Jean Blacklock (00:01.262) Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of Beyond the Bank, where we explore how wealth advisors can not only skillfully manage their clients' portfolios, but also play a pivotal role in guiding clients through the complexities of family dynamics and planning for the future. In this episode, we'll be speaking with Megan Tong, who started her career as a CPA. After a stint in Australia, Megan co-founded Canga, Toronto's first Australian-style meat pie company.

Together with her business partner, Erin Gould, she built CanGet, a million dollar company and successfully sold it in 2018. Following her entrepreneurial success, Megan turned to helping others achieve their financial goals and soon realized that the key to building wealth isn't about having the perfect budgeting app or financial tool. Instead, it's about transforming how people think about money. Now as a certified life and money mindset coach, Megan helps her clients change their thoughts about money.

their approach to making and investing money and critically, how her clients can use financial independence to achieve their goals. Welcome, Megan. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Megan Tong (01:08.213) Thank you for having me. It's so good to be here.

Jean Blacklock (01:11.086) Terrific. Well, let's jump right in. So, Megan, you're a CPA. You did your time at one of the large CPA firms to earn that coveted designation. How did that experience contribute to your perspective on money and financial literacy?

Megan Tong (01:28.341) The experience of being an accountant.

Jean Blacklock (01:30.317) Yes, that one.

Megan Tong (01:33.917) Yes. Well, how did that contribute? Well, you know, from a young age, I was always very interested in money. And that's why I chose the path of becoming a CPA. I think actually, now that I look back on it, I'm actually very surprised at how little really we even talk about even becoming a CPA, how little we talk about personal finance. So we would talk a lot about learn a lot about like corporate finance and

Jean Blacklock (01:43.937) Mm-hmm.

Megan Tong (02:03.755) how balance sheets and income statements work. But I think you'd actually be surprised at how savvy some CPAs are, but maybe how not savvy some other CPAs are. I think which alludes to what you were saying before that I realized that it's not just knowing how money works, which of course all CPAs do, I really believe.

Jean Blacklock (02:15.82) interesting.

Megan Tong (02:25.601) But it's then also being able to interact with it in a way that's constructive and that helps us meet our life goals. So just because you know a lot about money doesn't mean you're great with it, actually. Yeah.

Jean Blacklock (02:36.501) Right.

Well, that's the thing about money, isn't it? And for a lot of our listeners who are wealth advisors, investment counselors, it's, course, they know a lot about money, as do many of their clients, but money fuels and powers so many different aspects of our life that it's hard to really have a, for everyone to have a handle on all of those different aspects and all of those different reasons for having and appreciating and using money.

Megan Tong (03:04.765) Exactly.

Jean Blacklock (03:06.354) So Australia, what took you there? What did you learn in that experience? Tell us about starting Kanga.

Megan Tong (03:14.557) Yeah, Australia was an amazing experience. It was a secondment when I was at one of the large firms and I got to go work in Brisbane for three months. I was an accountant there. I ate a lot of meat pies. I never for a second thought that I would ever have a meat pie company. I was just eating the pies, just enjoying the pies like any old person in Australia or any person who, you know, is maybe not from there and is just like, wow.

look at these delicious pies, they're everywhere. I need to eat a pie a day. I don't know if I did that, but I ate a lot of pies, because they're so delicious. then I think maybe more than a year after or maybe a couple of years after my friends and I, Erin and Monica, we decided to just start a little side hustle, just a little project making meat pies.

Jean Blacklock (03:49.28) It was a goal.

Megan Tong (04:11.425) And then that turned into Kanga. One thing led to another and it turned into Kanga and that became my full-time thing for five or six years, I think. yeah, Australia was wonderful. I had a surfboard when I was there. It was so fun eating the pies and surfing and enjoying life. And you really never know where things will go because I could not imagine that a few years later I would have my own Australian-style meat pie shop.

Jean Blacklock (04:38.59) Yeah, isn't that interesting? So being an entrepreneur, how many years did you and Erin have Canca again?

Megan Tong (04:47.029) We had it for five or six years. I think it was five years. I think it was actually six years because we started as a side hustle and just off the side of our desks. And from the day that we sold our very first pie, it was one year until we decided to leave what we were doing at the time. So leave our corporate jobs. So that was a year doing it as...

Jean Blacklock (04:50.198) Yeah.

Megan Tong (05:12.51) off the side of our desk, just as a side hustle. And then from there, we grew it over five years as a full-time gig.

Jean Blacklock (05:19.638) Wow, and what a way to learn about making money and how challenging that can be. were some of the things that you learned as an entrepreneur?

Megan Tong (05:33.761) The things that I think I learned as an entrepreneur were just how resourceful entrepreneurs are and how resourceful I can be. just tapping into that thing that's like, whatever problem comes up, I'm going to solve it. And all the problems are going to come up, right? Whether they be...

Jean Blacklock (05:43.638) Mm-hmm.

Megan Tong (06:00.779) hiring the right people, training the right people, the basement is flooded, the window got broken, how do we expand, how do we get our costs down, how do we get more people in the door? There's just always so many different problems when you're an entrepreneur, like the problem of hiring and retaining and training good people is completely a different problem than attracting new customers and making sure that they have a good experience. I mean, those...

Of course, there's like parts where the two circles meet each other. But for the most part, they are different problems. The problem marketing and sales is different than the problem of hiring and retaining. then, know, not cutting your costs, but keeping on managing your costs so that you can turn a profit is a whole thing in and of itself. So there's just so many different things that you have to learn as an entrepreneur. And it's just having that mindset of

whatever comes up, can learn it and I can learn how to do marketing. I can learn how to train staff. I can learn how to open a new store and buy equipment, restaurant equipment. Gina was hilarious. we of course had no idea how to do anything. Right. So, I mean, we had two people working in corporate jobs and then all of a sudden we find ourselves at a restaurant auction trying to find

equipment for our very first build out. And we bought all of this equipment at auction because our friend in the industry told us you want to get all your equipment at auction. So we thought, yes, we need to go to auction and get all the cheapest equipment. I am not joking when I say that within the first eight months, every single piece of equipment broke.

Jean Blacklock (07:47.082) Yeah. yeah.

Megan Tong (07:49.761) So it's just like, these are the adventures. But it's tapping into that like, the oven broke. Okay, how are we going to deal with that and fix that because we need to get it up and running because our business is not running without that oven. And so I think it really showed me how to be resourceful, how to learn on the fly and have that confidence in myself that I can do that.

Jean Blacklock (08:14.012) Yeah. Well, and one of the things that being your own boss really shows you is that when they're, just to your point, when there isn't a boss you can go to and politely explain that, unfortunately today you weren't successful at finding kitchen equipment. When there is no boss that's going to listen to your story about how you were unsuccessful, you figure it out. So you go from being someone who there's always another level you can go to for help.

to someone who you know there's no other level to go to. Otherwise your meat pies will not be made that day. And I think it's irrevocably, I mean, as you know, you and I first met when we were both entrepreneurs, I think it changes you forever as to how you look at work and to our topic today, the acquisition of money when you do have a stint of being an entrepreneur.

Megan Tong (09:08.211) Yes, yes, it does change you fundamentally. And you just become so resilient. Because as you said, you need to just find and like you become so resilient, you tap into your creativity, which truly everybody has. But sometimes you're not pushed into a place where you actually have to go and get it and use it. But when you're an entrepreneur, you're like, all I have right now is my brain.

Jean Blacklock (09:16.743) Yeah

Jean Blacklock (09:37.107) Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the internet.

Megan Tong (09:37.139) and my ideas. And so I need to go into my brain and my ideas.

Jean Blacklock (09:42.173) Right, yeah, it's so true. So maybe then leading on to my next question, maybe it wasn't really surprising that after you sold Kanga, that you really have become an entrepreneur again in a different way, this time with coaching and life coaching. Tell us about how you did that, how you made the decision to become a life coach, not go back to...

accounting or even the more straightforward maybe financial planning. What was that like for you?

Megan Tong (10:17.279) Yeah. So after we sold Kanga, I sort of just wandered around a little bit. I experimented with, I had actually created financial freedom at that time. So I experimented with just doing whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted, and not really like having necessarily a business or a career. That wasn't really for me. I realized something that brings me a lot of joy is contributing.

through a business, like contributing to the world through a business and having an impact on people through a business. So, you I knew doing nothing wasn't really an option, but I did actually have a stint where I thought, you know what, I want to go work in a really fast paced kind of high powered team again and be surrounded by other professionals. so actually went to go work for a tech startup as the senior manager of business development doing partnerships.

And I did that for a number of months. And then I realized that, you know what, though the job was really interesting, the company was fantastic. Just a lack of flexibility wasn't, was not for me whatsoever. So I think my philosophy, my philosophy in life and trying to find what sparks your interest is just that you have to go and try different things. Cause people are like, well, how, how will I know if I like this?

Jean Blacklock (11:37.897) Mm-hmm.

Megan Tong (11:41.333) literally you'll have no idea if you like it until you go do it and be in that seat and interact with those kinds of clients and the challenges and the daily challenges of that particular role. I really believe you will never know if you enjoy being a writer until you sit down and try writing for two or three hours a day. It's very, very, very like you can't know until you just jump in the water and start swimming around and kicking around and see if it's something that lights you up or if it doesn't. So

Jean Blacklock (11:43.397) You'll never know.

Megan Tong (12:10.591) I went, I did that for four months. The lack of freedom wasn't for me. I left that company and then I thought to myself, okay, I want to start a new company. I want to start my own business. what do I love? I love money. love talking to people about money. I love making money. I love helping people with their money. And so then I thought, you know what? Financial planner, personal financial planner, because, know, being a CPA, kind of interacted with personal plant, like financial planning and personal planning.

And I thought, yeah, that's what I'm going to do. So I jumped in that with both feet. started doing para planning. So helping other planners with their clients and doing my CFP, which is a designation for financial planners and just engrossing myself in that world. And that's when I realized I don't like that either, or like that world was just something different than what I thought it was. suppose it was, was financial planning is very much a tax exercise. Sometimes I find.

Jean Blacklock (13:08.808) Yeah.

Megan Tong (13:09.311) or it can be, and that wasn't for me. But what happened was that while I was helping other planners, those planners had financial planning clients, but then they also had money coaching clients. So it was a bit adjacent, but I thought, my gosh, what's over there? What are those money coaching clients about? And that was very much about helping people to interact differently with money. So the financial planning client, right, is often just like a high, not just, but like it's a high...

net worth person who wants to ensure that there's enough money for the kids to buy houses, there's enough money when they pass away to pay for all the capital gains, things like that, right? It's not necessarily changing their behavior. It's just really just making that plan and making sure they're on it. And then the money coaching client is the person who is like, I make $300,000 a year and I have no idea where any of it goes. And I have $80,000 maybe of

credit card debt, I don't know how it came about, I don't really know what to do about it, that would be a money coaching client. And that is all about changing someone's interaction with money and helping them to form new habits around their life and around money that are going to help them achieve their long-term goals. And I found that to be so, so much more interesting. And so that's kind of how I fell into the coaching realm through that, through money coaching, which was adjacent to...

financial planning, and then I found life coaching and really realizing that it's, it's all mindset really. Right. And how I realized that it was all mindset was that I talked to maybe 12 of my wealthy friends and I asked them, so how do you manage money? I would just ask them, how, how do you do it? Do you have a spreadsheet? Do you have different bank accounts? Do you have like this account that funnels into that account falls into that account? It's all automated and.

so on and so forth, and do you use QuickBooks? Do you use this software and that software? And what was so interesting, is that every single person had a completely original way of doing their thing. Like some people had really complicated spreadsheets. Some people had no spreadsheet, but they had kind of like a bank account system. But the point is that everybody was doing something completely different. Some people used software like QuickBooks for their own personal finances.

Megan Tong (15:33.003) So everyone was doing something different, but then I started thinking, well, what's the common thread here if everybody's doing something completely different? And it's how they thought about money, how they interacted with it, the fact that they interacted with it at all, which is actually extraordinary. Most people, like I would say a lot of people, just don't really want to interact with their money. They don't spend a lot of time thinking about it. The wealthy people...

they did think about it a lot and they took actions. They were going to the gym every day, so to speak, not every day, but on a regular basis. They wouldn't just think about it like once every two years or something like that. It would be something that would be top of mind for them that they talk about with their spouse all the time that they're thinking about frequently.

Jean Blacklock (16:19.493) So just can we just look at that a little bit more closely. So these dozen or so people that when you describe as wealthy, they probably had financial freedom and all of that. Do you think their attitudes, when you say attitudes to money, do you mean the making of money and the investment of their money or the use of money to achieve their life goals? Like is sort of like all of the above when you talk about the fact that they turning their mind to it from time to time?

Megan Tong (16:49.289) Yes, it is absolutely all of the above, right? The three levers of sort of changing your financial situation are earning more money, optimizing your investments and having them make a good return, sort of safely without taking too much risk and managing your spending. And as far as I can tell, people who are wealthy or at least wealthy at a young age are

Jean Blacklock (17:03.941) Mm-hmm.

Megan Tong (17:18.081) playing all three levers. They are trying to optimize in all three of those areas and they are thinking about how to optimize all those three areas. And I think that's a really, really important point because some people think that you can just earn and earn and earn and earn and earn your way out of like any kind of spending problems or spending habits and personal finance and

exercising and maintaining a healthy weight. There's so many corollaries and analogies that work the same. It's like trying to out exercise your, what you're putting into your mouth. It's impossible. It's impossible to out exercise eating 10 cupcakes and three Big Macs. Right? Like you will never achieve your, your health. And say, if you have weight loss goals, you'll never achieve that by just going to the gym 10 hours a day. And so that's.

Jean Blacklock (17:54.169) The cheesecake you ate. Okay. Right, right.

Megan Tong (18:14.443) That's the same thing. Like if you're not pulling the lever of figuring out how to manage your money well, then you will never become wealthy no matter how much money you earn. And it was very interesting actually is that doctors are known to be, even though they have very strong earnings, they are actually known to be in a study that was done in a book called The Millionaire Next Door, which is an amazing book. They are under accumulators of wealth.

because they earn a lot of money, but they also spend a lot of money. So they actually accumulate less wealth than like lots of other professions and lots of other people.

Jean Blacklock (18:55.459) Right. This is so interesting. So what about generational differences? And from what you've said, this is what comes to mind for me. A family where some members of the family, say the older generation of the family, have sort of hit it out of the park on all three of those levers that you mentioned. And their children or grandchildren have different views on either the acquisition, the optimization, or the, what is the third one that you mentioned?

the use of it for living. What would you say about the role of a coach like yourself in a family like that where there are divergent views on, as you call them, the three levers?

Megan Tong (19:43.977) Yeah, but what I say if people have divergent views, do you mean how they can effectively manage their money, even though they might have all different thoughts or different perspectives on the three levers, or maybe some people don't even think they need to like manage any of the levers? Is that what you mean?

Jean Blacklock (20:02.659) Yeah, well, I think with ultra high net worth families and high net worth families, you know, the word family is sort of an umbrella term and we hear it and we think, everybody walks, talks, thinks and speaks alike in a quote family. But as we know, Gen Z thinks differently than Gen X, than the millennials, than the baby boomers. And I'm thinking that for families where there is a level of like,

know, disagreement or conflict even amongst the role of money, the meaning of the value of money, whether money should be spent on a lavish wedding or whether it should be spent on a house. I'm thinking that a coach like yourself could have a very strong role to play to helping individuals in a family sort those differences out or talk about those differences and

and see if there's not a way to make a plan that sort of includes everybody's interests.

Megan Tong (21:10.911) Yeah, I think there could be absolutely a place for a coach there. might be, I'm just thinking of like, you know, very, very high net worth people, perhaps like, you know, there's differences in how they view money between maybe the older generation and then the younger generations. And I think maybe where the coaching would come in, and perhaps would be like,

Not once everybody's an adult necessarily, but maybe over sort of the lifetime, because we're not just going to change somebody's mind, you know, say when they're 30 years old, if they've, you know, created a certain way of being around money. I mean, of course, we can change their mind if they want to have, if they want to change their mind, but like, nobody can make somebody change if the person

Jean Blacklock (21:44.324) Right.

Jean Blacklock (21:48.943) Exactly.

Megan Tong (22:09.076) doesn't see any need to change or has no desire to change.

Jean Blacklock (22:10.626) No, absolutely. It's something that I would envision as being, you know, more useful in the age 18, 19 into the early 20s, where a person has perhaps been raised in a family where there's been always lots of money and it just seems like money comes easily.

for individuals. remember when I was at the bank and we had a program called Financial Fluency because often people of those ages in families like that, they, and through no fault of their own, they don't really understand money and even a simple concept such as budgeting, setting goals for what you want to do with money, how you want to make your life one of meaning, which usually means doing something that you enjoy, a career that you find engaging, that kind of thing.

And what we found, and I'd be interested in your take on it, is that coaching and teaching like that is often not best done by the parents. At that stage, it's often best done by someone that's outside of the family that can say, here's a way where you could look at money and going through the three levers, as you've mentioned.

I think that could be a very helpful process for a lot of people in their early part of their adulthood.

Megan Tong (23:38.921) Yes, absolutely. Like getting that financial literacy and financial fluency is so important. I really, as the parent of two children, I think the worst person to teach children is their parents because we're just so much more prone to getting frustrated and other people are sensitive to, so to speak, our vibe. So when we become frustrated and

become agitated and tense, that translates to the other person and it makes them averse to these discussions. And I think that's just a very, very natural dynamic for parents and children. And some parents are very, very patient and they can overcome that. But for the most part, it is very, very difficult to teach your own children. So absolutely, think coaching can come in for the children in terms of

financial literacy, fluency, and money mindset. But I think actually coaching would probably be beneficial for the parents as well, because what the parents do and how they perhaps distribute money or give money to their children will impact how their children view money and how their children interact with money. So let's just say we, I,

Jean Blacklock (24:49.025) Mm-hmm.

Megan Tong (25:07.297) 19 year old who's ultra wealthy and always has money at her disposal and just knows that she can just charge anything onto her credit card. And I talk about having a conscious spending and savings plan. Well, that person is going to look at me like I have two heads because why would she need a conscious spending plan when she doesn't need to be conscientious with her spending because she is able and enabled to spend anything at any time. And so

I don't know why I made this a woman. can be a male too. And of course it happens with children of both sexes and both genders. in that case, would be more speaking to the parents and coaching with the parents, perhaps like, what do you want for your children? And what are things that are perhaps furthering those goals? And what might be hindering those goals? And let's just say some, I know many parents think to themselves like,

Jean Blacklock (25:40.873) Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Megan Tong (26:04.093) I want to give my children everything. And I think that's just a very natural thought. Maybe it's like even built into our like hardwired like limbic system. I'm not sure. Like I want to give my children everything. Right. And sometimes from that thought, many actions can come that can actually like, perhaps have a negative impact on their children in the long run. So I think sometimes it's also, it's, it's, it's a dynamic. It's not just one or the other one side or the other, the children or the

Jean Blacklock (26:22.367) Yeah.

Jean Blacklock (26:30.144) Mm-hmm.

Megan Tong (26:34.005) or the parents, it's the dynamic that exists between them. And for ultra high-neighbourhood people, think it's not an easy thing because they have a lot of money. so sometimes things that options that might not be open to other parents are open to them, right? Like a person who can afford to pay for everything for their kids, it doesn't just pay for everything for their kids. But now the person who has is a halt.

Jean Blacklock (26:54.899) Exactly.

Megan Tong (27:02.485) ultra high net worth person actually has to sit down and think about what are the impacts of that. Whereas somebody who doesn't have the money doesn't have to do that. They just don't do it because they don't have the money. So when you have a lot of money, it's sometimes it's really you have to be even more intentional with it and more thoughtful with it. But when you are intentional and very, thoughtful with it, I think you can create excellent outcomes that give your children the advantages that you want to give them in life.

Jean Blacklock (27:31.848) Yeah, what I'm thinking as you're talking about coaching a family as a group as opposed to individuals is that that's the unique thing I think of working with high net worth and ultra high net worth families is that the parents that have this wealth, although they have the opportunity to give their children in quotes everything from a material perspective,

By doing so, they also unfortunately have the ability to withhold life's meaning from their children, you know, in a way, if they make it such that their children come to the conclusion that really they don't even, you know, they don't even have to get out of bed in the day, in the morning. But that removes the opportunity in life that's important, the most important thing for all of us, and that is to have a purpose, right? They say that, you know, one of the things that all...

people that make it to 100 years old have in common, whether they're in Okinawa, Japan or like other, you know, octogenarian type places is a purpose, a reason to get up at you know, at the start of the day. And that I think is what a financial coach could help very wealthy people see that it's, sometimes it's in the withholding of wealth that they might help their children.

Megan Tong (28:58.729) Yes, absolutely. And for all of us, I think we can introspect and think to ourselves, like, if I never had to work, if I never had to work a day in my life, would I? Honestly, I'm a very self-motivated person. I don't know if I would. Like, if you took away, you know, my necessity to create my own life and, you know, furnish the lifestyle that I want to have for myself, would I do a lot of the hard things that I do?

I'm not sure because it takes something and it's not easy. And the human brain wants to relax. That's normal. It's a normal evolutionary thing that we want to relax and enjoy. And we don't want to necessarily do hard things. So sometimes when you take away that motivation to get out and do the hard things, you're asking somebody to completely self-motivate themselves. And 99.99 % of people...

Jean Blacklock (29:36.564) You right.

Megan Tong (29:56.713) I don't think can necessarily do that. I think myself included. If I never had to make a dollar in my life, I truly don't know if I would have done a lot of the hard things that I did.

Jean Blacklock (29:59.562) Great.

Jean Blacklock (30:07.262) Yeah, yes. And then you would have missed that wonderful feeling on Friday night or whenever the work weekends where you've worked really, really hard and you're really looking forward to the weekend or you're really looking forward to a great vacation. And for me anyway, the reason why that joy is there is because I've worked really hard. It's the balance that a meal, for example, tastes so great because you're really hungry. It's life.

is sort of the balance and I think that's an important thing for people that have a lot of wealth or maybe have always had a lot of wealth to understand that that meaning needs to come somehow. So in a coaching practice, I know yours is very busy and you have this focus on money mindset. Tell us about the format that you use. Every client relationship is of course unique and confidential.

Megan Tong (30:49.993) Absolutely.

Jean Blacklock (31:06.366) But what does a coaching relationship look like? What might people expect if they contact you in terms of structure, format, sessions, goal setting? Tell us all about it.

Megan Tong (31:20.063) Yeah, so I do one-on-one coaching. So we meet for an hour a week generally, and I work with clients for six months at a time. And it's very, the great thing about the one-on-one format is that it's very bespoke. Having said that, there are things that, you know, there's sort of a basic skeleton. Like as you said, we start with what do they want? What do they want in their life? What is exciting to them? What is fulfilling for them?

Where do they see themselves in 10 years if everything goes well, so on and so forth. So we will look into the future. What do you want? And then a very important part about especially money coaching is where are you right now? Where are you situated right now vis-a-vis your goals and what you say is important to you. So that is an exercise in numbers really. So that is one thing that we do. actually look at

where the person is and for a lot of clients that is a revelatory experience for them because maybe they've never actually had a way of looking at where am I right now? So we will do that, we'll look at their net worth, we'll also look at sort of their spending and savings. So what are they actually doing? And a lot of times people have no real idea, they just...

you know, money comes in and money comes out and then sometimes I do this with it and sometimes I do that with it. And it's a little bit more reactionary. And we take a very proactive and intentional look. So another thing that I do with clients, with money clients in particular, is we actually look at their real spending because a lot of times people think that they spend a lot on this and a little bit on that. then...

It has no relation to reality whatsoever. So they have this picture in their mind of what their spending is, and it does not correspond to reality. So I'm very, very interested in looking at reality. What are you actually doing? Not what do you think you're doing, but what are you actually doing? Because from there, that's where we can see what's happening and make changes that are constructive and helpful for you in your life. So we'll look at their

Jean Blacklock (33:31.216) What are some of the things that people get? I'm just curious, like what are some of the wrong assumptions that people make? Is it that they don't realize that Uber Eats actually is coming into their credit card bill? Or what are the things that people miss when they're thinking about it?

Megan Tong (33:36.385) Yeah.

Megan Tong (33:50.365) Yes, my gosh, I can't believe you said that because that is the biggest one. It's those bumpy expenditures like international travel. So people will say, I really don't live a lavish lifestyle, very, very, not pared back, but, you know, not lavish. I do this, I only eat out, you know, three or four times a week and I don't go shopping much and

Jean Blacklock (33:54.3) Ha

Megan Tong (34:20.041) you know, I don't I'm not a spender. They'll say things like that. And in their mind, these things are very true. OK, but what they don't realize is that they spent twelve thousand dollars going to Italy with their spouse or whatever, because that is not in there every day. So they or they don't realize that actually their car actually costs, you know, fifteen thousand dollars to maintain because maybe it's a luxury car or something like that. So.

They think that they don't spend very much because they're not maybe handing over their credit card on a daily basis. I don't know why, but it's these lumpy expenditures that people don't count, quote unquote, as funding. And I think international travel is the number one culprit. Is that people do not realize how much international travel costs, how much they're spending on it. And...

It doesn't figure into their quote unquote spending simply because it's not an everyday occurrence. So yeah, that is one. And also the shopping, people who don't shop on a regular basis, they'll often tell you, I don't spend anything on clothing or, you know, home decor or anything like that. But then once or twice a year, they'll go and spend $1,500 on buying clothes. And that's perfectly fine. That might be well within their budget or it might not be. I'm not sure. Like I'd have to look at like their actual spending and savings, but.

Jean Blacklock (35:18.808) Interesting.

Megan Tong (35:43.367) The point is that because it's not a frequent occurrence, they just completely forget about it and in their mind, they don't spend anything on clothing.

Jean Blacklock (35:53.007) Yeah, interesting. Again, it's all about mindset, as you said. We all play these tricks on ourselves.

Megan Tong (36:01.939) Absolutely. Yes. You can convince yourself of anything. And that's why I love just looking at the numbers because, and not just looking at the numbers for one month, but usually when we look at spending in those first few sessions, we'll look at spending over four or five months or as long as the data will allow because that really gives us an idea because usually inside of there, there'll be the travel, there'll be that like the expense on the car or like that one shopping spree that they took or so on and so forth. Right? If we just look at 30 days, maybe they actually didn't go.

you know, international travel those last 30 days. But if you look at four to five months usually, or even six months, usually get an actual idea of what is the person actually doing? Where are they actually spending their money? So yeah, that often is a great experience. And for some people, it's actually like, some people have the opposite. They think like, my God, I'm spending so much money and am I a crazy spender? And then we'll look at their spending and...

No, they're not. They're very conservative. So I think it's so important to look at the real numbers, which most people don't really do in their normal life.

Jean Blacklock (37:09.914) So what sounds like then in working with clients after you've really scoped it out and had a good sense of who they are, each client is unique in which of the three levers they might need your help with. Maybe it is spending, maybe it is frankly making more, getting a side hustle, asking for a pay raise, something, or better investments, thinking more strategically about how they can get a better rate of return and all of that.

Or maybe it's all three in some situations. But your point is, first of all, you have to figure out what they're doing.

Megan Tong (37:41.535) Yes, absolutely. Yes, exactly. Sorry, I didn't fully answer the question, which was like, what is the approach and what is the arc of the coaching? And so, yes, so we figure out what's happening in real life, in real terms, and then we go from there, as you said, then, you know, we diagnose the problems. Is it a problem of maybe not earning enough? Is it a problem of overspending? Is it a problem of just...

maybe you are making enough and it's just small tweaks to your spending that can allow you to begin investing and allow you to begin thinking to the future. And so, or is it maybe that you have some kind of overwhelm around investing? That's something I think comes up a lot where people just think, I just don't know how to invest. I don't know what that's all about. I'm nervous to invest in the wrong thing. I'm nervous to lose it all.

Should I just keep it all in cash? So on and so forth. So there's a lot of mindset stuff around beginning to invest. And so there might be some work around that. But yes, absolutely. Then we identify like which of one of the three levers do we need to focus on? And then we go from there. And usually we do hit on all three levers at one point or other in the six months. But yes, I will figure out which lever we need to hit first.

how much time we need to spend in that area. And then depending on how quickly the person can integrate what they've learned and create those changes in their life, we might be able to move on to another lever faster or slower. Everybody makes transformations and changes in their own time. And some changes are really fast for some people and others might take a longer time for them to sort of rewire the way they think and to start to...

begin to shift it and it's more like moving a ship that's going in one direction a little bit at a time versus just making a 90 degree shift. So it really depends on what is happening with the person. And that's why one-on-one coaching is so great sometimes because it just really meets the person exactly where they are.

Jean Blacklock (39:53.687) Yeah, exactly. I like the word you used earlier, bespoke. You figure out the person and you create the six month plan that will help them get to where they need to be. It'll be different for everyone.

Megan Tong (40:05.097) Exactly.

Jean Blacklock (40:06.59) So what are the aspects of your work, Megan, that you enjoy the most?

Megan Tong (40:11.721) The thing that I enjoy the most is seeing those light bulb changes for people or those light bulb moments where they just learn to relate to something differently and their life changes because of it. Sometimes it's like you can see the change in their life, like they're spending changes, but sometimes it's just how they feel. Like they're able to feel less overwhelmed about

Jean Blacklock (40:19.703) Hmm.

Megan Tong (40:40.775) money. So for example, I had a client who, she would come to the sessions and feel just, we did all this work and now it's all a mess again. And it's all disorganized. And like, I don't even know what, what I spent money on. like, I didn't move the money from here to there. And, and it's all disorganized again. And I'm confused and overwhelmed. And I just said to her, I just had.

thought, an analogy came to my mind. was like, you know, money, it's not like a painting where you do a painting and then you're finished and then you put it on your wall and then you admire it for the rest of your life. It's not like that. It's like a bed. Money is something that you're using every single day, right? You're using it to buy things, you're using it to invest in things, you're using it to donate and so on. You're making it as well.

Jean Blacklock (41:37.227) Yeah, yeah.

Megan Tong (41:38.771) And so just like your bed, you go sleep in it and every single day it becomes a mess again, because you've slept in it and you've used it. And then you go and you make your bed. I'm not a person who makes my bed every day, but some people are right. And you make your bed and it's not a big deal. It's just you, used your bed and you slept in it and you go make it again.

Jean Blacklock (41:43.672) Great.

Jean Blacklock (41:52.578) Yeah, that's normal.

Yeah, that's excellent. That's an excellent analogy. Yeah, I'm sure your client found that really helpful.

Megan Tong (42:02.749) Yes, and years later, she spoke to me again and she was like, I think about that all the time. I just think to myself, I just to make my bed again. I just have to make my bed again. yes, absolutely. It would be great if we could just like set it and forget it and yay, stare at my painting, how beautiful it is for the rest of my life and never have to work on it again. Wouldn't that be awesome? But it's not like that at all.

Jean Blacklock (42:11.447) Yeah.

Jean Blacklock (42:21.932) Sure, yeah. But that isn't the nature of money. No, not, you know, right to, mean, part of money, course, is estate planning, right? Succession planning. But until the day we die, like, it's still, you know, we can change our wills as long as we're mentally competent until the day we die. Like, it's always just, as you say, the unmade bed, or briefly, the made bed.

Megan Tong (42:48.017) Right, exactly. And then the bed is made and you know, it's great and it's beautiful and it's clean. then and then you go and you think something differently or something changes in your life. And then there is again, we've to make the bed. so I think, yeah, and and come back to your question when I'm able to help somebody have sort of an epiphany like that and to help them. Yes, just because you can imagine a person who's thinking that it should be like a painting.

Now they can relate to it like the bed, they just feel so much more peaceful doing the work that needs to be done instead of resistant.

Jean Blacklock (43:21.663) Yeah, yeah, I really, really like that. That's again, the mindset and making it not overwhelming. mean, because money is something, you know, all three levers can feel overwhelming. And going back again to the idea of family wealth, depending on one's own personality or where you fit in the family, it can be overwhelming. But it's, like you say, a peaceful thought to think this isn't something that's one and done. That's not the way

Megan Tong (43:35.264) Mm-hmm.

Jean Blacklock (43:50.069) money and wealth works. It's something that we work on, we consider what our values are, we consider how much we have today, how much we want to have tomorrow so we can take that African safari or whatever it is and just keep on living another day kind of thing.

Megan Tong (44:06.165) Exactly.

Jean Blacklock (44:07.797) So our time is coming to an end here, but a couple more questions. First is where can people that are listening get in touch with you, Megan? You have a website, I will put it in our show notes for sure, but what is your website? And anywhere else we can find you.

Megan Tong (44:20.233) Yeah. Thank you for asking. My website is www.coachmegantong.com. So Megan, M-E-G-A-N. And you can find me on Instagram at coachmegantong, T-O-N-G is my last name. That's where I post some of the pieces that I write and just sort of talk about my philosophy on money. And that's a good place to go and see what coaching together might be like.

and you can also reach me on email megan at coachmegantong.com

Jean Blacklock (44:56.471) That's really terrific. And is there anything at all that you're hoping we cover today in our conversation that we didn't get to?

Megan Tong (45:04.097) No, there really isn't anything. I'm so glad that we had this conversation. think something that I have been thinking about recently and I think about a lot in coaching. I also hire coaches. I am a coach. My also hire coaches is just how important it is. I would say for everyone to continue to learn throughout their life and to invest in themselves. You know, we get all all our lives we're learning and learning and going to school and then

going to university. And then after university, often it's just like, now it's finished and I've learned. you know, and then of course we have like continuing education at our work, but it's, think a lot of times we under invest in learning new things and growing. And I, that's an area of my life that I have in my conscious spending plan is personal development and coaching and growth for myself, because I just think that

There's, that's an area where people often underspend and an area that can have so much impact on your life. yeah, would just tell everyone, keep learning, keep investing in yourself and don't let that stop after university. So investing time and money, getting the coaching, getting the courses that are going to make your life better.

Jean Blacklock (46:07.841) Mm-hmm.

Megan Tong (46:29.181) overall I think is just money so well spent for so many people.

Jean Blacklock (46:29.473) Mm-hmm.

Jean Blacklock (46:33.747) Yeah, it really is true. mean, my work as a psychotherapist is exactly the same. It's an hour a week or every two weeks or every month when a client has an opportunity to really just take up the space for themselves and it's the same, your clients or it's the same someone that hires a personal trainer. I think we're all well aware that when we hire a personal trainer, it is for sure we work harder in the gym in that 60 minutes.

And we always think, no, no, we don't need to hire a trainer. having that expertise outside of ourselves and investing in ourselves, as you say, yeah, it's really a good idea.

Megan Tong (47:13.899) Yes, absolutely.

Jean Blacklock (47:15.635) So thank you so much for joining us and we look forward to having you on the podcast again. Bye, Megan.

Megan Tong (47:21.503) Amazing. Thanks for having me. This was a great time. Thanks, Jean.

Jean Blacklock (47:24.469) You're welcome. Bye.