Bennett Maxwell (00:01.587) Welcome to another episode of the Deeper than Dough podcast. I'm super excited to have JM Ryerson. Wait, did I just, did I just butcher it after I practiced it before? We were just.

JM Ryerson (00:10.174) No, you crushed it, man. You're fine. You got to remember I don't enunciate well, so you could say pretty much anything. I'd be like, yeah, cool, man.

Bennett Maxwell (00:19.667) All right, well, I appreciate the grace there. So, Jay, and welcome to the show. Super excited to have you.

JM Ryerson (00:24.798) Brother, pleased to be here, man. We had a great time with you on my show and great to see you again.

Bennett Maxwell (00:31.187) Yeah, I'd love to start out with a quick background, including a little bit of background on how you got into podcasting and a little bit about your podcast.

JM Ryerson (00:40.51) Yeah, so I guess the quick and dirty of what I did professionally is I built and sold three companies in the financial service world. I don't know anything about financial services, so we're clear, but what I was good at was building teams, sales and leadership. So did that. I ended up writing my first book for we have two kids, 18 man, 18 and 14 year old sons, and that just took me on this journey that's called Let's Go Win.

And let's go when it's all about inspiring people to live their best lives. Cause again, I wrote the book for my sons, never expected to do anything with it. But the gal I was working with said, man, you're selfish. And I said, what do you talk about? She said, if you don't share this with more than two human beings, you're selfish. I said, cool. So we went ahead, published it, started coaching, you know, executives and professional athletes and all kinds of people all over the place. And, the podcast just.

was part of it, man. And I will tell you, Ben, of all the things that I do, the coaching, speaking, you know, working with businesses, my favorite thing is what we're doing right now. So I feel extremely blessed that I found podcasting. people say you got a great for great voice for podcasts. I don't know if that means I have a really bad face for TV, but I'll take one of the compliments. So yeah, man, that's kinda, that's my story.

Bennett Maxwell (02:07.667) Can you go into that a little bit more as far as, I mean, podcasting versus building businesses and why is that different and what draws you to it?

JM Ryerson (02:19.678) You know, I'll tell you, there's one specific instance that made me realize why I love podcasting. I had one of my best friends of over, gosh, it's been 30 years plus that we've been best. I mean, there's nothing I don't know about this guy. And yet we're doing this podcast and I'm learning all sorts of things about him because I'm asking deeper questions than just, you know, how's the family and you know, we're fishing buddies and we, we.

We grew up, you know, playing hoops together and all the things that we did, but now we're digging into like deep philosophical questions that he's a really smart guy. That's why I love podcasts because you get deeper and you really start to explore a subject. Building a business, man, it's fun. Trust me. I love building businesses, but there's such freedom in a podcast where.

Maybe you don't have the infrastructure. Maybe you didn't prepare, but you can go out there and have a great conversation and you're probably not going to flop because that's what people want to see a business. Yeah, I mean you can wing it, but it's going to be a little more challenging. So I really like the fact that we can just hop on and just like we did on my show man like hey, let's go and 45 minutes later I feel like I got a good sense of who Bennett is.

That's you don't get that as much in business. It takes longer to get there. but I love building businesses too. I mean, shoot, this is my fourth company. So I suppose I like doing that too.

Bennett Maxwell (03:51.091) I relate to that a lot. I mean, our VP of production is built out all over, you know, the dope, cookie dope production. I've known him since I was, I don't know, a few years old. Like, I've known him forever. And then I had him on the podcast as a guest and we start talking about what drives people and joy and fulfillment and success. And I'm like, 28 years later or 30 years, however long it's been, I'm like, wow, I just learned probably more than I have from knowing you because it -

Because the back and forth of whether it's business or even, I guess, friendships that you're not hanging out with every day, you get on a podcast and you get deeper. And anyways, I relate to that a ton and I love that. The three finance companies that you've built, can you jump into that a little bit more? How long before, when you started them, until you exited them and what kind of was that?

Transition period. Okay, I've exited now what I want to do next. I'm gonna do it again and then again

JM Ryerson (04:54.59) Yeah, it's a good question. So I got hired by a guy that immediately we clicked man. I mean, I was in the interview chair and we just had similarities and I only asked him two questions. I was like, hey, can I golf every Friday? And is there any limit to how much money I can make? And he's like, yes, you can golf and no, there's no limit. And I was like all in and he had this, it was in Northern California in Sacramento and he had this great.

Operation going and I was like, dude, why don't you do this nationwide? And he goes, well, I mean, I think he was probably making low seven figures and he's, he was younger. I mean, he probably was early thirties or maybe even younger then. And he's like, well, why would I said, why not? And so I said, let me show you. If you'll give me the opportunity. So I went and opened up our second, location in Portland, Oregon. And then just from there, we built that to about eight comp or excuse me, eight locations.

And at that time we decided we really wanted to take an idea and go really nationwide. So we sold that one and we ended up coming together with another group of guys to build out this distribution all over the country. And Bennett, it was awful. It was six years of hell. Even though financially we were crushing it. I mean, literally we went all over the country, but there were six business partners.

And three of us were really aligned and then three of the others were aligned on their side. It doesn't make mean them. They're bad people. We just weren't aligned together. So despite that we grew and we grew and we grew and so we ended up myself rich and one other gentleman, the three that were aligned. We said, you know what? Let's go ahead and exit this and let's figure out our next plan. And the next one was beautiful man.

We took that and we actually went from having this lead system, all these things, and we found this amazing niche with another gentleman that I had known for years. And it was, like I said, it was just a beautiful thing. And after a while, I never expected to sell out of that company. Honestly, I thought I'd still be there, but after writing my first book, I found what I truly was passionate about. And so, man, now let's go win. I don't ever expect to.

JM Ryerson (07:19.742) Exit from it. I call it my legacy company. I really hope that one or both of my boys will eventually take it over. And yeah, it's just, it's been a cool ride, man. Ultimately sales leadership and teams. That's what I love. And so that's, that's kind of what I do.

Bennett Maxwell (07:36.435) You made a very interesting comment. Like I don't know anything about the finance world, but I built and not only built one company, but built and exited three companies. which just speaks to, I mean, you really don't, it is more about managing people, expectations, sales, marketing, rather than the business. I mean, I went from solar to cookies. I still have cookies. So I, I definitely relate to a lot of that. I want to dive into the business partners, all three of these, it seems like you had.

business partners and a lot of the business kind of hinges on, you know, the relationship of those partners. So it sounds like the first one, existing business, you got hired, crushed it, and then you partnered in expanding multiple offices. Is that correct?

JM Ryerson (08:21.374) That's correct. And I knew pretty straight away we were aligned in the interview chair because we just had a lot of similar values. That one was simple. And without doing all the stuff I know now, all the reading I've done and all the failures I've made in business along the way, we were just really clear culturally in that first one.

Bennett Maxwell (08:44.499) And how did you do equity split? I took a startup class a few years ago and they threw up a cap table, you know, just two partners. And he said, what's wrong with this cap table? So, you know, we're all examining, I was like, is the number of shares that they're issuing? And the answer was 50 -50, can't go 50 -50. My first business was 50 -50 and luckily we didn't have any issues. I didn't know that rule. And it's not about the equity per se, it could be 50 -50.

That's what I learned. And then led me to Dirty Dough. And I also, there were six of us when I initially bought the company, brought on partners and my brilliant ideas, six part -time people were going to crush it. Well, no. And then again, I took that startup course and he's like, anybody who owns, I forgot the number, he told me five or 10%. If they're not investing large amounts of money, they have to be full -time in the business or it's never going to work.

and I ended up buying out all my partners. But I want to ask you your experience in those, you know, bringing on multiple partners, equity splits, if they're full -time, part -time, how did you navigate that?

JM Ryerson (09:48.35) Yeah, man. So we the first company because it was his business to begin with. We really looked at it and said, okay, we want to partner up, right? You want to bring me on as a partner because you want growth and yep, we agree to that. What we did is we actually tracked it for the first six months to say, we think 6040 is where we want to go. That was the value he saw he was going to be the president and CEO and I would be the VP and

Gosh, I think I was COO and I may have even been CFO. I mean, we're small for that first company. But we really looked at 60 -40 and I actually think it ended up being like 58 -60, whatever that, I'm terrible at math. Thank you. But I actually, no, it was in my favor, 58 -42, okay?

Bennett Maxwell (10:35.155) I exist too.

Bennett Maxwell (10:43.219) I'm 22 points off, not even close. And I said it with all the confidence in the world. Do you see that?

JM Ryerson (10:45.31) Ha ha!

You know what? And I went with it. I was like, yeah, man, wait a minute. That's not right. So anyway, it was actually a bit in my favor at the time, but you know what I said? I said, no, dude, this has been your company. I really feel comfortable at 60 40 because I see the value and it was one of the best moves I could have made. And here's why years down the line, he continued to want me to take on more. And actually in that third company, he said, I won't do the deal unless you have a higher percentage. He's like,

You're really responsible for more of the distribution. You are more engaged on a, on a daily basis. And he ultimately said, you know what? I want you to be higher percentage than me. And I finally, at that time, relented and said, okay, brother, I'm cool with that. But to answer your question, we started at 60 40 really monitored the numbers for six months till we both felt comfortable and we never looked back. I mean, honestly, we grew, let's see.

That first year we partnered together, we grew over double and the next year we tripled. So ultimately because we were able to put egos to the side and really see one another for the value we had, we grew tremendously. And I think often people get stuck in that number thing and they'll, you know, am I getting screwed? Am I, you know, somehow I'm losing out. We didn't look at it that way. We're like, just like, how are we going to grow? Do you feel good? Yep. Me too. Let's go.

Bennett Maxwell (12:14.483) A good relationship and open communication and very interesting that you said we're going to give it six months to kind of see how it plays. And that was another recommendation that I heard. There's a book called Slicing Pie and it tells you, you know, you put a value on your time and then how many hours you're working and then a value on your skill set and a value in capital provided. I think those are three categories. And then you, you know, do a weighted skill and the book walks you through how to do that. And then, yeah, whether it's six months, three months, a year, whatever it is.

then you can actually look and say, okay, this is my percentage. And then it's not, you know, kind of the guesswork. And I like that you did that. And then the other thing that really stuck out to me that I think is very important is you're like, no, I need you to be motivated. This is your baby. Like you take a little bit more, let me prove myself. And then you did. And then he's like, no, no, you're doing more. And then the tables turned, but having that open communication and the fact that you wanted to give up.

a little bit more and have him have a little bit more. I think that's amazing. And it kind of leads into the importance of even employee stock options. Let's have everybody be motivated. And even if I'm getting a little bit less, the pie is going to be bigger if we're all running at full speed and not thinking about what you said. Am I getting screwed? Is this a little bit too much? Is this not enough? So jumping and then how does... Okay, so you had that partner. That was a...

just one other person, and then you jumped into a partnership with six people. What were the pros and cons of that and how was the equity structured there?

JM Ryerson (13:49.47) It was arguably the most talented room of, of group up at least executives I've been a part of. And yet it was a train wreck. And here's why you had three that would literally cut their mother to take profit. I mean, it, it didn't matter, man. And then you had three of us on the other side, a bit more, you can tell there's some naivety to everything that we, I was certainly doing, bringing to the table. Look, I remember going, I sat.

I'll for a moment, but my naivety is so bad at that point. I remember I was in a courtroom taking care of one of my guys. I was asked, I was deposed and I was like, she said, well, show me the agreement. And I put out my right hand and she goes, what's that? I said, that's my agreement that we shook hands on it. She goes, that's pretty naive. Don't you think? And I said, yeah. And you know what? It's worked out really well. Well,

It did work for me for a long time. I will say I've had partners steal money. I've had in that, that second company, I think I lost, I don't know, 250, 300 grand or something. I'm still owed today that I'll never get back. And that's cool, man. I've accepted that, but because the agreement wasn't so clear cut. And then I had a business partner in my, my third company that actually took over two and a half million dollars. And here's what's crazy Bennett. I wouldn't change a thing.

That is exactly what I needed to go through to really appreciate the great business partner that I had a in the first company and the fact that maybe I didn't vet out the remaining partners as well as I could have. And so it has led me, I'm still not a big agreement guy. I have attorneys that see why a for me, but ultimately brother, I, everything I do is like, let's shake hands. Cause.

At the end of the day, I'm going to hold up my end of the bargain. That's I have to look in the mirror. I hope you're the same. And by the way, sometimes people don't. And I, that's, that's part of doing business. So I don't know if I answered your question, but the second company, it was tough, man. I mean, my wife and I were separated for a year. I was miserable. I was almost 300 pounds at the time. It was not a fun time, but yet I don't regret it at all because it's really.

JM Ryerson (16:08.126) allowed me to enjoy company one, company three, and ultimately company four.

Bennett Maxwell (16:14.387) Did that realization of I wouldn't change a thing, did that happen during that six year period of hell or is that hindsight, you know, 2020, I'm grateful for the experience. How did you develop that mind? I mean, most people aren't going to say a partner stole 200 grand or I'm owed this or 2 million, but that's fine. How did you develop that mindset and when was that developed throughout that process?

JM Ryerson (16:36.062) It started, mid company too, but it didn't get crystallized until company three. Here's why. And this is why I know this to be true. The 250 grand. I mean, brother, I was angry about that for probably a couple of years. And the problem was holding onto that anger is it's ultimately running my life. Now I'm not as happy because I'm worried about something that I'm not going to get back anyway, unless I go soothe him and go pursue it and spend more money anyway. But I was mad.

I mean, I was pissed. Like I'm owed this money. This, the, the other business partner who, by the way, was like, imagine your best friend for 10 plus years, family vacations, like God parent to his kids. Like imagine that's the guy that stole the two and a half million dollars. That's what happened. And guess what? I wasn't mad about it. I realized the, what happened by having the 200 and some odd thousand that was owed to me, how much,

that ruined those years. I didn't get to enjoy it. I'm never gonna let money get my way of happiness. And so ultimately I looked at it and said, okay, cool, I'll just go make more. It's one thing I do know, money is one of those, it's energy, it's just a frequency. And I have the ultimate confidence I will continue to make it if that's what I need. And...

So to answer your question, it really crystallized in company three, where I said, no, I don't care what happens. I don't care how I get screwed over, quote unquote. I'm not a victim, man. I chose to be in that relationship. I need to look in the mirror and accept that. And sometimes great things happen. Sometimes bad things happen and that's okay. And it's really served me well. And I know some people are like, that's crazy. I think it's crazy to stay mad about it. And the fact that it took me that long.

to get over the couple hundred grand. It's like, dude, it's just money. Move on and go build something better.

Bennett Maxwell (18:36.499) Yeah, I love that. And it reminds me of the Jocko Willink Extreme Ownership, if you've heard of that book. I read that and there's a thousand examples, but like it could be summarized. You, as soon as I say XYZ happened because JM did this to me, I don't have control. As soon as I say, JM did this to me because I welcomed him into this relationship and XYZ.

As soon as you put it back on you like, I should have vetted. I should have called more references. I should have been checking the bank accounts more after whatever. And then you put it on yourself and it's not to get down on yourself just like you didn't. It's okay. I'm in control here and I did X, Y, Z and it didn't turn out. Now I learn from it. Let's move on. Have you heard of that book or read it before?

JM Ryerson (19:24.094) Yeah, it's sitting right. Nope. It's on it's over there, but Jaco and Leaf Babin nailed that book. And here's why it's so great to that point. They're talking life and death. Like they're really, when they're talking extreme ownership, they're not talking like losing a couple bucks. They're talking about if you screw up, your buddy dies. Your sealed member dies your whomever troop that you're a part of.

Bennett Maxwell (19:26.515) right behind you.

JM Ryerson (19:52.638) We're not talking about that here, but to your point, you wanna take that accountability because look, you have control over you. That's about it. You have control over your attitude and your activity. Everything else is pretty much out of your control. And so to sit there and worry about things you can't control or allow that somehow, because remember, it's a choice. I'm allowing that to bother me, that's on you.

And I do. That's a great book. I think they absolutely crushed it with it. And yes, I love to read. So it's a great book.

Bennett Maxwell (20:30.739) What would the advice be to yourself or to someone else that is in that anger stage? So something happened to them. It is what it is. It sucks. And whether it's fear or sorry, whether it's anger or like in my case, a lot of it has been fear. Like I have to do X, Y, Z or I'm going to lose everything. And it's like operating out of fear. And then you get out of that stage, you're like, man, I'm grateful for that because look who I've become. But during that valley, what's your advice to those people going through the valley on, hey, how do you snap out of it?

rather than waiting to get through it and then being grateful for it.

JM Ryerson (21:04.222) That's a great question, man. I actually just did this recently with my brother and I said, look, man, cause he's had a tough run with lots of things, but specifically he was choosing to be a victim for years. And I said, look, here's the deal, man. I need you to go right and forgive for you. You don't have to forgive for them. Forgive for you because if you're hanging onto this anger towards this person, that's on you.

That the act is already done. You can't change the past, so I'm a huge proponent of writing this stuff out. So the first thing is I'll do a write about forgiveness up to this person. So the gentleman that sold a couple hundred grand. I immediately have that. That was something once I got in come three. I was like you need to forgive him and I let that go immediately after company three when I lost money I I forgave. I didn't even get upset about it. I was just like alright, I forgive you. I'm moving on.

So it is, I ask people to write about that. There's also this really cool exercise I do on stage and it's basically victim versus being a victor. And I have people write out on the left side of the sheet what it feels like to be a victim. And it's terrible, man. It's weak and out of control. And it's just, it's a really, really negative. On the right side, how does it feel to be a victor? And it's powerful and it's strong and in control.

And I say, now what's your choice? And that's when you have to look in the mirror and say, am I going to be a victim or am I going to be a victor? Now I've seen people literally that have been molested and raped and gone through the worst of worst things that should never happen. But yet that act happened. Are they going to choose to be a victim because of that? Or are they going to choose to be victorious? And I'm not saying it's easy by the way, in those examples, I don't wish that upon anyone.

But you know, like my dad, I lost him to suicide just over two years ago. And it hurts, man. It's fricking brutal. But I'm not gonna allow that to be the defining moment of my life. Or my dad's. I'm going to choose to be a victor, even though it hurts. I'm going to choose to rise above that, and I'm not gonna be a victim. It's just, stuff happens to all of us.

Bennett Maxwell (23:26.227) Thank you for sharing that. Both me and my wife, as far as like parents and suicide, we had to really kind of dive into this. My wife's mom suffers from depression and her grandma died, like went mute for severe depression for a few years, no emotion and then passed away. And we both grew up very religiously. And her thought was, well, if I tell my mom I'm no longer part of this church that is teaching her,

that we're gonna go to heaven together as long as I'm faithful and she's faithful, but now that I'm not following those commandments, I'm not gonna be with her, I can't hide, I mean, I need to hide that I'm no longer part of this or else she could die. And I went through kind of a similar thing with my mom saying, I need XYZ and if you don't, it's because you don't love me and I'm gonna kill myself. We both kind of had to come to terms with like, okay, well, what if that actually did happen? Because we were both letting it control us.

And we came to the realization of, again, we're not in control of that. And if that happens, that says nothing about us as kids. Did you go through any of that? Was there any guilt involved? If so, how'd you overcome it? And if not, because I don't think there should be, how did you view that with your dad passing?

JM Ryerson (24:42.718) So I don't know if it was guilt. It was certainly, it was confusion because I didn't even know this was a possibility with my dad. My dad was a big, strong, tough, kind, amazing man. But also I didn't realize the pain he was in. Now, what I will tell you is the other family members, my mom, my brother, my sister, they all knew that this was a possibility. But because my dad and I were so close, they wanted to hide it from me.

So being the fact that I'm a mindset coach, it hurt that I didn't know so I could really do everything in my power to try and help. At the end of the day, again, it's out of my control. If he was in that much pain, the choice that he made was what he needed to make at the time, right? So I don't have guilt. I actually, as horrible as it is,

And this is something I hope everyone hears. No matter the circumstance, no matter how bad it is, something great comes from every scenario. So I want my dad back every day. Trust me. I want, I want to hug him. I want to kiss him. I want to say, I love you, dad, which are not things we did a lot, until later in life, but I can't. But what I do have is a perspective on life that I could never have. I don't know if I could have got it without losing him, which is I love life.

I love every single moment. In fact, I, again, I'm inspired. People live their best lives every single day. I want to live to the fullest. So I don't think there was guilt to answer your question, but there's certainly confusion and I still have it. Like I want to live longer. And yet he chose to obviously end is I just, I, I don't want anybody to ever go through that again.

And so I feel for you guys and I'm glad you guys are having open dialogue about it, but like you said, it's out of your control and you need to be true to you at the end of the day, because that's how you show up as the best version of yourself.

Bennett Maxwell (26:52.435) And to give you the ending of that story, my wife did tell her mom last summer and her mom loves her the same. And that was kind of a made up fear that she had. Not that it didn't have legitimate reasons for being there, but it wasn't real when she actually came out. And the same thing with me. Like I just, I'm like, I'm not gonna be controlled by this fear. And I did have that same realization and which leads me to probably a very different or controversy.

controversial way to view suicide and that it's.

I don't even know how to say it. It's not bad if that's what they believe. Like why am I going to say, who am I to say you need to live because I want you to live? Like isn't that selfish? But yet people commit suicide and we're like, that's so selfish. They're not thinking of other people. It's like, well, no. Isn't it selfish for you to tell them what to do because you want to feel a certain way and you feel like you will not feel a certain way if they take their life? I mean, at the end of the day, like,

We don't, if somebody comes to the conclusion that that is what they need, that they're in so much pain, that that's the only way, like, who are we to say that we know better than them? And I think that society looks way too much like negatively, I should say American society, I think other societies are a lot better. I mean, in Switzerland, they have assisted suicides, which my opinion is that's a beautiful thing.

JM Ryerson (28:17.054) Yeah, I look when my dad first did it, I was pissed man and I said exactly that was so selfish and here's why. Because my dad and I talked so much about this subject because bipolar runs in my family. So I knew that it was a possibility, but I just didn't know it was ever a possibility with my dad. So I said how selfish could he be? And I have since.

redacted that to say, I don't know the pain that my dad was going through. I don't know truly. And I knew him well, just like we're talking about how well I knew my best friend. Okay, great. And then I haven't walked a day in his shoes. I don't know what my dad went through growing up or at work. So you don't know the pain that somebody's going through. And it is selfish to say, I want you, look, if they lose the appetite to live,

It's not a, it's not a fun way to go through and it's, they're going to be a shadow who they are anyway. So trust me, I want my dad here, man, at the end of the day, but you're right. It is not, it's not in my control. And I remember all the amazing things about my dad, that particular act or thing. It's painful, but it's not who he was. It's just something that unfortunately took place.

Bennett Maxwell (29:41.715) Thank you for sharing that. You also talk about forgiveness to your business partners, but maybe there was some forgiveness that you felt you had to go through with family members or your dad. And I want to talk about forgiveness a little bit, because it is so powerful. When you forgive your, you know, self -forgiveness especially, but forgiving others, because you are just letting go of that anger, that whatever you had. What I use and helps me the most with forgiveness,

is empathy and looking at that person who stole the two and a half million dollars from you, like, why? Why did they make that decision? They weighed out the pros and the cons and for some reason, the pros of stealing it outweighed the cons and therefore they made that decision. But like, my belief is if I was them with all of their experiences, with all of their values, with all of their hormones, I would have made that same decision. So if I can...

If you them, I would have stole two and a half million dollars from myself too, if I was them and their circumstances. And then that allows me to forgive this. And then you do that to yourself as well. You look back at any decision you made like, I don't know why I made that decision. I mean, I can superficially say it was because of this reason, but like, why did I value that reason over the other reason? Why are my values that way? You right? And what created those values? And then you can kind of always link it back to genetics or environment. And then again, you can look at yourself with,

yourself or others with an infinite amount of empathy. Love to hear your thoughts on that or how do you view forgiveness and how do you forgive others?

JM Ryerson (31:14.736) Yeah. So you're my wife and you actually very similar in that regard. It's, it's amazing. I love that she does that too, where she puts herself in their shoes and she's very empathetic. empathy is one of the most important things a leader can have not to totally go business for a sec, but it is true. Like you need it. I don't really go there and here's why I don't ever justify why they did or they didn't. I just know that it's toxic in my body and I need to release it now.

So my process is immediately I write, I meditate, I usually work out like a fiend hitting the heavy bag, something to release that energy. And then I'll probably rinse and repeat until I'm at a point where I just say, I'm not trying to justify it. And I'm not even judging that they did it. It's kind of like, I don't know, it's just a matter of fact. It's like, okay, it happened. And I move past it. So.

I don't really ever say like, yeah, I would too, because I don't want to feel those emotions to put myself in that place. I just say, this is what happened. It was a great life learning lesson and I moved forward. I'm not saying that was easy to get to, by the way, Bennett, that was years and years and it's still work. But I will say after I've practiced it so much, it just makes it really easy to not even put judgment on the person, not try to.

even feel like I could be that way because I don't want to. It's just to say this is what happened. What did I learn from it and move forward.

Bennett Maxwell (32:53.299) shifting back to business at the beginning, you talked about your first partner and you said, Hey, let's grow this. Let's do nationwide. And he said, why? It reminds me of a story that's kind of backs him up more than you, but I want to hear your thoughts on this. And I think I have my view on it. A businessman goes fishing in Mexico and you probably heard this, you already know, you know, so it's, okay.

JM Ryerson (33:18.238) I love it by the way, you can say the whole thing.

Bennett Maxwell (33:22.227) has an amazing day, maybe I should let you say it, but has amazing day fishing and tells the fisherman, hey, why don't you have more boats? Well, why would I want more boats? Well, if you have more boats, you could take more people fishing. Well, if I take more people fishing, why would I want that? Well, then you could have more money and then you can expand and go to other markets or whatever. Why would I want that? So you could do whatever you want and spend more time with your family. And he's like, I'm already doing that. So, you know, that's more on the business part. Now, your advice was, well, let's go do it anyway. And I think you should.

you know, doing it anyway, as long as you're doing it correctly and attaching your joy, fulfillment, definition of success to the chase and the growth rather than the goal and if you hit it or not. But I'd love to hear your thoughts on, you know, the Mexican fishermen versus what you're doing.

JM Ryerson (34:09.438) Yeah, I love that story. And anybody that hasn't heard it, it is awesome because when you truly find joy, content, contentment is a tough one for me fulfillment, joy and fulfillment. And you found your purpose. Cool. What the gentleman's name is rich, rich loved giving opportunities. That's why I knew I could push it. Now I was also young and hungry, so I'm sure I just wanted to go kick ass. That's why we wanted to do it.

But now every time I've grown any companies, like right now, my whole thing is doubling the revenue of a lot of dental companies right now. But anyway, it's not the money that gets me going. It's the extra opportunities you can provide to people. And that's what really, really I learned floated my boat, man, because there was a guy named Tim. Tim came for me, lived in really crappy part of Detroit.

Tim never had made more than like $27 ,000. And when I met Tim, if he made 40 brother, he was like, my gosh, I've made it. And I said, Tim, if you don't make at least six figures this year, we have failed catastrophically. Well, the guy made like 150 grand that year. Now it wasn't about the money. It was about the mindset shift. Now what Tim also was able to do is provide opportunities back to his family. Brother.

That is joint fulfillment for me. And I realized that really early on, that's what fuels my fire. The money in the bank is cool. But again, Steve jobs died on his deathbed was $7 billion in his account wanting to give it all away for health. So it's clearly not everything. And I definitely understand that it's really figuring out what you love.

And, and I think that's what you talked about so much in what you're doing with dirty dough and everything. It's like, dude, you found your passion, your love, your, your, your helping, you were doing the school thing on top of it. And I'm like, you can feel it, man. That's why, and Rich loved giving opportunities. So that, that was why it ultimately worked as yes, he was content, but was he fulfilled? Not quite as we grew more and more and gave a bunch of opportunities.

JM Ryerson (36:31.742) He finally really found his fulfillment and joy.

Bennett Maxwell (36:35.571) that and you talked about that. It's not about the money. So about the opportunities that low money by or brings you. And I think that that's what most people would say. And I think they stopped there though, where you expanded further. That's joy and fulfillment. Like you, you, you said contentment and fulfillment or whatever it is, but like you attach it to an emotion because often it's, it's not attached to an emotion, right? It's just, I want money. Well, why do I want money? Because I can.

do more things, I can give more money to people, or I can feed the homeless or on vacation. But it's like, but how do you want to feel? Because that's what we're after. And I love that you define that. And again, I would challenge anybody to make sure that if your goal is not attached to an emotion, attach it to an emotion, because that is the true goal. We are emotional creatures. Everything we do is so we can feel a certain way. And if we don't realize that, then we're setting the target way off mark.

Last question for you, and I know you've hit on it a little bit, especially with your sons in the book, but what is the legacy that you want to leave behind?

JM Ryerson (37:40.99) It's a big, big word, man. I have explored this extensively. Ultimately, when I come up with legacy, if you think about it, do you know your great grandfather's grandfather? No. Like it's really hard to go past two generations, even three. So the legacy I really want to leave is, is my kids, my wife and I, we have two beautiful sons. I want them to show up as.

the best version of themselves and they can pass that on. It's not about, you know, my son's talking to their kids about how great dad was. That's not it, man. I just want them to pass those lessons on. Now I will say that being said, let's go win. I believe in it so much that I hope that it never goes away, that the ideas and that's why writing the books were so important to me because I wanted something.

that can be passed on just like great stories are passed on whether, you know, it's like the Bible and I'm not calling my book, the Bible, trust me, but it, you know, like the Bible or man search for meaning or some of these great works, you know, they, they are incredible stories and that's what I want passed down. So it's one I've wrestled with a lot, man. And had you asked me and probably your age, I would have been like, I want my name to be known forever and hundreds of millions of dollars. That's not it, man.

I really, really want to see my, my boys thrive. And it's been a beautiful journey so far. And, and I'm so proud of them both. My, my oldest is going to go play tennis at Marquette. So he's already starting his journey and my youngest about to jump into high school and they're great fricking kids, man. I'm, I'm proud of, you know, who they become. And, so that's really my legacy.

Bennett Maxwell (39:30.643) I love that. I appreciate you sharing that. Legacy, a lot of, yeah, I agree with you on that. I want my name on a library or a park. You know, that's kind of a lot of what a lot of people think. But just like you said, I mean, my great grandpa or my great grandpa, of course not. And I remember Alex Hermosy said, you know, Queen Elizabeth was one of the most renowned people in history. She died six months ago and this is the first time you've heard her name since. Like...

Focus on what you're doing right now. And I think the key of focusing on, like, if we want to make an impact and be a positive for other people, I don't think it's the money. I think it's the philosophy on how to live and spreading philosophy. And that is obviously what you're doing, right? It's not, hey, obviously helping people make money, but it's changing the way that they think. And then especially going through,

you've reached your generations and focusing on your kids and then your kids are gonna be teaching others what you taught them and that's beautiful. So anyways, I appreciate you sharing that. James, how can our listeners connect with you?

JM Ryerson (40:37.886) You know, probably two ways. A go listen to let's go win podcast. Cause Bennett was on it and he kicked ass. He was amazing. B go to let's go win .com. If you, there's some free stuff on there, free, work life balance and blogs and all that. And the last thing is Instagram. I probably have the most traction, just JM Ryerson DM me, hit me up, man. If you have any thoughts, questions, I love what I do. And if I can support you in any way, hit me up and I'd love to chat.

Bennett Maxwell (41:06.835) Thank you so much, AM. It was a pleasure having you.

JM Ryerson (41:09.374) Thank you, brother. Appreciate you.