Zack Estrin Bonus Episode ===

Paul Adelstein: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. And welcome to a special episode of the show today. We are remembering Zach Estrin, who was one of the core writers who wrote on the show for all four of its original seasons.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Zach passed away suddenly in September of 2022, uh, after he collapsed while he was out on a run. Um, Zach was only 51, and he left behind a wife and two children and a truly extraordinary career.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, he was an executive producer and writer on Prison Break, as well as Lost in Space, The River, The Whisperer, Zero Hour, and many more. And when we spoke with the other co writers from Prison Break, it was clear that Zach was a powerful creative force behind our show.

Sarah Wayne Callies: He [00:01:00] was funny. And he was fearless.

Um, some of the lines that made us giggle and gasp the most, uh, and the ones that we can't believe they got past the censors, um, a lot of those lines came from Zach. So, for instance, his first episode was 104, which is, uh, English Fitz or Percy. Um, and that has arguably my favorite line in the whole show when Michael says to the breakout gang, we're not breaking out of a Jamba Juice, gentlemen.

Paul Adelstein: Your favorite line. Um,

Sarah Wayne Callies: Jamba Juice was huge back then. Uh, I almost feel like with the waning of Jamba Juice, it gets even funnier. Um, also in the script, for the very first time, the phrase just have a little faith shows up. Um, it's, uh, young, Lincoln says it to young Michael in a flashback, and then we find them in real time in the chapel, um, at Fox River when they think that Michael's going to be transferred out, uh, and that line and the kind of heart behind it became a touchstone for the whole series.

Just have a little [00:02:00] faith. Um, and then a couple of acts later, in the same script, uh, we get that amazing, iconic bellic line that Wade Williams delivered so well, when Michael misses count. Say it with me. We got a runner, which is a great

Paul Adelstein: delivery and all those things are in one script. That's all. All those kind of iconic.

Yeah. And then in episode 110, which Zach wrote, then there were seven, uh, he had a lot of fun writing for teabag, obviously, because I think they all did, um, from Abruzzi calling him Sergeant Sodomy to C Notes line, your parents. Must be so proud, man, you hitting the redneck trifecta, racist, pedophile, and stupid.

And not a page later, it's C Note again, to Michael, coming back from his conjugal. While we're in here slinging concrete, you have some girly play you a tune on the Rusty Trombone.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Rusty Trombone.

Paul Adelstein: Zach introduced the audience to Michael's wife, Nika, and gave us that heartbreaking moment when Sarah sees Nika leaving her conjugal with [00:03:00] Michael.

And then we get Tweener's line heard round the world. About prison industry salaries. That's slavery, yo. And that's just the warmup for tweener response to Michael's question. Still interested in getting on some pi, which is the amazing, does my mama got big breasts? Hell yeah, she does. And hell yeah, I do.

And just for the record, that's spelled B-R-E-S-T-I-C-E-S in the script? Mm-Hmm. .

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. He was a specific man. Or Zach. Um, and then he wrote 115, which is, I think, one of the best of the first season, maybe the whole show. Brothers Keeper. Uh, that's the flashback episode that takes all of our main characters back in time to what brought them to Fox River, um, or in the case of some of us, the initial crimes where they set up Lincoln Burroughs.

Um, it's, I mean, it's completely unlike any other episode in the series, and it's pretty fucking brilliant. Um, and there's this exchange between Sucre and Mary Cruz that kills me every time, [00:04:00] and And she asks him, what does he want from the future? And he answers, would you run if I said you? And she responds, would you chase me if I did?

Paul Adelstein: Oh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, and it's like, it's so beautiful and it's, it's beautiful. You know, it's why you root for them for the rest of the whole season. Um, counterpointed with Sarah meeting Bellic for the first time in an AA meeting, and him seducing her with, maybe you and I could talk about it over dinner, I've got a gift card to the Red Lobster over off the interstate.

Paul Adelstein: Not as romantic in your opinion?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Personally I'm allergic to seafood, so not so much.

Paul Adelstein: Not a great pitch. Um, Zach, these are just some, you know, instance, very specific instances of Zach's contribution, it goes on and on. His Influence on the show was creative, it was interpersonal, everybody that we had on the show that worked in the writer's room, that directed on the show, [00:05:00] always pointed Zach out for being one of the main drivers of the spirit of the show and, and the joy that they had working on the show.

So when we've had our writer and director guests on our podcast, we've invited them to share a few words about Zach. Um, some of them didn't say much, frankly hard for them to talk about. Some of them did.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And it was interesting because all the writers that we spoke about, spoke with, talked about that writer's room as sort of a high watermark in their careers, um, and Zach was super central to that.

So, so here are some of their recollections in their own words.

Paul Adelstein: From, uh, writer Karen Usher, another one of the core writers who wrote on the show for all four seasons. This is what Karen had to say.

Karyn Usher: Yeah. Do you have

Paul Adelstein: any, any particular recollections, Zach, that you want to share with us? I

Karyn Usher: mean, I have so many billions.

I would imagine,

Paul Adelstein: yeah.

Karyn Usher: I should give him an, he is an enormous, I mean, it's an enormous loss to his family, but it's also an enormous loss to like the television community in general. He was a fantastic writer, um, but also a [00:06:00] really good person. Um, he was so funny. And he was such a sweet guy and we, um, I would have, we've had some, we had some particularly good battles and my, um, I used to throw my shoe at Zach and I didn't wish you and other people, but I would take off my shoe when I was in an argument with Zach and like bling it across the table.

Eventually, like in third, I also remember in third season, some particularly explosive argument had broken out, but Zach and I were not a part of, and. We would like text across the table, like texting was like barely new, and we would like text across the table about like, oh, this is like getting into a heated battle.

And at one point in the battle, he like pointed down like, Let's have a meeting and we both slid under the tape to talk about and we were like, what should we do? I mean, what's going on? [00:07:00]

Paul Adelstein: Amazing.

Karyn Usher: Calm things down.

Paul Adelstein: That's so beautiful.

Karyn Usher: But yeah, and Zach also, I mean, I'm sure you can tell in the voice of the show that the voices, although I think that Nick and I probably sound a little bit more similar, um, Zach had a frankly like sophomore sense of humor that comes off really well in the show.

Yeah. Yeah. His episodes are really. especially funny and like my favorite line of any show ever is probably tweeter saying to michael does my mama have big breasts and michael's saying i wouldn't know like and then he

Sarah Wayne Callies: goes yeah she does and yeah i would

Karyn Usher: yeah she does and yeah i would

Paul Adelstein: amazing

Karyn Usher: that was like a He, he had been doing it longer than Nick and I, had been a writer longer than Nick and I had been.

It was like Zach was born to be a writer, you know, like a second generation, like born to be a writer. Yeah, what

Sarah Wayne Callies: do you mean [00:08:00] second generation? Was his, were his parents in the business?

Karyn Usher: Yeah, his father, yes, and his father was, and, um, he just was, and it was funny because I remember him saying, I guess it was Charlotte, his oldest daughter, that when she was like three years old, was like already putting cards down on the floor.

Like, she was already like, this is what I do, I'm making my story. And I know Nick Santora's daughter actually is pursuing being, um, a writer. Um, but I don't know about Zach's kids, but yeah, they're kind of handing it down.

Paul Adelstein: That was writer Karen Usher.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And then from Paul Schering, who of course created Prison Break, this is what he had to say.

Paul Scheuring: The only thing I would say now is, you know, everyone speaks well of the dead, but, um, He was a really, a special person. He was very talented, but more importantly, he was such a sweet human being. He was such a positive dude. And, [00:09:00] and, you know, subsequent to this, I, I made a few more, uh, pilots, uh, and I always asked him to come along because you know, of his skillset and because of his, you know, bon homie.

Uh, so, I mean, you know, pour out a little beer for that guy. 'cause he was really, he was really one of the good ones.

Paul Adelstein: And with that, we'll be right back.

Sarah Wayne Callies: All right, welcome back, everyone.

Paul Adelstein: Here's some remembrances from Greg Utenis, who helmed some of the most iconic episodes of the series, um, and directed one of Zach's episodes.

Greg Yaitanes: My contact picture for Zach is the picture I took of him on set at Prison Break, which I still have on my phone. And in this business, you find, you know, when you can find those kindred spirits or those people you connect to or those people you want to, Have dinner with later on set like, you know, Paul and I did and and you know, it was [00:10:00] you It's just like he and I would either he was a great cheerleader like all throughout My career like it was like when he saw when he saw something I had done He wrote when I saw something he did he wrote I was gonna I came in to I met on producing lost in space with him Like, you know, he was You Always so, like he was always there with a compliment.

I, like you, sir, I found out, like I had just talked to him, like House of the Dragon was airing. And I was, we were writing on Instagram to each other, you know. It was shocking, and he was gone way too soon, and he was like, he was just, I like, and it's not even lionizing, I wouldn't be having this conversation, like I don't, I'm not one of the people that, like in somebody's death suddenly, Romanticize who they were in life.

It was like it was a real it was a real loss You know I didn't I put feelers out to find out there's a memorial or something was happening and [00:11:00] didn't nothing sort of came back. So But it was you know I think an opportunity like this with other people that knew him and to be able to mourn the loss and and They that we miss him is So important like I definitely lost like a professional friend You in the business and I don't have many of those.

I always think people fall into two buckets. They work from a place of pain and torture, or they work from a place of joy. And I think pretty much everybody I've ever worked with, I could put in either of those two buckets. And I felt that, you know, Zach was working from joy. I feel like that's why we got on well, because I work from a place of joy.

I love, I love being on set. It doesn't, I don't have to tear myself to pieces to do what I do. I loved that, like, when somebody's even more buoyant, you know, like, it's just great. And it's, and he was excited too, like, we'd be doing something, he's like, I love that shot. Like, why, like, do you get special lenses?

Like, why does your stuff look so good? You [00:12:00] know, like, stop being so good, you know, like, he, he was such a, you know, he was so great.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And here are a few words from showrunner Matt Olmsted.

Matt Olmstead: Yeah, he was, in a way, like, the funny bone and the heart of the staff. And wildly talented, but also wildly inappropriate.

He'd take inappropriate comments. Some of

Sarah Wayne Callies: his lines.

Matt Olmstead: I'm believing. But also in the room, he would take it just there, but it would be so endearing and comforting because he would just, he didn't have a stick up his ass. He just enjoyed the process, loved the process and was super, super smart. I remember he wrote an episode that was the flashback episode in the first season.

Brother's

Sarah Wayne Callies: Keeper. Brother's Keeper. Brother's

Matt Olmstead: Keeper. And I was doing a little bit of interviews back then or whatever. And somebody asked me a favorite episode of the season. I, I mentioned that he came in and, and, but I remember when I turned in the script and it [00:13:00] was perfect, the one thing about Zach is you had to kind of pull scripts out of his hand sometimes.

Cause it was kind of a little bit late. He just obsessed to go over. He turned in the script. I'm like, this is unbelievable. We go in the room. I'm like, I have one note. Um, C note when he's talking to his commanding officer, he has one line that's kind of laying on a little thick. Maybe take that out. He's like, well, the reason I like it, I'm like, I gave you one note and you're pushing back on one sentence.

I gave you 53 pages in one note. And he would good naturedly and I'll do the note and I'll do that. I always remember about that. Um, he's one of the few guys who I felt really kind of cracked the code of work and balance. You're, you're from, you're talking from Vancouver Island and I want to hear that.

I'm like, that's someone who's kind of found a way to kind of like balance their life out. He lived in [00:14:00] Manhattan Beach. Yeah. Had a full life down there. Yeah. Great family man. And was just so talented, but a good friend. And he, one of the guys who was there from day one. Absolutely pushing the bigger stories, absolutely pushing the bigger swings.

Somebody to really go to for advice. Um, and so when the news came that, um, he was, uh, taken from us. Uh, very heavy, very heavy, and um, greatly missed.

Paul Adelstein: That was showrunner Matt Olmstead. Sarah, what are some of your recollections of Zach?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, there was something so deeply collaborative, uh, about his work and about his respect for every department.

And he didn't see us as meat puppets, he really saw us as sort of co creators. Which meant a lot. Um, and interestingly, his father, I think, was on the board of a nonprofit in LA called Op USA that did, uh, [00:15:00] aid work overseas. Um, and before I had started on Prison Break, my husband had worked with them for a spell.

And so, You know, I, as I was going back through some old emails, we had a bunch of communication about that too. And, you know, I don't know, it just kind of gave me a sense that Zach came from, um, a family that valued, uh, I don't know, valued service and a good family. So, um, yeah, you know, he, he made the set better.

He made the day calmer. I never saw him lose his temper.

Paul Adelstein: I think it's worth noting that. It's a, you know, what we do is a strange amalgam of skill and hard work, but also interpersonal skill. Uh huh. Uh huh. That, frankly, you don't have to have to necessarily [00:16:00] succeed in this business. Obviously, a lot of people have without having those skills.

Um, he was a really rare combination of somebody who had a lot of creative power and was a leader. Um, had people working under him and people he was working for and everybody seemed to genuinely just really enjoy not just his ideas, but his, the way that he communicated those ideas being around him.

Everybody just felt that he made any room, he was in a better room. And that is. worth celebrating because it is just, it's a rare thing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You know, I think Eutanas put it really well, that people come from fear, they come from love, the business, and like, Zach came from love. Um, which is part of why I think we wanted to, you know, do this episode to sort of acknowledge all the hearts.

Uh, that he put into the show and into everybody [00:17:00] involved.

Paul Adelstein: Alright, so let's wrap it up with a proverbial raising of the glass to a Hollywood writer who is respected, admired by everyone we've talked with, everyone who worked with him. It's no small thing. Thank you, Zach Estrin.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Thank you, Zach Estrin. Thank you for everything you gave us on Prison Break.

We're grateful to you. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul is a Caliber Studio production. Your hosts have been friends, but not besties, Sarah Wayne Callies and Paul Edelstein. Our prison warden has been producer Ben Haber. Our head of Jailhouse Rock is Paul Edelstein, who made the music. For this podcast keeping us Slim and Trim, the Prison Yard has been sound designer and editor of the great Jeff Schmidt.

Keeping us up to date on the outside world is production Assistant Drew Austin. Our prison artist logo and brand designer is John Zido and Little Big Brands. Check them out at www.littlebigbrands.com. Follow us on Instagram at Prison Break Podcast. Email us at prison breaking@caliberstudio.com. [00:18:00] And call us at 401 3P B R E A K.

Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul has been a Calibre Studio production. Thank you for listening.