Randy Strobl: Welcome to Alumni Live: The Podcast.

These are conversations with Grand Valley State University film and video

graduates about the industry, the film, video, major and alumni profiles.

Randy: Got a great conversation today with Kevin Kamaraad and Gwen Trautman about

their innovative multimedia children's educational programming, Wimee TV.

Kevin and Gwen, how's it going?

Kevin: Hey, doing just fine.

Gwen: It's going great.

Randy: Great.

Well, thank you for talking on Alumni Live.

You are both alumni of Grand Valley.

When did you graduate?

Gwen: So I graduated in April of 2022, so pretty recent graduate.

Kevin: I am the class of 1998, the old turn of the century.

Is that, is that a thing?

Do people say that?

I don't know.

Randy: Yeah, yeah, turn of the millennium, right?

It was, it was, yeah, we turned the whole thing over.

And I graduated in 2012, so we've got multiple years here.

Thanks for coming to talk to us.

You're talking about Wimee TV.

What is Wimee TV?

Kevin: So Wimee TV, there's a whole backstory.

So I'll first summarize what it is, and then we'll go back to the start.

It is interactive virtual, web based and on WGVU.

It's got different time slots that we've done over the years.

In essence, the goal, the passion, the focus is to create content

that inspires kids to create, to want them, to think of themselves

as producers instead of consumers.

And so we do it live there's structure to it, but it's lot

of improv, the spontaneity where kids can see and understand that

they're part of the process.

Those episodes then that are experienced live become edited

and that gets then put into.

the structure of the PBS public television model, where these episodes

can be viewed on a variety of PBS affiliates across the country.

And that's the quick one on one, Gwen, what do you add to that?

Gwen: Wimee is a ton of things.

Wimee TV specifically, but I think it is your best.

local television show for kids that you can watch in the Grand

Rapids area, the Michigan area.

It's super unique.

It's different than any other kids show that you've ever watched

because kids are actually helping create it as they watch it.

And it's not just one of those call and response things where the character says

something, and then the kids at home say something, they actually get to see

their answers on the television screen.

And then Wimee he talks back to them, and will reference them and their answers,

and kids can feel heard and see.

seen.

And it's unlike any other television that you've ever experienced.

So it's a really, really unique product.

Randy: So maybe I should have started with this question instead.

Who is Wimee?

Kevin: So Wimee is a lovable robot.

And, uh, let me, let me check if, Hey, Hey, Wimee.

No, that's Sibley.

Sibley, step away.

Wimee: Oh, hey friends!

What, what is going on, Sibley?

Kevin?

Oh wait, Randy?

Gwen!

Hi, Gwen!

Oh man, are you guys doing a, like a, a video, a podcast?

What are you doing?

Kevin: We are talking about the show, Wimee, and we were just talking about you.

Wimee: Ha ha ha!

Oh my goodness, well why don't I talk a little bit?

Kevin: Tell you what, Wimee, I just wanted you to say hi, so why don't you just

pause and we'll let you come back later.

So I am the puppeteer of, of Wimee.

I always joke there's a fine line between, creativity and multiple

personalities and craziness and goofiness.

And, and, uh, I keep telling myself, I got to stop saying that little because

it's, I don't know, but it's fun.

I guess my point with that, I guess, is.

it's a character.

a robot.

It's a puppet.

There's illustrations.

There's animations.

it's the face of the Wimedge app.

And we can circle back to that too, that that goes into the whole

story of how we got to this point.

But the idea is this robot as a puppet, I'll give you the visual.

It's about three and a half feet tall.

pinkish and orangish and greenish teals and buttons that light up and glow.

. It's it's got big eyes that when it first was created as a character.

It was built with model airplane wheels, a fruitcake can as a head, a

box for the body, stool legs for arms.

So it was built out of very physical, real things.

that can kind of help you craft in your mind what it looks like, right?

And basically then as a puppet, over the years, playing, developing the

character, the personality, the soul of Wimee is always to celebrate,

creativity, creative thinking, wordplay, there's a lot of joy, there's a lot of

laughter, there's a lot of spontaneity.

So that's my, my take, I guess, on Wimee.

Gwen, how does that connect to what you see in Wimee, or what did I miss?

Gwen: No, you hit the nail on the head.

Wimee is, he's like the combination of every character that you loved as a kid.

He's a little bit goofy, a little bit silly.

He loves to learn and explore and create.

he's just the perfect combination of, I think, everything that

a kid would want to watch.

I know I would have loved watching.

I do love watching Wimee now, but I know as a kid, I would have absolutely

been glued to the television screen.

Randy: It's so cool and I've, met Wimee actually.

so I've, been to one of WGVU's events before and, Wimee was performing there.

Kevin was, there.

There was a dance party thing.

So, What is incredible about Wimee, you just see the kids light up.

it's something where, Kevin's standing there too, but all the

eyes are just locked on Wimee.

So, how did that happen?

Like, how do you create something that kids love so much,

respond to, are learning from?

Where does Wimee come from?

Kevin: How would I answer that?

Did you know, I so far talked about kind of the visual description and

then demonstrated his voice, right.

And in some of the concepts, how did it get to that point?

you know, there's a technical answer of just kind of what led

to this particular character.

I think the first answer to your question though, is I should

say this, Michael Hyacinthe.

and I and Joe Emery together started that process of building

this, creating this character.

Michael and I sat down with, like I said, that fruitcake can, the model

airplane, Michael said, Hey, let's make a robot named Wimee, which

ties into the visual literacy app that he created, called Wimage.

And so as we were building these physical pieces, we then went to

my friend, Joe Emery, who's a puppet builder and said, how do we go further?

And that's kind of the technical thing.

But prior to all of that, I was an independent artist and

puppeteer for about 20 years.

so for me personally, when you, when you ask her or comment, the observation

of, you know, the kids and the magic and the energy, like anything, right,

the more You work at a craft at an art form, the stronger you get at it.

So I feel for me over the years of traveling with different puppets,

singing to kids in different ways.

And, what's interesting is over those 20 years, the first 10 years, when it came

to puppetry, I had a puppet named Jacob.

And the voice of the puppet though was recorded.

A friend of mine, Andy Holgrave is the voice of that puppet.

And so we recorded the songs.

In fact, that was the origin was it was poetry to songs.

And then it was, how do we bring these songs to life?

Oh, what if we do it through puppetry?

So the puppetry for me personally, as an artist, that was the entry point was.

How could we perform these songs and do different things?

and so for many years, I basically told the audience what to do, you

know, wave your arms left and right now, do this now do this, but it was

not a back and forth relationship.

So at some point, actually it was Art Prize of 2011.

Specifically, I was part of an exhibit, a piece where I started doing the

first puppet where I was the voice.

And I started to realize, Oh man, this vulnerability of

interacting with an audience.

is so much more fun and there's so much more flexibility and there's

so much more spontaneity that you can do, but it's also more vulnerable.

But I also never went the route of ventriloquism.

It was just, I'm just going to go for it.

And at the time I was in a puppet theater where you didn't see me.

But then when you did, you mentioned right here, I am with the puppet.

I don't try to be a ventriloquist because I personally don't feel for

what I'm trying to do that it's needed.

I think the art of ventriloquism is amazing, but I think a lot of

times people feel like they have to be a ventriloquist in order to work

with a puppet in a performance or in a classroom or any setting.

So I build upon that even saying to kids, yeah, they're puppets.

This is what I do.

Put your hand up in the air, bend your wrist, go la la la.

And when you are open about the creative process with kids, they

gravitate even that much more to want to do it themselves.

you're not trying to pull something over them.

It's, this is what I'm doing.

This is how you can do it.

And so all that long winded answer there also leads to now both the physical

shows in person, but what we do through the television show, like Gwen was

mentioning how we interact and kids see, wait, I just interacted with this puppet

through a camera now and through the technology that allows that to happen.

there's just such a synergy, such an energy and, I think I'd go back to just

saying it's practice, it's intuition, it's doing it over and over and over.

It's learning from others.

I've learned from a lot of puppeteers and a lot of musicians, children's musicians.

And, I'm rambling a long time here.

So I got to pause and just,

Randy: You're doing great, so Gwen, it sounds like Wimee was created, right?

So, we've got Kevin, Michael and Joe all, working on creating this

world, creating this character.

where do you come in?

Like, when did you start working with this project and, and how

do you help breathe life into it?

Gwen: So I had actually not heard of Wimee while I was, A student at

Grand Valley, which is crazy because Wimee is all over Grand Rapids.

I have no idea how I missed it.

It was probably one of those things where like I turned my head and

they unfurled the banner behind me.

Like it just felt like it had been there my whole life and I hadn't seen it.

And I was working at WGVU as a Production Assisstant and I'm always, always

vocal to everybody that someday I'm going to work in children's programming.

I want to work in children's educational television and

everyone was like, okay, great.

That's that's great.

Good for you.

but all of the people I worked with the WGVU listen to me, and

they were very receptive and.

my boss, Skye, he was talking to me one day, he was like, we're gonna go as a

group and we're gonna tour the studio with this local puppeteer, and I really

think you should come, because, I think you're absolutely gonna love it.

And I was like, oh, sure, so I went with them that day and we went down to the

Wimee studio slash store, which wasn't even officially open yet and went in

and Kevin was there with Wimee and he just introduced himself and talked for

probably like 20 30 minutes Just back and forth and I didn't say like a word.

I was just in awe I was immediately like a kid just entranced and I couldn't

believe how cool this was and how it was here in Grand Rapids and i'd never seen

it before So we went back to the studio And I told Sky, like, any time you guys

are working with him, I have to be there.

I have to be on set.

You have let me be a part of this.

And, he did.

And the first time that Kevin came in to.

record some stuff for the last season and the one that we're

currently doing of Wimee He was like you need to come in today.

Kevin is working in the studio and we need a camera person I was

like, absolutely and that was it.

I went in that day had the most fun i'd ever had working on a set and it was

just Kevin and me and one other PA and I had the most fun I've ever had and I

told Sky I need you to give me Kevin's email I feel like I have to ask him if

he needs any help if he needs somebody to create content for him And, sure

enough, Kevin responded, really quickly.

then I met Michael and from there, I basically just

asked, can I come work for you?

And they said, yes.

And that was last April.

And it's been an amazing whirlwind ever since.

Randy: That is put, I, the viewers, or the listeners can't see right now, but

I've got just this huge smile on my face, cause that is dreams coming true, right?

Like, that is incredible, and like, just to connect some dots here, right?

you are a student at Grand Valley, Kevin, you know, is an alumnus.

of Grand Valley.

You've both graduated.

WGVU is the, public media station, you know, PBS, NPR, housed on the campus

of Grand Valley State University.

putting out this show, creating it, it's alumni working together in this

public media station at Grand Valley.

how has Grand Valley played into your careers?

Like, creating this show, creating the artist that you are today?

Kevin: I'll summarize it for me that I went to Grand Valley from

94 to 98 was a student studying film and video production.

And as I was, there, I started exploring children's poetry, which then turned into

music and independently publishing books.

when I talk about that traveling world and circuit of schools and libraries

and performances with puppets, it was connected to books and songs.

I ironically kind of left the film and video world, so to speak, ironically

now has full circle came back to the video aspect, the multimedia aspect,

what I learned the root of being a student at Grand Valley was how do

I access technology, tools, video partnerships, collaborations, how

do you work with people to create?

. And I also did some corporate work.

I worked at GRTV for a while, videotaped weddings, et cetera.

but my experience of being a student there, in fact, very specific, teachers

to my English class, Cynthia Simpson, the English, 150, I think it was I remember.

realizing how much fun creative writing could be in a storymaking class from,

Margaret Proctor, was the professor of that class and Deanna Morse and

Suzanne Zack actually, who's connected to this whole experience here.

non linear digital editing was just coming out and it was like one of the first

times I think they offered, you know, at the time it was the decks, right?

And the, uh, AB insert one, two, or that might've been a Nintendo

code or something there too, but A, B, up, down, left, right.

But, Just the change in the technology.

Right.

But the creative process of creating, of doing, of partnering.

so that that's my quick answer.

And now to circle back, in fact, I remember taking, uh, media, was it media?

I forget the exact class, but Phil Lane was one of the guys connected to that

class in the fall of 94, spring of 95.

Well, guess who we're working with right now at WGVU of one of the people it's Phil

Lane, So how amazing is that connection?

And I'll also say real quick, right after I graduated, it was about six

months later, I've met my now wife, Stephanie, we've been married 22 years.

her degree is in special education from Grand Valley State University.

And it was a professor at Grand Valley who.

connected us.

That's how we met was a Grand Valley professor Liz Story so the School of

Education and over the years too I've been at a lot of the different things

that Grand Valley has done to celebrate literacy conferences different programs

and workshops that things have happened so lots of Grand Valley connection

Then yeah, so then like Gwen said, there we are in the studio one day.

And I want to say this real quick too, circling back when Gwen reached

out, I was so glad she did, and just been amazing with her, the balance of

what she can do technically, but also understanding the children's media focus

in the purpose of what we're doing.

but.

She challenges us to say, why don't we do this instead?

This could be better.

she has a great balance of technical and creative theatrical and singing

and her ukuleles coming out soon.

Workshops that she and my wife, Stephanie do with preschoolers

in Grand Rapids right now.

and yeah, I'm rambling again, but your Grand Valley, connection story

Gwen: Yeah.

I was Grand Valley from 2018 to 2022 and I also had Suzanne Zack as

a professor, which was wonderful.

I got to have her, 2 separate times and the final 1 was in Capstone and I felt

like my professors had all been really encouraging as me becoming a producer and

learning how to edit all of the skills.

But I feel like Suzanne was the 1st 1 who listened to me when I said, I want to

work in children's educational programming and she helped me to reach out and talk

with people who've created television shows before, or inspired me to reach

out to people and be brave and ask, to do, interviews and things like that.

And.

getting to hear from people who had done it, getting to hear from people

who were in the industry made me realize only even more that I wanted to.

And what it made me realize even more was that the only way I was going to be

able to do this was if I asked the right questions, if I asked the right people.

As long as I continue to be vocal about my, wants for my career, I

feel like someone will listen and someone will be able to help me.

And that's exactly what Sky did at, WGVU, I wanted to work at WGVU

because the long term goal for me, I'd, I'd love to work at PBS Kids,

someday, I think that would be amazing.

And I was like, well, the closest thing to that is PBS right here in Grand Rapids.

And I'm sure I can do some amazing things there.

And I did get to, and I got to work with amazing people and make the best

connections and grow my skill set.

so much more, even outside of Grand Valley.

And Skye did listen and he helped me to find Wimee.

And I was brave enough to ask the questions and.

take my shot and I'm so glad that I did.

And now it's all connected again and we're working really closely with WGVU.

And I love all the people who work there and just being in there and

just the idea that we get to film a show with them in collaboration.

it feels already full circle, like a tiny little circle.

I started there and just keep coming back around it's really a big

part of my life, which is amazing.

Randy: Yeah.

Yeah.

And I hear so much of my own experience in the stories that both of you have told.

I, also started working at WGVU as a student eventually

graduated, worked there, started my own company, things like that.

and I work for Detroit Public Television and it's like WGVU being a place

that Grand Valley students can even work at was such a, like a creative

incubator, the fact that it's part of the campus and a place that's open to

students, I can't explain enough, , what a great place that has been to work.

I just feel how much you both love this work.

what is it, can you put that into words?

I hear you talking about Wimee, I hear you talking about the effect

it's having on students, and, I can see it on your faces, but what is it

about this work that you love the most?

Kevin: For me.

all the above.

my brain is, wired to create, to make things, to express things, but not

only to express things, but to have a relationship with who it's intended for.

When I started with poetry and music and puppetry, when I finally realized the

shift my friend, Jim, actually, there's so many people that are part of this

show, and we've alluded to some of it.

so while I'm on that real quick, I just want to mention Michael

Hyacinthe, who started it all, right?

They got the ball rolling and then he and I and Stephanie.

we kind of went from doing things in person, to this virtual world.

And it was a result specifically of COVID is what launched it.

And now four years later, here we are.

but Jim Dagg, who also has a band called Scribble Monster out of the

Chicago area is a huge part of, this show.

And we can hopefully circle back to more about him, but in the context

of what I'm thinking right now is.

He's shared this analogy in the past with me that just struck such a chord

that as an artist, as you perform in person or interact with, whatever the

setting is, if you want to play a game and you want to play catch, right, you

got to throw it to the other person and they have to throw it back to you.

And so that's why it's fun is you're in this relationship of back and forth.

if you're just throwing these baseballs at kids or an audience or they're

no one's playing catch with you, they're just dodging from you, right?

Well, that's a very different experience.

And so I love that metaphor of just playing catch with a kid, with an

audience, with a family, with a huge group or a small group, or in this

case, a virtual show that, how big that interaction level is, depends on the

technology and the details of all that.

but for me, that's where I just love to live and breathe is that vulnerability

of that relationship and a lot of structure goes into that, right?

We have a very specific plan of what we're going to do, yet

there's so much improv built in.

Kind of the yes and concept of improv, right in the

musicality and the playfulness.

It's seeing the energy, the synergy, those moments where what is happening can

only happen because of the sum of all parts, the joy, the laughter, the fun.

to be able to combine puppetry with music, with collaboration, with wordplay,

, this just deeply resonates to be able to do this and have the opportunity to do it.

Gwen: I grew up.

I love learning.

I just love the act of learning.

I love learning new information about all kinds of subjects,

and I've always been that way.

I'm a big nerd.

I'll always admit it.

I just, I love documentaries.

I love watching behind the scenes stuff.

I just love knowing things.

And I think, you know, my parents helped foster that, and the school

district that I was in was wonderful, but I got it a lot from the television

shows that I watched growing up.

I watched a lot of PBS Kids growing up, and I just loved all of it.

And I especially loved the ones where there was puppets involved

or mixed media or other elements that really engaged me and kept me

interested and kept me wanting more.

And how did they do that?

How is that happening?

It's so cool.

And as I grew up, I didn't know, what I wanted to do.

Like most people, I jump back and forth between lots of things, but I always knew

that I loved learning and I wanted to work it into my career someday, somehow.

I knew I didn't really want to be a teacher, but I knew I wanted to

help foster that love of learning and education and others, especially kids.

I think that's my favorite part is that every day that I'm creating stuff

for Wimee or working on the show, I am hopefully helping some kid out there

realize that they love learning too, and that they want to keep learning

and they want to go off and become a doctor or a lawyer, or become a teacher

or a farmer or whatever brings them joy, whatever, lights them up inside.

Because what lights me up inside is giving that opportunity to others.

it's so sweet and exciting and no, I just love every single second of it.

Randy: That's so cool.

I'm so glad I got to hear that right now.

That's, that's awesome.

Randy Strobl: This episode is brought to you by the Chuck

Peterson Memorial Fellowship.

The fellowship was established by Chuck Peterson's family and friends to assist

the upper-level students in the film and video program at GVSU who were working

on creative projects that support the nonprofit sector in their community.

Kyle Macciome, the 2020 recipient, of that fellowship describes the

benefits of the support he received

Kyle Macciome: When going through this fellowship, there are three separate

parts of yourself that I think get to experience a lot of development.

The first is as a student, because this is a learning process.

You get to learn how to work with a client on your own independently,

out in the world, away from the classroom, like you would in

something like producing for clients.

And the second one would be as a video maker, as a video producer, as someone

who has respect for the work that they're doing and wants to improve on

themselves and produce a final product that can be used out in the real world.

And then the third one would be as a citizen.

You know, you're not making video for an entertainment value or for some

kind of commercial purpose, it's for a non-profit it's for a direct benefit in

your community and being a citizen of that community, understanding how you

can directly impact and improve it, um, is a really valuable experience that

I think the fellowship teaches you to be as, as a student, as a filmmaker

and as a citizen, all three of those things are directly a part of this

process that you get to learn and ask yourself, how do I want to be seen?

And how do I want to act as these three roles?

Randy Strobl: For more information and to donate to the scholarship, visit the link

in the description now back to the show

Randy: So we're talking a lot about education.

We're talking about, creating things.

But let's also talk about filmmaking, right?

So storytelling, let's talk about the format of the show.

How do you put together, a story?

How do you convey who this character is?

what are some of the nuts and bolts that a film student listening to

this might want to know more about?

Kevin: Yeah.

I think it'd be fun, Gwen, for us to give the structure of the show

and the technology and the format of how we do that and the process.

And I think you'll also notice, as we chat about this, that you'll see

it's pretty much bare bone concept.

And part of that is just a reflection of technology these days.

It's very different.

You don't need a full blown television studio, right?

but we'll get into the very specific of an episode.

but I think what got us to this point to make sense to, give a

little bit of that background.

So Michael, who started the app Wimage, which is meant to be 'Words

to Images' said, you know, let's create this character Wimee, right?

And so we were using the app, which is you input a word, you see an image, you

change the color, you can make it size bigger, smaller, you add layers, you

know, you can create a composition from word to word to word and design

and really cool concept of, let's visualize thoughts, and create something

with the, with this resources tool.

So we then started going into schools, doing workshops where we would use the

app, use the puppet, create a song, play with songs, different concepts.

it eventually led to creating the first book that created the groundwork to

the concept of what we were trying to do to inspire kids, to create things

visually, to play, to have fun, to create an environment that, kids are excited

about, So when COVID shut everything down, we were in the middle of doing

a whole district wide kind of thing.

PNC Grew up Great was funding it, et cetera.

And we, at first just put on the camera with Wimee, the robot, this puppet, right?

It was simply Facebook.

It was simply hit go live.

And here I am.

In fact, Wimee do you want to share?

Wimee: Wait, wait a minute.

Okay.

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I remember.

Yeah.

The camera was on and I was just like, Hey friends, what should we talk about?

Uh, and then people would post comments and then I would see them and then

we'd be like, Oh yeah, let's sing.

And we do these songs and we would just sing a song like down by

the bay, down by the bay, right?

And then they would say frog.

And I'd go like, Oh yes.

Do you ever see a frog?

Who started to jog?

Ha ha ha ha!

What's another animal?

And then we'd wait for the comment,

and I go, Oh, so and so, cause I could call them out and

say, well, that's, thank you.

Okay.

Did you ever see a whale?

Kevin: All right.

So again, these pattern based concepts, right?

Of songs and wordplay and interactivity.

And so now fast forward, right?

From just one camera and a puppet.

Sorry, Wimee.

I'm going to take over.

Okay.

Um, so, uh, we then from there said, okay, how do we improve this?

How do we go further?

This is where now we can get into a technical thing.

a friend of mine who performs under the name Uno Dos Tres Andres, he and

his wife, Christina are incredible musicians and they're absolutely amazing.

and we're fortunate to know them.

And when they saw this little live thing we were doing, it's like,

Oh, you got to use StreamYard.

So for those of you who know what Stream Yard is, you're gonna go, yes.

For those of you saying, what is Stream Yard?

Think of it as like, right now we're on Zoom, right?

Facilitating this broadcast.

there's teams, there's Google Meet, there's all these platforms, right?

Stream Yard is meant to be, not like all these cameras come on and everybody

controls their view and you and the mic.

Like, you gotta mute your microphone.

Come on.

Right?

That kinda scenario, it creates basically an online virtual television.

broadcast system it's a structure that allows, okay, different cameras.

We can put in video clips, we can put in music tracks, we can put in images.

basically now that platform, we started figuring out how do we start putting

this into segment to segment to segment and develop the little video, the pre

roll intro, the graphic, the overlay, in essence, start to build the show.

Gwen, why don't you kind of fast forward to what we're on now.

in the structure, you're the one behind the scenes running, Okay, this, do

this, and I just get to sit there with the puppet and make some records.

Gwen: Yeah, it's very similar for anyone who's ever been inside of a

television studio or maybe just seen one.

They have those giant switcher boards.

It's very much like that, but way more streamlined, a lot easier to

learn, and you don't accidentally hit the wrong button unknowingly and

broadcast something live to the air.

You know exactly what you're looking at with StreamYard, and so Kevin

will be back there with the puppet, and then I'm sitting five feet away.

From him, at the table with Stephanie and we're both running different parts of it.

My main job is to pull in the different segments and to record the show.

And then we use the Wimage board live during the show.

And so as Kevin creates this three sentence story with Wimee, I will

put it up on the screen and I'll animate it and it'll be super fun.

And we do all of that live.

what we're doing right now is, we have like this little tiny television studio

basically all inside of our computers that we're using in our studio downtown.

We then send that to WGVU, and they take that and they air that,

all over their broadcast radius.

Kevin: One thing I'll, add in real quick too, is there was a lot of

conversations and trust established before, I love how, you say that,

Gwen, like, Oh yeah, they just threw it up on the air and, uh, here we go.

and Phil, Phil's probably listening, he's like, No!

That's not, don't start saying, right?

But, but we did actually like three to four hundred episodes on Facebook the

way, and StreamYard kind of allows you to send the signal to different platforms.

We ultimately had to use Facebook and YouTube and different things because that

was the only option for the interactivity.

Well, what happened was, and this is a good time I think to mention,

a partnership with, Josh Freeny and the different organizations

and companies that he's part of.

Also, I want to mention, Kent District Library is a huge part of this.

\, there's so many people involved in this process.

I work for Kent District Library as a bookmobile operator and in the outreach.

And when we launched this during COVID the partnerships of how all these pieces

work together, as we were kind of just figuring out how do we serve our community

or the people that we're working with, interacting with, how do we do this and

how can that spread into other projects that we're doing, other resources and

videos projects and summer reading.

And we had a business expo thing we did for a while, right.

Kind of learning this process.

And as we were continuing to build we started saying to Phil

at WGVU, what could this look like?

And when Gwen mentioned the broadcast studio, so to speak, is in a computer,

when Mark, one of the engineers at WGVU was brought into the equation of, okay,

we want to explore how could we do this?

His first question was, well, where's your master output video signal, the cord,

like where HDMI, what are you sending?

Where's your master output?

And we said, well, there, there is none.

Like, well, what are you talking about?

you're doing this multi camera live production thing.

Like send me the master out.

We got to get it into this.

And he had like a conversion box that when they go out and do live,

like they have a truck, right.

That goes out and does live production and they send the

signal as the master output.

And I kept saying, well, there, there is no master output.

It's just this stream yard.

com slash one, two, seven, five.

Like it was like, well, that's not going to work.

And that's where Josh Trini and his resources and team, we figured

out there's a huge learning curve.

And Josh very specifically was the one to say, I think I know how this can work.

was this middle person to say.

Okay.

If we go from StreamYard to this third party thing, which involves servers,

which involves this, and then, which I guess kind of over my head, what he did

is why I'm just like servers and some computers and some enter some numbers.

And right.

But Mark and Josh were the ones that worked a long time to figure this out.

But then the reality was.

It's working.

And it involved also a box over at their end with WGVU and how it came in.

But then the other thing too, a big thing was there has to be live captioning

there's a lot of technical rules, right?

And it's good, but it's, okay, how do we do this?

And so once all this trial and error in figuring out how this could work and

trying some other things in addition to what we landed on, and so when we

first launched it last fall, everything was web based for like two and a half,

three years, and this was the first time saying, and by the way, I should

say those web based episodes would become edited, which would then be.

sent to WGVU different stations in Michigan and other parts of the

country, as well as then exploring larger distribution channels

of how digital content can get distributed to public television.

It was expanding through the PBS world, as recorded content still

based on live content, but recorded.

So the question of how do we go live opened up a huge can of worms.

And so when we first did it, we didn't announce it.

We didn't say anything because we didn't know if it was

going to just completely fail.

Cause we also had to figure out, okay, go into your live and you know, five,

four, three, two, one, you're live.

And then you're out.

Cause we never had a time limit of you have to be done at 26

minutes and 42 seconds, right?

Cause it goes to the next thing.

it was just a big learning curve.

And again, the, the synergy of all the people trying to do this.

And, and after the first episode, when we finished live, we all

kind of paused like, did it work?

And, and so then we continued doing the live ones and now we're returning,

to do the next, another set of live episodes and so we're going to continue

to expand it and learn from each other and, and learn where it's all going to go.

And you know, it, it takes a lot of energy and sponsorship

and funding and it's a big can of worms to how to really do this.

. Randy: Gwen, two main themes that I just heard Kevin talk about are, about

a lot of learning curves and I heard him talk a lot about collaboration.

So to me, some of the biggest lessons that I learned from Grand Valley were

just how to learn, how to be curious and how to work with other people

that might know some of those answers.

Can you talk to that like what were some scenarios and classes what were

some lessons that you brought that really helped you do what you do

and create this new format for TV.

Gwen: I think that's one of the things that the Grand Valley film program

does really, really well is putting you in lots of situations where you're

learning how to collaborate with all sorts of different people and

you're problem solving constantly.

And, they don't throw you in the deep end and say, here you go, but

a little bit, they're like, you need to go off and learn how to do this.

And we'll be there to help you if you need us.

But, a lot of classes, I think the first taste of that was, Media 2.

They kind of start letting you do projects on your own, but they, pair

you up with random people, and you're, like, I don't know if we're gonna

work together, and, then it just keeps getting bigger, and, through, the Doc

classes, and Fiction 1 and Fiction 2, you're creating, whole films,

sometimes, feature length, or shorts.

And you're doing things you've never done before.

you're trying to like, you're getting permissions for these things.

You're figuring out what kind of cameras, what kind of

lighting, and can I even do this?

Can I make this vision come to life?

Because everybody in the Grand Valley film program likes to dream big.

Like that's, that's one of the things we're best at.

And so we all dream big together.

And then we step back and we're like, Oh, how do we make that happen?

And you want to make it happen for each other because you've

spent all this time growing and collaborating and making friends and

making these film groups together.

And so you want to, realize those dreams and see them come to life.

And I see that in Wimee all the time.

we have lots of things that I've never even thought could be

possible that we're doing with television and with programming.

And.

we have big dreams, but it doesn't stop us from coming up with big solutions.

we're really endlessly creative.

And that's because of all of the amazing partners and the sponsors

and all of the really cool people that we get to work with.

But I definitely don't know if I would have the grit or the, the want

to keep solving those problems if I hadn't been put in very similar

situations when I was in college.

Randy: Yeah.

Kevin I was hearing you talk a little about pattern based learning.

How much does research play into what you're doing?

How much are you learning about how kids learn?

And learn how to research at Grand Valley?

how do you go about making sure?

Kevin: That's a perfect setup for talking about Stephanie.

My wife has her degree in special education from Grand Valley.

And so she is the backbone to the educational aspects combined with

KDL staff, librarians, Kalane Mish, is, is also part of the educational

aspect, Jim, who I mentioned as a fellow colleague and performer, and

he's part of the show on camera as well.

and his wife is, has a doctorate in education.

And so.

All of us just have a lot of experience in different ways that we bring to the table.

And when we don't know things, we look up curriculums.

We look up things with partners in Kent County, the Great Start

Collaborative, First Steps Kent, the Head Start of Kent County.

We're always interacting and engaging.

And I think Kent District Library in particular, and the librarians.

the sum of all the parts, but specifically Stephanie, for me is usually

my first go to, or she is the one who runs a lot of these things to begin with.

It's rooted in experience and knowledge and, we reach out to ask for help

when we are in over our head, one thing that I think that ties into

this is we kind of started to go here when it talks about the actual show.

when you talk about education, we start every show with what's

called a pattern based song.

so it's like Down by the Bay that I was singing earlier.

We've just established a structure that we know works and we have, the curriculum

connections to what we're doing and why.

Once it's been established, we then build upon those concepts.

We haven't finished this yet, but we're getting close to, having what we

call an Explore More with Wim ee page.

So the concept is that not only are you interacting with these pattern based

songs, the three sentence story that, Gwen alluded to earlier, we write a

story with a beginning, a middle, and end.

set the scene in the first sentence, there's a problem in the second,

and then a solution in the third.

So it's showing and expressing the story writing process, the arc,

which is very relevant to filmmaking when you talked about that aspect

and like, how do you, craft a story.

How do you write the script?

so we kind of boil it down to just beginning, middle and end.

And we do that every episode.

So hopefully kids experiencing that, not only see their ideas in the story,

if they're part of the, the three words that are chosen, they just have

it built into them, that concept.

And then we do things like the, alphabet game where we just think

of words that start with a certain letter, very standard concepts, but

done in a playful, quirky, fun way.

Randy: Gwen, as film people, right?

Like, we're a little bit techie.

can you kind of go through, like, what are some of, , the cameras you're using?

what does your studio look like, out there in, Wimee world?

Gwen: So, you know, you go into a television studio that they have

these big, amazing, giant cameras that are, like, hooked into the walls

and there's wires and everything.

actually use two very nice webcams.

those are our main cams that we use for our show, and we've

tried using other cameras before.

And what we've actually found is that we can't get that same really fun, loving

quality that we can with these very specific webcams that we have been using.

And so.

Then Kevin has a microphone that he like you'll see on some puppeteers.

He'll tape to his head and he'll wear a hat.

So it stays in place and it's a very nice, but it's a very tiny, tiny little

microphone, but it picks up great audio.

And his is really the only audio that we need because we get all the

rest of it from inside of StreamYard.

So we have a very basic setup, but what we're able to

accomplish with it is amazing.

And it's television quality.

It's shown on television all over the country.

And it's really funny to think that, you know, you go from the

studio with these giant big cameras down to these little tiny ones.

And I've worked with cameras of every size in between.

but these ones are helping deliver the kind of quality show that we want.

even though they're not maybe as high tech as some of

the other stuff we've used.

It's exactly what the show needs to be successful.

I had never worked with webcams a lot before this, but I've learned a lot as

we've learned how to adjust them and make them look the best that we possibly can.

Kevin: I think I'd piggyback on that real quick too.

You know, more light you flood on something, right?

Without overexposing it, obviously, but there's, just, light, light, light,

lights, you know, aimed on these puppets.

So the webcam, because of the lighting as well, piggybacking together.

And with it being one basic shot with the colorful background and desk, We

don't need super, super great cameras.

We, may expand more cameras or more shots or more angles.

And I think what I was gonna say also was just because the world

that we now live in, the concept of interactiveness and zoom and meetings

and stuff, There's just a different, aesthetic is also accepted in a way

it wasn't, you know, 10, 20 years ago.

like Gwen said, the cameras pull off what we need them to pull off.

But also I think what I'm referring to is just the structure of the show itself

being a live variety show concept.

It's just, different, I think subconsciously you understand what

we're doing requires the internet and live cameras going back and

forth and engaging in a way that is different from watching a studio

production we think of from the past.

Randy: I'm sitting here just so fascinated by all of this, You

are, creating the coolest things.

We're, we're kind of heading towards the end here, , let's jump into the

time machine real quick, and, , go back to, as you are now, right?

So right now you're you're successful, you're creating incredible media,

people across the state, across the country talking about how cool this is.

Going back, talking to yourself, you know, as a freshman in college, starting out

at Grand Valley, what advice do you have?

What encouragement do you have?

Like, what do you say to, young Gwen, to young Kevin?

Gwen: I think one of the big ones for me is I wouldn't get to be working with

the amazing people I work with now or creating the wonderful things that I

get to create if I hadn't been brave and asked if I could be a part of that team.

I could have just worked with that one environment or whenever he

came in and really enjoyed it and enjoyed that part of it, but I knew

there could be more if I tried.

And I would encourage any single person who thinks that they may have a shot

at something if only they just asked, if only they just took their shot.

Absolutely 100 percent do it.

Networking is huge and it's important and it's wonderful.

And because I was able to make those connections with WGVU and everybody,

I was introduced to Kevin, but there's an extra step after that.

Once you meet everybody, once you have all the numbers

and the names, you have to.

ask for what you want, you have to reach out to those people, those

connections that you've made and see what they can help you do.

and if you have made a good enough connection with them, hopefully they

can help you and and move on with your career and experience amazing things.

So I would just tell her to work hard.

and learn how to collaborate and try a little bit of everything.

And then once you're comfortable, even when you're uncomfortable,

ask for what you want and see what they're able to give you.

Kevin: I love how you said that, Gwen.

And you know, it was the perfect connection too, because we could

have been at a place where we just didn't have capacity, but it was

actually, tell us more about you.

We want to see what you do and what you offer.

I t's the combination of yes, seeking out and also knowing that you will get no's

along the way, but to not then give up and or to circle back or to follow up.

I think the persistence of following up.

And now, obviously too, as you started working with us and we keep saying

like, Oh, Gwen could do this and this, you're proving how much you're capable

of and you're, just making it so much better, with what we're doing.

Just don't give up, keep going, which yeah, connects to what Gwen said too.

Just put yourself out there.

But it doesn't mean it's it's easy and simple.

And everything's all rolling along smoothly.

one thing I want to answer your question, also I think this goes back

to surrounding yourself with people.

And the collaborative team, you know, Michael, when he started all this and

where it's at now is mind boggling.

and very much in the creative mode, much more than the business

entrepreneur logistics mode.

And so.

Michael pursues that and is pursuing the bigger things and the next

things, and as I'm, surrounded by Kent District Library and Josh and

people and Phil and the studio WGVU.

Collaboration is so key.

I was able to graduate from Grand Valley, for it, independently

try to make things work.

Lots of struggling, lots of challenges in life and all the pieces

right, but you just keep going and you keep knowing when to pivot.

It's to just not give up, to keep going, connect with people that add to what

you offer, that think differently than you do because, having the different

perspectives, the different skills, the different, characteristics that they bring

to the table just make things better.

Randy: Well, check this out.

So, so we're not live in the same way that Wimee's live, so I don't

have that on screen interaction like you do for your show.

But I do have an on screen chat here from Suzanne, who was your former professor.

And she says here, the thing about Kevin is that he was

different than other students.

He was creating outside the box, which takes courage,

and that he makes it happen.

He trusted himself.

I mean, it, it sounds like you were making projects back when you were

in school that were getting the green light from inside of you.

And it sounds like the projects you're doing now, you're still

giving yourself the green light.

And what is the value in that?

Where, where does that drive even come from?

Kevin: I think for me, the creative process combined with the, internal

desire to put yourself out there, whether it's applying for a

job or creating your own path.

It comes down to trusting your instinct, trusting who you are, trusting

what you're trying to do, knowing that it is incredibly hard and the

days are going to be fruitful that feel overwhelming and frustrating.

Randy: But there is something to that though, right?

who else could have made this show?

Who else could have created W imee it's not that you were trying to make

something else that was out there.

Like you weren't trying to make that chase scene you were making.

Kevin: I think if you trust your instincts and you think big and you

go for it and you surround yourself with diverse thinking, you know,

people that think similar and different to you and have different

personalities and skills and traits.

When you trust your instinct and you surround yourself by a variety of

people and you just keep going, you sometimes look back and go, huh,

wow, we're here, we're doing this.

And there's always going to be the, it could be so much bigger,

like you look and you think, oh, it could be a thousand times bigger.

But yet, This is where it's at and to be grateful, to be in the

moment, to keep it in perspective and just day by day, just keep going.

That's what I'm ultimately trying to do each day.

Randy: Question just came to my mind so, so, so much of the world

seems to be expanding outward.

The world seems to be getting smaller.

shows are becoming more national, more international.

And yet, local television, especially local public broadcasting, is something

that's still very strong let's talk a little bit about local versus big time.

Like what can you do locally?

Kevin: Yeah, you know, with what we're doing with the show, we very specifically

have been partnering with the John Ball Zoo, with the Grand Rapids Children's

Museum, , we have rotating segments on the show, and we have the very specific

segments, but one of the rotating ones is called Kid Chat, and we record it at

the Children's Museum, and so we want to continue that concept, and we want to

continue creating more concepts where, we very intentionally call out here in Grand

Rapids as a local show that is viewed on a larger scale, but we want people

here to know they can be part of it.

Like they have the opportunity, through the website, just reaching

out to us, people can find us and say, Hey, how could we be part of this?

You know, as we're creating the show, people will recognize things

from the Grand Rapids community.

They'll know they can go downtown in Grand Rapids here on Ottawa Avenue,

where this actual studio is the store, you can come and be part of it.

So we try to be where the local community can be part of it.

And we then can represent our community to the world, right?

Who's watching it and interacting.

And we want to continue to be able to do things in person, you know,

performances that are in person.

There's a mascot of Wimee, the puppet of Wimee, the workshops Gwen and Steph

go out into right now, and they're going into Grand Rapids Public Preschools,

doing things with the Wimee character, with technology, with the Wimage board.

So it is very much rooted and based here, and we plan to keep it that way.

And, know, as it expands to with different segments, we could do, you

know, who knows, like we're talking about everything where it's at

right now, but where is it going to be in six months in a year, right?

That's the thing we were kind of talking about.

Like, look, what is possible?

We don't know what's possible in a few months from now.

And, the whole AI world, right?

That is something also we're stepping into and, the whole new

partnership that's unfolding there.

And so we want to respond to what the community wants.

I think, right.

If, some organization reached out and said, Hey, could we do this?

We're going to do everything we can to say, let's explore it.

. Randy: What are you seeing?

Like, are you seeing that happen with local Grand Rapids kids?

Gwen: Yeah, we, like Kevin was talking about, will go out in the community and

do Kid Chats and things, and some of those kids have never heard of Wimee before, but

we had a couple who were really big Wimee fans, and they heard about this open call

to come and be a part of the show, and they came, and it was amazing, and we have

kids who come into the studio sometimes, we're like, Who they know who Wimee is.

They already have Wimee on their shirt.

They they're holding the, when you plush in their hand, it's part of

their lives, they read the books, they watch the show, they interact.

It's crazy to me, that, we're making something that when I was little, it's

like meeting Blues Clues, like if Blues Clues lived downtown from you.

That's what I imagine it feels like for some of these kids, it's crazy.

They're meeting something that is so influential in their lives.

I don't think sometimes we think h how big Wime e probably is in some of

these kid's lives in their world and how often they think about it and how

much they will think about it as they continue to grow up and the little

things that they'll pull from it.

And hopefully will use as they grow into the amazing people

that they're going to become.

I think it's really special.

And I think only local television can give you that kind of feeling

in that kind of experience.

That feels very homegrown, but also very expandable and relatable worldwide.

Randy: Hey, we got new season of Wimee coming out you said March 1st, right?

Get in the chat, ask Wimee some questions, participate, I recommend

any of the students listening to this.

To watch Wimee

Kevin: Thank you, Randy, this has been so much fun!

And Gwen, it's so fun to be working with you over this last year, and

how this whole adventure's going.

Randy: Well, you both and the whole team are just doing incredible work

and I am just so glad to have gone to the same university as both of you.

So thank you so much.

Kevin: That's very kind.

Thank you, Randy.

This was fun.

Let's do it again.

Gwen: Thank you, Randy.

Randy: Thank you for joining us for this episode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.

Subscribe to our podcast, to hear more from our alumni across the industry.

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Thank you for listening.