Camden Bernatz (00:00:02) - Welcome to brands and campaigns, the stories and people behind clever marketing moves powered by EKR. I'm your host, Camden Bernatz, creative director and head of brand strategy at EKR. Welcome back to the show. Today is another reaction episode to our past conversation. I talked with Kevin Mulroy from Mischief USA about the campaign he oversaw for Tinder. It starts with a swipe, and today I'm joined by one of our interns here at EKR, Shelby Traveller, who's been doing a lot of good stuff with us. going to school, finishing up school, and also taking out work into the real world at the same time. And has it been great? And so we're going to get her take on the campaign itself, as well as the conversation I had with Kevin. But, Shelby, thank you for being here.
Shelby Traveller (00:00:50) - Yes, thanks for having me. I'm excited.
Camden Bernatz (00:00:51) - We're going to get into this, and I'm excited to, before we dive into the conversation, though, I just want to give a little notification to the listeners.
Camden Bernatz (00:00:58) - We have an email address. We've kind of referred to email a couple times, but haven't had an official address that we've promoted very much, and now we do. So if you want to send us an email, either with, recommendations for where we should, or what kind of work we should feature. If you have a campaign or a branding story you want to feature, or any questions or just tips for us, anything you want. Basically we you can reach us at brandspodcast@ekragency.com No spaces or characters or anything, just lowercase letters brandspodcast@ekragency.com. All right, so let's get into this. Well, Shelby, you reviewed or you heard the conversation I had with Kevin, right? We talked a lot about how this campaign came to be. And before we get into the the nitty gritty of of the craft, the design, the copywriting, etc., you are a little bit closer to the, dating scene. The college scene. The than I am.
Camden Bernatz (00:01:54) - Is Tinder still a thing people using Tinder? Or is that like what? What is the current status of Tinder? Because we talked me and Kevin talked about what we perceive the status to be. What's it like?
Shelby Traveller (00:02:03) - Yes. Honestly, dating apps are kind of unfamiliar to me. Until I obviously started doing a little bit of research about this campaign. And it was it was fascinating. I at first glance, the campaign to me gave the same vibe as Sabrina Carpenter, which I thought was so fun. And so I kind of did a little more research on the other, the other dating apps and kind of what they're putting out, but I know they're super relevant. I have tons of friends on, on different dating apps, and I think they're a great way that people are meeting others. I mean, I don't know if they're really relevant. They're they're fun. They're a way to get out and meet new people, especially people you wouldn't typically cross paths with. And I know, I know they're being used, that's for sure.
Camden Bernatz (00:02:52) - So I first want to ask, what is the Sabrina Carpenter vibe? What does that mean? What are you getting from this that says Sabrina Carpenter from this campaign?
Shelby Traveller (00:02:59) - Fun, flirty, bright, vibrant. Her new album is called Short and Sweet, and it's that fun cursive that, this campaign is also using just a little more, I would say fun, but like still edgy enough where it's it's interesting to anyone who's watched her last two music videos, I feel like they could be paired, they could be paired with the ads, and when they come together.
Camden Bernatz (00:03:29) - Okay, a little bit of free advice for Mischief or Tinder or anybody working on them. You got to get Sabrina Carpenter for your next serious promotion, but awesome. Okay, so then I know you said you're not really a user of the apps. I'll believe you. I guess everyone says that, but somehow they're still getting used. Well, I'll believe you that you're not familiar with it, but you still hear things and have kind of perception.
Camden Bernatz (00:03:49) - So if you've if you've do you have any. Let me back up a little bit, Kevin, I talked about the reason this came about and what Tinder's objective was, is that Tinder had kind of become viewed across, the, the market as the hookup app. It was it was where you went for hookups for one-night stands, things like that, and not that. That's the only thing that I mentioned. I actually met my wife on Tinder. I'm a little bit embarrassed about that. And it was not a hookup. It was it was just, you know, to meet somebody. But I the only reason, the reason I, the reason I was kind of embarrassed about meeting her on Tinder is because I also had that. I was like, this is like the this is the yeah, that I went through that app and found her. So I was a little bit sheepish about that. Is that accurate? Do you feel like that's been the perception is Tinder every every dating app has its kind of overarching umbrella perception of what dating apps are like.
Camden Bernatz (00:04:37) - But does Tinder have a special kind of place in that, you think, or is it? Yeah, speak to that.
Shelby Traveller (00:04:42) - I think absolutely. I, I really liked hearing his perspective on how rather than trying to flip an idea in consumers' minds, he really honed in on this is what we're doing. We were already owning it. Let's see how we can how we can push that further. I mean, Tinder, Hinge, and Mutual are probably the three that I hear about the most. And of the three, I mean, Tinder's logo's literally a flame like it. It gives off like it's spicy energy. It gives it. Yeah, spicy, like 100%. And so I definitely think in my head. That's like, I don't want to say the most edgy, but like, the most, like, hook-up type vibe, whereas like mutual is like, okay, it's like the same. It's consistent. Right? Yeah. Hinge I'm not as familiar with. I would say I hear more like the two extremes a little bit in like perception-based thinking of those.
Camden Bernatz (00:05:35) - So yeah, you mentioned a couple of you mentioned mutual, which is one that maybe not as many of our audience, is aware of mutual. For those who don't know, Shelby and are both in Utah, which is very synonymous with the church, Jesus Christ, latter-day Saints and mutual is a a specific dating app targeting that audience or people who are church members looking for other church members, similar values and things like that. So that's an even more what's the word like a microcosm of the dating app experience. But yeah, so you just want to clarify that for anybody who's like, what is mutual? Check it out though if you want. But I also think in talking about what your, your, your perspective is, which kind of was aligned with what mine is, I think Tinder has the benefits and the downsides of being kind of one of the first to really gain traction as far as dating apps. Now, online dating was before Tinder, people had, you know, Match.com and eHarmony and whatever other ones are out there, but they kind of the mobilization, the app, the phone, the swipe left, swipe right.
Camden Bernatz (00:06:31) - They were one of the first ones to really get big in that. And so the good things that come with that, they kind of had their names quickly attached to that, but also the perceived negatives about that or quickly attached to their name. And so things that came after the fact later apps Bumble was like, well, what's the problem with Tinder? Well, it's we want we want to be able to have women start the conversation instead of getting thirsted after by these inappropriate men. And so they were able to pivot based on that. And like, people were able to kind of position themselves as a response to how they're different from Tinder because Tinder was the first one. And so being the first one there wasn't. It was kind of the Wild West. And you just said, hey, we're just going to match you up. However, however you decide to match yourself, like what us provide the platform. So it kind of makes sense that they would kind of be associated with some of the perceived negatives.
Camden Bernatz (00:07:17) - But again, a hookup culture isn't even a negative for some people. Some people don't want exactly for that. And so Tinder is perfect for them and they don't have a problem with that. So even saying something like perceived negative, I guess we should keep that in context. But yeah. Anyways, so very, very interesting. So this campaign, I talked with Kevin about the fact that I asked him about kind of the process of the visual identity, the art direction feel, and then like the messaging. He talked about how there was lots of different messages that it was it was really easy to come up with different. Like for example, I'm looking here on the my screen is some of the examples, like a toothbrush at their place or somebody to go to heaven with or comfortable silences. There's all these little descriptions of little of like little spotlight moment about types of relationships and how it's all types of relationships when you look at the art direction. Because I don't know if I specify this before, you're specifically on on the design side of our creative team, you're a designer and have a real good eye for for the art.
Camden Bernatz (00:08:15) - Where do you feel like the art direction? What does that convey or what does that capture to help this, effort to help kind of reclaim the, the swipe and the, the positioning of Tinder? Do you feel like do you have any input on, like, the strength or weakness or whatever about the art direction? It's very bold and colorful, like you said. Any thoughts on its effectiveness?
Shelby Traveller (00:08:36) - It's different. Honestly, I feel like we see a lot of companies that play it safe and not always in a bad way, but it's different. It's bold. I mean, a lot of times the most impactful copy we see is short and sweet, and relevant. Right. And I think that drawing the parallel between this consistent art direction and this like, punchy, fun copy, I think coupled together really helped build out this campaign. And I think the reason it's gained as much traction as it has is because it is so fun and so just Gen Z ish like it's so Gen Z is very like DIY, want to do it our way independent.
Shelby Traveller (00:09:22) - And I think drawing on that and seeing like, hey you, this is your opportunity to own your space, just like we're going to own our space. I think that was art direction-wise. I think that was the way to go.
Camden Bernatz (00:09:33) - It's definitely eye-catching to write, even if you like. Even if the message was resonated with you or you were showing diversity of different types of relationships or couples or things like that, it still like you have that people of first pay attention and care at it or look at it. Right. And something like someone is holding hands on the beach or whatever, that just kind of gets lost into lots of different things look that way. But when you're seeing these people that have different colored hair and weird costumes and some people have like jewelry, like stuck along their, their head and for like, I don't even know what I'm looking at. There's and I shouldn't say weird. Like I'm being judgmental a little bit, but they're kind of weird people. Like, they're not they're not your typical normal.
Camden Bernatz (00:10:10) - Yeah. It's like okay, it's eye-catching enough and inherently. Whether you resonate with the people on the picture or not, or the video or not, the idea of being different is what comes through. Like that or not. I shouldn't say being different, but being lots of different types of things and people relationships can find what they're wanting. On Tinder, it all starts with the swipe. And so they showed a bunch of like regular looking things, and all the different ads kind of looked the same. Then it would be kind of conveying that this narrow-minded thing that you can get starts with a swipe, but by showing all these wild things that it all can possibly start with a swipe, it kind of conveys this. Whatever you're looking for, you can get it on Tinder, which is which is obviously at the core of the brief.
Shelby Traveller (00:10:53) - They really owned a space that has so much opportunity to grow. And I think even in what they've put out so far, they've shown that I think everything they've put out is so cohesive.
Shelby Traveller (00:11:05) - And I think a lot of that is due to the art direction. Like they decided this is a look and feel we wanted to have, and we're going to we're going to use it and we're going to own it and we're going to exaggerate it. We're not going to shy away from it. But I also think, I don't know, it's just it's so fun. It's just Sabrina Carpenter, I don't know how else to say it. Yeah. It just I mean, she is that way that she has her own brand and she owns that space. And I think Tinder very much found this space. And they said, we're going to go with it.
Shelby Traveller (00:11:32) - Yeah.
Camden Bernatz (00:11:32) - So let me ask you a couple more questions, because this is making me think of some of your recent experience. I didn't share this yet, but give you a little shout out. You and your student team recently won an award. Tell us what award that was.
Shelby Traveller (00:11:46) - We competed in a competition called nSac. It's a national student advertising competition against other universities, and we came away with third place.
Shelby Traveller (00:11:56) - And then the Inspired by Insight Simmons Award, which was basically an award given to the team that had like the best insight that they that they went with. So kind of a fun award that was based on research, but it had that creative twist where it was the team that, like, was able to find that insight that unhidden or that hidden truth and then build on that.
Camden Bernatz (00:12:18) - So what brand was that for? It's really.
Shelby Traveller (00:12:20) - Cool. It was for Tide and it was. We did a whole campaign about zombies and Tide, which was so different, but so interesting and super fun.
Camden Bernatz (00:12:29) - Awesome. Yeah, I liked I bring that up not just as a as a irrelevant tangent, but I'm thinking about awards. I've been that we're in Cannes Lions season or in award season, and I don't know how much you follow the debates on like LinkedIn and industry articles and stuff, but there's always the back and forth about how much should we value creative awards, advertising awards because they get you noticed, they make a portfolio look nice.
Camden Bernatz (00:12:54) - They get attention on either your brand or your agency. You did work on behalf of a brand or whatever, but some of the pushback is what's unique or has a mission behind it, or is just weird enough to be different. Gets the awards whether or not it actually helps the brand that's doing for it. Does it make an effect in the in the marketing so we won't have to get this episode is not dedicated to that company. That could be a different episode. But thinking about this again, it's one campaign. Not that. Not that one campaign has a totally changed everything for a brand. But thinking about what we talked about, that perception that Tinder just kind of the hookup-only app, do you feel like forget the awards, that this may or may not win from creativity or the art direction or being clever? Do you feel like this does anything to help change the perception of Tinder as that does it? Does it do anything to reposition people's minds what Tinder is?
Shelby Traveller (00:13:49) - Well, I think we talked originally about how Tinder had this space of being like hookup culture.
Shelby Traveller (00:13:54) - Right. And I think by owning that, but repositioning it in a way that it can be hookup culture if you want it to be, or it can be a long-term relationship if you want it to be, no matter what you want it to be. It all starts with a swipe right. And so I think, do I think they completely did away with hookup culture? No. But do I think that they allowed themselves the opportunity to to own that space and to build on it? Yeah.
Camden Bernatz (00:14:19) - That makes sense.
Camden Bernatz (00:14:20) - I feel like and again we it's easy to just, you know, look from our position not have to, you know, dive into the we're not looking at data or anything I don't I don't know what Tinder's downloads look like. I can probably pull that up later. But for me, my gut reaction is that it kind of just depends on what you want to accomplish, because we talked about how unique it is showing these different couples there are, first of all, the couples are not all traditional heterosexual couples.
Camden Bernatz (00:14:47) - So there's different different types of orientations being shown. And then there's people that are like, you know, in costumes and unique body art and haircuts. And everyone's kind of not your typical straight-laced, run-of-the-mill person. So what I feel like that does is show there is room for everyone. But at the same time, if you are kind of a typical, you know, cis-gendered, heterosexual person looking for kind of like basically me, like I'm not really that. I'm kind of I'm. Just a straight white guy, right? Like. And I found my wife very just it was very not a spicy connection or anything, but just someone to talk to to me. And I'm not in the dating world anymore, but like, not that I would care so much about an ad. I know the ads are just ads. That doesn't mean like everyone sees me like these people by using Tinder, but this actually puts me a little bit further from it because I'm like, that's kind of the wacky.
Camden Bernatz (00:15:34) - Like, that's for weird stuff that I'm looking for. Just a I want to go on a date with a girl and take her to like, the pizza place, like I'm looking for very normal stuff when I was dating. Yeah. So this would seem even more like, okay, it's kind of out there. It's looking for interesting type of. Yeah, I don't know. What word is that that makes sense. But like to me it's like, okay, if you're okay having guys like me be less feel like it's their app because you want to have a more diverse type of of user, then it's probably good. I think it shows that. But there are some people who maybe were using it that were like, this is kind of the weird, freaky, colorful like.
Shelby Traveller (00:16:13) - Oh, that fits me anymore. Yeah, yeah. No, I think that's so true. I would be interested to see how many, you know, straight white guys like are on Tinder versus like, you know, a little bit different.
Shelby Traveller (00:16:25) - But it would also be fun to see like, I know they came out with a series of those four ads. Right. And all four were very clever, but they were all different and definitely weird. They were interesting. But let's say they did a fifth. It was like just a typical story because I know this campaign, I think they've done a good job of showing what different can be, but maybe also using that same art direction to show like, like I think normal can still be normal is not the right word. I don't know what the right word traditional is. Still, it can still be fun and have that same I don't know. It would be interesting to see how they how they build on that. Yeah.
Camden Bernatz (00:17:03) - I mentioned this in the episode with Kevin, but I really like the. One of my favorite lines is just like it can turn into one night stand or you can turn it into two nightstands. I think I just botched that line, but basically using the nightstand can mean like, yeah, one thing.
Camden Bernatz (00:17:18) - Or it's like they're buying two nightstands together, they live together, they're having a life together. And that was kind of more that was my not the one night stand. I'd never started there. But Tinder, in a very traditional, slow-moving, very vanilla way, turned into two nightstands for me and my wife and having a house together now. And so anyways, I like that line, but yeah, interesting. And I don't expect you to like, yeah, perfectly predict how this is going to affect things. But that just kind of my I'm thinking I want to look through creative work with that lens more about like the effectiveness too, because I still can really appreciate really clever work. And I like it. And I kind of I understand why certain things win awards, and it's fun to kind of be in that space. But if you're a brand that's looking for help with your creative, you don't want to just have somebody coming to do something for your brand that they can go win an award on, but you're left holding the result of a, of a broken campaign, or that didn't affect your bottom line at all.
Camden Bernatz (00:18:11) - And so, yeah, it's something we should keep in mind in the industry. But anyways, general, like I want to pause for a minute if there's any other insights that came from the conversation or from the campaign itself, anything that, like, stood out to you to share or to talk about?
Shelby Traveller (00:18:25) - So we talked about a lot of the different visual elements, but I think they also had a lot of like simple copy, like just headline, just the logo. And I think they did a really good job of letting the copy tell the story. I think a lot of times as companies, we try to tell more and they or we try to show more and they just kind of left it open. They said, this is our line. And it was super clever and everyone got it. But then from there, I liked that they kind of allowed for that space to like, kind of imagine what it would be like. I'm trying to remember some of the specific lines that I've seen pertaining to this campaign, but I feel like all the ones I read I like, they got a smile out of me.
Shelby Traveller (00:19:10) - And so I love that they let they let the copy do its job. They didn't try to overcrowd it with other things. They didn't try to show and tell.
Camden Bernatz (00:19:18) - Yeah, yeah, they definitely spoke to.
Camden Bernatz (00:19:20) - Like, more of the Gen Z audience of some of the verbiage, like someone who passes the friend test was one of those that's kind of the passing their friend test is a thing proving astrology right? or someone who gets your for you page, that kind of stuff. Like that's very Gen Z online TikTok kind of speak. And so yeah. And little go back to we talked about the effectiveness. I'm here on the mischief USA the work sample page and I should call out they do have some statistics here. Apparently this led to a 10% increase in new users and account re-activations. Or at least they're attributing it to that. And then a dramatic increase in engagement among their new target, which was Gen Z women. They don't give numbers behind that exactly. But they say a dramatic increase in engagement.
Camden Bernatz (00:20:03) - So we'll take their word for that. It sounds like it did, in their mind, have an effect, at least in the short term. So which I feel like. And again, I'm not an expert on dating apps, but my. Of the industry is it is a little bit harder sometimes to get women to engage with it. It's just men are just thirsty swiping for anybody they can. Right. And women are a little more selective or they don't want they're they're a little more hesitant or cautious. And so and again, I'm years removed from being on Tinder myself. But I know at the time I had heard that there was like way more men on the app than female. So, like, there's the pool was a lot smaller of females on there than men. And so that was something I'm sure they were looking at trying to get more of. And it says here that that was one of their target audiences with Gen Z women. So good for them seems to appeal to them.
Shelby Traveller (00:20:49) - I guess I'd be interested to see like the different like demographics of those people like their ages, their orientation, their where they're living.
Camden Bernatz (00:20:59) - People don't want to share that user data though, right? Like a like it's like Spotify rap, but like a Tinder rap like this is on people. You swipe and it's like your your success percentage of matches, whatever. This is, how many conversations you had started or that you got ghosted on. This was the longest conversation you had with somebody. That'd be fun.
Shelby Traveller (00:21:17) - Actually, it would be. It would be interesting to see or even just the switch in data just from before the campaign and after the campaign. I know we talked about how this campaign really illustrated that Tinder can be whatever people want it to be, whether they want that to be a one-night stand or a long-term friendship, not even a relationship. And so rather than seeing kind of how many friendships were formed and like how many people met, it would be interesting to see what they wanted out of it from before versus like how that's shifted and changed, whether before it was just people who wanted to have a one-night hookup, you know, versus after the campaign.
Shelby Traveller (00:21:56) - If there was opportunity for people realizing that there was more to it. With the art direction, though, and kind of all of the interesting elements we talked about, I wouldn't anticipate it being more traditional. Yeah, I think it would be less traditional post-campaign.
Camden Bernatz (00:22:13) - But when they're reaching Gen Z, which is more like the the younger generation now is less less conservative and traditional and, you know, rigid in what relationship is then older generations would so like it's definitely art direction copy everything is targeting that audience more but also saw dating apps. Right. Like I don't think there's a lot of 55-plus-year-olds swiping on Tinder and stuff like there's probably some, but it's definitely a younger approach in the game. So I would agree with you there. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. So I, I appreciate your insight. Any any last takeaways, anything that you want to share as far as anything we should learn or that the industry should take away from this campaign?
Shelby Traveller (00:22:56) - I think don't be afraid to do something that's different.
Shelby Traveller (00:22:59) - I really like how they had an original idea, and they realized we can't change consumers minds like they think what they think, and it's not our job to change what they think, but we can own what we already own and shift it in a way that benefits us both. And, I don't know, I, I love campaigns that are so cohesive in the fact that they find one little insight and they do everything in their power to blow that up. And I think this campaign did a good job of that. Rather than trying to do too much, they found the one thing they wanted to own, and they went for it. And they did it in a fun way, in a bold way, in a way that was relevant in their language, in their imagery. And they're down to like, their color and font choice. I just I think they did a really good job in making it something that that is relevant to Gen Z and that a lot of people can relate to.
Camden Bernatz (00:23:50) - Yeah, I appreciate you saying that because that's I'm going to make a little plug for EKR.
Camden Bernatz (00:23:55) - This is our EKR podcast. And I haven't done this a lot because I want to make sure we're definitely focusing on the clever marketing moves that we want to talk about and learn from. But but, EKR, we we do this stuff. And so if you're interested in I like that you mentioned the insight because I think that's something we can really sell. We separate ourselves with a lot of times from other agencies is we don't want to give clients something that looks nice or that is just, you know, another way to just put something out there. So you stay in the public light and people are seeing you like that's all well and good. But mentioning that insight, if you can identify a human truth or a perception about your brand or any kind of actionable insight and then build upon that, that's where effective marketing comes in, as opposed to just pretty looking images or fun little one timelines that get forgotten is it's identifying an insight. And so if you listening to this are someone who either needs help with that or, you know, if someone needs help with that, EKR can definitely help you out with that.
Camden Bernatz (00:24:56) - Whether we're partnering with you as an agency and going in on a project with someone, or if you're a brand that is looking for an agency like ours. But yeah, very, very important to identify that, that comes in the creative brief stage. Right. And so before you get into art direction, before you get into headlines and whatnot. It is insighting. What is, what is the the ins, the human truth, the human insight that we are trying to act on or capitalize on or address or solve. And then when you have that brief in place, solutions can come from that and you can know that it's going you can say that's a good idea or a bad idea, not just based on your subjectivity. Like, I like that picture or that line makes me laugh, but okay, that is going to be effective to solve that. That is that is on brand and that is on strategy.
Shelby Traveller (00:25:40) - And with that, you can tell that they had a team of strategists that cared enough to do the research.
Shelby Traveller (00:25:46) - I think a lot of times we can get so hung up on what we're showing that we that we can forget that it's so important to find out why we're doing it. And I think that you can tell from this campaign that they had a team of strategists that were interested in the why behind it all, and they spent the time doing that research so that when they did find something interesting, they had faith in it, and they had trust in it enough that they could come up with such a cool creative concept.
Camden Bernatz (00:26:12) - Agreed. Amen. Well said. Well, thank you, Shelby, for being with us today. For those who want to, get in touch with you or see what you're up to, what's the best way for them to find you?
Shelby Traveller (00:26:22) - LinkedIn. Okay.
Camden Bernatz (00:26:24) - Which is in your name? Shelby traveller. Two L's. Right.
Shelby Traveller (00:26:27) - Two L's. Yes.
Camden Bernatz (00:26:28) - Nice.
Shelby Traveller (00:26:29) - Perfect.
Camden Bernatz (00:26:29) - Two L's. All right. Thanks for listening to the. Yeah, thanks for being here. Thank you to the listeners.
Camden Bernatz (00:26:34) - As always, stay tuned for more episodes. And, and if you haven't listened, if you've listening to us for a while and haven't hit the subscribe button, what are you waiting for? Just more good stuff and you don't want to miss it. So hit that subscribe button, share it with a friend. And like I said before, our new email address is brandspodcast@ekragency.com and we will look for your messages if they come through and hopefully respond to them. Maybe chase down some different work that you want to see featured. We can we can get someone on the podcast. So see you next time and keep your brains and branding campaigns clever and effective.
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