CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: Hello and welcome to the National Trust

Podcast. I'm Claire Hickinbotham, a producer of the

National Trust podcast. And lover of the great outdoors.

As we wait for new adventures coming up in the second half of

this season of the National Trust Podcast, We're giving you

another chance to listen to our two Beginner's Guide to

Bikepacking episodes.

Originally recorded just after the lifting of a COVID lockdown.

When a two-day outdoor expedition seemed like a real

luxury, the journey from Crackington Haven in Cornwall to

Peppercombe Bothy in Devon, on just two wheels is still a peach

of a route.

Let's join Jo Dyson as she was planning the adventure.

JO DYSON: In my day job, I spend a lot of time at my laptop. So

whenever I get the opportunity to make one of these podcasts, I

jump at the chance.

I'm no stranger to two wheels as I commute to and from work by

bike. And enjoy riding my road bike for fitness.

But Bikepacking is a form of cycling I've never encountered

before.

So to get an understanding of what Bikepacking actually is, I

called on the services and bikepacking enthusiast, writer

and self-confessed map nerd, Katherine Moore.

We caught up over Zoom.

KATHERINE MOORE: Bikepacking has been this real buzzword over the

last couple of years. But essentially what it is, is a

cycling version of backpacking.

So you take all your equipment with you. It means that you can

make the adventure that much longer because you're not just

limited to one day.

JO DYSON: I'm really keen to find out. Where we'll be going

on this route.

KATHERINE MOORE: I think you're in for a massive treat.

This part of North Cornwall is absolutely stunning. And I think

it's the perfect introduction to bikepacking for you. So I'm very

excited.

JO DYSON: Wonderful.

Thanks for the lift!

I've just got off the bus in Crackington Haven and it is

beautiful.

Nestled within green cliff faces. There's cute little

cottages coming out of the landscape.

A lovely cafe. Sweet little pub.

The National Trust looks after huge swathes of the countryside

all around here.

There is a girl with two bikes. Katherine?

KATHERINE MOORE: Hi, Jo! How are you doing?

JO DYSON: So these are the bikes?

KATHERINE MOORE: Yeah, so this bike that you're going to be

riding is actually a gravel bike.

If you look closely, there's actually a few differences

compared to your road bike.

It is a drop bar bike, but there's actually much wider

tires on there.

So that's going to be not only a bit more comfortable, but also

really good for different terrains.

We might do a little bit of off-road.

You've got a full complement of bike packing bags on there too.

JO DYSON: So why are we not using panniers?

KATHERINE MOORE: Modern bike packing bags rather than being

mounted to a rack they're actually strapped directly to

the bike under the seat post, they're in between the frame.

There's everything from the camping gear that we're going to

need tonight. The small tent. Sleeping bag. Mats.

All of your clothing that you might need. All of your spares

and tools.

So that's essentially what bikepacking is all about really.

It's taking everything that you'll need with you and

exploring the countryside or wherever you've chosen. In this

case, this stunning piece of coastline.

JO DYSON: Can you tell me a little bit more about the route?

KATHERINE MOORE: Yeah, so I knew there was a few things that you

wanted to get out of this trip.

Firstly being two days and also visiting, Hawkers Hut which is

the National Trust's smallest property.

JO DYSON: Yes!

KATHERINE MOORE: And then spending the last night just on

the Devon border at Peppercombe.

Okay, this is the route that I've chosen for us.

We're going to take the road west out of Crackington Haven.

Turn onto National Cycle Route 3 all the way along to Bude where

we're going to be spending the night at the campsite.

JO DYSON: So should we go?

KATHERINE MOORE: Let's do it!

JO DYSON: Oh! Gears!

KATHERINE MOORE: We'll get there! Here we go!

We're going right here.

JO DYSON: Oh my gosh, Katherine, look what's ahead. That is

steep!

KATHERINE MOORE: Straight into it with a pretty Toasty climb

out of Crackington Haven. Up, up, up!

Gravel bikes do have so many more gears than a road bike.

But it's the difference between your biggest and your smallest

gear that comes in most handy.

A nice small gear that you'll be able to pedal up the really

steep hills with.

JO DYSON: Yeah.

KATHERINE MOORE: But also a decent gear at the other end, so

when you're on the flat, you can really zoom along.

JO DYSON: Oh, you're getting out the saddle. So am I!

Yeah, straight out the saddle.

KATHERINE MOORE: Yeah. Yeah, it's like a wall of tarmac.

JO DYSON: So when you look at an aerial map and you're like, "Oh

Okay, that's just a few miles." And what you're not taking into

account. Is the uphill!

Oh!

Ugh.

KATHERINE MOORE: Oh Jo, I think this is the top!

JO DYSON: Really?

KATHERINE MOORE: Yes. This way look! Oh, my goodness.

JO DYSON: Woo!

What a view! ` Tiny glimmer of the blue sea in the background.

So that must be Crackington Haven that we're looking back

at?

KATHERINE MOORE: Yeah.

It's looking like the next few miles are relatively flat. And

then soon we'll rejoin the coast road. And then down into Millook

Haven.

Right, are you ready to go?

JO DYSON: Absolutely!

KATHERINE MOORE: It's quite nice to be pedalling along the tops

now where it's a lot more gentle and flat.

JO DYSON: I would love to know what got you into bikepacking

because obviously this is very much your world isn't it?

KATHERINE MOORE: So the first time I actually went on a proper

bikepacking trip. It was the very last minute, three-day trip

up to the Cairngorm in Scotland but I'd never actually ridden a

gravel bike before.

Much like you, straight into it.

And I was actually a bit terrified because one of the

only crashes that I'd had on my road bike was on a bit of

gravel.

We went straight onto this gravel track.

And I was petrified, but you know, after three days of riding

these tracks, which wasn't easy either, I was just in love with

it.

And the exploration and the camping. I remember at the time

it being pretty hard work, but when you do it totally under

your own steam.

And fix your own mechanicals. And cook your own food. It's

really an incredible feeling.

JO DYSON: How do you think it compares to sort of hiking and

other activities?

KATHERINE MOORE: Well, I think, the thing for me about

bikepacking is, you can just travel so much further compared

to when you're on foot, doing like a multi-day tour-

JO DYSON: Yeah.

KATHERINE MOORE: You can experience so many more

different diverse landscapes.

I feel like you can get really into nature.

Much more than you can, for example, if you're taking

motorized transport.

JO DYSON: What you've just described, just makes me feel a

huge, sense of freedom.

KATHERINE MOORE: Absolutely.

Oh, here we go.

First downhill. Look at this ribbon of tarmac!

This is the descent we are treated to for all of that

climbing.

Woo!

JO DYSON: Oh my god!

Katherine's just left me for dust. I think he's a bit braver

on the down hill than I am!

I've definitely got some of the brakes on.

KATHERINE MOORE: Wow, So we're coming down a 30% hill!

Oh my gosh Jo, this is so steep!

And it's a little bit gravelly on this corner!

JO DYSON: Be careful not to slip on that!

KATHERINE MOORE: Wow!

This is just incredible! Wow!

JO DYSON: Aww this is gorgeous!

KATHERINE MOORE: Look at this.!

JO DYSON: So we're in Millhook now?

KATHERINE MOORE: Millhook! The whole beach is just these huge

boulders and pebbles and then out onto that low shore, rocky

part.

It's just fabulously empty as well, isn't it?

By the look of this sign we might even see-

JO DYSON: A seal pup!

KATHERINE MOORE: I would love to see some Seals and Choughs.

That's a bird that I haven't been able to see yet around

Cornwall. It kind of looks like a crow but it has a orangey-red,

beak and legs.

I would love to see one. Let's go and see if we can find any

seals.

Just one beach hut and then a little, tiny little old rowing

boat. It's very rustic, isn't it? Certainly not what I

expected.

Jo, come and have a look at this.

I think this is going to blow your mind.

Just look up at that cliff. It's like some sort of modern art or

something, isn't it?

JO DYSON: It's beautiful!

KATHERINE MOORE: Those zigzags in the rock, that must be

millions of years of compression and rock changing to get those

patterns.

And they're all in different colours, sort of rusty reds to

blacks and greys.

And a few little nest sites in there, I think too!

JO DYSON: Oh, can you spot some nest sites?

KATHERINE MOORE: Well, only where there's some bird poop.

JO DYSON: Is that the giveaway?!

KATHERINE MOORE: Tell tale sign yeah!

JO DYSON: Look, you can see the coastal path weaving its way

down there with the walkers up on the right there.

KATHERINE MOORE: Crikey!

JO DYSON: Is that what we're cycling up?

KATHERINE MOORE: Let's see!

It's like a skyscraper!

Well, I don't know about you, I'd love to stay here and

explore, but we have plenty to crack on with.

So I think we should get back on the bikes Jo and tackle this

hill.

JO DYSON: Okay, let's get it over and done with!

KATHERINE MOORE: Oh lord! Another 30% Jo!

JO DYSON: Oh my god!

KATHERINE MOORE: That's it, out of the saddle, looking great.

How are the legs, Jo?

JO DYSON: Feeling it everywhere. Where are you feeling it?

KATHERINE MOORE: In my lungs!

JO DYSON: That burning sensation!

KATHERINE MOORE: You've got to embrace the burn!

JO DYSON: Oh!

KATHERINE MOORE: Oh, Jo! This is another corker, isn't it?

JO DYSON: I'm loving these tree tunnels though. The trees are

sort of linking above us.

It's providing some really lovely shade on this big climb!

Katherine, I'm just hoping a car doesn't come the other way.

Oh! There's a car! [

KATHERINE MOORE: Distant Shouting] Hahaha Thank you.

JO DYSON: Did you hear her Katherine? The worst yet to

come! Oh!

KATHERINE MOORE: Nothing like support from the locals.

JO DYSON: Oh, Lena! Oh!

KATHERINE MOORE: Go on, keep going.

I wouldn't fancy doing this on a road bike. With many fewer

gears. Oh!

JO DYSON: Oh, I'm just gonna-

Pause on this bend! Oh, for a second! Ah!

So Katherine and I, We're just pausing now.

Only for a second to let the cars go by, not to catch our

breath at all.

KATHERINE MOORE: Yeah, wow. I've never quite seen a switchback,

that's steep.

JO DYSON: What is the switchback?

KATHERINE MOORE: You get them a lot in the Alps and you see them

on TV in the Tour de France and all that sort of thing. We do

actually have a fair few of them in the UK.

JO DYSON: Right, let's tackle the rest of this hill.

KATHERINE MOORE: Come on, Jo, use the rest of those gears.

JO DYSON: Oh my god!

KATHERINE MOORE: That's it, I can see the top!

JO DYSON: Woo!

KATHERINE MOORE: Oh Jo, look at this!

JO DYSON: Spectacular!

KATHERINE MOORE: So, this must be that viewpoint that I saw on

the map.

JO DYSON: Looking out at that huge stretch of coastline and

because there's so many coves almost like worlds-

Worlds within worlds. Sort of pockets.

KATHERINE MOORE: You can even see some surfers down there.

JO DYSON: Oh, yes, yes, you're right. Just waiting for a wave.

KATHERINE MOORE: Can you hear that above us?

I think that's a skylark. Apparently what the males do as

a sort of courtship ritual is they fly up as high as they can

whilst making this really elaborate song to try and

impress the females.

Sounds like a lot of effort.

JO DYSON: Yeah. Just buy them a drink instead.

There's going to be some people playing chess. Hi guys! Are you

playing chess in the back of a car?

GENERIC: Just the perfect, post surf activities.

JO DYSON: I'm guessing from your accents that you're not from

round here.

GENERIC: No, we are both from Italy.

Firstly I moved to London to work in the film industry and

then after a few years I had enough of the city. Too crowded!

Yeah now, I live here. The quality of life is much better.

You can surf. We have nature. And it's beautiful.

KATHERINE MOORE: Yeah, it's fantastic, isn't it?

JO DYSON: We'll leave you in peace for your calming game of

chess.

Yeah, I hope the surf picks up this afternoon.

KATHERINE MOORE: See you later.

JO DYSON: Bye. Cheers. Bye.

So Katherine, do you want to lead the way to Widemouth Bay?

KATHERINE MOORE: Let's do it, I think. It's all downhill.

JO DYSON: Wow, I think you might have said that last time.

It's been a few miles since our last stopping point with that

incredible view and now we are actually at Widemouth Bay. And

here it's a completely different vibe.

KATHERINE MOORE: Like it's come out of Baywatch or something,

isn't it?

JO DYSON: There are families on a day out. People sunbathing.

Look out huts. Four by fours. And there are surfers literally

everywhere

HORACE PARSONS: Can I help you ladies?

JO DYSON: Yeah, we were just admiring the lifeguard hut. Are

you part of that?

HORACE PARSONS: Yeah, I'm a volunteer lifeguard and a member

of Bude Surf Lifesaving Club.

JO DYSON: The lifeguard hut here looks like it's come straight

out of Baywatch. I'd love to know more about that.

HORACE PARSONS: The lifeguard side of stuff in Cornwall was

actually brought here by an Australian.

There was Australian airmen based at St Morgan Airport near

Newquay during the war. They'd seen all the beaches and when

they went back to Australia, they reported about the beaches

in Cornwall.

Alan Kennedy, who was a prime mover in the life-saving in

Australia. Came to the UK in 1951. And was transferred to the

Australian High Commission as a dairy officer.

When he first came to Cornwall, there was a good surf coming in

at Summerleaze Beach.

He went down and went straight in the water for a body surf.

He was amazed at poor quality of the equipment the lifeguards

had. The abilities of the lifeguards, the fitness of the

lifeguards.

He totally understood why there were so many tragedies and so

many drownings.

The equipment they had was really poor and it's quite

possible that the person that was carrying out the rescue

might end up getting in trouble himself.

It was very primitive.

Their training was mostly carried out in pools or lakes.

Anybody came from a lake or a pool and tried to swim in the

sea and there's a four or five foot surf running... they would

really struggle. It's completely different.

Whereas Alan Kennedy was totally aware of the dangers of swimming

in the sea from his experience and knowledge from Australia.

The Australians, they had the reel and line.

The drum with 400 meters of line on, with a belt on the end. The

rescuer would put on.

He would swim out to the patient with four other people working

on the reel and the line.

Before that they would have a life ring with maybe 70 meters

of rope on it and half the time they couldn't get to the patient

they'd run out of line.

Well, when Alan came to Bude, he'd arranged for the reel and

line and a rescue ski to be sent to Bude.

With this equipment he trained the local youth club members.

The 12 members took their bronze award. At the time, the only

people to gain the bronze medallion outside of Australia.

And on completion of gaining the award, they all set up Bude Surf

Life Saving Club.

Alan travelled to California. Got involved in trying to set up

clubs there. So if Alan Kennedy hadn't come to Bude, all the

other clubs in this country. France, Spain and the Northern

Hemisphere would not-

Would not be in place now.

JO DYSON: So a lot of lives have now been saved at sea as a

result of Alan Kennedy all those years ago bringing over the

Life-saving club.

HORACE PARSONS: It's got to be thousands.

JO DYSON: Yeah.

Horace, thank you so much. I'm so pleased we bumped into you.

It's been fascinating.

HORACE PARSONS: Good, have a lovely holiday!

KATHERINE MOORE: Thank you so much.

JO DYSON: So we've just cycled the three miles from the surfers

paradise of Widemouth Bay, and we're just coming into the most

picturesque seaside town of Bude.

So what's the plan for this evening now?

KATHERINE MOORE: Well, I think we should probably think about

putting the bikes here, locking up. And then going to find

somewhere to eat.

JO DYSON: Yeah.

KATHERINE MOORE: And then setting up camp for the night

and getting some decent rest because we've got to do this all

again tomorrow.

JO DYSON: I can see some eateries over there. So let's go

and check them out.

KATHERINE MOORE: Proper seaside town, all the buckets and

spades, cobbled little streets. Gorgeous old buildings, almost

like stable blocks.

All these little shops. Coffee, pasties!

JO DYSON: Right on the canal edge.

Oh look at those ahead! The Padalos!

KATHERINE MOORE: Oh Jo!

JO DYSON: Oh, this looks really interesting. A 1940s mini tea

room encounter. Should we go and have a look?

KATHERINE MOORE: Yeah.

JO DYSON: Hello.

CLAIR ROBERTS: Hello. Come into the Kitchen Front and come and

take a seat.

KATHERINE MOORE: Oh, thank you very much.

JO DYSON: Thank you very much.

It is beautiful in here. There's bunting, lanterns, pottery. What

exactly does the kitchen front do?

CLAIR ROBERTS: The kitchen front is really a 1940s ethos. We

serve tea and cake.

Made with original World War II recipes.

Probably the best thing is if I give you a little taster of

everything. I'm just going to bring your cakes over.

JO DYSON: Thank you.

KATHERINE MOORE: Here you go, girls.

Thank you very much. Thanks.

JO DYSON: Is this Victoria Sponge?

CLAIR ROBERTS: Yes, it is.

This recipe is actually called the one egg sponge from the

Ministry of Food. And we use a dried egg, exactly as they would

have done back then.

KATHERINE MOORE: The texture is a bit different, isn't it?

CLAIR ROBERTS: Sugar would have been on ration. What you can

taste in that and the reason it's a little bit more sticky is

because it has golden syrup in it.

JO DYSON: Oh right!

CLAIR ROBERTS: Here we have a lovely slice of apricot tart.

This is actually called mock apricot tart. The filling is

actually grated carrot with almond essence and then a

tablespoon of jam.

JO DYSON: Oh, right!

To give it that sweetness!

Clair, this concept, how does it go down with the locals?

CLAIR ROBERTS: Well, to be honest, we're here because of

the locals. It's just such a wonderful lifestyle here.

Literally, the kids skateboard to school.

Everybody surfs right up until the sun's setting and then sit

down and chill and have a couple of drinks on the beach.

We have that sort of Californian, Australian

lifestyle here and it's just incredible.

Okay girls, so I'll leave you to enjoy your cakes and I'll see

you in a little bit.

JO DYSON: Oh, thank you. Where do we start?

KATHERINE MOORE: Wow.

I might try some of this.

JO DYSON: We'd planned to set up the tents this evening, but the

campsite is currently closed. So we've checked into a hotel,

which is still an acceptable way to bikepack, right?

KATHERINE MOORE: Oh, absolutely. They call it credit card

touring!

But yeah, I think a great way to start for a beginner,

especially.

JO DYSON: So we're now down at the beach. Should we do what the

locals do and enjoy a drink and that sunset?

KATHERINE MOORE: Oh, yeah.

So Jo, your first day of bikepacking. What were your

first impressions?

JO DYSON: I've loved it. The views, the adrenaline of the

downhill, although I did put my brakes on at points.

And just we've met some amazing people as well, haven't we?

Yeah, apart from the strenuous 30% gradient uphill, I'd say

it's all been absolutely brilliant, thank you.

KATHERINE MOORE: I think that's it. It's just as much as

everything off the bike as it is on.

What would you like to toast to, Jo?

JO DYSON: Let's toast to... tomorrow's hills being smaller

and less frequent.

KATHERINE MOORE: That might be wishful thinking, but go on,

let's have a toast.

JO DYSON: Cheers!

CLAIRE HICKINBOTHAM: Thanks for listening to this episode of the

National Trust Podcast. Supported by Raleigh.

If you'd like to hear what happens in the second part of Jo

and Katherine's bikepacking adventure, that episode is

available now.

And follow or subscribe to the National Trust Podcast, so you

don't miss any episodes.