PB-E19 DISCUSS 070224 ===

Sarah Wayne Callies: [00:00:00] Welcome back, Fish's folks and friends. This is Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul, and I'm Sarah.

Paul Adelstein: And I'm Paul. And we do not have a guest today because we have a lot to discuss, just us. And I have notes going back like four episodes to discuss other things. Can I start singing

Sarah Wayne Callies: just the two of us now?

Paul Adelstein: Um, or Two of Us by the Beatles. Or Just the Two of Us by Bill Withers. Either one.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Or by Will Smith, the cover from the, the, yeah.

Paul Adelstein: I don't know about that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, treat yourself. It's pretty great. Okay.

Paul Adelstein: Anyway, whichever one it is, we can't afford it. We totally can't, that's fair.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, also, in this episode, uh, I mean this episode is just not a small deal.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's called The Key, by the way, for those of you tuning in.

Paul Adelstein: And we are [00:01:00] really into the sprint to the finale at this point. This is episode 19, four episodes of the season left to go, including this one. It's just

Sarah Wayne Callies: like

Paul Adelstein: Mainlining adrenaline all the way. Mm

Sarah Wayne Callies: hmm. Like, with the return

Paul Adelstein: of John Abruzzi. John Abruzzi, John Abruzzi?

Paul Adelstein: John

Sarah Wayne Callies: Abruzzi, John Abruzzi.

Paul Adelstein: My goodness. All right, Palestine Index. Palestine Index? Palestine

Sarah Wayne Callies: Index.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: The Key was written by Zach Estrin and Matt Olmsted, directed by Sergio Mimica Cazan. The episode aired Monday, April 24th, 2006 at 8 p. m. and drew a rating of 8. 63 million viewers. Competition in the time slot, this will be familiar to those of you who are listening, it included a rerun of Wife Swap on ABC, a return of King of Queens on CBC, CBS, sorry.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And uh, Canadian. The Canadians aren't airing King of Queens. Um, they don't know where Queens is. That's not sure. We do. Queens, Queens

Paul Adelstein: is different. Queens is different to them. Anyway, go on.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Queens, that's, Queens, Queens [00:02:00] includes Her Royal Highness, um, and Deal or No Deal on NBC.

Paul Adelstein: Okay, at this point in the season, let's do a comprehensive recap because there are lots of threads to follow.

Paul Adelstein: After the car crash, Kellerman tries to kill Lincoln, but he is saved in the last moment by a good Samaritan. Lincoln discovers that the stranger is actually his father. Who explains that he worked for the company and Lincoln is a victim of a revenge plot against him. Back at Fox River Wait,

Sarah Wayne Callies: stop. Does that mean he can say,

Paul Adelstein: I'm your father?

Paul Adelstein: Oh my goodness. Sorry, go ahead,

Sarah Wayne Callies: as you were.

Paul Adelstein: Okay, back at Fox River, John Abruzzi. John Abruzzi has returned after Teabag slit his throat many episodes ago. Apparently, he has converted into a deeply religious man. He meets with Teabag. They make a truce, we think. Michael tells his partners that he needs the key to the infirmary.

Paul Adelstein: Later, in that same infirmary. Michael kisses Sarah finally and asks her, asks her to wait for him. [00:03:00] Then his wife, Nika, seeks out Sarah as a ruse to steal the key. Tweener is in trouble with his new Sally Avocado, and so he castrates his abuser. As you do. Cullerman tracks down Lincoln and his father, but the police arrive and Captain Bellick arrests Lincoln, saving him from Cullerton, saving him from Cullerman for a second time in one day.

Paul Adelstein: Veronica finds many calls from Montana on Quinn's phone. We discover that Nick Saverin is working for Abruzzi.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Woo! Right. All of that. Um, Some other things going on the week of April 24th, 2006. How could something else

Paul Adelstein: possibly be going on at the same time? That's just so many things going on.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So many things.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, On April 23rd, I love this so much, Magician David Copperfield was robbed at gunpoint No! After a performance in West Palm Beach, Florida. Of course it was Florida. Copperfield turned out his pockets to show the criminal they were empty, only to reveal later to police there was a stand. This is bullshit.

Sarah Wayne Callies: His pockets were actually full of his passport, [00:04:00] wallet, and cell phone. This

Paul Adelstein: is bullshit.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Not according to our intern Drew's infallible research.

Paul Adelstein: Okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, also, if it's not true, it should be true. So never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Paul Adelstein: Fair enough.

Sarah Wayne Callies: April 21st, I imagine this is verifiable, was the 80th birthday of Her Royal Highness, Queen Elizabeth II.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Bullshit.

Paul Adelstein: Okay. Sorry.

Sarah Wayne Callies: On April 22nd. Nope. April 26th, a groundbreaking ceremony was held in New York City for the construction of the Freedom Tower on Ground Zero, where One World Trade Center had stood.

Paul Adelstein: Also that week, on April 22nd, the NBA playoffs began, where the Miami Heat would go on to become the league champions, and Dwayne Wade was made MVP, scoring 654 points.

Paul Adelstein: These playoffs also marked the playoff debut of the Cleveland Cavaliers LeBron James. And finally, on April 23rd, the first ever video was uploaded to YouTube called Me at the Zoo. The 19 second video [00:05:00] featured the co founder of YouTube in front of two elephants at the San Diego Zoo, as one does.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You know, it'll never take that newfangled technology.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, it's a fad. It's a fad. Uh, and with that Here are the highlights from our watch party for The Key.

Paul Adelstein: Part of the original serotonin credit manipulation plan was not to keep the door open. That's new. Oh no. Oh golly. Oh! Oh my gosh!

Sarah Wayne Callies: Wow! Holy smokes. I showed up to your execution, does that count? Wait a second. What's up with the shank situation? Thought you shook on it.

Paul Adelstein: Michael's wife that's making you fall in love with him.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Who's letting her know that I care. Of course she loves him, I

Paul Adelstein: mean.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, wait for season two. She 100 percent loves him. Ooh, angry pope is frightening. Oh, [00:06:00] I really want to watch the next episode right now. My voice went up like six octaves.

Paul Adelstein: All right, that was the key there were some audible gasps and exclamations and we're gonna discuss it all we'll be right back

Paul Adelstein: All right. Welcome back everyone Some things to get into stutter acting we talked about this during the rewatch a few episodes back. I made a note of it

Sarah Wayne Callies: Uh huh. Uh huh.

Paul Adelstein: Maxim magazine and a Maori. I think I know what is coming there Sarah's hair color Paul's first time working with Dom, People's Choice Award, um Did you go to the

Sarah Wayne Callies: pub?

Paul Adelstein: No, did you go?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I didn't, but I feel like almost all the rest of the cast did.

Paul Adelstein: I remember Wentworth

Sarah Wayne Callies: being Like, went Dom, I'm

Paul Adelstein: outtie. I remember Wentworth being in the bathroom though when That checks. That totally checks. He was peeing and he heard his name being called. When they announced the win. Yes, that we won the People's Choice Awards.

Paul Adelstein: Although, not the Golden Globes, right? No. No, we [00:07:00] didn't win that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, okay. Plus, I wrote down, let's talk about, I wrote down jacket, Paul, car lot scene, and the ways I would change what I did in the scene with the kiss.

Paul Adelstein: Let's start there. First of all, um, you know, actors will often It's hard to watch yourself sometimes, and so actors will say, Oh, I wish I had done X instead of Y, but tell us specifically what you put there.

Sarah Wayne Callies: This is, I don't know if this ever happens to you, but sometimes, uh, I'll leave a scene at the end of the day, and I'll be like, I don't feel like it, I didn't get, something just doesn't feel right. And it was maybe a dozen years later, I had one of those wake up in the middle of the nights and go, that's what I wish I'd done.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I wished After the kiss, Sarah had gone holy shit and just like fled to the other side of the room. So that then the rest of that conversation is like, [00:08:00] Sarah like leaned up against a thing, like against a countertop, and Michael at his like, so that immediately after that intimacy, there's this distance that has to be bridged again.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, I don't know that the powers that be would have been excited about that read, but I feel like. That big a transgression would send you flying back to the other side. Mm,

Paul Adelstein: mm, okay. You don't have to agree. I push back on that. Okay, tell me why. There is a distance, it just doesn't, it's just not a physical distance.

Paul Adelstein: You feel her freak out. She lets her guard down, not just with the kiss, with the smile afterwards. And then you see her shut down. And then she says, I can't do that about waiting for you or whatever. Like, you know, I think you played all those things, I understand what you're saying blocking wise, but

Sarah Wayne Callies: But I think, I think it puts him in a better position for me to say, I can't do this, I can't do this, when he is too far [00:09:00] away to take her hand, take her face, kiss her again, do I mean?

Sarah Wayne Callies: To like, To say, I did this, and now I'm, whoo, taking this total off the

Paul Adelstein: table. Okay, that's a good point, but counterpoint, if he's not up in her grill or she's not up in his grill at that point, it makes his decision

Sarah Wayne Callies: easier. Right, right, right, right.

Paul Adelstein: Because this is

Sarah Wayne Callies: all about, the key is right there. It's kind of all about

Paul Adelstein: him,

Sarah Wayne Callies: about, you know, the

Paul Adelstein: man.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Thank you for clarifying. I'm sorry I forgot which show I was on. Yeah, no. But no. Back to you.

Paul Adelstein: No. But I do mean that like, the tension of that, the fact that the audience Right. knows that there's this ticking time bomb thing also going on.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I would also just say is he gonna grab the key? Is this all about the key?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good

Paul Adelstein: point. But I would also say on its face, you, you, uh, You're also, [00:10:00] what's cool is that you guys are, um, I mean, I know that there's a privacy screen, but you guys do feel like you're also going through this pantomime of Dr. Patient, that that would, that moving across the room, if that guy came in the room, like it would seem like something was wrong, et cetera, et cetera.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, and we had, we had a, you know, I was a little bit struggling with the privacy screen because at that point we're nine episodes, 19 episodes in, we've had all these episodes in the infirmary. There's never been a privacy screen.

Paul Adelstein: It's the kind of thing that I, as a viewer, Sorry, am I keeping you up?

Paul Adelstein: Sorry, what happened? Did I yawn? Just teasing. Uh, it's four in the morning here, by the way, just so you know.

Sarah Wayne Callies: In Los Angeles? Yeah, yeah. Where it's currently 1048?

Paul Adelstein: Mm

Sarah Wayne Callies: hmm. Right on. Okay, that's fine.

Paul Adelstein: But you're a

Sarah Wayne Callies: musician, so this is like two in the morning for

Paul Adelstein: you. Yeah, right. Um, the privacy screen thing as a viewer is like, I didn't even, I wouldn't even [00:11:00] notice that.

Paul Adelstein: I would think, I would then do some weird narrative math in my head where there was always a privacy screen as opposed to never one. Was there one before? Oh, we just didn't see it before, but now it's, you know, but I understand on the day where you'd be like, well, how does this make sense?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, and in theory, you know, the way that Sergio kind of sold it is he was like, well, Michael has to take his shirt off.

Sarah Wayne Callies: in order to get the wound changed, the dressing changed on the burn, and it's like, sure, but, you know, a guy with his shirt off is not something that you need privacy for in prison. Um, but, anyway, we, you're absolutely right that that was one of those, you know, it was early enough in my career that I'm still thinking with the logic of theater brain, which is The audience is sitting with us the entire time.

Sarah Wayne Callies: They're going to catch everything. As opposed to, just go with it. It's TV. It's going to work. Trust me.

Paul Adelstein: Well, I also think that's important. I think the, the, well, don't worry about it. No one's going to notice. It is not a good instinct. So, I mean, look, I think it's always good to ask those questions. But, it didn't bother me.

Paul Adelstein: Well,

Sarah Wayne Callies: good. [00:12:00]

Paul Adelstein: Now that I've talked you out of your opinion about the, I'm just kidding.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, the scene is really Now that you've mansplained my own scene to me.

Paul Adelstein: The scene is super effective. And The kiss was surprisingly, um, aggressive? Aggressive, maybe that's the right word. I mean, he kind of lunges at you.

Paul Adelstein: It's not a kind of eyes meet moment, mutual coming together. Like, he just plants one on you.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, I mean, I think, if I remember right, our conversation was, if he telegraphs in any way this is coming,

Paul Adelstein: She's gonna bail.

Sarah Wayne Callies: She's gonna Heisman, you know. There, there will be a boundary there. What is interesting to me, it does come out of nowhere.

Sarah Wayne Callies: She goes with it. She then really goes with it. But when he says, wait for me, she never says, you're married, bro. And

Paul Adelstein: hasn't he already said that the marriage is a sham? [00:13:00] Or it's not what you think? Or

Sarah Wayne Callies: yeah, I mean, he said it's not what you think, but you know, I got to say as a woman, If a man says to me, my wife is not what you think, I'm not like, oh, cool.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Problem solved.

Paul Adelstein: That's a big no. Really? That's not, that's not, it's a big red flag. Big red, red flag. Uhhuh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We, we have a book of red flags that we pass around to each other in, of, in one those bathrooms.

Paul Adelstein: That's what my wife is not what you, my marriage is not what you think it is. Right. Right's one of'em.

Paul Adelstein: Exactly.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Exactly. And she'd be fine

Paul Adelstein: with this. Trust me. Noted. Yeah. Noted. Yeah. Yeah. Don't, you don't need, don't, yeah. I saved her from, I saved her from a sex trafficking ring. Just go with it. No. Don't do that. But I, myself, I'm not a sex trafficker.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right, right. I bought her from a sex trafficking ring, but I am not a sex

Paul Adelstein: trafficker.

Sarah Wayne Callies: My intentions are completely on the up and up, I promise. Just ask her.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. Um, how did we get on? I'll wait for you. Oh, that you don't ask about that. Okay, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We don't bring it up. I mean, what's, what I think is cool about it is that it is a scene. [00:14:00] that takes both of them by surprise. And so, whereas usually one of them is relatively in control in their interactions, doctor patient, or, you know, mastermind pawn, they're both back footed.

Sarah Wayne Callies: They're both like, oh, this is not going the way I thought it would. And there's something, I think, to the audience, Sarah doesn't know this, but to the audience, there's something extraordinary that he chooses. not to take the key from her in that moment. Um, because that had to have been a plan. I mean, the plan had to have been, you know, he locks the door so that she has to take her key out to unlock the door so that it would be, um, so that it would be, you know, out someplace that he knew where it was, in her pocket or on the table or whatever.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, so I don't know, you know, just another moment of Michael's humanity overcoming his, [00:15:00] There's a few things

Paul Adelstein: in this episode that do that, I mean the tweener thing is definitely that. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, wait, I want to back up though to, because I mean, this was the first time you'd ever worked with Dom, right?

Sarah Wayne Callies: It must have been. Mm hmm. And so, this in some ways is like Hellermann being pulled into The Ace story. More deeply into, yeah, like you're now on the show in a different way. I mean, on the show in a

Paul Adelstein: different way, but like No, no, it's, we, we do talk about it as like, oh, there's like three, three or three different shows going on.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. Yeah. It definitely felt like, oh. And this kind of brought them together. I'm bumping up to the, also it's a, there's a, there's a, um, excuse me, there's a, um, some kind of synergy between that and my wardrobe, for me, because I spent so much of season two in that jacket and jeans. So like, that's the first time you see Kellerman, well, as Owen Kravetsky, as Owen Kravetsky, [00:16:00] you see him in a different kind of, you know.

Paul Adelstein: Businessman outfit, but this is more like, Was it that

Sarah Wayne Callies: jacket and

Paul Adelstein: jeans that follow you all the way to season two? I mean, I don't know about the jeans, but it was definitely the jacket.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And were you happy with that?

Paul Adelstein: Oh, I loved that jacket. Did

Sarah Wayne Callies: you?

Paul Adelstein: Oh, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Tell me why.

Paul Adelstein: I don't know. It's just cool. It felt cool.

Paul Adelstein: It felt like, oh, this is really good. Like, it felt, it's slightly military, but it's cool. It's slightly detective, but it also just looks like a guy. I don't know. It felt, it felt very pragmatic. Mm hmm, but still chic. And fashionable, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Um. And it, uh, yeah, it just felt, it felt great. And so like, for him to show up in that to come and kill him, and working with Don was great.

Paul Adelstein: He was very generous, like, you know, I mean, I had to, and of course he was, I was like, okay, I'm gonna put these, Gloves over your face now, um, make sure you can breathe, and he was like, don't worry about it, bro. This is going to be fine. You absolutely can't hurt me. You can [00:17:00] totally kill, you can totally try to kill me.

Paul Adelstein: It's not gonna

Sarah Wayne Callies: work. You know, small side note, not that you're not ferocious and a terror and a phenomenal specimen of masculinity. I have been recently. trying to take a few jiu jitsu classes alongside my kids. And, uh, my eldest is very, very good and very accomplished. And the other day we were, uh, rolling and I was like, oh my gosh, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, did I hurt you?

Sarah Wayne Callies: And the response was so, like, Oh, no, mama, you, no, oh god, are we there, where like, I say, you know, am I gonna hurt you and they, they respond, do your worst. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There is a little bit of that with Dom. Like, I remember watching him downstream in sort of season two. In fight scenes it'd be like, this is fine, just don't, throw me wherever, hit me, you know, just like, oh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Because he's indestructible, right? Like, they dropped a whole set on [00:18:00] him

Paul Adelstein: in season five. And they said that had he not been linked to Sank, he'd actually been very seriously hurt. But we will get into there, into that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We will get

Paul Adelstein: into that. In three years when we're doing season five. Um, I also wanted to mention in that scene, before we move on.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. That there's a shot of me holding, uh, I'm holding the ice pack to my head. We shot the whole thing, and we were moving on, and I remember if we went back or not, and I didn't even look. And I was like, oh, they didn't wrap my fingers. Or I forgot to tell them to wrap my fingers. And I remember telling Sergio, Mimica Gizaninit, not going great.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Because you're out there. We're running out of light. Yeah. You know, the whole, the whole thing. You can't, that's not a fix it in post moment. No. I don't remember if we went back or not. I honestly don't remember.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I wonder if that's part of why it was actually so wide.

Paul Adelstein: Could be.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Because that shot was so wide that I wouldn't

Paul Adelstein: even know who, I mean, at that point who would notice.

Paul Adelstein: Although we do notice that I have them in [00:19:00] the, in the, um, junkyard and all that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Absolutely. I, you know, we had something similar in season five. I mean, there was so much to keep track of. This show is massive and for, for continuity supervisors, this, it's a real challenge. I remember shooting an entire scene and we'd been running and gunning all day, so I hadn't been in a trailer.

Sarah Wayne Callies: People were just, you know, like, and we'd been shooting out of order and I was like, Oh, you guys. I've got a huge, like, bruise on my face that should have been in this scene. And there was like a collective, like, oh my god, and it was just like, you can't, and I think we ended up having to reshoot. Uh, my coverage on it because they were just like, because you know, you shoot out of order, right?

Sarah Wayne Callies: And so it's like, earlier in the episode, I had a clean face, then I got a punched in the face. And then, and you know, it's those moments that none of us do our jobs perfectly, but it's got to feel a little bit like, you know, being a kicker at the Super Bowl. And

Paul Adelstein: yes, I think it is [00:20:00] because also it's one of those things where it's, it's, it's, it's It's more than one person's job.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm hmm. It's not just continuity. It is also makeup. No, no. It's also makeup. It's

Paul Adelstein: also, yeah, it's scripty. It's makeup. It's, it's, it should be discussed in a production meeting. It's first AD. It's everybody. And, and,

Sarah Wayne Callies: And sometimes us. Oh, a lot of times. A lot of times. I think a lot of times, yes. Oh, yeah, yeah. We also have to be, I think, sometimes the, you know, the sort of, uh, final

Paul Adelstein: stop on that train.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, 100%. 100%.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, that's right.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. And it's kind of always amazing when so many people miss it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Paul Adelstein: Uh, it just shows you how many things are going on at the same time. And

Sarah Wayne Callies: how much

Paul Adelstein: pressure

Sarah Wayne Callies: everyone's

Paul Adelstein: on. Speaking of continuity, I don't know if this goes to that, but you said something about Sarah's hair color.

Paul Adelstein: You said you wanted to talk about Sarah's hair color.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You asked me about it a few episodes back. And I, I mentioned that in the, well, I, [00:21:00] I'd written down something about like, Oh, tell you the story. Then I keep forgetting. So for people who are listening to our watch party, I've been like, what the hell? The very brief version of it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: My hair color in this show is the same color as JLo's hair. And here's why. Why? Because one of the very first jobs I ever had in New York. Uh, was a commercial job, that for a very, it's a long story, but because of some specifics of the audition process, um, I ended up under contract with L'Oreal, basically because nobody else showed up.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Not doing fancy stuff. Doing Oh, thank you. Okay, first of all, cut that shit out. No, no, no, no. But it was really true. They, like, dropped a breakdown at, like, three for an audition at five. On like Labor Day weekend and everyone was like, I absolutely not. I was like, I'll do anything. But so I ended up under contract and we did infomercials.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We did product launches. And the first one I ever did was for a hair care, a home hair care thing. [00:22:00] And the hairstylist that they hired to do the hair was this extraordinary man named Orbe. And Orbe is the sexiest man I've ever seen. Um, sorry, present company.

Paul Adelstein: You're married. You're married.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, no. And they're orbe is not, not straight.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Straight. And I'm sitting right here.

Paul Adelstein: Okay, fine.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Orbe is not straight. He is also no longer alive. But he like, I think he was Cuban and he had this like black pompadour, always a Chris boy shirt. Solid gold Rolex and tattoos of muscle cars the greatest. Wow. He was Jennifer Lopez's hairstylist for eons. Um, got super famous doing it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: He was a genius. And he was, he had to color my hair for the shoot. And he said, if I color your hair Jennifer's color, I can use all these amazing extensions and all these beautiful things that you could never afford. And I was like, sure. So he just colored my hair JLo's color. And for the next 10 years, whenever I'd go get my roots touched up, they'd be like, you want to stick with this color?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'd be like, sure. So [00:23:00] that's why my hair is that color.

Paul Adelstein: Anyway, your hair looks beautiful though.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Thank you. Uh, yeah, the color of my hair right now, underneath all of that, is white hair stress.

Paul Adelstein: Are you gray?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Like, right along my part, there's this, like, Pepe Le Pew strip.

Paul Adelstein: Like Susan Sontag?

Sarah Wayne Callies: And then on the, I don't really know what Susan Sontag's hair looked like.

Paul Adelstein: She had a kind of, what they always describe as, a shock of white hair.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, yeah, mine might be more like a shock and awe. There's quite a bit of it. I keep thinking I'm going to go ahead and, by the way, I almost got a spit take out of you on that. You

Paul Adelstein: really almost did. You almost did.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, yeah, I keep thinking I'm going to grow it out, then I grow it out for a couple of months and I'm like, ah.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: I don't like

Paul Adelstein: that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'm not ready. Okay, so tell me about shooting this car lot scene, because you said you learned a ton about car lots. And tell people who Sergio was, too, because that's a huge part

Paul Adelstein: of it. Okay, so Sergio Mimica Cazan, who directed this episode, he came back and directed season 2, and I've trailed him.

Paul Adelstein: He was the first [00:24:00] director I ever trailed. I was supposed to trail Yotanis, but I ended up being, um, Banned from set. Married during that week. Oh, wow. Potato, potato. Yeah, and, uh, but I trailed Sergio. He was, as you said, just such an, he just ran a set. Um, and he was a very nice guy. He had really only started directing recently.

Paul Adelstein: Because he'd been Spielberg's first AD. Well, I, we, and we kind of all didn't know that, but Sergio really knows his way around a set and making a day. Yeah. And so there's a thing where Dominic and his father run down a, a, a row of cars, right? Like, like cars on either side. And then I run down them and then I run down a couple more looking for them.

Paul Adelstein: And he, he would do this thing where. Did you do the French

Sarah Wayne Callies: reverse? Is

Paul Adelstein: that

Sarah Wayne Callies: what it's called? The French Reverse. What's that? Where you just turn the set around.

Paul Adelstein: Yes.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, so you go, you run from here [00:25:00] to there and I'll have the camera here. Now I put the camera where you were. Yep.

Paul Adelstein: And you go where I was. Yep.

Paul Adelstein: And he would do a thing where I would run away from the camera and then just turn around and run back towards camera. Yeah. And then do the other thing on the other side and end up with four shots. And I was like, wait, really? Like, I was like, I thought I was like, you know, pretty experienced at this point.

Paul Adelstein: And I was like, Are you sure that the, and he was like, yeah, yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: yeah. Is this going to cut? It's a hundred percent going to cut. And I think

Paul Adelstein: what they would do is sometimes they would like move one car in or out. Or like put something of a different color somewhere and you like, you'd never, I mean, I remember on Scooby Doo being like, that's the same background, they just keep running by the same.

Paul Adelstein: Uh huh. And you'd never ever notice it. You'd never notice it. And um, that was fascinating and really illuminating because I was like, oh, I, I, this is much more sophisticated. Then you'd think. And by sophisticated, I mean simpler.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, and it buys you the time to spend where you want [00:26:00] to spend it. On the scenes where you go, these actors need more time.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, what else do you want to talk about from the episode?

Paul Adelstein: Uh, can we Abruzzi's return real quick?

Sarah Wayne Callies: The

Paul Adelstein: return of

Sarah Wayne Callies: John Abruzzi, John Abruzzi.

Paul Adelstein: John Abruzzi, John Abruzzi. I somehow remember, it's always been in my head that it was a surprise to us that he came back to. A

Sarah Wayne Callies: hundred percent. I remember getting that script and being like.

Paul Adelstein: But, so, because I remember John, I remember, sorry, I remember Peter, Mr. Amari, who played John Ritchie, John Ritchie, saying goodbye. Is it possible that they, that he was done, and then they decided to bring him back?

Sarah Wayne Callies: That's what I thought. I thought, because Peter was a pretty big star, I thought he kind of agreed to come on for a handful of episodes at the beginning, um, and maybe, and I don't know what happened.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I don't know if part of what happened is, like, the show blew up. And his reps were like, Oh no, let's get him back on it. I [00:27:00] don't know. I don't know, maybe the writers were like, hey, we really need this. This

Paul Adelstein: is a good Olmstead Juring question, which is, is, was this, because does he escape with them, or does he go, oh my god, I can't even remember.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think he escapes with

Paul Adelstein: them. Because he's in season two.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think so. I think he's one of the Fox River Eight.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. And then he.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right, the Fox River Eight are, well, let's see if we can figure this out. Okay. Michael Lincoln Sucre. C note. Teabag. Teabag. Haywire. Tweener. Tweener. We're up to seven. Uh. Oh, who's eight?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Is it Abruzzi or is it? It's not Westmoreland. Westmoreland doesn't make it. He does not make it. I don't think Manche makes it either.

Paul Adelstein: No, I think those guys go down the night of.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. So I think Abruzzi is one of the Fox River Eight. Abruzzi. And

Paul Adelstein: then who is the Eight? Abruzzi.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That was eight.

Paul Adelstein: Oh boy, here we go again.

Paul Adelstein: Lincoln. Michael. Michael. Teabag. Sucre.[00:28:00]

Sarah Wayne Callies: Wait. God, we just had this. Michael Lincoln Sucre. Oh, Haywire. Haywire, yes. So that is eight.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um. So you got it. I'm trying to name the seven deadly dwarves. Got it.

Paul Adelstein: Seven deadly dwarves. Wow. You just, that was a real. Sorry. You mean that movie, remember that movie Seven about the serial, about the serial killer?

Paul Adelstein: Of dwarves. What's in the box? Um, okay, I think you should tell the, I think you should tell the Maxim story.

Sarah Wayne Callies: The Maxim story, it's very short, but, um, at a certain point in this show, many of the dudes on the show got super bloody famous, and when they were back in LA, lived a pretty amazing life where they were invited to all kinds of events and stuff, and I knew that Jamowdy, uh, was like super plugged into all that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And one day, during season one, I heard from my publicist, which I actually did [00:29:00] have and I rarely do, but, um, that Maxim magazine wanted to put me on the cover. And uh, it was interesting because they called and they're like, listen, this is an opportunity, it will lead to other opportunities. But my initial response was, how about you fax them a copy of my Ivy League degree in feminist theory and tell them, no, thank you.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And they were like, you don't need to be a dick about it. Um, I remember that around that time, they'd put Lucy Liu on the cover, and I'd seen her in the, I'd seen her issue in like the, whatever, pedicure, manicure spot, or I don't know, drugstore, whatever. And I was like, they took this brilliant, powerful, extraordinary, talented woman, and they turned her into a little fucking girl.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I was pissed about it. And it was really interesting. And so I, but I. I was torn. It was new to the business and I was like, I don't know. So I went to Amaudi and I was like, Papi, what do you think about this? And his answer was immediate. He goes, no, mommy, you're not one of those girls. He's like, I've gone to the parties.[00:30:00]

Sarah Wayne Callies: I see that he's like, you're not one of those girls. And I, and like, don't at me for this. No shade to people who make that choice. It's totally valid. I get it. I get it. I get it. But I always wanted to be somebody who was known for the work I did, not the body I did the work in, if that makes any sense. And to not feel like in order to earn my place, I had to walk around in clothes.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That God help me if I ever had a teenage kid and I was telling them to respect themselves a little more, they would hold this up and go, yeah, what about this?

Paul Adelstein: Also, I mean, I think the point you make about, and please correct me if I'm wrong, which I very well may be, is that Like what you saw, like Lucy Liu posing like that, for instance, like you're also not that person.

Paul Adelstein: I mean, there are people that do walk around in clothes like that and God bless them. I mean, that's how they want to move through the world. You don't, right? I mean, is that part of what he was saying?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, that's not, [00:31:00] that's not, Yeah, it's just not who you are. It's not who you are. Was his, was his point.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I, I've always been grateful for it because it was a moment in, early in my career where I went, I don't have to take everything I'm offered, even if it's better than what I've got, quote unquote, because you know, look, it, it makes you more famous. Those are a way to get people's attention. Um, but it was a, it was a moment and it meant a lot to me that he was like, nope, I've got a different, you're.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I don't think this is, this doesn't need to be your world. I still love you. I still respect you. I still value whatever. Anyway, so this is my brief thank you to Amaudi for, I don't know, being one of the voices that helped me, you know, kind of create my professional identity.

Paul Adelstein: And he's a great guy to hear that from.

Sarah Wayne Callies: 100%. 100%. Um.

Paul Adelstein: All right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: All right.

Paul Adelstein: [00:32:00] Um, let's leave it there for now and we'll be right back with some questions. I agree.

Sarah Wayne Callies: All right. So, welcome back everyone. Today, uh, we've got us something a little different for our fan questions. Paul, I dug up some questions from fan mail.

Paul Adelstein: Oh yes. From

Sarah Wayne Callies: 2007. Have at it. So, I found a bunch of letters from international fans back in the day, I think I mentioned this earlier.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And, um, while I know I sent them an autographed photo because it was in my folder that says answered fan mail, I never like, responded to the questions. So I thought today, Paul, you and I could answer some of these fan questions from 2007. Are you ready? Yes. It's gonna be great. Um, I did edit this down. The first questions, uh, these are actually all from the same letter.

Sarah Wayne Callies: From somebody named Simone Oman. From Finland, Simone wants to know your favorite candy or snack, your favorite singer or band, and which TV show slash movie are you most proud of and why? [00:33:00] So, Paul, should we start with your favorite candy or snack?

Paul Adelstein: Yes, uh, candy and snacks are different things, because I'm not a huge candy guy, but I would say my favorite snack is pretzels.

Paul Adelstein: Just love pretzels. Why does that make you

Sarah Wayne Callies: laugh? Of all the things, of all the things I love about you, I hate pretzels. That's why I'm laughing. Because it's like. Love pretzels. I, I like actively hate them. Oh, wow. Okay,

Paul Adelstein: uh, Snickers would be my favorite candy, I think, which is super boring, but I can

Sarah Wayne Callies: co sign that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No. Yeah, yeah. Or

Paul Adelstein: Baby Ruth. Yeah. Okay. And you, what are yours?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, oh, we're turning this around. Uh, favorite snack. This is something that would change all the time, but like, a nice homemade popcorn with like organic olive oil and sea salt and nutritional yeast and tahini. Oh my god, I made,

Paul Adelstein: I made, wait, don't put tahini, okay.

Paul Adelstein: I made popcorn. Tahini's delicious

Sarah Wayne Callies: on popcorn! No, I made popcorn. It's so good. You know what's

Paul Adelstein: really good is coconut oil for popcorn is great.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You sound like you're so from L. A. I will try that, though. I'll try it tonight, because I love

Paul Adelstein: popcorn. It's super, it's because it's not [00:34:00] sweet, but it does, it just stays moist.

Paul Adelstein: Anyway, I made homemade popcorn the other night. Don't say moist. Love to do, sorry. It's wet. And, um, and, I quit. I, it's hard to not burn popcorn when you make it at home. In a pan. In a pot.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm, mm hmm. We've got one of those spinny ones.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, I don't have

Sarah Wayne Callies: that. From like Cabela's. Yeah, I don't make that. It's called a popcorn maker.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Anyway, um, favorite candy, uh, I mean, yeah, I'm kind of traditional. I'm a big fan of like a, just a nice dark chocolate sea salt. Oh my god, that's not

Paul Adelstein: candy.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, well then Kit Kat?

Paul Adelstein: There you go. Does that count as candy? That's candy.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, actually, you know what? No, my absolute favorite, you know those little red, And black gummy raspberries with all the little thingies on the side and they taste a little bit like You're like your grandmother.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, you get to know me. It's like grandma candy.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's a Werther's original. Yeah, dude. Coffee

Paul Adelstein: nips. Coffee nips.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mother, welcome to my world. Okay. Um, your favorite [00:35:00] singer or band?

Paul Adelstein: My favorite band is the Beatles. Um

Sarah Wayne Callies: Never heard of them.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, they're good. You

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'm going in to go girls. 'cause you know I'm a college lesbian apparently.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, yeah, yeah. I've, I've seen them live a bunch of times. I love them so much. And when I was watching the Barbie movie and they had closer to find in there Oh, amazing. I lost Amazing as a runner too. Qu such, such a good runner. You get such a, like dog whistle to all the old school feminists. Yes. It's like.

Paul Adelstein: Did you, do you have a, um, did you get into all, into your feelings about Joni Mitchell at the, at the Grammys and seeing all that? I mean,

Sarah Wayne Callies: because I live like a retired person, I didn't know that the Grammys were on. Okay. I saw the performance later. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, I mean, she's, oh, God. Yeah, all hail.

Sarah Wayne Callies: She's

Paul Adelstein: astonishing. And a Canadian. And a Canadian.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Also, yeah, I live in Canada, so she's literally on our stands. Um, which TV show slash movie are you most proud of and why?

Paul Adelstein: Um, I'm, uh, I'm gonna go with The Menu, which is a movie I did, like, two years [00:36:00] ago. Oh, I love that one. Because it was such, uh, you know, I had, I missed being in an ensemble.

Paul Adelstein: I love the whole team theater thing, and it really felt, uh, the way that it was shot, and just the nature of the thing was all these people in one room, and I got to work with, So many actors whom I've loved for so long. And it's always fun to kind of feel like, ooh, playing with the, playing with the all stars now.

Paul Adelstein: Can I hang out?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Who was the woman that you had all your

Paul Adelstein: shit at the table with? Yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: Jenna McTeers. Like one of the greatest actors.

Paul Adelstein: One of the great actors, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Astonishing. I saw her live

Paul Adelstein: on stage. Oh, you did?

Sarah Wayne Callies: In 97 playing Hedda Gobbler. Oh yeah. In London. She was one of the best things I've ever seen.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes. She's a genius.

Paul Adelstein: She's a genius. And so I'm very proud of that, of late. And also I love how the movie turned out. I love Mark Milad who directed it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Amazing. Uh, Counselor Dads. Most meaningful thing I've ever done. Also arguably the least successful.

Paul Adelstein: Because of [00:37:00] content, because of experience, because of the work you were asked to do.

Paul Adelstein: Thank you.

Sarah Wayne Callies: All of it. All of it. The, um, Tony and Joan are two of my favorite showrunners ever. They created such a beautiful set. The cast are to this day some of my closest friends. We were telling a story about an eight year old, not about, but including an eight year old trans boy played by an eight year old trans boy that had never been done before.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That meant the world, it just like, so we shot in Savannah, which is also where you shot the menu, right? Yes, it is.

Paul Adelstein: Which is such a great city. I see a pattern, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So good. Um, okay. So, Simone Oman from Finland. I appreciate your patience while we got these questions answered all these years later. If you are out there and listening.

Paul Adelstein: Yes, Simone. And if anyone knows Simone Oman from Finland.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, and by the way, that's O with umlauts, H M A N. And I apologize if that is not how you say your name. I don't speak a word of Finnish. So, uh, if you're listening, let us know, drop us a DM on our [00:38:00] at prison break podcast IG, that's our handle, at prison break podcast.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Or you can email us, um, at pbpodcast at caliber studio. com, we would really love to hear from you.

Paul Adelstein: And that, speaking of Finnish, is us, is the Finnish of our show. Stop. Friends, folks, and fishes. So much alliteration. Thank you for listening. Don't forget, you can subscribe to the Watch Party apps on the Patreon link on our show page, wherever you're listening right now.

Paul Adelstein: This week's calling question, what, in your opinion, is the biggest betrayal in the first season of the show? A lot to pick from. Let us know your thoughts. You can call us. That answer at 401 3. P B R E A K, that's 3 P BREAK.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, thanks for everyone, thanks everyone for listening. Bye. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul is a Calibre Studio production.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Your hosts have been friends without [00:39:00] besties, Sarah Wayne Callies and Paul Edelstein. Our prison warden has been producer Ben Haber. Our head of Jailhouse Rock is Paul Edelstein, Who made the music for this podcast Keeping us Slim and Trim? The Prison Yard has been sound designer and editor. The great Jeff Schmidt keeping us up to date on the outside world is production Assistant Drew Austin.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Our prison artist logo and brand designer is John Zito and Little Big Brands. Check them out at www.littlebigbrands.com. Follow us on Instagram at Prison Break Podcast. Email us at prison breaking@caliberstudio.com and call us at four one three. P B R E A K. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul has been a Calibre Studio production.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Thank you for listening.