PB-E20 DISCUSS 070924 ===

Sarah Wayne Callies: [00:00:00] Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. So much happened in that episode.

Paul Adelstein: Oh my goodness. That was, uh. Yeah, it's getting real intense. Can we just watch them all in a row? Can we just watch? I don't want to wait.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I, I mean, honestly, I just want to like, let's go.

Paul Adelstein: Take a breath. Calm down. You okay?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I am fine.

Paul Adelstein: Okay. While Sarah takes a deep cleansing breath, we would like to welcome you to episode 20 of Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul.

Paul Adelstein: I'm Paul. Sarah is freaking out.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Wow, how are there two whole episodes left?

Paul Adelstein: I mean, I feel like, it feels like the next episode should be the season finale, but it also felt like this should be the season finale, given last week's episode. I think that's kind of the master, [00:01:00] how masterful they are.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes, but also, and I promise I will stop freaking out in a second, you were not in this episode.

Paul Adelstein: I didn't, didn't, I know, I wasn't, but hey, what do you know. I'm pulling the strings behind, behind the scenes, probably from my, um, uh, room in my brother's, my brother's, um, rec room in his

Sarah Wayne Callies: basement. Yeah. But I want to talk to your agents. It's not okay. I'm mad about it. I'm like, you're my friend. Where's my friend?

Paul Adelstein: Okay, this one really got to you, huh?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, man. This actually brought me back to some like very visceral Filming like gut moments. It was it was a lot.

Paul Adelstein: Okay, you just keep keep doing your breathing. Keep doing your yoga I'm going to Kallistein.

Sarah Wayne Callies: What's my new favorite verb?

Paul Adelstein: So the Kallistein index for episode 20 This episode is called tonight Feel free to sing West Side Story to yourselves for a moment.

Paul Adelstein: We won't so we don't get sued. It aired on May 1st, 2006. It was written by Zach Estrin and directed by Bobby Roth. 8. 54 million people tuned in to watch that Monday night at 8 p. m. Competition [00:02:00] in the time slot, you know it by now, say it with me, was Deal or No Deal on NBC, King of Queens on CBS, and Wife Swap on ABC.

Paul Adelstein: Worth mentioning. By the way, can

Sarah Wayne Callies: we, can we mush that into one show? Is it like the Wife Swap, Deal of Queens? Deal or No

Paul Adelstein: Deal, King of Queens on an Island. Yes, totally. Sorry. Uh, it was, it's worth mentioning. It's nice to not have anything competitive counter programmed here. I mean, if you wanted a show like Prison Break, you're watching Prison Break.

Paul Adelstein: Not King of Queens, although entirely crossover episode we did with King of Queens is incredible.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Totally. Yeah, especially because it was musical. All right. Um, I am now Sufficiently calmed down to recap the episode. It is a doozy Westmoreland It's critically wounded when he attacks Belloq and locks him under the room.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Go Westmoreland. Michael plans the escape for that night. Everyone will need to cover their scent to avoid the search dogs. That gets gross. Michael decides to include Tweener, [00:03:00] knowing of his betrayal, but we're not sure he knows of the betrayal, but the recap people thought they did. And then Michael finishes the Taj Mahal model for the Pope.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Michael reveals his escape plan to Sarah, begging her to leave the door unlocked. A Brutzi informs Nick Saverin to bring Veronica to him, and Saverin pulls a gun on her. Then, the model of the Taj collapses as Pope tries to move it, and he calls Michael into the room where Michael pulls a shank on him.

Paul Adelstein: I'm exhausted. In pop culture news at the time, on May 5th, the Red Hot Chili Peppers released their ninth studio album, Stadium Arcadium. The album would go quadruple platinum, selling over 4 million records. Also on May 5th, Disney acquired Pixar for 7. 4 billion. Leading to the creation of some of the most successful animated films of all time, and a few days earlier, on April 28th, the 33rd Daytime Emmy Awards were held in Los Angeles.

Paul Adelstein: Jeopardy! [00:04:00] won for Outstanding Game Show, the Oprah Winfrey Show for Outstanding Talk Show, and a Lifetime Achievement Award was presented to Carol Spinney, the puppeteer who had portrayed both Big Bird and Oscar the Grouch on Sesame Street since 1969.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That is a true lifetime achievement. Um, in global events, April 26th marked the 20th anniversary of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster, with a ceremony commemorating that somber event.

Sarah Wayne Callies: On May 5th, the Darfur Peace Agreement was signed, establishing a ceasefire in the region, although the promises of wealth and power sharing were largely unfulfilled and stability and violence returned to the region not very long afterwards.

Paul Adelstein: And speaking of violence and instability, here's the highlight reel from our watch party, which you can listen to at any time by subscribing on Patreon, on the show page wherever you are listening right now.

Paul Adelstein: Here it is.

Sarah Wayne Callies: By the way, shovel to the face, always. Yeah, it's

Paul Adelstein: over.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, but like, shovel to the face, always great. Works [00:05:00] for me every time. You're gonna roll in brussel sprouts to throw off the dogs. By the way, I just sounded like an owl there, and I just want to own that. Sorry. Also, thanks for the shank. See you back.

Paul Adelstein: Wait, did they just pardon him? We were talking about the movie. We were talking about fake booze.

Sarah Wayne Callies: This is like the worst version of Napoleon Dynamite. There's very much a like psycho thing going on. And are you possibly dead and stuffed?

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's interesting that nobody thought to do that. I'm so stressed.

Paul Adelstein: I need to lay down.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'm going to need another minute to calm down.

Paul Adelstein: Another

Sarah Wayne Callies: week.

Paul Adelstein: And we all worked up again. Alright.

Paul Adelstein: Okay. We're back. Sarah? Sarah?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yep. Yep.

Paul Adelstein: Sarah? Yeah? You okay? You good? I'm totally calm. Okay. Can we, can we, can we talk about the episode? Yeah. [00:06:00]

Sarah Wayne Callies: Would you like to talk about the episode in a calm way?

Paul Adelstein: In a calming voice?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Let's talk calming.

Paul Adelstein: Do you need some, uh, aromatherapy?

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, no, no, I'm just gonna go listen to like a meditating British dude on an app and just.

Paul Adelstein: Um, you said, okay, I'm gonna hit my notes. You said that you had, uh, there's a scene with. Your father, uh, is the governor and you said you had a note in your script on that scene.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. So it was interesting. I was looking through, you know, my little jotting to myself and, uh, I decided that until that scene, I was likely, Sarah was likely not to leave the door open.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And that this was about like, you know, taking this time and the struggle was about how do I wrap my head around the fact that my inaction is going to lead a man to die. But that after that interaction, uh, dad, the struggle [00:07:00] becomes, how do I become someone who's going to break the law, which is just, you know, it's sort of, it's maybe irrelevant inside

Paul Adelstein: baseball, but.

Paul Adelstein: I don't think it's irrelevant at all because I mean, it, it doesn't seem like that secret a secret, but like that seems on its face to be what's going on. Right. Right. I mean. That you go there looking, you, the binary you ask him, you say, did you look at it? Did you make a determine, actual determine, did you make an actual determination on this, or?

Paul Adelstein: Is it just pure politics with a person's life? And he, he won't answer you and then he says, grow up. No, I didn't. And so then it, it's like he doesn't absolve you of the decision making process. He didn't make a, he made a decision of inaction.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right. And I mean.

Paul Adelstein: I mean, if he said to you, I looked at it, this guy's clearly guilty.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes. Yeah. All right. We

Paul Adelstein: disagree on this. [00:08:00] But he's saying, I don't, I don't need to look at this. Look at the guy's rap sheet.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Or even saying, I don't even, I don't care about any of this. I'm going to be nominated because I think the thing that we were trying to figure this out as we were listening to it because we were talking over it, but I believe the thing that Sarah heard in the bar that stopped her in her tracks was, he's likely going to be Vice President Reynolds running mate when she runs for president.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right. Um, and so it gives some credence, I think what it is, is it gives some credence to Michael's running mate. And all of a sudden there's a like, Oh.

Paul Adelstein: conspiracy theory, there's a political expedience to it that's disgusting. That it's like, I'm currying favor with these people. Even if it's not a conspiracy, which it is a conspiracy.

Paul Adelstein: But even if it wasn't, it was, I'm currying favor with It's at least

Sarah Wayne Callies: a quid pro quo.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, yeah. And then, um, there's also an interesting thematic thing, [00:09:00] which is, you know, for Sarah, for somebody who, Uh, is, you know, has had a rough go, has course corrected, has decided she wants to help people with her medical degree, and as part of her recovery, she's working at this prison.

Paul Adelstein: And he says to her, working at that place has changed you, why don't you go someplace where you can help these people before By the time they're at Fox River, he says, they're, they're too far gone.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right.

Paul Adelstein: There's no rehabilitation. And your experience has kind of taught you differently, both about a lot of the people you've treated, but also in terms of Michael, where as much as you feel manipulated, part of you wants to trust this person and think this person is doing something good.

Paul Adelstein: So for him to say about Lincoln, it's too late. He's a criminal. He deserves to die anyway. All those people are. Uh, [00:10:00] not worth it. Pope says to Michael, you're a good guy, you're the only good guy here, basically. Michael says, actually, there's some other good guys here. Right. I mean, it speaks to the kind of complexity of the redemption storylines that are going on with some of these characters.

Paul Adelstein: I mean, C Note wants to get out to be with his family, Westmoreland wants to get out to see his daughter one last time. There is a kind of sense of some people trying to turn it around. And here are Yeah. Here is The governor saying your father saying you're wasting your time and Sarah's obviously gonna make the decision.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well,

Paul Adelstein: not just out of like love, but to actually try to do something good.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, and I think maybe out of a sense, I mean, in some ways, I think what her father says backfires, which is maybe part of the decision is there, but for the grace of God go I right? Like he implies that she could have been sent to prison.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I mean, you know, she committed crimes, right? Like you can't steal [00:11:00] from a hospital. Um, there might even be a violation of a good Samaritan law if you're a physician that you do nothing when someone's hit by a car. But the implication that, this is never drawn directly, but I think the implication that lands at least in her head is if these guys are too far gone to bother saving because they've already committed enough crimes, then that's how you feel about me.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Then you've, you've already written me off too. And another component of it that I think is interesting, I'm sorry, I'll stop rambling in a minute. But thank you. A friend of mine in the program who's been sober for, you know, a couple decades has actually said that one of the things that they say is. a key component of long term durable sobriety is service, is be useful to others.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And so again, I think it's that failure for father to understand what I'm doing at Fox River is helping me stay sober. It's [00:12:00] meaningful work that is giving me a purpose. Um, and it's just this massive disconnect. And, uh, and then we went and we shot the coldest scene of my life.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. So tell me about that

Sarah Wayne Callies: on, on Lake Michigan.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I mean, it's, I think it's a little bit about the scene you shot with Utanus, like, we were out there, and Bobby Roth, we were like, you know, it was a little B unit, we'd like driven out with a camera, and I think it was around sunset, and Bobby Roth and I are in this van. And he was like, I don't know if I can get out of the van.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I was like, I'm with you, but I think I have to. I actually think, if I remember right, I'm not sure that scarf was wardrobe. I think it was like, I went out and I was like, oh you guys, um, exposed flesh is gonna be really dangerous right now from like a medical perspective. I think someone in the van was like, here, take my scarf.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I wrapped it around me. It was, I mean, I was, I think they took it out. I couldn't stop weeping. Yeah,

Paul Adelstein: yeah. Because,

Sarah Wayne Callies: you know, when your eyes go like that, [00:13:00] and Bobby at one point was like, I don't think you should be crying in the scene. I was like, I'm trying not to, it's just my existential pain at the cold.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, that's all.

Paul Adelstein: It's a beautiful shot. I know exactly where it is, it's just south of, it's just south of the loop, um, looking back at the city. It's, I don't know if, if, if you've seen, uh, a movie called I'm Trying to Break Your Heart, which is about the making of Wilco's album, Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, um, there's a whole thing of them walking there, like in black and white.

Paul Adelstein: Beautiful shot. Um, there's a whole, there's so many iconic people. Shots of Chicago from there, it must be, I think it's cool for you to join the ranks of those shots. of them? Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's by like walking across the uh, the crosswalk at Abbey Road?

Paul Adelstein: We can, exactly.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, I mean that stuff just seeps into your bones in a way that's very hard to get out.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'd rather

Paul Adelstein: die in the heat than in the cold.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh yeah, anytime. Any time. You

Paul Adelstein: do?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh yeah, you give me. The first season of Walking Dead, we had 40 [00:14:00] consecutive days over 90 degrees with 98 percent humidity. I'll

Paul Adelstein: take it though. I'll take it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I can do that. I don't love it, but I can do it. Because when I get certain kinds of cold.

Paul Adelstein: I

Sarah Wayne Callies: can't. I

Paul Adelstein: can't think. Yeah, same. No. And it makes me scared and angry in a weird way. Mm hmm. Yeah. You also made a note that you came back for the, you were called back to do the car scene. Oh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Wrong scene. Uh, that was, that's coming. Okay. That's coming. But I do remember shooting some of these scenes. Like, the scene in the infirmary where Michael tells her, uh, where he comes clean.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I mean, it's, in some ways, it's a very breathtaking move on his part, having been all about subterfuge and planning and lies and, you know, sort of misdirects to just be like, I'm breaking out of jail and I'm taking my brother and I need your help and you have to leave the door open. leaves, but I just remember my stomach being [00:15:00] tied up in knots as we were doing that scene with just the like, just the kind of heartbreak of it all, the like, definition of a tragedy.

Paul Adelstein: What's cool about that scene is that there, I mean, he has this thrift store Hail Mary, but the Hail Mary is predicated on the stuff, it started as bullshit, but there is actually something between us. And so it goes towards her. Ability to then, after being deceived, to trust him. I mean, there's a, when we did Impostors, there was this whole idea of when you con somebody, especially with love, you actually have to fall in love with them a little bit.

Paul Adelstein: For real. And maybe that gets out of control. And that kind of did for Michael. I mean, I don't think flirting, well, maybe flirting was part of his plan originally. But also the thing he needs from you has changed [00:16:00] multiple times, though. Yes. Which is what's, which is really what makes the writing, I think, so fun here.

Paul Adelstein: He needed the pugnac, he needed to drop the thing through the grate. Then he needed access to the place for them all to get out, right?

Sarah Wayne Callies: And then he needed a plea for clemency, right? Like mid season, he needed, hey, would you please tell your father? And

Paul Adelstein: then he needed the key to the door, and then he needed you to leave the door open.

Paul Adelstein: Like, all that was new, and it's so great, the raising of the stakes. What were you saying? I interrupted.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, what's interesting is for all the planning that he did, what he doesn't know, Because it's supposed to be anonymous, is that she's an addict. And that every one of these moments jeopardizes her sobriety, right?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Like every, because her sobriety is relatively recent, you know? It's not like she's been sober 20 years. It's been a couple years, maybe. I think maybe it's like a year. [00:17:00] Um, but what I think we see for the first time is this isn't just. I'm annoyed. I'm hurt. I'm whatever. It's, it's, I, this could actually send somebody into the kind of relapse that would maybe put another body in his hands.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And he doesn't know that,

Paul Adelstein: which is interesting. No, but it's also great because it, it keeps, it makes the stakes for her of her own redemption in a way high in that these decisions come with these real stakes for her that aren't that, I mean. That aren't just, did I do the right thing ethically? But, this is gonna, I'm collapsing, I'm collapsing under the weight of this decision.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Which

Paul Adelstein: is great. It's just

Sarah Wayne Callies: great. And with a father who's running for vice president, there will be no leniency. You know what I mean? Like, no one's going to get you out of jail for this one.

Paul Adelstein: Did [00:18:00] you know at this point if you were going to leave the door open? I mean, did the writers tell you? Did you not, were you literally waiting for scripts to come out like the rest of us were on almost every I

Sarah Wayne Callies: don't think I asked.

Paul Adelstein: Uh huh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I, I think it was a like

Paul Adelstein: I guess you wouldn't need to, right? You don't need to know.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's coming. Yeah, I mean, to me, the episode very much lived in the weighing of the decision and in the assumption that like, the assumption is no. I mean, I think she leaves the room with Michael going, you're out of your fucking mind.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Like, no, I'm not going to commit a felony to help you escape. Like, there's a lot that I would do to commit

Paul Adelstein: a felony. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Um, and then I think it's the, it's the conversation with her father that, that shifts that. Can I

Paul Adelstein: ask about your necklace?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, you mentioned you had a question about that.

Paul Adelstein: I just hadn't noticed it before.

Paul Adelstein: Was it, it looks to be, [00:19:00] uh, totemic in some kind of way. Was it important to you? Did you choose it? Do you, do you remember? Did she wear it in multiple episodes? Is it something? Was it a charactery, was it a character y thing?

Sarah Wayne Callies: You know, the thing that I asked for was, I don't want to change jewelry. It drives me nuts when you've got somebody who's supposed to be like, someone who's all about their job, but they have a different, like, they have a whole different jewelry situation every day.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's like, that's not, you know. Most of us do. You've got your wedding ring or your whatever. You've got the things you wear every day and leave it. Um, and the thing that I had asked for that I do have on an episode, every episode was an AIDS bracelet, the those silver, um, cuff bracelets with a little AIDS ribbon on it that was raised for poop.

Sarah Wayne Callies: AIDS research partly because it was like a, it's like every time you bought a bracelet it was like 30 bucks and all the proceeds go to AIDS research. Mm hmm. Um, this was 2006 back when AIDS was a very different kind of diagnosis and that somebody [00:20:00] very important to me early in my life had died of AIDS.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, and so that mattered to me, and I thought it would be something that might matter to Sarah. The necklace was something Wardrobe found, and we thought it was kind of cool. I've got it on in a lot of episodes, um, probably most

Paul Adelstein: of them.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It looked like a, um, it looked like an abacus to us.

Paul Adelstein: Ah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And we thought it was kind of cool, this idea that there's this, you know, there's this Sort of constant, like, score one for the good guy, Calculation.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes. I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but. There is a

Paul Adelstein: scene where you're, you commented about it in the rewatch, where she's looking around, he told her what he's up to, and she's looking around the room, and I thought for For a second. Obviously it didn't go this way where she was like, oh, you're gonna shimmy across the thing and make it to the pipe so that you could, like, suddenly she was an expert in where she like puts it all together.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, she puts it all together. [00:21:00]

Sarah Wayne Callies: Wait a minute, let me guess. You've dug a hole behind your toilet.

Paul Adelstein: Exactly.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You're gonna come through the pipes. Exactly. You were gonna lift up through No. Yeah. No, I think it was just, uh, try and make sense out of it. I, in when I was doing Tarzan. Um, which is the first like series I was in from the pilot.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, our director David Nutter in the pilot was brilliant and I remember him saying to somebody who was a very new actor at the time, Just wiggle your eyes and look around the room a few places, it'll make it look like you're thinking.

Paul Adelstein: It's 100 percent true.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I was like, that is the most specific direction I can imagine and so effective.

Paul Adelstein: Wiggle your eyes though, what is wiggling your eyes? Well not

Sarah Wayne Callies: wiggle, but it's like, just look at a few different places.

Paul Adelstein: You can tell, it's, you can tell, I don't want to go too far down the actor rabbit hole, but I think it's a hard, it's, you can tell, I can tell, or maybe I think I can tell, [00:22:00] When an actor isn't thinking about anything and they're supposed to be.

Paul Adelstein: Where it's just like, oh, they're just on my face. I don't have to be thinking about anything because I'm supposed to be thinking about something? Because when an actor is thinking about something Mm hmm. It reads, I don't know if they're actually thinking about what they're supposed to be thinking about in the It almost doesn't matter.

Paul Adelstein: Who told me, who told me that they wrote, not told me, I saw it in an interview with somebody, where they, oh I think it was Christian Bale, where he wrote some character of his that was very quiet. He wrote like extensive things of like what the person would be thinking, which is cool. You can also just do it.

Paul Adelstein: My favorite example is Al Pacino in Insider, where he plays a reporter, or producer, uh, of, of 60 Minutes, and he's, he does a lot of sitting in front of, like, notebooks, or like, waiting for a fax to come in thinking, and I'm convinced in every scene that he's thinking about the thing he's supposed to be thinking about.

Paul Adelstein: Whether he actually is or not, doesn't actually matter because whatever he's doing, it reads to me [00:23:00] anyway.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, but I, it is a pet peeve when they, especially to me, when they cut to someone who isn't talking and I'm like, your job is not to wait for your next line.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Your job is to live a life that makes that next line inevitable, which means you're thinking about

Paul Adelstein: something.

Paul Adelstein: There was a thing in practice where a couple of us would catch ourselves just making a W sound. With our mouths as like, yeah, like you're about to say, like, because it could be like, wait, wait, wait, or it could be what? Or it could be what? Why? Maybe that's an act. Maybe that's a good acting or bad or bad acting trick.

Paul Adelstein: It's whacking. It is definitely whacking.

Sarah Wayne Callies: There was something else you were going to tell me about, which is the act five montage. Which, let me tell you what, that was a fascinating example in this episode.

Paul Adelstein: I don't know TV history enough to know if that was actually new. Like I don't, I wonder if they did that [00:24:00] in let's say, Hill Street Blues.

Paul Adelstein: Speaking of which, Daniel J. Trivanti, who plays the president, he was the lead on Hill Street Blues. He was absolutely one of my favorite actors growing up. He was amazing. Just brilliant on show. Oh, that's cool. And, and I never watched it. My parents did not let me, first thing I did on TV with show called Missing Person shot in Chicago, he, I had, uh, uh, my very first scene on TV with him.

Paul Adelstein: Anyway, that was many, many years before prison Break. Um, there's a thing that they would do on Gray's and on private practice, and I think a lot of shows do it, but I feel like Shonda took it to another level, which was like a needle drop montage. Mm-Hmm. in Act five of a show where there's all of these storylines.

Paul Adelstein: that are all at a crisis point. And you're

Sarah Wayne Callies: checking in on every

Paul Adelstein: one of them. And you're checking in on everybody kind of only visually. Mm hmm. Like there's maybe a couple of lines, but the, you know, a lot of times on Grey's or on Private, the music was way louder than the dialogue. [00:25:00] Like it was, it was a filmic convention.

Paul Adelstein: It was something you'd see in a movie that I don't think was done on television a lot, which is, you know, there's this 90 second Almost interlude, almost operatic interlude of somebody laying in a hospital bed, somebody sitting in a car, looking at a house, somebody

Sarah Wayne Callies: rocking a

Paul Adelstein: baby, and you know, when a show that has these ensembles like Prison Break does, and all these people that are reaching crisis point at the same time, it is a way to very, uh, I think elegantly.

Paul Adelstein: Show you where everybody's at, I mean, and it's a great expositional reminder, right? I mean, C Notes making a decision, looking at the guy, yeah, don't forget Westmoreland has to go, he's trying to get to his daughter, um, all that stuff is happening at the same time and it really kind of tees it all up, I should say.

Paul Adelstein: It's, it's great. I didn't remember that, that [00:26:00] Prison Break did that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We don't often, I think there's one more earlier in the season. What I remember about, and they didn't do that, uh, on Prison Break with this one because it probably wouldn't have been appropriate, but I remember some of those Act 5 montages, like changing musicians lives because Oh, I

Paul Adelstein: mean

Sarah Wayne Callies: They did a, Israel Kamalkabiva Ole did a cover of Somewhere Over the Rainbow, and I think that was Grey's?

Sarah Wayne Callies: It might have been ER. I can't remember. It was a hospital show. Um, and it put him on

Paul Adelstein: the map. Graze would do that, and these people would rock it, I mean, those songs would rock it. And then Graze started doing a thing where they would actually, at the end of the episode, then have a credit, like a single card credit of like, this song is available on Apple Music, da da da da da da.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I will also say some of those, I've had to shoot one of those as a director, and it's cool. It's pretty cool. But it can also be a little daunting [00:27:00] because you're like, this only is a half a page. Yes. But it's seven different setups. You know what I mean? Like we've got to go to seven different actors and seven different locations and we've got to get enough shots and we've got to have enough movement.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And so it can be one of those sort of Rome Burns things where they're like, yeah, you know, it's a half a page and you're like, right, but it's actually a full day's work.

Paul Adelstein: And in terms of acting or directing an actor or being directed. Mm hmm. It's one of those, you're looking wistfully at the, okay, we have 10 minutes to do this, but it's like the low point of your life.

Paul Adelstein: Okay. And go.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. And

Paul Adelstein: like we were talking about, you don't want to talk in conclusions with actors and as an actor you don't want to. Well, we were talking

Sarah Wayne Callies: with Silas about that.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. Sometimes you do want to get to all the conclusion, but you know, just looking wistfully isn't really actable usually. So, it's a, it can be a delicate thing to shoot.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And it can be tricky to get an actor to a place where you're like, I know you have no words and no run up, but [00:28:00] this needs to actually be as full and potent as if. You had been having a conversation with this person all

Paul Adelstein: day. And we're going to lunch in four minutes, so.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Exactly. And half the crew is already looking at their cell phones.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Curse. Curse. Um.

Paul Adelstein: And this thing we have to do after lunch, we have to move to the next location, so.

Sarah Wayne Callies: My favorite one is when it sounds like, can I just pull your wire before lunch, because there's no words in this scene. And you're just like. Yeah, but I get me

Paul Adelstein: started. Don't get me started. Sound departments hate me.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, it's frustrating when you get pulled in for looping on a day off to do a PSI.

Paul Adelstein: Do they hand you a page when you go to looping, which is when you add sound in and a lot, and when you get there and there's no dialogue, it just says efforts. Yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: yeah. Because somebody decided they didn't need to wire you, you're like, no, no.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Acting does happen sometimes without words. There are sounds that human bodies make. Um, okay. There was something else that I wanted to [00:29:00] ask you. Oh, we were talking a lot about scents and Brussels sprouts. Uh, okay. So. in the middle of this.

Paul Adelstein: I just wonder, and again, like I don't care if it's real or not, I just, but I, I do wonder, you know, if I'm ever a fugitive from justice and I

Sarah Wayne Callies: If a handful of brussels sprouts are to be tracked.

Paul Adelstein: If, if dogs are, if I'm ever being chased by dogs and I need to cover my own scent, if you rubbed brussels sprouts in your domicile, wherever the dogs are going to smell, but then you, don't you smell like brussels sprouts then? Well, okay, so here's, listen. I guess if they went and showered, then they would just smell like teabag and they wouldn't smell like brussels sprouts.

Paul Adelstein: Sorry for the image. You don't ever want to smell like teabag, let's just,

Sarah Wayne Callies: let's just get this over with. Okay, backing up, I think there's two big buys in this show, and I actually love that they kind of say to the audience, I know, just fucking go with it. The first one [00:30:00] is a baggie with a cup of peroxide.

Sarah Wayne Callies: is going to bleach an entire

Paul Adelstein: prison. In a

Sarah Wayne Callies: toilet. In a toilet full of water. I mean, like, it would actually be kind of amazing if in the next episode they all got out, it was like tie dyed. I love the bye that they kind of say to the audience, listen, at this point in the season, we've done some really extraordinary mental calisthenics, just go with us on this one, calm down.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And the second one is, yes, that I think that moment of, and I hope somebody memed this at some point. Of teabag walking up to one of his cronies and being like, You're gonna eat your tots? Like, it's such a Napoleon Dynamite moment. Yeah. In the cafeteria where he takes a handful of brussels sprouts. Puts them the reason, Here's my pitch.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Here's my pitch for why it might have worked. Because all the dogs have to get the scent is a cell that has two bodies in it.

Paul Adelstein: Okay. [00:31:00]

Sarah Wayne Callies: And a bed.

Paul Adelstein: And no, there's not like rows and rows of clothes. There's not carpeting.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right. Right. So like if you, Paul.

Paul Adelstein: There's sheets and blankets, basically.

Sarah Wayne Callies: There's sheets.

Sarah Wayne Callies: There's a shitty pillow. And that's kind of the end of the list. And so if you, Paul, were running from the authorities, I think it might take more than a handful of brussels sprouts to get you there. But I think under these circumstances.

Paul Adelstein: Is it cool Hannah Luke where they rub, he rubs lemon on him? Or maybe I'm thinking of a different movie.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. There's a

Sarah Wayne Callies: scene in I think the third episode, maybe second, of Walking Dead where they cover themselves in garbage bags smeared with zombie gut so they smell like zombies not living human beings and they have to walk through a crowd of zombies. In it is my favorite line of the entire series written by Frank Rabon, where Steven Y's cha Steven Yen, uh, plays Glenn Turns to Andy Lincoln's character and he says, if bad ideas, [00:32:00] oh God, if bad ideas were an Olympic event, this would win the gold.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's my favorite line.

Paul Adelstein: Um, by the way, when you say it's a buy as a, as in in, in a writing sense, like, go with this, this may not make a hundred percent sense, but. Yeah. It's a bye for this episode. I'm asking you to buy it. Do you spell that B U Y or B Oh, okay. A bye. Yeah. Like, I buy it. Okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. I buy this.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Not like a bye, like,

Paul Adelstein: you know, in sports where you're like, oh, they have a bye this week? It's B Y E. Like, they're skipping. I've never

Sarah Wayne Callies: understood what that means.

Paul Adelstein: I think it just means, like, bye. That's, that's not how I always thought it meant.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Like they're not playing that week,

Paul Adelstein: because bye. Bye. Because it's spelled B Y E.

Paul Adelstein: I don't know. Or like a bye election. I don't know.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, okay. One more story because I know we have to wrap this up, but, uh, I keep punting this about the Golden Globes. It's not like it's that fascinating, but it was a very small thing. Most of the cast, except you and I, got to go to the People's Choice [00:33:00] Awards, um, because I think we were the ones shooting that day and they wanted the cast to have a big presence.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And so they went and they won. And as you've already mentioned, Wentworth was in, I believe, the restroom when, um, The win was called. And that was cool. Then we were nominated for a Golden Globe. And Golden Globes tickets are hard to come by. And I believe they didn't give anyone in the cast any ticket.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That they went to the producers and the executives, um, and Wentworth was given a ticket and a plus one. Was he nominated? He was nominated. Yes. He was nominated for Best Actor in a television series. Um, and by the way, earned that nomination so many times over the season. Um, and I remember we [00:34:00] were sitting on set one day and he was like, it strikes me as unfair that I'm going to get to go to two of these and you're not going to get to go to any.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I was like, your face is the one on the poster. But he was like, do you want to come and be my date? And I was like, that's single sweetest thing ever. Um, it was so lovely. And it, you know, it served a few purposes. He's like, listen, I think the audience would be happy to see Another cast member, also, he's like, I'm not dying to sit at a table full of executives from the show with no one that I really know.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, you know, also he was not out at the time and to sort of obviate the question of who's he going to bring as his date. But it was still, it meant the world. And it was one of those moments where I called my team and was like, Hey, what does this mean? I get to go to this thing. And And, um, there was, by this [00:35:00] point, a website called Sarah Wayne Calley's Looking Stunned because I was so bad at taking photos on the red carpet because I, you know, I'm not a model.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I don't know how to do this. That every time I would get on the red carpet, I would like, my eyes would go real big and I'd be like, and I would literally look like a deer in the night.

Paul Adelstein: Oh my goodness.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And there were so many of these photos from various prison break events leading up to that there was a website called Sarah Wayne Calley's Looking Stunned.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I actually thought it was kind of funny. No, stunned. Stunned. Dunned.

Paul Adelstein: That's even funnier.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Dunned. And so I went to Wentworth and I was like, can you talk me through how to like, take a decent red carpet photo? And he and another friend of ours, mutually, Peter Page, was like, here's your red carpet technique.

Sarah Wayne Callies: But I spent weeks. before this event. Weeks. Practicing in the mirror how not to look stunned and then realize I don't have anything to wear and I'm in Chicago. [00:36:00] We're gonna fly into this. And so, um, somebody on my team, um, was Was like, I think I can find you a dress. Literally stuck a dress from Benaz Seraphor, I remember it was her design.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Stuck a dress in a FedEx envelope, like it got to me in Chicago, I opened it, the dress slid out, I tried it on, and I was like, it, it's, and that was my entire golden globe sitting. And they were like, great, wear that. Weirdest. It was, it was my first ever, I'd never been to an awards ceremony. Um, I found it hugely, in some, I mean, very disappointing, but also a relief in some ways, because I was like, oh, this whole thing is just kind of cheesy and weird, and I don't care at all about it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: But, um,

Paul Adelstein: Do you remember what, like, the big movies were that year? Like, what were the, If I remember right, And who hosted?

Sarah Wayne Callies: It

Paul Adelstein: wasn't Poehler and Fey yet, right?

Sarah Wayne Callies: No. Okay, so I've [00:37:00] been to two of them. One was Queen Latifah. And one was, um, Ricky Gervais.

Paul Adelstein: Ooh. Wow.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think this was the Latifa one.

Paul Adelstein: Mm hmm. That seems about the right timing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: She was astonishing.

Paul Adelstein: Seems a little early for Gervais.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think it was a little early for

Paul Adelstein: Gervais. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, I remember the red carpet being like, um, like a quarter of a mile.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It was so big.

Paul Adelstein: So long. Those are crazy.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh my God. It was bonkers. And I was like the first person down it, you know, I was like, I'm the least favorite, per least famous person at this event, right?

Sarah Wayne Callies: And then I got there and I sat down and there was no one in the room. And I was like, oh, I'm just gonna sit here in this ballroom and eat bread and drink water until somebody shows

Paul Adelstein: up. I'll find it really hard to not just be like, and I'll have another wine.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And

Paul Adelstein: then by the time the thing is halfway through, you're not in good shape.

Paul Adelstein: That would be. I was wearing a

Sarah Wayne Callies: white silk dress and I was so afraid that if I ordered wine, I would be wearing a pink spotted [00:38:00] silk dress, which could have been possible. Um, okay, so, I mean I think that's kind of, there's so much to talk about in this episode, but I think we should probably let the people, um, let the people go about their days and their lives.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Let's

Paul Adelstein: do the fan archive question things, but let's um, let's take a quick break and come back and do that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, let's take a break.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, welcome back everybody. Today, I'm gonna call this the second installment of uh, of this sort of fan archive

Paul Adelstein: question. Oh, did you find, did you find another fan letter? I did. Back in the day? Okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I found another back in the day letter. I, we won't keep doing this, but this one I loved it. This was from um, someone named Steve Jolly.

Paul Adelstein: Sure. Of

Sarah Wayne Callies: Portsmouth, England.

Paul Adelstein: Okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Uh, and it was in this big giant manila envelope of, that I had marked international [00:39:00] fan mail, uh, from 2007. So, um, I didn't, there wasn't like a date on his letter, it was from around then. Um, but I never answered these questions, I just sent him like an autographed headshot, like a total idiot.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And so, Paul. That's nice. Um, you ready to help me get back to, uh, Steve Jolly? He probably wrote to you too.

Paul Adelstein: Um, hold on. Steve's right here. I'm going to bring him out. Steve. I don't know if Steve ever wrote me. I don't, I don't recall. Um, but yes, please hit me. Let's hear it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. If you could star alongside anyone living or dead, who would it be?

Sarah Wayne Callies: By the way, it doesn't say actor. So I suppose if you really wanted to star alongside Drake. You could star

Paul Adelstein: Star along? Oh my goodness.

Sarah Wayne Callies: If you want to think about it for a second, I can ask you the next questions. You can answer in the order Wait, I want you to answer Well, no, you have to go first. Why?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Because I've [00:40:00] talked too much because you're not in this episode. Disagree. I'm sorry.

Paul Adelstein: You, you've had this question. If I could star along anyone living or dead, who would it be? Um, I'm gonna go Kath and Hepburn. Like in one of those, I don't know, I thought, there's something about you and Michael, by the way, in the infirmary scene, kind of doing some rapid fire, I mean, it was a serious conversation, but it had a Howard Hawks, 30s, 40s rom com rat a tat tat, which I really like.

Paul Adelstein: A little bit of a A little of that. I love, I would love to do that with Katherine Hepburn, or, um, uh, Meryl Streep, or, um, Philip Seymour Hoffman.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, Phil Hoffman, that's a really good one. Yeah. That's a really good one. Um, okay. Uh, what's the next one? What's your favorite film of all time? What's your answer?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'm going with Hawthorne. It's

Paul Adelstein: a great Oh, you're going with Phil Hawthorne. So you're just stealing from me. Okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes, I'm just stealing

Paul Adelstein: [00:41:00] from you. What is my favorite film of all time? Um, I'm not gonna say it's the best film of all time or anything like that. I'm just gonna say like No,

Sarah Wayne Callies: just your particular

Paul Adelstein: A film that I'm gonna just say Jaws.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh! Which I've never actually seen.

Paul Adelstein: I just can't get enough of it. I just love it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's wonderful. Um, mine is Spring, Summer, Winter, Fall, Spring, which is a very obscure South Korean film that I think is the most beautiful thing ever shot.

Paul Adelstein: Okay. I'm gonna have to, um, adding that to my list, never seen it. I think you would dig it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, okay, last question from Steve Jolly. What would you be doing if you weren't an actress? That was targeted to me, so we'll.

Paul Adelstein: Okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: tailored to you as, as, as you'd like to.

Paul Adelstein: If you were not an actor. I wouldn't imagine you use the term actress, do you? I don't even know. But it

Sarah Wayne Callies: doesn't bug me.

Paul Adelstein: It doesn't bug you?

Paul Adelstein: Okay. Um.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I don't think anybody ever called me an actress as a way of being insulting. I call myself an actor, but I don't think anybody ever was like, [00:42:00] I'm gonna call you an actress just to belittle

Paul Adelstein: you. It just seems like a strange distinction. Best actor, best actress. Um, I would like to think I would be a musician.

Paul Adelstein: Um, I would like to think that I would be a filmmaker or a writer of some kind. I don't know if those things are possible, but that's what I would hope.

Sarah Wayne Callies: What if I were to kick you out of entertainment altogether?

Paul Adelstein: Woof.

Paul Adelstein: Is writing entertainment? Can I write books or something? Yes, you can write books. Okay, yeah, then I would choose that writing. Okay, you'd write books. With the ADHD under control, I would choose writing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Does that help? To write?

Paul Adelstein: I'm saying it, no. No, it's a nightmare.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, great. Um, I'm so sorry that you're suffering.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We could all practice some meditation together. I think I would probably be a prof, um, someplace in the world. Yeah, there we go. Steve Jolly. Uh, those are the answers to your questions. And if you're out there somewhere, young

Paul Adelstein: Steven, [00:43:00]

Sarah Wayne Callies: um, hit us up. We'd love to hear from you.

Paul Adelstein: All right, that's our show for today, folks.

Paul Adelstein: Thank you for listening. We will leave you with the call in question of the week. This one is not prison break related, strictly speaking. We're just nosy.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. Here's the question. What's the most bonkers thing you've ever asked someone to do for you?

Paul Adelstein: Oh, that's good. It is

Sarah Wayne Callies: prison break related. If it's not leaving a prison door unlocked and committing a zillion felonies, we would love to hear it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. You can leave us a message at 401 3P BREAK. That's three P B R E A K, um, and, uh, remind me, Paul, next time I will tell you the story of the most insane thing my husband ever asked me to do.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, good. Which was

Sarah Wayne Callies: When

Paul Adelstein: we, when we, when

Sarah Wayne Callies: we A felony.

Paul Adelstein: Oh. And I

Sarah Wayne Callies: didn't do it.

Paul Adelstein: When we get to the answers from our line, we will make sure that we hear that story.

Paul Adelstein: All right. And with that, we leave you.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Bye, everybody. [00:44:00] Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul is a Calibre Studio production, where hosts have been friends with our besties, Sarah Wayne Callies and Paul Edelstein. Our prison warden has been producer Ben Haber. Our head of Jailhouse Rock is Paul Edelstein, who made the music for this podcast.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Keeping us slim and trim, the prison yard has been sound designer and editor, the great Jeff Schmidt. Keeping us up to date on the outside world is production assistant Drew Austin. Our prison artists are Logo and brand designer is John Nunziato and LittleBigBrands. Check them out at www. littlebigbrands.

Sarah Wayne Callies: com. Follow us on Instagram at Prison Break Podcast. Email us at prisonbreaking at caliber studio. com. And call us at 401 3P B R E A K. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul has been a Caliber Studio production. Thank you for listening.