participantTwo:(6600-7440): Infamous Indy. participantOne:(6600-7420): Infamous Indy. participantOne:(7420-14500): Presents the digging up billing your project featuring, the Texas crime travelers and Travis Thompson I'm. participantTwo:(7440-9360): Presents the digging up deliver contra. participantTwo:(10400-14060): Featuring, the Texas crime travelers in Travis Thompson. participantTwo:(14180-15740): I'm, your host, Jill. participantOne:(14500-15100): Your host. participantTwo:(18640-22620): In the annals of American crime few figures with them as large as John. participantOne:(18670-21210): In the annals of American crime few figures. participantOne:(21210-25230): Loom as large as John builder a mastermind bank Heights. participantTwo:(23480-25260): A mastermind bank Heights. participantOne:(25270-31990): His name became synonymous with brazen robberies and daring escapes questions of whether he escape an FBI. participantTwo:(25300-31960): His name became synonymous brazen robberies and daring escapes questions of whether he escape an FBI. participantTwo:(31960-35520): Ambush and the whereabouts of his buried loop persevere. participantOne:(31990-35730): Ambush and the whereabouts of his buried loop persevered. participantOne:(36530-38330): History offers one account. participantTwo:(36760-38300): Story offers one account. participantOne:(38530-40450): But there are whispers that tell us many. participantTwo:(38560-39620): But there are whispers. participantTwo:(39620-40340): They tell us money. participantOne:(41700-44580): Join us as we go digging up cylinder. participantTwo:(41720-44560): Join us as we go digging up cylinder. participantTwo:(47040-47260): <unk>. participantTwo:(48930-51130): Everybody welcome to the digging up. participantOne:(48960-51560): Everybody welcome to the digging up builder. participantTwo:(51130-52570): Villager podcast I'm. participantOne:(51560-52580): Podcast I'm. participantTwo:(52570-59870): Your host, Joe, blow and we're here on the code three and with me are my friends and courts, Robert Thompson. participantOne:(52580-61780): Your host joy O and we're here on code three and with me are my friends and courts Thompson tiles Stewart full Moore. participantTwo:(59910-61790): Todd Hiles steward Fillmore. participantOne:(61820-62520): Hey, guys. participantTwo:(61830-62450): Hey, guys. participantTwo:(62650-63810): Hey, <unk>. participantOne:(62680-63840): Hey, <unk>. participantOne:(64300-67940): Everybody Cinco Delilah today's <unk>. participantTwo:(64310-67070): Everybody Cinco tomorrow today. participantTwo:(67070-67950): <unk>. participantTwo:(68230-71810): We are Stewart coming right out. participantOne:(68240-71800): We are steward coming right out. participantOne:(71800-73180): You want to celebrate right away. participantTwo:(71810-73170): You want to celebrate right away. participantOne:(73180-75620): [laughter]. participantTwo:(73210-75330): [laughter]. participantTwo:(75390-75630): Oh. participantTwo:(76750-78910): Couple couple housekeeping things. participantOne:(76750-78910): Couple couple housekeeping things. participantTwo:(79010-79990): I'm first off. participantOne:(79010-79990): I'm first off. participantTwo:(80030-82130): Thanks for joining us and listening again. participantOne:(80030-82130): Thanks for joining us and listening again. participantTwo:(82270-84110): We're really excited to bring this to you. participantOne:(82270-84150): We're really excited to bring this to you. participantTwo:(84150-86830): Were working on this over multiple weeks. participantOne:(84210-86830): We're working on this over multiple weeks. participantOne:(86830-90600): Multiple months and we're spending a lot of hours together. participantTwo:(86830-90600): Multiple months and we're spending a lot of hours together. participantOne:(90640-95460): This crew you here on each broadcast and we we talk about a lot of things. participantTwo:(90640-95460): This crew that you hear on each broadcast and we we talk about a lot of things. participantTwo:(95460-98900): There's there's, a lot of a fax and figures. participantOne:(95460-98900): There's there's, a lot of a fax and figures. participantOne:(98900-108120): And things that we think you should know as our listeners that we can't, we can't wait to share with you, but we have to do it in a in a very orderly fashion or else, right. participantTwo:(98900-108120): And things that we think you should know as our listeners that we can't, we can't wait to share with you, but we have to do it in a in a very orderly fashion or else, right. participantTwo:(108160-121980): It just turns into kind of a lot of info, but not a lot of structure and so one of the main things that we love to talk about is this report that we're gonna present tonight at least the first argument of this report. participantOne:(108160-121980): It just turns into kind of a lot of info, but not a lot of structure and so one of the main things that we love to talk about is this report that we're gonna present tonight at least the first argument of this report. participantTwo:(122160-122860): This report. participantOne:(122160-122860): This report. participantTwo:(122860-129780): We call the Fillmore report and if you can take it on who wrote the report a Stewart was the author. participantOne:(122860-129780): We call the Fillmore report and if you can take it on who wrote the report a Stewart was the author. participantTwo:(130270-133730): This he's gonna tell us the story about how this report came about. participantOne:(130270-133730): This he's gonna tell us the story about how this report came about. participantOne:(134270-140750): And also we're gonna go into maybe one of the major question marks on whether or not. participantTwo:(134270-140750): And also we're gonna go into maybe one of the major question marks on whether or not. participantTwo:(140750-146390): John villager was killed the night at the bar graph these are the kind of things that we want you to hear you. participantOne:(140750-146390): John villager was killed the night at the bar graph these are the kind of things that we want you to hear you. participantTwo:(146390-159730): Make your own determination we're gonna do our best to give both sides of the story both arguments whether it's whether we think Stewart's report just brings up questions or Stewart's report answers those questions. participantOne:(146390-159730): Make your own determination we're gonna do our best to give both sides of the story both arguments whether it's whether we think Stewart's report just brings up questions or Stewart's report answers those questions. participantOne:(159770-162630): We leave it kind of up to our listeners and reviewers to decide. participantTwo:(159770-162630): We leave it kind of up to our listeners and reviewers to decide. participantOne:(162630-166130): So again, Facebook tick tock. participantTwo:(162630-166090): So again, Facebook tick tock. participantTwo:(166150-167250): You too that's. participantOne:(166170-167250): You too that's. participantTwo:(167250-171250): Where we're at we also have a paper on account and we're also? participantOne:(167250-171250): Where we're at we also have a paper on account and we're also? participantOne:(171250-174150): Um, we're gonna be on obviously all the podcast. participantTwo:(171250-174150): Um, we're gonna be on obviously all the podcast. participantTwo:(174250-180350): Um, but go follow us there, especially the YouTube channel will have the visuals that you'll probably hear about today. participantOne:(174250-180350): Um, but go follow us there, especially the YouTube channel will have the visuals that you'll probably hear about today. participantTwo:(180350-182450): So if you wanna go see pictures and stuff. participantOne:(180350-182450): So if you wanna go see pictures and stuff. participantOne:(182450-185290): I'm gonna be sharing the screen as we're kind of talking about this report. participantTwo:(182450-185290): I'm gonna be sharing the screen as we're kind of talking about this report. participantTwo:(185590-191870): And again, the reason we're doing this is we want to have a following. participantOne:(185590-191870): And again, the reason we're doing this is we want to have a following. participantTwo:(191870-199810): We wanna have our community support us as we go through possibly an examination or an autopsy again. participantOne:(191870-199810): We wanna have our community support us as we go through possibly an examination or an autopsy again. participantOne:(200870-211910): So we that's kind of I've always said that patron is really important we're gonna need followers and people who believe in our calls to to help us out financially eventually, right now, right now. participantTwo:(200870-211910): So we that's kind of I've always said that patron is really important we're gonna need followers and people who believe in our calls to to help us out financially eventually, right now, right now. participantOne:(211910-215890): We're, just we're just asking questions and creating conspiracies and talk about that stuff. participantTwo:(211910-215890): We're, just we're just asking questions and creating conspiracies and talk about that stuff. participantTwo:(215890-216750): Which is the great stuff? participantOne:(215890-216750): Which is the great stuff? participantTwo:(217270-220070): But um, we could use your support eventually one day. participantOne:(217270-220070): But um, we could use your support eventually one day. participantOne:(220150-222210): This isn't like another podcast either. participantTwo:(220170-222210): This isn't like another podcast either. participantOne:(222890-227550): I think we set it to each other on how many times guys like three or four times this week? participantTwo:(222890-227530): I think we set it to each other on how many times guys like three or four times this week? participantOne:(228350-229250): Stay alone. participantTwo:(228390-229250): Stay alone. participantOne:(229530-230210): This is yeah. participantTwo:(229530-230210): This is yeah. participantTwo:(230210-232270): Yeah, this is a different kind of podcast. participantOne:(230210-232490): Yeah, this is a different kind of podcast. participantOne:(232670-239910): We are legitimate in many ways, but I think one of the most important things is that Todd. participantTwo:(232820-240800): We are legitimate in many ways, but I think one of the most important things is that. and Stuart. participantOne:(239950-247140): And Stuart are both licensed private investigators currently and are working currently on their own cases. participantTwo:(240840-247140): Are both licensed private investigators currently and are working currently on their own cases. participantTwo:(247220-248240): Yep, Stewart. participantOne:(247220-248240): Yep, Stewart. participantTwo:(248240-252560): Told me this week, some of them have to do with autopsies, which is what we're talking about tonight. participantOne:(248240-252560): Told me this week, some of them have to do with autopsies, which is what we're talking about tonight. participantOne:(252780-255420): It just happen to be an autopsy from 1934. participantTwo:(252780-255200): It just happen to be an autopsy from 1934. participantOne:(256080-258740): And then, uh, you know, Travis as well. participantTwo:(256120-258740): And then, uh, you know, Travis as well. participantOne:(258780-260840): Your your law enforcement officer as well. participantTwo:(258780-260840): Your your law enforcement officer as well. participantOne:(260840-264000): So here we go, we are legitimate I'm a former TV report. participantTwo:(260840-264000): So here we go, we are legitimate I'm a former TV report. participantTwo:(264000-264840): I'm looking for fax. participantOne:(264000-264840): I'm looking for fax. participantOne:(264840-266020): I love investigating. participantTwo:(264840-265960): I love investigating. participantOne:(266640-268580): So here we go folks. participantTwo:(266640-268460): So here we go folks. participantOne:(269380-271280): Episode three Stewart. participantTwo:(269400-271280): Episode three Stewart. participantOne:(272080-274480): This report that we reference. participantTwo:(272080-274480): This report that we reference. participantTwo:(274540-278400): Yes, I show it to people because it's to me. participantOne:(274540-278360): Yes, I show it to people because it's to me. participantOne:(278560-283460): It's the most visually appealing thing that makes sense to me on why. participantTwo:(278560-283460): It's the most visually appealing thing that makes sense to me on why. participantTwo:(283780-289600): John injured not being buried in Crown Hill and somebody else was standing in that day is legitimate. participantOne:(283780-289670): John injured not being buried in Crown Hill and somebody else was standing in that day is legitimate. participantTwo:(289640-290560): That that theory. participantOne:(289670-290550): That that theory. participantOne:(290550-293710): Could happen and certainly a legitimate question. participantTwo:(290560-293680): Could happen and question. participantTwo:(293740-301140): Ask without a job and it's just I think I think you laid out like we're going to court just like. participantOne:(293750-319530): Ask without a doubt and it's just I think I think you laid out like we're going to court just like a you know, and I think I think I said you know, the last podcast that just a as a the habit if you will of of being in law enforcement where the standard of you know, winning a case is is beyond reasonable doubt you end up a formulating. participantTwo:(302040-308720): You know, and I think I think I said you know, the last podcast that just a as a, um, a habit. participantTwo:(308760-319530): If you will of of being in law enforcement where the standard of you know, winning a case is is beyond a reasonable doubt you end up a formulating. participantTwo:(319530-337710): All your investigations with the mindset of you know, does this piece of evidence or you know, does chasing this lead is this gonna prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt and so that that that really is always in the back of your mind is how you know this thing will play in court? participantOne:(319530-323500): All your investigations with the mindset of it. participantOne:(323500-337700): You know, does this piece of evidence or you know, does chasing this lead is this gonna prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt and so that that that really is always in the back of your mind is how you know this thing will play in court? participantOne:(337700-339780): So, um, that's. participantTwo:(337710-339790): So, um, that's. participantOne:(339780-341880): Just that's just how I wrote this thing. participantTwo:(339790-341850): Just that's just how I wrote this thing. participantTwo:(341850-343710): And how you know how it came about. participantOne:(341880-343720): And how you know how it came about. participantTwo:(345280-346540): It was for a purpose. participantOne:(345290-346550): It was for a purpose. participantTwo:(346580-350180): You were you thought that this might be used in court. participantOne:(346590-350190): You were you thought that this might be used in court. participantTwo:(350640-352560): Well, because Travis you guys went to court. participantOne:(350650-352570): Well, because Travis you guys went to court. participantOne:(353740-354880): Yes, that's, correct. participantTwo:(353740-354920): Yes, that's, correct. participantOne:(354920-358900): Well, when you guys went to court were you able to present the report. participantTwo:(354960-358900): Well, when you guys went to court were you able to present the report. participantTwo:(361000-367500): Uh, no, I mean, uh, unfortunately, it never got to the stage of presenting any kind of evidence. participantOne:(361000-367500): Uh, no, I mean, uh, unfortunately, it never got to the stage of presenting any kind of evidence. participantOne:(367600-373060): Any kind of argument as to you know why we were seeking the examination. participantTwo:(367600-373060): Any kind of argument as to you know why we were seeking the examination. participantTwo:(373360-387220): Um, the way that the request for this examination was filed a simply allowed the cemetery Crown Hill in Indianapolis to just deny it out right with no reason. participantOne:(373360-387220): Um, the way that the request for this examination was filed a simply allowed the cemetery Crown Hill in Indianapolis to just deny it out right with no reason. participantOne:(387220-388460): No justification. participantTwo:(387220-388460): No justification. participantTwo:(388720-393580): No, nothing they could just say, uh, we choose not to do this. participantOne:(388740-395000): No, nothing they could just say, uh, we choose not to do this and we don't have to tell you why. participantTwo:(393780-395000): We don't have to tell you why. participantTwo:(395040-397020): And that's exactly what happened. participantOne:(395040-397000): And that's exactly what happened. participantTwo:(398380-399420): To the part even. participantOne:(398380-399420): To the part even. participantOne:(400360-400760): At all. participantTwo:(400380-400760): At all. participantTwo:(401540-403160): So this this. participantOne:(401550-403150): So this this. participantTwo:(404100-405320): Yeah, arguments only. participantOne:(404170-405310): Yeah, arguments only. participantOne:(405310-406970): And then being told denied. participantTwo:(405320-406980): And then being told denied. participantOne:(407530-410370): Well, well, no, the the, I mean, there there were no arguments. participantTwo:(407540-410360): Well, well, no, the the, I mean, there there were no arguments. participantTwo:(410420-413180): The only argument was a Crown Hill. participantOne:(410430-413170): The only argument was a Crown Hill. participantOne:(413210-420770): Do you consent as you know as the cemetery to this examination they said no, um, the judge? participantTwo:(413220-420760): Do you consent as you know as the cemetery to this examination they said no, um, the judge? participantTwo:(420920-423840): A frankly kind of braided them. participantOne:(420930-423810): A frankly kind of braided them. participantOne:(423950-429020): Uh, you know for their their decision, but said legally there's, nothing. participantTwo:(423960-429020): Uh, you know for their their decision, but said legally there's, nothing. participantOne:(429020-431300): I can do what you mean braided them. participantTwo:(429020-431300): I can do what you mean braided them. participantOne:(431920-433840): Uh, you could tell that. participantTwo:(431940-433840): Uh, you could tell that. participantTwo:(433840-443260): The judge was not happy with Crown Hill in this whole proceeding that he felt that you know, the family or at least let me put it. participantOne:(433840-443260): The judge was not happy with Crown Hill in this whole proceeding that he felt that you know, the family or at least let me put it. participantTwo:(443260-457090): This way that the next of kin there were some dissenting family members, but that at least the next of kin wanted to do this, but the judge himself even couldn't take it to the next step of at least list. participantOne:(443260-457090): This way that the next of kin there were some dissenting family members, but that at least the next of kin wanted to do this, but the judge himself even couldn't take it to the next step of at least list. participantTwo:(457090-459030): Listen to why they want to do it. participantOne:(457090-459030): Listen to why they want to do it. participantOne:(459430-465150): Uh, he just had to say a Crown Hill says no and so we're done that's as far as it goes. participantTwo:(459430-465150): Uh, he just had to say a Crown Hill says no and so we're done that's as far as it goes. participantTwo:(466210-469590): Yeah, and another interesting thing as soon as court was over with. participantOne:(466210-469590): Yeah, and another interesting thing as soon as court was over with. participantTwo:(470350-473890): Crown Hill attorneys ran. participantOne:(470350-473830): Crown Hill attorneys ran. participantTwo:(474230-476550): They got A I mean, they went out of the side door. participantOne:(474230-476550): They got A I mean, they went out of the side door. participantOne:(476550-477130): They went down. participantTwo:(476550-477130): They went down. participantTwo:(477130-478390): They didn't wait for an elevator. participantOne:(477130-478390): They didn't wait for an elevator. participantTwo:(478390-479590): They took steps down. participantOne:(478390-479590): They took steps down. participantTwo:(480290-483210): Um, we me and my father, Mike Thompson. participantOne:(480290-483210): Um, we me and my father, Mike Thompson. participantOne:(483210-491090): And walked out with Stewart at we were met with a room full of reporters and Crown Hill group left. participantTwo:(483210-491090): And walked out with Stewart at we were met with a room full of reporters and Crown Hill group left. participantOne:(491210-491910): Yep, that's. participantTwo:(491210-491910): Yep, that's. participantTwo:(491950-493030): Absolutely correct. participantOne:(491950-493030): Absolutely correct. participantTwo:(493230-499810): In fact, you know, I you know over the course of a of a 2929 year carrier with the FBI. participantOne:(493230-499810): In fact, you know, I you know over the course of a of a 2929 year carrier with the FBI. participantOne:(500150-501730): I was involved in. participantTwo:(500150-501730): I was involved in. participantOne:(501890-509450): I I really couldn't put a number on how many times I was in various court, proceedings trials, hearings of all kinds? participantTwo:(501890-509510): I I really couldn't put a number on how many times I was in various court, proceedings trials, hearings of all kinds? participantTwo:(509990-521550): Um, you know with with attorneys from both the government side and you know the defense attorney side and I've, never seen lawyers more nervous. participantOne:(509990-521550): Um, you know with with attorneys from both the government side and you know the defense attorney side and I've, never seen lawyers more nervous. participantOne:(521550-527170): And more uncomfortable being in a situation that the lawyers representing Crown Hill. participantTwo:(521550-527170): And more uncomfortable being in a situation that the lawyers representing Crown Hill. participantTwo:(527170-536070): That day, but they looked so they looked scared, they look like they would rather be any place on the planet then where they were. participantOne:(527170-536070): That day, but they looked so they looked scared, they look like they would rather be any place on the planet then where they were. participantOne:(536510-557160): Um, and there was a, um, an camera hearing that was meaning that there was a a a the lawyers and the judge talked outside of the court room prior to the hearing a when they came back from that here from from that that meeting a you know in in private. participantTwo:(536510-557160): Um, and there was a, um, an camera hearing that was meaning that there was a a a the lawyers and the judge talked outside of the court room prior to the hearing a when they came back from that here from from that that meeting a you know in in private. participantOne:(558000-560180): Uh, you could tell the judge. participantTwo:(558000-560180): Uh, you could tell the judge. participantOne:(560180-565080): Was not happy you could tell that the Crown a Crown Hill loggers. participantTwo:(560180-565080): Was not happy you could tell that the Crown a Crown Hill loggers. participantTwo:(565080-576180): Were uncomfortable and uh, I just, I I think the judge was just frankly flabbergasted as for all of us as to why. participantOne:(565080-576180): Were uncomfortable and uh, I just, I I think the judge was just frankly flabbergasted as for all of us as to why. participantOne:(576180-576360): Don't. participantTwo:(576180-576360): Don't. participantOne:(576360-583560): We at least here, you know, what's behind this, but because of the way that our attorney in that case filed it. participantTwo:(576360-583560): We at least here, you know, what's behind this, but because of the way that our attorney in that case filed it. participantOne:(584500-586640): Uh, this request for an examination. participantTwo:(584500-586640): Uh, this request for an examination. participantTwo:(587400-600510): A under the law that's as far as it went all because Crown Hill could just say no, we had to have the, um, uh, K of of the the cemetery, the lawyer. participantOne:(587400-600510): A under the law that's as far as it went all because Crown Hill could just say no, we had to have the, um, uh, K of of the the cemetery, the lawyer. participantTwo:(600630-612570): Okay, it didn't have to go that's as far as it went was your lawyer just incompetent and just didn't know there was another route to take that was not involving Crown Hill wouldn't <unk>. participantOne:(600630-612570): Okay, it didn't have to go that's as far as it went was your lawyer just incompetent and just didn't know there was another route to take that was not involving Crown Hill wouldn't <unk>. participantTwo:(612570-613070): I won't go. participantOne:(612570-613070): I won't go. participantOne:(613070-618160): So, so far as to say incompetent, but just just had not really looked at it. participantTwo:(613070-618160): So, so far as to say incompetent, but just just had not really looked at it. participantTwo:(618160-628980): The way I think it should have been looked at which which I think if you read the various ways you can request an examination it should've been requested as an autopsy. participantOne:(618160-628980): The way I think it should have been looked at which which I think if you read the various ways you can request an examination it should've been requested as an autopsy. participantOne:(629580-637800): Um, you can you can request an examination for various reasons one of which being to move the body to another a facility. participantTwo:(629580-637800): Um, you can you can request an examination for various reasons one of which being to move the body to another a facility. participantTwo:(638380-642580): Um, and and and then for an exit for an autopsy rather. participantOne:(638380-642620): Um, and and and then for an exit for an autopsy rather. participantOne:(643060-644640): I forget the exact. participantTwo:(643060-644640): I forget the exact. participantOne:(644680-650660): Um, uh, proceeding or the the what code it was under that. participantTwo:(644680-650660): Um, uh, proceeding or the the what code it was under that. participantTwo:(650660-657980): Our lawyer requested, but it was a the one that she chose was the absolutely most difficult way to have it done. participantOne:(650660-657980): Our lawyer requested, but it was a the one that she chose was the absolutely most difficult way to have it done. participantTwo:(658880-662920): And her argument was if you read the statute that she filed it under. participantOne:(658880-662920): And her argument was if you read the statute that she filed it under. participantOne:(663780-675680): You only really had to have the the request of the next of kin and but but for whatever reason she felt that that we needed to have the entire family onboard. participantTwo:(663780-675680): You only really had to have the the request of the next of kin and but but for whatever reason she felt that that we needed to have the entire family onboard. participantOne:(676120-681560): Um, and and the deliver families like any other family, uh, people crazy. participantTwo:(676120-681560): Um, and and the deliver families like any other family, uh, people crazy. participantOne:(681640-686560): Engines and so you never actually gonna have a 00% agreement on anything. participantTwo:(681640-686560): Engines and so you never actually gonna have a 00% agreement on anything. participantOne:(686600-697940): So it was a fools error to begin with a thinking that that everybody in the family was gonna be onboard with this thing to begin with and I don't even think the judge would've been swayed by that. participantTwo:(686600-697940): So it was a fools error to begin with a thinking that that everybody in the family was gonna be onboard with this thing to begin with and I don't even think the judge would've been swayed by that. participantTwo:(697940-708540): Frankly, Ah, because you could tell that the judge actually was put out with Crown Hill and did not a understand why you know why why. participantOne:(697940-708540): Frankly, Ah, because you could tell that the judge actually was put out with Crown Hill and did not a wonder stand why you know why don't why. participantOne:(708540-713020): Don't you guys do this or at least let's get to the next level of talking about why? participantTwo:(708540-713020): Don't you guys do this or at least let's get to the next level of talking about why? participantTwo:(713670-722310): Uh, there are family members that want to do this and they never even got to that and just for the listeners stake this was worldwide news. participantOne:(713670-722310): Uh, there are family members that want to do this and they never even got to that and just for the listeners stake this was worldwide news. participantTwo:(722350-723790): It was National news. participantOne:(722350-723790): It was National news. participantOne:(723830-728790): People were really interested in this and they really wanted to hear from Mike and Travis about why. participantTwo:(723830-728810): People were really interested in this and they really wanted to hear from Mike and Travis about why. participantTwo:(730390-731510): An opportunity. participantOne:(730390-731510): An opportunity. participantOne:(734590-736970): For Crown onboard. participantTwo:(734590-736990): For Crown onboard. participantTwo:(737750-738310): Me. participantOne:(737750-738310): Me. participantOne:(739630-742830): And Paul <unk>, which was a producer. participantTwo:(739630-742850): And Paul <unk>, which was a producer. participantTwo:(743150-747470): When we're working with the history channel with connect contacts are trying to get the show going? participantOne:(743170-747470): When we're working with the history channel with connect contacts are trying to get the show going? participantOne:(748500-749580): I had a meeting with them. participantTwo:(748500-749580): I had a meeting with them. participantOne:(749580-750780): They're completely onboard. participantTwo:(749580-750780): They're completely onboard. participantOne:(750780-757160): Because they're like we do exterminations all the time you know, we moved bodies there's, not a problem. participantTwo:(750780-757100): Because they're like we do exterminations all the time you know, we moved bodies there's, not a problem. participantOne:(757840-759540): And the argument was there. participantTwo:(757840-759540): And the argument was there. participantTwo:(759540-764500): We're gonna disturb other plots around John's, but if we do it all the time. participantOne:(759540-764500): We're gonna disturb other plots around John's, but if we do it all the time. participantTwo:(764940-766600): Why is a problem also? participantOne:(764960-766600): Why is a problem also? participantTwo:(767850-773570): Um, Crown Hill hire, private investigators to investigate me Stewart. participantOne:(767850-773570): Um, Crandall hire private investigators to investigate me Stewart. participantTwo:(773610-774690): My father. participantOne:(773610-774690): My father. participantTwo:(775250-776990): Um, which was kind of odd. participantOne:(775250-776990): Um, which was kind of odd. participantOne:(777350-787130): And then again, this is after the suppose it F P I showed up and took, um, copies of the folder and documents. participantTwo:(777350-787130): And then again, this is after the suppose it F P I showed up and took, um, copies of the folder and documents. participantOne:(787130-788470): They had on the billing drive. participantTwo:(787130-788470): They had on the billing drive. participantOne:(789830-793610): Yeah, so Travis, your alleging there's. participantTwo:(789830-793650): Yeah, so Travis, your alleging there's. participantTwo:(794190-799150): Somebody involved with the FBI that was involved with Crown Hill during this time period. participantOne:(794190-799150): Somebody involved with the FBI that was involved with Crown Hill during this time period. participantOne:(799410-801970): Yeah, so I don't know the exact date. participantTwo:(799430-801970): Yeah, so I don't know the exact date. participantOne:(801970-807470): I know it's what day it was on a Monday suppose my the person I was talking to was high Crown Hill, which. participantTwo:(801970-807470): I know it's what day it was on a Monday suppose my the person I was talking to was high Crown Hill, which. participantTwo:(808260-809340): Basically disappeared. participantOne:(808260-809340): Basically disappeared. participantOne:(809380-809620): They're. participantTwo:(809380-809620): They're. participantOne:(809620-811160): No longer working there. participantTwo:(809620-811160): No longer working there. participantTwo:(811880-817400): Said that the FBI one FBI agent showed up identified himself as such with bad. participantOne:(811880-817400): Said that the FBI one FBI agent showed up identified himself as such with bad. participantOne:(817400-820620): Identifications asked to fee the records. participantTwo:(817400-820780): Identifications asked to fee the records. participantTwo:(820940-822080): They took him back. participantOne:(820940-822080): They took him back. participantTwo:(822120-823520): He copied every record. participantOne:(822120-823520): He copied every record. participantTwo:(823520-824480): They had and left. participantOne:(823520-824480): They had and left. participantTwo:(825840-828920): On that Tuesday, the following day. participantOne:(825840-828900): On that Tuesday, the following day. participantOne:(829280-831580): They were no longer working with the project. participantTwo:(829280-831580): They were no longer working with the project. participantTwo:(831580-833560): And we're gonna fight us to <unk>. participantOne:(831580-833560): And we're gonna fight us to <unk>. participantTwo:(835000-837880): Is there a possibility to refile this through court again? participantOne:(835000-837880): Is there a possibility to refile this through court again? participantTwo:(838280-839660): Yes, it's it's. participantOne:(838280-839660): Yes, it's it's. participantTwo:(839700-840400): We can still do. participantOne:(839700-840400): We can still do. participantOne:(840400-843240): So yeah, wait a just try. participantTwo:(840400-843240): So yeah, wait a just try. participantOne:(843360-844240): Um, Stewart. participantTwo:(843360-844240): Um, Stewart. participantOne:(844240-850460): Would you say you you think the same thing that Travis is thinking or is there another no, I mean what what? participantTwo:(844240-850460): Would you say you you think the same thing that Travis is thinking or is there another no, I mean what what? participantOne:(850460-852980): Travis said is exactly how it happened. participantTwo:(850460-852980): Travis said is exactly how it happened. participantTwo:(853590-859950): Um, Crown Hill was cooperative the, um, they have been spoken to you know, by the producers. participantOne:(853610-859950): Um, Crown Hill was cooperative the, um, they have been spoken to you know, by the producers. participantOne:(860070-865190): Uh, we had the proper permits that needed to be done for this. participantTwo:(860090-865190): Uh, we had the proper permits that needed to be done for this. participantTwo:(865830-873790): Um, and then supposedly Crown Hill got visited by an FBI agent who a requested a what Travis. participantOne:(865830-873790): Um, and then supposedly Crown Hill got visited by an FBI agent who a requested a what Travis. participantTwo:(873790-876070): All their files or something every file. participantOne:(873790-876070): All their files or something every file. participantOne:(876070-878530): They had you know, relating to deliver. participantTwo:(876070-878530): They had you know, relating to deliver. participantOne:(878950-887670): Um, and then after that man, it it's when everything changed and uh, there was no more cooperation, huh. participantTwo:(878950-887670): Um, and then after that man, it it's when everything changed and uh, there was no more cooperation, huh. participantOne:(887670-890650): And that's when we found out you know, not only is there. participantTwo:(887670-890650): And that's when we found out you know, not only is there. participantOne:(890650-901970): No cooperation, but Hey, we're we're we're ready to go to War over this we're ready to go to to court and fight this as far as we need to fight it that this will not happen. participantTwo:(890650-901970): No cooperation, but Hey, we're we're we're ready to go to War over this we're ready to go to to court and fight this as far as we need to fight it that this will not happen. participantTwo:(902590-904230): The agent the agent. participantOne:(902590-904230): The agent the agent. participantOne:(904570-907970): So sorry was the agent who went there was it Jager Hoover the agent. participantTwo:(904570-907970): So sorry was the agent who went there was it Jager Hoover the agent. participantTwo:(908010-909290): [laughter]. participantOne:(908010-909290): [laughter]. participantTwo:(909330-913690): Well, that's, just kind of hard to do because it might have been a in may of 1972. participantOne:(909330-913690): Well, that's, just kind of hard to do because it might have been a in may of 1972. participantOne:(913690-919590): But Hey man, you never know it may have been like a trial just said it might have been a ghost that went there. participantTwo:(913690-919590): But Hey man, you never know it may have been like a trial just said it might have been a ghost that went there. participantOne:(919590-920870): [laughter], the paperwork. participantTwo:(919590-920870): [laughter], the paperwork. participantTwo:(921190-923190): Let me ask you Travis. participantOne:(921190-923190): Let me ask you Travis. participantTwo:(923230-926890): What when and Stuart we're in those files that you think that they look? participantOne:(923230-926890): What when and Stuart we're in those files that you think that they look? participantOne:(926930-928110): I I have no idea. participantTwo:(926930-928110): I I have no idea. participantTwo:(928110-928970): I can't imagine. participantOne:(928110-928970): I can't imagine. participantOne:(928970-930750): What kind of files that? participantTwo:(928970-930750): What kind of files that? participantTwo:(930790-942550): Uh, the cemetery would have other than maybe who who owns the the plot, you know, and maybe when the burial was, I I just can't imagine. participantOne:(930790-942550): Uh, the cemetery would have other than maybe who who owns the the plot, you know, and maybe when the burial was, I I just can't imagine. participantOne:(942590-945050): What what is what kind of files? participantTwo:(942590-945050): What what is what kind of files? participantTwo:(945050-948190): The cemetery has did they go ahead. participantOne:(945050-948190): The cemetery has did they go ahead. participantOne:(948190-948370): <unk>. participantTwo:(948190-948370): <unk>. participantOne:(948370-954390): Sorry, well, well the is the employees that work there said there's quite a bit of files, which is odd. participantTwo:(948370-954390): Sorry, well, well the is the employees that work there said there's quite a bit of files, which is odd. participantTwo:(955030-956450): But when we had our meeting. participantOne:(955030-956450): But when we had our meeting. participantOne:(956490-958550): None of these files were ever brought to us. participantTwo:(956490-958550): None of these files were ever brought to us. participantOne:(958590-958770): That's. participantTwo:(958590-958770): That's. participantTwo:(958770-959450): What I'm saying? participantOne:(958770-959450): What I'm saying? participantTwo:(959490-961450): Well, we never received this out and talked about. participantOne:(959490-961450): Well, we never received this out and talked about. participantTwo:(961450-966570): I mean, they knew that it was there's two feet of concrete port over top of a vault. participantOne:(961450-966570): I mean, they knew that it was there's two feet of concrete port over top of a vault. participantOne:(967030-968550): Um, he was buried in the wall. participantTwo:(967050-968550): Um, he was buried in the wall. participantTwo:(968550-973190): They knew all this information, but the one thing they couldn't answer is who put the concrete there. participantOne:(968550-973190): They knew all this information, but the one thing they couldn't answer is who put the concrete there. participantOne:(974160-977580): Now maybe the documents now the documents. participantTwo:(974160-977600): Now maybe the documents now the documents. participantTwo:(977900-989240): How I understood the President who I was having an, um, the meeting with had access to those files, but none of that was brought up, they knew this you know, this new this in advance? participantOne:(977900-989240): How I understood the President who I was having an, um, the meeting with had access to those files, but none of that was brought up, they knew this you know, this new this in advance? participantOne:(989240-990980): So we're coming to have a chat with them. participantTwo:(989240-990980): So we're coming to have a chat with them. participantOne:(991420-993460): You would've thought they brought that to the table. participantTwo:(991460-993440): You would've thought they brought that to the table. participantTwo:(995900-1001920): And just just just so just so the the viewers maybe have a just a little insight there. participantOne:(995920-1001920): And just just just so just so the the viewers maybe have a just a little insight there. participantTwo:(1002020-1003420): Travis is background. participantOne:(1002020-1003420): Travis is background. participantOne:(1003460-1004820): Is from that day. participantTwo:(1003460-1004820): Is from that day. participantOne:(1004860-1012240): Uh, right after the court hearing a that's out in the lobby just out from the court room a talking to the reporter. participantTwo:(1004860-1012260): Uh, right after the court hearing a that's out in the lobby just out from the court room a talking to the reporters. participantTwo:(1012620-1015900): Yes, also this isn't, the only FBI involvement. participantOne:(1012620-1015900): Yes, also this isn't, the only FBI involvement. participantTwo:(1015900-1020080): We had of them trying to stop something on the exact same case. participantOne:(1015900-1020080): We had of them trying to stop something on the exact same case. participantOne:(1020080-1027380): What we're talking about going to court on a my my father had had filed with the Indian state department of health? participantTwo:(1020080-1027380): What we're talking about going to court on a my my father had had filed with the Indian state department of health? participantTwo:(1027420-1029480): The estimation permit. participantOne:(1027420-1029480): The estimation permit. participantOne:(1031030-1037670): We had a fine statement sent to our attorney stating that the FBI had read reached out to them. participantTwo:(1031030-1037670): We had a fine statement sent to our attorney stating that the FBI had read reached out to them. participantTwo:(1037670-1041710): Multiple times asking them to stop issuing with permits. participantOne:(1037670-1041710): Multiple times asking them to stop issuing with permits. participantOne:(1043500-1045720): So what's, the FBI involvement. participantTwo:(1043500-1045720): So what's, the FBI involvement. participantOne:(1045720-1048120): Why are they wanting us to <unk>? participantTwo:(1045720-1048120): Why are they wanting us to <unk>? participantOne:(1048580-1048920): Why don't? participantTwo:(1048580-1048920): Why don't? participantOne:(1048920-1049700): We just ask them. participantTwo:(1048920-1049700): We just ask them. participantTwo:(1049700-1052380): Hey, Stuart, what you what do you think the FBI. participantOne:(1049700-1052380): Hey, Stuart, what you what do you think the FBI. participantTwo:(1052460-1052860): Do. participantOne:(1052460-1052860): Do. participantOne:(1054080-1055480): From from a real question. participantTwo:(1054080-1055480): From from a real question. participantOne:(1055480-1056000): Perspective. participantTwo:(1055480-1056000): Perspective. participantTwo:(1056440-1057060): Yeah, I'll. participantOne:(1056440-1057060): Yeah, I'll. participantTwo:(1057060-1062120): Give you the same answer that I gave Travis and Mike back in you know, a three years ago. participantOne:(1057060-1062120): Give you the same answer that I gave Travis and Mike back in you know, a three years ago. participantOne:(1062120-1062860): However, long ago. participantTwo:(1062120-1062860): However, long ago. participantOne:(1062860-1065980): It was A I can't imagine at all. participantTwo:(1062860-1065980): It was A I can't imagine at all. participantOne:(1065980-1071060): What jurisdiction it would be how they would legally be able to even do that? participantTwo:(1065980-1071060): What jurisdiction it would be how they would legally be able to even do that? participantTwo:(1071280-1075200): Uh, you know, we're talking about an 85 plus year case. participantOne:(1071280-1075200): Uh, you know, we're talking about an 85 plus year case. participantOne:(1076000-1084460): Uh, that, uh, you know when someone goes out and applies for this permit through the health department, which is one of the requirements to do this. participantTwo:(1076000-1084460): Uh, that, uh, you know when someone goes out and applies for this permit through the health department, which is one of the requirements to do this. participantOne:(1085020-1091340): Um, uh, the which is any citizens right to do especially a you know a family member. participantTwo:(1085020-1091340): Um, uh, the which is any citizens right to do especially a you know a family member. participantTwo:(1092170-1101610): Wow, how the the FBI would have any jurisdiction whatsoever to to call about this to inquire about it to do anything about it. participantOne:(1092170-1101610): Wow, how the the FBI would have any jurisdiction whatsoever to to call about this to inquire about it to do anything about it. participantTwo:(1101970-1104530): Is it's beyond my comprehension. participantOne:(1101970-1104530): Is it's beyond my comprehension. participantTwo:(1104570-1112270): I have no idea what under what authority that call would've been made and you know, Travis as we said here. participantOne:(1104570-1112270): I have no idea what under what authority that call would've been made and you know, Travis as we said here. participantOne:(1112270-1115470): I actually kind of forgot about that, but you're exactly right. participantTwo:(1112270-1115470): I actually kind of forgot about that, but you're exactly right. participantOne:(1115510-1126580): It was documented with our attorney that the, you know that the health department had been contacted by someone claiming to be in the FBI and requesting that this is not happened. participantTwo:(1115510-1126580): It was documented with our attorney that the, you know that the health department had been contacted by someone claiming to be in the FBI and requesting that this is not happened. participantOne:(1126580-1128460): That they did a disapprove. participantTwo:(1126580-1128460): That they did a disapprove. participantOne:(1128620-1131780): The the permit for this examination. participantTwo:(1128820-1131780): The the permit for this examination. participantTwo:(1132100-1136310): Yeah, so again, I said then at the time, uh, there there's a there. participantOne:(1132100-1136310): Yeah, so again, I said then at the time, uh, there there's a there. participantOne:(1136310-1136610): There's. participantTwo:(1136310-1136610): There's. participantOne:(1136610-1138570): No jurisdictional way. participantTwo:(1136610-1138570): No jurisdictional way. participantTwo:(1138570-1143490): I I'm aware of that they would have to to make this call or this request. participantOne:(1138570-1143490): I I'm aware of that they would have to to make this call or this request. participantTwo:(1143530-1149170): It was odd as the some of the local reporters even down mobile, Kentucky. participantOne:(1143530-1149170): It was odd as the some of the local reporters even down mobile, Kentucky. participantOne:(1149210-1150470): That I was talking to. participantTwo:(1149210-1150470): That I was talking to. participantTwo:(1151270-1155230): Had reached out to Chicago field office about this. participantOne:(1151270-1155230): Had reached out to Chicago field office about this. participantOne:(1155230-1170320): Why are you why the FBI looking into the case and they said this is what the reporter told me it was never published, but that the FBI will not comment on ongoing investigation, which is odd? participantTwo:(1155230-1170320): Why are you why the FBI looking into the case and they said this is what the reporter told me it was never published, but that the FBI will not comment on ongoing investigation, which is odd? participantOne:(1170360-1173600): If it's on and ongoing investigations right. participantTwo:(1170360-1173560): If it's on and ongoing investigations right. participantTwo:(1173780-1174740): Yeah, I've got my. participantOne:(1173780-1174740): Yeah, I've got my. participantOne:(1174780-1179600): I got my watch here and I'm about 90 years old here that that's where that's. participantTwo:(1174780-1179600): I got my watch here and I'm about 90 years old here that that's where that's. participantTwo:(1179600-1186560): How long you've been going exactly you know, the thing is if if in fact a you know, they got there, man? participantOne:(1179600-1186560): How long you've been going exactly you know, the thing is if if in fact a you know, they got there, man? participantTwo:(1187300-1190320): And it's a solid case then what what. participantOne:(1187300-1190320): And it's a solid case then what what. participantTwo:(1190320-1191100): What is there? participantOne:(1190320-1191100): What is there? participantTwo:(1191140-1192600): What not? participantOne:(1191140-1192600): What not? participantOne:(1192600-1202040): I I I said this before if this were my case if I were the case agent on this case, I would, if there's any doubts about it. participantTwo:(1192600-1202040): I I I said this before if this were my case if I were the case agent on this case, I would, if there's any doubts about it. participantTwo:(1202080-1206160): I'm wide open to doing whatever it takes to. participantOne:(1202080-1206140): I'm wide open to doing whatever it takes to. participantTwo:(1206600-1209040): Uh, definitely say absolutely. participantOne:(1206600-1209040): Uh, definitely say absolutely. participantTwo:(1209080-1211160): We got villager and here's. participantOne:(1209080-1211160): We got villager and here's. participantTwo:(1211160-1212100): How we approve it? participantOne:(1211160-1212100): How we approve it? participantOne:(1212180-1216100): Okay, a again, any doubts about it. participantTwo:(1212180-1216100): Okay, a again, any doubts about it. participantOne:(1216140-1219840): I'm wide open to any model testing let's. participantTwo:(1216140-1219840): I'm wide open to any model testing let's. participantTwo:(1219840-1221240): Do the most mater testing? participantOne:(1219840-1221240): Do the most mater testing? participantTwo:(1221240-1223940): We can let's get the most definitive answer possible. participantOne:(1221240-1223940): We can let's get the most definitive answer possible. participantOne:(1225100-1226420): I completely agree with you. participantTwo:(1225100-1226420): I completely agree with you. participantOne:(1226420-1226700): <unk>. participantTwo:(1226420-1226700): <unk>. participantOne:(1226860-1227280): Yep. participantTwo:(1226860-1229020): Yep, it's funny. participantOne:(1228040-1229020): It's funny. participantOne:(1229520-1231260): You know the darkness. participantTwo:(1229520-1231320): You know the darkness. participantTwo:(1231820-1236640): It is a has nowhere to hide when you sign light on it right. participantOne:(1231820-1236640): It is a has nowhere to hide when you sign light on it right. participantOne:(1236760-1247690): Yeah, the truth is the light and yeah, like you said why not just if you have nothing to hide then why not just prove it prove that you think you guys know, approve it. participantTwo:(1236780-1247690): Yeah, the truth is the light and yeah, like you said why not just if you have nothing to hide then why not just prove it prove that you think you guys know, approve it. participantOne:(1247730-1250490): [laughter], exactly. participantTwo:(1247730-1250490): [laughter], exactly. participantTwo:(1250630-1257890): Yeah, yeah, because again, like I said, if it's my case I don't want any doubts about it and if I if I made a mistake if it's wrong. participantOne:(1250630-1257890): Yeah, yeah, because again, like I said, if it's my case I don't want any doubts about it and if I if I made a mistake if it's wrong. participantTwo:(1257890-1258910): I want to know that. participantOne:(1257890-1258950): I want to know that. participantOne:(1259310-1266730): Um, and and if I can use the most modern techniques available because you know a science and and those kind of things are always advancing. participantTwo:(1259310-1266730): Um, and and if I can use the most modern techniques available because you know a science and and those kind of things are always advancing. participantOne:(1268500-1268720): Let's. participantTwo:(1268500-1268720): Let's. participantOne:(1268720-1270100): Do it let's let's open? participantTwo:(1268720-1270100): Do it let's let's open? participantOne:(1270100-1271680): It up the most modern. participantTwo:(1270100-1271680): It up the most modern. participantOne:(1271720-1273620): Uh, you know, techniques we can. participantTwo:(1271720-1273620): Uh, you know, techniques we can. participantOne:(1274970-1282290): Definitely and I have no ill will towards the FBI even though they supposedly try to reload this list. participantTwo:(1274970-1282290): Definitely and I have no ill will towards the FBI even though they supposedly try to reload this list. participantOne:(1282330-1285630): I mean, I personally don't have a of data against them. participantTwo:(1282330-1285670): I mean, I personally don't have a of data against them. participantOne:(1285950-1287970): Um, I just want the truth to come out. participantTwo:(1285950-1287970): Um, I just want the truth to come out. participantOne:(1288010-1294520): I mean, well, <unk>, they are worried about just because all the lower around Jager it's. participantTwo:(1288010-1299840): I mean, well, <unk>, they are worried about just because all the lower around Jager and some of the dirty stuff you did or they worried that this is just another thing that could come out here. participantOne:(1294520-1295300): All the dirty stuff. participantOne:(1295300-1299840): You did or they worried that this is just another thing that could come out here. participantOne:(1301280-1301980): 90 years. participantTwo:(1301280-1301920): 90 years. participantOne:(1301980-1302780): And. participantOne:(1303700-1321350): I mean they you know, they have their funding like think about this if you, if you test it and it, it turns out it's, right been wow that's, a bragging. and you know, I don't know how everybody feels about what's going on currently in our country, but it seems to me the FBI. participantTwo:(1303700-1321410): I mean, they you know, they have their funding like think about this if you, if you test it and it, it turns out it's, right been wow that's, a bragging. and uh, you know, I don't know how everybody feels about what's going on currently in our country, but it seems to me the FBI. participantOne:(1321350-1324150): I could use all the the positive public relations. participantTwo:(1321410-1324150): Could use all the the positive public relations. participantOne:(1324150-1329320): They could get at least from half the country and, um, you know, man. participantTwo:(1324150-1329310): They could get at least from half the country and, um, you know, man. participantTwo:(1329310-1338890): If you're, if you're able to reach out and say definitively, you know, with the most modern techniques available, we we got delivered back in the day of you know, and. participantOne:(1329320-1341220): If you, if you're able to reach out and say definitively, you know what the most modern techniques available we we got delivered back in the day of you know, and start from the rooftops that's. participantTwo:(1339680-1341220): Start from the rooftops that's. participantOne:(1341220-1341780): Great let's. participantTwo:(1341220-1341800): Great let's. participantOne:(1341780-1343200): Do it everybody's bad? participantTwo:(1341800-1343200): Do it everybody's bad? participantTwo:(1343200-1345140): Would get Shiner [laughter]. participantOne:(1343200-1345120): Would get Shriner [laughter]. participantTwo:(1345180-1346760): Exactly [laughter]. participantOne:(1345180-1348580): Exactly [laughter]. participantTwo:(1347160-1347800): He man. participantTwo:(1348240-1351120): Um, how do you have anything to add to this? participantOne:(1349500-1349620): <unk>. participantOne:(1349620-1353240): You have anything to add to this that you think from your perspective. participantTwo:(1351120-1353200): That you think from your perspective. participantTwo:(1353940-1361400): Well, I mean, I I spent all this time with Stewart and he's convinced me of this and so I'm kind of excited. participantOne:(1353940-1361400): Well, I mean, I I I I spent all this time with Stewart and he's convinced me of this and so I'm kind of excited. participantOne:(1361400-1365180): Now to get into the film or a report here. participantTwo:(1361400-1365000): Now to get into the film or a report here. participantOne:(1365260-1369820): Yeah, we really drove into kind of background of the film or report. participantTwo:(1365340-1369820): Yeah, we we really dove into kind of background of the film or report. participantOne:(1370020-1374260): I think for me that was when you guys were going through. participantTwo:(1370020-1374260): I think for me that was when you guys were going through. participantOne:(1374620-1381970): I wasn't allowed to really talk to because you were all under NDA is, um, and I I just remember from infamous, Indy. participantTwo:(1374620-1387280): I wasn't allowed to really talk to because you were all under NDA is, um, and I I just remember from informs any perspective following along from the outside and calling Travis and Mike, every once in awhile like how you guys doing it. participantOne:(1381970-1387290): Perspective following along from the outside and calling Travis and Mike, every once in awhile me like how you guys doing it. participantTwo:(1387280-1399940): It's like can you talk yet because I really want you on my podcast because I was just itching to get the story out, but um, when you when you got denied a cord and then the NDA ran out and then we did builders 123 on Cindy. participantOne:(1387290-1399930): It's like can you talk yet because I really want you on my podcast because I was just itching to get the story out, but um, when you when you got denied a cord and then the NDA ran out and then we did builders 123 on infamous, Indy. participantTwo:(1401000-1408620): That I I think a lot of people were interested in you in what happened and why you were doing it and that was the number one thing. participantOne:(1401000-1408620): That I I think a lot of people were interested in you in what happened and why you were doing it and that was the number one thing. participantOne:(1408620-1418240): I wanted to answered was why are you guys going after court like what is the reason for the examination in court and to here also your experience on this podcast. participantTwo:(1408620-1418240): I wanted to answered was why are you guys going after court like what is the reason for the examination in court and to here also your experience on this podcast. participantTwo:(1418400-1424680): You know, just gives more insight on you know what was going through your head because I wasn't communicating with you guys at that. participantOne:(1418400-1424680): You know, just gives more insight on you know what was going through your head because I wasn't communicating with you guys at that. participantOne:(1424720-1426700): I didn't know what you guys were going through. participantTwo:(1424720-1426700): I didn't know what you guys were going through. participantOne:(1426740-1432140): So yeah, really de big time. participantTwo:(1426740-1432180): So yeah, really de big time. participantOne:(1432240-1434900): Yeah, yeah, and it cost money too, right. participantTwo:(1432240-1434900): Yeah, yeah, and it cost money too, right. participantOne:(1435580-1440460): Absolutely well, at that time that was still the production company that was a footing, the bill for that stuff. participantTwo:(1435580-1440460): Absolutely well, at that time that was still the production company that was a footing, the bill for that stuff. participantTwo:(1440460-1440660): That's. participantOne:(1440460-1440660): That's. participantOne:(1440660-1440780): What. participantTwo:(1440660-1441060): What I meant? participantOne:(1441040-1442840): Yeah, somebody money. participantTwo:(1441100-1450600): Yeah, somebody money [laughter], but eventually, you know, the the folks that that wrote the checks for that, just said a you know, this is going nowhere. participantOne:(1442880-1450600): [laughter], but eventually, you know, the the folks that that wrote the checks for that, just said a you know, this is going nowhere. participantTwo:(1450640-1453680): So, uh, you know, they they quit writing the checks for it. participantOne:(1450640-1453680): So, uh, you know, they they quit writing the checks for it. participantTwo:(1454280-1460460): Um, and then since then a Travis and Mike, and I have have stuck with this thing. participantOne:(1454280-1460460): Um, and then since then a Travis and Mike, and I have have stuck with this thing. participantOne:(1460640-1464740): We've tried some some things on our own we've we've advanced. participantTwo:(1460640-1464740): We've tried some some things on our own we've we've advanced. participantOne:(1464740-1472900): It somewhat, um, but you know, we're still there's a there's, a there's, a few things that are still a roadblocks for this thing. participantTwo:(1464740-1472900): It somewhat, um, but you know, we're still there's a there's, a there's, a few things that are still a roadblocks for this thing. participantOne:(1472900-1474900): Ultimately getting to the real truth of it. participantTwo:(1472900-1474900): Ultimately getting to the real truth of it. participantOne:(1476120-1478540): So this is good background. participantTwo:(1476120-1478540): So this is good background. participantTwo:(1478600-1481300): I think everyone I really enjoyed that conversation. participantOne:(1478620-1481280): I think everyone I really enjoyed that conversation. participantOne:(1481920-1482360): Let's. participantTwo:(1481920-1482360): Let's. participantTwo:(1482360-1487820): Go into the questions and findings regarding the death of John that's. participantOne:(1482360-1487820): Go into the questions and findings regarding the death of John that's. participantTwo:(1487820-1490160): The name of the report that you put together. participantOne:(1487820-1490160): The name of the report that you put together. participantOne:(1490320-1492060): Yeah, we're gonna go. participantTwo:(1490320-1492120): Yeah, we're gonna go. participantOne:(1492800-1493400): Um, I'm. participantTwo:(1492800-1493400): Um, I'm. participantOne:(1493400-1494280): Just gonna I mean. participantTwo:(1493400-1494280): Just gonna I mean. participantTwo:(1495380-1499700): We know the background here on this Pike pass, but I'm gonna share with everybody. participantOne:(1495380-1499700): We know the background here on this Pike pass, but I'm gonna share with everybody. participantTwo:(1499700-1501840): So let me let me get my share up here. participantOne:(1499700-1501840): So let me let me get my share up here. participantTwo:(1501880-1503200): Let's, get the chair window. participantOne:(1501880-1503200): Let's, get the chair window. participantOne:(1503560-1505300): Oh. God, it looks like literally. participantTwo:(1503560-1505300): Oh. God, it looks like literally. participantTwo:(1506870-1508030): This is fun protection. participantOne:(1506870-1508030): This is fun protection. participantTwo:(1508030-1509150): This is fun production. participantOne:(1508030-1509150): This is fun production. participantTwo:(1509190-1510290): Alright, got it worked. participantOne:(1509190-1510290): Alright, got it worked. participantOne:(1510290-1510730): Perfect. participantTwo:(1510290-1510730): Perfect. participantOne:(1511780-1518940): Okay, so we have the if you're watching on you to the questions and findings regarding the death of John report on the screen. participantTwo:(1511780-1518940): Okay, so we have the if you're watching on you to the questions and findings regarding the death of John report on the screen. participantTwo:(1520030-1521710): Think I can do ma'am a little bit more. participantOne:(1520030-1521710): Think I can do ma'am a little bit more. participantTwo:(1523000-1524160): Yep, okay big time. participantOne:(1523000-1524160): Yep, okay big time. participantTwo:(1525710-1526290): Stewart. participantOne:(1525710-1526290): Stewart. participantTwo:(1526290-1528850): Where you want to start you wanna just start up here in the background? participantOne:(1526290-1528850): Where you want to start you wanna just start up here in the background? participantTwo:(1530360-1536840): Well, yeah, I mean, if if you want me to what I tell you, how this report actually came about and what what. participantOne:(1530360-1536840): Well, yeah, I mean, if if you want me to what I tell you, how this report actually came about and what what. participantTwo:(1536840-1538540): Why I ended up writing this thing? participantOne:(1536840-1538540): Why I ended up writing this thing? participantOne:(1538580-1544240): So I think we've touched on on some previous previous episodes that we found this. participantTwo:(1538580-1544240): So I think we've touched on on some previous previous episodes that we found this. participantTwo:(1544280-1545900): This map buried. participantOne:(1544280-1545900): This map buried. participantOne:(1545940-1548900): A on the farm in Mason jar. participantTwo:(1545940-1548900): A on the farm in Mason jar. participantTwo:(1549740-1552160): Uh, it was a map of the United States. participantOne:(1549740-1552160): Uh, it was a map of the United States. participantTwo:(1552160-1555180): It had this weird route drawn on it that really didn't. participantOne:(1552160-1555180): It had this weird route drawn on it that really didn't. participantOne:(1555180-1556660): Make sense as a route. participantTwo:(1555180-1556660): Make sense as a route. participantOne:(1556860-1565680): We believe that it's some kind of a code that it's actually some kind of, um, uh, it sounds really corny to use the word. participantTwo:(1556860-1565680): We believe that it's some kind of a code that it's actually some kind of, um, uh, it sounds really corny to use the word. participantTwo:(1565680-1570380): Treasure map, but but we believe that is some kind of map leading to. participantOne:(1565680-1570380): Treasure map, but but we believe that is some kind of map leading to. participantOne:(1570870-1575070): Uh, some other are a fact if you will something else. participantTwo:(1570870-1575070): Uh, some other are a fact if you will something else. participantOne:(1575070-1579950): That's buried in this case that we just don't know about at this. a in history. participantTwo:(1575070-1579950): That's buried in this case that we just don't know about at this. a in history. participantOne:(1579950-1581790): Does not know about this map. participantTwo:(1579950-1581790): Does not know about this map. participantTwo:(1581790-1589550): This is really something that's been unexplored and and honestly, it just a finding this map was so exciting. participantOne:(1581790-1589550): This is really something that's been unexplored and and honestly, it just a finding this map was so exciting. participantOne:(1589590-1603350): We we really all felt you know, we're gonna have a TV show we're gonna we're gonna talk about this real artifact we're gonna investigate we're gonna do all the mater technology to try to find fingerprints D A. participantTwo:(1589590-1603350): We we really all felt you know, we're gonna have a TV show we're gonna we're gonna talk about this real artifact we're gonna investigate we're gonna do all the mater technology to try to find fingerprints D A. participantOne:(1604190-1605290): All the things about it. participantTwo:(1604190-1605290): All the things about it. participantTwo:(1605290-1615910): We're gonna have codebreakers and then when alternately when this was presented to the, uh, uh, the networks that we maybe we would you know, put this on as a show. participantOne:(1605290-1615890): We're gonna have codebreakers and then when alternately when this was presented to the, uh, uh, the networks that we maybe we would you know, put this on as a show. participantTwo:(1616600-1621920): Uh, you know, they just were interested who's delivery don't. participantOne:(1616600-1621960): Uh, you know, they just were interested who's delivery don't. participantTwo:(1621960-1625240): You know, we don't care that's boring, blah, blah. participantOne:(1622000-1625240): You know, we don't care that's boring, blah, blah. participantOne:(1625240-1626360): Books like you guys fake. participantTwo:(1625240-1626360): Books like you guys fake. participantOne:(1626360-1630100): This thing a, but a Lo and behold there's. participantTwo:(1626360-1630100): This thing a, but a Lo and behold there's. participantOne:(1630100-1632860): This other theory out there that deliver that. participantTwo:(1630100-1632860): This other theory out there that deliver that. participantTwo:(1632900-1635120): Uh, you know that he was not killed that. participantOne:(1632900-1635120): Uh, you know that he was not killed that. participantTwo:(1635160-1638440): It was an impostor killed by the FBI in 1934. participantOne:(1635160-1638440): It was an impostor killed by the FBI in 1934. participantOne:(1639050-1643870): Uh, we like that a theory better than this whatever this map is. participantTwo:(1639110-1643870): Uh, we like that a theory better than this whatever this map is. participantOne:(1643930-1652290): So, uh, when the producers came back to me about you know, that was the that was the, you know, that's, how the network felt. participantTwo:(1643930-1652290): So, uh, when the producers came back to me about you know, that was the that was the, you know, that's, how the network felt. participantTwo:(1653030-1666780): Um, I just, I thinking as an investigator trying to solve something the most efficient way possible I said, well, if it's an impostor, we have the family a co operating. participantOne:(1653030-1666780): Um, I just, I thinking as an investigator trying to solve something the most efficient way possible I said, well, if it's an impostor, we have the family a co operating. participantTwo:(1666820-1669460): So we can do G A let's just go. participantOne:(1666820-1669460): So we can do G A let's just go. participantOne:(1669460-1672020): Do an examination we'll we'll we'll. participantTwo:(1669460-1672020): Do an examination we'll we'll we'll. participantOne:(1672060-1673180): Dig the body up. participantTwo:(1672060-1673160): Dig the body up. participantTwo:(1673200-1674260): Do DNA testing. participantOne:(1673220-1674260): Do DNA testing. participantOne:(1675110-1676770): That's. participantTwo:(1675110-1676770): That's. participantTwo:(1676770-1678190): It we're in that's. participantOne:(1676770-1678190): It we're in that's. participantTwo:(1678190-1679650): It, yeah, well, well that no. participantOne:(1678190-1679650): It, yeah, well, well that no. participantOne:(1679650-1681450): Well, that's village in the grave. participantTwo:(1679650-1681450): Well, that's village in the grave. participantTwo:(1681510-1683910): So we'll put that theory to rest. participantOne:(1681510-1683930): So we'll put that theory to rest. participantTwo:(1683950-1690710): Yeah, and you know, we'll go on and and now, we'll be able to solve this map because that was that was my mindset. participantOne:(1683970-1690690): Yeah, and you know, we'll go on and and now, we'll be able to solve this map because that was that was my mindset. participantOne:(1691570-1697270): And so I started putting together you know, I started looking into this a deep dive into this. participantTwo:(1691580-1697280): And so I started putting together you know, I started looking into this a deep dive into this. participantOne:(1697310-1698870): This so called impostor. participantTwo:(1697320-1698860): This so called impostor. participantTwo:(1698860-1704020): Theory and I started finding things that I couldn't find answers to that. participantOne:(1698870-1704030): Theory and I started finding things that I couldn't find answers to that. participantTwo:(1704020-1707120): That that these anomalies and discrepancies about his. participantOne:(1704030-1707110): That that these anomalies and discrepancies about his. participantOne:(1707110-1710950): Uh, his identification that was different from his known. participantTwo:(1707120-1710980): Uh, his identification that was different from his known. participantOne:(1710990-1719150): Characteristics that were identified in the autopsy, a and then along the way there was several other factors that came that came about. participantTwo:(1711020-1719140): Characteristics that were identified in the autopsy, a and then along the way there were several other factors that came that came about. participantTwo:(1719780-1724540): Um, I found that there was a an author made a A J Robert mash. participantOne:(1719780-1724540): Um, I found that there was a an author made a A J Robert mash. participantOne:(1724540-1742940): Who had done a couple of books about about this very thing about this cylinder posture theory in the late sixties and I think early seventies and read those books and actually, I ended up getting in touch with with a National talking he's still a lot very sharp guy? participantTwo:(1724540-1742940): Who had done a couple of books about about this very thing about this cylinder posture theory in the late sixties and I think early seventies and read those books and actually, I ended up getting in touch with with a National talking he's still a lot very sharp guy? participantTwo:(1743700-1744320): Him up. participantOne:(1743700-1744320): Him up. participantTwo:(1744360-1746440): We need on here. participantOne:(1744360-1746480): We need on here. participantOne:(1746660-1753250): Yeah, um, so, uh, you know, so I you know, I I just started thinking that, man. participantTwo:(1746720-1753250): Yeah, um, so, uh, you know, so I you know, I I just started thinking that, man. participantOne:(1753250-1761170): I you know, there's a whole lot of an answer questions on this and I said this before like I said, if I this were my case I wouldn't want these questions out there. participantTwo:(1753250-1761170): I you know, there's a whole lot of an answer questions on this and I said this before like I said, if I this were my case I wouldn't want these questions out there. participantOne:(1761170-1765690): I want to answer these questions and use whatever techniques I had available. participantTwo:(1761170-1765690): I want to answer these questions and use whatever techniques I had available. participantOne:(1766730-1770950): So, um, eventually, I just had so much information. participantTwo:(1766730-1770950): So, um, eventually, I just had so much information. participantOne:(1770950-1773910): I just thought you know, I've got I've got to compile this in some way. participantTwo:(1770950-1773910): I just thought you know, I've got I've got to compile this in some way. participantOne:(1773910-1781310): So I just wrote a report much as I would write you know in the FBI is a as a what we would call a prosecutor port. participantTwo:(1773910-1781310): So I just wrote a report much as I would write you know in the FBI is a as a what we would call a prosecutor report. participantOne:(1781350-1786830): You know, something you give to a prosecutor in a case that you know, outlines in case you may have again. participantTwo:(1781350-1787470): You know, something you give to a prosecutor in a case that you know, outlines in case you may have against somebody. participantOne:(1786830-1789520): Somebody so that's, how pretty much. participantTwo:(1787510-1789530): So that that's, how pretty much. participantOne:(1789520-1793340): I wrote this up, but the most a significant thing. participantTwo:(1789530-1793350): I wrote this up, but the most a significant thing. participantOne:(1793340-1797580): I've found of all the discrepancies regarding delivers. participantTwo:(1793350-1797550): I've found of all the discrepancies regarding delivers. participantTwo:(1797590-1801670): Uh, you know these these various things that didn't match from his known. participantOne:(1797620-1801680): Uh, you know these these various things that didn't match from his known. participantTwo:(1801670-1819760): Characteristics to, uh, what they found in the autopsy for you know for instance, one of the big things is, uh, that, uh, the autopsy said he had Brown eyes and deliver was known to have these vivid a really unique gray eyes, which which you know, I think, uh someone has gray eyes. participantOne:(1801680-1804920): Characteristics to, uh, what they found in the autopsy. participantOne:(1805510-1819750): Uh, you know for instance, one of the big things is, uh, that, uh, the autopsy city had Brown eyes and was known to have these vivid a really unique gray eyes, which which you know, I think, uh someone has gray eyes. participantOne:(1819790-1824300): I would described that is maybe like really striking light blue eyes. participantTwo:(1819800-1824300): I would describe that as maybe like really striking light blue eyes. participantTwo:(1825060-1830020): Um, you know you know, there's some people have <unk>. participantOne:(1825080-1827960): Um, you know you know, there's the people. participantOne:(1828280-1830140): <unk>. participantOne:(1830180-1834440): Yeah, before we roll down the theory, the I theory. participantTwo:(1830370-1834430): Yeah, before we roll down the the theory, the I theory. participantOne:(1834500-1838980): Yeah, is is we're going on into the next episode, but this episode. participantTwo:(1834550-1839250): Yeah, is is we're going on into the next episode, but this episode. participantTwo:(1839410-1840950): Yeah, let's stick to the ear. participantOne:(1839500-1840980): Yeah, let's stick to the <unk>. participantTwo:(1840950-1841110): <unk>. participantOne:(1840980-1844840): Yeah, so so I was gonna say so that you know, that's just one of the things. participantTwo:(1841110-1844830): Yeah, so so if I was gonna say so that you know, that's just one of the things. participantTwo:(1844830-1855770): That's it's out there that that it's been previously you know, a pointed out and talked about and discuss Ah, but as I looked at it, I looked at several pictures of villager. participantOne:(1844840-1851200): That's that's out there that that has been previously you know, a pointed out and talked about and discussed. participantOne:(1851620-1855780): Uh, but as I looked at it, I looked at several pictures of villager. participantTwo:(1855810-1861430): Uh, that you know when when he was in the morgue, a and something. participantOne:(1855820-1861440): Uh, that you know when when he was in the morgue of and something. participantTwo:(1861430-1864110): I couldn't quite put my finger on it. participantOne:(1861440-1864120): I couldn't quite put my finger on it. participantTwo:(1864110-1866570): Something's, not right what am I not seeing here. participantOne:(1864120-1868100): Something's, not right what am I not seeing here that doesn't look, right. participantTwo:(1866750-1868110): It doesn't look, right. participantTwo:(1868170-1871670): And it suddenly occurred to me that the ears don't look right. participantOne:(1868200-1871720): And it's suddenly occurred to me that the ears don't look right. participantOne:(1871760-1873060): The the years. participantTwo:(1871790-1873050): The the years. participantTwo:(1873050-1874150): Do not match. participantOne:(1873060-1874140): Do not match. participantOne:(1874180-1880650): So I did a deep dive on on John Jersey years from every angle. participantTwo:(1874210-1880650): So I did a deep dive on on John villagers years from every angle. participantTwo:(1880650-1885610): I could find any picture that I saw him either dead or alive. participantOne:(1880650-1885610): I could find any picture that I saw him either dead or alive. participantTwo:(1885670-1899410): I studied the exact features of his years and there's without a doubt a without a doubt the ears do not match there is just absolutely no question about it. participantOne:(1885670-1899410): I studied the exact features of his years and there's without a doubt a without a doubt the ears do not match there is just absolutely no question about it. participantOne:(1900000-1906920): Um, now some people may say, well, you know, the years are gonna look different depending on the angle of the camera. participantTwo:(1900000-1906920): Um, now some people may say, well, you know, the years are gonna look different depending on the angle of the camera. participantOne:(1906920-1908300): The distance of the camera. participantTwo:(1906920-1908280): The distance of the camera. participantTwo:(1908320-1909680): All these other factors. participantOne:(1908340-1910660): All these other factors camera. participantTwo:(1909780-1910660): The camera. participantTwo:(1910660-1912960): They weren't a high definition cameras either back then. participantOne:(1910660-1913060): They weren't a high definition camera either back then. participantOne:(1913300-1915060): It's, not high definition cameras. participantTwo:(1913360-1915060): It's, not high definition cameras. participantOne:(1915100-1921800): But I'm telling you they are good enough that, uh, you know if it I don't care. participantTwo:(1915100-1921800): But I'm telling you they are good enough that, uh, you know if it I don't care. participantOne:(1921800-1925420): What the position of the camera is the age of the camera? participantTwo:(1921800-1925420): What the position of the camera is the age of the camera? participantOne:(1925420-1926180): The distance. participantTwo:(1925420-1926180): The distance. participantTwo:(1926180-1926640): I don't care. participantOne:(1926180-1926640): I don't care. participantTwo:(1926640-1927280): What it is? participantOne:(1926640-1927100): What it is? participantTwo:(1927340-1937830): If you take a picture of somebody that you know a known person you can tell that that's that person now they may look different slightly in picture. participantOne:(1927510-1937850): If you take a picture of somebody that you know a known person you can tell that that's that person now they may look different slightly and in the picture. participantTwo:(1937830-1940630): You know in just different pictures, but it's the same person. participantOne:(1937850-1940630): You know in just different pictures, but it's the same person. participantTwo:(1940670-1942670): So, it's, the same thing with the years. participantOne:(1940690-1942670): So, it's, the same thing with the years. participantOne:(1942710-1945650): There's, the shape there's a formation to the years. participantTwo:(1942730-1949510): There's a shape there's a formation to the years and I'm talking to the internal structures of the year. participantOne:(1945690-1949510): Uh, and I'm talking to the internal structures of the year. participantOne:(1949510-1952250): The shape of the the outer load of the year. participantTwo:(1949510-1952250): The shape of the the outer load of the year. participantTwo:(1952760-1956620): The the tray gas, which is like the big media part, right there. participantOne:(1952840-1956620): Uh, the tray gas, which is like the big media part, right there. participantOne:(1956620-1957160): You know that. participantTwo:(1956620-1957160): You know that. participantOne:(1957300-1961400): Uh, you know that kind of protects the the year Canal. participantTwo:(1957320-1961440): Uh, you know that kind of protects the the year Canal. participantTwo:(1962020-1964660): Um, all these things the angle of the years. participantOne:(1962020-1967660): Um, all these things the angle of the years is it as it sits on the head with different. participantTwo:(1964660-1967660): It is it as it sits on the head with different. participantTwo:(1967880-1969720): So so let me ask you this. participantOne:(1968140-1969780): So let me ask you this. participantTwo:(1969720-1970240): Stuart lemme. participantOne:(1969980-1970760): Lemme just pause here. participantTwo:(1970240-1970680): Just pause. participantTwo:(1970680-1977510): Yeah, uh, when it comes because I'm gonna what I'm gonna do is I'm actually gonna pull up the pictures now of what we have. participantOne:(1971340-1977500): Uh, when it comes because I'm gonna what I'm gonna do is I'm actually gonna pull up the pictures now of what we have. participantOne:(1977560-1980780): Yeah, and then you can kinda go in debt on the pictures. participantTwo:(1977570-1980790): Yeah, and then you can kind of go in debt on the pictures. participantOne:(1980780-1980940): I'll. participantTwo:(1980790-1980950): I'll. participantOne:(1980940-1986180): Try to use my mouse as best as possible to showcase it, but something I wanna. participantTwo:(1980950-1986150): Try to use my mouse as best as possible to showcase it, but something I wanna. participantTwo:(1986190-1988350): I want you to address before you really hit that. participantOne:(1986220-1988360): I want you to address before you really hit that. participantOne:(1990220-1996060): There's reports that he had facial surgery prior to the bar graph like six weeks prior. participantTwo:(1990220-1996060): There's reports that he had facial surgery prior to the bar graph like six weeks prior. participantTwo:(1996220-1999240): Yes, what was the here's part of the facial? participantOne:(1996220-1999240): Yes, what was the here's part of the facial? participantOne:(1999280-2001800): Well, it actually wasn't even six months. participantTwo:(1999280-2001800): Well, it actually wasn't even six months. participantOne:(2001840-2003720): No, it was from may to July. participantTwo:(2001840-2003720): No, it was from may to July. participantOne:(2003720-2005140): So it's just a couple of months. participantTwo:(2003720-2005140): So it's just a couple of months. participantOne:(2005220-2008540): He had, um, a a facial surgery. participantTwo:(2005220-2008540): He had, um, a a facial surgery. participantTwo:(2008540-2010320): I think he had a couple moles removed. participantOne:(2008540-2010320): I think he had a couple moles removed. participantOne:(2010320-2012380): He had a dimple in his chin. participantTwo:(2010320-2012380): He had a dimple in his chin. participantTwo:(2012380-2013440): That was worked on. participantOne:(2012380-2013440): That was worked on. participantOne:(2013920-2018060): Uh, some other maybe minor facial characteristics. participantTwo:(2013920-2018080): Uh, some other maybe minor facial characteristics. participantOne:(2018100-2021640): He had his a finger prints obligated. participantTwo:(2018140-2021640): He had his a finger prints a litter rated. participantOne:(2021640-2029440): So that the the, uh, we'll get into another episode about how you know the fingerprints or how that actually works. participantTwo:(2021640-2029440): So that the the, uh, we'll get into another episode about how you know the fingerprints or how that actually works. participantTwo:(2029440-2050490): But uh in the in the very tips of your fingers there's either a loop world or an arch a and that is like the beginning. of how you you do fingerprint identification and deliver a and a and a Buddy of his had the the very very tips of their fingers mutilated. participantOne:(2029440-2050550): But uh in the in the very tips of your fingers there's either a loop world or an arch a and that is like the beginning. of how you you do fingerprint identification and deliver a and a and a Buddy of his had the the very very tips of their fingers mutilated. participantTwo:(2050530-2055050): So that it would prevent, um, fingerprint identification. participantOne:(2050590-2055010): So that it would prevent, um, fingerprint identification. participantTwo:(2055370-2063630): And this was done just a couple months before the the the bar graph the adder and so it, you know it could be argued that that's one thing. participantOne:(2055470-2063970): And this was done just a couple of months before the diagram theater and so it, you know it could be argued that that's one thing. participantOne:(2064070-2067410): Uh, that certainly was different about them. participantTwo:(2064250-2067410): Uh, that certainly was different about them. participantOne:(2067470-2072530): Um, I their their accounts that his friend that was a his name is Homer Vanmeter. participantTwo:(2067470-2071970): Um, I their their accounts that his friend that was a his name is Homer. participantTwo:(2071970-2077050): Van meter that you know, Vanmeter, uh, some people joke to him about man. participantOne:(2072990-2077050): That you know, Vanmeter, uh, some people joke to him about man. participantTwo:(2077050-2078710): You went through all this pain, Missouri. participantOne:(2077050-2078710): You went through all this pain, Missouri. participantOne:(2078710-2081430): And costs to have this plastic surgery. participantTwo:(2078710-2082630): And costs to have this plastic surgery and I could still tell it to you. participantOne:(2081430-2082810): I could still tell it to you. participantOne:(2083210-2087490): You know, so the the plastic surgery did not do anything. participantTwo:(2083260-2087480): You know, so the the plastic surgery did not do anything. participantTwo:(2087480-2092460): Drastic that would you know that you couldn't you know, looks like a completely different person. participantOne:(2087490-2092470): Drastic that would you know that you couldn't you know, look like a completely different person. participantTwo:(2092460-2095400): It was very very minor as far as the facial stuff went. participantOne:(2092470-2098780): It was very very minor as far as the facial stuff went, um, but there's, no indication. participantTwo:(2096220-2098760): Um, but there's, no indication. participantTwo:(2098760-2100460): And I've read in detail. participantOne:(2098780-2100460): And I've read in detail. participantTwo:(2100460-2117360): The the surgeon and it's a it's, a stretch calling him a surgeon, but the the physician that that actually did the plastic surgery, a you know the FBI located him and did a very detailed report who was he a as we're sitting here. participantOne:(2100460-2105340): The the surgeon and it's a that's, a stretch calling him surgeon. participantOne:(2105500-2117360): But the the physician that that actually did the plastic surgery, a you know the FBI located him and did a very detailed report who was he a as we're sitting here. participantOne:(2117500-2118700): Not dropping the name. participantTwo:(2117500-2118700): Not dropping the name. participantOne:(2118700-2119840): It's it's in the report. participantTwo:(2118700-2119840): It's it's in the report. participantTwo:(2119840-2120920): There's, 22. participantOne:(2119840-2120920): There's, 22. participantOne:(2120920-2121600): Doctors. participantTwo:(2120920-2121600): Doctors. participantTwo:(2121740-2128200): Okay, yeah, and and you know, he gave a very detailed account of all the procedures. participantOne:(2121740-2128200): Okay, yeah, and and you know, he gave a very detailed account of all the procedures. participantTwo:(2128280-2138830): There was nothing indicated that the that the years were involved in anyway in fact, actually, I I'm not aware that there's any type of plastic surgery. participantOne:(2128280-2138810): There was nothing indicated that the that the years were involved in anyway in fact, actually, I I'm not aware that there's any type of plastic surgery. participantOne:(2138930-2146310): You know, involving the years, uh, you know maybe there is a, but certainly nothing that would. participantTwo:(2139070-2150490): You know, involving the years, uh, you know maybe there is a, but certainly nothing that would be on just you know a very drastic surgery in case. participantOne:(2147290-2150490): Beyond just you know, a very drastic surgery in case. participantOne:(2150490-2157470): There's a you know, a real big deformity of some kind of not to this level that we're looking here on the screen. participantTwo:(2150490-2157310): There's a you know real big deformity of some kind of the to this level that we're you're on the screen. participantOne:(2157510-2165390): So, so, okay, so these these guys aren't really plastic surgeon, the physician that did this did you know it still looks like them. participantTwo:(2157810-2165570): So, so, okay, so these these guys aren't really plastic surgeon, the physician that did this didn't, you know, it still looks like them. participantTwo:(2165610-2168070): So it didn't touch the years. participantOne:(2165780-2168060): So it didn't touch the years. participantOne:(2168100-2168340): That's. participantTwo:(2168110-2168350): That's. participantOne:(2168340-2169440): What I'm hearing you say? participantTwo:(2168350-2169450): What I'm hearing you say? participantOne:(2169620-2176540): Yes, so <unk>, yes, yeah, I mean, frankly, for me on here at first glance. participantTwo:(2169630-2175170): Yes, so, um, yes to, I mean, frankly, for me on here. participantTwo:(2175170-2179590): It at first glance it does look like John on the right hand side. participantOne:(2176540-2179590): It does look like John villager on the right hand side. participantTwo:(2179630-2182130): I mean, like you know, look at the face. participantOne:(2179630-2182130): I mean, like you know, look at the face. participantOne:(2182170-2198510): If you look at the overall, you know, the the face a you know, the nose matches the the eyebrows, the shape, the eyebrows matched the mouth, the chin literally everything matches the airline, but but when you look at those years. participantTwo:(2182170-2198510): If you look at the overall, you know, the the face a you know, the nose matches the the eyebrows, the shape, the eyebrows matched the mouth, the chin literally everything matches the airline, but but when you look at those years. participantTwo:(2198770-2201410): Uh, they just, they don't match. participantOne:(2198790-2201410): Uh, they just, they don't match. participantTwo:(2201410-2203730): They don't lay on the head, the same angle. participantOne:(2201410-2203730): They don't lay on the head, the same angle. participantTwo:(2204590-2206050): What are the two pictures? participantOne:(2204590-2206050): What are the two pictures? participantTwo:(2206090-2207850): Explain to people what they are. participantOne:(2206090-2207850): Explain to people what they are. participantTwo:(2208010-2209230): Okay, <unk>. participantOne:(2208050-2209230): Okay, <unk>. participantTwo:(2209390-2216150): Okay, so the the picture on the left, the, um, and and the one on the top left corner. participantOne:(2209390-2216150): Okay, so the the picture on the left, the, um, and and the one on the top left corner. participantOne:(2217050-2224970): And the one on the bottom left corner at the bottom left is just the zoom in of the of that the one on the top left and same thing on the right. participantTwo:(2217050-2224970): And the one on the bottom left corner at the bottom left is just the zoom in of the of that the one on the top left and same thing on the right. participantOne:(2225900-2230860): Okay, so the one on the top left is a is from a monk shot a profile. participantTwo:(2225900-2230860): Okay, so the one on the top left is a is from a monk shot a profile. participantOne:(2230860-2240680): Mug shot from a an arrest of villager in Tucson, Arizona in early 1930 for January 30 for the one on the top right. participantTwo:(2230860-2238000): Mug shot from a an arrest of villager in Tucson, Arizona in early 1930 for January 34. participantTwo:(2238640-2240900): The one on the top right. participantTwo:(2241080-2243700): Is in the morgue in July 34. participantOne:(2241190-2243690): Is in the morgue in July 34. participantOne:(2243730-2251050): So just just really literally a few months apart and man, you know, if you just look at that. participantTwo:(2243740-2251040): So just just really literally a few months apart and man, you know, if you just look at that. participantTwo:(2251080-2262160): Uh in general I'd say that's, the same guy without a doubt I mean, very much alike, but man, when you June on those years, the the years just don't match. participantOne:(2251090-2262150): Uh in general I'd say that's, the same guy without a doubt I mean, very much alike, but man, when you June on those years, the years just don't match. participantOne:(2263210-2279120): No, if you, if from for Lehman safe here, the outer part of the years are thinner than the outer part of the years on the mug shot and also the blood is still on his face from the shooting. participantTwo:(2263210-2279110): No, if you, if in from for Lehman safe here, the outer part of the years are thinner than the outer part of the years on the mob shot and also the blood is still on his face from the shooting. participantTwo:(2279110-2281490): So this is this is an autopsy picture. participantOne:(2279120-2281500): So this is this is an autopsy picture. participantOne:(2281540-2284460): It looks like from before this before. participantTwo:(2281550-2284270): It looks like from before this before. participantTwo:(2284670-2287590): Um, they clean them up off the after the shooting. participantOne:(2284680-2287560): Um, they clean them up off the after the shooting. participantOne:(2287600-2292420): Yeah, so one thing that that I had pondered about this was. participantTwo:(2287630-2292270): Yeah, so one thing that that I had pondered about this was. participantTwo:(2293350-2296810): Uh, you know, so just to be graphic for a second. participantOne:(2293360-2296830): A you know, so just to be graphic for a second. participantTwo:(2296810-2310430): I hope some of our listeners are not put off by this, but as far as how an autopsy works is if there's a trigger trigger warning, right now that yeah, if you don't hear a trigger trip if you don't wanna hear some graphic details about autopsies, right now. participantOne:(2296830-2310430): I hope some of our listeners are not put off by this, but as far as how an autopsy works is if there's a trigger trigger warning, right now that yeah, if you don't hear a trigger trip if you don't wanna hear some graphic details about autopsies, right now. participantOne:(2310530-2311570): I'm probably ask for it. participantTwo:(2310530-2311570): I'm probably ask for it. participantTwo:(2311570-2312550): A couple minutes here. participantOne:(2311570-2312550): A couple minutes here. participantTwo:(2312590-2320290): So the way it works is an autopsy and decision is made really from maybe just in front of the year. participantOne:(2312590-2320290): So the way it works is an autopsy an incision is made really from maybe just in front of the year. participantOne:(2320350-2322810): All the way across the top of the scalp. participantTwo:(2320350-2322810): All the way across the top of the scalp. participantOne:(2323630-2349300): The so basically the scalp is cut in half then the the the front part is peeled forward just above the eyebrows and so, so if the back is Peel back to expose the the school cap and then using as either handsaw or an electric saw a cut is made in the top of the school cap that expose the brain that they can do what they need to do from there. participantTwo:(2323690-2349300): The so basically the scalp is cut in half then the the the front part is peeled forward just above the eyebrows and so, so to the back is Peel back to expose the the school cap and then using as either handsaw or an electric saw a cut is made in the top of the school cap that expose the brain that they can do what they need to do from there. participantOne:(2349700-2351720): And in this process. participantTwo:(2349700-2351700): And in this process. participantOne:(2351760-2362580): I thought you know maybe in in stretching and pulling that skin off of the school that you know it could of a. participantTwo:(2351760-2362580): I thought you know maybe in in stretching and pulling that skin off of the school that you know it could of a. participantOne:(2363660-2366060): Be the explanation for why these years. participantTwo:(2363660-2366060): Be the explanation for why these years. participantOne:(2366060-2370480): Don't match, but I mean, we're in ligaments, right. participantTwo:(2366060-2370480): Don't match, but I mean, we're in ligaments, right. participantTwo:(2370480-2373440): Stuart, like when I mean, you're pulling. participantOne:(2370480-2373420): Stuart, like when I mean, you're pulling. participantOne:(2373740-2389690): Yeah, yeah, you're pulling facial scan off the schedule at the top and like you can imagine, especially when you're making decisions and such in the school in the skullcap itself that maybe years just don't step back into place after exactly. participantTwo:(2373740-2389690): Yeah, yeah, you're pulling facial scan off the schedule at the top and like you can imagine, especially when you're making decisions and such in the school in the skullcap itself that maybe years just don't step back into place after exactly. participantOne:(2389690-2395490): So so I mean, you know that for me that that was one explanation, but but here's the deal. participantTwo:(2389690-2395490): So so I mean, you know that for me that that was one explanation, but but here's the deal. participantOne:(2395530-2410190): So you actually don't have to pull the the the the school or the the scalp that far down to where it really would it would involve the years and what we're seeing here. participantTwo:(2395530-2410190): So you actually don't have to pull the the the the school or the the scalp that far down to where it really would it would involve the years and what we're seeing here. participantTwo:(2410230-2410850): The picture. participantOne:(2410230-2410850): The picture. participantTwo:(2410850-2412830): That's on the bottom that the the viewers. participantOne:(2410850-2412830): That's on the bottom that the the viewers. participantTwo:(2412830-2413670): Can see right now. participantOne:(2412830-2413670): Can see right now. participantTwo:(2413670-2429540): The picture on the bottom that's actually, pre autopsy because in the sequence of how autopsies done a you know, there's an external examination of the body as it is, um, and you know, nothing's cleaned off. participantOne:(2413670-2429540): The picture on the bottom that's actually, pre autopsy because in the sequence of how autopsies done a you know, there's an external examination of the body as it is, um, and you know, nothing's cleaned off. participantOne:(2429580-2438400): So, but by the time they get ready to make incisions and to actually, uh, you know, study, the internal parts of the body they're gonna clean the body off. participantTwo:(2429580-2438400): So, but by the time they get ready to make incisions and to actually, uh, you know, study, the internal parts of the body they're gonna clean the body off. participantTwo:(2439000-2446620): So even back then they wouldn't have made a mistake with him and and and done the autopsy, right now like with his face still bloody from the the shooting. participantOne:(2439000-2446620): So even back then they wouldn't have made a mistake with him and and and done the autopsy, right now like with his face still bloody from the the shooting. participantTwo:(2446900-2451560): No, because there's actually pictures of him cleaned up in the a morgue. participantOne:(2446900-2451560): No, because there's actually pictures of him cleaned up in the a morgue. participantOne:(2451600-2455380): Uh, before, uh, that clearly where an autopsy has not been done. participantTwo:(2451600-2455380): Uh, before, uh, that clearly where an autopsy has not been done. participantOne:(2455640-2462280): The there are some actually some pictures of him that we know a from a in the funeral home. participantTwo:(2455640-2462280): The there are some actually some pictures of him that we know a from a in the funeral home. participantOne:(2462320-2464600): So clearly that would've been post autopsy. participantTwo:(2462320-2464600): So clearly that would've been post autopsy. participantTwo:(2465180-2467260): Uh, where he he man. participantOne:(2465180-2467260): Uh, where he he man. participantOne:(2467260-2468520): He just doesn't look right it's. participantTwo:(2467260-2468520): He just doesn't look right it's. participantTwo:(2468520-2470800): Just not him and he's been bombed as well. participantOne:(2468520-2470800): Just not him and he's been bombed as well. participantTwo:(2470980-2475760): A, but then there's a function as to it when they, you know, when they just put it back together. participantOne:(2470980-2475760): A, but then there's a function as to it when they, you know, when they just put it back together. participantOne:(2475840-2478040): It just didn't quite look right. participantTwo:(2475840-2478040): It just didn't quite look right. participantTwo:(2478220-2486600): Uh, but but yeah, this is gonna be before any incisions were made a you know on the anywhere near the school or the years or anywhere. participantOne:(2478220-2486600): Uh, but but yeah, this is gonna be before any incisions were made a you know on the anywhere near the school or the years or anywhere. participantOne:(2487790-2489610): I can't believe this I have to say this, but. participantTwo:(2487790-2489610): I can't believe this I have to say this, but. participantTwo:(2490700-2500800): If you guys want to hear more about the years state tune for part two of this episode, which will be issued for coming up here in just a minute. participantOne:(2490710-2500810): If you guys want to hear more about the years state tune for part two of this episode, which will be episode for coming up here in just a minute. participantTwo:(2500800-2502340): If you if you just keep listening. participantOne:(2500810-2506010): If you if you just keep listening we're gonna continue this conversation here on the code 4. participantTwo:(2502920-2503900): Well, we're gonna continue. participantTwo:(2503900-2505980): This conversation here on the code 4. participantTwo:(2506020-2506780): So sure. participantOne:(2506050-2512790): So sure, I'm gonna pause you because we're gonna we're gonna take a break and we're gonna let the listeners kind of digest there's been a lot. participantTwo:(2506780-2516260): I'm gonna pause you because we're gonna we're gonna take a break and we're gonna let the listeners kind of digest there's been a lot to discuss today as you here as you heard Travis. participantOne:(2512830-2516270): Discussed today as you here as you heard Travis. participantTwo:(2516360-2517180): Uh, I want. participantOne:(2516610-2518850): I want I also want Travis next episode. participantTwo:(2517180-2518860): I also want Travis next episode. participantOne:(2518850-2533290): I want you to the first thing to tell us is what was told to your grandfather and what your what your family experience when it came to seeing John's body for the first time. participantTwo:(2518860-2520860): I want you to the first thing to tell us. participantTwo:(2521880-2533280): Is what was told to your grandfather and what your what your family experienced when it came to seeing John's body for the first time. participantTwo:(2533280-2535660): What you've been told through your family timeline? participantOne:(2533290-2535650): What you've been told through your family timeline? participantOne:(2537370-2542340): So we're gonna Paul's we'll be right back if you just keep wanna keep listening. participantTwo:(2537980-2542340): So we're gonna pause we'll be right back if you just keep wanna keep listening. participantOne:(2542340-2545520): Just go to the next episode and, uh, we really appreciate you. participantTwo:(2542340-2545500): Just go to the next episode and, uh, we really appreciate you. participantTwo:(2545500-2546060): All hear. participantOne:(2545520-2546120): All hear. participantTwo:(2546120-2547260): We we we're. participantOne:(2546160-2547260): We we we're. participantOne:(2547260-2547940): So excited. participantTwo:(2547260-2547940): So excited. participantOne:(2547940-2550780): This is a dream come true for a lot of us. participantTwo:(2547940-2551960): This is a dream come true for a lot of us of all of us. participantOne:(2551200-2551960): All of us. participantTwo:(2552580-2554460): So thank you, Todd. participantOne:(2552620-2554460): So thank you, Todd. participantOne:(2555850-2556850): You wanna come back to. participantTwo:(2555870-2556870): You wanna come back to. participantOne:(2556890-2557890): Yeah, I'll be there. participantTwo:(2556910-2557890): Yeah, I'll be there. participantTwo:(2558710-2559850): [laughter]. participantOne:(2558710-2559850): [laughter]. participantOne:(2559890-2560730): This is great. participantTwo:(2559890-2560730): This is great. participantOne:(2560790-2563830): All right, everybody you stay tuned and keep digging. participantTwo:(2560790-2563850): All right, everybody you stay tuned and keep digging. participantOne:(2566230-2566910): The digging up. participantTwo:(2566320-2566920): The digging up. participantOne:(2566910-2569810): Villager pop gas is produced by joy O breaker. participantTwo:(2566920-2569780): Villager part gas is produced by Joel and breaks. participantOne:(2571230-2577210): Produced by any bands you follow us on tick tock and Facebook continue to until next time. participantTwo:(2571390-2574250): Just by any balance follow us on tick tock. participantTwo:(2574290-2578150): Facebook continue to until next time keeping. participantOne:(2577610-2578190): Keep digging. participantTwo:(2580890-2581130): <unk>.