PB-E18 DISCUSS 062424 ===

Paul Adelstein: [00:00:00] Okay, welcome back, everyone, to another episode of Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul. I'm Paul.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I'm Sarah. And today's episode is Bluff, number 18. Um, it features a card game, some vomit, um, the wonderful line, good luck with the jerky, and some characters named Jesus and Red Bull. Uh, a meaningful ashtray, a very delightful comeuppance,

Paul Adelstein: and a very small fender bender where, you know, people are going to exchange insurance information.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, just sort of walk away.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, it's just a small desktop.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Do these things happen?

Paul Adelstein: Uh, right after that bell cue sound, they tend to happen.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Bong,

Paul Adelstein: bong. It's lower. We also have a very special guest today who does some really beautiful work. In this [00:01:00] episode, and whose work all season is such a big part of why we care about Lincoln and the Burroughs clan.

Paul Adelstein: And kind of the expanding Prison Break family universe at this

Sarah Wayne Callies: point. That's absolutely right. Yeah. Marshall Allman is with us, you guys. Um, and we're really, really excited, uh, to talk to him. So we'll get to the index so that we can get to Marshall.

Paul Adelstein: Okay. Today's Calistine Index. Bluff was written by Karen Usher and Nick Santora.

Paul Adelstein: It was directed by Jace Alexander and first aired on April 17th, 2006, 8. 18 million people tuned in to watch at 8 p. m. Competition in the time slot included a rerun of Wife Swap on NBC, a rerun of King of Queens on CBS, and a brand new Deal or No Deal on NBC.

Sarah Wayne Callies: The TVGuide. com recap reads, in the psych ward, uh, Michael must keep Haywire off his meds so he'll be able to replace the missing part of Michael's tattoo.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Elsewhere, C Bag and, nope, sorry, yeah, C Bag. That's their, that's their

Paul Adelstein: relationship. Yeah, yeah. C Bag and T Note.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Exactly. T Bag and [00:02:00] C

Paul Adelstein: Note. Yeah, that's their, that's their ship. That's their ship. That's their

Sarah Wayne Callies: ship name, um, for the ship that never sailed. They team up uneasily to raise money to keep Michael and Sucre's cell in friendly hands.

Sarah Wayne Callies: LJ is charged with killing his mother and stepfather as well as attempting to kill Kellerman. And Kellerman is told by Brinker to lay off Link, which displeases the vice president. And then Nick runs into a man in a trench coat, and he's not happy about it. Another recap that tells you nothing.

Paul Adelstein: Topping the box office the week of April 17th, 2006, was Scary Movie 4, featuring cameos by Shaq, Dr.

Paul Adelstein: Phil, and the ubiquitous, at this point, Charlie Sheen. Carmen Electris would win the dubious Golden Raspberry Award for her work in that film. On April 18th, Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes welcomed their daughter, Suri. Into the world, not to be confused with Siri, who we all carry around in our pockets now.

Paul Adelstein: And on April 13th, Barry Bonds was in some [00:03:00] trouble for perjury when federal prosecutors pursued a case against him for giving an incomplete answer to a grand jury. He'd later be convicted of one felony stemming from his denials of steroid use back in 2003. And in

Sarah Wayne Callies: global events on April 14th, six retired generals stated their criticism of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's leadership, calling for his resignation in connection treatments of detainees at Guantanamo Bay, uh, and on April 16th, a case of mad cow disease was confirmed in British Columbia, um, although Canadian government claimed it never entered either human or animal food chains.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And funny fact, I, uh, until recently was not allowed to donate blood because I may have it.

Paul Adelstein: Because you may have mad cow disease.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That's right. Yes. Uh, I lived in Wales. Okay,

Paul Adelstein: that explains. So I'm really, really gonna make a cow. Don't call me a cow. A relationship. And I'm like, okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Now that tracks. Closes your

Paul Adelstein: mouth.

Paul Adelstein: She chews a cud. It's so weird. Mm

Sarah Wayne Callies: hmm. So I lived in Wales for a little bit when I was [00:04:00] eight, um, which is a beautiful place and I loved it. But because anybody who lived during the UK, during the mad outbreak, mad cow outbreak in the eighties is excluded from being eligible to donate blood, um, until like literally, I'm not joking this morning, my husband was like, I just got back from donating blood and they will now accept blood from you because by now you probably don't have mad cow disease.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So

Paul Adelstein: moo. Congratulations. Thank you. Okay, and with that, here is the compressed highlight reel from our watch party for Bluff.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Michael at the moment is going, I don't like the Whack Shack. By the way, I love the idea that a convicted felon in a maximum security prison is gonna complain about a dripping toilet.

Paul Adelstein: I love a high stakes poker game in a movie or TV show. I love it. Mm

Sarah Wayne Callies: hmm. Mm hmm.

Paul Adelstein: Talk about it forever.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Feels like you're a little tired of women treating you like you're an idiot.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Or people treating you like you're an idiot. But there's that [00:05:00] look you do that's like, Yeah, I'm as smart as you are. Thanks. See, this is why you can't give people nice things. Like Plato.

Paul Adelstein: My art programs have been discontinued all over America. I'm being snarky. Because I feel for him. And I'm uncomfortable with my emotion.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And we'll be right back with Marshall Ullman.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, welcome back, everybody. Our guest, Mr. Marshall Ullman, spent 23 episodes on Prison Break playing the living shit out of Lincoln Burroughs. Nope, LJ Burroughs. Um, Uh, the original, there's a, no, there's a joke in there I won't make. He went on to play Tommy Mickens in True Blood, um, and since has been all over TV, including Aquarius and Bates Motel and Humans, really doing wonderful work.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Marshall, welcome to the show.

Paul Adelstein: Hi Marshall, welcome. Hello

Marshall Allman: guys. Thank you so much for the beautiful intro.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, it's so good to see you, man. Too long. It's been way too long.

Marshall Allman: Wow.

Paul Adelstein: [00:06:00] It's been so fun. Getting to re watch your work on the show. I mean, you just

Marshall Allman: crush it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's

Paul Adelstein: so good. Thank you so much, man. Your assignment is hard.

Paul Adelstein: Wow. We

Sarah Wayne Callies: talk about this a lot, that like, you have to be at 11. The whole show. Thank you. I feel so

Marshall Allman: seen. Thanks, guys.

Paul Adelstein: I mean, it's one of those things at the time you don't think about it. It's like everyone's doing their thing and we're all, you know, Sarah and I always talk about we were kind of on our own little shows, obviously, Marshall, your show and my show kind of collided.

Paul Adelstein: Same show. We weren't in season one for a little while, but like, you know, Lincoln's always trying to keep his shit together. Wentworth's always trying to keep his shit together and LJ's just losing his mind. The takes are so high, right? His father's about to be executed and then his mother is gunned down and then he's accused of the murder.

Paul Adelstein: It just, the hits keep coming, man.

Marshall Allman: Oh, yeah. I always, uh, I always refer to it as my private [00:07:00] Hamlet.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah.

Marshall Allman: Exactly how it felt, I mean, and you're right, like, it was such a, um, intense thing. So man, thank you. Thank you so much. I can't tell you how much, like, I, I had never felt like, uh, I was always siloed, you know, in bits and pieces there.

Marshall Allman: And everybody around me is dying that I care about. Like,

Sarah Wayne Callies: like, honestly, every other person that you do a scene with.

Marshall Allman: Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Ends up dead in six episodes. It's terrifying.

Paul Adelstein: We talked about, and I'm sure you're, um, obviously you're familiar with this, but we talked about, um, how on, um, one hour dramas, kind of the hardest assignment in acting is the guest star on a one hour drama because you have all the drama, but you're not a series regular and no one's giving you the time to do it, et cetera.

Paul Adelstein: You kind of had a combo platter of that. You were a series regular, but you were always, as we just said, at 11 because of what the story dictated. And you don't ever seem pushing. You don't ever seem, we were talking, we talked to [00:08:00] Jessalyn. We had Jessalyn, uh, go sit down. It's so grounded. Yeah, Jessalyn loved working with you.

Paul Adelstein: She was talking about what a joy it was to work with you and how, um, you guys, it had to be, you were pretty young. It must've been an early job for you.

Marshall Allman: Oh man. It was, uh, oh my gosh. Y'all just, y'all just bombed me with so many amazing, I can't tell you, like that just brought so much closer to me. Um, cause I'm always wondered, like, I don't know, I guess I just didn't, I didn't, I wasn't around my peers on that.

Marshall Allman: So hearing you say that was, really, thank you so much, like, wow, um, and yes, working with Jessalyn, she was amazing, like, it was not easy to be sad when she was brutally murdered in front of my face. Um, uh, she was incredible and, um, yeah, it was very early for me. In fact, I, uh, did, I booked the job when I was 19 or [00:09:00] 20 and then, uh, I started acting literally when I was 18.

Marshall Allman: So I had fell ass backwards. Into acting because I wanted to be a soccer player. That was like my only dream. Soccer and art were my thing. And so just by circumstances, uh, I got injured really badly and then tried to come back from the injury. This is like when I was 17. And then, uh, turns out 10 years later they did the surgery wrong.

Marshall Allman: And so I had an ancillary injury after ancillary injury. And so at an early age I had to like, my dream like died in front of me. So I was like, Oh, I'll just try this. A friend suggested I go to a talent search thing, so I went and, uh, got this amazing response. Uh, which I'll tie into Chicago because I had to read, uh, Breakfast Club monologue at a

Paul Adelstein: talent search thing.

Marshall Allman: And, which, John Hughes, I'm like finding out, I have all these connections to [00:10:00] like, John Hughes basically raised me. Um, but like,

Paul Adelstein: Same.

Marshall Allman: Yeah, exactly, and then obviously we shot in Chicago. Uh, but which monologue, which character, so the, uh, the Emilio Estevez, yeah, when he talks about, uh, duct taping the butt cheeks and I had seen that movie, like, I mean, I think it was on TNT or TBS like every day, I didn't memorize that movie.

Marshall Allman: Love the breakfast club. There was like a channel devoted to it for like a while. 100%. So, uh, I had it memorized so I just went in and just knocked it out of the park and And you were supposed to read to all these agents and managers and stuff. And so I had like I think I had like eight agents and managers that wanted to represent me just from this talent search.

Marshall Allman: And I had no idea what that meant. I thought, I thought, if you ever saw that episode of The Simpsons where Homer had the mark on him, he had like a birthmark shaped like a thing, and so they were like, you're the chosen one. I thought that's how movie stars were made. Like, I was like, oh, Bruce Willis has the [00:11:00] birthmark.

Marshall Allman: So that's why Bruce Willis is, I didn't know like you could go become a, I didn't understand any concept of that. You And so, in fact, the, um, and so, so, I was being revealed to all this and I was like, Alright, well I'm not doing anything else and I don't want to go, I knew I wanted to go be an artist. And so, uh, I thought about being poor in New York and being poor in L.

Marshall Allman: A. looked way more

Paul Adelstein: Oh.

Marshall Allman: Way more. More. More.

Paul Adelstein: I

Theme Music: agree.

Marshall Allman: More people. Were you I can be poor in L. A. and maybe do this acting thing. This was my logic. I can, I can like, work on art and do art and maybe fund it with acting. I mean, obviously I had no business to because that's not a good business strategy like that.

Marshall Allman: I know, I'll take a really, really unlikely industry and I'll fund it with a possibly even unlikelier one.

Paul Adelstein: I have a similar business strategy, which is, you know, insanity. But you did make the wise, maybe not business choice, [00:12:00] but lifestyle choice.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So, wait, so you came I

Marshall Allman: graduated high school two weeks later, moved to LA and started taking like acting classes.

Marshall Allman: And then So how much technique did you have? How much training did you have before you like Very, very good question. So what happened was, I just, my first technique was someone said, try to do nothing. And I would watch people practice their audition. This is how raw it was, okay? I would watch people practice their auditions.

Marshall Allman: And you'd be like, God, it just doesn't seem real. So I tried the, like, don't move and don't do anything technique. And then, uh, I got this audition, unlikely chance to get this audition for a movie called Hostage. Where I had to actually do real acting. Doing nothing works great when all you need to do is be natural.

Marshall Allman: But then when the circumstances ratchet up and you've got to match it, like, you gotta have some gas in the tank. [00:13:00] You gotta have something. You have to do something. Yes, you have to do something. And so, I was like, Uh, just by way of natural instinct, the circumstances of this movie Haas has really hit me, personally.

Marshall Allman: And so I had a feel for this role and it was like a gauntlet of auditioning because I was so unproven. I think it took like two months for them to finally give me the part once I got that. I was like, Oh my God, this is amazing. And then the fear sets in of like, I don't know if I can do this job because I, what am I doing?

Marshall Allman: It was like, what have I gotten myself into? By the way, I literally

Sarah Wayne Callies: still feel that way on every job. You get the job, you spend the next six weeks going, Oh my God, I don't know if I can do this.

Marshall Allman: Yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: exactly.

Marshall Allman: I think I heard Johnny Depp talk about that one time where he's, even though they give him the job, he always takes these big swings with his character.

Marshall Allman: And there's always that moment of him revealing the work he's brought. And he's always like, they're gonna fire me. And he's like, he has to face that [00:14:00] like every movie he does. Who said that? Johnny Depp.

Paul Adelstein: Oh yeah, sure.

Marshall Allman: You know, um.

Paul Adelstein: I mean, I've heard Meryl Streep tell that story too. That her husband, like, was always ready about four days into shooting of her coming back, coming in and saying, I think I'm gonna, you know.

Paul Adelstein: Pull out before they kill. Before they fire me. Yeah.

Marshall Allman: And, and honestly, it's like, man, what a way to the what a hat's off that, that's so old. Yeah. You know?

Paul Adelstein: Gosh. It's great to know. I know. Even though it's so hard to go through, it's good to know that other people go through it. It's so, talk about feeling seen.

Marshall Allman: Yeah. Well, we gotta like jump up. Like we, we have to, I think you can sometimes get complacent in like, oh, you find your niche and what people want to book you in and work in.

Theme Music: Mm-Hmm. .

Marshall Allman: And then it's really difficult to like. Those opportunities that come up that like, all of a sudden you're like, Oh, I'm going to have to really work for this one.

Marshall Allman: I don't have to feel uncertain. It's not my wheelhouse. And

Theme Music: you can

Marshall Allman: easily pass on those opportunities in the name of whatever thing seems to come up to make it [00:15:00] impossible to like face that bear in the cave. And it's a good reminder to be like, no, man, we're doing this so we can face the bear in the cave.

Marshall Allman: And

Paul Adelstein: super smart.

Marshall Allman: So, okay. So, oh, sorry. So I digress. I'll get back, let me write it

Paul Adelstein: in. Your whole podcast is about digressing. Okay, great.

Marshall Allman: Alright, great. Then, uh, my ADHD brain will be perfect for this. Same. Fantastic. You can't interrupt the multitasking. Um, so, yeah. So, I get this, I finish this job with hostage, but in the middle of hostage, I realized, like, Oh, I now have to bring, I was doing all the, like, cliche bad actor things, like push ups, and, you know, reading, reading old letters, like, I was, all the, like, Lee Strasberg sense memory I could do, like, instinctually, like, whatever I could do to conjure up.

Marshall Allman: Hey, if it works, it works, by the way. Totally. Totally. Absolutely. No judgment. But like, I was literally [00:16:00] like, doing all the things that you would think you had to do to be emotional. And then I happened to be dating someone at the time who was such a phenomenal actress. She started to like, give me tidbits, just enough coaching to kind of, to where I was like, and, and this person is phenomenally talented.

Marshall Allman: So, and I, and I've seen their work. So I was like, Where did you learn this magic? And she's like, Oh, that's called acting technique. So I Hosted I I I went and started training like hardcore and got my Meisner training and that that person I was dating is my wife, by the way You

Paul Adelstein: married during season one, right?

Marshall Allman: Yes,

Paul Adelstein: so we have we're gonna ask you about that story, but keep going

Marshall Allman: Yeah I mean literally the first season of prison break was so life changing for me on so many fronts You That it's, it's hard to, like, it was, I was [00:17:00] nerver, it was, I was so nerveracked to come back and talk about it because it was such a, I haven't done a lot of processing in that time in my life, but it was so life changing.

Marshall Allman: Uh, for one of Well, and you know, for

Sarah Wayne Callies: what it's worth, I think, I don't, I don't think that's just you. I as, as we've been talking to people, I think that's why a lot of the writers felt that way. And, you know, some of our directors were coming on at a point when like this was a big pivot point for them. And certainly even for me coming into this thing, I got a lot of emotions about this show, which is part of why I wanted to get up with Paul and, and dig into it, because a lot of it was extraordinary, but it was so intense, so intense.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And, and, and also we were quite young, you know, like I came into the business older than you, but I came into the business from grad school at 25 and ended up on this show at 27. And so like, similarly trying to figure out like, here's all the acting technique I [00:18:00] learned and now we're on set and it's freezing and we're on location and the sun's going down and you've got three takes and you've done it 25 times already.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And nobody cares. Because they need you to do the job in these They don't need to know

Paul Adelstein: your action They don't need to know your action word.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, 100 percent Nobody wants your story, they just want your performance. And I do remember certain days where directors would like, I'd work with a director and then a couple days later I'd work with them again and they'd be like, Yo, this kid, Marshall.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Just like, it was interesting, like, it was, it started to be a conversation with directors. So like, this kid's a live wire and he's bringing it. And it was cool because we never saw, I never saw it, Paul, you did, but I didn't see it until the show aired. I saw it and I got to work with

Paul Adelstein: you and it was so fun.

Paul Adelstein: And also, like, I will say this, you did not make the mistake a lot of actors did. And he has to be cranked to 11 R. We did talk about this with Jesselyn too, is that a lot of people, especially when they're young and especially when they're just learning technique and they are [00:19:00] coming into a situation that's pressurized like that and asked to, have to be very emotional scene, after scene, after scene, is they kind of, you know, the live wire thing can be like this person is It won't come out of their trailer.

Paul Adelstein: They broke down after the scene. They don't play well with others. They started screaming at the costume, costumer. And, and because there's a lot of pressure and people are like, I'm so, I need to be so good. The pressure is so high to perform at the drop of a hat with things that are so emotional that it can kind of drive people to bad behavior sometimes.

Paul Adelstein: I'm not excusing that bad behavior. But it takes a lot of people, I think, time to learn not to do that. You never did that.

Marshall Allman: Ah, wow.

Paul Adelstein: And that is such a combo of wonderfulness because Yeah, no, the audience does, can't tell the difference, but boy, the process tells the difference and the people remember the situation, remember it.

Paul Adelstein: Like being able to deliver that without, you know.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Being a dick about it?

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, being a dick about it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, I just want to back up for a second. [00:20:00] Wasn't there a thing in an elevator? I remember an elevator story.

Paul Adelstein: Oh my

Marshall Allman: gosh. Wait, wasn't he a

Paul Adelstein: dick? Okay, we can edit this out. No, no, no.

Marshall Allman: There was, there was one circumstance where.

Marshall Allman: No names, no situation. Very early on, I was getting told in my ear by the director to give more impetus in the scene. And it was a physical scene. And so I would, like, every take they were telling me, you gotta do more to get that person. And that one was, I, I think, I, I, now, as a, later on, I, I would, I would have never done.

Marshall Allman: What, what happened in that scene, but I was being pushed and I didn't have any idea. So people who are listening will know who this is and will know what I'm talking about. And so if they're there, Hey, I, you know, you took it amazing and I, and I would never do that today, but let me address this first off.

Marshall Allman: Like, [00:21:00] I can't even tell you what you guys are saying to me right now means so much to me because I was so consumed with the wave. of the popularity of the show and the pressure of my circumstance. So it was, it was to hear that, to hear what you said is really, really enjoyable because you, you, I had no concept of what other people thought of me.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I get that. I mean, that pressure, all of those things at once, like not to mention probably some part of you is still processing the grief of the soccer career that wasn't. On top

Marshall Allman: of, on top of like my personal feel, like when I was rewatching these episodes. And I know what I'm drawing on to prepare to make these circumstances personal.

Marshall Allman: I had nev I was 20, 21. I had never thought about some of the things that had happened in my life.

Theme Music: That

Marshall Allman: I was now [00:22:00] drawing on to understand these circumstances. And so these, these, um, these circumstances were like hyper personal to me at a time when I had no concept for how to process emotions at all, let alone live in the pool you have to live in

Theme Music: to

Marshall Allman: be able to deliver, to make the circumstances real to you, to personalize them.

Marshall Allman: So it was like deeply, deeply personal to me. And did that come at a cost? I mean, yeah, like, the, the cost was, I didn't get to know anybody. I was in a, uh, a booth of isolation, of just like, It was, it was just, yeah, it was exhausting work, like I had to develop a technique for how to maintain that level of adrenaline, that level of vigilance, and, um, just, like, [00:23:00] I look back at it and I'm like, oh my, I felt so bad, I, watching LJ, I was like, I feel so bad for, this is hardcore, for, he was 15, 16, like, he just learned to, he was riding a bike, in the episode to deal drugs, Oh my god, and now the he's literally at the heart of a government conspiracy is in a linchpin

Paul Adelstein: And a trial for capital murder

Marshall Allman: Unbel yeah, unbel like watching his family get murdered and then being blaped.

Marshall Allman: Oh my god Kellerman was so by the way hats off to you You were such a good like it was you were so I was watching you and I was just like you had this amazing mix of casual indifference with like hardcore um like persistence to be excellent at your job that like you were able to find humor and but like so like this whole vibe of like I [00:24:00] hate you but I love you like you're you're astonishingly good at your job which made you Confoundingly evil, but likable at the same time.

Marshall Allman: I

Paul Adelstein: don't think. It was fun too. And I was just like, depraved

Marshall Allman: indifference. Yeah, and you would, you would, at the time, like I didn't have any perspective of this because like you said, we're all in our own silos. So I'm watching back and I'm like, what a, what a choice there. You know what I mean? Or like, um, so hats off to you on that.

Paul Adelstein: Thank you.

Marshall Allman: I felt

Paul Adelstein: like that all came from, I'd never gotten to play a part like that before where It felt like, Oh, this guy wins almost every conflict and he knows he has the upper hand in every conflict, both physically usually, but also he knows something you don't know about. They've already tapped into your phone or they know where you're going or whatever it is.

Paul Adelstein: So there's a supreme, I wanted to bring like the full force of the United States military industrial [00:25:00] complex to bear on everything that the guy did. You know what I mean? There's a kind of like overwhelming. I always wanted it to feel like Lincoln Burroughs is not a big deal.

Marshall Allman: Wow. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Paul Adelstein: Like I've done way harder things than

Marshall Allman: this.

Marshall Allman: And then as it gets progressively more difficult, you get flustered, but like Right. Yeah. But it's

Paul Adelstein: more like, I wanted it to feel more like a pain in the ass than, not to lower the stakes, stakes couldn't be higher, but it was just one thing he had to do every day.

Marshall Allman: No, you did the, you did the Tommy Lee Jones in, in The Fugitive.

Marshall Allman: Oh, yeah. When he's like, I didn't kill my wife, and Tommy Jones is like, I don't care. Like, which ratchets that up so much more. Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Because it's like, yeah, I mean, Kellerman did have that mentality, which is, this is my assignment. It's not passing judgment or knowing the facts of this thing. That is not my purview.

Paul Adelstein: I am a tool.

Marshall Allman: Wow. Yeah, sorry, go

Sarah Wayne Callies: ahead. Sorry. What was cool about you two together, actually, was [00:26:00] exactly that mix. Is that in the scenes where you guys appeared together. And even the scenes where you were sort of implicating one another, even if you weren't on camera together, Paul is so detached and calm and methodical.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And LJ is such a hot mess. And what's, what's beautiful about it is that contrast makes things feel very real. But also a lot of people in this show are pretty calm, right? Like a lot of the guys in prison are trying to maintain a certain level of focus. And what gives the whole thing. what underpins the whole thing is there's this kid who's losing his mind.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And so it actually becomes like kind of the center of the storm in a way that gives everything the stakes. Because in some ways I think LJ is having the reaction that everyone in the audience is like, dude, yes, yes, it's that fucking crazy. It's nuts. It's, but everybody else being calm. There's [00:27:00] something about the work that the way that you played the character that we care about Lincoln.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Because he's trying to protect this very vulnerable kid who's falling apart.

Marshall Allman: Oh man, wow.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So what did you do with it at the end of the day? So you, you do your work, you get to set.

Marshall Allman: Yeah, that's, gosh, I mean, um, I think there's a, there's a catharsis of like, Oh, I, I just did, I paid homage to the stakes of that circumstance.

Marshall Allman: And now. It's imaginary, like, yes, I understand, like, cause I'll take my things, things from my life that help me understand, like, the ballpark that this is in. But then I'm always required to like turn the stakes up, right? So it's like you find the personal approach to it so that you can understand all the feelings you're going through [00:28:00] and make it very real to you, but then you have to ratchet it up.

Marshall Allman: And so that's usually the adrenaline level. So when I'm done, the hard part is when you have multiple days in a row where you have to keep that adrenaline, you know? So, You have to totally decompress, but you can't like drink alcohol because you got to like be hydrated for the next day because they're wanting tears.

Marshall Allman: And if you're dehydrated, you literally have no tears. Like I ran out of tears on this show. So they probably used a lot of takes where they ran out of tears, you know? And so I developed a protocol of like, Oh, I have to, I have to stay hydrated. I have to get rest. I have to do these things so that I can ramp it all up.

Marshall Allman: And then take it all down, but the lasting effect for me was getting to, like, know how I feel about my parents. Like, that's the beauty of getting to go to an emotional place, it softens my heart, and like, opens me up to be more loving, [00:29:00] or to be forgiving, or to understand things from a different perspective.

Marshall Allman: And, like, it just made me feel Like a complete human who could who is in touch with how they felt about things and That you go through hurts and it's okay, like you're gonna survive

Theme Music: You know,

Marshall Allman: you like learn how to inadvertently be like a pretty healthy emotionally process emotional processor

Sarah Wayne Callies: That's

Theme Music: so you know,

Sarah Wayne Callies: that's something I don't think we talk about enough I think if we choose to, we can be taught by the characters that we play, and we can be taught by the stories that we tell.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And they can bring things into our lives that maybe aren't there otherwise.

Marshall Allman: One million percent. Like, if I I always say, like, acting [00:30:00] is an act of compassion. Like, if I don't understand my character's side, if I don't, if I'm not their advocate, then, like, who's gonna, why am I playing their character? Like, Yeah, am I gonna bring any humanity because the thing that you're amazed by is like we watch these shows and you start to feel for people you would never feel for in real life because you unfortunately you probably have to have boundaries with them and they go I don't know why this person is on my life.

Marshall Allman: You know what I mean? Like, the risk of you going off the handle is extremely high, but totally I mean, that's like the highest form of our art, is in film, you get to like, vicariously spend time with people whom you, who is too dangerous in real life. And then it hopefully teaches you about how you can process and feel things from a distance and be a voyeur, and feel certain ways, and the great art is like, is the one that makes us feel that way.

Marshall Allman: Um, walk, walk a mile in someone's shoes that we would never have done, you know?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah.

Marshall Allman: Um, so approaching life that way is like, [00:31:00] I don't know, it just, it's sort of fundamentally learning to act fundamentally shifted how I, I understand people and deal with people.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And then in the middle of all this, the job, the job becoming very successful, you being silent in this world, figuring out acting in the middle of all this, if memory serves.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You threw yourself out of a plane, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, actually, I thought you were speaking metaphorically, but yes, literally. No, literally. You literally threw yourself out of a plane, right?

Paul Adelstein: We've been talking about this story a lot, and we want to get it right, because We all found out about it at the Golden Globes drinks, right?

Paul Adelstein: Or was it People's Choice Awards drinks, Sarah? I think it was

Sarah Wayne Callies: Golden Globes. We all got together at the um,

Paul Adelstein: And we got together at Hard Rock Cafe or something. Sarah?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, uh, it was the House

Paul Adelstein: of Blues. House of Blues, sorry.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes. And Marshall shows up and we're [00:32:00] like, hey dude, congratulations, and you're like, thanks, I got married.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think. Wait. Engaged. Yes. Engaged. Okay. So talk us through this.

Marshall Allman: Okay. So obviously I'm smitten with Jamie and we're dating and, um, I had tricked her, uh, that I had to stay back and do like ADR for, for prison break in Chicago. And then I wasn't going to make it home for Thanksgiving. But all the meanwhile I had planned with her family.

Marshall Allman: That I wanted to propose to her by skydiving out of a plane because her she would always say If I wasn't an actor, then I would be a skydive instructor. That's what Jamie always said about herself. Yeah Yeah, so she Yeah, so she'd been a bunch of times. She didn't have her license or anything. But like, that's one of the things she took me to do.

Marshall Allman: Like, it wasn't like I was pushing this on her. This is like, coming from what she liked, you know? Cause you want, when you're engaged with someone, like, you want it [00:33:00] to mean something to her, not to you, you know?

Sarah Wayne Callies: And Dari?

Marshall Allman: Yes. I call her family. Obviously, I ask their blessing, like, Hey, I want to marry your daughter.

Marshall Allman: Are you guys cool with that? And you're

Sarah Wayne Callies: 20.

Marshall Allman: I'm 20. 20,

Sarah Wayne Callies: 21.

Marshall Allman: Like, you guys are young. And, um, and they were like, yes. And I was like, okay, great. Um, so I need you to, I'm coming back for Thanksgiving. I need you to inadvertently schedule a camping trip in Paris, California. Where there's like, it's a really popular skydiving place.

Marshall Allman: Like, where skydivers train and stuff. So like, if we go camping near there and that's gonna be the family Thanksgiving, then it makes sense. It makes sense to be like. I'm gonna come back into town, surprise her totally, and then be like, Okay, well I'm here for Thanksgiving, what are we doing? And they're gonna be like, we're going to Paris to go camping.

Marshall Allman: Right. Oh! And then literally the conversation went like this, Oh, we're going, oh, that's cool, that's where we skydived. That's where you took me [00:34:00] skydiving for the first time. She goes, yeah, and I'm like, What? Why don't we go skydiving? Like, let's do it. And she's gonna say, yeah, let's do it, and the family's gonna be like, yeah, that's so cool.

Marshall Allman: What she doesn't know is I have, like, friends making a 20 by 40 foot sign out of canvas, like, sewn together, and they hand painted, like, will you marry me? So we go there, you know, and they're like, they have the skydiver, people film you and stuff. So I'm getting to do like little asides that she doesn't know into my camera, like, you know, and the whole bit, you know, but I don't know getting into the plane.

Marshall Allman: I don't know that the sign's finished because they can't bring it in and I can't be talking with them. So I had to be like, it needs to be here at this time. And so I remember we're up in the plane. And at like 20, 000 feet or whatever they do, really ridiculously high, and I look out the window and I see, I can see the sign.

Marshall Allman: It's like this is the ring, by the way? Is the ring in your pocket? [00:35:00] Yes, it is in my pocket. Okay. And, um, and so I remember being like, yeah, they got the sign. You know, like it's there. Now

Sarah Wayne Callies: all you have to do is jump 20, 000 feet out of it. And

Marshall Allman: I've got to go first and get down there so I can be ready. And so we literally had a camera on, on her skydiving down, and you could see the point where she read the sign and her legs start like kicking, you know, because it's a tandem.

Marshall Allman: Oh my

Sarah Wayne Callies: god.

Marshall Allman: And um, so yeah, she lands and then I run over and hug her and take a knee and pull the ring out. And she was so, it was so, she knelt like with me and I was like, no, no, no, like I kneel, you don't kneel. It was like, it

Sarah Wayne Callies: was hilarious.

Marshall Allman: That's very sweet.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You really did Michael Schofield this thing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You're like, I have a 90 point plan and it involves a hundred thousand people and like,

Marshall Allman: Oh, 100%.

Paul Adelstein: I wanted to, I've wanted to know the details of this story for a long time and it's actually way better than I even imagined and [00:36:00] my expectation was high. Um, speaking of questions for Marshall, we have some fan questions for him, but we're going to take a quick break and we'll get to those when we get back.

Paul Adelstein: Okay, we're back.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Fans had a lot of questions for you. We're going to get through some, but I'm just going to start off with this one because it's, uh, Simple. And I'm really curious about it. Um, an account called at Sarah owns my heart asked, um, I know, very sweet. Um, describe your character in three words,

Marshall Allman: um, young, overwhelmed, and deeply passionate.

Paul Adelstein: Good one. Here's a good, here's one I like at faith, num, men's sector, faith in a man at six seeker at faith. [00:37:00] N U M A N S E K E R asks this simple question for you, Marshall, Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo?

Marshall Allman: You know what? That, uh, that has always flip flopped for me.

Paul Adelstein: Okay, where are you right now? Where am

Marshall Allman: I at right now?

Marshall Allman: Obviously with Messi in the United States, it's so cool to see the country at large understanding. Like just how phenomenal he is. I mean if Cristiano had come to the MLS, too we'd be doing the same thing for Cristiano because they're both so phenomenal kind of like a You know, it's so amazing that we've gotten to have these two like Incredible athletes going like not only at Real Madrid and Barcelona, but like going head to head there, but like They it'll probably come out that they both spurred each other on to be the best

Theme Music: sure

Marshall Allman: that they could be But yeah right now if I had to choose it's a hundred percent messy.

Marshall Allman: I mean the guy just won the [00:38:00] World Cup So yeah right now it's definitely messy. But uh, that is no knock to Ronaldo. He's phenomenal as well, too

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, okay, so I have another question for you, but this is something that I just wanted you to know, because somebody at Sarah L. Wood said, I named my daughter LJ because of this character.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Wow. Oh my gosh. Wow. I thought the nickname was so cute. I just wanted you to know that that was out there in the world because, um, that's pretty amazing.

Marshall Allman: Um. That's so incredible to hear. Cause you always like, I look and I go like, Obviously I have a deep well of compassion for LJ, but I don't always know that everyone else does, and I'm like, Oh, am I just the annoying emotional guy that's like going through all these crazy circumstances?

Marshall Allman: And you know, I felt like I was always being like duct taped or whatever like so I have these insecurities So it's amazing to hear that people understood his plight and to the point of naming a [00:39:00] kid after LJ is, uh, is incredible. Yeah, that's an honor. I'm

Sarah Wayne Callies: curious about this one. So this is Jarrett with a bunch of underscores.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, did you form a personal bond with Dominic acting together outside of prison break? I mean, you guys came from such different worlds of experience, of life.

Marshall Allman: Yeah, I mean, I'd like to think we did, you know, um, I have, I have like a deep spot in my heart for him. I can't, I don't think we've like seen each other in so long, but I know I would be very excited to see him and catch up and so yes, and at the time I felt, I felt very connected to him because obviously I'm like projecting all my love onto him like, uh, so yeah, I always felt like You got that on

Paul Adelstein: screen bond.

Paul Adelstein: Your on screen bond is really special. It really reads.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, well, shall I do our call in question of [00:40:00] the week, Paul? So, we do a call in question every week, Marshall, these episodes, uh, I think this started with the last episode, um, the last one that aired, that you heard. So, we have a call in line where people can leave, uh, us a message, and our question this week is, name some random inmates, by which I mean, so far we have D Cups, Avocado, Red Bull, Cherry.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, give us a great name. And a three line bio for your fictional Fox River inmate, uh, the number to call is 401 3 P B R E A K.

Paul Adelstein: That's 401 3 P BREAK. Yep. Marshall Allman, thank you so much for being with us. so much. To all the fishes folks and friends out there, for listening. You can subscribe to our Watch Party apps on the Patreon link on the show page wherever you're listening right now.

Paul Adelstein: And now Marshall, we have two final questions for you that we always wrap up our show when we have a guest. [00:41:00] The first is, if you're on death row, what would your last meal be?

Marshall Allman: Mmm, probably tacos. I just gotta go, I gotta go try a true taco.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Very Austin response. I like

Paul Adelstein: that. And then, um, the last one is, fill in the blank, don't get sent to prison, but if you do get sent to prison, Remember to punch someone

Marshall Allman: immediately.

Paul Adelstein: There you go. There you go

Sarah Wayne Callies: going back to our roots.

Paul Adelstein: All right

Sarah Wayne Callies: Prison breaking with sarah and paul is a caliber studio production Your hosts have been friends, but not besties sarah wayne callies and paul edelstein. Our prison warden has And producer Ben Haber. Our head of Jailhouse Rock is Paul Edelstein who made the music for this podcast Keeping us Slim and Trim.

Sarah Wayne Callies: The Prison Yard has been sound designer and editor. The great Jeff Schmidt keeping us up to date on the outside world is production Assistant Drew Austin. Our prison artist logo and brand designer is John [00:42:00] Zido and Little Big Brands. Check them out at www.littlebigbrands.com. Follow us on Instagram at Prison Break Podcast.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Email us at prison breaking@caliberstudio.com and call. Call us at 401 3P B R E A K. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul has been a Calibre Studio production. Thank you for listening.