PB 23 no music ===

Paul Adelstein: [00:00:00] Hello fishes, folks and friends, and welcome to this special bonus episode of prison breaking with Sarah and Paul. I'm Paul.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I'm Sarah, and we have more Pauls in store for you.

Paul Adelstein: We have, well, we have one more Paul in store for you. Yeah, but it's

Sarah Wayne Callies: a significant Paul. It's the creator The most

Paul Adelstein: significant Paul.

The uber Paul. Of the

Sarah Wayne Callies: I mean, you don't need to, like, sell yourself short. You are also a significant Paul. Created the

Paul Adelstein: show, dude.

Sarah Wayne Callies: He did. Paul T. Sheeran created the show. Uh, and he is with us today to discuss not just an episode, but the entire first season.

Paul Adelstein: Which is great, because all season, as you know, It's probably got annoying at this part point where we've said, we got to ask Paul that we can ask Paul.

I don't know. Paul would know that. So now we can ask him that. So this will be a 14 hour podcast. Exactly. We're gonna, we're gonna hear it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: This is, uh, there's no calestine index today. It's just all Paul's all the time. Plus one Sarah. Um, but to introduce him properly. Our guest today is a novelist. Uh, he is the author of the far shore, which I've read and the resurrectionist.

He is also a [00:01:00] TV and film writer, known for A Man Apart, Prison Break, Klondike, which I loved, and Zero Hour. And, like both Paul Edelstein and myself, born in Illinois. Oh, I didn't know that. So, Paul, welcome to the podcast. Hi,

Paul Adelstein: Paul. It's so good to see you. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Yeah, it's awesome to see your

Paul Scheuring: faces.

It's been a long, long time. Yeah, it's been a long, long time. You guys look like the years have treated you well. So, thanks for having me.

Paul Adelstein: Well, we've, we've spent the last few, uh, months watching ourselves from 18 years ago, and that is a, uh, it's great, as Sarah likes to say, this is great. I love watching this show.

I don't know who any of those people are. I

Sarah Wayne Callies: none of them. None of them. What I realized is the kid that I was pregnant with in season two,

Paul Adelstein: oh no. Oh no. Is closer

Sarah Wayne Callies: to the age I was when I did that show. Yeah. Than I am to that. Like, it's literally like watching somebody, I don't know. And, uh,

Paul Adelstein: Sarah and I have both subsequently become writers and directors and being able to also see [00:02:00] what was kind of a better understanding of what was going on story wise, dramaturgically, and especially, in my case, I don't know, cinematically.

Paul Scheuring: Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Appreciation of how TV was just not made that way then. Um, okay, but before, before we, we love to talk about ourselves. Um, Two questions. First question for you, Paul. When's the last time you sat down and watched season one of Prison Break, or have you ever?

Paul Scheuring: Subsequent to, you know, the editing bay, I haven't watched any episodes.

So, and I have a question for you guys. Um, I can't remember what year this show came out. Is it actually 2004 or 2005? Is this the 20th year?

Sarah Wayne Callies: It was

Paul Scheuring: 2005. 2005, okay. 2005. No, I don't think, I don't think I've watched, uh, an episode, uh, once they left the editing bay, uh, for many of the years. Amazing. Amazing.

Not

Sarah Wayne Callies: even to, like, get ready for the season five reboot thing? Cause I, I watched, I think I re watched season one [00:03:00] to just be like, what did we even do? I don't know.

Paul Scheuring: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, once you live in the narrative of the writer's room, you know, creating it, and then again, you know, the ad nauseum, you know, repetition of the editing bay, where you're just constantly grinding the story, they become, uh, pretty deeply wired into you.

Um, at least, at least that I think was my position before I became entirely old and senile, uh, because I do want to go back and watch the first season now, because I think there's so much of it that I've forgotten. Uh, and you know, my, my kids are growing up now and my son is 14 and I haven't showed him the series yet.

And so I kind of feel like maybe it's time to show him the series. Uh, but I, but I haven't, I haven't watched them.

Paul Adelstein: We have discovered, I mean, we know, we remember the high points and a lot of details. And then there are things in any given episode. And you're like, oh, I totally forgot. I was like, wait, what?

The toes we remember, obviously. [00:04:00]

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, but I didn't realize that they came at the end of episode two.

Paul Adelstein: Right, right, right. And then there's so many reversals that you're just like, oh, I don't remember that this, that X was setting up Y. There's just so many things you forget about. But let's go back even further.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, can we start with, because there have been so, there's so many stories, and they can't all be true, about how this came to be. Right? Was it a six episode miniseries written for Fox? Was it a two season? Like, what's your memory of how these scripts landed in our hands, written by Paul T. Sherring?

Paul Scheuring: I'm gonna go way back.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, even precede Crescent Break. Um, and it's one of those, you know, Really kind of amusing, you know, stories of the journey of how things come to be and where you end up in your career and whatnot, but, you know, preceding Prison Break, I had been a feature writer in the 90s with a writing partner and, you know, the big, the big fish for writers in Hollywood were, [00:05:00] you know, the featured, big feature gigs, you know, TV was really considered this, you know, afterthought and kind of lesser product.

Uh, and, you know, we ultimately dissolved the partnership in 2003, uh, and there's this perception in Hollywood that if you have a writing team, you know, once they dissolve, everyone gets very uncomfortable about the prospect of hiring anybody, you know, either or, right? Because the question is, who's the writer, right?

That's always a question. And, and I've always found that really absurd, you know, and why can't they both be writers? But so when you dissolve a partnership, at least back then, there was, you know, the challenge of reestablishing yourself as a, as a solo shingle. Uh, and so I was pounding the pavement in Hollywood and, uh, you know, uh, fell in with the producer, Don Peruse, who then was working with, uh, Neil Moritz, uh, and Marty Adelstein.

And, uh, they had this idea for, you know, the, the, you want to do a prison break. Uh, escape series. And, and I thought, you know, first of all, [00:06:00] Like, The Great Escape is my favorite film ever, right? And I'm like, I love, I love the world, but in the back of my head, I'm like, they're never gonna do a serialized prison escape show.

They're just not gonna do it. Um, but

Sarah Wayne Callies: Because they weren't doing any serialized shows yet. No,

Paul Scheuring: no. And, and so, I still, you know, trying to prove myself, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get this job, I'm gonna write this script, and they're not gonna make it, but I'm gonna write the hell out of this script.

And so everyone's going to see that I can write as a solo act. Right. Uh, and that was my intention. I really thought that nothing was going to happen. Um, so I write it and I wrote it and turned it in and, you know, there's all this, I mean, you guys experienced this probably subsequently, but there's all this, you know, excitement on the, on the studio's behalf, you know, the agents are saying, Oh, they love it.

They love it. They're just trying to figure out how to position it. You know, it's all that kind of conditional non committal, you know, cool. Uh, love and, uh, they said they just don't know how [00:07:00] to, how to skin this thing, right? But so they feel like they got to bring in a big producer, right? So initially it was, you know, Bruce Willis's people are really excited.

You know, they want to produce it, uh, for like a limited run for Fox. Uh, and I said, well, is Bruce going to be in it? And they're like, well, no. And, and I, and the producers, why it's, he said, well, you know, it's either got to be Bruce or, you know, Fox. Or not, and so that fell out, and then subsequent to that Spielberg read it.

Uh, and I went into DreamWorks and I sat with him and it was really, you know, this really exciting time. Cause again, I'm nobody, you know, I'm trying to disestablish my first solo shingle and here I am like riffing with Spielberg about the series and he's asking me where it's going and, you know, it's a very, you know, collaborative dude and I'm like, wow, I'm sitting with Spielberg and you know, if I can get this guy on board, this is a go.

And he said, I'm going to do it as long as it doesn't take me away from my feature agenda, cause I haven't directed a film in three years. And, [00:08:00] of course, like two months later, they got the green light for War of the Worlds, and Spielberg was on. Uh, so once again, you know, you're getting all these teases, right?

You're, you're, you're so excited. You're like, you know, here's the chance to finally launch, you know, my solo, my solo career. Um, and so we're in this kind of,

Paul Adelstein: excuse me, was he going to direct the pilot or all six or what was it? What was it at this point? I don't think,

Paul Scheuring: I don't think he even would have directed the pilot.

I think he would have just produced, but I mean, you know, at that time, 20 years ago, you know, Executive producer Steven Spielberg presents, you know, it would have been a big splash. Uh, and so, you know, we're back to square one and Fox is back in this space of we're really excited about this. We're just trying to figure out how to skin it and you start to lose hope.

You know, it's everyone's saying that this thing is going to go and you're like, this is all Hollywood promises and it's never going to happen. Uh, and then Lost premiered. Right, and Lost premiered to these enormous [00:09:00] numbers, you know, back then, because nobody had anything else to watch except, you know, network TV, broadly speaking.

And uh, and the next day, literally the next day, I got a call that said, Fox is green lighting the pilot. Oh my god. Yeah, it was, it was literally the next day, and that shows you the way the wind blows in Hollywood. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, that's remarkable. So okay, so you get the call, they say, we're green lighting this.

Do they then say. Like, make it seven seasons, we want something that can go a hundred episodes, or does anybody at any point go, you created this pilot that we really like, what's your vision? Like, what are those next developmental steps?

Paul Scheuring: Yeah, by all means. And, and, and so, you know, they had put me through the paces and said, where does it go?

And, and I had, you know, you know, overdone my prep and, you know, said, here's, you know, here's every single beat and, you know, season one and whatnot. And [00:10:00] they kind of, you know, what they really heard was, Oh, he's got a plan. And so one in one ear and out the other. And they're like, it really doesn't matter until we shoot the pilot and we see what we've got.

And then we put that up against all our other pilots and decide, you know, which ones we're going to we're going to run with. So that's when they brought on Brett Ratner. And, you know, the Brett Ratner circus was in town for a few months. And, and, you know, We had to start casting and that's when we met you fine fellows, fine folks and, uh, and went to Chicago.

Wow.

Paul Adelstein: Okay, so. Sarah, where do we start? Was it always Chicago? Was it always Fox River, Joliet, Chicago? Was that in the, your original idea? I didn't know you were born in Illinois. Is there some kind of, uh, connection there?

Paul Scheuring: No, that was fortuitous. It was, um, you know, one of the mandates that I had was I, I, I said, look, you know, prison itself has got to be character.

You know, because prisons, you know, as you know, like real modern prisons are extremely, you know, unpleasant places and [00:11:00] aesthetically, you know, you know, depressing places. And it's, you know, we have to have a majestic kind of, you know, gothic character that our characters inhabit. And so, you know, we, we went through a different, a few different possibilities and they said, well, what about Joliet?

Uh, and Joliet's like, I think 30 miles up the road for where, where I live doing on the farm back in the day. Uh, so that was exciting for me. And we went back and what was interesting actually was they were shutting down Joliet at that time. Right. Uh, and so there are actually still some prisoners from the annex across the street working in the yard when we were scouting it, right?

And, you know, of course, I was nervous as hell because we're walking amongst the prisoners. And they were like, oh, don't worry, they're short. And I'm like, I didn't understand what that meant. I'm like, what do you mean, they're small? They're short? Yeah, they're going to kick my ass, I mean, I don't care. But, uh, but that was slang.

It was slang for there are less than 30 days left. And they're not going to do anything stupid because, you know, try to escape or attack somebody completely screws up their [00:12:00] chance for release. Yeah. But, but, you know, loved, loved Joliet. It was like just this beautiful place. But as you guys know, you know, once we started working there, the cell block was, was pretty depressing.

Uh, and so, you know, here I was this, you know, this young writer that, you know, didn't really know if I could, you know, manifest things and I said, listen, this is all great, but the cell block won't work. It's like, we need a big towering cell block with two sides and light coming in from above and, you know, Kind of a theater, you know, a theater for these, for these actors to be moving around.

And they said, you know, there was a gym at the, at the, at Joliet and they said, Well, let's build in there, uh, we'll build the cell block and, and at this time I'm like, can we do that?

Sarah Wayne Callies: That's where that was. And,

Paul Scheuring: and I think Steve Beers, the executive producer, you know, penciled it out and said, yeah, I think it'll be about 300, 000.

And I heard that. I'm like, oh, well, obviously we're not doing that. And they're like, no, no, we'll do it. And I'm like, you, you can't actually manifest. That's a [00:13:00] rounding error.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We're Fox. Right.

Paul Adelstein: So they go to make the pilot. You don't know if it's going to go to series, but they shoot the pilot and then, uh, sometime over the, whatever, the spring, they get it picked up and then they're like, okay, give us 22 episodes, 21 episodes, whatever it was, at what point are you opening a room?

You said you pitched it out to them, but, uh, how much did you really know of like, this is going to be episode two, this is going to be episode three. Uh, here's the midpoint and, you know, was it catch as catch can or was it, as I suspect, some combination of both?

Paul Scheuring: It was definitely a combination of both, uh, and I think an interesting anecdote is that As I said, I overprepared, so I knew where the show was going.

And subsequent to this show, I met with a lot of serialized, you know, showrunners. And I really was struck by how many of them just made up an intriguing [00:14:00] pilot and then tried to figure out where it went. Uh, and, and that's always been terrifying to me, which is, you know, I mean, ultimately a story's a life support system for third act, right, in the conclusion.

Uh, so I, so I knew where it was going and I had pitched to Fox, I said, look, here's one season, 22 episodes, they break out in episode 13, and then we resolve it at the end of episode 22 and they take down the vice president, right? Uh. Okay. Uh, and they said. But could you stretch that? And I, and I said, um, look, the best I can do is, you know, accordion it to two seasons so that the escape is at the end of season one.

And then season two, they're on the run and then we'll, we'll wrap it up. And, and, you know, in the extremely rare likelihood that it's successful, uh, you know, you guys can figure it out. Um, and, you know, That all came to pass, right? Um, but, [00:15:00] you know, more specifically about, you know, what came for me and what came the writer's room, I certainly had a vision.

I certainly had a structure. But, you know, I mean, nothing beats sitting down with, like, six extremely good minds, like the ones we had in that room, uh, to, to, to, you know, create T Bag, to, uh, create Haywire. Haywire was the one guy that I didn't know was going on the escape. I knew the bad guy was gonna go on the escape, Uh, I didn't know, I didn't know that it was T Bag yet, you know, um, and you know, T Bag obviously, you know, that's, that's a case of a, uh, actor making his own, you know, his own work.

Once Robert Knepper got on screen, you're like, we got to write to this guy. You know, he's just, he's, he's, he's incandescent.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And um, we talk a lot about like the tattoos themselves and some of the details that were so baked in. I mean, we were asking Karen about this, we're like, [00:16:00] does the tattoo feel a little bit like, just keep him covered up until we can zoom into a specific part of it?

Or are you early on going, okay, Cute Poison. Cute Poison,

Paul Adelstein: Alan, like, you had some of these ideas when you pitched the pi Some of them are so good, I imagine they would have been great pilot bait. Like, this thing says Alan on his arm.

Paul Scheuring: Alan I had ahead of time. I would say the rest of them came out of the writer's room.

I don't think there's any doubt that they came out of the writer's room.

Paul Adelstein: Is English Fitz and Percy the actual intersection, or, or, or, uh No. No, no, no.

Paul Scheuring: I think Zac

Paul Adelstein: Estrin

Paul Scheuring: came up with that. God rest him.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Listen, I want to get back to the prison break point, but you also did something that, as far as I know, the rest of the writers room didn't, which is you took a pivot into novels.

I mean, you talk about monastic. Like, I can only imagine that to go from a room with six giant minds pinging stuff back and forth, that that process of writing a novel is so solitary. How was that [00:17:00] as a transition? That's it.

Paul Scheuring: You know, Hollywood's such a 50, 50 thing. It's like, you know, first of all, it's so conditional creatively.

Is that, you know, you want to manifest something, and as an artist, you really want to, you know, tell something that's true, uh, and, you know, that's, Hollywood's not the business to do that, and, uh, and you have to make peace with that, and, uh, you have to ask what your, your ultimate aims are. Uh, and I never really wanted to be involved in Hollywood.

I kind of backed into it, but I always, you know, I always admired the great writers of, of, of literature. And I'm like, you know, I, I'm perfectly fine doing that. Uh, and you know, you can like my book, you can hate it, but that's me. That's me. It's like, that's my legacy. That's who I am. Uh, and you know, I've made some shows, uh, in Hollywood where I'm like, that's so compromised.

It's, there's so many cooks in this kitchen. I made so many compromises myself. And, you know, there's nothing there. It's just [00:18:00] another one sheet, you know, on the million fold one sheets on all these streaming services. And the only thing I remember from any of that that's, that's worthwhile is, is the camaraderie when it, when it works, right?

Uh, but sometimes it's like, you know, am I really just chasing the camaraderie? Uh, and is it worth the price of so much Sturm und Drang? You know, so much bullshit going after all these meetings and dealing with executives and agents and these people that have, you know, forgotten how to speak authentically, you know, to other human beings.

And, uh, I just, I just like authenticity. I like real interface. And, and so the thing I miss is, is that sort of interface, but at the same time, you know, I have that elsewhere in my life in terms of my personal life, my community, my family, that sort of thing. Uh, and then at the same time, I get to feed that, that beast within me, that creative beast that says, you know, Esmo sign, it must be, you know, this must get out, you know.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm hmm. [00:19:00] So, okay, then, I mean, if you are interested or willing, like, I'm curious about then what Prison Break would have looked like maybe absent some of those concessions.

Paul Scheuring: I have to say, uh, Prison Break was this rare thing that, that worked. Um, and, you know, this was never gonna be, you know, Gone with the Wind or, you know, some hard film.

It was always meant to be a ripper. Um, but we wanted it to have some soul and we wanted it to have, you know, integrity and it all kind of worked. And, you know, we got our notes, um, and you know, we bitched and complained about studio interference. But, you know, subsequently on other projects I worked on, I experienced much worse, like way worse.

So when I look at Prison Break, I'm like, they kind of comparatively left us alone, really. Um, and again, because I thought all the actors were spot on for their roles, I [00:20:00] thought all the writers were good people that were good at their job. You know, uh, I was like, you know, we, we brought together a good group of people and we made something really good for, you know, for the genre and for the time.

And so I don't have any regrets. I wouldn't do it differently. I mean, again, if you put a gun to my head, I'm like, just two seasons, just two seasons. It would have been over at the end of season two.

Paul Adelstein: All right, so we got to get back on to season one because people are going to come find us and kill us if we don't ask him stuff about Okay,

Sarah Wayne Callies: so I've got some

Paul Adelstein: good details.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, couple of things. So, you know, you mentioned that Nepper worked himself into a job as you guys are, you know, seeing dailies watching cuts. What were the other surprises, you know, in terms of like, oh, this is this is A relationship that we like, we're gonna write more for both Paul and I came onto the show expecting, you know, I mean, I had a, I had a 1013 steal.

I figured I'd, you know, be recurring. And I think there was, [00:21:00] you know, I think the idea was that like it was a one season role.

Paul Scheuring: Well, you Sarah were you, you were going to be in for the long haul. You were going to be in the long for the long haul. I know that that was a plan. Um, and you know, obviously elated when the dailies are coming back.

It's like, you know, Great, you know, we got another fantastic actors. Um, but also Paul, I'm trying to remember with you because I don't know if you were supposed to die at the end of season one, um, but you were so good that we're like, yeah, this guy's got to, you know, this, this guy's got to stay for, for the run, you know, um, again, talking about an actor making that work.

Cause I mean, one thing that's easy to do is kill off a bad guy and, you know, dovetail in a new bad guy. But that's, that's why, that's why when we cast this show and this is my first, uh, project I did with the casting director, John Papsidera. He's great. Just one of my favorite souls. Um, but I just loved it because he'd read with you guys in the audition and we would crank auditions, [00:22:00] you know, we got hundreds of actors coming through our room for weeks and weeks and we, Paf Zadera is digging deep every time, reading off camera for him and he's like almost going to tears.

He's like acting, like giving you something to work with. And I'm like, dude, you are amazing. But it brings out a better performance from the actors,

Paul Adelstein: right? It makes such a huge difference. And, I mean, and Paps Adair is one of the great ones.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Can we get to fan questions?

Paul Adelstein: Paul, will you come back when we, when we, um, do season two, would you come back?

Talk to us again? Yeah, of course. I like doing this. It's fun. He's like,

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'm never picking up one of your phone calls again.

Paul Adelstein: Um, we're gonna take a short break, and then we're gonna do fan questions. Okay, welcome back with Paul Shearing. Now we're gonna do fan questions.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, let's see. We've got a whole bunch here.

Um Well, this is an interesting one. At Prison Break Collection wants to know, what props or memorabilia do you have from the show? Oh,

Paul Adelstein: yeah. Did you, did you lift anything? Did you boost

Sarah Wayne Callies: anything from the, uh What's that? [00:23:00] Please tell me you have Bellic's cool leather jacket. No,

Paul Scheuring: I don't have much. I have, uh, uh, there's a front page of a newspaper, I think, at the beginning of Season 2, where the guys are crossing a, a park and then, you know, you dolly past somebody and somebody's reading a newspaper about the escape.

I have that on my wall frame. Um, I think there was a watch that was buried out by the, by the, the guards when they were walking the, uh, the circuit night, uh, the Remedie, which was my girlfriend's, uh, last name at the time that became my wife. And so I have that watch. It's just, you know, crop department made this Remedie watch.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Do you know what, actually, this, I'm not doing this intentionally, um, but I happen to have this right next to me. This right here. is, uh, one of the five original paper cranes I'm showing this to them. I'll take a picture and send it. Um, our how did you get that? She stole it. Um, our head of props, I didn't actually, our head of props, Brandon, wrote me this really sweet letter when the show ended season [00:24:00] four.

Um, when the show ended the first time. It's dated March 16th, 2009. Uh, and he was like, you know, five of these, we commissioned five of these, some guy made them. We didn't know how many we'd need, he's like, I always saved them, and I just wanted you to have one. That's

Paul Adelstein: really sweet.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Super sweet. Brando was the best.

We loved Brando.

Paul Adelstein: We did.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, Paul, you see any other questions here that you like?

Paul Adelstein: Yes. At prison break, two Ns, did you have a favorite character to write for? And I don't mean like, we don't mean, let's just, I'll make it more specific. Not like story wise, da da da, but like, is there somebody you just love putting words in?

Like, did you, you loved writing the dialogue.

Paul Scheuring: I mean, you have to say T Bag just because that lets your id come out. Um, you know, bad guys are just so much fun, especially when they're allowed to be fun. Uh, you know, if he was just a straight, you know, all darkness serial killer, I don't think I would [00:25:00] be interested in writing that guy at all.

But, uh, you know, you gotta let out your naughty side, so I think that that was probably the fun one.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, Bida bida bida bida bida. What else was there here? Um, oh, this is interesting. Uh, at scowie with two y's Asked if there was a season that you found that particularly harder to write than others I mean as you say you plant, you know seasons one and two were a part of the plan um Were three and four did they feel?

Different or harder. I mean for crying out loud three was only a half season because that was you know Writer's strike cut short. Oh, right You're doing it without Paul and I, which must have just been an absolute disaster of

Paul Scheuring: a sloth. Well, to be fair, I mean, uh, largely did it without me. I, you know, I had said at the end of season two, it's like, you know, here's, here's kind of the stopping point.

And you'll see this hinge at the end of season two where it's all going to come to a conclusion, right? [00:26:00] Um, and then final commercial break and then all of a sudden this huge pivot. It's like, oh, hold on, they're actually going to go to prison in another prison in Panama, right? Uh, and that was kind of that gratuitous, let's have another season moment, um, and I said, listen, I'll write, I'll write the, the pilot, uh, for season three and, you know, get that, you know, escape from the Panamanian prison story going.

But I largely, uh, wasn't involved creatively in that season, uh, and I, I wasn't creatively involved at all in season four. I don't even know what happened.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. Um, wow. I didn't, thank you for that. I had no idea. Um, And again, that was, that

Paul Scheuring: was, that was, you know, largely by my volition. I just, I, it had run its course and I had moved away from L.

A. at that point and, you know, I was on to other things.

Sarah Wayne Callies: At, and I, this may be fake news, we'll find out, at n underscore dot underscore yo, uh, asks Paul, can you tell us [00:27:00] about the script for 601 that you wrote that never made it to filming? What was your idea for Michael Cera slash Mike? in season six. Did you ever write a script for season six?

Paul Scheuring: Oh, that's fun. That's a fun story. Um, so the idea was in, in Fox had, you know, because we had done the season five that, you know, proved again, be, you know, remunerative for Fox. And they're like, let's do another one. Let's make some more money. And I'm like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do another series. I mean, we broke out of way too many prisons.

Um, but Don Peruse had come to me and she had said, um, well, what if, you know, there's an obsessed person, you know, manipulating Michael, you know, uh, and so I ran with that. And the idea was that you remember the very first frames of the entire series where. He's getting the tattoo, and there's a woman tattoo artist, and she's putting the ink to him, and he says, Sid, you're a, yeah, [00:28:00] Sid, you're a genius, right?

You're an artist, right? Um, and I'm like, well, what if he had a relationship with Sidney, right? Uh, and she became obsessed with him, and she didn't realize what he was doing. And then found out about the escape, and how he became famous, and he developed this relationship with you, Sarah. Uh, and she became this obsessed fan that, uh, that forces him to do something later.

Uh, and I'm like, it's a little bit, uh, hokey, but, uh, I'll write, I'll write the script and hand it off to Fox and let it be. Uh, cause I was kind of interested in going back into the pre story of Michael, uh, And, uh, and then Fox came back with a bunch of notes, uh, and I just said, I don't want to audition for this.

I don't care enough about this. The real integrity of the show is the first couple of seasons. Uh, so I just said respectfully, let's just [00:29:00] stop. I don't, I don't want to try to revise this. Um, and so it, it kind of died there. And in that regard, I also, I'm curious what, you know, what the, what the new iteration, uh, what the conceit of that would be.

Because, again, I mean, you know, the great challenge with this show is that you can't reinvent, I mean, really, you can only break out once in an authentic way. Yeah. And everything subsequent to that just has that smell, you know, that smell of, you guys are just, you know, you know, squeezing the golden goose a little too hard

Paul Adelstein: here.

Um It feels

Sarah Wayne Callies: contrived. That's

Paul Adelstein: right. One of the things that was so incredibly compelling about the tattoo reveal in season one is that this guy has. Every detail of this planned, that it's all premeditated. Obviously, a million wrenches get thrown in those works. But that was what was so fun. He knows the prison, he knows, you know, the guy's a structural engineer, and he's helped redesign this prison.

That's A brilliant [00:30:00] conceit. And you can't do that more than once.

Paul Scheuring: No, and the critical, the critical challenge there was that, uh, you wanted him to obviously be our dynamic lead that you could connect to emotionally and that you could, you know, root for. But you had to keep him at a remove from the audience, right?

Because, you know, half of the mystery of the show was what was actually going on. In Michael Schofield's head, right? Right. Uh, and that's actually a pretty tough, uh, tightrope to walk as a writer, you know, because you can't be completely forthcoming about your, uh, protagonist, uh, motivations, right? And at the same time, you have to get the audience invested in the protagonist's motivation.

Um, but again, you know, so much of that is, you know, you cast Wentworth because, you know, again, talk about casting when we, you know, try to get Michael Schofield, you just had, you know. Hundreds of young Hollywood actors coming in there delivering these lines about, you know, structural integrity and stuff, all this stuff.

And you're just rolling your eyes and you're going, I am the [00:31:00] worst writer ever. I suck. And I mean, this is, this is, this is, I don't know if you guys experienced this, but it's like you write, you, you write, uh, your script, you get greenlit, you start casting and everyone comes in and you're like, no one can read it.

I suck. And then all of a sudden that one actor comes in. And you're like, Oh my God, I can write. Uh, and in the case of Prison Break, you know, we, we cast for two months and we, you know, we, you have a fixed start date, right? It was like, we're starting on whatever it was, Sarah said, you know, November 1st or whatever it is.

Uh, and it's like, dude, it's October 27th and we still don't have a lead for this show. And then Wentworth Miller comes in, it's like, oh shit, manna from heaven. Like I can write anything, any like polysyllabic, paragraphic thing and put it in his mouth and he will kill it. I'm like, unbelievable, unbelievable.

And

Sarah Wayne Callies: he was unknown. I mean, like he'd done the human stain, but you know, it's, it's [00:32:00] always interesting to me. You guys ended up with a lot of actors who had very, I mean, I had almost no on camera experience. Like, you guys really took some swings at people rather than casting it safe and going here are the people with the resumes, you know?

I mean, I, I think I remember, I don't know if it was you or Don, but somebody was like, you got cast because you said this line. In the, I don't remember what it was, but in the audition. And nobody else read that line in a way that made it sound like it made sense. And I was like, oh, and it was years before I would sit on the other side of it as a director going, Have we just seen 40 people who can't say this line?

I know, right? And have it make it sound like a human being?

Paul Adelstein: Yep. Um, okay, we have one more fan question for you, which is Ellen Davies 1 says, Did you have any storylines planned that you ended up doing?

Paul Scheuring: Off the top of my head, I'm struggling right now. I do know there were some really No, no, it's okay. Yeah, I'm no, but I think the answer is yes, but it's a bad yes, which is I can't record it as [00:33:00] right.

Well, but I do remember Yeah, that's the

Sarah Wayne Callies: one where haywire becomes the president United States.

Paul Scheuring: No, I don't think it was that but because

Sarah Wayne Callies: I gotta tell you Every time I see Silas we're Mitchell on camera. I'm like more hair wire, please Fucking good. So

Paul Scheuring: we

Sarah Wayne Callies: gave

Paul Scheuring: him we gave him extra work. We gave him extra work He was you know, he was always yeah escape, but he was so fun.

They were like, I think we're going to kill him early in season two and we're like, do we got to let this dude run for a bit and eat some ice cream?

Paul Adelstein: Okay, we're going to take a quick break and we're going to come back and wrap it up with some fun questions. Our traditional questions for Paul. All right, we're back.

That is our show. We're going to, Paul, we're going to let you go because we'll have you back soon. That is our show for today folks. Thank you for being with us And if you want to catch up on the watch party episodes follow the patreon link on the show page wherever you're listening right now We have more bonus content coming up involving our call in line.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You guys are the best Thank you so much for calling in for [00:34:00] sending us your questions on Instagram sending us your fan art listening to the show It's just fucking beautiful and We love you And Paul we have two final questions that we ask all of our guests. The first is Is If you were on death row, what would your last meal be?

Paul Adelstein: Sushi. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You're the second sushi! That's fantastic. Really? I don't

Paul Adelstein: remember the other sushi. Okay. Yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think it was cutlets. I'm not sure.

Paul Adelstein: Uh huh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um.

Paul Adelstein: From any particular place? I'm sure you have a place up in Nar Cal that you like. But, yes, you'd get a full sushi platter, full sushi platter.

Sarah Wayne Callies: All the raw fish.

Okay,

Paul Adelstein: and our second fill in the blank is a fill in the blank question. And it's, it comes in the form of advice to our listeners, which is don't get sent to prison, folks. But if you do get sent to prison, remember to blank.

Paul Scheuring: Carve a shank out of your toothbrush [00:35:00] and carry it with you at all times.

Sarah Wayne Callies: There you go.

Paul Scheuring: There you go.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Sage advice.