KATE MARTIN: This podcast is sponsored by Blue Diamond Garden

Centres.

Fill your garden with beauty and heritage with the National Trust

Collection of bulbs seeds and plants specially created by Blue

Diamond Garden Centres. Working together for the love of nature.

Hello and welcome to the National Trust podcast. I'm Kate

Martin, lead ranger at the National Trust. And today, I'm

somewhere very different to my usual coastal workplace.

I've come to London, 80% of the UK population now live in urban

homes where many have limited or no access to green areas. So how

can we encourage nature to thrive in different ways? I'm

off to meet a couple of people who can show me how to grow in

unconventional urban spaces.

LONDON UNDERGROUND ANNOUNCEMENT: The next station is Oxford

Circus.

KATE MARTIN: In November 2019, The Greater London Authority

reported that London has the lowest levels of green space

availability in all of the UK. Just 20% of London is made up of

publicly accessible parks even though 47% of the city's land

overall is classed as green space.

LONDON UNDERGROUND ANNOUNCEMENT: Please stand clear of the doors.

KATE MARTIN: I'm on the underground train now heading to

a London borough that can really see the evidence of inequality

to access to green space, which is Kensington and Chelsea.

I'm going to meet activist, local resident and gardener

Tayshan Hayden-Smith, who is trying to change all that. I've

got off the tube and I am walking through Meanwhile,

Gardens, I've been through all sorts of different landscapes.

I've been through a skate park, more sort of wooded areas and

now I'm somewhere different and this must be Tayshan - Hi, I'm

Kate.

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Hey Kate, welcome.

KATE MARTIN: Thank you. This is just glorious. So where we are,

I'm stood by beautiful ponds, surrounded by colourful bushes

and trees, but also surrounded by high rise buildings.

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Yeah. Well, this is the iconic

Trellick Tower which overlooks this garden almost guards it in

ways. And what's like really does stand out to me is the

biodiversity of especially the trees in this space. You've got

cherries, eucalyptus over there. You've got mimosa, a new thing

to see at every corner really.

KATE MARTIN: And so this area is called Meanwhile Gardens. So why

Meanwhile?

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: So in the seventies, a gentleman called

Jamie Mcculloch, I think he was just passing on Great Western

Road and saw this derelict kind of unused, barren bit of land.

And so he came in here and decided that he was gonna turn

it into a beautiful garden for the community and he asked

permission for the council to do something with it. In the

meanwhile, hence the name Meanwhile Gardens and it's just

flourished since then. I'd like to think it's more than

meanwhile, now.

KATE MARTIN: It certainly looks pretty well established to me. I

don't think I'd think it was a meanwhile place.

So, what's your involvement with this wonderful garden?

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: This is a space that I've cherished

growing up. Often as a youngster, I'd be up to so much

mischief in Meanwhile Gardens, whether it's kind of running

through here or there's a skate park just down, down over there.

So I used to come with a few friends play a bit of football.

But, yeah, as I've got older, I've come to really appreciate

it for the colour, the character, the nature, the

wildlife.

And, I just think it's a really amazing sanctuary. You've got a

railway track over there. You've got a busy road over there. You

could probably hear the police sirens here and there, but

actually within this space, all of that is forgotten. And that's

just a rarity in inner city London.

KATE MARTIN: It's incredibly peaceful. I mean, I am a country

girl. So to me, you know,

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: You're back at home

KATE MARTIN: I am, it's beautiful. I mean, this is

obviously something that's really important to you. Where

does the sort of love, I suppose, gardening and the

outdoors come from.

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: My mum had a massive influence on my

adoration for nature. My mum was terminally ill from when I was

like 12-13 years old. I think that completely flipped the way

that she saw life.

She had, she was a single mother of four of us. we lived in a

council house and, you know, I think she really started to hone

in on just how healing nature can be and it wouldn't be that

mum sat us down at the table and went right.

You're gonna have to understand how nature heals you and how it,

no, it was just in the way that she acted in a way that she did

things and how engaged she was with the natural environment.

Walking to school, she'd change her routes every time so that

the routes were scenic and she would go, oh, you know, look at

the beautiful bark on that tree. And she had this thing for bird

song.

She would ask us what the birds were saying, what, what were

they singing today? Which kept us really engaged and connected.

And at times, obviously, we would shrug it off and go, oh, I

like no one cares about that. Leave us alone. But it really

has planted that seed. When I was growing up, my, my ambition

was to be a footballer.

And at about 14-15, I realized, OK, this is something that I

could really make a career of. I mean by no means was I a premier

league footballer. But I went through certain academies so

played for Brentford, QQR, been at Wimbledon, had stints at

Newcastle and then finally got my break in about 2015/2016

where I signed for a third division, Austrian club called

FC Kitzbuhel.

Things had suddenly started to fall into place. So I was, you

know, playing professional football and I was looking ahead

to playing in the season after - I think we had one more game

left.

And I, I remember on the night of June the 14th, 2017, my

phone, maybe at about midnight, started pinging off and I was

thinking, you know, who's trying to get hold of me at this time,

you know what's going on. And it was my sister who'd sent a

picture of quite a contained fire in Grenfell where my mum's

place is literally in the shadow of Grenfell.

So I had to get loads of other messages from loads of other

people. And it was quickly realized that this fire was

engulfing the Grenfell Tower, a place that I had kind of played

in at the base of Grenfell Tower. There was a place called

Green Pitch, which is a football pitch.

You catch me there every day. And so when I started to see

images of, of the building in flames, you know, not knowing

the impact of that, not knowing the consequence of that at the

time, I just made a decision, I'm gonna book the first flight

home. So I got back early in the morning of the 15th.

It came back to absolute chaos. This still burning building

with, with people running around trying to find their children,

trying to find their, their mothers, their friends. And so

in those moments, people took to the streets in search for

justice, for understanding and in search for solace.

It was in those moments that nature came to my rescue. It all

started with just picking up litter from this, this barren

derelict patch of land.

People would see me and they would come and join me and that

would then create a softer access point to having

conversations. And there was something so unique about how

nature allowed people to connect despite you know, their

differences.

It doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, your age,

your culture, your background, your religion, this garden was

welcoming to all. That, that epitomises Ladbroke Grove. You

know, this was just the way that we were instinctively reacting

to something so traumatic, something so tragic where 72

people had lost their lives. Nature just became the the

healer for all.

KATE MARTIN: When people think of a community garden, they

might not necessarily think of an open access area, they might

think it's not really for them. So how important is it for you

that people do recognize that this area is for anybody.

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: There's these perceptions around who can

be a gardener, who can be in nature that are really divisive

and offensive and not so kind and, and I guess by existing in

that space, I was breaking those barriers down, but I still felt

a sense of oh like this doesn't feel familiar.

What will my friends think of me? How have I got from playing

football to now, you know, planting flowers and it's just

about building those bridges and connecting people in with these

spaces so that they feel like they have a sense of place.

You know, if you think about someone, who's living in

Trellick Tower who's in, like, let's say survival mode, you

know, maybe there, you know, just trying to put food on the

table, you know, what business do they have, you know, what

time do they have in bringing their kids to this space or

coming down to this space?

Well, actually, we need to all work as a community collectively

to try and create that capacity for people to engage a space

like this. To better their mental health, their physical

health, their well being, you know, air pollution and having a

say in that, having a say on wildlife and biodiversity and

creating these corridors for pollinators and wildlife and

insects to, to exist, you know, because it's all about

coexistence and these spaces allow that.

So we've got to see ourselves as part of the ecosystem rather

than outside of it.

KATE MARTIN: I think nature is a common language. There's

something sort of primal in all of us, doesn't matter where you

are, what your background is. You know, I think everybody

feels moved in some way when you're out in a place such as

this.

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Nature is a right. It's not a luxury. It's

just about making people feel comfortable in that. You may see

concrete every day, but look at the tree as you walk past it,

look at its form, look at the leaves. It's just about engaging

your, your senses really.

You know, and I make the link between, like with my boys, we

all grew up playing football in parks, using trees as goalposts

and you know, your bent shot going into a bush and you have

to wade through it.

All of that is access to nature. It's just about changing the way

that we see it, the way that we think about it and every one of

those experiences, no matter how big or small they're all so

important, we all deserve safe healing, beautiful space.

KATE MARTIN: You know, because you're doing it on the ground,

grassroots, you must see that direct impact it has on people's

lives.

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: I kind of see myself on the side of the

fence of the people that I'm trying to help. I live in a

council flat with two young children - access to nature is

limited. I struggle to find capacity within my own

situation, let alone what I'm advocating for.

So I'm a bit of a hypocrite in ways but seeing how some of the

projects, some of the activations, some of the

campaigns and the impact that it's had on community has been

really heartwarming.

We did a, a garden in a local school. There's a green roof in

there. There's lots of trees, there's fruiting trees and

shrubs and bushes.

The children use it every day and when I go in there to do a

bit of maintenance work where we have to shut it off, maybe for

an hour they'll all be with their faces up to the fence

going like, can we have our garden back? Like, and that

really speaks to that sense of ownership and the communities

that it benefits, they should be involved in that.

KATE MARTIN: We've walked through all these beautiful

gardens and they're really varied. We went through one that

I like a tiled floor and everything. It was amazing. And

now we finished up in what can be decided is a beautiful sunny

little courtyard. It's absolutely gorgeous.

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: This is actually a seat that I was I

helped build.

KATE MARTIN: Oh amazing, it's like a planter bench.

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Yeah. So the idea is taking some really

simple materials to create nature immersion. And just to

sit down and relax and have a chat.

KATE MARTIN: Fantastic! And we're surrounded by herbs

mainly, some chives.

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: You've got thyme over here. Rub your hands

through that.

KATE MARTIN: I love that smell.

So is there ways that people can kind of bring nature into their

space indoors?

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: A window sill can bring so much beauty

and so much produce. It could also enable wildlife. But then

there's also balconies or rooftops. Rooftops often have

full sun so great for growing stuff then and also shared

space. And if space doesn't feel shared or is gated, ask the

question, get to know your neighbours, get to know people

in your community.

But I, I always say that the first point of access comes from

understanding and observation. And so this is something that I

like to call the small space revolution. And when we talk

about space, we're talking about spatial space, we're talking

about mental space, spiritual space. It's all about really

creating that capacity.

KATE MARTIN: If someone says'garden' to me, I do think

of somebody's perfectly manicured lawns with lovely

little perfectly regimented plants that go all around it.

But I think one of the things that you've described so

beautifully as you've gone through today is that a garden

can be anything. And I suppose it's about just changing that

mindset.

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: And it's really just creating those easy

entry points for people to understand that it's not take a

step into, you already are nature. You're already part of

the garden.

But we have to help people on that journey really support the

most marginalized people and the most disconnected people and the

most detached people from nature.

KATE MARTIN: Then once you've opened that door, then they can

find their own path from there, can't they?

TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Exactly. And hopefully that path is full

of flowers and bees and butterflies.

KATE MARTIN: Fingers crossed.

Community gardens are an incredible access point for

nature and urban landscapes. I'd like to explore the idea of

bringing nature inside our homes and growing in more challenging

spaces.

I've headed east and come to Hackney, a London borough that

makes me think of music, art, great bars, pubs, restaurants,

and very cool creative residents. But surprisingly,

it's also home to a unique National Trust property.

One of London's last remaining Tudor Houses. Sutton House is a

three story red brick building that as you can hear buses, cars

and bikes whiz past on the busy road it sits on. It's opposite a

college and within walking distance to a hospital, it

really is an unexpected gem. And even more unexpected is the

award winning garden next door that just 10 years ago was an

industrial wasteland. And that's what I've come to see.

Hello, you must be Ryan.

RYAN MACMAHON: Hi, Kate. Good to see you.

KATE MARTIN: You too. So you're the site manager here at Sutton

House. So tell me a bit about it.

RYAN MACMAHON: Yes, that's right. So Sutton House is

originally a Tudor residence. It was built in 1535. It's

undergone a lot of changes since then. It's been a school. It's

been a church institute and in the 1980s, it was used as a

squat by the local community.

KATE MARTIN: So the history of the house sounds very

interesting. But what I've come to see is the garden.

RYAN MACMAHON: Well, we can go through these gates and I've

also got Chris who is one of our garden volunteers.

KATE MARTIN: Hello, Chris, nice to meet you.

CHRIS : Hello Kate, and you.

KATE MARTIN: The first thing I noticed are these big metal

industrial looking gates.

RYAN MACMAHON: Yes. So these gates are a hint to the

industrial past of this space. So it was actually used as a car

breaker yard in the 1990s and early 2000s before being given

to the National Trust.

KATE MARTIN: And it is a really interesting garden. I can't see

any grass, but I can see fantastic paved walkway and

plants grown in every conceivable type of container,

including what looked like cattle troughs, old trailers.

There's tyres.

CHRIS : Yes. Being that it was a breaker's yard, the grounds very

contaminated. So that's why they're all in containers.

KATE MARTIN: Well, I'm keen to see more of this Chris as we

sort of move on in. I imagine that there were probably all the

challenges working in this sort of environment.

CHRIS : I mean, with everything in needs to be in planters,

there's a lot of watering. And the ground, you know, it's

gravel, it all gets quite hot at times and you find the plants

start drying out and things you need to keep on top of them and

we've got a quite a bit of sun around here at the moment.

But the problem is in this area in the city, it does get shaded

by other buildings. So you have to be careful what plants you

plant. So they thrive. I mean, it's quite an interesting one

here, which is a curry plant.

You might be able to smell it, it is quite powerful.

KATE MARTIN: Oh, wow. Really strong, almost looks like sort

of pasty lavender. But it smells very different and it seems to

grow very nicely in it in its trailer.

One of the things that I am absolutely blown away by is the

trees. You don't really think about trees growing in pots or,

or containers. And in fact, is that a palm tree?

CHRIS : Yeah, there's a palm type tree.

KATE MARTIN: I was not expecting to see a palm tree in London.

CHRIS : It really is a reference to what was in Hackney in the

18th and 19th century - the Loddiges nurseries and they were

a family who had nurseries and they bought plants from around

the world and set up greenhouses and glass houses off Mayer

Street.

KATE MARTIN: I think people think of when they're thinking

about gardens, think about National Trust Gardens and they

think about these massive spaces and there's like, you know, a

nice shrub there and then there's a nice shrub there. And

this just shows that, you know, you can think vertically as well

as horizontally when you planted gardens and it's particularly

important in urban places like this.

CHRIS : That's the thing really.

KATE MARTIN: So what's really sad to me is that Friends of the

Earth estimate that roughly one in five of us in the UK are

deprived of green space. And I found that absolutely

heartbreaking. But I think this garden is such a great example

of how you can grow and actually get plants to absolutely thrive

in quite an unusual industrial urban space. So, is there any

other plants that grow well sort of, in confined spaces, indoors?

CHRIS : Yes mint is a good plant

RYAN MACMAHON: If you want to follow me through to the

courtyard.

KATE MARTIN: Oh, wow. What a completely different space.

RYAN MACMAHON: Yeah. Really unexpected here in the middle of

the building. It's not quite silent but it's as quiet as you

could hope to get in a bustling part of London like Hackney.

KATE MARTIN: Loads and loads of plants. There's a bay tree

behind me in a big planter, a beautiful holly tree over there.

But I'm intrigued by the mint.

CHRIS : You get a great variety of different mints. You get the

usual ones like spear mint. But our most interesting one,

probably the chocolate mint.

KATE MARTIN: Oo Chocolate mint.

CHRIS : I'll just take a leaf off. See what you think.

KATE MARTIN: Roll it, gonna get the oils out.

Chocolate is exactly what it smells like. Smells just like an

After Eight or a Twilight.

So, what else have we got?

SPK_5: Well, it's quite an interesting one along here,

actually. It is actually very strong and it's a bit

reminiscent of certain toilet cleaners.

KATE MARTIN: You're really selling it! Oh, wow. Yeah, I get

it. It just smells like really lemony. I mean, I would have

said maybe lemon grass or lemon balm and not toilet cleaner.

Each to their own. Is mint good for growing in containers?

CHRIS : Yeah, I mean, it's quite a hardy plant and really, you

need to put it in a container. You shouldn't really put it in

the ground because it will spread and then it's quite

difficult to get rid of, it takes over your garden.

KATE MARTIN: And I think obviously what's great about

mint particularly is, you know, I'm assuming most of these are

edible. Yeah. So you can grow it on your windowsill, do a bit of

cooking. Or if you like me, enjoy a nice Mojito

CHRIS : You can get it from supermarkets and then just keep

growing.

KATE MARTIN: Yes it doesn't have to be expensive. I mean, I've

inherited plants, you know, particularly a lot of the indoor

plants like aloe vera or spider plants, somebody will have one

and you just take a cutting and, you know, it's a case of paying

for a plastic pot, a little bit of compost and off you go.

CHRIS : And I mean, that's what you can do with many plants. So

you can propagate them just by taking a fresh leaf off and

then, you know, sometimes just putting them in a bit of soil

and keeping the water and see how they go.

KATE MARTIN: Yeah, you can try these things and see what works

and learn from your mistakes as we all do as gardeners.

CHRIS : That's it yes.

KATE MARTIN: I actually look after a Tudor house with gardens

up north. It doesn't look like this in any way, shape or form.

And I think this is just eye opening and wonderful to see

what you have managed to do in a really unusual space, growing in

a really different way. So thank you both so much for showing me

around, it's been an absolute pleasure.

Spending the morning with Tayshan in the Meanwhile Gardens

and then coming to see the work here that's done in the

Breaker's Yard has really opened my eyes to what can be grown in

what are quite unconventional and small urban places.

I'm a ranger and you know, for us, we like to let nature grow

where it wants to, how it wants to. But that isn't something

that can be done necessarily in these urban areas.

So being able to see what can be done in these small places and

seeing the benefit that has to the people who live here, to the

communities and also for the climate in general is absolutely

inspirational.

Thank you for listening to the National Trust podcast. If you'd

like to learn how to garden in unconventional or urban spaces,

please check out the links and resources in our episode show

notes or search for gardening tips on our website. To make

sure you get new episodes of this podcast, follow or

subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be back soon.

But for now from me, Kate Martin, goodbye.

Fill your garden with beauty and heritage with the National Trust

Native Tree Collection, specially created by Blue

Diamond Garden Centres. Working together for the Love Of Nature.