The Need to Breastfeed_mixdown ===

[00:00:00] Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Mr. Pick Me and the Man Hater podcast. My name is Regan, aka The Man Hater. And I am Chesco, Mr. Pick Me, joining you from across the pond for our radio hour. Why do you keep calling it a radio hour? Today's show is brought to you by Crumpets. Anyone, um, over there? Sorry.

Sorry for that. Sorry for Chesco. If anybody was confused by my literally perfect accent. It's me, Chesco. That was me. I know. I'm a man of many talents. What is that one where it's like, I was acting? Oh! Um, oh no! I know what it is! It's the guy from, um, the guy who plays, Gus on Breaking Bad where he's like, ha ha ha ha.

I was acting or was I? So anyways, I, I realized there's probably some people that [00:01:00] want to cast me right now in some, uh, some UK dramas from that, but, uh, I'm sorry to disappoint. This is my real voice or have I been acting all along? No. Govna. Govna. You tell me, Govna. You tell me. We get cup of tea. Ooh, that really went bad for you at the end there.

I'll cope with it! I'll cope with it! Are you trying to tell me that the master of the, of British, the Queen's English, Dick Van Dyke was not perfect in Mary Poppins? That is not how every person sounds. They're all like, why did you do that? Hello Mary Poppins. Mary Poppins. Okay, we have to stop. We're not even in the show yet.

We gotta stop. We're derailed. Hi everyone. Sorry about that. If that was offensive to anyone. Um, speaking of maybe us being assholes. Today, we're asking that about someone [00:02:00] else. What is our question for today? Would I be the asshole for telling my husband to basically F off over my breastfeed rule? Fame song!

Teehee! You want bad advice? Man, I'll give it out gladly. I got some good advice for ya. No you don't. I got some good advice for ya. No you don't.

I just want you to know, that was so weird. It was entertaining though. I, I, I did not expect it. And I'm trying to, I didn't, I actually had no idea what I was going to do to mess it up until it started. Oh, I got an idea? I got an idea. That was, I'm not joking, that was my, oh no, I didn't think of how I'm going to screw up today.

Not that I should be thinking about how I'm going to screw up today. Yeah, why are you trying to screw me up? I don't know. But I, I was thinking that was my panic response was to go into a [00:03:00] cockney, a bad cockney accent. Well, that says a lot about you and emergencies. It does, I said before. FOYA EVERYBODY!

EVERYONE GET YOUR BUCKETS! Oh shit, let's get back on track. So I, 23 female, I'm pregnant and getting close to my due date. My husband, 24 male, and I are going over labor and recovery. Now his family, mom, dad, and brother are coming to visit on their way to vacation. He knows I want to try and breastfeed. And he said his one rule is to not breastfeed in front of his family.

He says he doesn't want to make his dad and brother uncomfortable and that I should go upstairs and feed our baby. Every time, every one to three hours, he said he would go up with us. So he could bond to my problem is I would be in recovery and I'm supposed to rest. So stairs happening that often seems like a problem to me.

I told him it's about my recovery. I'm bonding the baby and his family can just leave the room or just not look if they're [00:04:00] uncomfortable. I said, I would wear a cover sometimes, but I need to be able to see because I'll see. He kept insisting, so I dropped the subject. I need to bring it up again before then, so we're both on the same page.

But I don't think he'll have budged. Would I be the asshole for telling him to F off? No. No. No. This drives me nuts! To be fair, growing up, I don't think I understood how essential, like, like, If I saw someone breastfeeding growing up, it wasn't Accepted for that to be anywhere, you know, like other than like private.

So I didn't realize like until like I was older I'm like, why are we throwing why are we forcing breastfeeding people to like In the closet with you like throw a blanket over that newborn baby cover. It's just like so So bizarre, especially in your own home. Can you walk up a flight, which depending on how her birth [00:05:00] goes, she could be my, my wife's recovery.

Wasn't that was a long time. It was not great. Um, if she had a C section, did she get stitches? They're like, Oh, there's all sorts of things. Like, I, I feel like it was a two weeks, at least maybe more than that. She literally could not do any stairs. Well, you're telling me after the baby was out, they're not just back to normal.

So some men expect. Yeah, I know. It just goes back. It's stretchy. It's, it mis, the, it's incredible. Why do you still have a belly? Oh my god, don't, don't. I know, we could go into a whole. The idea is ridiculous, just on the basis of, just as it stands, right? is ridiculous that the woman who just gave birth should do two flights of stairs every whatever amount of time because sometimes I mean she could be cluster feeding and then you're around the clock you know um that she should have to excuse herself because that's the thing is so often with new mothers they're expected to leave [00:06:00] right rather than making them comfortable and including them in a unsanitary place like a bathroom yes ew putting that aside it's like His reasoning?

I don't want my dad and my brother to be uncomfortable. Oh, how about your wife who just gave birth to your baby who's eating? No, he doesn't want the people that matter to feel uncomfortable. Right, but that's what he's saying To your point that that's what he's saying He's like I get that you just like, you know gave birth if you're gonna make it a big thing To our child our quotation giant and I know our child needs to eat but You know, you could could you just Stop being why you got a flop that it's so bizarre.

The only person sexualizing it is you like you're sexualizing or your dad is. It's like, why is the random man top priority in this situation? And [00:07:00] you know, it's bizarre. This strikes a personal chord. My sister's ex was so quote unquote modest that we when we all lived in the same house. He couldn't see our bras if the laundry was drying, and he also didn't want to see her bra straps.

And like, so, so, when he would come over, they'd have to like, literally, like, put them away. And I was like, bro, if you can't see a bra without losing your mind, You have a problem. Cause it's like, that's a you problem. Like it's not on the woman. It's the whole idea of like, well, girls can't wear short skirts because that's indecent.

And that may tempt the boys. It's like, how about the problem is the boys or the men like lusting after someone? I think that's the problem. My brother can't come to my house because of that. Then he's not welcome at my house. I can't see your wife. Yep. Like, uh, why are you looking? And I [00:08:00] think it's also like, it's an excuse.

Because they're sometimes get so ridiculously protective of anyone ever seeing any part of their wife at all. Even in this non sexual way that, that they're like, Oh no, no, what, what? I just don't, he'll, he'll be uncomfortable with it. You're uncomfortable with it. It's just so bizarre. Like it's not sexual.

And yet because a woman could entice someone and by the way, when someone's breastfeeding, you can't see anything. You can't see anything. Not unless you're like There's a side boob Yeah, it's like a baby doesn't want to have a blanket over them Like I I think you can be somewhat discreet if you want to be right if you personally feel better Better about that way that that's fine That's completely, but that's the point.

Yeah. It should be up to you. Right. On what you feel, not on how it's going to make other people who have their own [00:09:00] issues around you feel. In your own home. Like, let's not even argue. Let's just stay in the home. Let's not even argue. We can move on to outside the home too. Cause I also started, let's focus on this exact scenario first.

And we'll move incrementally outward. It's so frustrating. I feel like. The messaging it's sending to her. You just carried our baby for nine months. You gave birth. He hasn't even done it yet. This is so, he's, he's not even had to experience it yet. He's setting the tone ahead of time, which showcases how much of a priority this is to him, right?

To say, I'm thinking ahead to when you have the baby, and to What what's gonna happen when my parents show up like that's how much I prioritize them Is i'm thinking that far ahead. This isn't like a spur of the moment issue So he's he's thinking this through and the idea of like the perception Of being sexy or revealing to his family [00:10:00] members is his priority over the comfort Of his wife and child like you're already like if this was me and that was my husband Ask if there'll be other questions Are you okay?

Have you been potty snatched? But What that would say to me is I am not the priority I am not your number one concern. My comfort is not your concern expecting your wife to do two Two flights of stairs, just to feed your baby, when they can leave the room if it's that big of a deal. He really feels strongly about this.

You should be saying, hey, dad, bro, when it's time to feed, I'm going to need you to go upstairs to give her privacy. And if you said it that way, which is true, because maybe she isn't comfortable. Which happens. Which happens. That's totally fine. A hundred percent. The person you tell to leave in your own home to feed your child is them.

They're, they're the people that are coming there too. I mean, I, cause I've been around [00:11:00] so many moms at this point. Um, if I don't know the mom well enough, I don't know their comfort level. Like sometimes, I mean, with moms, the nurse is in front of you all the time. And like, if I don't know their comfort level, I'll just turn my head and talk to them like this.

Because I don't know, I don't know their comfort level. They're probably fine. They probably wouldn't do it in front of me if they weren't comfortable. But it's like, I, I'm like, oh, I don't, I don't want to make you feel any kind of way. Because it, I mean, it is, you know, very personal. Because my concern with this person I'm friends with is them.

The person feeding a baby who just gave birth. That's my concern. So I will turn if I'm worried about their discomfort. And yet this woman's husband would rather her do flights of stairs than My god, then they see her boob I guess and it's also like I think to your point coming back around when you said like I wouldn't want them They're like if your dad and your brother can't [00:12:00] be around without having a problem.

Like I wouldn't be comfortable with them either. That would be a two way street at that point. Also, like I, and maybe I'm desensitized to it because I w I I've worked kids birthday parties since high school all the way throughout college. And there was breastfeeding at every, almost every party all day.

Cause it was tons of kids there. Yeah. It's really easy not to look. It's so easy. Turn away. Literally. And I'm a people watcher. I have ADHD. I will be Look, it's still easy to be like, I'm not gonna stare at your chest. Right. Just don't stare. While you're feeding that child. Just don't look. It's that easy.

It's not, like, this is not this really difficult thing. How is the boob exposed if a baby's head is on it? Like, they act like she's flashing. And even if she was, don't look. Look. I feel like we've gotten somehow more prude as a society in some ways and I know in other ways we haven't but like in a lot it feels like recently especially it's like there's so much [00:13:00] there's like this big backlash against so many things about the body and and and everything and it's like stuff like this especially is so like it's a It's a boob.

I feel like, I feel like people are going against it more. And I think that it made, it makes more of a discourse. Because there are people who, there are people who like aggressively go against it. Um, I know some of them. Um, who, it's like, oh yeah, I can't breast, it's just, you know, they're almost like middle fingering, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. I get, I get why you're like, God forbid, I feed my child. Use my, cause it's like, they don't want you to show your boobs. ever. But they don't want you to show cleavage because why are you, you're being sexual about your breasts and then you use your boobs for the thing that they're, you know, made for biologically, right?

And that's not good either. And that's also gross. It's like, so it's just impossible not to be gross, I guess, for women. Right. What's also, and [00:14:00] this is, I can tell like from a, from a, So I've done a lot of maternity photography in the past, um, and they're, the guys are the, the, the husbands and the fathers are always, it's such a wild card about how it's going to be, how they're going to be with, with you.

Yeah. Because I'm, because I'm, and it's, there was, there was one I did where the mom wanted to do in a park, a breastfeeding shoot. She wanted to have, uh, and, and the, there, there was this beautiful tree and the pictures came out amazing, but the dad, the entire time, I swear to God, I thought he was going to like beat the shit out of me.

He was so mad. He wouldn't take a single picture with her. He wouldn't really, he would not. He was like, I don't want to be, he was kind of like just pacing behind, but I feel like he was. Fuming that that this this thing that his wife wanted was right was happening to me that shows a possessive person because like if the woman wants it.

If she's comfortable and you're squashing that, because it's not like [00:15:00] protective, because protective would be she doesn't want it. Right. Yeah. That's protective. That's, oh, you don't want this. Let me protect you. She's uncomfortable. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's protective. That's the, you know, I'm a protector. That makes sense.

If she wants this and, and there's no harm coming to her and you're trying to squash that, For zero reason to me, that's like, is she your possession because you're claiming authority over her body and not caring about her wishes. I'll give a really positive example of the way I think it should be. I know an actual good example of a guy.

I did a photo shoot just like a week ago and, uh, she wanted to do kind of the, the, the. Uh, implied nude body scapes, kind of where you see the belly and the body of the beautiful kind of artistic. You don't see anything. They're just gorgeous. Kind of photos showing the belly. Um, and, uh, she, she said she was there with her husband, uh, and, uh, she, she didn't tell him ahead of time, the stuff that she wanted.

I'm like, at least, at least maybe a little [00:16:00] bit, um, but it was fine. But she said it to him. She was like, do you mind if I, he was like, that's what you want, baby. That's wonderful. And, and like, she's doing it and she's like, she's. She like gets undressed and does the posing. And she was like, how do I look? He was like, baby, you look amazing.

You're going to love it. And it was just beautiful, supportive. And I'm like, he's like, look, I'm showing him the photos. He's like, those are great. And he was just like, he was so happy and supportive of other, cause it was what his wife wanted. That was the, those were the images she wanted for the memory of that thing.

Right. And instead of him being like, well, I don't know. It was like totally chill with it. Um, Anyways, but it was nice seeing a person that his, his number one worry was her being happy. Was her getting the memories she wanted, the pictures she wanted. It's just like, what is that? Like, I can't think of anything other than like being possessive, like old, old values, like modesty.

There's so many levels to it because it's like, firstly, she wants to breastfeed. Not there. So you're [00:17:00] already, I'm going against your wishes, and then it's, I don't want my dad and my brother to see it, which is a weird thing, because it's gotta be assumed, because I really doubt, I mean, they may be, he may be reasonably assuming they'd be uncomfortable, but I doubt they've said that, right?

I doubt his, they're like, don't let her breastfeed. Like, I just don't think they've said that. That'd be kind of a weird conversation. Both of them to have. And then, so based on an assumption, he's forcing her to go out of her way. It's so many levels of her being the lowest priority. It's him admitting that he sexualizes it, right?

He has to! He sees another woman doing it. Like, not everything has to be Oh, that's awful. You know, that everything has to be a, a, a sexual, like the, going back to the, the photo shoot, there was nothing sexual about that photo shoot. Right. About maturity shoot. Yeah. There's, there's nothing that was like, but, but it goes back to like, there are certain guys where anything that a woman [00:18:00] does.

Existing as a woman. That's it. It's a sexual act and that's all it is. Their bodies exist to be Lusted after and consumed this breastfeeding always drives me nuts people's problem with it Because again, like I said, it's like that is the one thing you guys claim it's for Right? You're like, oh you shouldn't show your breasts, you shouldn't be lustful, you shouldn't be this, but the one time people are like using it for whatever biological thing you think it's for, you're still condemning them and sexualizing them.

So it's like, so if a woman's body exists, it's sexual. That's netto. And then to punish your wife over the perceived sexualization from your father. Wild. Yeah. Yeah. It goes back to the whole, like, uh, not to get too serious with this and everything we're already kind of producing, but like the, uh, rape culture, right.

And the idea of she's asking for it because it's, as long as you, as long as you. objectify a woman's [00:19:00] body as always being sexual, then she's always asking for it. Right. Right. Then there is no, there is no wrong that men can ever do because it was the, the inference was that there was, he couldn't control himself.

And then it goes back to the whole fucking, the thing that Outrages me to no end about like making high school girls not allowed to show their shoulders or Wear short because it'll distract the boys and they can't control themselves. The boys will lust after him. It's like that's their choice There's nothing to do.

Yeah, I think it's important to recognize the messaging because you know, it's like, okay Well, that's frustrating and he should prioritize his wife and he should prioritize her comfort but it is it is with the messaging that leads to what we're talking about, which is she was being sexual by, by simply existing and using her body in the natural way that one does when they've just given birth.

She is being sexual and needs to. cover that. I mean, that is the messaging is your body is [00:20:00] inherently sexual and to show it is sexual. That leads to people saying, well, if your body is sexual and you were a low cut shirt, then you were advertising said sexuality, meaning you were asking for it. Like all of these messages, you have to always take them down the line because some things that may not seem so harmful.

If you follow the train of thought, become. Very harmful, very quickly. And the last thing on the fucking earth a woman wants to feel is sexualized when she's breastfeeding. Like, literally. Like, it's exhausting. Literally, they're draining life from you, you know? You're so tired. And like, the last thing you want to hear is, Cover up.

Make sure you cover up. It's like, Oh, I'm sorry. I'm just keeping our child alive. Don't mind me. Haven't slept in three days. Like, fuck off. Seriously, fuck off. Like, if your concern after your wife just gave birth is not her comfort or your baby's comfort, but is rather like, he needs to come around because my daddy's going to be around, your [00:21:00] priorities are fucked up, and you need to think about that.

That really makes me mad. Sorry, I'm getting heated now. No, no, but it's also like, taking it from the fully opposite perspective, we want to stick with, with, Men, right. About why they're and no, but like, it goes back to why, like, I get insulted by certain things because it's, it goes like, oh, well, you're unable to control yourself overseeing this.

If she is feeding, you can't help, but just stare because you're a man and that's all you, you will ever want and all you want to do. And it's, it's so gross. It's not true. I guess the basic thing is it's just, it's not true. And people will say it to me as a man of like, well, you know how men are, but no, it's not, it's not, I'm a heterosexual man.

Right. Like women, I can still also control, like not staring at them in a non sexual, uh, moment. And I [00:22:00] can separate the, the moment that not every single moment has to be about my wants, needs, and desires. Right? I can separate that there are times where people are just existing. You don't have to constantly be thinking about that.

And all men can do that. All men can do, are capable of doing it. I would never be looking at a breastfeed. Because it's also like, there's a baby there. If you're not deterred by a baby, you know what I'm saying? Like if your brain is still in the gutter at that, then you need to get help. Truly that's weird.

That's really gross. It reminds me of a, do you remember if there was like the, the controversial, I don't remember what award show it was, but they, they made a song called we saw your boobs. That was Seth MacFarlane. And it was all about, and it was like all these really traumatic, like assault scenes and all these really horrific moments.

They were put like some of the moments where I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. So some of the moments they were showing were like when women were [00:23:00] being assaulted on screen, when they were doing all like, Oh my God. Yeah, there were moments where it was like, Oh, but we saw your boob. They weren't showing it.

But like some of the people that are referencing. Yeah, if I remember correctly, I might be thinking of something else, but I swear that's what it was. It was, they were referencing scenes where women were nude for not once again, for non sexual reasons, correct us in the comments. If we're wrong, if we're wrong, if I was wrong about that, you're seeing a boob, like, like your brain is saying boob sexual.

Okay. Mm hmm. Instead of, oh, this is my daughter in law, this is my sister in law, holding my grandchild, holding my nephew or niece. Like, if you can't see the two people, one's just trying to eat, like, like, if you, if you only see the sexual breasts, like, You're objectifying, you, you are objectifying her. And your inability to see the humanity with the two people is insane to me.

Mm-Hmm. Like, how can [00:24:00] you not, like, that's your grandchild? Like, that's so gross that you could see your grandchild feeding and, and, and I'm And if you did this, we, this could com I think this is completely on the husband. Yeah. For this. Uh, I think it could, I think it could go both ways, but I definitely think he's assuming there's a problem.

Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . But I know plenty of. Men who if a woman breastfeeds they get weird. I've been in some so many situations where even as a result of so many men Being weird about it. Yeah, where i'll be around, you know, especially having young kids other moms around going to classes Oh where it's all over Yeah.

I have been asked permission before as the man in the room, like, do you mind if I feed like more than once? I have had a woman ask me, do you mind if I, if, do you mind if I feed while you're here? And, and like, I feel like it's such an awkward, I'm like, of course. Of course, I don't fucking buy it. I'm like, you're feeding your child, but also like that.

But internally I'm like, yeah, of course you're asking that because there's a lot of guys that would be fucking [00:25:00] weirdos about it or be mad at you or be mad at you. Uh, and so it's, it's a survival mechanism. I think we should address the other side of it, which is, it's not always a lustful response. God, I don't want to think about a lustful response.

That's horrible. I'm just saying it's not that always, but sometimes it's rage and anger. Like, and not just men, not just men. Women are like, like I've seen people get mad at a restaurant more than once because someone's breastfeeding. And I'm like, That's what you do at a restaurant. You feed, you're eating.

Yeah. You're eating. She's eating. Because again, I think I kind of briefly touched on this. There's so much that leads to the isolation of new moms. It's, it's hard enough for a new mom to go out to a restaurant. Like I it's, it's, you know, you're exhausted. But like, I just remember the joy of eating at a restaurant, um, but just like a, a hot meal that you have not cooked that tastes good because, you know, you're so tired.

Then people are like, well, you can't [00:26:00] feed your baby. And it's like, so, so what, what do you want her to do? You want her to throw a blanket, which I'm like, a lot of moms do that anyways. And like, you know, it's fine, but like, you want her to go in the bathroom? Should she have to go to the bathroom? Even people will even get upset when it's happening under a blanket, right?

When they're like, when it's just being in the same room as them, they literally want them to occlude themselves. And like, would you eat your dinner in the bathroom? Exactly. Also, it's a newborn baby. You think it should be in a public bathroom? Right. With all the germs? And they do. They're like, yeah, that's, that's what you, you may, you made this choice.

They make being a woman disgusting, like, it's not actually disgusting, but they make it, like, they make motherhood feel like you're disgusting. And that's crazy. It's the most beautiful thing. I don't understand it. Making, isolating, because they're already so isolated. People will, people will lose friendships when they become mom.

Not even from their own, not even because like, you know, a lot of people retreat socially. I'm talking about people will drop them as friends because now they have kids [00:27:00] that happens all the time luckily, my friends have kids but um it's it's bad and it's actually really detrimental to a woman's health and like That there's a reason that postpartum depression happens a lot and baby booze happens a lot Which by the way is a very cute name for a bout of depression.

Yeah part of that is because we Exile them. We're like, ew. You can be here, but the baby can't cry. You can be here, but the baby can't nurse. Not to mention people judge moms also. Like, people will just yell out critiques. Like, literally. I've, I've been shamed before. Because some random guy on the It was like, it was like chilly, but it wasn't cold.

And she had a coat on, and I was holding her like, in my arms, in a blanket. And he's like, that's too cold for this baby. I'm like, who are you? And you're like, he was like a 50 year old man. He didn't, he was wrong. If anything, she was toasty. And I'm like, thanks, Mr. Mom. Like so helpful. Thank you, random stranger.

Um, so it's like, it's everyone's so hypercritical. And I'm only laughing [00:28:00] because that's so awkward. That's such a weird. It was, I was walking around at a park and he just screamed to call for that baby. I was like, She was, if anything, too warm because I had her all wrapped up. And it's just like people are so critical of mothers.

And like the last thing you want to feel like is your partner is is assisting that like you want your partner to back you and support you. The last thing you want to feel like it's they are. Adding to it or facilitating it like instead of being like hey She's gonna breastfeed because she's a new mom and this is our house and if you don't like it, that's fine But you need to leave the room.

I'm sorry keeping our child nourished is such an inconvenience For your family who's coming to come visit us to see this because they want to come here to see the baby And theoretically to support us after, but instead, no, no, no, no, you, you're the one that has to walk on, on pins and needles and just be in hiding.

That's so ridiculous. It leads [00:29:00] the question, leads to the question of like, who are they coming for? Cause clearly it doesn't sound like they're coming for support. If they're making the mom leave, it doesn't sound like they're coming for the baby. Like it's like, they're coming for the baby on their terms.

Mm hmm. Like that's sorry. That's not how it works. And I don't know if this is like a neurodivergent thing I just don't understand that like that like when I if I go anywhere for any reason I am Constantly just like what can I do? To make your life easier with you having the burden of me here as a guest, right?

Maybe it's a neurotypical thing where that doesn't, I don't know. Or maybe it's just a bad person. But I think it's a misogyny thing too, though. I think it's like, you know, there's, there's traditional rules that are just in place here. Don't expose yourself to me in your home. That's distasteful. Like, that's what I think it is.

This goes back to, there was a video I made recently where I talked about how, uh, [00:30:00] narcissism is a, uh, is a trait, yeah, is a trait though, and is a structural component of white supremacy and the patriarchy, right? And I think this all, this literally, you see, this Boom, right here. What's happening in these sort of situations?

Well, structurally, the men need to be at the center of everything and their needs need to be prioritized over everyone else's at all times, no matter what the situation is. What does that sound like? Right? It's, it's this, and it's, that's why I say it's the structural aspect of the, when you read the DSM five for what narcissism is, it sounds like you're describing misogyny, right?

It sounds like you're describing these things. It's because not all. Abusers are diagnosed narcissists, but all abusers are narcissistic. You have to have narcissistic traits in order to abuse someone. People pretty much agree, like psychologists and especially narcissist experts all agree on that. So if you look at a [00:31:00] system of oppression, There is abuse that goes on and abuse does not exist without some element of narcissism So it makes sense because again to to harm someone or to structurally put someone beneath you And to oppress someone you have to think they're less than you you have to lack empathy for them Otherwise, you could not put them in that system You have to think you deserve more and are better and you have to center yourself, which is to your point You All of it's abusive, and all of it is narcissistic.

Mm hmm. And like the, it goes back to the very basis of what we're talking about. That there's no possible way you could ask your, your partner to do this for that reason, if you're being empathetic, even slightly, if you have even the basic trait of, of empathy to them, you would not have even asked the question, let alone, you know, Had the conversation followed through with it and been surprised and put and put up a, uh, cause she said that she [00:32:00] hasn't, she hasn't brought it up again, where he put, he clearly had a negative response to her saying, I don't want to do that.

Um, and she's kind of afraid to bring it up again. Cause she doesn't believe he's going to see her point. Which is really sad. I also think there's such a lack of critical thinking for these people, because it's like, you know, to me, they're like, well, she's exposing her breast. You wouldn't, would you expect her to expose her breasts if I just walk in any other time?

You didn't do that before we had kids. That's inappropriate. We know that's inappropriate. And it's like, she's feeding a baby! That's where she feeds the baby. She can only feed the baby if she's not using a bottle. And that's how the baby eats like it's so bizarre. There's such a rigidity to their thinking to the old way of thinking That is so constricting, but the only person it constricts is Like, you know what I mean?

No, like, it's so like the fact that he can't think [00:33:00] about that or the make exception or understand why that's happening. It's ignoring the context of everything and acting like it goes back to what you're saying that the rigidity of it. It's like if I walk in on someone changing, that's a problem. I'd walk out.

But whose fault is it? That was exactly. But if you are in the same room as me and start getting undressed in front of me. Yeah, that's your that's on you. Right? It's it's the context, right? Yeah, the same to do it. Not the same situation. But at the end, it's a weird comparison, but I think it is like the same aspect, ignoring.

The fact that this is just someone that, that, it's not like you can choose not to feed your child. I have to get undressed to feed the child. Period. There's no other way to do this. There's not. It's so simple. And like, you know, I talk a lot about like how intentional it is and how deliberate it is. Like, just like weaponized incompetence, right?

Like, it has to be intentional at this point. Like, you are choosing not to think about it. You are [00:34:00] choosing because you have the luxury not to. You have the luxury of not thinking about your wife. You have the luxury of prioritizing your dad's needs over your wife. You know what I mean? Like, because that's the systems.

Like, just, just historically speaking, societally speaking, that's been passable for a long time. You And it's, it's so obtuse, you know, I love that she brings up that he said he'd go with her. As if that makes it all better, right? I'll, I'll go with, I'll go with you. I'll be put out also. It's just as taxing on me.

Right. Right, for, for having to, I mean, I'll, you know, put my knight's armor on and walk with you upstairs. Well, doesn't that speak to the patriarchy though? Because he will put himself out a little bit, right? Rather than ask something of his father and his brother. Rather than upset them or look like less of a man or not as [00:35:00] traditional, he would rather put himself out and his wife out than even talk to them about it.

I guarantee you they haven't had a full conversation because that's such a weird thing to say. There's, there was zero chance that he, that there was ever brought up. He would put their perception of him over even his own comfort. That's a very telling. Cause also, like, can you even imagine how that conversation would go?

No, it'd be so weird. Like, if someone said that to them, do you think for an instant, I don't even know his father, right? But do you think he'd be like, yes, I would prefer if she would leave the room. If her breast is out, so is she. Ugh, disgusting. I don't like breasts. Drivel in front of me. Are you also going to use the toilet in front of me?

Gonna vomit. Vomit? Like, any reasonable person, though, if somebody said, Do you mind? Because obviously you shouldn't mind. Yeah, if it's your problem, you leave. But then I think about, like, my sister's ex. How do those conversations go down? Because something, [00:36:00] I think sometimes it's even subtler. They just let you know they're uncomfortable, like, they just show you disdain in some way, like, huh, or like, oh, your, the bra was up, like, and then you fix the problem for them, like, in, in her case, like, God, I hope he didn't flat out say, I don't want bras or underwear around.

Cuz it's like you don't even know who's who's just chill. Everybody wears bras. Everybody wears underwear like chill bra. I mean bra bras for bras But something had to have happened for her to have that strong of an opinion that she was making us clear of the laundry Yeah, so I don't know maybe these conversations are Do happen are happening.

Yeah, no, you're right. And that's, I don't come from a family like that. Yeah. And I do forget that, uh, this is where my blind spot often comes in though, was that I have, I come from such a hippie, dippy kind of like, my mom was like a, a San Francisco feminist flower child. Uh, and I was, my grandmother was a [00:37:00] Marine and I was raised around art.

I was raised around all this. So I was in theater and fine. I did like figure drawing and stuff like that. When I was young, like all of that stuff, it's always been, I do think my blind spot has to be, and I do think this also related to my neurodivergence because it was never, I was never taught that I was supposed to act offended by things.

Uh, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I Yeah. So I don't, I never learned to mask in that way, which is a good thing. Right. But I never, and it comes like, you know, certain times when people are, uh, this comes up with autism a lot where people are like, Oh, you're supposed to act upset about something when it's not really upset.

You're supposed to act offended by things. You're supposed to act in certain ways. But because of the fact that I was not in a, in an environment growing up where I was Expressly taught to be ashamed of those sort of things or taught to be, to be offended by the sort of things I never had that mask. And I think that is a blind spot for me.

Yeah. And that, and that I'm like, of course, nobody would ever have that conversation, but you're right. I, there, there probably [00:38:00] are in, in these households, maybe things going on that. Yeah. I, I wasn't privy to those conversations. My family didn't have stuff, but you know, my, The, the generation above certainly did there, you know, I'm sure of it.

Um, it's, it's interesting though, because like, I have a very adverse reaction to like nudity in general, like even on shows and stuff. But my response is like, Oh, like, like that's personal for yourself. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like, I, Oh, I've done something wrong. I need to cover my eyes. Like I need to look away. My response is never, how dare you, you know, like this is your problem.

Ah, it's like, Oh, it's pardon me. The logic to me as I break it down is if they see the breasts, right. They're said breast way too many times in this episode. Um, if they are seeing it, right, then they are recognizing [00:39:00] There's a discomfort for them at saying like oh, this is sexual like it's not right, but that's what I think they're thinking but their reaction then isn't to look away, their reaction is to be mad.

Maybe they do look away and they're angered that they have to be disturbed, right? Oh, how dare you? I think it's part of the Sometimes they keep looking though and they're just like you. I guess so, yeah. You know what I mean? Like maybe they do look away. Maybe you're right. Maybe it's the Part of that might be like, how dare you inconvenience me?

I should be allowed to look wherever I, if she wasn't breastfeeding, were you staring at her chest? At her boobs? I know! That's what I mean, like, you have to look to need to look away. Yeah. And it's like, every, it's so, it's just like, because you think of if somebody had some, I don't know, if somebody had a disfigurement or something on their body that they were sensitive to.

Right? That happens all the time. Or, you know, they [00:40:00] have a scar, they have this, that, and the other thing. Um, you don't stare at that. No, no. And I think also along those lines, though, people, anyone that has been in a situation where there's something worth staring at, understands that someone might look.

Sure, sure. Understand that someone might take my glance, but it's, there's a difference between someone noticing it versus someone just like locking in. Yeah. Locking in and like, and it's the responsibility like every human being. Mm-Hmm. who has been socialized with other human beings, understands there are situations you will be in where you can't look.

Or shouldn't look. Like, I don't know, someone's skirt blows up. Yeah, who Right, right. There's, like, it is very normal to not look at some area. Someone's, whatever. That is a part of being a human being. Like, you, it's like, it's like, how dare you take my right to stare at your body? It's like, don't look. Right.

And like, the worst you're gonna see is a side boob. You've seen a boob before. They're not coming on to you. Like, [00:41:00] what is your problem? Like, why is this so, like, I guess, I guess it really showcases to your point, like, the people at the tip, like, at the top were like, Oh, how dare I be inconvenienced? How dare I be forced to look at something I don't want to?

It's like, What? Like, welcome to life. Right. Why do you think you get to control what's going on? Especially in someone's own home. Let's like, putting that aside. Like, there's stuff that you're not gonna like. You're not gonna like people's hair. They comment on that as well. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's like, why does your discomfort for a completely natural thing that is unrelated to you?

Well, technically related because it's a child related to you. Um, why is that something that you get to critique and control that's crazy to me because it's not even a and it goes back to the whole purity culture um thing I think a lot of it is because it's my my perspective and what I stand by is that If you're not harming somebody, then why do you, why do you care?

Why is it, there's no, but I think in the [00:42:00] eyes of, and this is once again, just because we talked about my blind spot, I think the eyes of some of these people, you are harming people, right? That is a harmful sexual part of you because it goes back to sexualizing. I know. No, no, no. I'm not, I need to be quick.

I need to be clear. I know. I want to make sure I am not saying this is a correct choice. No, I know. I know. I'm just saying like, it's. Yeah. It doesn't make sense. It's not sexual. And that's the way it doesn't make it is. And there, I don't think there is any logic behind it. It's this narcissistic, uh, abusive self centeredness that is controlling.

It's all of it. Once again, policing women's bodies, right. And you get another, Oh, here's another opportunity to police women's bodies, uh, right. That we can do any opportunity. To let women know their place is going to be end up being a structurally ingrained part of our society, right? It has nothing to do with harm, has nothing to do with any sort of actual real world [00:43:00] implications.

It's just another excuse to let women know that this natural, necessary Thing that people want that the same people that will critique will also be the same people that want to have babies and don't bottle Feed they'll be the same. Yeah. No, you need to breastfeed you need to do it Yep, well at the same time shaming you and making it difficult.

It's not an accident. It's a feature Yeah, this is a it's literally a part. It's another way to to uh shut down women and put them into a subservient Part of of where they have to feel shameful about something that there should not be any shame attached to yeah I mean people are far too comfortable Trying to control in public settings people's but in the you know, I think the saddest thing is, you know Now we're kind of speaking to it on a grand scale.

But in this case, it's like her husband doesn't have her back And that's really like I could I would go to bat like when my wife was pregnant like she's [00:44:00] not touchy She's she's introverted and she's a bubble like she has her bubble. Mm hmm I remember strategizing if someone were gonna try to touch her belly.

I knew you were going there right now. I was literally, and when I would be, I would be around her, I would purposefully maneuver myself so people, cause people come up and will grab, I'm not joking. That, like, luckily a lot of it was COVID time, so she wasn't. It only was a problem at first, but people will come up and touch you.

People will try to grab your stomach, touch your stomach. It's so weird. And I remember like, I'm like, I'm, I had all these things I was going to do if that happened. And like, I was my, her biggest cheerleader and defense. Like once after someone gives birth, like they need help, they need support. They need you to make their meals.

They need you to take care of them. They need obviously help with the baby. That's not, I'm just talking about them personally. And it's like, to think that even before it happens, he's already prioritizing, like, he's setting the [00:45:00] stage that he's prioritizing his family's perception over her actual needs and comfort.

And that's really sad for her because that's not a good partner. Am I, back to the baby bump thing real quick, can we talk about, like, that is. I think it's weird, but it's weird because it's socially acceptable. Weird. Yeah. And it's, and I don't, I'm going to talk specifically about men. Right. About like that, that like, we'll feel comfortable.

Like there was no. Situation I, cause I, there are women I know that are very touchy feely with other women that are very much like they, they do, they will even for non pregnant women. We'll, we'll tell, and that's a, that's not for me to, to, to talk about, but like men's, but there was no situation in my life where I would go up to a woman and be like, can I take you?

Touch you. Do you mind if I touch you right now? That's saying if you're asking. And that's what I know. So that's to take it a step further. Then to the idea that not only would I never do that in any other situation, but to think that it's okay for me to do it [00:46:00] without ever, I think it's weird for me to even ask.

I've never asked. I've never once in my life been like, Can I touch your belly? I've never asked. If you know the baby, like, Yeah. I mean, I, I, I like Mm-Hmm. was even hyper sensitive of like, when, when my friends had babies. 'cause a lot of people have like anxiety after they have the baby. Mm-Hmm. and are forced into letting people hold the baby when they're not ready.

And so I was always like, if, if it's helpful, I, but I don't need to, you know, like I was overly cautious. I, I don't want to. be such a negative person and since I get like a family members excited and they're all that's different. I'm talking about strangers in public going up and touching another person's body is absurd.

Do you know how many people will go up and kiss babies? Strangers. Yeah, yeah. That didn't happen to me. Mm hmm. But if it did, I would be throwing hands. Mm hmm. Because no, there are [00:47:00] people, like, people give babies diseases. Like, it's crazy. It's just like, again, it's like this idea that a woman is yours. Like, her child is yours.

It's to everyone's. Except, that's the crazy part is it's like, oh, I should be able to enjoy this. But. You should also suffer for it. You know, it's like, I want to touch your baby, but don't you dare feed it. You know what I mean? It's this crazy, like a woman is constantly for everyone's pleasure or, um, or, or needs to avoid being displeasurable.

Like, it's always like you exist to entertain and enjoy, be enjoyed. And if you're not going to be that, you need to move. And that is such a horrible message to send to women, particularly new moms. And, um, yeah, I think in general people need to knock it off with, uh, telling people. Like, like, openly critiquing people for doing natural things is insane to me.

Right. When there's [00:48:00] so many other people doing weirder shit, like, Yeah. I don't think we need to be, you know, there's, Yeah. Men doing some wild things, you know, and we're more concerned about a mother just trying to feed her baby, like, I think we need to Mm hmm work on our priorities. Like what are our real problems because I doubt it's a mom feeding her baby And is and there there are reasonable people that will say but but also you shouldn't do it in public though Yeah, there were people that I you would think are reasonable.

Yeah still hold that stance that well, but But still wait at a restaurant right at a park. Come on again. It's not like she's exposed Mm hmm. It's literally Women with babies who are breastfeeding should be allowed to exist in this world I do think there's is the interconnectedness of different movements that a lot of people like, you know they either get the free the nipple or you know, but but like but being of being able to have like while you may personally not be like Comfortable with that.

[00:49:00] Yeah. There are benefits from that type of more, and it's not radical. I don't know, but like extreme, uh, type of, or more, more, more further, uh, type of movement that trickle down to the point where they, you know, cause it is, it is more accepted now, even though as, as shameful that, or as, as many people are still shamed for doing it, it's still more acceptable now than 20 years ago, 30 years ago.

Um, but that, and that's a result Of these, these other non related movements, I think, allowing things to trickle down and benefit everyone. And that's why it's important to have these, even if you don't fully agree a hundred percent with all these other type of progressive left leaning kind of, uh, social movements, they benefit everybody, right?

The breaking free of these systems is something that benefits everybody. And I think again, it's like critically thinking like, okay, When it happens, if you're uncomfortable, are they doing something wrong, or are you [00:50:00] uncomfortable viewing it? Okay. The mom is not being sexual. The mom is feeding the baby. I think we could hopefully all agree that there's nothing wrong with that.

That is the only way to feed, like, that's it. That's how it has to be, to feed the baby. This isn't a choice. That's how it is. Okay. So then the next thought is, I am uncomfortable with what's going on. Then don't look, right? Then don't look. And that's a simple solution. And then the people be like, my children, you know, or whatever.

It's like, then teach them not to look. Then teach them that's not sexual. Respect people. Don't sexually, you know, there's, and it can just be like, she's like, that's a natural thing. Don't look. Right? It's simple, but it's, you don't punish the mom because you're uncomfortable or because you don't want to have a conversation.

Mm-Hmm. , because the, yeah, because you wanna avoid having a not even really difficult situation. No. It's literally like, oh, she's, she's feeding her baby. She's don't look. Right. Yeah. It, the, [00:51:00] it's, they always make simple conversations like so much act like it's so much harder than it's, it's like that's not a hard, you don't have to be like, this isn't for sexual pleasure.

You know? It's like you don't have to do that. No. You don't have to bring up all the Yeah. The, all the adult baggage. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, that comes with it. Kids, you just tell them, oh, she's feeding her baby. That's how babies eat. Yeah. Okay. That's also, that's how some babies eat, right? You probably ate that way.

Yeah. Yeah. That's just, that's, that's what happens. Yeah. And then, okay. Kids are much more, they don't care. They're like, okay. They're so receptive about everything. Yeah. And it's the, even with like sexuality about gender, about like, well, you know, when we talk, they're one of our close friends, uh, their, their daughter, uh, yeah.

Does now she she has gone back to identifying as she heard before much of her life She was identified as they them and when we explained it to them, they're like, okay cool. Can I go play? Can I go play? Literally, there's no there is unless you have taught them to hate unless you have taught them to Think that something is wrong [00:52:00] or harmful.

It's not harmful to them. It's to you because you were You're, you're hurt people, and you're a hurt person. And I, I, I think it's important to remember like you don't get to punish other people and dictate other people's lives when they are not harming you simply because you don't want to have a conversation.

Like a lot of the reasons this stuff, this type of like social sanctionings happens is because people don't want to have conversations. Or people are projecting and it's like, it's okay that you have an issue. Like, like if you're uncomfortable with nudity, like I have issues, right? But I don't get to project that onto someone else and I don't get to punish somebody else.

Um, for when they're not doing anything wrong. It's like, they, they want to argue that they have a right to feel the way they feel. It's like, I'm not saying you don't. Everybody has feelings. What I'm saying is if you have a problem, you need to [00:53:00] work within yourself. to figure out why that is and how to.

How to deal with that within, within yourself, because you, you don't get to, you don't get to punish somebody else because you're uncomfortable. And that's the difference is you're acknowledging, you're like, I know I have a thing with this. I'm aware of that. I'm taking care of myself. Uh, I'm not expecting every single, but it almost, this almost sounds like, uh, forget your safe spaces.

Like as if we're like anti, those are the, but I think there are certain, uh, things that we just, you, people just have to get over, like that are just, it's because it's natural. It's not, they're not doing anything wrong. Like they're not, that's what it is. And this goes back and I hate jumping from topic to topic, but like a trans person existing is not doing anything wrong.

Right. Right. Someone breastfeeding. And, and I, I. I'm comfortable bringing up both those issues because both of them are just people existing, right? And, and people are getting mad at them for existing. Yeah. Yeah. Be going to [00:54:00] dinner with your, a man going to dinner with his, his husband, right. It's just existing.

There's nothing wrong going on in this. And this is going to go for all sorts of people. Like you can even go with like people, some people don't like tattoos. You don't want to tattoo for yourself. It doesn't mean other people aren't allowed to get them, uh, and exist in the same space as you with those sort of things.

And so long story short, She's not being an asshole. Her husband needs to get over himself and, uh, really, really starts, needs, probably needs to go to therapy. Go to therapy and like, number one rule, prioritize your wife. Always. All right, friends. Well, that's our episode for today. We have our Patreon. Make sure to check that out.

We do our little pre show. We have our socials, which will be linked beneath this episode. Anything else, Tresco? I asked, we asked last time about a tagline. Mm-Hmm. from everybody. And, uh, someone said, I thought your tagline was Checo awkwardly saying, I [00:55:00] love you, . I know, I know. So I guess I gotta bring, I mean, I'll bring, I'll bring it back for now temporarily.

I'm gonna end each show confessing my love for our listeners. Are you gonna confess it or are you just gonna say you're confessing it? I. Don't know the difference. That's like saying, I'm going to say that I love you. And you're like, do you love me? You're like, you, you be the judge. I'll never tell. On that note, friends, we'll see you next week.

Bye. Bye. I love you. Oh, there it is.