anarchist, really.

01:06:46.59 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal You can't distill people's whole beliefs into a fucking quiz with multiple choice.

01:06:50.38 alexei sayle No, no. I'm not a free man. I'm a number. 73.

01:06:59.35 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal if the and What's that from?

01:07:03.97 alexei sayle Uh, the prisoner, Patrick McGoon.

01:07:06.16 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal not free

01:07:06.53 alexei sayle I'm not a number, I'm a free man. He was number six, I think. Didn't your generation know the prisoner? Well, that was a trippy, trippy part of the sixties.

01:07:16.78 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal known a few and well that quiz was from how stuff works and fuck you how stuff works um i'm trying to i'm reading the about us page to see if they're Mormons or something um fuck well i've got four more quizzes and i've got some crosswords here so i know we'll do a crossword

01:07:30.10 alexei sayle ah Yeah, no.

01:07:34.14 alexei sayle Oh, no. Oh, fucking eight crosswords.

01:07:41.06 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um But we're over an hour as well, but we could give him a bonus treat.

01:07:43.37 alexei sayle Yeah.

01:07:45.25 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I had a quiz about guns. I had a quiz about fascist regimes.

01:07:48.22 alexei sayle Well, why didn't we do we broadcast news, when are we talking about broadcast news?

01:07:59.40 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Well, so there's a spanner in the works now because Andrew Feinstein will be the first one out in the new year.

01:08:07.52 alexei sayle Yeah, we'll do it after that. There's no broadcast.

01:08:10.61 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal So it will be the second week in January.

01:08:13.24 alexei sayle We'll talk about broadcast news.

01:08:15.10 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal We'll talk about broadcast news in the second Saturday of January. That listen dear listener is how long you have to watch the film, send us your comments and questions.

01:08:25.10 alexei sayle somebody went and what yeah Somebody went and watched Solar Babies. um but I'm sorry, I never told you to do that.

01:08:28.96 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I saw that, yeah um on yeah. They were complaining, weren't they?

01:08:37.99 alexei sayle Yeah, well quite right, it's a terrible film, I don't know, I just, I was surprised that, you know, to become

01:08:39.38 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal and

01:08:43.20 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal uh email us at alexissellepodcast at gmail dot.com uh join the patreon patreon dot.com forward slash alexissellepodcast there's a community chats group there there's comments and stuff hey i've got a new year's resolution as well recently i've been recording the video of all our podcast recordings and andrew feinstein is recorded in lovely hd uh so

01:09:03.98 alexei sayle Yeah.

01:09:12.26 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal fine scene we're gonna put on YouTube as a video. ah But after that, I'm gonna say every episode where possible, there will be the video edition available on our Patreon.

01:09:27.06 alexei sayle right

01:09:27.12 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal We've had a nice uptick of Patreon members and they deserve a little sugar. So you get to see our ugly mugs while we sit and talk to each other with our big headphones on, our spare rooms, our

01:09:35.59 alexei sayle And the beds in our spare rooms. Yeah.

01:09:41.31 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal ah Wives and girlfriends walking around in the background ah the odd cat appearance He's been quiet today ah So yeah on patreon from next year.

01:09:47.65 alexei sayle He's been quiet today.

01:09:53.08 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal I'm gonna put The video recordings of our podcast up and you have to be a patreon member to view those Otherwise enjoy the podcast as you do spread the word

01:10:00.24 alexei sayle Okay. All right. Yeah.

01:10:04.56 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal A little shout out to anyone who's suffering this festive season, who's not were o whose not feeling well, who's lost loved ones, who has to work.

01:10:18.13 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal And if you're not working, be nice to people who are working. If anyone's serving you a fucking coffee, even if it's not Christmas, obviously, but especially now, you know, they don't want to be fucking working, but they need to pay their rent by the rest of us.

01:10:22.70 alexei sayle Always.

01:10:31.52 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um big shout out to you and all of my Syrian brothers and sisters and Palestinian brothers and sisters shout out to you as well.

01:10:39.09 alexei sayle I did. Yeah.

01:10:41.66 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal um

01:10:41.95 alexei sayle A warm one said to me, she said, my daughter worked at a celebrity event handing out nibbles and snacks. And she said, you were the only one. She said, you were the only one who was nice to her.

01:10:54.75 alexei sayle Because what she didn't know was I'm always nice to the people handing out nibbles and snacks because that way you get more nibbles and snacks. I also usually position myself by the door where they come and go. That's the tip.

01:11:07.22 alexei sayle If you're at a celebrity event where they're a slave in like little sliders and sushi.

01:11:08.52 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah.

01:11:13.93 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Be the one, the first one they pass when they come through the door.

01:11:15.94 alexei sayle Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get by that door. find Locate the door.

01:11:19.27 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Oh, it's you again.

01:11:19.60 alexei sayle but but also be you know It's enlightened self-interest, isn't it? you know it's um and I don't want to put political theory.

01:11:23.14 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Yeah, no such thing as charity. Yeah, yeah.

01:11:26.34 alexei sayle That is enlightened self-interest. I'm um'm nice. But that's because they have they have the stats infected.

01:11:32.05 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal It's just fucking evidence that if you're nice, better things happen to you. Like that is the most direct evidence of that.

01:11:36.41 alexei sayle Good things. Yeah.

01:11:40.32 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Have we finally got a will?

01:11:41.81 alexei sayle Yeah. What is it?

01:11:46.30 alexei sayle What you want?

01:11:48.98 Talaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalaltalal Is he wishing something to all our listeners?

01:11:49.02 alexei sayle All cats.

01:11:52.68 alexei sayle Yeah, let's pretend that.

01:11:56.69 alexei sayle Let's go to bed. Alright. Bye-bye. Merry Christmas, everybody. And the yeah, bye-bye.