Camden Bernatz (00:00:02) - Welcome to brands and campaigns, the stories and people behind clever marketing moves powered by EKR. I'm your host, Camden Bernatz, creative director and head of brand strategy at EKR. Welcome back to Brands and Campaigns. We're here with Corey Ostler again. He's been on the podcast before, but it's been a little while. Art director and designer extraordinaire here at EKR. Corey, welcome back.
Corey Ostler (00:00:28) - Thank you very much. Good to be back.
Camden Bernatz (00:00:29) - We've missed your wisdom and wit. And for those watching the video, good looks as well. No glasses today though. He's contacts only for us so we could see all those those beautiful eyes. Okay with that weird intro. So Corey is here today to talk about a reaction and take aways from the conversation previously with Jonathon Spalding from Cornett and the A&W Free Root Beer campaign for Root Beer for centenarians, I should specify not for everybody. There was a lot of, good topics we talked about with Jonathon, and Corey and I have kind of reviewed that conversation. They're going to see what we can do as far as takeaways and what what insights you might gain from that and any other follow up things you want to chase that we're starting with Jonathon and his conversation.
Camden Bernatz (00:01:15) - So again, Corey, thanks for being here. As you looked at this campaign, not only the conversation I have with Jonathon, but the work itself. What, is there anything that kind of stood out as kind of a main takeaway or main thing you want to make sure we're talking about or learning about in this episode today?
Corey Ostler (00:01:33) - one of the main things that stood out to me on this was sort of where the idea came from and, and a concept that they have that, I mean, we, you know, we do this at our agency, and I know other agencies have different philosophies on this, but it was an interesting take of he mentioned that if you know the client, then you know the brief basically, which, you know, I get what he's intuiting there. We sort of take that a different direction sometimes, or like I guess feel hampered by, you know, like, hey, like I really need to get the main insights from, you know, either our research or the client themselves.
Corey Ostler (00:02:07) - And I'm assuming he still, you know, they still have like some research or main insights that someone's condensed down into something. But that was an interesting take of just like, hey, if you know this client and you know who they are, then you basically have your brief and then the ideas stem from there. You don't need some special, specific insight. And so I thought it was interesting that they, you know, came up with this campaign mostly based on that of like, hey, we we understand the personality of the brand. We know who they are. And in light of that, how are we going to celebrate? You know, maybe we can celebrate this milestone. And then in all, in the goal of, you know, whatever the call to action was, which I think was a surprising twist of like signing people up for a rewards program or something, but also, I assume, general brand awareness and getting talked about. He mentioned a few times, like if you're not getting it talked about, then an own media wouldn't necessarily be considered successful.
Corey Ostler (00:02:59) - So that's kind of one of my main takeaways.
Camden Bernatz (00:03:01) - Yeah. Good place to start. Let's talk about the brief for a minute because yeah, what he mentioned stood out to me as well as being interesting. If you know the client, you know the brief. And I think that that's and I'm putting words in Jonathon's mouth a little bit here to extend that thought. But I think what he was probably referring to is when the personality and tone and like the yeah, the branded element of executing on the brief, I think, yeah. If you know your client, you know how they sound, you know how they should come across, you know what's not on brand, what is on brand. But I would think maybe is not necessarily inherently known, even if you know the client really well is the strategy portion of the brief. You may you need to decide what objective are we going after or what is success look like? Or why are we doing this campaign. And that would depend if it's like something the client is coming to you and saying, I need XYZ to happen.
Camden Bernatz (00:03:52) - Or if you're just pitching a new idea. Hey, let's refresh next year's creative in some way. Here's a way we can do that. And I've kind of gone back and forth internally, and I'm curious what you if you have any insight on this, Corey, is I've tried to go back and forth on who should be basically putting together the brief, because I think it kind of depends is my current standing kind of depends on who is who is requesting the work or suggesting the work. I should say where if you have if we as an agency are working with a client and we say, hey, here's a great opportunity, we want to do this thing for this reason, or to go after this market or to change this perception or whatever. And we're kind of presenting the strategy. We put the brief together and say, hey, client, how does this look? You go with this, we're going to execute on this. But sometimes the client will have a suggestion and say, I need, I need these things to happen, and I want it to do this thing and to go after this market or to reach this, to have this voice or whatever.
Camden Bernatz (00:04:47) - And they kind of have a lot of the brief in place before, and it's our job to act on it, I guess the short answer is it should be collaborative, right? No one should just hand something over and not have a have some thinking on it. But what what are your thoughts on that? Like who who puts together the brief and what do you think about the strategy versus the brand personality element of it?
Corey Ostler (00:05:05) - Yeah, as far as who puts it together, I mean, I would say it should be kind of a conglomeration of the client, whatever, whoever is leading the strategy. If there is, you know, some agencies have a dedicated strategist and then consulting with the creative team just to make sure that they have the information that they need. But the, you know, if the creative team sometimes is on the strategy side of it. So they might have a little bit of input onto there. But ultimately, ideally, I guess we would say is if the client comes to an agency and says, I have this goal or this intention or this audience I want to address or market to, then they would have a little bit of insight into that.
Corey Ostler (00:05:46) - Or they can just say, you know, and we don't have, you know, or tell us what they need from that. Again, I need some insight into that. I don't know how to market to these people, so we need your suggestions there. So like you said, sort of a collaboration between them and whoever is leading the strategy as opposed to account managers, if they are involved in strategy to a degree, I would say that they could have input there, but that's more of like just basic information as opposed to like guiding the strategy itself. So, you know, they could gather stuff like who is this client, what's their basic thing? But ultimately their job is to be a liaison and not necessarily the one guiding that at least I know each agency does it differently. But like, that's the ideal in my understanding.
Camden Bernatz (00:06:28) - Yeah. So Jonathon was talking about how you don't necessarily, in this case with the A&W campaign and having worked with them, they didn't necessarily need a whole lot of hand-holding and showing what, how to come across.
Camden Bernatz (00:06:39) - And so, like you said, if you know your brand, you know the brief, I think, yeah, again, I'm kind of I'm paraphrasing what I think he would mean by that. But it's you know, how to you know how to execute, but you still need to know what your strategy is. So still, still making a plug for the importance of making creative briefs, I guess I would say is yes. No. You're, you know, live and breathe your, your client's personality and tone and brand and voice, but one, they may be new to you if it's a new account too, you may have a new person on the team who hasn't been that familiar with the brand. And like, it's, you know, a creative brief is still good. And so at least it's that's the the hill I'm planting my flag on at this point.
Corey Ostler (00:07:16) - Well, I think so too, because for a creative person at least, the there's a double edged sword to like, I think a lot of clients or even, you know, people on the account side sometimes think like, hey, you have complete creative freedom.
Corey Ostler (00:07:28) - And that should be so refreshing to you. And it can be, but also without any parameters to work within. It actually is like a almost paralyzing task to attack. Like, okay, literally anything can happen. But if I don't know, you know, if I don't have a goal in mind, then it's impossible to know whether I'm just doing something fun that I think is cool, or whether it actually accomplishes anything. So I think as long as there's a goal and then a brand that's bare minimum to know, like, okay, so I can use my entire toolbelt of creativity to try to accomplish this task or appeal to this audience. As long as I know that, I think, you know, a minimal brief is still acceptable.
Camden Bernatz (00:08:07) - And this is kind of a slightly off topic, but thinking about creative briefs, this is my little like, I don't it's not a rant. I'm not passionate about this, but just a little thought, I guess for the industry is I think we need to be careful about not getting too focused on on brand, on brand, on brand, that what we see as the brand gets too narrowed down to one specific thing or one specific trait.
Camden Bernatz (00:08:31) - Yes, you should have kind of a home base when it comes to your tone and personality, your visual style, the messages. I'm all I'm. I work on brands. I'm all for having having consistent branding. But there are you should be flexible and nimble and human as a brand to where there may be a situation that you do something that's different than what you've been doing and doesn't necessarily go against the brand, quote unquote, or break the brand to where I mean, this is a random on the spot example. I know this is if this is the best example or not, but that's what I thought of first, one of the most talked about, you know, brand tones and voice was like Wendy's and their Twitter. Right. And they would roast people on Twitter. That was happening for a while, and that got a lot of buzz. I don't think Wendy's thinks, okay, every single piece of creative we have to come out now has to be snarky and roasting people and kind of that, that, you know, sarcastic or passive aggressive because you lay it on too thick, it gets too old or vice versa.
Camden Bernatz (00:09:30) - You don't have if your brand is not that way, it doesn't mean you can never be funny or never do something that is. And so it takes it takes skill and knowing the brand. And I guess, sorry, my soapbox is over. You can respond to this if you have anything or you can move on. But just to summarize that, like have your home base, have your brand figured out, but have it be understand how am I to react to different things in the moment? How how are we going to sound when we're happy? When we're when something bad happens, when we're responding to something local versus global, like you need to if your brand is good, if your brand strategy is good, it should be flexible enough that you can bend without breaking, if that makes sense. Your brand. Easier said than done. But that's my little soapbox moment on brand strategy.
Corey Ostler (00:10:12) - Well, I think you have. You have a good example there in like a Wendy's, for example. Because you're right, not all their advertising is like as snarky as what they might perform on Twitter.
Corey Ostler (00:10:20) - And I think they did do a few things like that on Twitter where it was pretty consistent, like, hey, this is our voice on Twitter. We're going to be, you know, this snarky kind of roast but tongue in cheek type of brand as opposed to, like, they also have ads that are, you know, appeal to a different audience. And so as with everything, as long as you're as long as you know who you're appealing to and it's not just a mystery. I mean, I you know, not that you can't take a creative risk now and then, but like, as long as you kind of know what you're doing there, I think that's okay. Also, that made me think of sort of a I don't have the exact quote, but the idea of like what Picasso did, he's, you know, famous for his Cubism, like really out there, avant garde, almost art style that really pushed things when in his generation. But like, the guy knew how to paint photo realistically.
Corey Ostler (00:11:04) - He knew all the rules. He knew what generally was accepted out there in art. But he said, you know what? I'm gonna stand out from that. And, you know, that's maybe not exactly a 1 to 1 comparison, because you could say, well, that became his brand and he was out there doing that. But I think you can even do that within your own brand and be like, hey, like, normally we're going to be like this, but we know the rules. We know that this is not the norm. And so as long as you're aware, like as long as you know the rules that you're breaking and why you're breaking them, I think that's a good you know, it's a way to stand out or at least break it up because like, yeah, if a super serious brand is suddenly making like a really tongue in cheek ad like it is going to stand out, you just want to make sure that, yeah, you know, that you're doing that with the full knowledge of like, I know the kind of reaction this is going to get.
Corey Ostler (00:11:50) - And that's what I want.
Camden Bernatz (00:11:51) - Your brand is what you're most consistent about. Not no, no. One specific piece of creative or an ad or a billboard or a promotion is going to be defining of your brand. It's what you do it. It's what home base is, right? And so you might expect you might try different things and say, hey, that worked really well. Let's do more of that. And over time that becomes a core aspect of your brand or or something you adapt into. But you've got to be flexible. So okay, good stuff on that. Let's talk about the A&W creative specific, obviously some humorous kind of unexpected settings for these elderly people you don't usually see wearing these, you know, silly sunglasses, partying in with balloons and, and music in a restaurant and whatnot. One thing that stood out. Nothing related to branding necessarily, but I thought about is what a stereotypical old person is is changes generationally, right? Like to us, it's kind of funny to see this older guy saying, oh, it's root beer is gas.
Camden Bernatz (00:12:51) - And, and you know, the, the what's her name? Barry Winkle, the female. The older female. That's the influencer, you know, calling herself a baddie. Like that's kind of funny. But that's how youth talk like 100 years from now. Old guys saying that something is gas, it's not going to be funny. That's just how they talk. And they'll have like, gauged ears and tattoos and like, you know, the things, things that you don't see in old people that our generation looks at old people when we're old people or younger than us or old people, it's going to change, right? Unless you magically just, like, start wearing old sweaters and having your hair a certain style, like when you get old. Or is that am I? Am I right in thinking that old people are going to look different 100 years from now?
Corey Ostler (00:13:31) - No, I think you're right because I you know, I hear stories about, like my grandparents, grandparents and stuff like that. And I'm sure, you know, maybe there was more consistency up until like now that my parents are they are grandparents and getting their like, they don't look like my grandparents did.
Corey Ostler (00:13:45) - They're different. Like, yeah, what am I going to be like then? Like, not the I have a bunch of tattoos and stuff, but a lot of people in my generation do, so that would be interesting to see. But I think that is another example. Like again, knowing, you know, what it is that they're appealing to. So it's like, yeah, old people don't do this normally. And so that's why like, hey, this stands out because like it is like it's it's humorous and we know who we're appealing to because like, we're probably at least what he was saying, like, you know, the target audience probably wasn't 100 year old plus people, even though that's who they're sort of promoting to. It is still a younger audience. And they're like, how do you appeal to them? Like, take this thing that doesn't normally appeal to them and have it appeal to them and just something cool like, hey, it's been around a long time. Yep.
Camden Bernatz (00:14:22) - Yeah.
Camden Bernatz (00:14:22) - It it bless their hearts. I talked to Jonathon about how how many cuts are in this video. You can tell they weren't delivering long full lines. It was like a couple words cut. I just imagined that getting, you know, memorizing scripts and getting this, this young person lingo out and stuff probably took some, some multiple takes. But that's part of the fun and they've earned it. They don't need to be, you know, perfect with their scripts. They just get free root beer. What do you feel like? And I talked to Jonathon about this in our conversation. I want to know what your take is. There is potentially and I don't I don't feel this is a problem, but just playing devil's advocate, there could be as you were, as you were getting this work done and approved behind the scenes before it launched. There could be a fear that like, is it kind of being insensitive that we're saying, oh, once you get 100 years old, you get free root beer for life, implying that it's kind of funny because there isn't much of your life left.
Camden Bernatz (00:15:14) - Like it's like hardly anybody lives that long. And if they do, they don't have much time left that could be seen as like in poor taste. I don't think it is. But like, what's I don't know. Do you agree with that or what's your reaction to that move.
Corey Ostler (00:15:26) - Yeah I have you know, I, I'm not like a stand up comedian or something. But I have like, you know, read about comedy and like, as opposed to, you know, like what? And in light of like advertising of like, okay, well it's when some like it has to be edgy in order to get attention because if it's just boring, you blend in, but you don't want to go over the top where it's like, well, now it's offensive. So it is a difficult line to skirt that. But I think at least the way that the comedy that I like is it's something that maybe no one is going to, you know, point out in just a normal conversation. And like, maybe it could be rude if you, like, said something like that.
Corey Ostler (00:16:01) - But everyone knows, like it's a fact. It's not like you're saying like, and you know, something offensive about old people, but you are saying, like, we all know that this is a fact. The old people know that, you know, older people know this as a fact. And so just kind of pointing it out tongue in cheek like that is like, you know, someone could always be offended by anything that you do, even like something way tamer than this. Yeah. But you if you're if like he said, if your goal is to make people talk about it and to stand out like you are going to have to run that risk just a little bit.
Camden Bernatz (00:16:30) - I think it needs follow up content. I don't know what their plans are, but I feel like because we talked about if centenarians are not necessarily the main target because one, there aren't that many of them, and two, it's not like they're out there driving a lot of conversation and social media and whatnot about anything that's happening in marketing or in brands.
Camden Bernatz (00:16:49) - You've got to keep it relevant. What I'm saying is they're not going to be redeeming this deal in mass numbers, that it keeps it active, like when back when McDonald's had like their monopoly. Remember where you play, but not McDonald's monopoly that was so prominent across every McDonald's experience during that time that everyone knew about it? You didn't have to necessarily keep promoting it and talking about it. This is something that if you want people to like, have this go and have legs to be long reaching, you need more content. That's kind of funny about older people redeeming this or looking forward to this. Like when they turn 100 or like and I guess maybe one point against what I'm saying is you don't. We talked about consistency and branding. Didn't want to be just the old person brand. I guess maybe that would be a reason not to do too much of this. As if it's like, oh, I only ever see old people associated with A&W. It's the Grandma and Grandpa brand. Maybe that's the reason not to.
Camden Bernatz (00:17:41) - I'm having a battle with myself in real time on this podcast, but I don't know. What do you think?
Corey Ostler (00:17:45) - Yeah, I think, and I've thought about that too. I'm like, because they're not necessarily appealing to old people, but they are like the reason they used old people's to appeal to whatever their audiences with the fact that, hey, we've been around a really long time. So like we're celebrating that in a fun kind of tongue in cheek way. So like, you know, even even if it does have the residual effect of like, hey, I can't wait till I'm 100 so I can get free root beer for life. Like that wasn't the goal of that. The goal was just to be like, hey, like that's true. At least in my understanding of like, hey, like maybe you haven't, like, this is a nostalgic brand. He mentioned that several times because, like the type of food that they have there, the stuff like it is kind of old Americana type of food.
Corey Ostler (00:18:21) - Like people still like it, but like, you know, the average person probably like, I want, I just want to go get a burger and I want to get some French fries. Like they're not that they are still like, you know, get some fried chicken, get some whatever. I can't remember what else he said, but it was like some stuff that you just don't get anywhere else. And so taking that uniqueness of the brand and then leaning into it, but still using the lingo from the younger audience, I think they still are saying, hey, we're nostalgic and you know who we are, but we're still relevant to you as the youth or whoever it is that they're appealing to. So the youth, the youth, you just maybe I'm an old man now. Well, no, it's like.
Camden Bernatz (00:18:55) - It's funny because nothing wrong with that. That's absolutely a correct statement to say. But just saying the youth makes you inherently sound like an old like not, you're not the youth. If you're saying the youth.
Corey Ostler (00:19:04) - I'm no longer youth.
Camden Bernatz (00:19:05) - Yeah, that's funny. I guess what I'm saying is I just feel like it would, I would be it's I think I'm, I think I've come over to the side of like, okay, never mind. It doesn't even necessarily be this ongoing thing because it was this kind of they're over 100 years old as a company, just kind of showing that nostalgic. It's a fun one off. But I guess what I'm saying is I would be bummed or I feel like it'd be missed if like ten years from now, there's people who are turning you hundred that are not knowing and redeeming this deal. If they're if they're serious, but actually making this a thing. It's not just a funny joke, but like, you can actually get free root beer once you're 100 years old. If people are not actually doing that, they're missing out on that. Not that that's going to be your entire brand or totally change your bottom line of getting attention and whatnot. But imagine if that actually was a thing in pop culture, in the zeitgeist and just the communal knowledge.
Camden Bernatz (00:19:51) - Oh, hey, you're 100. Hey, have you gone to A&W recently? Like, it's just something that we associate with turning 100 years old. There's an opportunity. No, there's not many things like that. It's the Forgotten Generation and things like that I talked about. I would love to have that be one of the things again, I love for them. I guess I should say that that becomes one of the things that when someone turns 100 besides, wow, congratulations, you lived a good life, blah blah blah. It's also, oh, don't forget, you're eligible for the A deal. Now that needs to be in people's minds for that to happen. And this could easily just be forgotten that there's no kind of follow up on it.
Corey Ostler (00:20:24) - Yeah, I agree, I thought that like, I don't I haven't researched to know if they are doing follow up stuff, but like I was thinking like truly the full realization of this campaign would be if it did enter into like the public consciousness or like kind of a, a meme of like what turning 100 is.
Corey Ostler (00:20:41) - It's like, hey, like associate this with that. Because like, anytime I've seen like someone's grandparents or great grandparents are turning 100 on like Facebook or something, they'd make a big deal of it. It is a big deal. Because like, you know, that's it is sort of a rarity just based on the statistical life expectancy of the average person. And so why not capitalize on that? And sort of like, you know, anytime someone turns a hundreds like hashtag going to A&W now for my free root beer like that, like you said, that has legs that could last a long time. You need.
Camden Bernatz (00:21:09) - They need to connect with like the government or insurance, like everyone, everyone knows about AARP. You get that letter in the mail and they know how old you are. And that's something I'm not even I'm not even close to that. But I know it's like a thing, like, oh no, I've got the AARP letter in the mail. That means I feel like I'm getting old.
Camden Bernatz (00:21:25) - That's like a that's a that's a cultural awareness thing. It's not fun, like free root beer. But if there was something that like, yeah, somehow people just get reminded like this. Oh, I got the A&W reminder in the mail. My birthday's next month, I don't know.
Corey Ostler (00:21:39) - Well, they might do it too, because like, if you for this, they're signing up for a rewards program. Lots of restaurants have that. So it's, you know, every year for your birthday like if they want to really own it, but like, hey, only 62 more years until you're eligible for free.
Camden Bernatz (00:21:51) - That's a good one.
Corey Ostler (00:21:51) - To remind you.
Camden Bernatz (00:21:53) - That's a good idea. Yeah. Because obviously it's like if you're old, it's like whatever. It's just, you know, you get and start using it. But yeah, if you like right now it has like some countdown, but it's like 70 years until you get free root beer and who knows all that.
Corey Ostler (00:22:06) - And then that's just like, yeah, it just keeps you top of mind.
Corey Ostler (00:22:09) - And like, that's what this type of branding is all about is like, hey, next time I go to eat somewhere, like that's now entered into my mind. Whereas like, maybe I'd be like, oh, I got McDonald's, Wendy's, chick fil A. Oh, and and now I have, you know, and KFC in there.
Camden Bernatz (00:22:23) - It'd be cool to if like again, this is probably more data and technology than is worthwhile but just it'd be fun to if it like tracked how many different root beers you had over time. So by the time you get to 100, it's like you've had 7000 root beers and now you get them free for life. Or, I don't know.
Corey Ostler (00:22:39) - Try to get that many free ones. Yeah.
Camden Bernatz (00:22:42) - Cool. Okay. This has been an interesting, campaign to talk about, anything else before I. Yeah, I've kind of led us in a few different weird directions. Do you have anything that stood out as far as the the craft, the the execution or anything from from someone who's does this kind of stuff for clients, anything that you want to talk about?
Corey Ostler (00:22:59) - just like I said, I think for me, it's always interesting when I hear these type of things.
Corey Ostler (00:23:02) - It's just the the creative brainstorm process that they, you know, arrived at this through. And he did detailed that out of just like, hey, well, this is a big milestone. How can we celebrate this instead of just putting like, hey, 100 years? Yeah. Like they're like, no, let's do something that's going to get some attention. And they knew that, you know, as a as an own media type campaign, it runs the risk of like, not it has to be interesting enough that, you know, a news outlet would be it would be interesting enough that they would pick it up of their own accord. And so, you know, you can send out press releases and stuff. But I think knowing that is the goal and like how they came up with something like that is, is very interesting because that is sort of a hard execution to do. Like, hey, let's appeal to like something like, because that is a funny new story. If I saw that headline, I'd be like, oh yeah, that that'd be something I'd read about.
Corey Ostler (00:23:52) - And so, you know, press people know that and they, you know, as long as the war didn't start that day, that's something that could get picked up. And then craft wise, I guess, I, you know, I've been a part of a few video shoots and, you know, knowing how to deal with talent and costumes and this would be in a special or a, you know, a unique challenge, I suppose, as far as that type of thing goes. But it's interesting just to, you know, the camera style that they chose and like the types of colors that they went with to try to make it pop on screen, but it's still meld with what the brand is and stuff like that. So all those little creative decisions like that are always interesting to to see.
Camden Bernatz (00:24:29) - Yeah. Yeah. They, they shot at vertical for social clearly had social usage in mind, mobile usage in mind. And that's something that's nice if you can. Not that you have to just do one.
Camden Bernatz (00:24:39) - You can have multiple different cuts of the same creative. But this one clearly was from the beginning. They knew they're going to run it on mobile I can tell.
Corey Ostler (00:24:46) - Yeah I will say that as something that, you know, I mean, maybe most places do this well, but that's something that hopefully everyone can kind of navigate towards as knowing that whatever the end result is going to be should affect the shop process. Because as a creative, if you shoot something kind of wide, that's like it works well in that one format, and then you try to go edit it to vertical video and like, oh, this doesn't work at all. So I think now that the world kind of lives on social media, that is going to affect the way that we like frame basic shots and stuff like that. So that's an interesting. Yeah. I think you.
Camden Bernatz (00:25:18) - Just made me think of something. This is probably this is my last little bit that I have Ad. But you just made me think about this and maybe there's a whole nother episode.
Camden Bernatz (00:25:25) - We could talk about this, but I've been really like assessing. I've been like micro assessing video ads recently because having been in our for our team, I've been working on a few different video ads for clients, and I've been thinking about the finding the balance of pre-planning your shots versus gathering a bunch of stuff and putting it together. And I don't mean just like B-roll, but I mean like, for example, it's the Olympics happening when we're recording this, and there's lots of different, you know, sports related ads people are putting out. And some of these ads have a kind of montage of people doing, like, different sport things that as someone has a voiceover or something like that, and they're really cool shots, dramatic good angles, good lighting or not. And that's just an example. It's not only a sports thing. But for example, the sports ads, I'm like, okay, there's I don't think that. I'm guessing here, I'm guessing that that specific two second clip before it changes to the next two second clip probably wasn't pre storyboarded out like it has to do.
Camden Bernatz (00:26:24) - This person running and jumping in this angle and then someone else is going to be throwing overhand versus it's they probably gathered a bunch of people doing different things sports related. Hey I want you to run now do this now jump over this hurdle and, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then the editing process came together and made it fit good. And that makes sense in some context. I feel like because you can't you don't want to stick yourself to saying it has to be this when you might get a really good shot of something else that happens that you want to put in. But on the other side of the that coin, you don't want to go in there with no plan and just hope you just, you know, have some random B-roll it doesn't fit with like the timing, the music, the message that turned. Anyway. So I'm getting really in the weeds here, but I've been really fascinated lately with like, how much do you pre-plan shot direction before you go out there? And the answer might be, like I said about the other question I asked, it might just be, it depends.
Camden Bernatz (00:27:16) - But any wisdom to give to me as I as I keep thinking about this that you should send me off with.
Corey Ostler (00:27:22) - it is, it depends. But. And the thing that it depends on is how like with that type of thing, let's say, I would imagine that they, they did have like a storyboard to go along with and the basic, you know, idea like some angles and some shots. And so they probably took multiple angles of different shots. And then in the end, because like the the lighting, especially in those sports things, is very, very studio controlled. Like it's not like you don't get dramatic lighting just because. Right, unless you're outdoors at the right time. So that's all very pre-planned. And then I would imagine, like you said, they take several takes of something and then they edit that together knowing, you know, like here's what we thought would work. And they look back at it and they're like, let's try this, let's try this. And then and the end.
Corey Ostler (00:28:02) - It might not be the same, but one of my favorite things to do, like if they have it available like movies or cartoons even, or stuff like that is just like sometimes they have a side by side of like the storyboard and then the actual movie next to it to try to see how it is. And like, it's pretty cool. Like some of them stick really close to it and then some are just like completely different. And you're like, oh, I can kind of see why they did that. So yes, it depends. But also generally speaking, if it's going to be anything that needs like if it's, you know, unless you like, unless your style is 100% candid and it needs to look, you know, authentic or you're like, you know, shooting news reel or something like that of an actual event. I think there is always at least some storyboarding or at least shot list planning that goes into it, just otherwise you could waste a lot of time on the set.
Camden Bernatz (00:28:44) - Oh yeah, you definitely should have some kind of yeah, you shouldn't go in and totally blind. I've just been impressed with some of these ads I've been seeing that just capture some moments of things that just seem so like and again, I'm assuming, but it seems kind of natural and like that. How would you that that seems so natural and unscripted that that motion or that facial reaction or that thing that I'm like, how, how even if I had that in my mind, I knew I wanted exactly that shot. I'm not sure how I'd even describe it to the client to get it approved and to the actors to do it, you'd have to just have it happen naturally. And so I, I've just been fascinated with some of the stuff I've been seeing lately. And anyways, something just trying to get better at is not overcooking it before it gets made, but also having some kind of a plan that you're not going to blind. And that's that's the challenge in the balance. Yeah.
Corey Ostler (00:29:30) - And with and with athletic stuff especially, I think that you're right.
Corey Ostler (00:29:33) - That's the perfect blend of both because like you can't it's not acting to do I mean it kind of is. But like you know if you're going to be like because I've, I don't know which one you're referring to, but I'm, I have in mind like there's an ad that had Michael Phelps in it from like a few Olympics ago. Like, yeah, you can't tell him like, do this really.
Speaker 3 (00:29:49) - Dramatic breaststroke.
Corey Ostler (00:29:50) - Or something. Like, you could tell him to, like, ham it up a little bit, but like, you set up the environment to capture whatever's about to happen. And so as long as I have multiple cameras, right, it's like, okay, do your thing like 3 or 4 times and then we'll get the shot from that. But like, you know, you're about to do something that like, you. Yeah, you can't act. It has to be natural or spontaneous.
Camden Bernatz (00:30:10) - Yeah. Well said. I guess it just it goes as, as a props to to editors editing.
Camden Bernatz (00:30:16) - Sometimes it's not it's not just taking things and putting them in the right order or just laying a music track over it. But sometimes in the editing process, you've got to make creative decisions and work with, you know, your your client, your director, your, your creative director, whoever's on the project to say, you know, we're still building this in the editing phase. It's not just piecing together all the pieces we already knew we wanted, which is, I guess, not news of people in the industry. But just a good reminder sometimes is, creativity and inspiration come from in that stage of the process. Even after all the shooting, all the filming has been done. So yeah, props to editors, right? Awesome. Well, thank you, Corey, for joining us today. I know you've been on before, but for those who maybe haven't heard your previous episode, where can people either get in touch with you or find what you're up to. Where should, Where should we send them for that?
Corey Ostler (00:31:05) - Yeah, I have a website.
Corey Ostler (00:31:07) - It's just coreyosler.com. I have, you know, the EKR our website is also where I work for. So if you want to, you know, get in contact with us and have probably me working on your account, then also get in contact with them. And I think those are probably the main ones.
Camden Bernatz (00:31:23) - Yeah, I follow his stuff. Corey's got good. Good. not just thought leadership stuff from his from his brain, but he he puts out good work as well for if you need some inspiration on what what you could be creating as a, as a designer and art director. And so yeah, as Corey mentioned, we both we both do this stuff. We work at EKR, we we love working on the brand building for clients as well as an execution on creative, you campaigns or one offs or whatever needs to happen to get those brands into the world. So if you've been listening to us and looking for someone to partner with or you know somebody in mind, you need some of these services, whatever it might be.
Camden Bernatz (00:32:00) - We would love the opportunity to to see if we can be a good fit and help in whatever creative capacity, you might need. And for those who have any questions or recommendations for us and who we should interview next, you can reach out to us at brandspodcast@ekragency.com. And if nothing else, we encourage you to follow the podcast, subscribe if you haven't, and give us a review as well. That helps us a lot. we of course love five star reviews. Those are great, but even if it's not a full five stars, getting reviews helps us. If it's if it's going to be a one, maybe reach out, let us know. We can improve. We don't want to see those ones that we can help it. But anyways, we just want reviews and to know how we're doing, how we can get better. So appreciate your time as listeners. Appreciate your time, Corey. Stay tuned for more content on brands and campaigns.
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