leave chappell roan alone ===

[00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome to the Mr. Pick Me and the Man Hater podcast. I'm Regan aka the Man Hater. Sorry, my alarm just went off on my Alexa. I thought we had it. I thought so too. Oh man. I don't know if they show it on the mic. No, you just looked insane for a moment. I can't hear it. I was so ready to like, just do it normally today and have that be the thing.

And then it was like, Alexa was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not today. Not today. It never makes noise. I don't even know that thing made noise. Well, we didn't hear it. So you could be making that up, but I, um, it is, it is boom, boom. It's like a note. I know the one downstairs does when there's like a package arrives or something.

It goes like boom, boom. I don't know. I'm Chesco Mr. Pick me on the ones and twos. What does that mean? What does that mean? I'm uh, that's a DJ term. Oh, sorry. I'm not cool. I don't know what that means. I think the ones and [00:01:00] twos, I don't, this is my not being cool. I know the term. I don't know what it means. I think it means like the ones in each turntable is the one and the two, and someone's going to hear this and be like, you idiot, dummy, wouldn't be the first time.

Well, friends welcome back today. We have. I feel like a very interesting topic that I happen to be heated about, but it's kind of sweeping the internet right now, particularly on Tik TOK. Now granted, um, today's Wednesday when we're recording it. So if anything comes out after Wednesday, We don't know about it.

We're from the past. Um, but what are we talking about today, Jessica? We are talking about, so Chaperone recently released two TikTok videos back to back talking about, um, her experience of her newfound Major celebrity and the way that people interact with her in person. Yeah, and some people are pissed [00:02:00] You want bad advice man, i'll give it out.

I got some good advice for you Good

advice for you

Chapel road Okay, so for those of you who don't know, well, God, if you don't know who Chapel Rowan is, go listen to her immediately. What is wrong with you? I guess we should probably admit our bias. We're biased. We really like Chapel Rowan. Yeah. She's the singer of Pink Pony Club. It's very popular right now.

She's, what would you call her genre? Pop? It's hard to define it. Like alternative pop? It depends on the song. Mm hmm. The gays love her. Yeah. Feminist icon. Um, but she's really unique and she, she came up really quickly to the point that like, I remember people kind of hinting or [00:03:00] insinuating she was like an industry plant and then everybody else on the internet going, they could not plant someone so cool.

Like, she is so unique and interesting and outside of what any, you know, You know, executive in an office could ever conjure up and it's genuinely the best. And I say this, I've been writing about her on threads for the past couple of weeks, but she's, I'm like, I was at a point at a point where it was like, this is just what this account is going to be about her.

It's one of the best albums I have ever heard, like from front to back. Like it's, it's one, it's the first unskippable. Album I've I've listened to in a long time where every single song is and I was after like 25 lessons. I was like, all right What's my favorite song and I limited the down to almost every song on the on the album Like oh, that's just every song and the ones I left out I was like, well it do I not like them only because I've listened to them so many times Good luck, babe is my favorite one, which is a song about [00:04:00] Her dating at some point a woman who can't accept her sexuality and ends up with men despite like probably not enjoying them and oh my god, I was like, oh god, that could have been me I would not be the singer of that song.

I would be the one she's singing about It's so funny because I will be belting out these songs in my car and I am not the target audience Before, uh, like one of my favorites, I, like I said, I don't have a favorite. One of my favorites is casual. Um, that's a great chorus. It's so good. But like, if I'm building up the chorus, it doesn't make any sense for me to be singing back.

You're like, I have not experienced this in a long time. My kink is karma. It's so good. Oh, my God. I've been binging that because that is how I feel. I love karma. If I see someone getting some well deserved karma, I'm like, delicious. Absolutely. Play it on repeat. The second verse just begins. So, like, wishing you the best in the [00:05:00] worst way, uh, using your distress as foreplay.

Oh. Chef's kiss. Uh, it's amazing, but the thing is, I don't have any, there's nobody I dated where I like have any ill will toward, like, I don't have any bad ex stories. I've talked about this online before. There's not a single person that I've dated I, there's some, I should probably have negative, I'm like, I don't think it's a fair assessment.

I've shared some stuff for you when I like, yeah, off the air, um, where I probably should, uh, I guess know that our Patriot knows, I think I was on the Patriot, um, but there's some stuff I definitely probably should not be as, as like, they were great. They were good. I mean, I told you recently, I, I literally was like, this guy's a good one.

And then looked back, I was like, oh no. He treated the like shit. I just rewrote it. So yeah. Anyways, let's get back on topic Chapel around. Yeah. The entire show is just us discussing. That's how good her music is though. It's like, it really conjures up a lot of emotions. Um, it captures [00:06:00] very specific emotions in a but in a mm-Hmm, on a grand scale where like it feels so specific and yet it's so universal to.

many people's experiences. It's very accessible. I mean, the, the, the joke is that it's she, she makes music for your, your tagline for, uh, F and I sky, right? The is that she's gays and days. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She does. And there was, there was one guy that made a music. He was like, am I allowed to, I'm a, I'm a guy.

Am I allowed to love her as much? And I'm like, she's so good. I think so. I mean, you just for her like vocal abilities, her songwriting, her musical skills, like, She does stuff also that shouldn't like, I'm like, I shouldn't like this as much as like, it seems almost like campy, but it seems cool when she does it.

She also has a really beautiful range. And like I was explaining to my wife, like the way that she goes from like chest to head voice and like, she can push really high up. It's so flawless and effortless the way that she [00:07:00] sings even, but it's still really powerful and sounds like it's raw. Yeah. But like Pink Pony Club is just like happy dancey.

And then when you did the part, especially the breakdown, you're listening to what she's saying. You're like, Oh, when she does like the, the, when she talked to her mom and the, it's like, Oh God. But I mean, it is, it's very hard to have a. Like to sing that beautifully and like to like I said to go to chest to head voice in the way that she does without like having a distinct like Difference it's very hard to sing that soulfully and and and still technically beautifully like that's that's you don't see that Combination very often.

So anyway, she's great. That's the point but so bias there She has the nerve I guess some people would say to tell her fans. Hey, just because I'm a famous person doesn't mean you can do things to me that would classify as harassment and stalking. Would you like me to [00:08:00] read? Uh, yes, please. So people know the exact, uh, words.

I do not want to misquote Chapel Rowan. I'll tell you right now, please. So this is the first video, uh, that she was, there's two videos. She posted back to back. The first one is. I need you to answer questions. Just answer my questions for a second. If you saw a random woman on the street, would you yell at her from the car window?

Would you harass her in public? Would you go to a random lady and say, can I get a photo with you? And she's like, no, what the fuck? And then you get mad at this random lady. Would you be offended if she says no to your time because she has her own time? Would you? Would you stalk her family? Would you follow her around?

Would you try to dissect her life and bully her online? This is a lady you don't know. She doesn't know you at all. Would you assume that she's a good person? Assume that she's a bad person? Would you assume everything you read about her online is true? I'm a random B. You're a random B. Just think about that for a second, okay?

I agree. I think it's really weird how we treat celebrities, especially like musicians. It's better, [00:09:00] like, she came out of nowhere. She went from, like, not being recognized to being a superstar at a rate I really haven't seen. That's not generally how the industry usually works. So she just was skyrocketed.

And she's from a smaller town, isn't she? Yeah, I think somewhere in Tennessee, I think. Yeah, I don't think she's from a big town. Based on the lyrics from her songs. That's what I'm pretty sure though. Like she's not, she wasn't like a city girl. She was like, it's just, it's just a lot. And. I think the way people, like parasocial relationships are really strange, and like, I think it gets talked about a lot by like, not by stars as much because I think they get pushback, but like, there's YouTube people, like, um, do you know who Nickisnotgreen is?

Nick is green. He's got like multiple channels. I don't know if I saw him. I thought he's a commentary kid He's probably a little bit younger than me. I don't know I don't know how old he is, but he I saw an interesting video from him where he was like it's really weird when [00:10:00] people come up to me that I've never met in my life and Treat me like their best friend and engage with me Like they know everything about me when I've never spoken to them.

I don't know them. There's this false familiarity this false intimacy He didn't say those words, but basically it makes me really uncomfortable Um because like I don't know you but you you treat me like i'm your best friend And he's like, I get that, like, my content, you know, is, you know, comforting in some way, or like, you relate to me, he's like, that's great, this is a butchering of what he was saying, but a general idea, it's like, you know, but you don't, you don't know me, and, uh, I love that you enjoy my content, but I'm not comfortable with, you know, You then treating me like we're besties and thinking like that's an appropriate way to treat a stranger and I've, I, I agree with that.

What is your take? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's one of those things where, uh, I also think there's, there's so many layers to this as, as there is with any, uh, conversation I'll be, I'll use my own and I have, [00:11:00] you know, 0. 01 percent of, of chapel's fame, right? You know, like, uh, but the, so I, when I get approached, I'm, I tend to be fine with it, but it's very, it's not like every second of every day.

I'm still allowed as a niche internet personality, right? However, as a, as a B list internet celebrity, maybe D list, whatever it is, uh, you, I'm still allowed to exist and have my life. The, if somebody were to come up to me and, and, uh, and I, I were to say like, I'm, I'm busy. I'm with my kids. I'm doing something like that.

Even if they got mad at me, no, one's going to care. It doesn't, it's not going to end up being this big deal, but I feel like when you reach a certain level of fame, whether it's as a niche internet personality or as a singer, musician, celebrity, et cetera. Um, you end up having to constantly, you don't ever get a chance to just be, just be you to exist in society.

And I think that's, that's something I can definitely relate to on a, uh, neurodivergent perspective, [00:12:00] asking perspective, like the idea that I could never exist without performatively embodying this, this, this. And having to give of myself constantly to everybody at all times is horrible. That, that sounds like the worst thing possible, uh, to me.

So Druff Walla was interviewing her and she was talking about it and she was like, I miss being able to just be like a person. She's like, I miss going to forever 21. I miss being able to like, essentially be wild and public and make out with somebody without everybody judging me or watching me, she even said, I miss like frolicking, I used to just.

Like basically like I was a weirdo like I used to be able to just be a weirdo and she's like now I can't do that. I can't just be myself and exist and like I think we need to be clear too about the type of harassment She's receiving because do you have what that like the details of that or do we need to look that up?

I don't I don't know if there are the details out there [00:13:00] Well, there was something that happened where somebody like Like, someone showed up at her house, I think. Mm hmm. Um, I'm trying, let's see if we can find that. While you're looking, responding to what else she said, too, I had, I remember when I was interviewing with an agency before, and they were like, what are your goals?

Mm hmm. Uh, and I was like, to stay exactly as it is right now. Like, I don't, like, I, and they, and it was very confusing for them, um, because I think there is a, and I think fans also believe this, that everybody wants to be famous. That clearly you chose to be this way and we'll get, she kind of talks about this in a second video, which we'll get to in a second, but I think there is this misconception that everybody wants this thing, or if, if I want this thing, why would you not want it?

Right. This, this thing. Why, how could you be upset about, you have everything I've ever wanted, why would you reject me giving you the thing that I want? Right. Without ever assuming that maybe somebody might have a different perspective on that. Well, it's also [00:14:00] interesting because like, The fact that we align the two together as one thing, like you could want to be a famous actor, you could want to be a successful musician, you know, you could want to be a successful influencer, you know, you could want to be so many of those things.

And you could still not want to be stalked and harassed. Like, I honestly cannot believe like, just like paparazzi, for example, like, I cannot believe that they're allowed to do that. I mean, they, they do stalk people. They literally stalk people. And like, They swarm people and like they're just allowed to do that and and like they incite violence from them Like they'll purposely try and piss them off.

They'll try mess with their kids Like well, I remember they like there was like even like with like National Enquirer and all those other big ones They'll even like publish Like there was always that big scandal, like nude photos and stuff. Oh my God. Yes. And it would be stuff. One, they'll publish ones that were clearly hacked and stolen.

That's already, that that's already, I think there are laws that are in place [00:15:00] now about those, but there'll be things where like, they'll be on a balcony somewhere where they were able to see in the backyard and zoom in on somebody. Yeah. And they'll publish those. Like, and I don't understand how that, the legality that one.

I remember one of those that they actually got in trouble. But that's the life you, like, even in your own backyard, right? Even on with hanging out somewhere, that privacy is now gone. If you forget to close your blind on your window one day, that privacy is now gone. Right. And that's, that's, that's a part of our culture that the celebrity.

Idolization, um, where it's just expected that they're supposed to give up any autonomy over their own life just because they have a certain level of fame. And it's ridiculous. Basic consent that like, like the idea like I own you and like that it's like they're saying that she shouldn't even be able to say no.

What? Like, this isn't even just like, oh, she has a bad attitude. People are mad that she would say like, please don't come up to me. [00:16:00] Something really weird happened where she was genuinely getting stalked by a fan. Who was like, I can't remember what was like monitoring her location and like her family's location.

I believe somebody showed up at somebody's house. Or at least like following, like people were saying where she was located, like, like a live update of where she was. And that's not okay. Like to do to someone. And like the fact that they're like, you can't have an opinion on being stalked. Like, I think you can.

We talk about, you know, on many episodes, we've talked about how just simply existing as a general woman in society. Right. You have to walk around with certain, uh, you can't have blinders on where you have to be aware of where you are, who you're around, who's approaching you and doing those things. Yet somehow, uh, she is still, she's still a woman in her body existing in that same world where danger is still present, [00:17:00] where there are still people that will outwardly try to harm her.

And yet she's somehow expected to just. Not not, uh, to stop doing everything she has done for 26 years. I think she's 26 of her life simply because now she has a great album that people love. Right, right. She's no longer allowed to have her, her own, uh, To, to, to want to do the things she wants to do. And it's disturbing because it's people who are claiming to love her doing it.

I think too, is these aren't people that, I mean, she did talk about being criticized and stuff, but like, these are supposed fans and it's like, okay. If you're a fan of this person and you love this person and you want them to keep making music and they have voice that they are uncomfortable when strangers come up to them, which is actually very common.

Like how many people on earth are like, Oh, stranger that doesn't know me, please approach. Not many. Right. Um, [00:18:00] and yet instead of being an actual lead, like loving and supporting person, To this star that they say they love. Uh, they're like, well, screw you. Not to mention she is neurodivergent. She's bipolar.

Okay. So she's come out and said that and talked about how she's had breakdowns, like mental breakdowns. She's talked about how hard it was for her growing up. Like I am also bipolar. So like, I don't mean that in a negative way, but you do have to take into account someone who, you know, has. Is dealing with some mental health issues or you know has consistently had to deal with them Like this type of behavior does really affect them and can really be detrimental to their mental health and clearly She's distressed in these videos.

She's not like I mean, she's not screaming or anything. They're not scripted. No, she's upset Yeah, she's and like also, like I said, they're stalking her family too. So it's not just her now her family's getting stalked It's like you can tell she's in distress [00:19:00] Mm hmm. And. She's like, just like, Hey, stop, stop.

Uh, and it's, it's insane to me that people who claim to love her and love her music are then being like, how dare you? How dare you have boundaries? How dare you say, I can't come up to you. You should be thankful. And this is a constant thing for her now. This isn't like, like, you know, Oh, like one person comes up to me in the street.

This is mobs of people, people following her. This is a constant, every like, she cannot leave her house. without people addressing her. She talked about how she tried to go to yoga. She tried to go to yoga just to relax. And the teacher was like, you look like Chaperone. Do you know you look like Chaperone?

You look just like her. And then did the whole class and wouldn't stop pointing out how much she looked like. And like, yeah, this is the giraffe wallow one. She was like, you should have said, no, I hate that bitch. Um, but yeah, I was like, that's funny. I think my husband showed me her albums. Yeah, right. I don't think it's fair and to your point because [00:20:00] you kind of spoke on this to say to someone like, oh, you want to do music like, oh, people like your music.

That means you literally don't get to exist other than hidden in your home. Mm hmm. Without being monitored and expected to perform. And this is what it's, it's a performance. She's saying I'm not comfortable. So if she's engaging with you, you are expecting her to perform because what? Because you like her music.

If this was anyone other than a star to her point, like that would be stalking. That would be harassment. And yet we're supposed to be like, she's just supposed to take it. And there's, there's, and this is, I want to be clear what I'm about to say. Nobody deserves. To have nobody is, I think, required to do any of these things, right?

Nobody's ever required to give up their body in that sense. It's a type of giving up of your, of your body and your space. Yeah, but it's not there. There are people that do get famous for being famous, right? You think of, uh, the, the, uh, you can, the big ones would be like, you know, the Kardashian. The young [00:21:00] Paris Hilton, uh, you know, the, you know, any number of influencers that they're, they're known for just being known.

Right. Yeah. I think at that, the expectation there, I think many of them probably do enjoy the attention. Many of the attention. Cause that's the whole point, right? That's the literal definition of, of why, why are they're doing it means their brand is getting bigger. If they're getting recognized or doing those things.

But it is, it is fascinating to be like, just because you happen to love making good music and you like performing, you don't, it doesn't mean you have to sign away. Or it almost seems like that is part of the social contract, right? People are expecting you to do is that, well, you like making music. You're good at that.

We like your life is over, right? We own you. We now own your, you know, everything about your life right now. And that's, and that's Absolutely absurd. Yeah. Right. To be able to do that. You know, I think a lot about when I got with my wife, like I'm obviously extroverted. Uh, she's severely introverted and it [00:22:00] took me a long time to understand like what that meant for her and what that looked like and how she needed to recharge.

And it was something I had never really thought about. You know, uh, because it wasn't my experience and you know, I, I really started to think about like the world is not made for like introverts and introverts aren't allowed to exist. And I don't know that Chapel's introverted necessarily, but it is true for her that she wants people out of her space and out of her face.

And, uh, I mean, I see that similarly with like introverts, like people just expect you to want to be social. They expect you, even like touching, like hug on you. You know, there's so many things where like consent isn't even in the conversation. In social interaction. And I, I feel like that's true of what's going on with Chapel.

And like, it like, she's not faking anything. Like if someone went on, you know, Facebook. Facebook or Facebook. What am I saying? If someone went on, you know, uh, TikTok and was [00:23:00] like, I love my fans. I'd love when they come up to me, come up to me anytime. I love to talk to you. And then someone came up to them and they were an asshole.

Then I'd be like, okay, that's kind of messed up because you told them to do it. But when someone, she's been saying this, this isn't the first time she's actually said that she said this a couple of multiple times in interviews and, and other platforms, like, I don't like this. I don't like being come up to, I don't want to take pictures.

And, and which by the way, A lot of celebrities refuse to take pictures now. That's not uncommon or do autographs. Um, I read an article about different celebrities who don't do that anymore because they don't like, they're like, I would rather talk to you. Like Billie Eilish has talked about it being like the girl who was like filming her when she was in her face and she pulled her phone down and was like, Hey, you can connect with me in this way.

Like, um, but anyways, this is not an uncommon thing. This is like becoming more and more an issue as social media. I think. I think also as people can get [00:24:00] clout from seeing celebrities. Like, you know, if you make a tick tock where chapel rooms in the background, oh my God, you know, um, but anyways, I think, um, I think we're going to see more of this.

I think she is just really, you know, she probably has less media training to be honest. Um, but she's just being straightforward and it's like, She has the right, like she has been straightforward this whole time that she doesn't like that. So why, why are people forcing her into a non consensual interaction and then being pissed at her because she's like, I don't like this.

Let me read, just because we've already touched on some of it, just for the sake of having it on here. Um, she says, I don't care that abuse and harassment, stalking, whatever, is a normal thing to do to people who are famous or a little famous, whatever. I don't care if that. It's normal. I don't care that this crazy type of behavior comes along with the job, the career field I've chosen.

That does not make it okay. That does not make it normal. It doesn't mean I want it. It doesn't mean that I like it. I don't want whatever the fuck you think you're supposed to be [00:25:00] entitled to whenever you see a celebrity. I don't give a fuck if you think it's selfish of me to say no for a photo for your time or for a hug.

That's not normal. That's weird. It's weird. How people think that, you know, a person just because you see them online. Or you listen to the art they make. That's fucking weird. I'm allowed to say no to creepy behavior. Okay. And move that last line. Boom. I mean, it's that's consent. I'm allowed to say no to creepy behavior.

Absolutely. That's, that's what it comes down to. It really bothers me. And like, I think about like, even in my own life, like people touching me, like people demanding hugs, like there's this guy who is really, this will be a short tangent, but this guy. Now I'm doing it. We're talking on the pre show about how Chesco and I both will preface a tangent with like, we'll come back around.

It has to do with it. There's something going on. Um, this guy, um, in my opinion, it sexually was very like sexually harassed me and was very inappropriate, uh, for the record, asking me graphic questions about being a lesbian, uh, and then talking about all the women. and guessing if [00:26:00] they were top bottoms or switches.

So just so you know how inappropriate this guy was at a work event. Okay. So inappropriate, yeah, the wildest thing, it was like the chills part. Well, no matter what, yeah, it was at, I worked in a work setting with everyone who worked together, like this was an after hangout, but like, it was definitely, yeah, terrible.

And you know, he like. We'll be like, where's my, where's my kiss? Where's my hug? And like I finally started working around that and like not hugging him and not like Like I don't want my entire body pressed on yours. I don't want you kissing my face like I don't like you like why do you have the right to my body in that way?

And like I just started realizing how many times, like, I would be hugged by people I didn't want to hug, you know, like, little instances of that, like, you know, like, ugh, I just, because when people hug you, they can be weird, we all know that, like, and to think of her being hugged, like, I try to put myself in her shoes, and I really can't think of, like, It's [00:27:00] baffling, but to think of, you know, 50 strangers a day, maybe more, coming up to you and wanting to touch your body and hug on you and talk to you and interrupt your life and take photos with you and take photos of you.

That's so common. It's like people getting their photo taken without their consent, like, uh. And also it's not, you don't know which one is innocent. Which one is, which one is going for it? You don't know. And that's, that's the whole, and I talked about the, the layers of, um, of privilege when it comes to these certain things to like, whatever people have approached me.

And I was at Lego land with my family and, uh, someone came up to me very quickly and they're like, are you, are you. Yeah. You do the TikToks? yeah. She was like, I love your stuff. I was like, oh, thank you. And we walked away. But I, there was, as, as someone living in the body that I have, I didn't, even a random person approaching me, I wasn't worried, not, not saying somebody couldn't do something dangerous to me.

Why, what about, what about your body makes you think you could take them? Is there something, something about you that [00:28:00] makes you different? Are you how? I'm six foot five. Oh oh, okay. I've never mentioned that before. Online. Shocking. Yeah. No, but that's real. That's real. But it is, it is real. Yeah. Like I, I have, I am able to navigate spaces and even Sure.

With the, like I said, the, I want to be very clear and not comparing myself to Chapel Road. Mm-Hmm. , uh, at all. But even in this pseudo celebrity space of this, uh, that I'm in, I, I still. No matter what happens, no matter who approaches me, I still, I'm constantly have that privilege still of my lived experience of the body that I'm navigating this world in, and that changes that even if I was to get bigger, even if I was to get more famous, even if I was to have people, more people approaching me, that's still going to exist.

And that still changes the way, uh, it doesn't give people permission. It doesn't mean people touch, but I do notice that when people approach me, they are much more hesitant to. To touch me, um, versus when I see other people at the same level as [00:29:00] myself, I see people immediately put their arm around me, literally hug, kiss, like, I mean, kiss on the cheek.

God, sometimes I want to kiss, kiss, like, oh, and like, I've had the same thing. I remember being on an I've only been recognized a couple of times, but, uh, I was on an airplane once and, uh, it was, this is from my other page, my mom content. And she just really casually was like, Hey, just want to let you know, I love your videos.

And then I was like, which, which one? Cause that's two different vibes. Uh, like what page? And she's like, really love your videos. Great. And then another, I was at the zoo one time and I got same thing, but it was like, they didn't, They weren't rude, they weren't overbearing, but I remember both those times I was with my daughter.

And I don't show her face, I don't say her name, I don't feature her at all. I'm not comfortable with that. And like, I think about the difference between me and me and my family, just like Chapel is talking about her family as well. It's like, I [00:30:00] wouldn't be comfortable if someone took a picture of my child and put it up somewhere.

That would really upset me. I'd be furious if something like that happened. Well, truly, but that could happen because people just like, there are things you don't want to share. And like, that's one of them. And like, you know, I, the people that I've run into anytime someone's recognized, we have been super respectful and awesome.

Um, so I don't have, I don't have a bad experience, I guess. But like, I think about that. Like, when I was, they could have taken a photo of me and my child. Like, I don't know. And, and that's scary. Like, it's like, it's not just you. It's, it's your whole life. And like, I just, I guess I don't understand like, why, like what makes them think they have the right to do that?

It's the, the curse of social media too. And I think it's the, the reason, At least I think we're, we're bringing up our own experiences though, is that it's still, even for us at this small percentage of it, it's, it can be hard. So I can't even fathom what someone at [00:31:00] Chapel's level is. Um, but I think because of, and Chapel's, you know, she makes TikToks, right?

She's before she, there, there's stuff of her talking. And I think people start to, and this happens to content creators all the time where people forget it. That they're strangers, right? They're it's different. I'm you're not like musician X who I've only ever heard their music. You're my friend who makes music, right?

You're my, you're someone who I have a deeper understanding of who makes it. It was okay for me to treat you that way. Cause we, right. We go back. We, we, we have that relationship. Like you're talking to me when you're making videos. You're talking to me on stage when you have that viral clip, you're talking to me through your music.

And it's like, it's beautiful from a separation standpoint. And she is so open and accepting. And she is so supportive that's used against her almost. You know what I mean? It's like. Because she's so open and honest and gives so much, you want her to give more and expect her to give more? Like, both [00:32:00] can be true.

She can be a wonderful artist. You don't really know anything about her other than, like, there's some probably facts that you could know about her, but like, you know what she presents, and you know what you feel about her from seeing her, but like, you don't know her, and to, to assume that you should have, be able to have that type of intimacy that you wouldn't really have with any other stranger on the planet.

She can be the wonderful person you think and still not want strangers to touch her, stalk her. And I can imagine for her, it would be difficult as someone who's skyrocketed because she probably still sees it as stalking, which it is. It is stalking, but like stars, they're allowed to be stopped.

Everyone's like tiniest violin in the world for, for stars. But, um, I really do feel like, That part is really scary to me, especially for women. It seems like the stalking part is, is intense for them. Uh, and the critique is intense and I think it would be so hard for her. Cause she could go to the cops, like, and how seriously do they [00:33:00] take her?

Because she's like, this person showed up at my house. This person is posting my location to millions of be whatever amount of people on social media. And they'll probably be like, well, you're a star. Yeah, but like, you know, a couple months ago had she done that she'd probably get a restraining order So when I'll go whenever I meet and I've talked we've talked about this a little bit before I don't know if I was appreciative or not But i've met some like people that are are crossing over from being content creators into celebrity status Right where they're where they're at that that much larger level where i've had bad experiences with right where they have kind of Like, you know, and I try uh, and it's hard at first when someone who you do Like Just kind of brushes you off, but you also have to like walk away thinking I don't know what they've been through that day Sure I don't know if I was the 20th person that they're just trying to get a cup of coffee and That's taking them 30.

Maybe I took up the bathroom, you know, right million things that going I don't know what happened in there [00:34:00] their real life. I don't like even As a, as a creating content when I'm having a rough week, when something's going wrong, if there's a health issue and I still have to put on that face on, I still, at least that's just online.

I still get my regular life where I can be sad or I can be alone and I can go do those sorts of things to give that up. Um, and to judge, I think that's the key you were getting at is to judge someone for the interaction without. Even trying to imagine what it's like to exist in that space. Um, is, and yeah, there, of course she has extra privileges.

Now she's making a lot of money. She has all sorts of fame that, of course, there are positive things that come along with it as well. Um, but that doesn't mean that there's no contract that says, okay, in order for fame, I'm going to give up everything. It just kind of happens. And there's millions of musicians right now that, Would some of them would love that, but many would be like, Oh, if I had to give up, uh, if, if my [00:35:00] choice was to continue making this art that I love, but it meant having to give up everything else I love, they'd probably give up that art in a lot of ways.

And that shouldn't be the choice you have to make. And I also think there's a difference between. Like I, I am not comfortable with being harassed and I'm not comfortable with strangers coming up to me. Like I, I would like to interact with my fans on my own terms. Mm-Hmm. and I'm an asshole to my fans.

Mm-Hmm. Those are not the same thing. And I think pretending they are is not accurate. Like, do you remember there's a time when like Justin Bieber, like was spitting on people. Mm-Hmm. and um, you know, there was like, uh, I remember Ariana Grande. There was that case where she was like in the donut shop and she like licked all the donuts and like it's just it's just petty Bullshit that you shouldn't do to other people like stuff like that.

You know, I mean like that's That's just not kind like you're not being kind to people. You don't need to disrespect your fans That to me is much [00:36:00] different than somebody saying like hey I I don't want you to stalk me. I don't want you to show up places I don't want you to approach me if it's not the correct setting like that that is my boundary like that is I don't, I don't like that.

That makes me uncomfortable. Those are two different things. And I think she is absolutely justified to have boundaries with for how she wants strangers in mass to interact with her. And I think this is, I'm hoping that this inspires more discussions about the difference between someone being an asshole versus someone just wanting space.

Like there was, uh, I'll give another example of, uh, there was a poet that I, um, Well, he was on like deaf poetry jam on HBO. Um, I had performed one of his pieces in speech and debate competition. Like I was huge fan. I made a video about this a while back online. Uh, but huge. I was like, that was the person that I.

I thought they were the great. And I saw them. I was at my first nationals, uh, as a team member. I was like, Oh, cool. I'm like one of them now, so [00:37:00] I can go, I can go talk to him. And I went up and introduced myself and I, and about like what their, their work meant to me. And he looks at me and he goes, I could keep talking to you right now.

But you see that. Girl over there with the, you referenced her chest, uh, he was like, no, if I go over there, I could probably go back to her room later. So I'm going to go. He said something. I don't remember. I remember the exact, but it was something like that to me, basically. So I'm going to go over there.

And I, and I walked away and I remember just standing there in shock because The persona also of this person was of this really kind and genuine, amazing person. And I found out later on that that's kind of the, the person I saw is actually who they are. They did a lot of really heinous stuff. Um, but that was the, that, that interaction was like, Oh, that's something I'm allowed to be upset about.

Right. And people can be upset. People are allowed to be upset, feel their feelings as well. I don't want to say no one's not allowed, but to hold it against somebody. There [00:38:00] was, there was a, to use an example, there's another content creator who I walked up to. We were at a behind the scenes kind of thing where only creators were allowed.

And I talked to them, they're like, okay. And they just walked away. And I was like, they're, they must be busy. They, they absolutely brushed me off, but I was like, they have stuff to do. I don't have the right to their time. Right. Right. In, in, even in a situation where it was. People that were where I'm technically in that club, even though I'm a minor member of that club, right?

It still doesn't mean I have the right to their, their space and their time. They're still allowed to walk away. And I think people need to really understand the difference between someone being an actual asshole and someone just needing space. Yeah, and again, like, this is the culmination of a lot of her experiences, and she's been having a lot of bad ones.

And to your point, like, when someone approaches her, like, she doesn't know, are they a normal person? Are they a stalker? Have they been putting my photo out there? Are they gonna [00:39:00] harass me? Are they gonna Because, like, fan interactions, like, you don't know what they're gonna say. Like, I have been shocked at some stories.

Okay, so, so, trigger warning on this one. I'm not going to say anything terrible, but like you've heard of uh, Natalie Portman's first really bad experience. Did I tell you this? I feel like I told you this. Um, you thought you might've Yeah. Uh, whatever. It's, you're always a gr you're a captive audience always.

So like, yeah. I You'll give me a great reaction regardless. Yeah. Um, like, you haven't heard it. Um, so she was in Leon, the Professional when she was young, which was, uh, a movie about a hit man. And she, she, I, I forget. I mean, she was young, young. She was a child. Um, and it blew up. It did really good. Mm-Hmm.

And she got her first piece of fan mail and she opened it. And she read a graphic, uh, essay, fanf Fantasy that an adult man had written her and that was her very first like fan letter that he'd somehow [00:40:00] gotten her address That was from a supposed fan and she was a child This is a man like I get bad things from bat like people that don't like me but there's also people that like you that'll say crazy shit to you and so you have to remember like a lot of, especially if they're women, um, they're not always getting like, Oh, I really respect your work.

You know, I really love your song. They might be getting graphic things said to them, you know, and she's saying that she's been receiving lots of crazy stuff. And it's like, so, you know, you know, maybe you feel like she's being quote unquote rude to you. But I think it's important to acknowledge, and this can be true of anybody, not just celebrities, but like, you don't know what's going on in their life, and you can be upset, maybe, with the way that they speak to you, but it is important to maybe think about what is going on, like, what have they been facing, On a, on a grander scale, you know, that has led to this.

[00:41:00] So the anger from it is just a repackaged version of she was asking for it. Right. Or she clearly, she wouldn't, she wouldn't be a celebrity if she didn't want this. Right. Or like, oh, she wouldn't dress that way if she didn't want to be hit on. Right. It's those, it's literally that same mentality. So close to that.

Yeah, where it's like, oh, you, she, you clearly you're lying. You're just, you're just bad. You're just mean. You couldn't possibly have ever pursued this if you didn't actually want this to be your life. That's the real answer is that you're just a meanie, right? Using the nicest possible words. Good at it. Um, yeah, it's censoring, I guess.

Um, it's like, you just got to think about like, okay, so if you like going up to her in real life, like. If, if this was you, like, how would you feel? Like, if you became famous out of nowhere, and all of a sudden you're getting stalked, you're getting harassed, like, do you think you might be a little bit crabby?

Do [00:42:00] you think you might be a little bit scared of people coming up to you? Do you think you might be getting frustrated because you keep telling people you don't like this type of interaction, and they keep doing it? Do, can you see that? And then do you recognize that what you're essentially saying is like, I don't like that she's saying no to me.

I have the right to her body and her time. She doesn't get to say no because she's, she makes music. I like, like, that's the idea is I like her. So she can't say no to me. What does that sound like? Like, you really have to look at it that way because again, she's not signed any contract. Like she, the contract that she has signed is if you buy my, if you pay for a ticket for me, I will, I will be at that show and I will give you a free ticket.

the best show you've ever seen, you know, she's a great performer. Um, and I will make great music and I like, that is, that is what she's offering. She's not saying I will give you every bit of my time. Every bit you can, you can, you [00:43:00] can own my schedule. You can show up whenever you want. You can take my photo.

Like that's, that's just not the exchange. This also, like, just happened, right? She, like, the, the, the, like, when you talk to this right at the very beginning, the, the, the speed that her star has risen is absurd, right? Within, you go back six months ago, even. Not even less than that, even, probably. And most people wouldn't even know who you're talking about unless you were just in that very niche audience that a founder of starting to, and she's gotten to the point of superstardom really, uh, especially to at least for, uh, Her target audience, at least, um, where it's, it's, she hasn't learned how to handle this.

She hasn't had the training for it and the experience of it. And it's not saying it'll, it's ever okay, but give her some grace as a 26 year old. artist who six months ago was still just hoping she'd be able to make [00:44:00] another album one day or, you know, that was in a position where she was not going to be necessarily going to be on this, on this verge of superstardom.

Her album will be number two in the world, which should have been number one. That's a whole nother argument. That was not Taylor Swift bashing, by the way, I want to be very clear. Please don't come for us. I love Taylor Swift. My daughter's Taylor Swift for Halloween. That could very easily have been interpreted that way.

I want to make sure to nip that in the bud. Everyone's scared. The Swifties. The Swifties will not come after me. I like Taylor Swift. Okay. Okay. But, um, oh shit. That, the Swifties. Sorry. The fear of Swifties threw me off. Um, we also have a habit of building up women and then destroying them. And The other thing is like, the toll it takes on people to constantly be on, I think, like, even me, just like, in my everyday life, like, when I, you know, I'm a people pleaser, you and I talk about this, we just talked about it on the Patreon, but, like, I, I turn it on [00:45:00] around other people, and it's, it's, it's tiring, but I, that's, that's how I live my life, I don't know how to, like, not perform with certain groups of people, right?

And so, Like you think about like requiring someone to constantly be on is so detrimental to them Like it's not like that is a lot like she has to act she's telling you I don't want to do this You're saying she should have to okay. Well, then you're asking her to Push past what makes her comfortable.

You're asking her to be actively uncomfortable with a smile. That's what you're asking her to do. And you look at like Britney Spears, for example, who was absolutely put through the machine and built up and then destroyed. And she constantly was faking it. And it was bad for her mental health. And people started taking advantage of her because she was America's sweetheart.

And she was expected to smile and dance through all of her trials and tribulations. And like, that wasn't good for her. And we have said like, Oh, we would never do that again. And now, I'm not saying they're equivalent, but I am saying there's a [00:46:00] young woman who's rising to stardom who is wanting boundaries in space and to take care of her mental health and people are doing it again and being like, oh, how dare you?

Like, do you guys not see the reoccurring pattern of this? Like, we build a woman up and then like, we decide, no, we're gonna destroy you. Like, it's not okay. It's not okay to do that. It's like, it really asks yourself, do you like Chapel Roan? Do you want to see more Chapel Roan in the future? Stop making her hate being Chapel Roan, right?

Don't make her despise this thing that you love. And that she clearly loves too. Let her just exist as a human in this world without expecting also be, uh, to, to be an object. Don't objectify her into something where, and without forgetting her humanity and that she is a person that she also deserves consent over her own body and her own space.[00:47:00]

She does not give up simply because her album is awesome. Why is that so controversial? That shouldn't be a controversy. No, it's not. It shouldn't be a hot take. Yeah, I, I, I totally agree with you. And it, like, it just brings to mind, like people not quite getting like what it is to truly like love and care, like, If you love and care about someone and what they create like Something gets lost in translation when somebody's a star or somebody is Any type of parasocial relationship.

I I feel like their humanity gets lost in like Like, clearly, things that you would know in a, you know, personal relationship in your everyday life, things that you would just know is truth there, get lost when it's parasocial. It's like, if you care about a person, and they say, I don't like this thing, this thing you're doing is making me uncomfortable, it makes me want to stop doing the thing that you like me [00:48:00] for.

It makes me want to stop ever doing it. Mm hmm. To care about that person is to then stop doing that. Like that's simple in your everyday life. You know that if your friend was like, Hey, when you punch me in the arm, I really don't like that. Please stop. You wouldn't be like, we're friends. I have the right to punch you in the arm.

Yeah. You know what you signed up for with this friendship. There was a distinct arm punch clause that was, you know, completely not spoken, but definitely there. Contextually, it was there. Yeah, that's that's what it feels like and it's like, I think it's true. I mean, it's definitely true of parasocial relationships, but it does, it does apply to other aspects of life.

It's like, people aren't there to show up for you in the way that you want them to, you know? Like, that's one of the hard parts of loving someone is they show up how they can and like, She does show up on stage. She does show up, you know for like with the music She brings to the table like she does say supportive things to people and means them [00:49:00] seemingly It's just that she doesn't want to show up in that way in that area It makes her uncomfortable and like that's a fact of life in relationships.

Like there may be like Things where somebody's just not comfortable doing something and it's not okay to push them past that just because you want it I mean, it's literally just well, I want it like that's it. That's the only argument I want it so it should happen like that's do you and like she said like with no no care concern at all for the fact she doesn't I think that's a very risky risky uh thought process and ideology there and I think we need to if you feel that way I would really reflect on why you feel that way and what makes you think you know you have the right to kind of treat her that way and again like looking at it in your everyday life and if you really care about her you Why would you not listen to what she's saying she's uncomfortable with if you really care about [00:50:00] also the Type of of these structural things that are going on Why are you why do you have exceptions when it right to you?

And that's exactly that's honestly the Explanation for most of the terrible things in our society, right? Yeah, well, it's not it's fine when I do it Because I'm not I'm not the bad. I have a good reason I have a good reason. My reason is always the reason is always justified. And that's why you have to separate yourself as best as you can, as best as anyone can, uh, and, and think about what is, what is ultimately what you believe about the world and if it, if it goes against what your actions are, that's on you, that's not on them to fix it.

Well, it's definitely reading like nice guy behavior, right? Hashtag at the nice guy podcast. Um, no, but really because it's like. I think people think that because they have a good intention, because they love her, they like, well, I don't have any bad intention going up to her, you know, and [00:51:00] it's like, yeah, but she doesn't know that.

And even if you do have good intention, that doesn't change the impact of what you're doing. And I think that's, that's like the nice guy mentality. Well, I just want to compliment her. I just want to tell her she has a nice ass. That's all. Like, well, excuse me. And it's like, yeah, um, she doesn't want that.

So, if you would not do this to her as an everyday person, then, um, maybe you shouldn't do it to her. Now, if you have, if you have strong beliefs as to why that's a problem in everyday life, it should still apply to her. She shouldn't lose, like, the privilege of, like, decency because she's a star. Mm hmm.

Just because she happens to be really good at this thing. Right. It seems like musician, it seems like, huh? Yeah. Uh, it seems like with musicians, it happens, uh, more than, than a lot of others and a lot of, I'm sure, and that's not the celebrity in general, obviously, it happens to. But first, I think because of the [00:52:00] emotion that we put into music and the connection that we have with music, um, I think it does elevate them to a level where, uh, that's different than a lot, you know, she's not going to be Keanu Reeves, Keanu Reeves rides the subway, right.

You know, and, and no one is, and he's a huge, everyone knows who Keanu Reeves is. Uh, but if he was a musician, he probably wouldn't, you know, be in that same way. There, there probably would be a different level. Well, I mean, pink. One of her concerts, it was handed a bag and she was like, Oh, what is this? And then for good, they said it was something like, it's my mom.

They had handed her ashes. And she was like, Oh, you keep this. I don't know how she feels about that, but I'm like, there is a like you got to You can't like you just can't be you have to figure out some Like as much as you love them, like it's so one sided and there's such there's an expectation for them to [00:53:00] To give you back that emotional depth that they put in their music and it's like you are enjoying them and i'm sure they're glad you you do and i'm sure they're glad you show up but like There's got to be some level of like boundaries, especially with like, I just feel like it happens more to women and musicians definitely, but I feel like women get some weird, weird behavior.

And, um, yeah, people have to be able to have boundaries. If we as a whole condemn her for not wanting to be touched and harassed, what does that say to our society? And what does that tell women as a whole? It's a great, great note. Thank you so much. We nailed it. I think we did. I think we, I don't know. I don't know.

You, you were great. You were great. Everyone was great. I'll give you one last little, uh, kind of note on that about to the expectation of time that people have. Cause we've, you've talked about that before where, where men will come into your comment sections also and expect you to be their therapist.[00:54:00]

Someone, uh, messaged me the other day about one of my videos. This was not a fan, uh, that, uh, he, uh, he disagreed with it. And he was like, I, he was like, you have to admit that's a bad argument you made in that video. And I responded, I was like, look, Hey, my videos aren't for everybody. I, it was, it was quickly.

It was like, I gave him a quick response. Like my videos aren't for everybody. I'm sorry. You didn't resonate with you. Have a good day. And he was like, no, you need to break down and tell me, I want you to explain blah, blah, blah. And my response was, I probably shouldn't have responded again, but I was like, look, I don't owe you my time.

If you want to, if you would like to pay me to break down my argument, explain it better for you. Sure. Hire me that way. I don't owe you a, a listed breakdown of my argument so that it makes more sense to you so that you can walk away. Cause you're not going to, you don't want it anyways. Right, right, right, right.

But it's that expectation where he wrote back this really angry message that I had the audacity to say, I don't owe you [00:55:00] my time. And that exact same, and nobody does. Yeah, I mean, time is precious. It's like the most precious commodity. Truly. And like, You know, especially for someone who's a performer, their downtime is precious to them.

Their family time is, I hope, you know, I don't know, but I would assume is precious to them. The times that they get to be a person and not, you know, a product, which unfortunately so many artists become, that's precious. And you just don't have the right to take that from them. And again, it's taking, you're taking it from them.

If you rush somebody without consent and like, Which happens all the time. I mean, you see videos of it. It's like you are taking their time. You are forcing them. And that's not cool. It's not cool to anybody. I don't like it in my real life, like my personal life. Like, yeah, when people argue with me, like, I told you the one guy who was in my comment section, like, So women are cowards and blah blah blah and it's like people will say things that I feel [00:56:00] like I can't leave unchecked And going back and forth to me It's like I I don't I don't know if I can trust you like just demanding like me prove myself So he can yell at me like I don't have to do that I don't owe you that and it's like their expectation is that you will that you'll argue with them that you'll prove your point I'm like, I don't know I posted a video about a stupid shit.

Like I posted a funny thing I thought was interesting. I didn't like this guy being a jerk online. You don't then get to take, you know, 20 minutes of my time arguing back and forth with you when I know it's going nowhere. Like, sorry, I don't have to do that. And I think thinking you are owed time from a stranger is, is truly bizarre.

And she said it it's weird. It's weird, weird. That's the biggest word. Weird. You know what? That is the sum of it. Weird behavior. It's weird behavior. If you wouldn't want someone to do it to you. Right. Why is it the exception for them? Right. [00:57:00] Agreed. Weird, weird behavior. Don't be weird. Don't be weirdos. Okay, just don't be weirdos.

But you should listen to, if you don't, if you're listening to this and haven't heard Chapel's album, you should. You gotta go now! It really is great. That is how she wants to speak to you. Okay. Yeah. My four year old, I've been playing it all the time and I lower, I forget that it's on because I listened to it.

So it is my current earworm. I just, I get it right now. Um, and I forget that it was on in my four year old. I picked her up from school and, uh, she calls all music Taylor Swift. Uh, cause she really likes chapel. She's like, Oh, put Taylor Swift on. Uh, but she wanted, Chapel Rose album, but I forgot what song was playing.

And so, and it was low enough that I didn't think it was that big of a deal. But all of a sudden I hear her walking around home, touch me, baby, touch me, baby. And I was trying not to respond because I didn't want her. I was like, if I make a reaction, then she's going to keep on saying that over and over.

And so. So yeah, be forewarned. Maybe don't listen to all of [00:58:00] Chapel's songs around your children. NSFW. Not safe for work. Not safe for children. But amazing. But so good. But so good. Emotionally gut wrenching. Like, ugh. All right, friends. Well, thank you for joining us today. Uh, we've mentioned it a couple of times, but make sure to join the Patreon.

We have our pre show that we do every single week, which Chesco said is the best show of the two shows. True. Debatable. Last couple of weeks, including this week, it's been very unhinged. We are sharing weight. It has literally become some, uh, friend therapy every single week and we just Yeah, it's, it's a, yeah, it's a lot.

It's chaos. Uh, but if you like chaos and way too much information about either of us, uh, go ahead and check that out. Uh, check out our socials, uh, on our YouTube. And that's, that's it, right? Nothing else to report? All right. Well, we'll see you next week. Bye. Bye. I didn't do it. I didn't say I love [00:59:00] you.