**AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED TRANSCRIPT THAT MAY CONTAIN TYPOS***

(00:00:01): In an argument about frequency of sex,

(00:00:03): my now ex-husband told me he had been holding a grudge against me for not making

(00:00:07): more of an effort to pleasure him during the postpartum period.

(00:00:11): He felt that he deserved that as a reward for taking on more household tasks.

(00:00:16): When I reminded him that I couldn't walk for three months without assistance,

(00:00:19): he said,

(00:00:20): you had two hands and a mouth.

(00:00:23): Another one.

(00:00:24): My ex-husband told me that it was disgusting to see milk coming out of my breasts

(00:00:28): when I was nursing our children because they were sexual objects that belonged to him.

(00:00:33): He was 100% in favor of breastfeeding, but only if he didn't have to see it happening.

(00:00:39): I had to go to another room to nurse.

(00:00:41): I finally got sick of it and told him he should leave the room if he was so bothered by it.

(00:00:47): This is the Liberating Motherhood podcast.

(00:00:50): I'm Zahn Valines, a writer and activist.

(00:00:54): I publish a bonus podcast once a month for paid Substack subscribers.

(00:00:59): So if you're interested in getting more content, go to zawn.substack.com and subscribe.

(00:01:06): I am here with my husband.

(00:01:08): Hey, my name is Jeff.

(00:01:09): I'm a civil rights attorney.

(00:01:10): Zahn's husband and I'm here to help with this podcast.

(00:01:14): We'll continue to do so for as long as I am useful.

(00:01:17): So this podcast is going to be about what is wrong with men and sex.

(00:01:23): And I want to do a little bit of framing of this issue because there's all kinds of

(00:01:28): sexual problems that a couple can have.

(00:01:31): But one thing that we see over and over again and that all of the data show us is that.

(00:01:38): Women are less happy in their relationships than men are.

(00:01:42): And so what ends up happening is women lose interest in having sex with partners

(00:01:46): that they are not happy with.

(00:01:49): So it's typically the man wanting sex and the woman not wanting sex.

(00:01:55): There can be other dynamics.

(00:01:56): There can be abusive dynamics where it's the reverse.

(00:02:00): And we'll talk about that in a subsequent podcast.

(00:02:02): But for this podcast,

(00:02:03): we're going to talk about the most common dynamic,

(00:02:06): which is that a man becomes progressively more sexually coercive because his

(00:02:12): partner is not happy with him and is therefore not wanting to have sex.

(00:02:16): That must be because of genetics and evolutionary biology.

(00:02:20): Certainly, there must not be any other explanation.

(00:02:22): You know, I bet it is.

(00:02:23): We just shouldn't even do this podcast.

(00:02:24): It's, you know, women have their estrogen and their estrogen makes them not interested in sex.

(00:02:29): The fact that they have an entire organ devoted to sexual pleasure and can have

(00:02:32): limitless orgasms definitely does not mean anything.

(00:02:36): So we're joking and we don't believe in biological explanations for this.

(00:02:41): We also think that biological explanations for this can be really harmful.

(00:02:45): Here's what that looks like.

(00:02:46): Well...

(00:02:47): Men just want more sex than women.

(00:02:49): And so it's inevitable that he's going to want more sex than her.

(00:02:52): And that means she's just going to have to have sex with him sometimes when she doesn't want to.

(00:02:58): But she's not a blow up doll.

(00:02:59): She doesn't exist for his pleasure.

(00:03:01): And the couple needs to work together to have the amount of sex that they both want.

(00:03:07): Yeah,

(00:03:08): it's important to not go to biological and genetic mostly bullshit when there are

(00:03:15): clear explanations right in front of you.

(00:03:17): And I think one of the reason people go to those explanations is because they want

(00:03:21): to justify their own problems because it's hard to admit how bad the problem is in

(00:03:27): your own life.

(00:03:28): So maybe we should look at how bad the problem is in other people's marriages and

(00:03:33): make everyone realize that they're not alone.

(00:03:36): Yeah,

(00:03:36): just I mean,

(00:03:37): generally,

(00:03:37): these genetically determinist arguments across the board are used to justify the

(00:03:42): status quo and to remove responsibility from individuals and society.

(00:03:47): Another area where we see it all the time is that girls are socialized differently from birth.

(00:03:53): There's tons of data about this.

(00:03:55): People will make different attributions to a crying baby depending upon what they

(00:03:59): think the child's gender is.

(00:04:01): And then after years and years of gender socialization,

(00:04:06): the parents throw up their hands and they say,

(00:04:07): I don't know why she likes Pink and Barbie and I don't know why he's so aggressive

(00:04:12): when they've socialized them into this.

(00:04:14): So this stuff about anything men or women do being innate does not make sense until

(00:04:20): we have removed all the systemic pressures that force and coerce men and women to conform.

(00:04:28): It also doesn't make sense because –

(00:04:30): The only thing those innateness arguments do is get you to a generality.

(00:04:34): Yeah.

(00:04:35): And what does a generality tell you about a specific person in a specific context?

(00:04:39): Not a whole hell of a lot because there's plenty of other information that you can

(00:04:42): gather that would make that generality basically useless.

(00:04:47): Even if women did innately like sex less than men or want sex less than men,

(00:04:52): why is the argument that women must then conform to what men want?

(00:04:57): Why isn't it that,

(00:04:58): oh,

(00:04:58): well,

(00:04:58): you know,

(00:04:59): women just aren't going to want sex as much as men,

(00:05:01): and so men are just going to have to accept that?

(00:05:02): Well, it's because men make that argument.

(00:05:05): Exactly.

(00:05:05): Because these arguments always benefit the dominant class.

(00:05:09): So I want to talk a little bit about how bad the typical heterosexual sex life really is.

(00:05:17): It's probably a lot worse than you've heard.

(00:05:20): Sometime 10 or 20 years ago,

(00:05:22): this idea that couples on average have sex three to five times a week made its way

(00:05:27): into the dominant culture.

(00:05:29): There's no evidence supporting that.

(00:05:31): There's no evidence supporting that even for young, unmarried new couples.

(00:05:36): That's just not reality.

(00:05:39): Survey after survey shows that sexual frequency is much, much less than that.

(00:05:44): And I did my own survey on what sex is like for heterosexual couples,

(00:05:49): because what we see in the scientific literature all the time is

(00:05:54): is that they only ask very surface-level questions.

(00:05:58): How often are you having sex?

(00:06:00): And sometimes, are you satisfied with it?

(00:06:02): Because we don't really care about women's experiences beyond that.

(00:06:06): So I wanted to know what women were saying and what women were experiencing.

(00:06:11): So I asked women to rate their satisfaction with their sex lives on a 10-point scale.

(00:06:18): 70% gave a score of 3 or lower.

(00:06:23): So it's no wonder they don't want to have sex.

(00:06:26): Like, it starts there.

(00:06:28): That's really pathetic, though.

(00:06:30): Right?

(00:06:31): What kind of sex is that?

(00:06:33): Yeah.

(00:06:34): Well, and these guys obviously know their partners are unsatisfied if it's that bad.

(00:06:40): You would think.

(00:06:41): But... So I gathered some quotes from this survey.

(00:06:47): I had, like, a free answer section where women could just tell me whatever they wanted to.

(00:06:52): Here's some of what they told me.

(00:06:54): He wants sex even though he is unwilling to meet my needs in the relationship.

(00:06:59): He thinks his need for sex is more important than my sleep, being kind to his children, and my needs.

(00:07:06): My partner ignores me until he wants sex.

(00:07:09): I don't want to have sex with a person I don't like.

(00:07:13): He always wants what he wants when he wants it and thinks he's entitled to it.

(00:07:17): He has accidentally done things to me that I have not consented to and made excuses

(00:07:21): to justify his actions as totally innocent misunderstandings.

(00:07:25): How do you accidentally do something?

(00:07:27): Yeah, I mean, this is like... That's gaslighting, right?

(00:07:30): It's not a term I like to throw around because I think it's often overused by

(00:07:35): people who don't know exactly what it means.

(00:07:37): But I accidentally did that.

(00:07:39): What did he accidentally do?

(00:07:40): Well, I mean, this is like weaponized incompetence applied to sex.

(00:07:43): Like, I can't tell the difference between the vagina and the butthole.

(00:07:46): I assume that's what she's talking about.

(00:07:48): Yeah, there's a lot of like, oh, oops, I just put it in your butt.

(00:07:51): And then like, oh, oops, I couldn't hear you when you said stop.

(00:07:55): There's no oops here.

(00:07:58): When I do say yes,

(00:07:59): often not really wanting to,

(00:08:00): his performance is terrible,

(00:08:02): leaving me angry that I even bothered.

(00:08:05): My husband is not great at sex and doesn't seem to want to learn.

(00:08:08): He takes it personally if I talk about things I would like to work on.

(00:08:12): Well, he should take it personally because it's his fault.

(00:08:15): He could fix it.

(00:08:16): Anyway, he is sexually coercive and selfish, and he raped me and assaulted me multiple times.

(00:08:22): Whoa.

(00:08:23): I mean, how many of these women aren't calling things that happened to them rape?

(00:08:32): I'm working on a survey right now where I tested that.

(00:08:35): Asked women specifically, and I haven't released the data yet.

(00:08:38): I'll be releasing it around the time that this podcast comes out.

(00:08:42): So I asked women two different questions.

(00:08:44): Has someone ever forced you to have sex that you didn't want to have?

(00:08:49): And has someone ever raped you?

(00:08:51): And women said in,

(00:08:53): I think,

(00:08:53): 57% of cases that someone had forced them to have sex that they didn't want to have.

(00:08:59): And in 35% of cases, they said someone had raped them.

(00:09:02): So this is something called unacknowledged rape,

(00:09:05): where it's rape,

(00:09:05): it meets the legal definition of rape,

(00:09:07): but women don't acknowledge it as such.

(00:09:09): And I think that there's a lot of that happening, especially in marriage.

(00:09:12): Why don't they acknowledge it?

(00:09:14): It's too painful.

(00:09:15): You don't want to believe that your husband raped you.

(00:09:17): But also, I think that there's this idea that like I'm not a good enough victim.

(00:09:22): Maybe I deserved it.

(00:09:23): Maybe if I'd given him what he wanted.

(00:09:25): I think it has to do with how they feel about themselves and their partners.

(00:09:30): Yeah,

(00:09:30): I think a lot of abuse victims don't want to admit a lot of the things that

(00:09:33): happened to them because there's a lot of shame surrounding it.

(00:09:37): That's true in a lot of different contexts too, but I think it's specifically true here.

(00:09:41): I also think that they don't see it as rape because,

(00:09:45): I mean,

(00:09:47): up until,

(00:09:49): I don't know how many years ago it was.

(00:09:50): I think it was like 1997.

(00:09:52): Spousal rape.

(00:09:52): Yeah.

(00:09:53): Yeah, and there's a lot of men who still think that they're allowed to do that.

(00:09:58): I mean, 1997.

(00:10:00): It was legal to rape your wife.

(00:10:02): It means our mothers were getting legally raped.

(00:10:04): We're talking about one state.

(00:10:06): Different states have different laws, different countries.

(00:10:08): But the culture up into the 2000s tolerated this and taught women this.

(00:10:16): And a lot of these respondents are women who were teenagers at that time.

(00:10:19): Well, and let's be clear, we still do tolerate it.

(00:10:22): Over and over again,

(00:10:24): women will have rape that they actually acknowledge as such,

(00:10:27): where their partners will get extremely violent with them,

(00:10:30): sometimes in front of their children.

(00:10:32): And they go to a domestic violence shelter.

(00:10:34): They try to get divorced.

(00:10:35): They tell the judge in their custody case.

(00:10:39): And the judge says, well, you know, what he did to you isn't really relevant to the kids.

(00:10:44): That does sound like something a judge would say in that context.

(00:10:49): So last one.

(00:10:51): I love my spouse, and he tries, but sex is mostly for him.

(00:10:56): And it's a rare and extra bonus if it's good for me, not the norm or expectation.

(00:11:01): I have never been forced to have sex,

(00:11:03): but I have also sometimes wondered,

(00:11:05): couldn't he have just masturbated in the shower instead?

(00:11:07): Yes, he could have.

(00:11:09): He could have.

(00:11:10): I think this captures kind of the typical sex experience thing.

(00:11:14): So what does it mean to try in this context?

(00:11:16): I would like to ask him,

(00:11:17): what are you doing to try with the limitless resources you have at your fingertips?

(00:11:23): Right.

(00:11:24): Stop watching porn videos.

(00:11:26): They aren't going to teach you anything.

(00:11:28): And start learning how to actually have good sex.

(00:11:30): You might actually have to talk to your wife and figure out what kind of stuff she's into.

(00:11:34): And she probably won't want to tell you because most times... She doesn't trust you.

(00:11:38): You're a disgusting piece of shit.

(00:11:40): But for the times that you're not,

(00:11:42): people are real weird about talking about sex and real,

(00:11:45): like,

(00:11:46): shameful.

(00:11:47): And I think there's...

(00:11:49): There's a lot of problems there, but I don't know what he's trying to do.

(00:11:53): It's really not that hard to start laying the groundwork for a healthy and

(00:11:58): productive sex life,

(00:12:00): especially for the men.

(00:12:01): There's a book called She Comes First.

(00:12:05): I'll save it all for you.

(00:12:06): That's all you need.

(00:12:08): If you just follow that rule, things will improve, prove drastically.

(00:12:11): And if you can't do that, it's because you lack self-control.

(00:12:14): And if you, if you lack self-control, there's not a secret.

(00:12:17): You just lack self-control.

(00:12:18): You need to slow down.

(00:12:19): Sometimes you need to stop.

(00:12:20): Sometimes this, this is like basic shit, but like.

(00:12:23): But this is like there are books about this.

(00:12:25): Yeah.

(00:12:26): But I think this dynamic is interesting because it it kind of captures what's going

(00:12:31): on elsewhere in couples relationships where fundamentally the man lacks self-control.

(00:12:37): He doesn't want to control his emotions.

(00:12:39): He doesn't want to control his temper.

(00:12:41): He doesn't want to have to learn how to do anything differently.

(00:12:44): There's this idea where men just present in their relationships as here I am.

(00:12:48): Accept me as I am.

(00:12:50): And women are constantly trying to improve themselves.

(00:12:53): And the men would never accept their partners as they are.

(00:12:59): Yeah.

(00:13:00): I just don't understand.

(00:13:01): I'm still stuck on this.

(00:13:03): He tries, in quotes.

(00:13:06): So she obviously doesn't believe he's trying.

(00:13:09): Yeah,

(00:13:10): if you want to follow up on that comment,

(00:13:12): Ryder,

(00:13:13): and tell us what you meant by tries,

(00:13:15): I think we're both really curious.

(00:13:17): And I think that it would be helpful to hear from people whose partners say that

(00:13:22): they're trying or who used to think their partners were trying.

(00:13:26): We would just really like to hear what that looks like.

(00:13:28): So please comment or email me because I want to know how that dynamic goes.

(00:13:33): And there is one that we skipped here.

(00:13:35): He continues to do things to my body that I said I don't like.

(00:13:38): Using spit as lube, sticking dry fingers, test for wetness.

(00:13:42): Tell him this definitely isn't there.

(00:13:43): He's like, if you need to stick your fingers in to test, it's not there.

(00:13:46): Like, that's pretty simple.

(00:13:49): I don't like oral sex done to me because he's bad at it.

(00:13:51): And despite trying, I can't get him to do it correctly.

(00:13:54): What the fuck is he doing?

(00:13:58): He's probably doing it for like 30 seconds and then being like, okay.

(00:14:02): Not getting what I want.

(00:14:04): Yeah.

(00:14:05): Okay.

(00:14:06): We'll move on to it.

(00:14:08): Okay.

(00:14:09): So why do women not want sex with their partners?

(00:14:12): Because that's kind of at the core of this.

(00:14:14): And I was – Jeff and I talked about this before.

(00:14:19): One of the most common pieces of positive feedback I get from men is actually about sex.

(00:14:24): I get a number of emails from men who say that I have helped them improve their sex

(00:14:28): lives by educating them about what they should be doing differently.

(00:14:33): And that's nice, but –

(00:14:36): You know, there's all these articles about what do women want, what makes women happy.

(00:14:41): We're talking about women like they're mice, like they have no way of communicating.

(00:14:46): You know, women typically can talk and communicate in other ways and tell you what they like.

(00:14:51): And so it bothers me.

(00:14:53): That these men have not been able to hear from their partners what they need,

(00:14:56): but they're able to hear it from me.

(00:14:58): And I think that's I think that's alarming.

(00:15:01): And basically what I'm telling men is that sex is not just for men.

(00:15:06): Sex has to be appealing and you have to treat your partner with decency to get her to want sex.

(00:15:11): And the fact that men have to be taught that is so puzzling to me.

(00:15:18): Yeah, I think that's because men just think sex is really just masturbation.

(00:15:25): They don't understand that the person they're having sex with...

(00:15:29): Well,

(00:15:30): let me say something about these figures that we have in front of us first,

(00:15:35): though.

(00:15:36): What I see here, why women don't want sex.

(00:15:39): The two highest numbers, I'm tired and my partner doesn't do their fair share around the house.

(00:15:44): 51% fair share, 79% I'm tired.

(00:15:48): I think I'm tired as an excuse.

(00:15:50): Because if you really want sex, you're not too tired.

(00:15:53): I mean, obviously there's times when, you know, the kids are beating us down or whatever.

(00:15:58): But I think she just doesn't want sex and doesn't want to overcome the tiredness.

(00:16:04): And the reason she doesn't want it is because the sex is awful.

(00:16:07): But I think we're hearing from a lot of women who are tired in a way that is not familiar to you and me.

(00:16:14): Because, like, you and I are sharing the burden.

(00:16:17): They're tired...

(00:16:19): in the way that they have not slept more than like an hour or two uninterrupted for months or years.

(00:16:26): They don't get a break.

(00:16:27): They don't ever get any downtime.

(00:16:29): They don't ever get any time where there's not someone demeaning them.

(00:16:33): So I think that the I'm tired captures a lot.

(00:16:37): It captures being really beaten down by your partner and by the life that your

(00:16:41): partner is forcing you to live.

(00:16:42): Right.

(00:16:44): Yeah, I agree with that.

(00:16:46): All right.

(00:16:47): So you mentioned the statistics.

(00:16:50): So let's get into the statistics.

(00:16:51): So I asked women what their reasons are for not wanting to have sex.

(00:16:56): And let's go down the reasons they gave me.

(00:16:58): 29% said I'm not attracted to my partner.

(00:17:02): 18% said my partner has bad hygiene.

(00:17:08): 45% said I'm angry with my partner.

(00:17:09): 51% said my partner doesn't do their fair share around the house.

(00:17:14): And I want to add that

(00:17:16): In most of these cases, it's not like they're trying to punish him.

(00:17:20): It's that it's not sexy to have sex in a filthy house.

(00:17:25): It's not sexy to have sex with someone who is exploiting you.

(00:17:28): It's not sexy to have sex when you are feeling overwhelmed.

(00:17:32): So I think that's what that's really about.

(00:17:33): 27% said the sex with my partner is bad.

(00:17:38): 26% said my partner is mean to me.

(00:17:40): Why would you think that someone would want to have sex with you if you're mean to them?

(00:17:43): I just like what is wrong with men?

(00:17:46): 14% sex is painful for me.

(00:17:49): And I guarantee you in almost all of those cases, it's because of childbirth or sexual assault.

(00:17:54): Yeah.

(00:17:56): 48%, I have too much to do.

(00:17:59): Again, like, why isn't he helping her do it?

(00:18:01): Why isn't he splitting this load with her?

(00:18:02): 33%, I can't relax in a messy house.

(00:18:08): 79%, I'm tired.

(00:18:08): 35%, this is the one that really pisses me off.

(00:18:12): He body shames me.

(00:18:14): Why would you expect to ever again have sex with someone who you have insulted?

(00:18:21): Why would you want to have sex with someone you're insulting unless you're only

(00:18:25): insulting them to try to control them?

(00:18:27): Exactly.

(00:18:27): I mean, most of these men are doing it reflexively or just to hurt and demean their partners.

(00:18:34): Right.

(00:18:34): Because if he still wants sex, he's attracted to you.

(00:18:37): And if he's attracted to you... Right.

(00:18:39): There's no reason for him to be shaming your body.

(00:18:41): Well, there's no reason for him to be body shaming you at all.

(00:18:43): Yeah, of course.

(00:18:44): Of course.

(00:18:45): But this is something men do with women a lot.

(00:18:47): And it's so bizarre because...

(00:18:50): By every definition, women put more effort into being attractive to and for men.

(00:18:55): And they also give up more for men.

(00:18:57): They get pregnant.

(00:18:59): They give birth.

(00:19:00): They go through all of this.

(00:19:02): And then to go through that and then have your partner insult your body is just –

(00:19:07): So outrageous.

(00:19:08): So if you are a man who has insulted your partner's body,

(00:19:11): you need to get down on your knees and beg forgiveness.

(00:19:14): You will be lucky if she ever wants to have sex with you again.

(00:19:17): Because,

(00:19:18): like,

(00:19:18): I can tell you if Jeff did that to me,

(00:19:20): like,

(00:19:20): I would never want to have sex with him again ever.

(00:19:22): One time is enough.

(00:19:24): Yeah, I don't understand why you would say that.

(00:19:26): I think that also men get a free pass on their bodies, obviously.

(00:19:31): Yeah.

(00:19:32): Men take pride in their bellies as if it's a source of power or something.

(00:19:38): I know guys like that.

(00:19:39): I've seen them.

(00:19:39): Yeah.

(00:19:41): And there is no reason to ever make your partner feel bad intentionally.

(00:19:46): Why would you intentionally make your partner feel bad about herself?

(00:19:51): To control her.

(00:19:52): Right.

(00:19:53): So here's the most troubling statistic about why women don't want sex.

(00:19:58): Overall,

(00:19:58): 70% of women say that their partners have coerced them into sex,

(00:20:02): and they say that 52% of sexual interactions with their partners are unwanted.

(00:20:07): What percent did you say that was?

(00:20:10): 52% are unwanted.

(00:20:12): And how many have been coerced?

(00:20:15): 70%.

(00:20:16): That's crazy.

(00:20:17): Yeah.

(00:20:18): I can't imagine what this...

(00:20:21): feels like, how demeaning and awful this is.

(00:20:24): Oh, that's got to be disgusting.

(00:20:26): And then to have the guys be like, oh, I don't know why she doesn't want to have sex with me.

(00:20:30): Dudes, you really don't understand that women are people, do you?

(00:20:33): Just fundamentally, they don't get it.

(00:20:36): Yeah.

(00:20:36): And you don't understand like,

(00:20:38): OK,

(00:20:38): I guess if you're coercing someone into sex,

(00:20:43): it's I guess there's some minority or some percentage of men who feel like that

(00:20:48): gives them power or something.

(00:20:49): Do they get off on that?

(00:20:51): Because there's other ways to like have a power disparity in sex that's consensual.

(00:20:55): You don't have to be coercive.

(00:20:57): Have your partner do.

(00:20:58): If she's into you and she enjoys it, she'll do all kinds of shit that she wouldn't do otherwise.

(00:21:04): I mean,

(00:21:05): if you want to have sex like those porn videos that your weak ass is watching,

(00:21:11): you know,

(00:21:11): because you can't do anything more productive than your time,

(00:21:13): then appeal to your base fucking instincts.

(00:21:16): Yeah.

(00:21:16): You can't even learn how to fuck a woman, so you have to watch videos of other people doing it.

(00:21:20): If you want to do some of that shit, you need to get her into it.

(00:21:26): It's never going to happen otherwise.

(00:21:29): I mean, I don't know what kind of porn videos these guys are watching.

(00:21:31): It's the the risk is that they've gone off the deep end and they're into all kinds

(00:21:35): of crazy,

(00:21:37): crazy things.

(00:21:37): You know, porn is is like a drug.

(00:21:40): You know,

(00:21:41): there was a question that was posed to you about on one of your I think it was

(00:21:47): Feminist Advice Friday columns about how can we still have men watch porn and it be OK?

(00:21:52): Yeah, it's like.

(00:21:54): Replace porn with heroin.

(00:21:56): Well, people really like heroin.

(00:21:57): So how do we have them keep using it?

(00:21:59): We can't say don't use it.

(00:22:00): We have to give them a way to use it.

(00:22:02): It's like porn is not helping anyone with anything.

(00:22:06): And I just want to add a caveat because every time I talk about porn,

(00:22:09): I get a bunch of people who have no familiarity with sex work at all being like,

(00:22:14): oh,

(00:22:14): you're anti-sex worker.

(00:22:15): No, no.

(00:22:17): I absolutely stand in solidarity with sex workers.

(00:22:19): I worked for years in the corporate department of a strip club.

(00:22:22): Like I care about sex workers' rights.

(00:22:25): I want to see sex workers unionize.

(00:22:27): I want to see sex workers getting paid because sex work is work.

(00:22:30): What I don't want to see is men acting as if they have an entitlement to limitless

(00:22:37): sex work and like those women are not people and then taking that and weaponizing

(00:22:41): it against their partners.

(00:22:42): This is not an anti-sex worker thing.

(00:22:44): This is an anti-misogyny thing.

(00:22:47): Yeah.

(00:22:49): For example, there's eating meat and then there's the meat industry.

(00:22:54): Yes.

(00:22:55): Just like there is sex work, there's pornography, and then there's those industries.

(00:23:01): Yeah.

(00:23:02): And the ideals of free expression, sexual freedom, free communication about it, those are great.

(00:23:11): Yeah.

(00:23:11): And no one would ever say they should, neither one of us would ever say they should be illegal.

(00:23:17): But the industry is an abusive nightmare.

(00:23:20): Yeah.

(00:23:20): I mean, we have to be honest about that.

(00:23:22): And somehow we can understand that, like, if I say that retailers are abusive, everybody agrees.

(00:23:28): They don't say I'm opposing retail workers.

(00:23:30): The same is true of the pornography and sex work industry.

(00:23:33): It's the same as anything else.

(00:23:36): You know, we could all agree heroin use is problematic.

(00:23:40): That doesn't mean all drugs are bad.

(00:23:42): So we can say the internet porn industry is putting out content that is harmful to everyone.

(00:23:56): without having actually stated a position on the theoretical benefit that

(00:24:03): pornography could have in a healthy society.

(00:24:05): And there's such significant crossover in the women I talk to where

(00:24:12): Virtually everyone in an abusive marriage has a partner who is watching a significant amount of porn.

(00:24:17): Do I think the porn made him abusive?

(00:24:19): No.

(00:24:20): But I think that men who tend toward being abusive are also attracted to

(00:24:24): opportunities to own and dominate women.

(00:24:27): And pornography gives them that opportunity.

(00:24:29): It is an outlet for those kinds of men.

(00:24:31): And as such, it's a red flag.

(00:24:33): Yeah, absolutely.

(00:24:35): It's also just a red flag for being an idiot.

(00:24:37): Like, we don't have much time in this world.

(00:24:40): Yeah.

(00:24:41): Watching porn doesn't make you good at anything.

(00:24:43): It doesn't teach you anything.

(00:24:44): It doesn't help you be better at anything.

(00:24:47): You could be learning, practicing, training, hanging out with your kids, being a better parent.

(00:24:52): And you're just watching this shit that is not going to do anything other than make you feel bad.

(00:24:58): Ultimately, because that's what it does, because it harms your relationship with other people.

(00:25:02): Well, with other women.

(00:25:03): And it teaches you unrealistic things.

(00:25:06): I mean, look, these women aren't happy.

(00:25:08): So anyone who's watching porn, I bet a lot of these guys are.

(00:25:12): It's not helping you be better at sex.

(00:25:15): Yeah.

(00:25:16): All right, so what do women say would make them want more sex?

(00:25:21): It's really not surprising given what we've just talked about.

(00:25:24): Here's what they told me.

(00:25:26): 10% said nothing.

(00:25:26): 61% said increase romance.

(00:25:30): 26% said work harder to be attractive.

(00:25:33): 20% said take a shower or improve your hygiene.

(00:25:36): 62% said do more around the house or with the children.

(00:25:40): 50% said be nicer.

(00:25:44): 36% said help the woman orgasm more frequently.

(00:25:47): 35% said listen to the woman's sexual needs.

(00:25:50): I mean, the fact that we have to tell men this is just...

(00:25:54): Yeah, but what's interesting is the highest percents are do more around the house and increase romance.

(00:26:00): Let's talk about increasing romance because I think a lot of men will read that as

(00:26:04): I should bring a flower home from work and maybe I'll make dinner on Friday and

(00:26:09): then I get it.

(00:26:11): Yeah,

(00:26:11): this is the vending machine theory of sexuality of you put a few nice coins in and

(00:26:17): the sex comes out.

(00:26:18): But it doesn't work like that.

(00:26:20): What these women are talking about is making the relationship feel more romantic,

(00:26:25): more enticing,

(00:26:26): and more exciting.

(00:26:27): Because fundamentally, sex is supposed to be exciting.

(00:26:31): It's supposed to be something that gets your dopamine pumping.

(00:26:34): And so you have to make the relationship feel,

(00:26:36): one,

(00:26:37): safe by not creating a trash,

(00:26:39): disgusting house where you abuse her.

(00:26:41): And two, fun and exciting.

(00:26:43): So that means, like...

(00:26:46): You're nice on vacation.

(00:26:48): You're nice when you come home.

(00:26:50): You make a meal without expectations.

(00:26:52): Every time you do something nice and you have an expectation that you're going to

(00:26:56): get something in return,

(00:26:57): that actually decreases the effectiveness of that nice action.

(00:27:02): Yeah,

(00:27:05): and when you build like expectation,

(00:27:09): like you don't just be flirtatious for a couple hours and then be like,

(00:27:13): now I get sex.

(00:27:14): Yeah.

(00:27:15): The whole excitement of sex is when you don't know what's going to happen.

(00:27:18): Yeah.

(00:27:18): And you don't know if you're going to get it.

(00:27:21): Like think of when you were dating.

(00:27:22): Yeah, that's fun.

(00:27:23): Oh, am I going to get to have sex?

(00:27:25): Are we going to have sex or not?

(00:27:26): I don't know.

(00:27:27): Like this is fun.

(00:27:30): You have to recreate that dynamic.

(00:27:32): And so the increased romance has to be over a period.

(00:27:37): But also,

(00:27:39): I would suspect that the increased romance would happen if you do these other two,

(00:27:46): do more around the house or with the kids and be nicer.

(00:27:49): Yeah.

(00:27:50): Well, and just like fundamentally...

(00:27:53): I do nice things for Jeff and try to make his life better and his life less

(00:27:58): stressful because I love him.

(00:28:01): And that's what you should want to do for someone you love,

(00:28:04): regardless of whether it gets you something in return,

(00:28:06): because the person you've built your life with is a person who has feelings just

(00:28:11): like you and needs just like you.

(00:28:13): It is.

(00:28:14): But I think for a lot of these guys...

(00:28:20): If sex is the thing that has to be tangled in front of them to be better.

(00:28:26): True.

(00:28:26): Yeah.

(00:28:27): So be it.

(00:28:28): If sex is really...

(00:28:29): So there's this terrible Reddit called Dead Bedrooms where they give men advice on

(00:28:35): how to get their partners to have sex.

(00:28:36): Oh, I need to read that.

(00:28:37): And it's awful.

(00:28:38): But the main advice is to tell women that sex is a biological need, which it's just not.

(00:28:44): But if sex is a biological need, if you need sex to survive...

(00:28:49): then you should be willing to do anything to get it for as long as possible.

(00:28:53): So just like do this simple basic shit.

(00:28:55): It's not hard.

(00:28:57): So what are men's main strategies for getting sex from their partners?

(00:29:01): We don't have to ask because I asked women and here's some of what they told me.

(00:29:05): My partner took photos of me while I was getting dressed and said he would only

(00:29:09): delete them if I had sex with him.

(00:29:12): I just know his mood will be bad for days afterwards, so it's just easier to do it.

(00:29:16): He says if we're not having sex,

(00:29:18): there's a problem,

(00:29:19): so I keep doing it so he won't break up with me and leave me homeless.

(00:29:23): He reduces his selfish asshole meter from 96.7% to 93.2% in the hopes that the

(00:29:30): negligible amount of temporary improvement arouses me.

(00:29:34): My partner gives me the silent treatment if I say no.

(00:29:37): He calls me a rejecter and then complains about blue balls.

(00:29:42): And then I had a number of women whose husbands all recited the same line about how

(00:29:47): they were going to get testicular cancer if they didn't have sex.

(00:29:50): So there's some source that's telling men to do that.

(00:29:55): They cannot masturbate.

(00:29:57): Do they not know how to do that?

(00:29:58): I mean, they don't seem to know how to do anything else.

(00:30:00): Maybe that's the problem.

(00:30:03): All right.

(00:30:03): So then I asked women about sexually abusive behaviors they had experienced from their current partners.

(00:30:09): And here's what they told me.

(00:30:10): 19% had partners who ignored it when they said no to sex.

(00:30:17): 15% had partners who had forced them into sex.

(00:30:20): The other word for that is rape, partners who had raped them.

(00:30:24): 10% had partners who demanded sex immediately after the woman had given birth

(00:30:28): before a medical provider says sex is safe.

(00:30:31): This can cause lifelong injuries.

(00:30:35): 40% had partners who continued to have sex with them even though they are clearly

(00:30:39): not enjoying it and don't want it.

(00:30:41): I mean,

(00:30:41): to me,

(00:30:42): this is a hair away from rape and we might as well call it that because it has the

(00:30:46): same effect on a person's well-being.

(00:30:48): 26% said their partners coerced them into additional sex acts they didn't want.

(00:30:54): So, for example, they were having vaginal sex and the partner insisted they have anal sex.

(00:30:59): This is also rape.

(00:31:01): Nine percent pressured had partners who pressured them into physically painful sex.

(00:31:06): Again, potential lifelong injuries.

(00:31:10): Fifty five percent had partners who told them that they need sex while ignoring the woman's stated needs.

(00:31:16): What is this?

(00:31:17): Is this really about just them getting off or is this about some power play?

(00:31:21): I think it's some of both because a lot of these men will do things like walk up to

(00:31:27): the woman and like hump her in front of an audience and like laugh because they

(00:31:30): think that's funny.

(00:31:31): I think a lot of this is like an ownership thing.

(00:31:34): A woman is an appliance that you own.

(00:31:38): So I also, I surveyed both men and women.

(00:31:41): So I looked at the differences between men's and women's sexual experiences.

(00:31:44): And I think that this is really educational.

(00:31:48): 98% or men reported orgasming during sex 98% of the time.

(00:31:57): Well, yeah.

(00:31:57): Isn't that the definition of sex?

(00:31:59): That's what men think it is.

(00:32:01): For women, the figure is 47%.

(00:32:06): 0% of men regret getting into their current relationship.

(00:32:10): 36% of women do.

(00:32:12): And spoiler alert,

(00:32:13): in the data set that I'm about to release that pulled a much larger sample,

(00:32:19): the figure for women is more like 70%.

(00:32:24): 0% of men say their partners had coerced them into sex.

(00:32:28): 42% of women say their partners had.

(00:32:29): 0% of men say their partners have forced them into sex.

(00:32:34): 15% of women say they have.

(00:32:36): And 0% of men reported being physically abused by their partners compared to 12% of women.

(00:32:45): Yeah, the 40% of time people report are orgasming, 47% half the time for women.

(00:32:53): And like that's just an average.

(00:32:54): So it's probably really more like a significant number of women have 0%,

(00:32:59): a significant number have like rarely,

(00:33:01): and then a percent or close to 100% like men.

(00:33:03): Could be, yeah.

(00:33:04): I think that's probably what it actually looks like.

(00:33:07): And that's...

(00:33:08): If I remember the data correctly, that's kind of how it scattered in the data.

(00:33:11): It was like a small percent said they orgasmed 70% or more of the time.

(00:33:15): And then most, it was like 25% or less.

(00:33:18): And yeah.

(00:33:19): How much do you think that matters?

(00:33:21): Like how much do you think the quality of sex matters in these surveys to these women?

(00:33:26): Do you think it's a quality issue or is it a relationship issue?

(00:33:30): I think that a lot of women will say the quality doesn't matter because the

(00:33:34): relationship is so bad that fixing that is their priority.

(00:33:39): But, you know, there's this idea that like, well, women don't really need orgasms.

(00:33:42): Women only have sex to feel connected.

(00:33:44): And I think that's a

(00:33:46): fairy tale we tell ourselves to excuse men's sexual inadequacy.

(00:33:50): Sure, some women don't need to orgasm all the time.

(00:33:54): Some women don't need the sex to be pleasurable to want to have it.

(00:33:58): But women are not different from men in meaningful ways here.

(00:34:03): They like sex and they want to have good sex.

(00:34:06): Yeah, I think really what it is, it's easy for men to have orgasms.

(00:34:10): And when their orgasm happens, sex, that's usually seen as the end of it.

(00:34:14): Well, and women have such shame about taking, quote, too long to orgasm.

(00:34:18): Right.

(00:34:19): And so I think a lot of women just give up and they say, oh, I don't really care about orgasms.

(00:34:24): as a way to avoid feeling the shame that they experience when they expect their partners to keep going.

(00:34:31): So if we removed that shame,

(00:34:32): I think the number of women who say they need to have orgasms would be close to 100%.

(00:34:36): Yeah, I think that's right.

(00:34:40): And I think men, like she can tell when you're getting impatient.

(00:34:48): Yeah, I mean, men are not very good at concealing their emotions.

(00:34:51): I was in an appointment with my daughter a couple of days ago, and I was sitting in the waiting room.

(00:34:58): And there was this guy sitting across the way from me doing something on his phone.

(00:35:05): And like every couple of seconds, he was just sighing audibly and dramatically.

(00:35:09): And he was getting more and more animated about this.

(00:35:13): And like I see this behavior with men in public all the time of just making a big

(00:35:16): show of how unhappy they are.

(00:35:18): Are you sure he wasn't playing chess and just like hanging his pieces and just

(00:35:22): being like...

(00:35:23): He might have been playing against you.

(00:35:25): I've lost 200 Elo.

(00:35:26): You know, in this last two days, I'm awful at this.

(00:35:30): That could have been one.

(00:35:31): Joe has a habit of waiting to play chess until he is incredibly exhausted and can't stop himself.

(00:35:37): And so in a single night, he'll lose like, what, 300 points on his chess score?

(00:35:41): No, it's fine.

(00:35:41): I'm not good at it anyway.

(00:35:42): It doesn't matter.

(00:35:43): I just had to insert that joke.

(00:35:46): So, you know, so other things I'm good at.

(00:35:48): It's not one of them.

(00:35:52): So there's this dynamic between men and women that feels individual and personal, but it's not.

(00:35:58): This is a politicized system that harms women and keeps them focused on pleasing men.

(00:36:04): And so it should come as no surprise that society then trivializes women's needs

(00:36:09): and women's sexual experiences.

(00:36:11): We hear this when we hear things like women don't need to orgasm.

(00:36:15): They have sex to connect.

(00:36:17): Or, well, make her dinner and then she'll have sex with you.

(00:36:21): Or, you know, women are just different sexually from men and they're not as into sex as men.

(00:36:26): All this kind of stuff.

(00:36:27): What's this love language bullshit?

(00:36:29): OK,

(00:36:29): so Love Language is this book written by this Christian preacher who invented the

(00:36:35): idea that people have love language.

(00:36:38): So like touch, acts of service, words of affirmation.

(00:36:42): And, you know, it's reasonable to talk to your partner about how they give an experience love.

(00:36:46): Like that's a meaningful insight.

(00:36:48): Sure.

(00:36:49): But this love languages thing has been like really weaponized because what's ended

(00:36:53): up happening is men always say their love language is touch.

(00:36:57): And what they really mean is fucking.

(00:37:00): And women will always say that their love language is act of service.

(00:37:03): And what they really mean is doing household labor.

(00:37:06): And so then men will say, oh, well, I can't feel loved by you if you don't have sex with me.

(00:37:12): And then they go to therapy and the therapist is like,

(00:37:15): well,

(00:37:15): you can't expect him to meet any of your needs until you meet his needs.

(00:37:19): His love language is touch.

(00:37:21): So, you know, you're just an object who has to have sex with him.

(00:37:26): So the love languages thing has been like really, really weaponized.

(00:37:30): And, you know, this makes sense when you think about the fact that like

(00:37:35): Patriarchy exists for a reason.

(00:37:38): It is a system that exists to benefit men, not to hurt women.

(00:37:41): Hurting women is incidental.

(00:37:43): So women are tools for men's pleasure, for men's growth, for men's finances.

(00:37:48): So patriarchy doesn't care about hurting women.

(00:37:51): So if we can hurt women to help men, patriarchy will do that.

(00:37:55): And for that to work, society must diminish and dismiss women's experiences and emotions.

(00:38:00): We must treat them as trivial and unimportant.

(00:38:04): And I think that this insight is part of why people see me as so radical and extreme,

(00:38:08): because I say shocking things like women's time is important.

(00:38:13): And if you are stealing a woman's time, you are stealing her life.

(00:38:16): I treat women's experiences as important.

(00:38:19): And in the sex context,

(00:38:21): I don't think that women should be treated as blow up dolls and sex toys because

(00:38:24): they're actual living human beings.

(00:38:27): Yeah.

(00:38:27): So at the beginning, we were talking about.

(00:38:30): quality of sex or I was talking about quality of sex and kind of making fun of some

(00:38:34): guys about not being able to do it right but the truth is for me this has always

(00:38:39): been true I think it's true for for most people I've talked to about it if the

(00:38:45): relationship is not healthy then the sex is not going to be there yeah having a

(00:38:52): good relationship is a precondition to it and so

(00:38:57): I think a lot of this,

(00:38:59): especially when you look at the high numbers on these surveys,

(00:39:02): it's not about sex.

(00:39:04): It's about everything else you've been talking about.

(00:39:07): Stealing time,

(00:39:08): stealing labor,

(00:39:10): being abusive,

(00:39:11): being mean,

(00:39:13): not helping with the kids,

(00:39:14): not helping in the house.

(00:39:16): And if you fix all that stuff...

(00:39:21): Yeah, you know, then you can start working on the sex.

(00:39:23): But I don't think you're going to be able to become skillful at sex and lure her

(00:39:29): back in unless everything else changes along with it.

(00:39:32): Yeah.

(00:39:32): Unless she is asexual or she has a serious medical condition.

(00:39:37): Being a woman and having hormones is not a serious medical condition, by the way.

(00:39:42): Her not wanting to have sex signals something else that's going wrong.

(00:39:46): And there's almost always something that he can do to improve it.

(00:39:51): Yeah, there's a lot of trust issues too.

(00:39:52): Like if the man has done something like outside the scope of consent once or in the past,

(00:40:01): that's always going to be in the back of her mind.

(00:40:03): And she's not going to be able to relax if she's worried that you're going to do something.

(00:40:10): Men have to recognize the seriousness of their own behavior.

(00:40:13): Men often try to escape accountability by like not apologizing or by denying that something happened.

(00:40:20): But all that does is that increases the hurt.

(00:40:22): Like the only chance you have to fix the harm you've done in the past is to really

(00:40:26): take full and ongoing accountability for it.

(00:40:29): It's a shame because I think the only way most men would never be able to

(00:40:35): empathize with a woman this way because it would require them to put themselves in

(00:40:40): her position and that would make them gay according to the prevailing yeah i mean

(00:40:49): if wiping your butt is gay empathy definitely is yeah yeah i guess they would say

(00:40:55): that too but i i mean maybe you have to imagine yourself in prison

(00:41:03): And some dude, you know, is this going to work for men?

(00:41:09): No.

(00:41:09): How do you... Because they don't have to deal with this.

(00:41:13): Men do sex to women, right?

(00:41:15): Yeah.

(00:41:15): They don't have it done to them.

(00:41:16): Right.

(00:41:17): And so until they understand that dynamic and they feel that sort of...

(00:41:24): But I think that thinking about how it would feel if a man did it to you is helpful,

(00:41:28): right?

(00:41:29): Yeah,

(00:41:29): but they aren't going to be able to do that because they're going to be so caught

(00:41:32): up in their homophobia that they aren't going to be able to use that as a way of like...

(00:41:35): If you can't even think about it because it's so unfathomable to you,

(00:41:40): that's how she feels about it too.

(00:41:42): No, that's true.

(00:41:43): That is true.

(00:41:44): Like, imagine how it would feel if, you know, I'm assuming you're this straight guy.

(00:41:49): Well, like I...

(00:41:51): I've had situations where like I was at a bar waiting for a date and I was sitting there alone.

(00:41:57): And I don't know if that was a signal or something.

(00:42:00): But some guy came up to me and was like getting like close to me,

(00:42:04): asking me if I could help him read his bill,

(00:42:06): put his hand on my leg.

(00:42:07): I'm like, get your fucking hand off my leg.

(00:42:09): Like I stand up.

(00:42:10): I'm like, what's up?

(00:42:10): What do you do?

(00:42:11): Yeah.

(00:42:12): And like that's.

(00:42:13): That's the kind of shit that women deal with all the time.

(00:42:15): And like, I got a little bit of it and I was like ready to go.

(00:42:19): I'm like, you need to get the fuck off me, you know?

(00:42:22): So I couldn't cope with it.

(00:42:25): I couldn't cope with it, which is like the kind of shit that women have to deal with all the time.

(00:42:29): And so if you can't imagine yourself in a situation like this and your mind starts

(00:42:34): freaking out because you can't handle it,

(00:42:36): that's an indication that you have no idea what it is like and what she deals with.

(00:42:42): So we have a story from my dad about this because my dad has really been ranting

(00:42:45): and raving about this lately,

(00:42:47): about how we demand emotional labor from girls and women that we never demand from men.

(00:42:52): And so I know he won't care about me sharing this story because he keeps telling me

(00:42:57): that I need to write about it,

(00:42:58): apparently unaware that I'm constantly writing about it.

(00:43:01): So he was like teaching – he's a lawyer and he was teaching a class on –

(00:43:07): like appropriate business interactions with people.

(00:43:11): And one of the people he was teaching was like, I'm just a touchy feely person.

(00:43:16): Like I just like to hug people.

(00:43:17): I got to help them.

(00:43:18): I got to show them affection.

(00:43:19): And my dad was like, well, are you doing that with men or just with women?

(00:43:24): And the guy immediately got like really aggressive because of course he's not doing it with men.

(00:43:30): And then he like,

(00:43:31): He started doing this other thing where every time he saw this guy who's a touchy

(00:43:35): feely person,

(00:43:35): he would force him to give him a hug.

(00:43:37): I love it.

(00:43:38): And say, I'm just a touchy feely person.

(00:43:40): So, yeah, dudes, just like think about how it feels when it comes from a man.

(00:43:45): And that is how your wife feels with you.

(00:43:47): And like, is that what you want for her reaction to be recoiling at your touch?

(00:43:52): That's horrific.

(00:43:53): Yeah.

(00:43:54): And when you do have an opportunity to have sex with your wife,

(00:43:59): and it's not like one of those,

(00:44:00): I'm whining,

(00:44:03): and she's just going to do it just so I can get it done,

(00:44:06): just because that's her easiest way through this evening.

(00:44:09): You need to set aside some time to do it right.

(00:44:11): Do it slowly.

(00:44:13): Slow is always better.

(00:44:15): It's always better.

(00:44:17): Because it always builds up to something that you couldn't get to if you had done it quickly.

(00:44:20): A slow build.

(00:44:22): And if you find yourself doing something that is starting to feel boring, don't keep doing it.

(00:44:31): Don't be bored and do it.

(00:44:32): She'll pick up on that.

(00:44:34): Got to back off and do something else.

(00:44:35): Yeah.

(00:44:36): You're there to entertain yourself.

(00:44:37): You could be.

(00:44:38): Yeah, entertain yourself and her.

(00:44:40): It's a skill.

(00:44:41): Develop and cultivate this skill.

(00:44:44): If you want to stay married forever, you're going to have to get good at this.

(00:44:47): So you might as well do it.

(00:44:50): Figure out what she's into.

(00:44:51): Figure out the things that she hasn't told you that she's into.

(00:44:55): Tell her what you're into.

(00:44:56): Take one of those sex quizzes that are online.

(00:44:59): If you're too nervous to talk to your wife about sex, take a sex quiz.

(00:45:04): I mean... There are some great quizzes online.

(00:45:06): Maybe you'll find out you're both furries.

(00:45:08): I mean...

(00:45:09): But no,

(00:45:09): there are some really cool quizzes online where you can check everything that

(00:45:14): you're into and your partner can check everything they're into.

(00:45:18): And it will only tell you what your partner checked if you checked it too.

(00:45:22): So it's only if you're a match that you find out about the kinks and interests.

(00:45:26): And I think that's great.

(00:45:27): I think that you should take those together.

(00:45:29): It gives you something to talk about.

(00:45:31): So that's about all we have for this one.

(00:45:34): This is the part where I ask you to please leave a review on Spotify or anywhere

(00:45:39): else where you're listening to this podcast because the reviews make the magic

(00:45:43): algorithm make this more visible.

(00:45:46): Please share widely,

(00:45:48): especially sharing on social media is really helpful right now because social media

(00:45:52): does everything it can to make links not visible.

(00:45:55): Comments and shares also boost visibility.

(00:45:59): And if you really like the podcast and you are not a current Substack subscriber,

(00:46:03): you will get at least one extra episode a month by subscribing at zahn.substack.com.

(00:46:09): And we will talk.

(00:46:10): And feedback is valuable too though.

(00:46:12): Yes, yes.

(00:46:12): Because like if you guys, if you're like, get this man out of here, she'll kick me out.

(00:46:18): You know,

(00:46:19): if,

(00:46:20): or if there's some topic that we should cover,

(00:46:23): we're going to try to,

(00:46:24): I think,

(00:46:24): cover more topics that are a little bit,

(00:46:29): more outside the immediate scope.

(00:46:31): Yeah, and we'll be talking later about

(00:46:35): relationships where it's the woman who wants sex and the man who does not or you

(00:46:40): know where there's other kinds of sexual problems this is just the most common

(00:46:43): dynamic so share your experiences with us tell us about what you're seeing because

(00:46:50): we of course like everyone don't see everything but if you share your own

(00:46:54): experiences with us then we can talk about them in the context of patriarchy and

(00:46:58): other systems of oppression