Andrew Auerbach (00:02) Hi everyone. Welcome to another edition of Beyond the Bank. I have a very interesting guest with me today. I'm really pleased to welcome Fred Pinto to the podcast. Fred is the CEO of the world's largest CFA society, the CFA Society of Toronto. I'll tell you a little bit about Fred. Fred is the responsible for the overall strategic direction and management of the society.

core to the mandate is delivering outstanding member value, which he does, promoting high ethical standards in the industry and increasing the visibility of the charter with multiple key stakeholders. Fred sits on the board of the CFA Society Toronto. He brings over 25 years of leadership experience in both asset and wealth management.

and he sits on a number of other boards as well. I've known Fred for a number of years in my travels with the CFA Society and really delighted to welcome you to the podcast,

Fred Pinto (01:07) Thank you so much. Happy to be here, Andrew.

Andrew Auerbach (01:09) Great. Well, listen, why don't we start if you don't mind, a lot of people are always interested in career journeys and you certainly have had an interesting one. So why don't you kind of just walk us through ultimately how you've ended up as the CEO of this society, but a little bit of your background in the industry.

Fred Pinto (01:27) sure Andrew and I know we only have an hour here so I promise I won't take the full hour talking about my career journey. Well, I'd say it started off probably over 25 years ago when I joined a pension consulting firm named Russell Investments and at the time Russell Investments was strictly around pension consulting and so like many many individuals who started their careers in the early 1990s we really didn't know what we wanted to do when we grew up.

Andrew Auerbach (01:32) Well, it's your podcast. Do what you like.

Fred Pinto (01:58) And so I sort of fell into this industry and I started my CFA journey, believe it or not, at that time because I noticed that my boss had a CFA, my boss's boss had a CFA and the head of the Canadian business had a CFA. And so I started the CFA and I did a couple of years there and then thought, you know what, maybe I should look at other avenues. And I actually went and did an MBA at what is now the Richard Ivey School of Business.

Andrew Auerbach (02:07) Hmm.

Fred Pinto (02:23) and actually came back to Russell and started my second stint at Russell. This time it was in the investment area. And so I did that for a few years and I like to tell people that the last time I actually practiced investments was probably about 20 years ago. And then from there, I moved on into their business development, their sales, their product development areas.

and pretty well had done every single job except for the head of Canada at Russell when I left in 2011. And from there I went to a small organization that was based out of Vancouver. It was a discount brokerage called Q Trade Financial Group. And that was to me probably one of the riskiest decisions I made in my career. I left what was, and as you know, the cozy sort of confines of Bay Street.

and went to this small organization where I'd be going back and forth out to Vancouver every other week. I would say though, Andrew, the skills I learned there in terms of making decisions, leading people, building a business, really instrumental in sort of the latter stages of my career. So I did that for a few years. That organization combined with two other organizations.

to form a large wealth management organization called the Visa Wealth. I was head of a Visa Wealth's asset management division for almost four years and then left there and then was wondering sort of what do I want to do? I'm clearly towards the end of my career as opposed to the beginning of my career and had a few options in relation to sort of traditional sort of corporate roles and then there was this role.

And it's something that, believe it or not, I've always wanted to do. I didn't think it would come at this particular point in time in my career, but I said, you know what, I'm gonna take a step back, be in the industry, but almost stay sort of one step removed. And I'll tell you, since I joined in October of 2022, Andrew, this has been a phenomenal job.

It's still early days, but I could say and could see it being the best job of my career.

Andrew Auerbach (04:45) Wow. What a great run through. A couple of questions as you've kind of talked about a very interesting career path. The first one is that gutsy move to go across the country. I'm assuming at that point you had a family and maybe some of the motivations behind that. That's to your point, you hear of a lot of people coming towards Bay Street and you left Bay Street. And so I would love to get kind of what was underneath that.

Fred Pinto (05:15) Sure, so I actually went in large part because a former boss of mine at Russell had sort of went there and you know his sales line to me was, Fred, I can't pay you as much as you were making. You're going to be working more, but you'll learn a lot. And so I'm not sure that's the decision making calculus that some of the younger generation would look at today.

But I said to myself, and clearly you're right, I was married at the time and had two young children. And so this was definitely a decision that I sought counsel from my wife. And I said, so what do you think? And she said, look, you have a lot of runway left in your career. This is something a little different because you typically pursued, I would say, a traditional path. And so take a risk.

If it doesn't work out, you're still very well known in Toronto and on Bay Street and see what happens. And the motivating factor for me, Andrew, was, and I realized at the time, well, maybe not at the time, but a little later on, that I love working at small organizations. I'm a business builder. I'm a hands-on leader. I try, I try absolutely not to be a micromanager.

but I'm really a hands-on sort of leader and operator. And I realized that at the time after I had worked at Qtrade for a while, that I wanted to really build a business that was, well, it wasn't sort of at the ground up. When I joined, we had about 200 million in assets under management in their fund company. And when it merged with the other companies, we were north of 2 billion. it was really like,

Andrew Auerbach (07:02) Wow.

Fred Pinto (07:06) putting your own imprint and your own like just energy into the entity. that was something that I really took back. And it was a risk. I now will talk to people who are starting their career route or who are perhaps looking to take that next role in the middle stage of their career. And my counsel is, as in the investment industry, take calculated risks, right?

Sometimes it's always, but not always, but sometimes it's good to maybe step out of your comfort zone and see what happens as long as you have sort of a plan B or a plan C.

Andrew Auerbach (07:46) That's really great counsel. And I think that that knowledge and wisdom to be able to be reflective on, you know, where will you excel? You know, what are the things you like? You mentioned, you know, you're drawn to boutique firms where you have, you know, a far broader, you know, span of responsibilities given the nature of the firms you get to build, co-create those things and out of school, as you know, a lot of people have in their minds. Well, I want to be an investment banker.

And why do you want to be an investment banker? Because everybody wants to be an investment banker. And you haven't quite actually turned the mirror the other way around and say, what are my skills? What do I like to do? And where do I like to work? And the other thing I think about, Fred, as you describe that very gutsy move, is the importance of relationships and culture. Very clearly, your boss at Russell was somebody you respected and trusted enough to make a move like that.

Fred Pinto (08:46) sure for sure and you know it's as I'm sure you do Andrew you sort of look back and at the stage of our careers now we can kind of look back.

And I almost look back and I say, so what are the two or three times in my career that I had the most fun? And it was actually when we were building and growing things. I would say another one of those times was probably in the early, early 2000s at Russell where we were launching really new and innovative programs that were today very common. was, know, rap programs back in the day.

And those were really sort of the onset of those rap programs. you can actually, you really had fun with the people you were working with and you really trusted them. And I think that those are the two things that I believe are really important with who you're working with and who you're working for. Are you having fun together? Are you building and growing? Are you challenging each other?

I think some of the times we tend to be very polite, but are you challenging each other to have better outcomes? And then of course, that trust element. And once you have that trust element, I think that's huge.

Andrew Auerbach (10:06) Yeah, really, really well said. And to your point, having the benefit of now having these experiences, you you and I had a very similar kind of trajectory on the opportunity to reflect on, you know, what did you love? My favorite was actually in the early 2000s as well, where we were building the private bank, you know, and it didn't exist in Canada at BMO. And it was literally just frontier land. You know, we were

kind of making it up as we went. We were growing like crazy, figuring things out. And that was a big motivation to set up the firm, to set up Delisle. Gene and I loved that time and kind of have the opportunity to do it again. Very similar to what you're articulating as you landed at CFA. Before we jump into CFA, another area of interest is you doing the CFA program as an adult. Later in your career,

Your boss had the charter, his boss, I think you said, had the charter. I had a similar path. It's pretty tough doing it when you're actually sort of launched. I don't know if you had kids at the time. I did when I did mine. And it was really fascinating. Maybe talk a little bit about how that fit into your life.

Fred Pinto (11:22) And I would say that I did it probably a little earlier on, maybe a little earlier on than you did, and I wasn't married and had kids at the time. So I could dedicate the 300 plus hours a year or however long it takes to to pass one of the levels. But no question about it, it is challenging because what you're doing at the time and what a lot of...

Andrew Auerbach (11:28) Mmm.

Fred Pinto (11:48) folks regardless of where their stage in career is, is you've got demanding jobs. Whether you're at the earlier stage where you want to prove yourself and work those long hours and the finance and investment industry, there are long hours and I won't make any sort of excuses for that. And it was a little challenging and so whether it was a couple of hours a night from

830 to 1030 or from 9 to 11 or whether it was like dedicating, you know, big chunks of time on a weekend. I think that was helpful. One of the things that I'm, and I know we're going to transition to talk about CFA, one of the things that I encourage lots and lots of people to do today, particularly those that are in university, is start their journey early. Today you can start a CFA program

after having completed two years at the undergraduate level. had I known, had that existed, and had I known that, you know, 20 plus years ago, I probably would have started then. Because once you're in your first or second full-time job, and I can only imagine the complexity of having, you know, a family life, a partner, other types of responsibilities, there's not a lot of free time to commit to such a grueling designation.

Andrew Auerbach (13:16) Absolutely. And I think that is a perfect place to segue. Maybe you can give us a little bit of a description of, first of all, the CFA Institute, how it intersects with the CFA society. And then maybe a little bit about Toronto, which is a quite unique society relative to however number of societies there are across the planet.

Fred Pinto (13:38) For sure. So the CFA Institute, and I will say this is likely of interest to CFA nerds like myself, the investment professional and certainly the end customer consumer, when they see CFA, if they know what CFA is, they just see us as one large organization and they don't make those distinguishments or those differences between CFA Institute and CFA Society Toronto, et cetera.

So CFA Institute though, that is the global body that effectively administers the chartered financial analyst, the CFA designation. So they set all three levels, they confer the designation, they are a credentialing organization, and they're also a research and advocacy organization for investment and financial professionals or finance professionals globally.

There are upwards of 160 different societies affiliated with CFA Institute globally. The largest of which, Toronto is the largest and we're super fortunate to be in that position. But alongside us, you would have New York, you would have London, you would have Hong Kong and Singapore out in Asia. You would have...

Switzerland, that's another large country society along with Germany, and then the centers of Chicago and Boston in North America. And so each of the societies basically deliver services to members within their geographic territory. It really is a community that we are trying to build out. So if you think of CFA Institute as the large body there, which is

administering the exam and disseminating research and increasingly now looking at other types of offerings. So CFA Institute in the last couple of years has launched a series of learning programs and learning certificates. There's suite of learning certificates and they're trying to essentially diversify and I think very successfully to say that the CFA charter will always be our crown jewel, the centerpiece of what we offer.

But occasionally people will want to do other types of programs. They may not want to do a CFA or they may have done a CFA and want to specialize in private markets, in private wealth, in sustainability, in data science and other areas. And so they're branching out. The societies, we are the local hub for them. And so members come to us for our events, for our programming. I would say the number one people.

reason people come to engage with CFA society, Toronto and the other societies is networking. It's building up that core peer group that you have. Andrew, you and I both know the CFA is a lonely journey. You're studying by yourself. You're perhaps studying in a room, et cetera. And once you're done that, we welcome those individuals to be part of our community.

Andrew Auerbach (16:58) And I know a point that you've made a number of times in my conversations with you, Fred is your breadth of services, et cetera. You don't have to be a charter holder to participate in this society. Is that a fair comment?

Fred Pinto (17:16) That is a fair and accurate comment, actually. So we, as we think about sort of this next phase, and it's not just, you know, CFA Society Toronto, it's really all societies and also CFA Institute. As we think about this next phase in terms of increasing our influence and impact in the broader ecosystem and the broader finance and investment industry, we know we need to engage with

many more individuals. And those individuals could be long tenured professionals who work in investments and finance but who don't have a CFA. They could be individuals who are in adjacent industries, individuals who are with regulators or other government organizations. We are welcoming. We want to, and this is an

This is an interesting and yet I would say a subtle point. We want to transition from being perhaps an exclusive community of just CFA charter holders to a very inclusive community where we're saying, look, we are going to have, we're always going to have content and services for CFA charter holders. That is our DNA. We want to engage with other people who find our content, our thought leadership.

valuable, interesting. They may also be at the early stage of their careers where they're saying, look, I'm not so sure a CFA is for me. Let me come to the society or let me come to the association network and meet other people. And this may be my career path. So we certainly want to increase our influence and impact. And at the same time, we want to be a more inclusive community.

Andrew Auerbach (19:02) And how do you think about the breadth of technical expertise within the charter holder community? And so, you know, not just institutional versus private client, buy side versus sell side, but there's literally hundreds of different types of professions within the society. How do you think about program management, curriculum, networking that makes sense for individuals?

given the diversity of your stakeholders.

Fred Pinto (19:34) You know, it's a great question. And I would say, well, first of all, it's not easy because we have over 11,000, 11 and a half thousand members and we know we are not going to offer things for every single member. However, we know we're gonna be offering programming and events for segments of members or based on what members are telling us.

are the broad themes that are of interest to them. so foundationally, as you say, the CFA program offers an incredible body of knowledge of what I would say foundational material to have a career in investments and the financial services or finance industry. So we're not here to replicate that. We're not here to say, look, we're gonna give you everything that you got in level one, level two, or level three.

We're here to say, how can we add to that and how can we supplement that for those individuals who have largely finished off that journey and then they're looking to take their careers to the next stage, the next level, or they're looking to focus on certain interest areas that they know may be useful for their careers. So what does that mean in practice? Well, as you and I know, private wealth is an increasingly

and it has been an increasingly growing area for CFA charter holders for the last 10 or 15 years. And so our very successful private wealth, private client committee is coming up with topics and ideas on a whole variety of different areas, such as cyber security, client management, geopolitics could be one of those areas that.

that a private client portfolio manager needs to be aware of because their client might come in and say, look, there's lots of uncertainty or there's lots of risk out there, whether it's, you know, in the Middle East, whether it's elsewhere, how does that impact my portfolio? And a manager has to be relatively conversant in those topics. And so from our perspective, we wanna supplement the body of knowledge that is with the CFA curriculum.

We also want to equip our members with information that will allow them to be successful in their careers. I've touched on geopolitics, Andrew, sustainability, and I know sustainability today. You know, there's some mixed views on sustainability today. Our view is that, and the CFA's view, is that sustainability is a long, long-term secular trend, particularly if you look in Canada.

and I work with the energy transition. So we'll continue to offer best in class programming around sustainability. Last year we did a sustainability symposium and for the first time I believe we had a panel of very senior indigenous speakers and they were talking about how the investment and finance industry can engage with them.

on their terms to deliver value. And value isn't necessarily, you know, in terms of risk and return, it's in relation to how value is perceived within the Indigenous community. And it's not a homogeneous answer. And so those types of topics that are a little bit forward-looking, that are secular in nature, we'll continue to lean into those.

Andrew Auerbach (23:17) It's fantastic. you I had the opportunity to sit on the board for for a term. You actually interviewed me when I went on the board. And what struck me was how many great events programs are run that most of the members don't know about. And so the idea of actually getting on your website, looking at the calendar. And the other thing, Fred, I know your team is very open to

is the banks as an example, who I know have many, charter holders as important constituents, to be able to be proactive, pick up the phone or send you a note and say, hey, we're really working in this area. We'd love to see what you can do. I know you're always open to putting programs together that might be interesting for the membership. And the utilization, I think, is an interesting one. I know your board discusses it a lot. I know you think about it a lot, which is, is it fair to say probably

for most members, they're under utilizing the society.

Fred Pinto (24:19) I would say that's very fair, Andrew. And, you know, we've got initiatives underway to basically broaden that out. You we are actually at a very interesting time right now. We are at the start of our new three-year strategic plan. And the North Star, because I think it's, and you know this from your decades in leadership, it's very important, almost critical that you have

one North Star or one sort of alignment area so that everybody can say, yep, we're aligned around that. So our North Star is really quite simple. It's to enhance and expand our diverse community to promote an ethical, dynamic, and vibrant investment and financial services industry. And the two words to me that are,

really important, I mean there's all really important words including ethical, dynamic, and vibrant, but the two ones to me are to enhance, because that suggests that we want to enhance the products and services that we're offering our existing members, and then to expand, and that touches on that influence and impact role that we want to have in the community. But if you sort of go back to our members today, you're right.

The only way historically that you would know about us is you would have to make a proactive decision to go into our website and see our advance and do all of those things. Well, you know, I'm proud to say in the last couple of years or so, we've really increased our footprint with social media channels. We have north of 13,000 followers on LinkedIn. We are on Instagram.

My team is talking to me, believe it or not, about launching with TikTok and appealing to kind of that next generation of individuals and really promoting the things that we're doing. so one of the things that we've done recently is with our larger events. And to me, those larger events are experiential. If you have a great experience there, you're going to tell your friends and colleagues, I came to the annual investment dinner.

or I came to the pension conference or I came to the sustainability symposium and it was really, really good. I really enjoyed it. And so that word of mouth will spread to me and that's still the best way that we get our referrals. So people will take me out membership and coming to our events. But notwithstanding that we're really, I would say expanding our social media presence as part of our next three years strategic plan.

The third pillar is on operational excellence to be able to deliver products and services much more efficiently to our members. So we're in the midst of the early stages of working on a new website. And some of the things that would be in that website would be customized, personalized experience for the member, really trying to get at what they want as opposed to what we want to give them.

Andrew Auerbach (27:36) Well, I'm very excited to see your dance moves on TikTok. That's very exciting, I'll look for that. I'll be watching. It's terrific in terms of how you're thinking about the notion of staying relevant and current, you know, in such a fast changing and exciting time for our industry. It does take me to one question I have to ask you, which I get all the time. Why the heck are the pass rates so low for the CFA that

Fred Pinto (27:39) No.

Andrew Auerbach (28:05) You know, it was low when we did it, you know, many years ago, and they seem to be sort of on a steady decline, where perhaps it was a 50 % pass rate going to a 40 % pass rate or, you know, now potentially even dramatically worse. And if you think about to your point, needing to get through three levels, it is, it's daunting. And so just would love your perspectives on that and whether the society and the Institute are

comfortable with the pass rates where they are or just just your overall comment here.

Fred Pinto (28:39) So I would say, certainly when you and I did our CFAs or the various levels of the CFA, pass rates were generally speaking for the first two levels at least somewhere around the 40 % level, maybe a little bit more, maybe a little bit less, around 40 % or so. And I would say that sort of going into that pandemic, which seems like a long time ago now,

Andrew Auerbach (28:56) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Fred Pinto (29:08) They were generally speaking in that area. During the pandemic, you know, there were some issues with respect to an exam administration, markets where people perhaps weren't as well equipped to take the exam, and then also many, many more people who decided to actually do that exam or perhaps even defer an exam. if I register for a CFA today,

I could defer it for maybe one or two, two sort of exam writings and then do it later on. All of those factors contributed to lower pass rates. know, many more people, some administration challenges during the pandemic, exam deferrals. The most recent data I saw, we are trending back towards that 40 % level for pass rates. Now,

Andrew Auerbach (30:00) Okay.

Fred Pinto (30:04) early, early days, Andrew, it maybe is one or two sort of exam sessions. CFA one today, it's written four times a year. CFA level two, three times a year, and CFA level three, twice a year. And so that perhaps has also contributed to a little bit of the lower pass rates, but we're trending back towards that 40%. To me,

One of the challenges that we have, and you kind of touched on it, was relevance. And if I think about the next five years or the next 10 years, one of the things, you know, there's many things on my mind, but one of the things that is on the mind of myself and my fellow board directors is, is the CFA still gonna be relevant in the latter part of this decade and into the 2030s?

and how do we make that relevant? And I think there's a couple of reasons and a couple of ways of doing that. Number one is the CFA is foundational. It's foundational to those who are working in broadly speaking financial services and maybe a little bit narrower in the investment and finance industry. And we really have to get that message out. There are many careers, as you know, and you sort of touched on it earlier on.

whether it's investment banking, whether it's private equity, whether it's private markets in general, which seem to be attracting a lot of our best and brightest today, where quite frankly, we're seeing individuals say, do I really need a CFA? Do I really need a CFA to be successful in those careers? And from my perspective, the answer is yes, of course. And the answer is you're in private markets, private equity, investment banking today.

What happens if there is a fork in the road and you decide, hey, I wanna try something a little different. I wanna go from investment banking to maybe private wealth management, or I wanna go from private markets to an area or an organization that is supporting the investment management industry. I think having that transferability with the CFA designation.

will allow the individual to be successful. And that's the message quite frankly, Andrew, that we need to communicate to that next generation, because that's the one I worry about the most. You know, do I worry about people sort of in our cohort or maybe the cohort just after us? Not as much, because they're on the path to success or they've achieved success. Those that are starting out their career that...

Andrew Auerbach (32:46) Mm-hmm.

Fred Pinto (32:51) we really need to say, this is super important, it's vital, and it's gonna give you long-term career success.

Andrew Auerbach (32:58) I also think to build on that commentary, which makes so much sense is the, the rigor required to complete this program that, you know, when I was doing a lot of hiring, it says something when you see somebody who is a CFA charter holder, one of course that they've done a significant amount of study, you know, in our profession across broad, broad areas, but there's also a grit to completing the CFA, the CFA

is not like, if I'm a high IQ, person, I'm just going to be able to get through the CFA. Everybody has to put in the work in order to complete this exam because of the breadth of the, the material that is tested. You've got to really work hard. And I think it says something and you know, one area you tapped on, and I'd love your perspectives is having had my entire career always on the private wealth side. It's wonderful to see how.

the program is becoming a little bit more geared to specialization and certainly to cover the private wealth areas that are far more behavioral, more about practice management, relationship management, the evolution of planning and integration. And so maybe a little bit commentary on how the program has evolved to address private wealth.

Fred Pinto (34:24) Sure, and as you and I know, it has a special spot for myself because I sort of worked on the distribution and manufacturing side of private wealth for many, many years. And I would say, you know, it's...

The CFA Institute and our various stakeholders a few years ago recognized that we simply didn't want to become a public markets portfolio manager designation. And we realized that there were quite frankly a number of different industries, career paths, areas that we needed to sort of incorporate as part of that body of knowledge.

And so last year, it was likely, and it is, the most significant changes to the CFA program since the inception of the CFA. And the ones to me that stick out would be starting earlier. So you can start your CFA after completing two years of university. And I encourage all people I talk to, including my own son, who's in third year university.

to take that up and start your CFA. Number two, what we consider to be these practical modules. So the feedback that the CFA Institute and we were getting as well was people are showing up on the job, we're not sure if they're really desk ready, if they're really ready to perform on the job. And you've probably seen countless examples of that in your career. And so,

CFA body of knowledge incorporated relevant practical modules in Python in financial modeling just to make sure that people were actually desk ready. And the last one and you've touched on it is ensuring that people who are pursuing certain areas, private markets or private wealth could actually specialize in that. And so in level three,

There is the, and we'll just call it the traditional path, which we did when we did our CFA. And there's also two other pathways, one in private markets and one in private wealth. And my own personal view is that when you look at private wealth as an example, absolutely you need to understand the qualitative aspects of client portfolios.

and you need to understand a whole range of issues related to families and to what they're experiencing. At the same time, as a private wealth portfolio manager, you still also have to have that objectivity and that independence to be able to say, is this investment solution and is this portfolio best suited to my client? Is it gonna give them the objectives or the goals that they need in retirement?

or to buy a second house or something like that. And I think anchoring that in the technical knowledge of the CFA is critical. And so honestly, we see a tremendous growth trajectory in the private wealth space, particularly around those that are licensed portfolio managers, whether they are working at the large financial institutions, whether they've got their own shops.

whether they are licensed as investment council portfolio managers with the securities commissions. I there's a tremendous growth there for the CFA designation.

Andrew Auerbach (38:08) Yeah, that's all very exciting. And to your point, probably the most profound changes in the history of the program. I mean, that's, that's pretty, pretty incredible. How about the rule of data science and, and AI? I talked to many firms, Fred, where they, to your point, the regulators still have a very traditional approach to registration. Generally they want a CFA. They want hands-on portfolio management experience.

that's provable in terms of doing research, selecting securities, managing portfolios, those kinds of things. And yet the firms I talked to, they want people who come from very different tracks. They want data scientists, they want engineers, programmers in this rapidly changing environment. What is your view of how AI is going to intersect with our profession and our thinking about this evolution?

Fred Pinto (39:05) So that's a big question. I'll give you sort of my view, which is certainly not the definitive view on this topic, because I think we won't know the definitive view for a very long time. I think if you sort of step back a little bit and think about this whole...

Andrew Auerbach (39:07) Indeed.

Fred Pinto (39:24) transition to digital technology and and and you know I'm reading a book right now by Stephen Poloz and it is called The Next Age of Uncertainty and it's talking about the fourth industrial revolution and it's a fascinating fascinating read and even though I did my undergrad in economics it's it's certainly not a non sort of technical book it's a fascinating read and and I think

What is obvious from that book and from other sort of pieces I read and from talking to employers is we are going through this period for the next five, 10, 15 years where there is gonna be dislocation and there's gonna be changes in what people do and in their roles. And will we be immune to that in our industry? No. I mean, there's not going to be the need to have the same number

in my opinion, a buy side portfolio managers today that we need five years from now and 10 years from now. And so people have to be relevant. They have to incorporate AI and technology within their roles. Will they be fewer of those roles? Yes. Is it incumbent on people at all stages of their career to incorporate

continuous learning in terms of technology in their roles? Yes. As a matter of fact, today I was on, and everyone's on this at some point in time, ChatGBT +, because I needed to develop a framework on something. And I said, look, I kind of know three or four of those items. I'm not sure I know all of those items. So I'm going to go there and just use it as a productivity tool.

so that I can then apply my own way of thinking to this productivity enhancement. So that's the way that I think about technology, AI in our industry. Our industry is going to radically transform over the next five or 10 years, as will a lot of other industries. And those individuals who are incorporating technology within their roles, they are going to be the ones that advance.

individuals today who are starting their careers, having coding is a must. Being conversant with lots and lots of technology, that's a must. And as you progress in your career, being comfortable enough to adopt technology as a productivity enhancement or as a, in some cases, as a thought partner, if you will, to say, I'm thinking about this, what do you think, AI? And obviously you have the final say.

I think those are all super valuable to people.

Andrew Auerbach (42:15) Yeah, I'd also build that I think having access to a global society like the CFA where you're interacting with your counterparts at these major societies globally, I do feel as an industry, we talked about this earlier, Fred, before the podcast, we could be fairly insular in Canada because it's such a small industry. And I think this is a time when you need a far broader aperture. You know, our market has evolved.

very differently than the US than the UK. Those differences haven't really mattered before. And I imagine in a period that you're describing where change is really, you know, kind of much more center ice than it has been in the past, to be curious about these other markets, because chances are new entrants will come with new offerings, and likely they will come from other markets.

Fred Pinto (43:10) You know, it's very true and I'm excited because I'm going to a global CFA conference in a couple of weeks from now where there will be society leaders from all around the world. And I get the luxury of spending a few days before the conference starts with my peers from the large global financial centers of the UK, Australia, as I talked about Singapore, Hong Kong.

Chicago, New York, Boston and others. And you're right, we can learn from each other. while we have some of the same issues and concerns, occasionally we have different ways of actually solving those problems. And it's really insightful to me in terms of how certain large, large societies approach that. And so one of the huge, huge benefits of

of our society and also being a charter holder is that you have access to this global network of industry professionals who in some cases are thinking very differently about an issue than you are and will it be 100 % relevant? It may not be, but it might just give you some ideas to incorporate into your role.

Andrew Auerbach (44:23) Yeah, I think that's terrific. And another area where I know that to your point of enhancing, you're going to keep going. The time has flown by, Fred, as I expected it would. You have a very interesting role and some really terrific insights and perspectives. Are there any areas that we haven't covered before I move to my final question?

Fred Pinto (44:45) I think we've covered a lot of ground, Andrew, and you're right, the time has flown by. I would say, I'm looking forward to the last question. would say just before we get to that, I would just say, one of the things that I really wanna impress upon our audience is that we're an inclusive community. We want to welcome lots and lots of people.

Andrew Auerbach (44:51) Mm-hmm

Fred Pinto (45:12) Try us out, come to one of our events, come to a networking event, come to a morning coffee and just see what we're all about. And, you know, no strings attached and, you know, you may say, look, this is not for me or this is for me. But I want to definitely impart the view that as we transition to this next stage, we are very inclusive and, you know, we're super fortunate to be in Toronto, which is such a diverse community and we're so thrilled to welcome

CFA charter holders and other investment professionals from quite frankly all over the world into our community.

Andrew Auerbach (45:49) That's fantastic and that actually is a perfect segue which is, you mentioned I think some of your kids are at university age and so a few of them are around the kitchen table with some of their friends. What is some career advice that you offer them earlier in their careers?

Fred Pinto (46:10) That's a great question. And I actually had a similar situation like that because I had my son who is in third year. And at the end of the summer, he and his university roommates were actually literally around our kitchen and they had come over. And so my wife was making pasta, pasta bolognese. So all the guys over and had their pasta bolognese, which is connected by the way.

Andrew Auerbach (46:14) You

Hmm.

Fred Pinto (46:38) They were sitting there and they said, so what should we be looking at? And I said, look, you guys are at the cusp of a tremendous experience in your life. You're going into an amazing, amazing business program. Here are the things that you may want to consider when you come out of that business program. And I would say number one is be intellectually curious. Always stay at the forefront.

of where trends are, not just in your specific role, in your industry and beyond. Be intellectually curious. Number two is put your hand up for things. And it's some advice that someone gave me many, many years ago was, Fred, we don't know if you're interested if you don't put your hand up or if you don't say, yes, I wouldn't mind doing that project or I wouldn't mind doing that. And you may not have the skills to do that at that particular time.

but it'll be a growth and development opportunity. And I would say the last bit of advice sort of goes back to my taking a calculated risk is take calculated risks every so often. And it's not to suggest that you're gonna quote unquote bet the farm, but take a calculated risk because chances are it'll likely work out.

Andrew Auerbach (48:01) Just as I expected, great advice to close with Fred, you are a real gentleman. Thank you for sharing all of your insights. Congratulations on all the success in the CFA society. And I know that lots of great things are ahead. So thank you for joining us. Really appreciate it.

Fred Pinto (48:18) Thank you so much, Andrew. Really appreciate it as well.