Camden Bernatz (00:00:02) - Welcome to brands and campaigns, the stories and people behind clever marketing moves powered by EKR. I'm your host, Camden Bernatz, creative director and head of brand strategy at EKR. Welcome back to Brands and Campaigns. Today is one of our reaction episodes. I've got Adam Castar, who is usually our producer, but is now on in front of the mic again to talk about this episode because, or not this episode, but to talk about this campaign, rather because Adam has some special, familiarity with the topic. We're talking about the fantasy football campaign we talked to Signan and Jake about last time. and Adam is a fantasy football enthusiast, fan, expert player. What do you call it? Adam I don't know if.
Adam Castar (00:00:48) - I would say expert is a little lofty. I do have a fantasy football podcast, like I talked about in the last episode that I was on, but enthusiast is probably the best or fan would probably be the best, way to describe that.
Camden Bernatz (00:01:03) - Their professional leagues for fantasy football.
Adam Castar (00:01:05) - Oh, for sure.
Adam Castar (00:01:06) - I mean, people.
Camden Bernatz (00:01:06) - That like, you know, big time money on it.
Adam Castar (00:01:09) - Yeah. So one of my friends, that I do the fantasy football podcast with, he is a member of. So there's this website called Fantasy Pros, and they have their own rankings of players, and it's based on a consensus of, I don't know how many experts who all work for different websites. And he's a member of the consensus. and he gets like paid to be on fantasy football podcasts. They have like a I guess they have a paid league or multiple paid leagues as well. And I can only imagine the level of competition there. because, yeah, that is kind of crazy because everybody takes it seriously. There's no like, oh, this guy never sets his line up or, you know, that sort of thing. Everybody is in it because it's their job That's fun.
Camden Bernatz (00:02:00) - So I can't remind me. Do we talk about last time we shared with the listeners about your the unique aspect of your league, the the guillotine League, you call it? We talk about that.
Camden Bernatz (00:02:10) - No. So you got you got to tell people what the guillotine league's all about. And I promise we're going to get into the campaign. But we got to get this out of the way first.
Adam Castar (00:02:18) - Yeah. So the guillotine league is fun. My friend that I do the podcast with, he's the commissioner of both leagues that I'm in currently. And the guillotine was started in 2022. It's not an original idea. I don't think it's an original idea from him. I feel like it's been done in other places, but basically how it works. So there are 18 teams in the league. Everybody drafts like normal. As we were talking about off air, the first year that we did the draft, it took like forever because of the time that because everybody took a while to do picks and it just got really boring because think about the math behind it all. 18 teams, you're waiting forever in between picks one and two. And like the later rounds of the draft, you're picking from like fourth string guys or third string guys, we're like, maybe this will be successful.
Adam Castar (00:03:11) - I don't know more of a lottery pick dart throw than in a normal league. But anyway, so in the guillotine league, everybody plays against each other. And you, you know, compare all the points of all the teams. And by the end of a certain week, the team with the lowest amount of points, their entire team is disbanded and they're all sent to what's called a waiver. Yeah. Chopped. Their team is all sent to what's called waivers, where their players are now free to be picked up by the other surviving teams in the league. So it's kind of cool because and there's another factor to it where there's a thing called fab, which is a free agent budget where you get a certain amount of money. And it's like an auction style where you can bid on those free agents. So there's like a whole nother level of competition with that. And so it's really it's a lot of fun. I think I have a lot of fun with it because I've done well both years that I've been in it.
Adam Castar (00:04:16) - But I think still, regardless, it's cool because there's a lot of, you know, tension there especially. You're like, man, I really don't want to be the first team out, because that would really that would really suck. And also there's tension where you're like, really? I think I survived one week by like 0.6 points because the bills didn't use James Cook on the final drive of the game against the Giants or something like that. I'm like, this is it's ridiculous, but it's awesome. And that's the kind of thing that is fun about fantasy is that there are all these different types of leagues. You know, you have your standard, like what we would call redraft leagues, where it's like each team starts to do and, you know, you just draft your teams and then after the season's over, you go again next year. There's keeper leagues where you can choose to keep. I think it's like 2 or 3 players, like roll over to the next year for the cost of wherever you drafted them.
Adam Castar (00:05:16) - so like if you draft it, let's say Patrick Mahomes in the first round or something in the third round, let's say, then you get to keep Patrick Mahomes for next year. But you don't get to make a third round pick in next year's draft. and then there's Dynasty Leagues, which are way more involved where each team drafts, their own team like a, like in a redraft format. But, next year, each team gets to keep the team that they drafted last year. And then you draft from the rookies that are coming into the league. So it's basically like you're an NFL GM. It's the most close to a GM experience of fantasy football. And I feel like a lot of that's where you see a lot of like that camaraderie where you're you're interacting with the same people and you're you're there a lot more trades as well. It's a whole different way of thinking. But anyway, I could go and talk about this forever. But we have.
Camden Bernatz (00:06:12) - When you do and you have a podcast dedicated to it, right? Yeah.
Camden Bernatz (00:06:15) - What's the name of your podcast?
Adam Castar (00:06:17) - It is the Basement Talk podcast, fantasy show.
Camden Bernatz (00:06:19) - Basement talk podcast, fantasy show. Okay, so then there's the league. That is just the guys who just want to have a reason to watch the games closer and have no idea what they're doing. And although that's the one I've been a part of, what 90% of what you said went a little bit over my head.
Adam Castar (00:06:35) - That's fair.
Camden Bernatz (00:06:36) - That's but that's kind of the message that that that, Shannon and Jake are talking about. They, they one of the challenges people feel like it's oh, it's too complex for me. And it can be if you want it to be complex, it doesn't have to be. But instead of leaning into the aspect of the house and the technical aspects of the different ways to use fantasy football aren't used, but to participate. They really focused in on just the cultural aspect, the social aspect within their the campaign, you know, for the football is fantasy and that football and the fantasy can be whatever you want it to be, as complex as you want it to be, as high stakes.
Camden Bernatz (00:07:11) - You put money on the line, whatever you want to do. But then, no, the friendships are real. The memories are real, the traditions are real, the punishments are real. The the, you know, different things like that. So as someone who clearly you're very involved more in the doing it right, I, I shouldn't say right. That's, that's doing it. getting into the details, I guess you would say.
Adam Castar (00:07:32) - I'm more intense about it.
Camden Bernatz (00:07:34) - Intense. That's a.
Adam Castar (00:07:34) - Better word. Being real.
Camden Bernatz (00:07:35) - There you go.
Adam Castar (00:07:36) - Second.
Camden Bernatz (00:07:37) - Did did the social aspect of it, knowing that, of course it's only a few different spots. You can't show every possible, you know, scenario. Did it ring true to you. Did it feel like they. That's to me, it stood out. As someone who's not super into fantasy football, it seemed like they understood their audience and it was speaking their language. But as you being more in that audience, did that ring true for you?
Adam Castar (00:07:59) - Yeah, I think so.
Adam Castar (00:08:00) - I think it was really cool that, there was one, I don't know, I think it was from this year, but there was one because they said that they did this for five years. Right. And it was really it's really cool. There was one where they were talking about punishments, and it was like these two women were in an elevator and there were, and they just addressed each other by their team names. team nicknames are really fun. I'll go into a quick story, because everybody has a story kind of like this of their first year in fantasy football where they don't know anything and they draft like something totally out of the box. My friend I host the podcast with he in his first year of fantasy football. He drafted, Tony Romo first overall. So for those who play fantasy, know that that's kind of not the the best pick there. But because really you would be Usually you're going with like a running back or a receiver in the first round. But he's also a Cowboys fan.
Adam Castar (00:08:58) - So he's like, oh, I'm going to pick Tony Romo first. Overall, my first year of playing fantasy football, was at summer camp, and I picked Aaron Rodgers fourth overall because I wanted to make my team name Mister Rogers Neighborhood. And I was like, I want to make my nickname. This. It doesn't make any sense to put it off the player. So that's what I did. but that was really a cool aspect of it. I think like the in person draft, I haven't done one of those in a while, like maybe since that one league in summer camp, but like, that's so it's so cool. Like the camaraderie of it really is really cool. And, you know, getting everybody in the same room. I'm a little like, jealous of my friends that do have those, like in person drafts.
Camden Bernatz (00:09:50) - So having watched the spots we talked about and seeing some of the extensions that have, I mean, as, as of this recording, like they're running, they're they're out there right now.
Camden Bernatz (00:09:59) - You can go check out. Do you think that the value of this creative the these ads are I think it I think it serves both purposes. But do you think it does more to reenergize and, and reignite that, that brand passion or loyalty for current fantasy football enthusiasts or to bring in people who maybe haven't been part of it, like, oh, I missing out on something. I want to be part of that kind of thing and bring people into it, either again or for the first time.
Adam Castar (00:10:31) - That's a good point or a good question. I was actually thinking about that a little bit as you were asking the question where I was like, I feel like my reaction to it was like, oh, this is so like relatable a little bit where like, oh, I can totally relate to this. Although I've never been in a league with less space punishments, I know I I've heard some stories about on Reddit about some crazy ones. I don't know if I can necessarily see it from like a new person's perspective, because I'm just so deeply ingrained into the culture of it.
Adam Castar (00:11:03) - But, yeah, like.
Camden Bernatz (00:11:07) - I said, I think it can kind of do both. And the last thing it has to be one or the other, because depending what lens you're seeing it through, accomplishes one of two things. If you're already fully in it like you are, it's just like it's like it's like when Christmas ads start popping up, like it's, oh yeah, it's time of year. It just it's just excitement for something you already love. Right? Whereas because they focused on like the social aspect and we're talking about like the different kind of leagues and how to get your draft order right. And like all the technical stuff, it was just about the social aspect, the tradition that can be present with any kind of group or league. Then that appeals to the people who have not done it, where it's like, I don't necessarily care about the winning or losing, or I might have my, you know exactly how my league is run. It's. Oh, I want to have a reason to get together with friends or.
Camden Bernatz (00:11:54) - Oh, I want to have a fun little way of picking draft order. I want it like, that's just a fun tradition. So I think it by not focusing on kind of the technical aspects of it or the super like highly competitive and making it seem too intense, I think it could kind of scratch the itch for both people, whether you are intense about it or not. I think it was a good ad, obviously it's what we had them on, but that's kind of my two cents on that is I've heard I'm sorry, I can't remember where I heard this from. So I, I would, I would attribute the quote if I remember where it came from. But I've heard the line before, you sell to the swing group through the eyes of the love group, meaning every brand has like a love group that's super passionate about it. And you might have some. That's like a hate group that just really does not like your brand. And there's no point in trying to sell to the hate group because there's they hate you.
Camden Bernatz (00:12:45) - It's a waste of time and effort to change that. But then in between, there's a swing group where they don't really they're kind of neutral, or they maybe sometimes don't like you or they do like you. And so you sell to the swing group through the eyes of the love group, those who love you. Why is that? What does that mean? What is that brand affection? Where does that come from? Convey that to the swing group. So they want some of that. And so this is a very good example of that. I feel like where the love groups were, were literally the subject of the ad, like showing, showing examples of real groups and what they go through, what they do and the fun experience and memories. And so that if you were in the swing group where you're like, I don't hate fantasy football, doesn't sound terrible to me. I just never really considered it or haven't had time. It's like, oh yeah, okay, I get that. I kind of want some of that value now.
Adam Castar (00:13:33) - Well, I think. Part of it is kind of like anecdotally I can experience or I've experienced people being like, well, it's just kind of intimidating a little bit. Like I can actually relate this to a, an agency or agency So we do a march madness bracket every year. Everybody loves that. You know, everybody is like, always eager to participate because, you know, you don't need to know anything about college basketball. You just pick like whatever. You can pick BYU to win the national championship for all. Whatever.
Camden Bernatz (00:14:03) - Hey, don't knock BYU. They have a chance.
Adam Castar (00:14:05) - I'm just listen, I, my my alma mater hasn't made the tournament in like 20 years. So 23 the one the last time they made it, it was canceled because of Covid. So I don't know. Yeah, but it's.
Camden Bernatz (00:14:18) - A reason to be invested in something that you might not otherwise care that much about. But you're not. You're like, oh yeah, I hope my team that day, you're a super fan of Iona State or something like that that you never thought of because that's who you picked for that game.
Camden Bernatz (00:14:30) - Like.
Adam Castar (00:14:30) - Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, also in 2022, we had a fantasy football league in the office, like an office sponsored, fantasy league. It wasn't as successful. we did the the whole auto draft, thing. So everybody just got, like a sign teams. But I just. Yeah, I don't really feel like a lot of people were not as many people were as interested in it, because there's a lot more maintenance involved. Also. Yeah. compared to March Madness, where it's just like, oh, you set your bracket and then, you know, you let fate do the work.
Camden Bernatz (00:15:01) - Yeah. That's true. I have a question now. So this is the second time you've been on as one of our guests on the podcast and not just helping produce it, as you've listened to a lot of these different episodes, both in live, when they were, when the conversations were happening and then editing them after the fact. Forget this campaign specifically for men, and just look at the the overarching conversations we've had at the the theme of this show, the conversation we've had.
Camden Bernatz (00:15:27) - Is there any like, takeaways or overarching lessons or anything? It's I guess the better question is what has been what is stood out to you or what's been most interesting from some of these conversations, or the nature of the conversations we've been having with these people doing this, this kind of work.
Adam Castar (00:15:41) - Well, it's funny that you ask that, because I was actually thinking about or the last time I was on, I talked about one of the, it doesn't apply to this campaign, but one of the, themes of this podcast feels like the benefits of strong client agency partnerships and how having a great relationship with your client as an agency helps you get more, rope to do more creative campaigns where, like, if they don't really trust you all the way, then they're like, well, why would you? We don't really know you all that well. Or like, we don't know if you can consistently do good work. So why would we let you do this kind of crazy thing when we're not even sure about, like, the slam dunk or the layups? Yeah.
Adam Castar (00:16:29) - so that's definitely one of them. Like one of the themes there. another one is kind of how it doesn't apply to all of them, but like how simple ideas can really grow into really creative campaigns and like really just like some of the coolest campaigns are born off of, just like a random thought or something like that. Like, you know, Matt and Tommy from courage, where they just found that one thing on. Yeah, in the AI, in AI, and they're like, oh, we should make a campaign out of this, or Jesse and Gerardo also from courage. I think there was like an early morning text or something where, like, Gerardo had this idea, for that campaign with, KFC, you know, this one, this campaign. I think there were just like, there was like, having a good foundation to build off of, really is probably what I mean, that to, having a good foundation where it's like, here's where we're grounded is like, only in fantasy is this campaign's like their foundation is only in fantasy.
Adam Castar (00:17:40) - And that's kind of like what they've been sticking with. It's been successful obviously for for five years now.
Camden Bernatz (00:17:46) - Yeah. Having a like they talked about having if you know the brand you know the brief kind of like having a strong brand. But all the work is easier when you understand a consistent brand voice and tone and position. I'm going to drop an analogy on you can I do that? I think whether it for better or for worse, often I process things in analogy. So I was thinking the other day I was talking to someone about you talked about the agency client relationship, and I was thinking about that. Here's my analogy. Taking the relationship professionally and applying it to like, romantic relationships. Not that it should cross those lines, but I think there's some parallels. I, I've had I've had conversations in the past with some different agencies or, sorry, different brands. I mean, as an agency, I won't name names, but sometimes they'll come from a slew of past agency relationships that they were unhappy with.
Camden Bernatz (00:18:36) - We left so and so because they didn't weren't giving us results or, sometimes a lot of them in a short period of time. They kind of seem to be agency killers and I, I to compare it to romantic relationships. I feel like there are there are two kinds of organizations that look for agency partnership. You either are looking for kind of a friends with benefits relationship where you have you have. And it's noncommittal as far as long term agency of record. But you when you need them or you're feeling like you need something new, you go back and get something from them, you know, scratch that itch. And then there's committed relationships and whatever you need, go for it. As long as you're I think I think agency or a clients need to understand themselves and what they're looking for, because I think there are problems sometimes when a client, a brand that is really geared for a friends with benefits relationship, tries to settle down with an agency because then they get restless and they it's what you only break up if you've been in a relationship.
Camden Bernatz (00:19:40) - Does that make sense? Like and sometimes people are they think well the standard is you sign an agency, you have to have an agency of record or you have to have a long term engagement, which is great. And as an agency, of course, we love that. We love being able to grow together and have a relationship, not romantically but professionally. As long as that there actually at both sides are committed to that. And I think sometimes clients think that's kind of the only way you go about it. Well, if I want to have a relationship of any kind, I better sign up for the long haul. And then they get restless. I think it's okay. Why? I'm not opposed to agency of record relationships. I think it's okay sometimes if you're like, I want to date around, I want to have friends with benefits. I want to as long because we because we can be a friends with benefits agency, you know, at our agency, as long as you know, when you okay, it's time for a new project.
Camden Bernatz (00:20:27) - Or here's my reason I come back to you or here's my objective. And, we're happy to deliver on those as well. And it's okay to have that. So anyways, I'm not preaching to yo. Adam as the one who necessarily needs to hear that. But like I've thought about some past relationships that seem to sour, even though there was no big blowup or controversy or anything that bad that happened on the account. I just think sometimes certain clients are not geared for or set up for a committed relationship, and therefore they have to break up. So I don't know if that resonates with anybody else listening to the podcast, but that's my random, probably imperfect analogy for the episode.
Adam Castar (00:21:07) - I thought you were thinking about because like, well, Adam Stoker uses this not like a similar analogy, but when he talks about advertising, like paid advertising, where it's like when you show somebody an ad and tell them to buy now, it's like asking someone to get married on the first date. So that's the direction I thought you were going with that.
Camden Bernatz (00:21:26) - That applies to it's all, it's all, it's all relationships right. It's all. Yeah.
Adam Castar (00:21:30) - But it's interesting because also I mean some agencies aren't really built for that might not be built for that either because like it depends on like your bandwidth or like your staff where it's like oh, you know, we're really good at traditional media, but, you know, our digital department is kind of lacking where it's like, maybe you a client would be like, oh, well, I see that. Maybe I'll hire another company to do this digital campaign that we want to do or something like that. So I can kind of I can relate to that.
Camden Bernatz (00:21:58) - And I hate when they come in the door. This isn't just a rant episode, at least not yet. Maybe it is. They come in the door to like do the the strategy building like to build a brand or do something that is really getting to know the heart and soul, or help shape what the heart and soul of your brand is to then leave and have someone else execute on that.
Camden Bernatz (00:22:16) - It's not that that's the end of the world. That's your prerogative. But to compare it to the relationship again, it's the it's the relationship that knows you best. And then you're going, you know, you're cheating on them. And so and so it's okay to use different again. And I should stop the analogy because there's all kinds of breakdowns and it's not the same thing. But to the last little extension of the analogy. If friends with benefits again only works if you're if both sides are aware of that. And so if you come in and are going to and going to commit to someone to do all the the deep brand building strategy stuff, who really knows you like Signan and Jake, talk about knowing, your client or like the guys that, courage talked about knowing, you know, the KFC brand and stuff like that or. No, I guess I'm thinking of, well.
Adam Castar (00:23:08) - Jonathan was like.
Camden Bernatz (00:23:09) - Yeah, Jonathan talked about that with, A&W. Anyways, all of them, those all happen because they had a relationship in which they were able to really like we we know that, you know, was, you know, the brand we have trust here.
Camden Bernatz (00:23:20) - And like, we don't have to just give you a specific brief to explain who we are and our voice and tone, what we do. So therefore you can just run with it. That's a great agency of record kind of relationship.
Adam Castar (00:23:31) - Yeah. Oh, the funny thing is I was just thinking about this the last like an example, a little bit of the opposite of that is when we talk to Winslow where he was like, I don't know if the berries and cream ad would have been the same if starbursts if like.
Camden Bernatz (00:23:46) - They were onset
Adam Castar (00:23:47) - would have actually been there on set. So take it with a grain of salt. I guess that's.
Camden Bernatz (00:23:52) - True. That's true. I mean, they did approve the weird concept, right? Maybe it got more weird because they were on set, but they definitely didn't go completely out of left field what they produced. But yeah, that's a funny I kind of go where you listen to that conversation with Winslow. It's a fun I enjoy the game. It's there's the work, the craft itself of doing what we do in producing, marketing, branding, advertising, creative stuff.
Camden Bernatz (00:24:15) - And then I still enjoy the game of the business of it and trying to, you know, help relationships and foster those relationships and, and, be a partner and. Yeah, it's part of it. So yeah. Good stuff. Anything else specifically about, the fantasy football campaign that stood out to you? Anything you want to talk about? We haven't got to. You're again, resident fantasy football expert, so don't want to miss anything from your end.
Adam Castar (00:24:40) - Yeah, I think it was great. Like I said before, earlier in this episode, talking about the different aspects of fantasy football. And also lastly, I mean, this isn't really my my area of expertise, but I thought the creative for this specific set of campaigns was really cool, especially when they said that they recorded everything basically in one location and they changed around different rooms.
Adam Castar (00:25:04) - I was like that's so awesome and efficient, but just awesome that they were able to do that. And I do love the filter that they used on the one where it was.
Adam Castar (00:25:17) - I think it was. They said it was in 1979, where it was just like I wasn't alive in the 70s, but like, I feel like the vibe of the 70s was really like it really came across. It looked.
Camden Bernatz (00:25:31) - The 70s. Yeah.
Adam Castar (00:25:32) - Yeah, it looked like the 70s. good art direction there It's kind of funny. This is kind of another a little bit of a side tangent, but thinking about also when they were talking about how they like mailed in all their scores. I feel like that's really cool and just interesting to see an era of fantasy football before the internet. because I can only imagine how because, you know, there's no red zone. Obviously red zone is like, especially since I'm from New York. the Jets are rarely on here in Utah unless it's like a national game or, they're playing in Denver. So, like, Red zone is my best friend with that sort of thing. so. And it's great, great for fantasy football because you can see all the score, all every scoring play from all the games.
Adam Castar (00:26:25) - And so it's again, it's a it's a different vibe with that too.
Camden Bernatz (00:26:30) - So okay last question for you. Give me the 30 second elevator pitch. As a fan of fantasy football someone who might have seen that ad. You're the backup message to that. Give me that 30 second elevator pitch. Why should somebody who has not been involved in fantasy football get involved this season?
Adam Castar (00:26:45) - Well, if you're already into football, I think that it's a way to kind of level up your fandom. And if you already have a lot of knowledge about the game, it's just another way to kind of put that in a specific place. And it I don't know, it gives you for me at least, it gives me an excuse to watch games that my team isn't playing in, where I'm like, oh, this is kind of cool. Or like, you know, we're we're not jockeying for playoff position or something. I'm a Jets fan. It's rare that we're actually competing for a playoff spot. And I think that especially if you're in a league with people that you know, like your friends, it's another way to kind of bond with like that competitiveness and that trash talk.
Adam Castar (00:27:27) - And, you know, it's just it's just another fun thing to do together. honestly, if you're already watching football, then why not?
Camden Bernatz (00:27:35) - Cool. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, so you mentioned the podcast gave us the name One More Time of your podcast.
Adam Castar (00:27:41) - Yes, it is the Basement Talk Podcast fantasy show okay.
Camden Bernatz (00:27:45) - And available everywhere.
Adam Castar (00:27:46) - Yep.
Camden Bernatz (00:27:47) - Awesome. Anything else you want to plug? Where should people get in touch with you? What's the sign off?
Adam Castar (00:27:52) - Yeah. So you can connect with me on LinkedIn. it's just my name, Adam Castor, and I'm not really active on social media a ton. so, I mean, you could find me, but I don't really post all that much, so I don't know how worth it it would really be. for that.
Camden Bernatz (00:28:11) - We're going to focus on the podcast, and that's that's the spot if you want to get his wisdom. Yeah. Get him to the podcast. Cool. Awesome. Thanks again for being on. I appreciate not only your your perspective on the different, you know, brands and campaign related stuff, but like I said before, very relevant episode I wanted to get you want as someone who's as far as my connections that I'm aware of the most involved in fantasy football, so that that, that perspective was definitely valuable here.
Camden Bernatz (00:28:36) - If you've enjoyed the episode or any past episodes and you haven't subscribed yet, what are you waiting for? Please subscribe to the podcast. We got more stuff coming, some really good conversations in the works, and as always, we would appreciate the review not just as a pat on the back to make us feel good, but that also helps you know, the exposure and and people find the podcast in that sense. So and then we got the email address as well that we've been plugging recently for any suggestions on, who we should have on to talk about their campaign or their brand work or any questions or you know what, whatever you want, we want to just hear from you. So brandspodcast@ekragency.com, I'd love to hear from you there. And, yeah, we enjoyed doing the show. I hope you're enjoying the content. Stay tuned for more. This has been brands and campaigns.
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