PB-E17 DISCUSS 061724 ===

Paul Adelstein: [00:00:00] I'm Sarah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I'm Paul. And we're just checking to make sure you're listening.

Paul Adelstein: Because at this point, you actually are. We're, we're, we're pretty deep into the season. And um, like we were, uh, during season one of Prison Break itself. By this point in the season we were actually making the show while the show was already airing.

Paul Adelstein: And there was, that was very exciting.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It was cool. And this is fascinating for us because we're like reading your comments on our Instagram and email and everything at the same time that we're putting together these episodes. So it feels like there's a sort of organic feedback thing going on. We like it is what we're saying.

Paul Adelstein: Yes. And also, um, when this show started, um, the kind of. Uh, internetting along with [00:01:00] your favorite TV show was a pretty new phenomenon and, uh, we all kind of got to experience the beginning of that in real time and that was exciting. But we are. We're really grateful you're here listening with us. The feedback has been great and, um, we're just so glad you're tuning in as an expression I'll use even though that might not be what you're doing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And while we're, forgive me, Paul, I know you're going to hate this, um, but just because like of the gratitude side, it's been really lovely to do this with you. You know, we don't get a chance to spend that much time together and gotten more. This is like actually probably the most time we spent together since we did the show.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I'm happy about it, and I know you can't take a compliment any better than I can, so we'll move on. You're like inner, uh, neurotic person is dying right now. So I also want to briefly, uh, shout out our producer, Ben Haber, who has learned how to do literally everything podcast related for this show that is way beneath his level of uh, [00:02:00] experience and creativity, um, and expertise.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And he's been amazing. Yes. A star about it.

Paul Adelstein: Yes. Thank you, Ben. He is our fearless leader and, uh, he takes the brunt of the work and we get to do the fun part. And, um, because you can't take a compliment either, uh, take, take my, my, um, love and appreciation for doing this because it's just so, it's great spending time with you and chatting about this stuff.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Aw.

Paul Adelstein: I appreciate us doing this together. It's been a joy. Also want to give a shout out while we're doing it and feeling grateful to John Nanciano who designed our logo. Speaking of, uh, doing work kind of below his pay grade, um, what he did for us is incredible. The logo is so cool, and it's going to make for great merch and great prizes for our contest.

Paul Adelstein: And he put up with a little bit of, um, actor neuroses while making our logo. And it was kind of better than we dreamed it could be. Okay,

Sarah Wayne Callies: um, enough now, we're gonna do the [00:03:00] index before somebody thinks that this is like a Smurfs rewatch.

Paul Adelstein: Smurf me some of that calestine. I

Sarah Wayne Callies: would smurfing love to. This episode is called J Cat, uh, it was written by

Paul Adelstein: Which stands for Do you know what it stands for?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, no. Do you know what it stands for?

Paul Adelstein: Okay. It did. It was mentioned in a previous episode. It has something to do with the cyborg, right? Yeah, yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: it does. I don't know, um, I don't know what it stands for, but I bet the fans will write in and tell us. Uh, this was another one written beautifully by Karen Usher, directed by the great Guy Ferland, who we'll talk about later.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It first aired on April 10, 2006, to a rating of 8. 12 million viewers. In the 8 p. m. slot now, uh, because 24 took over Fox's 9 p. m. Monday night time slot. Damn you, Kiefer Sutherland. So we were now up against Wife Swap on ABC, King of Queens on CBS, and Deal or No Deal on NBC.

Paul Adelstein: A summary of the plot reads, [00:04:00] Sarah reports finding the uniform material on Michael's wound.

Paul Adelstein: Pope sends Michael to solitary. Michael feigns insanity. Bellic decides to hire professional workers for the guard room. Sucre covers the escape hole and gets caught out of his cell. Also sent to solitary. Michael is taken to the psych ward. His plan is to speak with Charles

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oshc, I think

Paul Adelstein: AKA Charles Oshc, AKA Highwire, a haywire who can help him with his damaged tattoo.

Paul Adelstein: LJ tracks kellerman down at his house and ambushes him alone, and the police arrive and arrest lj.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's a lot. Uh, okay. Pop culture at this time. On April 5th, beloved host Katie Couric announced that she would be living leaving the Today Show to anchor CBS Evening news. Um, which was, I mean, at least for me, it was kind of the end of an era.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Like, today's show was on while we had breakfast for, like, basically my whole childhood. Really? Um, April 8th, a couple days later, started Daniel Powder's five week reign on the Billboard [00:05:00] 100 with his single, Bad Day.

Paul Adelstein: Don't know the song, don't know the artist.

Sarah Wayne Callies: What's gotta be, did you have a bad day, tell me don't, no?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Is that not him? Oh. Because I was just, by the way, I apologize for butchering that song, but I feel like you would sing that really well. On April 9th, golfer Phil Mickelson won the 70th Masters Tournament, his second of three wins.

Paul Adelstein: In world events on April 10th, former Enron chief executive Jeff Skilling came out swinging in the first moment of his testimony at federal district court in Houston, declaring, I am absolutely

Fast Forward: innocent.

Fast Forward: I am absolutely

Paul Adelstein: innocent. Iran announced it had successfully enriched uranium, raising international concerns. About a nuclear program.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Speaking of explosives, here's a rewatch clip. Oh my god, it's Avocado.

Paul Adelstein: Oh my god, that man is large.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That's why they named him Avocado.

Paul Adelstein: I remember getting this script and just being in heaven.

Paul Adelstein: Just an absolute actor heaven. [00:06:00]

Fast Forward: That's how you get undressed. That's how I get undressed. I

Paul Adelstein: just rip my clothes, I just rip clothes off. It's like, what do you mean? You're gonna take the time to pull it over your head. Yo, buttons,

Sarah Wayne Callies: no.

Paul Adelstein: Come on, buttons are for children.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Crazy. I remember hearing that alcoholics sometimes have a sweet tooth.

Paul Adelstein: You're like, I'm going for that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I was like, we're going for the cake. I think I had cake and chocolate milk. I'm not even sure you said that. See it. I think this is just, just for me. What's the plan here, LJ?

Paul Adelstein: Well, he's got a gun.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, he's gonna go do crimes. I'm so relieved that Andy Rothenberg isn't in these scenes, because if I found out that he was, and we were in a scene together, and I forgot about it, I'd feel like such a jerk.

Paul Adelstein: Wow. Okay, and with that, we'll be right back to talk about it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Welcome back, fishes. Let's talk about this episode. Okay, you got notes. I got notes about, um, Owen Kravecky. I gotta say, Kellerman in [00:07:00] character is one of my favorite things about this entire show. Obviously, my favorite is Lance, um, but please tell me about Owen Krovecki.

Paul Adelstein: You know, it was, it's one of the, it's one of those great acting lessons where I think we've talked about this early, you know, when you get somebody like Sarah or Kellerman in a pilot, there's not a lot of information there.

Paul Adelstein: So you kind of make up a person. And then as you go forward. And I don't, I don't, I don't imagine the writers knew any, there was going to be an Owen Kravacki as they started breaking the season. I mean, maybe they did. But, um, I certainly wasn't filled in on it, and it's one of those, again, I, we're gonna, we keep talking about theater acting.

Paul Adelstein: You know, when you do a play, it, it doesn't change, it's, it's the same. You know, you, you know everything there is to know. So it's kind of a Bible, and it's kind of like, all the information you need is there. And when you're doing a movie, it can change as you go along. But TV is really the only standard.

Paul Adelstein: Like, continually serialized form where you get information about your character, [00:08:00] sometimes deep into a run where he's like, oh, I, I, you know, I came up with this thing, I'm from North Carolina, da da da. Are you telling

Sarah Wayne Callies: me you didn't have on your bingo card that you were a buffalo jerky salesman? So exciting to get.

Paul Adelstein: The script and see that and say, oh, now I get to do this. And then there was the kind of actor insecurity of like, do I have to pretend to be a different guy? How would I do it? And da. Right. And I remember Guy being super helpful with that. And guy's, the director of this episode, oh guy's, director of the episode.

Paul Adelstein: 'cause you know, it's kind of a funny scene. He's pushing Buffalo Turkey on this cop. Um, and what you, you know, and what I remembered is that, you know, people with. Maybe, um, personality disorders are good at manipulating people. So wait, is that a Kellerman has a

Sarah Wayne Callies: personality disorder? I mean, I think

Paul Adelstein: he has some sociopathological bellic.

Paul Adelstein: He murders a lot of people. He murders a lot of

Sarah Wayne Callies: people. Yeah, yeah.

Paul Adelstein: And it starts [00:09:00] ramping up. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the kind of detachment that he needs in order to do his job.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I mean, in theory, he would have killed LJ. Do you think he would have killed LJ had the police not intervened?

Paul Adelstein: I mean, he had a gun on him.

Paul Adelstein: It's a good question.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Um, and it's a good question. Probably. Probably. I

Sarah Wayne Callies: mean.

Paul Adelstein: Um, and made it look like, you know, he had broken in or whatever as he, as he actually had enough to make it look like. Right. It's just great when you get something like, when you're playing somebody and you get stuff to do like that and, and all you really have to do is execute what's given you and everybody says, Oh, your character is so three dimensional.

Paul Adelstein: And you're like, that's because they made me pretend to be a whole different guy.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And you didn't chew the scenery with it. Do you know what I mean? There's a version where it's like, Oh, I'm Owen Kravecky and I sell buffalo jerky. Do you know what I mean? Like you go full Fargo. Right. Um, which by the way, I love everything about Fargo.

Sarah Wayne Callies: At least the movie, I've never seen the TV show, but, um, But I, I, you know, as with most things with [00:10:00] your performance, the restraint, actually, is part of what worked, because he just felt super believable.

Paul Adelstein: Um, well, as long as we're on that scene, Um, it was the first time I was ever squibbed, and it was on my shoulder.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So you gotta not look in that direction.

Paul Adelstein: And you gotta really not look in that direction. And the first time you're squibbed, it's fine, because it surprises you. The second time you're squibbed, you know it's coming, and it's like being slapped on camera. It's

Sarah Wayne Callies: hard to not anticipate it. It's almost impossible not to flinch.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. Um, but, you know, it was right next to my ear and all that, and it was blood, and it was so fun. Did it

Sarah Wayne Callies: get hot? Sometimes they get hot, the charges. No?

Paul Adelstein: I don't recall it getting hot. But I remember it had to be relatively large because that was a wool overcoat I was wearing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: And it had to rip a hole in it.

Fast Forward: Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Um, they also had two, at least two, maybe three? And I remember Rachel and Lizzie, and I can't remember the

Sarah Wayne Callies: Rachel and Lizzie. In hair and makeup? [00:11:00] Wardrobe. Okay.

Paul Adelstein: No wardrobe.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay.

Paul Adelstein: We're like, um, yeah, one of these is scripted and then we have an extra and Fox doesn't need it back. So, do you want an overcoat?

Paul Adelstein: I was like, oh yeah, I love an overcoat.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I have that overcoat. I think I still have it. Do you know what's funny? I actually have a Dr. Tancredi overcoat too. I don't remember how it came. Those days are over, by the way. They are. Oh, no. Yeah. Now they can't. You can't. Uh, nothing falls off the truck anymore.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: And for the, for the audience, um, listening, they used to do a thing that was totally sanctioned where they would allow you to purchase your clothes, kind of a cut rate. And then sometimes they would just give stuff to you. And then a lot of times it would just go into a warehouse and then, um, executives and their families would just go in and pick stuff up.

Paul Adelstein: I think those days. I think now with corporate oversight, that stuff is over.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I, you know, on my, I did a show for NBC a few years back and I, my character had all these great sweaters. They were like, yeah, you can buy them for 50 cents on the dollar. And I was like, okay. And that's when I [00:12:00] discovered that half of my sweaters were like $700.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not, yeah, no, I don't want, I'm not somebody who spends $300 on a sweater.

Paul Adelstein: I was on a show, um, a couple years ago playing Kevin Hart's manager on a show where he kind of played himself, uh, based on a real guy who loves, who's kind of a sneakerhead. And, um, Kevin's a sneakerhead.

Paul Adelstein: And I was, so every day, almost every day, I was wearing a different pair of Jordans. Amazing

Sarah Wayne Callies: shoes.

Paul Adelstein: And I would like look them up. And you know, the guys on set that knew this stuff would be like, Oh, those are the 86 North Carolina. Totally. And I would look them up and they'd be like

Sarah Wayne Callies: 2, 800. That's bananas to me.

Paul Adelstein: They're beautiful. I don't know if I'd pay that much.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Did you keep any of them?

Paul Adelstein: Oh, no. That was, they were very, um, they were, it was like. There was people watching them at all times, it felt like.

Sarah Wayne Callies: What are you here for? I'm, I'm here to guard the

Paul Adelstein: sneakers. Oh. I'm

Sarah Wayne Callies: the, I'm

Paul Adelstein: the sneaker, I'm the sneaker wrangler.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Sneaker wrangler. [00:13:00]

Paul Adelstein: I just wanted to make a, something, something occurred to me in this episode, um, that may be obvious, but they do a really interesting thing with Hope, with the warden, and it's been going on throughout, but it especially goes here, you know, when Michael says, you've been good to me and my brother.

Paul Adelstein: It's sincere. Uh huh. Uh huh. You know, she's not a bad guy, and they've humanized him with, obviously, with the story about his illegitimate son, drug addiction and Toledo and all that. But he does seem like, he's tough, but he does seem like a fair guy, and he kind of believes in what he's trying to do, and I think a lot of shows would have just made him.

Paul Adelstein: Kind of like a Shawshank Monster.

Sarah Wayne Callies: The Sheriff.

Paul Adelstein: And then, and so my point is, I think that it's such an interesting, it's so interesting how these writers make characters that are kind of brutalizing the leads more sympathetic. Even Kellerman, [00:14:00] once you've introduced Michelle Forbes character. Brinker

Sarah Wayne Callies: makes him look.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It makes him,

Paul Adelstein: you, you don't, I don't know if it's sympathy, but you see that this guy now has, he had no, I had no, there was no obstacles for Kellerman before. It was just, he could just kind of move through the world. And now he doesn't know the vice president's been nipped, even she, who has this kind of, um, ulterior motive, almost evil motive with her brother.

Paul Adelstein: Now she's having her, uh, stuff questioned and, and, and she's being, she's being, she's Forced into a corner, and so it just makes everybody more conflicted, makes them more human.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, and I, one of the things I really liked is you, when you say this was always about you and your family, and most importantly, the country, there's something about that that.

Paul Adelstein: I specifically asked for that. I

Sarah Wayne Callies: wondered because I looked it up and I was like, Hmm, that's not in the script that I had.

Paul Adelstein: It's not?

Sarah Wayne Callies: No. What I like about it is [00:15:00] all of a sudden you become an ideologue. Like, this is a man who believes in something. He may do bad things for it, but he's not somebody who's just about his own agenda.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, no. And I think we talked about that in the, in the, maybe in the first episode or something that, you know, when I did, it's just, this is like Heek war on terror.

Fast Forward: Yep.

Paul Adelstein: And I did a lot of reading about special forces, a lot of reading about Secret Service, a lot of reading about people who enlisted after 9 11.

Paul Adelstein: You know, the sense of, um, I'm doing things outside, outside the law, but for a greater good. I think that's only, when you're looking for how can someone do what Kellerman is doing, well, he's either a psychopath. or he believes, he may have sociopathological tendencies, but he does, I think there's just no other way to do it other than he believes he's a patriot.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah,

Paul Adelstein: you know,

Sarah Wayne Callies: uh, small thing, when we had that first conversation about it, I, I think I said, I used to have this coin that was given to me by the Secret Service that trained me [00:16:00] on the Secret Service pilot that I did for ABC that went nowhere. Um, and I found like tucked away in a bunch of stuff I took from set, you know, just like papers and call sheets and stuff.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Uh, the Secret Service coin, which I am told beats any other coin if you put it down, um, with military folks. So I just, all these years, I've been like, I lost this thing and I feel terrible. So anyway, that's my stupid Secret Service story. I want to talk about Guy Ferland.

Paul Adelstein: Yes. Our director.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Our director. If memory serves, this was one of the, if not the, first episodes that he directed.

Sarah Wayne Callies: His career, his career was very, very, very new. And it was interesting because we had all these super experienced folks. And Guy, I tried to get him for this episode, but he's directing someplace far flung and in the wrong time zone. We'll have him on eventually because he's, you know, they had all these really high level [00:17:00] directors, the Brad Turners, the Mike Watkins, the Kevin Hooks, I mean, the people with big careers, most of whom were coming off of 24 or something else with Fox.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And Guy came in, knocked it out of the park, um, would go on to direct two episodes of the reboot in season five. But in the meantime Would come on The Walking Dead. He did a bunch of Sons of Anarchy. Um, and he did the episode on Walking Dead where my character died. And, so he's killed both of us. You and I.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes, he

Paul Adelstein: did that, he did the episode in season five where my character died.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, and he and I actually became really close during that episode. He was like, I want to go sit down and figure out how to do this properly, and it, and there's even a picture I think I posted on Instagram a couple years ago about like, he's lying on the ground with me while my character's dying.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It was just so, so, so sweet. And when it came time for me to say, okay, I need to learn how to direct, I called him and I said, can I shadow you? [00:18:00] And I ended up shadowing him on an episode of Timeless for NBC. Um, and he's kind of been a mentor ever since. So this is my Guy Ferland love letter. He's marvelous.

Sarah Wayne Callies: He did a beautiful job in this episode.

Paul Adelstein: In the thing where I died, I felt so empowered and Um, like he knew Kellerman. I was involved in a way that made me feel super comfortable and, um, not that I had felt marginalized or anything, but it was very collaborative suddenly and, and felt, and then became super fun.

Paul Adelstein: We just had so much fun. He's great with character. And this is meant, this is character like. I have to make a smoothie because there's a line about it, get a gun, go through the house, and then do a head shot and a gut shot, and it was a whole thing, and he was just wonderful. We had such a good time. And then I was on the plane with him on the way home, which was

Sarah Wayne Callies: a lot of fun.

Sarah Wayne Callies: By the way, speaking of Kellerman, and thanks [00:19:00] Kellerman, do you have a little show and tell? For us.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, yeah. Do

Sarah Wayne Callies: you want to do that? You want to

Paul Adelstein: do that here? Even though it's only audio?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, I mean, we can show people a clip later or something, but I think it would be cool like to fold into this Kellerman conversation and the things I unearthed from my attic conversation.

Paul Adelstein: I found a script, but that's not new. I found the things that Fox gave us to give to people.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, the headshots.

Paul Adelstein: The headshots. Yep. I found this. Your chair back. Chair back. I have every chair back ever, I think.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You know, I think I've got one somewhere too. What do you do with them? Do you like I put 'em in a, I put 'em in a box.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. I thought maybe you put chairs on.

Paul Adelstein: I,

Sarah Wayne Callies: look,

Paul Adelstein: look, no, I, and then I have this, which is, that's Brando's writing, not Marlon Brando, our

Sarah Wayne Callies: prop Masters. Oh, Brando. The props.

Paul Adelstein: These were, he's holding up an a, a glasses case. I'm holding up a sunglasses [00:20:00] case. These were the Kellerman sunglasses. If you put

Sarah Wayne Callies: them on, does the, does it go.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh my God, they look so good. Do you know how, you know,

Paul Adelstein: these are I so much research on this did because again, when you don't have a, when there's not a lot there, you kind of are like, okay, I gotta make up a guy. Right? I wanted to wear aviators, but I did not wanna wear the, the ray band. You know the

Fast Forward: Mm-Hmm

Paul Adelstein: The like flight by aviators.

Paul Adelstein: Right? These are like the sixties flyboy, right? Stuff. Aviators, Uhhuh , Don Draper wears. Oh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay.

Paul Adelstein: We're way before that. You

Sarah Wayne Callies: got there way before Don Draper.

Paul Adelstein: I know, but I almost posted a thing on Instagram, like a picture of Kellerman and a picture of Don Draper, like who wore it better, and it would be like, yeah, he wore it better.

Paul Adelstein: Um, he looks great. Um, that's Jon Hamm, everybody. That's Jon Hamm, everybody. But there is, growing up near my house in Chicago, there was a, um, there was a, uh, [00:21:00] Army Navy store with real, it was like when I think a lot of Vietnam guys sold their stuff to these Army Navy stores. Yeah, yeah. The surplus and stuff.

Paul Adelstein: All these uniforms, pins and, and, and sunglasses and all the surplus stuff or they got it from the Army. And I always loved that place. It was a great place. And. So there is one here, a famous one, that's like at Coanga and Melrose, where I would get these sunglasses and I brought these to, you know, it was a whole thing.

Paul Adelstein: I went to Matt and Paul, I was like, I think he should, don't make me, you know, a lot of times on TV, they don't want you wearing sunglasses.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's a reflection

Paul Adelstein: issue.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Answer your eyes. No. Well, they coated these. Oh,

Sarah Wayne Callies: okay.

Paul Adelstein: Um, and if they coat them, that means there won't be a reflection. The camera won't be reflected and there's a thing they can do.

Paul Adelstein: But I really fought. In the first couple episodes, like, please let him wear sunglasses outside. I mean, it's a thing.

Fast Forward: Uh huh.

Paul Adelstein: And they, they let me do it. And then the other thing was I went and found that cheek, that, um, uh, I also went and found the special [00:22:00] forces pin that Kelly wore on every suit, even though I think I had it on upside down, which is super embarrassing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We all make mistakes. But it would also,

Paul Adelstein: it was also a sign that, uh, for, um, uh, trouble, like if they wear it upside down. Oh,

Sarah Wayne Callies: yeah. Like a flag upside down, nation in distress. Uh huh.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then this, which, which I wore in every scene too.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, the Kellerman ring.

Paul Adelstein: Kellerman ring, which is, this is the 82nd Airborne ring.

Paul Adelstein: A lot of people A lot of special forces come from 82nd Airborne. And I found this ring in Chicago at one of the um, Army Navy stores. And I bought it. And it was one of those things where I was like, I just, to the props, I was like, please don't lose this. I need it. Yeah. But it was really one of those things where when I put my suit on and I put this ring on.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. What was that? That was

Sarah Wayne Callies: the guy.

Paul Adelstein: It was just mad, it was, there was something talisman magic about it, like I was just, I just felt like him.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, because you were so far, you're so different [00:23:00] from Kellerman. And I mean, that, which is not to say that Wentworth is Michael Schofield or Dom is Lincoln, but like, on every job there are people for whom the Venn diagram between themselves and their character.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Uh, is bigger.

Paul Adelstein: Getting to put on any kind of uniform, like such a defined, I know it was just a suit and tie, but that's what the Secret Service guys, that's the uniform, felt like armor. Also, I will also say this, walking on set, you know, if we were at the prison or, I was the only one in a suit.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. There's a status thing there.

Sarah Wayne Callies: People treat you differently. And you don't Stand up straight and all that. That was something that I was thinking about watching this episode, because this is really the episode where Tweener Uh, you know, we've seen him turn into the rat, but this is the first time that he really kind of gives something major away that could endanger [00:24:00] the dudes, the guys, the breakout team.

Sarah Wayne Callies: The Fox are great. And, um, you know, it makes me think about the way sometimes audiences conflate a character and the actor playing them, and how challenging that was for Lane. In his life, you know, and I'd love to talk to him, but at some point, obviously, when he was, you know, incarcerated himself, I think it became terrifying to him.

Sarah Wayne Callies: But even before that, it can be really odd to have fans hold you accountable for words you didn't write and character decisions that you don't make. And in some very perverse and weird way, the better you are at it, the more the audience Lose the ability to say, well, that's the actor and that's the character.

Paul Adelstein: I, I can't, it's one of the things that surprised me, [00:25:00] you know, the, the boundary thing surprised me when people started recognizing me. It made me think a lot about how it's scary it must be. As a woman.

Fast Forward: Mm hmm.

Paul Adelstein: Um, to be recognizable. Especially if you're playing somebody who's been sexual on screen. Super.

Paul Adelstein: But I also felt, I was super lucky that Kellerman was really the first thing I ever got recognized for.

Fast Forward: Mm hmm.

Paul Adelstein: Which, you know, no one was gonna come up and fuck with Kellerman. Yeah, I They'd come up and talk to you. They'd come up and talk to you. Right. That's really

Sarah Wayne Callies: interesting.

Paul Adelstein: I was friends I don't think I'm telling tales out of school, but I'm good friends with T.

Paul Adelstein: R. Knight, who plays a lovable character in Grey's Anatomy, and people would come up and pet him. And what hip? Pet. I mean, it was like, yeah, he's just like lovable, blah, blah, blah, blah, and so people just felt like, that's who he is, I can, it's George, I'm just gonna go up and grab him, and, you know. So I felt really [00:26:00] lucky that I played, you know, a killer.

Paul Adelstein: Someone with boundaries. You'd get recognized, but it didn't feel like that. Later, private practice, girlfriend's guy, a couple other things, I would get yelled at for, especially in romantic, like, why did you do that to blah, blah, blah. You know, I'm sure you've had it too, which can be fun and funny when it's not out of control.

Paul Adelstein: I mean, I've had people call me a

Sarah Wayne Callies: whore in front of my

Paul Adelstein: children

Sarah Wayne Callies: after Walking Dead. I mean, it's insanity. It's problematic for all kinds of reasons, including the Yes. The gender problems, whatever. But like, like, I developed a pat answer, which is

Paul Adelstein: Which is?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'm an actor. That's a role. This is my family. I'd like you to leave now.

Sarah Wayne Callies: But like, I mean, it just, it was crazy. And actually, for me, it was a bit of a head snapper, because Dr. Tancredi had almost a universally positive response from fans.

Paul Adelstein: Uh huh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And with Walking Dead, I was looking for somebody that would not be kind of the, you know, [00:27:00] the good girl. But when I got it, I was like, oh, I didn't quite expect the full, the full treatment.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Anyway, you know, I think about it, especially with Lane, um, and what that is like. And I, I'd love to chat with him about it. Um, I also have a whole list of things we never got to talk about way back from when we were watching The Skin in the Teeth because we got so involved with Mac. Um, you mentioned something about insane asylums and shooting, and J Cat takes place in an insane asylum.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, J Cat takes, yes. Which was a stage, I imagine.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um.

Paul Adelstein: Or was it at the prison? Was it at Joliet?

Sarah Wayne Callies: No. I seem to remember us shooting it in a different wing of the prison.

Paul Adelstein: Fox River, is that because of Fox TV? Did I literally just put that together? That that was kind of a little wink to Fox? Oh,

Sarah Wayne Callies: dear God in heaven.[00:28:00]

Sarah Wayne Callies: If you did, I did too. I honestly don't know. We got to ask Olmstead or Sherry.

Paul Adelstein: I've, just in the way that we were talking, and multiple people, the directors, writers, actors have all said, you know, you go into Juliet prison, where John Wayne Casey was, where people were put to death, which is a gothic looking building.

Paul Adelstein: You feel that stuff. It's different. There's some kind of thing there. Well, a lot of times, because healthcare industry is so healthy in America, there's a lot of abandoned hospitals. And a lot of times you go and shoot in abandoned hospitals because there's obviously a lot of space. I've done that a bunch of times.

Paul Adelstein: And then I've shot in, in a, uh, Cycord? Cycord. Yeah. Insane Asylum. Is that the proper? Mental hospital, I suppose. Yeah, I don't

Sarah Wayne Callies: know what the

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, shot in a mental hospital on Roosevelt Island in New York. [00:29:00] Amauda used to live on Roosevelt Island, which is crazy. There's like two apartment buildings

Sarah Wayne Callies: on

Paul Adelstein: Roosevelt Island.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, apparently

Sarah Wayne Callies: he lived

Paul Adelstein: in one of them. You already feel isolated and weird. Roosevelt

Sarah Wayne Callies: Island, for those who don't know, is in the middle of, what is it, the Hudson River?

Paul Adelstein: Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And it's like, it's weird. It's this itty bitty island.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, but it was this abandoned hospital. And like, literally, there's like water and Like in the, in the basement and, and we're filming a comedy.

Paul Adelstein: Oh

Sarah Wayne Callies: no, you're doing a comedy?

Paul Adelstein: CBS, half hour comedy. Oh, dang. And, um, I, my character was having a funny operation. And, uh, I was playing Debra Messing's husband. And we went to lunch and I was in a hospital gown. And we go down into the basement to eat lunch, and it is creepy, like, And in wheelchairs with one wheel spinning, like, she goes like, Creepy.

Fast Forward: It's the worst.

Paul Adelstein: And then we, after lunch, we get into the freight elevator to go upstairs. It's me, and probably twelve, [00:30:00] Teamsters, New York crew, none of whom I know, and we get stuck between floors.

Fast Forward: Oh,

Sarah Wayne Callies: shit.

Paul Adelstein: And I don't know if you've ever been stuck on an elevator.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Uh, mercifully no, and I'm knocking all kinds of wood right now.

Paul Adelstein: And this is like, in a hospital where you're like, this place, I mean, they're running, there's no electricity here, they're running a generator. Right, this is a

Sarah Wayne Callies: Jenny.

Paul Adelstein: The whole building, and we were in there like, not a short period of time.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And you're in a hospital.

Paul Adelstein: And I had that whole thing of like, they're gonna come in here and, they're gonna come in here and think I'm a, like a scapegoat, you know, proof that I'm, you know, yeah, it was really, and then you had to go do like a, the lightest, funniest scene.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, I can't, I mean, I've shot quite a lot in very notorious places in Vancouver, which is called Riverview. Which is a former, so it's a former mental institution, but it's, it's a complex. It's many buildings. And it is in fact, I've been told it's the, at any given time, there's like three or four shows [00:31:00] shooting there.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's one of the most active filming sites around. Um, and it's haunted as fuck. And one of the stories that I heard from, I was directing in a building. And the sound mixer was like, just don't go downstairs. And I was like, what do you mean? And he goes, these floors are okay, but downstairs isn't okay. And I said, okay, everybody's got stories, but like, are they real?

Sarah Wayne Callies: And he goes, oh yeah, here's what happened to me. He said, when I started out, I was a boom operator. And my sound mixer said, uh, There's something going on downstairs, I'm getting an echo, please go make sure that all the doors are closed to the rooms. So you know, it's a, it's a, it's a ward, right? So there's a dozen doors or something.

Sarah Wayne Callies: He walks down the hall, closes them all, turns to go up the stairs, legit hears something, feels a breeze on his neck, turns around, all 12 doors are open again. And he just went upstairs and he's like, somebody else is going to have to close those doors, I'm never going back down there. Like, it [00:32:00] is, one of the things I love about our jobs is we get to shoot in all kinds of crazy places.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I've shot in Masonic temples, I've shot in cathedrals, like, it's crazy.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: But there are times where you're like, Oh, I need a psychic bath when I am done here because this is not okay.

Paul Adelstein: All right. I want your top. One occurs to me, but I want to hear your favorite, not favorite, but like, Oh my God, I can't believe I get to be in this space.

Paul Adelstein: Just real quick, top of your head.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, oof. I mean, honestly, I think the closest that I would come is this crazy Masonic temple because I've always been really curious about what's in there. And we got to shoot in one in DC, you know, like a real big deal one, again, for this failed Secret Service pilot that Clark Johnson directed.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I always say I starred in the first thing Clark ever shot that failed. We've been friends ever since. But it was amazing to just kind of look around at this place. And every time you took a step offset. There would be someone from the temple being [00:33:00] like, you can't go down here. You can't. Please go back to where you, you can't go down here.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So of course, my husband waited until everybody was focused on something else and like, went prowling and, you know, discovered it in there, pinched it every single, like, reconned. Um, yeah. How about you?

Paul Adelstein: Um, two come to mind. And one was. I'm an enormous Bulls fan and they won their first championship in L. A.

Paul Adelstein: at the Forum against the Lakers and I got to shoot on the floor, not during a game, um, I think, had Staples already been built? Maybe Staples had just been built, but the Forum was still there and it was still the Lakers floor. We got to shoot on that floor and I went and stood like where Jordan stood when they won Paxon shot those shots to hit three.

Paul Adelstein: That's cool. I had to do that. And then also on a different movie, also in L. A., we shot next to the abandoned, now torn down Ambassador Hotel. Mmm. But our lunch was in the Ambassador, [00:34:00] and that's where Bobby Kennedy, Bobby, where Bobby Kennedy was killed. Wow. Kitchen. Wow. We all, we broke in. We, we, we like snuck into the kitchen.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, and we of course have stories about the grassy knoll in Dallas when we get there. I will say, you know, the, I have pictures of me on the grassy knoll. I know you do. Um, the coda to that actually, not a coda, but another answer, I think, we got to shoot on a real live, uh, C 130, um, giant aircraft, for season four, on a, um, Oh Lord.

Sarah Wayne Callies: on a runway. And that was, that was pretty bananas to be like, oh, thank you for lending this to us, Air Force. Um, that was amazing.

Paul Adelstein: Did we talk about the show enough?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think so, a little bit. I don't really have too many more notes on the show.

Paul Adelstein: I have something about avocados. Is that a thing? Why was that guy called Avocado?

Paul Adelstein: For no apparent reason, just, that's just a scary nickname. Maybe

Sarah Wayne Callies: because he was shaped like an avocado?

Paul Adelstein: Okay. [00:35:00] I don't know. Um, I only had one other thing to talk about, but we're kind of out of time, we can push it to next time. We're

Sarah Wayne Callies: pretty close, but do you wanna, you wanna try it?

Paul Adelstein: No, we're gonna talk about eating on film, but we can, we can do that later.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm, mm hmm. Yeah. Did we not do that? I feel like I told a story about that. The Walking Dead story? You, well,

Paul Adelstein: uh,

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeesh.

Paul Adelstein: No, save it for next time.

Sarah Wayne Callies: All right. Um, okay. Well, with that, we'll be right back.

Paul Adelstein: And we are back. And we're back. Um, okay. So, this was sort of show and tell week. I showed some of my original props here. And um, Sarah has a bit of a surprise for us. It's uh, what do you got there? Fan mail. Is that right?

Sarah Wayne Callies: So, okay. I found some fan mail from season one that I had found and answered and kept.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, and I looked through some of it. I found this one letter that was kind of cool, so I wanted to share it with you guys as part of our sort of fan wrap ups. Um, and in some ways, this is another [00:36:00] sort of artifact of pop culture in the mid 2000s, because fans would write to you, and as you just, you know, showed us, and Fox would issue us in character headshots, they would write to us, and we would sign the headshot and send it back to them.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And like, I remember once a month. You know, they would dump off a big thing of fan mail, and my husband and I would sit there and answer it, and, uh, that doesn't really happen so much. What, like, okay, here's a question. Although I got

Paul Adelstein: one last week.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Did you?

Paul Adelstein: My manager, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: But what do people ask you for now?

Paul Adelstein: An autograph. Do they? Or they'll include a picture to be signed, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Because to me, everybody wants selfies. That's, like, selfies have replaced the autograph in my experience. Of course. Of course. Of course. That makes sense. Which is interesting. Interesting. Okay, so here's. Here's a letter, and I'm going to read the whole thing, and if we decide to cut some we can.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, to Sarah Wayne Calley's care of the William Morris Agency, [00:37:00] uh, which is where I was at the time. Dear Sarah, I am a Chief Petty Officer in the United States Navy, stationed onboard a submarine home ported in Kings Bay Naval Submarine Base in Georgia, and a huge fan. We will be deploying very soon, and I would be honored to receive an autographed photo of you to display on our submarine.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Onboard the submarine while deployed at sea, the entertainment world provides us one of our only sources. And reminder of home. We're currently looking to decorate our cruise lounge with autographed celebrity photos. The cruise lounge is the only place the sailors of the crew can go to watch movies, listen to music, and read magazines.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Time off is at a premium while underway, and the movies and magazines are a source of great pleasure and the only way the crew can unwind. We're hoping you would help us out by sending us any autographed photos. any autograph photographs so that we can frame them and display them on the walls and in the display case that has been designed to hold mementos obtained by the crew.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We're very proud of the limited space we have. We would be very proud to display your autograph photo on [00:38:00] the submarine. Thanks in advance for your time, David Alberts, uh, YNCSS United States Navy. Um, I gotta say, of all the fan mail that shows up, it's all special in its own way, of course. it always means something a little special to me when it comes from the Armed

Paul Adelstein: Forces.

Paul Adelstein: I, uh, that's a lovely letter, by the way, thank you for sharing it. It's crazy. I did a, I did a Goodwill tour this October. Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right before you started recording this.

Paul Adelstein: The thing that he said about, um, we heard it over and over again, because I was like, what am I providing? What? I mean, I'm glad. I was so glad to do it.

Paul Adelstein: And it was such a joy. And it was fascinating. But I was like, do these people care?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I would have that thought. Yeah. Like, why do they care about me?

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. Why do they care? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice to hear. That it provides, comfort is the wrong word, or entertainment, [00:39:00] you know, just entertainment. Just nice to be able, I'm just really not saying this right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, no, no, I know what you mean. There's something about like, you know, the idea that we get to be a part of a story that made the cut, meant the world. So I gotta say, if David Alberts of the United States Navy is out there, hey man, thank you for sending that. Um, yeah. And, uh, you know, I'm married into a military family, so, you know, to everybody serving overseas.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, you know, thank you for your service and thank you for doing what you do. There you go. You want to wrap us up, Paul?

Paul Adelstein: Let's wrap it up. We have a call in topic for this week because our call ins have been great. Um, the call in number is 401 3 PBREAK.

Paul Adelstein: This week our topic is Fanfiction. Fanfiction kind of exploded right as Prison Break

Fast Forward: hit the

Paul Adelstein: world. I mean, uh, because, again, because people were [00:40:00] internetting and connecting about shows and there were message boards and fanfiction exploded all over the place. You could publish stuff. Oh yeah. Call us and tell us.

Paul Adelstein: Did you read fanfiction? Did you write fanfiction? If you read it, were you traumatized by it? Were you inspired by it? We'd love to hear from you. Um, especially if you wrote it. Uh, we'd love to hear if you're still doing it. Um, what happened to some of your fanfiction? We don't know if we're allowed to share fanfiction.

Paul Adelstein: We probably are not. But we just, we want to hear what your interactions with fanfiction are. Tell us your fanfiction stories. If it's still going.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Absolutely. And don't forget, you can subscribe to our Watch Party episodes on Patreon. The link is on the show page, wherever you're listening right now. Um, and, you know, also remember, don't get sent to prison.

Sarah Wayne Callies: But if you are sent to prison, don't room with someone with a, who's named after a fruit or vegetable.

Paul Adelstein: [00:41:00] Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, you can do better than that.

Paul Adelstein: I'm out of, um, everything I want to think of is just inappropriate.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, all right. Uh, now I'm super curious.

Paul Adelstein: Do they let you have iPad? No. You don't get. I don't know. You don't get content in prison, do you?

Paul Adelstein: Well, they used to watch

Sarah Wayne Callies: TV. They used to watch the show.

Paul Adelstein: Ah, that's great. That's bonkers. Ask me again.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Alright, Paul. Remember, don't get sent to prison. But if you are sent to prison

Paul Adelstein: Take care of your teeth.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Take care of your teeth. That's good advice. All right, everybody. I guess that's it for us. We'll see you next time.

Paul Adelstein: We'll see you next time. Thanks for being with us.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, we're grateful. And. We are. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul is a Calibre Studio production. Your hosts have been friends, but not besties, but maybe getting closer to it. Sarah Wayne Callies and Paul Edelstein. Our prison warden is producer Ben Hamer.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Love him. [00:42:00] Getting us all caught up in the prison yard is editor and sound designer Jeff Schmidt. The frontman of our jailhouse rock band is Paul Edelstein, who made all our music.

Paul Adelstein: It's true.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Taking the nightly headcount is production Assistant Drew Austin. Our Prison Break Tattoo artist logo and brand designer is John Nunzio and Little Big Brands.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Check 'em out at www.littlebigbrands.com and follow us Zito on John Nunzio. John Nunzio. John Nunzio, Zito Nunzio. Follow us on Instagram at Prison Break Podcast. Email us at pbpodcastatcaliber studio. com, or call us at 401 3P BREAK. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul is a Calibre Studio production. Your hosts have been friends without besties, Sarah Wayne Callies and Paul Edelstein.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Our prison warden has been producer Ben Haber. Our head of Jailhouse Rock is Paul Edelstein, who made the music. For this podcast keeping us Slim and Trim, the Prison Yard has been sound designer and editor. The great Jeff Schmidt keeping us [00:43:00] up to date on the outside world is production Assistant Drew Austin.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Our prison artist logo and brand designer is John Zito and Little Big Brands. Check them out at www.littlebigbrands.com. Follow us on Instagram at Prison Break Podcast. Email us at prison breaking@caliberstudio.com and call us at four oh one three p. B R E A K. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul has been a Calibre Studio production.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Thank you.