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Hello and welcome to Revolutionize Your Love Life.
Do you want to know more about love relationships?
What makes them work?
How to create the one of your best dreams?
Do you want to be in a really healthy,
juicy love relationship?
In these podcasts, we will give ideas and
practical advice to light your way.
Whether you're looking for a love partner,
already in a relationship, you wish could be better.
Or leaving one that has run its course.
There will be something to inspire, empower and support you.
Revolutionize Your Love Life is a fortnightly podcast
where you will access the knowledge and wisdom of love,
experts and relationship coaches from across the world
to help you find true fulfillment in love.
I am your host, Heather Garbett.
Welcome.
How do you know you are in toxic relationship?
In this podcast, we'll be exploring toxicity,
narcissism and how you can recognize toxic behavior.
This is part of our series,
looking at the qualities of healthy and unhealthy relationships.
I am Heather Garbett.
And I am Eva Andriessen.
And together, we are relationship coaches.
So, do you feel unhappy in your relationship?
Or do you even feel that you suffer
and maybe the first sign of toxic relationship?
Because it's actually not normal to feel fear,
obligation or guilt in relationships.
Usually we call it fog, that we experience fog,
like that we can't even breathe
because we feel that fear, obligation or guilt.
And it's really like not normal to have the fear
that you can't say something or that you have worried
about your partner, we react on your request, for example.
Yes, and the fog is also what we experience in our minds.
Where we can't think what is reasonable
and what isn't reasonable, if our needs are too much.
You know, there are basic needs
that we all need to have fulfilled.
And they are for things like respect, love being listened to,
having our needs recognized,
having our good qualities recognized,
having our requests recognized.
And if those things aren't present
and with a willingness to resolve conflict
and have to have several conversations, if we need to,
what have we got a toxic relationship?
Yes, and sometimes we doubt that we can have this,
that is it really possible to have something
but we just said in our relationship,
because sometimes when we didn't have it as kids,
we don't expect to have it in our relationships.
Because if we experience that fear already
when we were little, or that not really safety
or we were feeling guilty of because of our parents
were angry all the time, we just take this
into our relationships.
And actually, we don't know what is healthy and normal
because we experience a lot of punishments already
and a lot of criticism in our childhood.
So it's the thing that the toxic relationship
is not only what we experience with our partners
in love relationship, but we also can experience
with our parents, with our siblings,
even with the boss or calling in your workplace.
So there is, you can explain it through all the society,
actually through the research,
I heard that there is about 30% toxic
in our society.
- Yeah.
And there's a spectrum of that, I suppose,
in some ways you could see it's called bullying.
And that can be literal in terms of physical harm.
It can be emotional in terms of manipulative behavior,
manipulating your feelings against you
and that can have a mental effect as well.
It can be financial, it can be restricting your freedoms.
There are lots of ways it can be expressed.
- Yeah.
And I would say that like the hardest experience
what we have in relationship is when your partner
or even your colleague or sibling is narcissist.
Because this is really a relationship
about power and control.
You know, and it's so confusing
because narcissists, people are usually very charming.
And at the beginning of the relationship day,
you experience love bombing, you experience like,
"Oh, this is my soul man.
"He is so nice to me.
"He is like so great person."
And suddenly it changed tonight, a matter of hell.
And you are confused.
What is wrong?
Usually people say, "Oh, what is wrong with me?
"He changed.
"I need to be better.
"I need to prove it.
"I'm good that he's good again."
And usually we take responsibility
because usually an artistic people
actually choose the first people with high empathy.
Do you agree Heather?
- Yes, absolutely.
They'll choose people who are empathic.
No, I count myself amongst that.
Because we're likely to want to please.
We want to take care of.
We really feel these for the other person.
And we want them to feel good.
And we're likely as well to be potentially
a little bit sacrificial.
So we are ripe for the picking for a narcissist.
And I loved what you said, Abba,
about them really knowing who we are and how to choose us.
- Yeah, usually I choose very, very good people.
When I could see through my experience with my clients
that they know who to choose
because they need someone,
which is really good because they want them
as their source of their like improvement
or like they like need somebody
who can really do a lot of stuff for them.
So they need very strong and reliable person.
But actually because of that effect of the narcissism,
usually that people can't stay so like in their self,
in their true self.
Because they experience later on
a lot of gaslighting or punishment or humiliation
or high criticism because it's what narcissists do.
And we take it personally.
We take responsibility for a lot of stuff as the empath,
empath people.
Actually, we got very down
and we start to completely doubt ourselves.
Even if the people were very confident at the beginning,
they start to completely doubt ourselves.
And if I can add one more thing,
it's like I can see how it's like dangerous,
really dangerous for also for our health.
Because I know so many people,
they ended up with depressions,
very back pains, cancer or other,
like other illnesses or pain.
- Yeah.
The illnesses of huge stress.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
And the narcissists is a very insecure person.
So they are at all costs going to protect themselves
because if they feel in any way shamed or blamed
or held to be responsible for their behavior,
they come out really defensive and attacking.
They can't bear, they would collapse and cave in
if they took some responsibility
and admitted any sort of being at fault.
So when they come out gaslighting or punishing,
it's from a fight or flight mechanism
which is so powerful for an empath to receive.
Just huge, just huge.
- Yeah.
- And the beginning piece where they're love bombing you,
they're very highly skilled at listening and understanding
what it is that you want from a relationship.
And they can manage that for maybe six months or so.
- Even longer sometimes I heard,
even like for like even two, three years.
- Yeah, a couple of years, yeah, because so it's so dangerous
and invisible, but they are actually red flags hidden here.
We can notice that I bring, it would like to name them,
let's say about them.
- Some red flags, I think.
- Go on.
- Which we can notice already from the beginning,
but they are so invisible if we don't know about it, yeah?
- Yes.
I would look for if they walk their talk with other people.
For me, I always look at how they treat waiting staff
at tables, how they negotiate if something is wrong,
if they go into a real victim position
and come out aggressively.
I mean, I know a lot of people have these qualities
when they're insecure, but the quality of it is sort of
like ruthless, absolute determination.
And you'll notice that even in the early stages,
you'll notice how they treat other people and be a bit,
what?
You know, did they really do that?
But you'll probably suppress it
because they're being so charming to you.
I think there's even a book called
Charming Men Make Dangerous Lovers.
Charming women do as well.
- Yes.
Yeah.
And also sometimes, do they already start
to control or manipulate your eye from the beginning?
Like, oh, maybe don't take these deaths
that other deaths are better.
Or we go to this restaurant, this is the best restaurant.
They always disagree with what you say,
but in nicely like, vague.
And suddenly, it's rising everything
it's according what they want.
Yeah, so that is also very subtle.
It's sometimes like because they do it
in that bombarding way.
So that you can't see that it's something like control
already from the right beginning.
- And there's the steady peeling you away
from any other people in your life
that will love and support you.
So they'll go into a victim state
when I don't know if you're out with your girlfriends.
They'll come and text you all evening saying,
"How could you leave me?
"How could you go out?"
And then other times it'll be,
"Are you really putting your mum and dad before me?"
Before us.
If it's a real relationship,
you wouldn't be doing that.
So it's that subtle stuff and non-too subtle.
If you see it at the beginning,
it's like a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.
But by the time you've had the water dripped on the stone
in that nice way that you're talking about,
"Oh, not that dress, this dress."
Then you're like the proverbial frog being boiled in water.
You don't notice when it's cold
and you're dead by the time it's really heated up.
- I like this expression, yeah.
It's so true actually in this case
because it's so long, invisible
that actually I people are in the end
like boiling them so in hot water.
But at the beginning, they warm it up very slowly.
Another thing, it's like change your mind
in the first days or say no to stuff
or say what you don't like about what they said, for example.
You will always see the reaction.
And sometimes what we do at the beginning of relationships,
we ignore the zet flags
because we like say to ourselves,
"Oh, yes, we're under good qualities."
Yeah, but really observe what is happening.
How do you feel around it?
Because I would, I think that it's so important
to really create hell's relationship.
It's be connected to yourself, to your feelings,
to your needs, to be clear what you really want.
And if you are disconnected, you can't realize
and you can't realize and recognize this red flags.
Because, yeah.
Yeah, you become complicit in it.
By giving away your power consistently,
by not speaking up, by not honoring your own feelings
and needs, by putting them first more or less exclusively,
then you're making sure the relationship
turns out like that.
If they weren't like that already,
if you keep doing that, they're likely to get worse
and be more like that.
Yeah, definitely.
So really, be aware what is happening with you,
what do you want to create in your relationship?
Because we, me and I had a very nice stand
for healthy relationship, equal relationship.
And actually, in toxic relationship,
there is always the domination.
It can be like the one dominate with aggression
or criticism or punishments.
And this can be also that more unrecognized domination
but like secret domination, yeah?
That you stop talking
or like you can send messages through kids
and other stuff of the passive domination,
which is also very dangerous
and also doesn't belong to the healthy relationship.
And if you have this pattern maybe from your childhood
and you want to work on it,
because you know that it's like your pattern,
you are willing to work on it.
But the unhealthy person or toxic person
doesn't want to do anything with that.
Because they are not ever of the impact in my heaven you.
They don't bother because they only care about themselves.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Yes, I was thinking a little bit more
out the qualities in empaths
which make us a bit susceptible.
And I think it's because we're so
just having and caring and feeling for others people.
We might have a little bit of grandiosity
that we can really rescue others.
And if we're going into a relationship
with somebody who's narcissistic and toxic,
we might think, well, we're the one to heal them.
I'm sure we can work through some of this terrible stuff
that's happened to them.
You know, their ex-wives are always out to get them.
You know, that awful bank manager
who's persecuting them for an unpaid loan
or the law is after them, they've got it all wrong.
We may believe all those stories and think,
this poor person has had so much happen to them.
How can I help?
Whereas in fact, they've had all that happen to them
because they behaved so badly.
We're responsibly, negatively.
Yeah.
And also sometimes they really lie.
There are big liars and cradle-to-tof stories
which are not true.
And they like to be victims to get the power.
So if they know that you want,
they can actually feel that you can save them
or that you want to have this rescue pattern within you.
So they would play victim to really get you, you know?
And always, I think that it's also what they use
as they're like another trick.
Like if they feel that they are losing you
or that you realize them, they start to be victims
or like, "Oh, poor me.
Nobody likes me.
I am happy that you like me, that you support me."
And of course, they are so good to hook you in.
Yeah, they really hook you.
And it's so hard to leave these relationships
because you're really hooked in, how we say it.
Because there is so big confusion
between their great part and the horrible part.
And we don't know what to do with that
because when we want to leave,
then we usually start to behave again very nicely.
Yeah.
- Yes, they are very seductive.
They're very seductive.
There's a phrase which is called narcissistic supply.
And it's when you leave them,
they feel the lack of the supply
that you're giving them, which is for love
and nourishment and adoration,
which is what they crave,
some sort of recognition of their grandeur really,
how important they are,
which is obviously what's been lacking in their childhood.
But by projecting that out onto you,
they're never gonna get it.
They're never gonna get it.
You can't supply it.
- And the thing is, you can't change them.
They will not change.
This is the thing that so many people try to change them
and help them and save them and support them.
Actually, what I heard from so many different people
and leaders of this topic in the world,
that it's not possible.
They can't change actually in this time, time, life,
lifetime, because they don't have the self-reflection.
They don't have the empathy.
They actually, it's so strong habits
that they created to protect themselves,
that they can't really change it.
And so many people try it.
And it's really not possible.
And I know I have so many clients
who want to be the first one,
who will change them or support them in their change.
And there's always so much disappointment in that.
What do you experience with your clients?
How do you see it?
- Absolutely.
If you feel, you know,
when you're going into a relationship,
I've seen this in my clients, for sure.
If you're going into a relationship
with somebody that has great need,
there's usually some drama in the background,
either with exes or situations or immigration,
you know, something where they really need you.
And you're the answer to their prayers
and you're so wonderful.
And then the envious attacks come in,
just pulling you down,
because they can't afford to lose you.
They want to really hold on to you.
- Yeah, and also, sorry.
- Yeah, I hope so.
- They also idolize you.
So when you actually don't fulfill their expectations,
which is impossible to fulfill,
they get so disappointed.
Disappointment is appointed that they start
to cause lightning or punish you or criticize you
because you feel very bad and wrong,
because you want to be that person.
But it's impossible because there is nothing good for them.
Everything can be better.
Everything could be even more like much more better
or different way or better way.
Or in like, for example,
if the fooder is too much vegetable
or not enough vegetable or wrong combination of vegetables.
- Yes, keeping you on the wrong foot.
- Yeah, definitely.
- Diminishing your confidence so you don't go away.
- Yeah, this is the thing.
And also sometimes when the kids are involved,
and again, they actually don't care so much
about the impact of their behavior on kids.
So it's again very hard to leave these people
because they use the control and power over the kids
to get control over you.
So yeah, if you realize that your end toxic relationship
and even with any narcissist,
it's always better to search for the support, help,
because it's hard to hold it on yourself.
And it's so sometimes important to actually know
what you face who is in front of you
because I think so many people don't know
that it can happen to them.
And then it's like we feel a power less or like a whole plus
with that situation because what to do now?
Yeah, so seek for help and support me
and our head can support you in this topic,
in this toxic relationships.
- And even if you've left before and gone back
because of the power of this manipulation,
you still can leave.
Now, your friends may be tired of seeing you come and go,
but if you can really resolve to leave,
don't tell your partner that you're leaving.
Just arrange it all beforehand, get the right support
from the Women's Aid organization in the UK can help.
There are lots of places that you can go
that will really support you to find a secure
and safe place to go and really involve your friends
and safe members of your family.
If it's anything connected with your family and leave.
- Yeah, and sometimes we really need to build
our self-confidence to do it
and have realized some financial reserves or support.
So it's important to be ready for this big step.
And also you need really be brave
and like we have somebody who will support you to do it
and then build new life from the right beginning.
And it's another topic probably.
But yeah, so today it was mostly about how to realize
the divine toxic relationship.
Because so many people don't know that it even exists,
that it's not normal to expense so much guilt,
obligation or fear in relationships.
And it's not normal to be gaslighted or punished.
And especially that it's not normal to expense violence.
- Thank you, Evan, that's lovely.
And watch out for our series.
We're going to be doing quite a few in a row
around healthy and unhealthy relationships.
Thank you so much for listening.
My website is www.ethergarbitt.com.
And Evers is...
- Everandriessen.com.
- There we go.
So thank you for listening.
Have a good day.
Bye for now.
- Thank you so much for listening
to this episode of Revolutionize Your Love Life.
I'd like to know what has been your biggest takeaway
from this conversation.
- Do take a minute and share this with us
and visit us on our Facebook page.
- You can connect with me personally
on my email at Heather@heathergarbitt.com.
If you can think of someone who will benefit
from listening to this podcast,
please do share it with them.
If you have any feedback on how I can improve it,
please do reach out to me as I'm always keen to learn more.
- Thank you so much again for listening.
And we'll meet again on the next episode
of Revolutionize Your Love Life.
♪ You are good ♪
♪ You are good for my heart ♪
♪ You are good for my heart ♪
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