Shane Murphy (00:00.782) Ha ha.

Bennett Maxwell (00:01.246) It has to match, but it doesn't.

Bennett Maxwell (00:14.238) I got a cushion on my seat to make it so it's not, I don't sweat. Cause jeans on leather, man, if it's slightly warm in here and now I'm all adjusting my cushions first day I'm using it. So, all right, I think we're good to go. Shane, welcome. No, I don't even know how to do that. I'm like, I usually kind of do an intro cause I usually say welcome to another episode, but I don't really say that anymore. What do I say? I'll say what I normally say and then we'll edit it.

Welcome to another episode of the Deeper the Dough podcast. I am super stoked to have Shane Murphy from Boosley as a guest today. Shane, welcome to the show.

Shane Murphy (00:52.59) Yeah, thanks for having me. Super excited to have the conversation today.

Bennett Maxwell (00:56.382) Shane, your background looks like a wallpaper. Those clouds are perfect. It's a great day. So Shane, if we could start out with a few minutes of your background, maybe a little bit of your upbringing and how you are doing what you're doing today at Boosley.

Shane Murphy (01:01.966) You know, Utah at its finest, for sure.

Shane Murphy (01:16.014) Yeah, happy to. So, I guess first of all, I grew up in Southwest Michigan. So, came up through Michigan, you know, growing up had, you know, lived in, gosh, where do I even begin here? I'm used to talking about my business, my business and everything there. So, yeah, I grew up in Michigan and, you know,

Family background, I'm one of three kids. I'm the youngest, grew up doing a lot of sports. I did highly competitive soccer, I wrestled. My family situation growing up, we were like super, super poor and we learned really early. We had to work hard and I learned that I wanted to have a different lifestyle for my family and my kids later on in life. So I hustled hard, I worked.

early, I figured out how to go out and sell and make money. I started a business in the middle of high school that my freshman year in college was gross and a hundred thousand dollars a year. I wasn't gross in that, but the business was. And for me, I thought I was on cloud nine and that was amazing. And after that, I went to do a two year mission for my church and

came home and I had started college as a music major. So I was a jazz studies and trombone performance major, decided I wasn't gonna continue on doing music. I was always good at the, better at the business side of music than the actual music side. And ended up moving out to Utah, getting into tech sales and healthcare sales. And eventually started getting really good at that.

went to run sales for a company called Jolt, which is a restaurant operation software company and helped to scale that and then started my own company and launched Boostly back towards the end of 2017. And we've been doing that ever since.

Bennett Maxwell (03:29.438) Awesome. And you have some kids, don't you?

Shane Murphy (03:32.27) Yeah, so I have three kids. I have a nine -year -old, a seven -year -old, and then a seven -month -old. So we had a little gap there, and three boys.

Bennett Maxwell (03:40.03) Okay, awesome. And the reason I'm asking, I also grew up doing all of the different sports and I felt like they were amazing. But I also felt like, I mean, as far as like what I learned from them, you learn team building and football or baseball or soccer or whatever. And then, but like wrestling is all you and learning how to move your body. And I felt like that was the most helpful one for me. But I do feel like I got way too...

because I had to be the best in everything. So now I'm looking at my kids, they're young, they're in dance and they're in competition and this and that and they're already like getting nervous at seven years old. And it's like, how do you, I want them to make friends and to learn skills and be confident in themselves and moving their body, but I don't want them to be obsessive with goal seeking and achieving like I have been. Have you thought about that at all? Do you have any recommendations for really for me, but also the listeners on how do you.

Shane Murphy (04:35.726) Thank you.

Bennett Maxwell (04:36.798) get your kids into sports and without teaching them it's all about the destination rather than the journey.

Shane Murphy (04:43.918) Yeah, I think I've been having to grow in this area myself recently because I'm a highly competitive person. And when my kids are competitive, I get an adrenaline rush and it's exciting for me to see them win and succeed. And it's heartbreaking when they don't. And I've seen that in a couple of different experiences. So both my older two boys, they do soccer and

My oldest, two years ago, he was doing soccer and he was just feeling really down on himself. He felt like I'm not very good at soccer and he would like go out on the field and just sit down. And he just looked so deflated. And it was heartbreaking as a parent to see like, man, he's reached this moment where he's seeing other kids and their skill levels and he's comparing himself to that and feeling.

bad and withdrawing. And that was a moment of realization for me where I was like, I want something different for my kid and I don't want him to feel this pressure from me. And turns out what one thing that he was really interested in at the time was Irish dance. And I never pictured that my son would do dance in any form. It just seemed foreign, but he was interested in that. And so we're like, hey, sure that let's follow what your desires are and

A lot of this is about making friends. And so let's go go and do that. And he had a blast doing it. And then later on, like a couple of years later, he got back into soccer. He does really well in soccer now, but he doesn't have this like feeling where he's down on himself. And part of that was, I think, just like being consistent through it all and

loving and being like, hey dude, you worked hard out there. Like, I'm proud of you. And hey, it's okay if that isn't your thing. Like, we'll find something that is your thing. And you can be proud of yourself in whatever you do and find the things that you're interested in. And let's focus on that. And he's very different from my second kid who's... Yeah, that's a nine year old.

Bennett Maxwell (07:01.342) And so he's the, this is the nine year old, right? And real quick, just for a timeline, when did he start Irish dancing? At what age?

Shane Murphy (07:09.582) So he did Irish dancing probably at like seven. He probably did that for like 18 months and then he switched out of it and he started doing basketball and he's like, I'm really good at basketball. I like basketball. And then he's like, maybe I'll try soccer again. And he did soccer and I just finished up coaching his team this year. And it was so fun because I got to see him grow and we had bonding time together and -

It was special, like him and me practicing and talking about stuff. And I think he enjoyed more than anything the like connection that we got more than maybe the sport itself.

Bennett Maxwell (07:53.79) I think that's how it should be because it's like, well, what is the point of a sport? It's literally just for personal growth and for fun, right? To develop a skill. But I don't feel like anybody told me that when I was younger. The point of every sport was to win. Like it was just winning and winning's fun. And like that doesn't need to be taught like go for the win, but detach yourself from that outcome.

Shane Murphy (08:01.486) Yes.

Bennett Maxwell (08:18.27) Seven years old and Irish dancing, that's a young age and Irish dancing is not something typically that's, hey dad, I wanna do this because my friends are doing it. What was the environment like when he even brought that up? Because that's really cool that he did bring that up at such a young age and such a foreign idea.

Shane Murphy (08:30.318) yeah.

Shane Murphy (08:35.502) Yeah, so there's kind of two, there's a long story behind all of this. And so I'll share snippets, but I probably have an unreasonable obsession with Irish culture, Irish heritage, like my Irish ancestry. And I'm really, like, I'm really into that side of my identity. And as an extension of that, my kids have grown up very attached to their, like, Irish ancestry and their Irish identity.

And my wife called me one day and she's like, hey, I was talking to Matthew and he's always loved dancing. Like he's the type of kid where music is on and he's just like, he doesn't care like what people think. He's just moving and he loves it and he feels it. And Casman was like, hey Matthew, would you be interested in dancing? And he's like, yeah, I would. And so then...

He said something about Ireland and she's like, there's an Irish dance school that so -and -so in our neighborhood is doing. Would you want to check that out? And he's like, mom, I'd love that. And so my wife calls me up one day and she's like, hey, I want to tell you something. I signed up Matthew for dance today. And I was like, well, you know what? Okay, like tell me more. And she's like, but I signed him up for Irish dance. And.

Bennett Maxwell (10:00.318) So you'll like it.

Shane Murphy (10:01.582) She's like, what do you think about that? I'm like, I'm all in. Like, this is great. And honestly, Matthew will probably love it and super enjoy it. But I had to like get rid of stigmas in my own mind of like boys doing dance. And as I was thinking through it, I was like, this shouldn't matter. Like these stigmas do not matter. And the most important thing is that my son is interested in this.

And I'm going to give him as much love and support in that as possible. And if he's interested, I'm going to help feed it. And yeah.

Bennett Maxwell (10:37.502) Yeah, I mean going back, if I interpreted the answer, you pay attention to your kid and you ask him the questions rather than just like, you're going to, like, I remember my brother, not that this really matters, but maybe it does, later came out as gay and he's the one who didn't want to play football. And my mom's like, you aren't going to school unless you sign up for football. Like it was like, you have to do football. And she did that. And I'm just like.

Where do we get that from? Why it's like you have to do this rather than like do what you like. And the dancing, my kids love dancing. I mean, the girls are in dance, but even my three year old is always dancing. And I'm like, I was never confident in music or dancing, but it doesn't matter if you have skill or not. It's just about the confidence. If they will dance in front of other people when music's playing, that's a really good confidence builder. Encouraging them and then...

For me to encourage them, I also have to be a weirdo and dance now too. But I do think that that's such a big benefit in a child's development. I'm just like, who cares? Like stop worrying about what I like, just do what makes you feel good. So anyways, applaud, pat yourself on the back. Like a lot of times we don't even discover our kids wants because we're not paying attention. And if we are, maybe we're not asking them nor encouraging them. So kudos on that. That's really cool.

working hard. That was the only thing. And I know I'm staying on the kids topic, but that's something that I'm very interested in. Because I grew up the same way. I felt like all my skill set came from selling shaved ice and lemonade and lawn aeration and cut code knives and door -to -door sales. And I did all of that, excluding the door -to -door sales, to pay for school or to pay for sport programs and whatever. And I learned a ton about that. And then now it's like, okay, well,

My kids aren't, they don't need to do that. So how do you teach them the hard work, especially the communication skills, which I think is very big, without them having the quote unquote necessity to go out there and do those things?

Shane Murphy (12:49.966) Yeah, so it's interesting because my kids are two very, they're very different. My oldest is a saver and he just loves seeing that I have $100 in my piggy bank and I know exactly how much I have and man, I want that to be 120. And he's a big saver. My seven year old is a spender. And so for him, he's motivated to get money to like buy things. And.

We had this experience like most parents do where we're going through the grocery store and our kids are in the cart and they're saying, mom, I want this, can you buy me this, can you buy me this? And we'd always be like, no, no, no. And then you get worn down. And we started this chant where it was, I can work hard to make money to buy toys. And we had this,

adorable video of like our three -year -old he was three at the time now seven his name is Jonah and he was like in this shopping cart and my wife had like reiterated this chant and Jonah came up and he like pointed something he's like mom I work hard make money buy toys and he's just like motivated to make money so that he can buy toys and four years later we keep reiterating that mantra that hey you can work really hard

and make money and buy that. And so instead of us buying a lot of fun things for them, like my seven year old, he's always asking like, dad, I want a dirt bike or dad, I want a new X, Y or Z. Can you buy me a skateboard? And I'm like, dude, I bet. I bet you can. How much is that? I bet you can. I bet you can make that. And then we go through processes of, well, that's a lot of money. How are you going to make that?

because I'm not buying it for you, but you can, how are you gonna do that? And then like coaching them through, well, let's, you wanna do a lemonade stand? Let's try a lemonade stand. And like, we had this experience last 4th of July, where the boys are like, hey, we wanna make $100. We're like, okay, you guys can totally do that. Let's brainstorm some ways.

Shane Murphy (15:16.494) And my wife ran, used to run like a face painting company and she had a bunch of like glitter tattoos. And she's like, hey, I will sell you these glitter tattoos. This is the cost of them. So you're learning about the cost of goods and you go and drum up people and drive traffic and sell them. And if you help us do glitter tattoos,

You can keep the money and split it between the two of you and you just have to pay me for the actual product. And this was a really cool experience where my boys went out on the 4th of July morning, they printed up flyers, they made signs, and they went to the neighborhood next to where our house is at. And my boys were on their bikes and they were planning to just knock on every door and give them this flyer and say, hey, we're doing...

glitter tattoos at 10 o 'clock. And my oldest, he started knocking on doors and handing out these flyers. My seven year old saw a couple like kids playing and he's like, hey, do you guys want to help us advertise? And he didn't knock on a single door, but he had three kids from this neighborhood that were friends of his passing out like flyers and just blitzed this neighborhood. And they made well over a hundred bucks.

And my seven -year -old, he learned this other lesson that afterwards we did a little like retrospective of, hey, how did this go? What went well? What could we have done differently? And what did we learn? And one of the takeaways was you can actually get other people to help you do work. And I think he paid like each of them like a buck or two, but the kids would have done it for free of hounding the pavement. They thought it was fun.

And it's like, you guys had a blast doing that. You also made money and you had to buy the product. So there was this like cost of goods sold lesson that was learning, but they learned that I can go out and make money. And so part of this is us as parents tempering our willingness to go buy things and like encourage them to go work hard and to make money. And if...

Shane Murphy (17:40.27) someone, if they're both like working hard on the lawn or something and one person doesn't finish or do the job, guess what? The other person gets paid and the other doesn't. And that's fair. And we have to talk through that. And sometimes it isn't fair, but that happens. And so there are so many natural learning opportunities if we just seek after being intentional in teaching those lessons to our kids. Because I...

I fully hope that my kids don't learn the lessons for the same reasons that I learned them. That like you're forced through experience or life challenges to go through experiences that force these lessons upon you. I want them to have a totally different life than what I had. But at the same time, I want the lessons to be learned.

Bennett Maxwell (18:29.374) Yeah. And I mean, it's.

because you can have those lessons and it's based on, I'm learning it because I'm curious and because curiosity is good and because I'm learning things and these are our life skills and it's empowering. I do want to come back to all of that, but I want to shift a little bit because you said that you were playing instruments and then you went to cells. That's a pretty big change there, right? I am a huge proponent of like door -to -door cells. It was like the best thing for me in...

building a skill set. I mean, you can make a lot of money as well, but way more important is that skill set of communication, grabbing somebody's attention, asking the right questions. And I love that you're already doing this with your kids, and I try to do a lot of these similar things with my kids regularly. But going to adults, how important was that step for you to say, I'm going to be a salesperson? And now you're an entrepreneur, which is still a salesperson. But talk to me about the importance of that.

Shane Murphy (19:31.854) Yeah, so my journey was interesting. So if we just go back to when I was in high school, I was starting to go all in on music. I played the trombone. It was like my passion, my love, and it was my outlet in life. And I remember I was in probably seventh or eighth grade, and my friends and I, we started this like small jazz band, I think for a talent show.

and we were practicing and stuff, and one of the kids' moms was having a birthday, and her boyfriend said, hey, I'll hire you kids to play for 30 minutes at this party, and I'll pay each of you 50 bucks. And that was this light bulb moment where it's like, I can make money with music. This is kinda cool. We did that, we got 50 bucks, and I was hooked.

I was like, that was the easiest 50 bucks I ever made and how do I do this again? And I loved having this band. And so we started this band in high school and I started like really seriously trying to find performing opportunities. And what happened is I started booking our band and probably like my sophomore year in high school, we like started doing like gigs every week.

And I started building this network and what I would do is I would go to downtown Kalamazoo, Michigan. I'd go from these different businesses in this overgrown suit and I'm this pimply teenager. I'd walk in and I'd say, hey, I have this jazz band and we perform for company parties. Do you guys have an upcoming company party where you could use a jazz band? And...

Probably because of my age, people had pity on us and like booked us. And I saw this as a chance where at first it was like, okay, great. They're gonna pay us $300. Like I'm gonna split that between the four of us. And then the next place I'd be like, okay, could we do $400? And then I'd split, I'd pay everyone like the $300 that they were expecting. And I kept the margin. And then I...

Bennett Maxwell (21:55.422) Yep.

Shane Murphy (21:56.942) I started doing this and probably like my sophomore, junior, and high school, we started booking more gigs than I like double booked our band for the first time.

Bennett Maxwell (22:06.782) So now you're a manager of bands. Are you finding other people to replace? You know, and like you go to that gig.

Shane Murphy (22:14.542) Yeah, and it was like, it was on accident. Like, I was talking to these people, they reached out at the same time and said, hey, I can do it this date and I can do it this date at this time. And I was like, darn, I'm gonna have to say no to one of them. But instead of saying no, I went to the local college, Western Michigan University, they had an incredible jazz program. I said, hey, any of you guys want a gig? And they're like, yeah. And so I paid each of them like 100 bucks. I made like 200 bucks on the gig.

And then I was like, I can do this more. And so I, it was a hustle fest. Every gig that I had, I would go out into the audience and I would try to find one more gig and work with somebody. And.

Bennett Maxwell (22:54.782) Yeah. Do you feel like you already prepped though at that point? Like most college kids, or not college kids, high school kids, they're not going to go do that. You know, what led, was that kind of, well I've already sold shaved ice on the corner or lemonade or whatever, like I'm confident in my ability to sell. Did you already have that or do you feel like that was when you learned it?

Shane Murphy (23:13.198) I mean, I was always hungry for money. I would do anything for money. So like, and even like stupid things. Like I would go and I would, I had this lunch money little business where you didn't have money for your lunch in middle school. Yeah, here's two bucks. You pay me four bucks tomorrow. And probably like the most embarrassing story of my life is,

Bennett Maxwell (23:31.998) You're a lone shark in school. Love it. I'm just joking.

Shane Murphy (23:41.742) I would say, and every day you don't pay me at doubles, like loan sharking at the max and like high interest rates. I didn't know what I was doing. It was just like, yeah, every day you don't pay me at doubles and I'll give you $2 today. Give me $4. Yeah. And, and there was this moment when my friend who was actually like the drummer in my band later, he was literally a close friend of mine. I was like, dude, you owe me like 50, like 50 bucks and

Bennett Maxwell (23:46.334) Love it.

Bennett Maxwell (23:51.614) 3000 % interest rates, yeah, 100 % a day.

Shane Murphy (24:11.566) His mom worked at the school and I went to his mom and I told her like, hey, your, your son owes me 50 bucks. Here's what happened. And I think to like teach him a lesson, she made him pay me 20. And I was like, in hindsight, all I cared about was the money. Like that wasn't a thing that a friend should do, but I was.

Bennett Maxwell (24:32.83) But you have the mindset of like, I'm going for it. Was it, and I felt like I was the same way. I was knocking businesses to sell banners, whatever. And nobody else on my football team even tried. I don't feel like, but I kind of had to. And it was, well, I need to, cause I want to go to football camp. I don't have the money and I do like money. I'm driven by that. I still have a social anxiety, but this one just outweighed it. So like, because I hear the, well, I'm not a natural sales person. And to my response is like,

I don't know if anybody just is born, like I will go knock doors. I think you're born and maybe there's a bell curve. Like a three -year -old doesn't really, at some age, they're not really shy, right? They'll do anything. They don't really know people are paying attention. And then they start being self -aware that they're self -aware. And then now you have to get over that hump. So can you target whatever age that is, two to six years old when they don't really care, throw them into firing doors.

We did Christmas caroling and I asked my seven -year -old if she would go do it by herself. Knock on the door and sing a whole song by herself because I'm like the skill that you're learning and she did it. Anyways, love to hear that like was it natural for you or did you have to get over that and what's your response to somebody like I can't do sales because I'm not a natural salesperson.

Shane Murphy (25:38.222) Yeah. Cool.

Shane Murphy (25:50.094) It was very unnatural for me. Extremely unnatural. And you'll laugh at this. You can't really tell now, but when I was a kid, I had a really bad lisp and a stutter. And being in front of people or talking to people really scared me. And I remember like talking on the phone was the scariest thing. And...

what I had to do, I would write out these scripts. And it would be like a full on script with paths of things to say if they said one thing or another that I would follow because I would be so scared and nervous, especially when I was booking these gigs of what do I say? And my lisp is hard to understand. My stutter is a messy thing to deal with. And so it was very unnatural.

but I relied a lot on scripts that I would write down and then I would start just playing with it and trying to figure it out. Every time I would pick up the phone, I was scared. But my mentality was once I either dial a number and it's ringing or once I hit accept this call, and I mean, this is started back in the day when we didn't really have cell phones. Cell phones were brand new. So you'd pick up the phone. But the moment that...

it was a live call, I didn't have a choice but to finish the call. And so a lot of my life has been using like that principle, my back's against a wall, I have to finish this or I have to do something. And you learn a lot through that. You mess up a lot, but you learn so much. And that's kind of been the story of like my entire career was put my back against a wall, force myself,

to overcome the fears that I had and lean into it and learn through that because it's not natural, but sales is something that can absolutely be learned and you can always grow in sales skills. And so I never realized that what I was doing was sales or entrepreneurship. I went on a mission for my church and my mission president, he was a career salesperson.

Shane Murphy (28:18.318) And I remember telling him, hey, before doing this, I was a trombone and jazz studies performance major. But I'm feeling like I shouldn't go home and do music. I don't know what else I'd do. And he like had me think about it. And I came back and was like, man, I think I could, I think I could do sales and I could get into that. And so after coming home from being a missionary, I ended up moving out to Utah and I got a job as like a cold collar.

for a radiology technology company.

Bennett Maxwell (28:52.062) Jump into medical cells. I've heard the money is great if you do it good.

Shane Murphy (28:56.398) Yeah, and for a while I was like traveling to these different areas and realized I really just want to, I want to do like inside sales. I don't want to travel a lot. I'm this single guy. I'm never going to settle down and have a family if I'm traveling all the time. This isn't the type of job for me. And so I ended up finding this super early stage startup and I started like working there for free because the CEO like and founder,

didn't wanna hire somebody part -time, but they weren't gonna pay me enough to like offset my income for this other place. So I convinced him to take a shot on me and I'd work 30 hours a week at that startup, like 40 hours a week at this other like normal day job. And then eventually I went all in on that startup and it was a mix. It was like a FinTech healthcare software company. And I got really good at selling SaaS.

and selling to small businesses. And then, you know, learned a ton through that experience and eventually went on to lead sales teams and eventually start a company. But all of it is learnable. Any skill can be learned.

Bennett Maxwell (30:12.542) I think if you phrase cells to communication, a professional salesperson is a professional communicator, you know, body language and everything. And then everyone's like, yeah, I would, I would love to be, learn the skills of a professional communicator, but cells, I don't, I don't know, but it's like, is there a human interaction that a cell is not taking place? Right? I mean, this interaction, I'm, it's always here's my idea. Do you accept it or not? And that's, that's all we're trying to do. If it's not a product, it's always an idea. And you're trying to.

Shane Murphy (30:19.534) Certainly.

Bennett Maxwell (30:42.334) get people to agree with your idea or get their feedback and change your ideas. But I mean, every interaction is a, here's two pieces of information, what are you gonna accept? And I want you to accept my view of life. And that sells, that's communication, wherever you wanna call it. Most of my focus, coming back to the kids is like, that's what I see as my potential biggest impact is like, well, my kids, can I raise them that they're competitive, but they don't care about the freaking,

Trophy and they don't care about the goal that everything is effort -based rewarding you tried hard Yesterday both my daughters had their auditions five and seven and the seven -year -old sir I'm so nervous and this and that and then I'm like don't worry. You'll do great and I'm like, I don't know if you'll do great Don't worry. You'll have fun and you'll learn and then I rephrased it and as long as you try her like literally that's all there is and she's like, okay, you know and and goes and And does that so the the money aspect to give a few?

Piece of actual advice, this is why I do, and I'd love to hear if you want to get a little bit more granular to it, but it's $10 a minute. Every time they go to the store, and we go to Walmart every day, because it's just right here and we walk there, and every day they ask me for a thousand things, and every day I say yes to all of them. You just have to buy it. And it's just totally different, you know, it's like, you're no longer, no, because of this, it's yes, yes, yes, let's go figure it out together. And I think that empowering, and then it's very easily defined, $1 for 10 minutes, you could buy whatever you want, whenever you want.

here's the structure. And then the other thing I wanted to point out, when you said that you separated your kids' jobs. And if you don't separate it, I feel like it's a mess. Hey, three kids, go clean the playroom. this person's not cleaning, this person's, okay, hey, three kids, you clean the art place, you do all the toys, you get all the garbage. Whenever you're done, you're done. And then it's like, okay, I'm no longer going to just come into your room every five minutes to tell you that the other kids aren't working. So any other actionable steps that, if people are listening and they want to follow,

you know, a guideline on how to implement with their kids, what would you tell them?

Shane Murphy (32:48.014) I mean, there's a book that I think is fantastic on this topic. It's by Dave Ramsey and his daughter. It's called Smart Money, Smart Kids. And like, I want to follow all the principles in that book. It's so good about teaching your kids to like work, make money, how to use money, how to invest money. And it's a lot of these types of principles. And it's like an amazing just...

playbook to use.

Bennett Maxwell (33:19.806) And repeat the name of that one more time.

Shane Murphy (33:21.902) Smart Money Smart Kids.

Bennett Maxwell (33:24.382) Okay, man, I mean, going back to what I think is causing the mental health crisis, especially with kids, is at least the guy that I follow, Jonathan Haidt, psychologist, it's all about helicopter parenting. We're still scared that there's kidnappings in the 80s. I'm talking to chatGTB and say, okay, given my neighborhood, taking out kidnappings from family members, like divorced parents, one steals the other one, taking that out, how many years?

what I have to live in Utah given the current population in Pleasant Grove for me to experience a kidnapping. 26 ,000. 26 ,000 freaking years, but yet kids don't let their, but we don't let our kids walk to the park. I mean, I've done it forever because I've been on this train of like empowering kids. They can solve problems themselves. They could go on bike rides themselves. They could go to the park by themselves right here. And oddly enough, Utah and I think it's Oklahoma are the only ones with free range laws that.

you can't get in trouble as a parent for sending your kids to the park unattended. The rest of the free kids country, it's illegal. So anyways, what I'm getting back to is it's about teaching the skills and the skill of communicating is really good, but I think it's more about teaching empowerment, confidence, and raising effort rather than what did I achieve?

Shane Murphy (34:45.774) Love that.

Bennett Maxwell (34:46.91) That's at least what I think. So I'm like, everything that I do, I'm trying to do that. And you also brought up retrospection, like, okay, here's the marketing strategy we did. How did it work on all of that? I read that having meaningless conversations with the cash register shows much greater degrees of happiness. Even if it's how was your day, you don't remember the conversation, it doesn't matter.

Shane Murphy (34:48.622) Yeah, I think that's great.

Bennett Maxwell (35:13.662) So I teach all three of my kids to do that. And even my three -year -old will, you know, how's your day going? And then I think the key though is the retrospective because always after it's, did you see how they lit up? Did you see that? And you tell your kids to do this compliment the register. How's your day going? How's work going? They always have candy. If a kid talks to them, they pull out freaking candy and then they get candy. And then drawing that connection I think is a, is super important. jumping back into the live transition.

music industry, degree, all of that, and then you got advice from someone else to go try sales. How would you speak to somebody else that is still figuring that out? Like, I have a career path, or I'm doing construction, or whatever, I'm not in love with it, how do I figure out what my passion is?

Shane Murphy (36:03.758) That is a good question. And I might have a contrarian thought on this because I think it all starts with what is your goal and like, what are you wanting from like your career or that experience? And some people, they just want to like really be connected and fulfilled in their job. And some people,

want to make a lot of money and that's a higher priority. You don't have to do something that you're extremely passionate about for your career. And you can have a great career and still a fulfilling career with something that you're not like super passionate about. And people don't say that often, but I really believe that it's true. And I believe that you can love your job.

even without a high degree of passion.

If you find that Mecca of I'm super passionate and I can make money in it and like that's that is the Mecca and that's where if you can find that gosh do that but sometimes at different stages in your career you're prioritizing different things early on you might be prioritizing learning over income and you have a dream to someday like start your own business or to be a vice president somewhere and

The question is, well, what are the skills that I need to develop in order to become what I want in the future? And maybe the place that I can learn the most and develop those skills the most is not where I can make the most money or not in the industry that I'm most passionate about or excited about. And especially when you're early in your career, you have less risk. Like you can risk like,

Shane Murphy (38:07.662) having something not work out at the expense of getting a lot of learning or to make less money, but learn so much and it propels you forward. And my advice would be really first be very clear on what your goals are and your objectives and what you want down the line. And then ask yourself, what are the things that I need to develop to become what I want in the future? And focus on that.

more than just the passion and more than the income, focus on the learning and the growth and the development. And what you find is, as you grow and as you do hard things or go a little bit outside of your comfort zone, there's an immense amount of fulfillment and joy and happiness that comes. We don't actually maximize our fulfillment and our joy by not stretching ourselves.

Like there's so much satisfaction from looking back and seeing, man, I did something that I didn't think I could do a year ago, and I'm proud of myself. And that joy and fulfillment leads to passion. And all of a sudden you start finding new things that you're passionate about. An example for me is initially when I was doing sales, I thought I want to do something that helps people.

And so that led me to doing healthcare sales because I felt like the product that I was doing could help somebody. And that was awesome. And I realized I wasn't learning a ton when I was doing it though. So I joined this like super early stage startup that had like a, still a connection to healthcare. But I knew I could learn a ton really fast.

And that experience changed my life. And then after that, it was like, okay, now I'm running sales for a restaurant operations software company. Like I'm not passionate about, I'm not passionate about restaurants. I've been selling to healthcare for years and I'm not like passionate about restaurant technology, but there was this opportunity for me to learn and grow because I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur. And I knew I knew how to sell.

Shane Murphy (40:28.782) I knew how to lead salespeople to a degree, but I didn't know how to scale a business. I got to see it at one company, but I wanted to see if I could do that without the training wheels of my mentors at the last business. And that led me down this path that all of a sudden I became very passionate about restaurants. I got very passionate about business building and building sales teams and scaling a company and the strategy.

And I never knew that, that's what I wanted to be. It was, I was passionate about sales. I was interested in making money and focused on learning. And now I'm extremely fulfilled in the career that I'm in. My passions may change.

Bennett Maxwell (41:14.974) I think a lot of it is. Yes. Well, and it's a lot of times you're doing what you're passionate about without being passionate about it. And this came from an interview that I just did as well. And he's like, I was actually, I did like construction. And I brought that example because that's so fresh in my head because I like seeing a kitchen transform, you know, but he's like, I didn't know it and I didn't really appreciate it. And I feel like I've, I do whatever I'm going to do for money. And then I find the passion and build it in. And I think you can.

always do that. I mean, your example is, you know, I'm not passionate about selling the software or whatever it is, but you are passionate about learning, right? You just hit on that a ton. That's what I did as well. Like when I did pest control, I was like, I don't give a damn about pest control. And then, but I'm like, but I have to be passionate about it. Well, okay, I'm learning to be the best salesperson. And then I also thought of, okay, well, every time I sell a job, then somebody else has to come in a truck.

that was purchased from another company with gasoline that's purchased from another company with an employee that is on payroll now because of this with product that was purchased from another company. It's like I'm providing a lot of jobs and then that's what I fed off of. Then I switched over to satellite and I've never, I didn't watch cable TV or satellite TV growing up. I don't give a damn, but I'm saving people money and I wouldn't sell a deal unless I saved people a lot of money. And then I did alarms. I don't believe in alarm systems. I grew up in Utah. I still don't keep my freaking door locked half the time. You know, it's like,

So I adapted, I didn't sell alarms. I sold people who had an ADT sign on their yard. They believe in alarm systems and they're already paying 50 bucks. I just said, hey, let's upgrade your system to a smart home system. You know, so it's like, and even with dirty dough, I've been able to do that. So I do think the, there is a facade, find what you love and then make a business out of it. Well, that's sometimes impossible or not feasible. Do what you love and find your passion.

you know, and find your passion out of that. And I think for you, it just took realizing, well, I am passionate about learning, right? So let me just gravitate towards that and love that, which by the way, I'm a big fan. Robert Kiyosaki, work to learn, not to earn. He puts in your twenties, I think you could say kind of for the rest of your life.

Shane Murphy (43:31.374) Yeah, and you know, it's interesting because my... There are things about the company that I started that I'm absolutely passionate about and I love. I love selling a product that makes other people money more than just something that saves them money or makes them more efficient. I love that type of thing where I know we're providing something that makes our customers money. But the most fulfilling part of...

being a founder is providing jobs for other people and providing opportunities for them to grow and learn and develop at such a fast pace that it impacts their career and their life forevermore. I love that about what I do and that I get to impact so many people that are early in their careers and help them to learn and grow because...

I'm hiring the type of people who have that interest and that type of passion. And that makes building a company super fulfilling along the way, more than just money.

Bennett Maxwell (44:41.094) Yeah. Yeah. And I think, again, it's take, take whatever you're doing, put that aside. And I'm just thinking out loud, other than this conversation, then figure out your passion, figure out as many passions as you have, you know, and most people have a lot of the same path. Pretty much everyone is like, I'm passionate about seeing progress, especially in myself or other people. Okay. Tell me a job that you're doing right now that there's not progress daily. If you, if you're paying half attention to what you're doing, you know, tell me a job.

that you can't show how you're helping others. Like, we're already doing things we're passionate about, but maybe we don't even know what we're passionate about, so then we can't directly relate it to that. Anyways, just a thought. You spoke about money, like being driven by money. And again, you could challenge me on this, because I'm just making stuff up on the spot. I think a goal on money is superficial and lazy, because what is it that money gets us? And it's like, well, money will get me whatever I want, and I don't have to think about.

You know, because if I have money, I have free time and then who cares, I just do whatever I want. But it's like, well, no, what's the emotion you want to achieve? And then in order to achieve that emotion, what do you have to have financially? And then I love what you threw in there. And then what are the skill sets that I need to be able to get those financial goals? But I do think it needs to be based on a, I want to live in this emotional state. Love to hear your feedback on either of the two thoughts.

Shane Murphy (46:05.806) Yeah, I haven't necessarily thought about it from like an emotional state perspective other than I see money as a means to freedom. Like from the and not necessarily like.

Bennett Maxwell (46:20.318) So just a little bit beefier. What do you feel with freedom? That's all it is. It's money and then it's how is it going to make me feel and there's nothing that we do, I think, that isn't based on, everything we do is based on an emotion. I want to feel a certain way, but yet our goals typically don't align with the number one driver of human nature, which is kind of crazy to me.

Shane Murphy (46:24.558) Yeah.

Shane Murphy (46:43.694) Yeah, which I think makes a lot of sense. Like I have goals of things that I want to do with my time. And it's, if I do break it down, I want to do those things because of the feelings that come from them. Like I feel like I'm serving, I'm lifting others, I'm like my relationship with God and my family are prioritized and I feel good because of that. And those are literally the motivators for why...

I've always wanted money and I've wanted to provide a different experience for my kids than what I had growing up because I want my kids to feel different than what I felt growing up. And so yeah, I can see that for sure.

Bennett Maxwell (47:28.478) And I think without making that connection though, a lot of times it's like, well, money will solve my issues. And it's like, newsflash, well.

Shane Murphy (47:34.67) No, it can actually just make your problems worse.

Bennett Maxwell (47:38.014) Like, really, I want to teach my kids empowerment and confidence because that makes me feel successful as a father. Like, that's what it is. So do I need money and free time to go travel the world and take them to every different country to experience different cultures in order to achieve that goal? That would be cool, but absolutely I don't. But if my goal was, well, I want to give my kids experiences, then it's like, well, now I have to have money to go give them experiences, those types of experiences. But if I narrow it down to, no, I just want my kids to be...

confident, happy X, Y, Z, there's a million ways and you don't need all the money or the time or whatever. Like, and that's why I think it's pretty important. But anyways, Shane, you've been freaking awesome. I have gone way over. So thank you for entertaining me and answering all those questions. And it's just super cool to see a dad, an entrepreneur and the kids growing up in that environment, learning those skills that you learned, but under different.

Shane Murphy (48:27.278) It's been a blast. Yeah.

Bennett Maxwell (48:35.774) set of circumstances, absolutely beautiful. So Shane, thank you so much. What's the best way that our listeners could connect with you?

Shane Murphy (48:43.438) Yeah, LinkedIn is probably the best place to connect with me. I'm not super active on any other social platforms, so LinkedIn is the best way to find me. Shane with Boostly.

Bennett Maxwell (48:54.238) Hey, Shane, thank you so much for jumping on.

Shane Murphy (48:59.694) Yeah, thanks for having me. It was a blast.

Bennett Maxwell (49:00.958) I almost pressed A.