Narrator: This podcast is intended to support UK health care professionals with education. The information provided in this podcast is not a substitute for professional medical advice or treatment, and patients are encouraged to consult health care providers, including nurses, for any medical questions they may have.

or concerns.

Hannah: Welcome to stoma and continence conversations from Coloplast Professional where healthcare professionals and experts by experience discuss the latest hot topics in the worlds of stoma, continence care and specialist practice. I'm Hannah Patterson, I've worked in specialist care and I'm currently the ostomy care associate education manager at Coloplast.

Today's episode is about dads with a stoma.

Ben: It's hard because there's that aspect where they obviously know and they can see.

Farish: You're doing the op to get better for yourself but also I'm doing it because I want to be a better dad. I want to be around the kids. I want to be doing things with the kids and that's really why I kind of do it.

Hannah: Hello and welcome to the podcast. So as we all know it's coming up to Father's Day this weekend. So I thought what better than to have a chat with two dads with a stoma. So I'm going to bring in my two guests. It's people that we've met before. I've got Ben and Farish with me. So I'll say hello to you first, Ben.

If you can just give us a little recap of you, if you can.

Ben: Hello, I'm Ben. I have got ileostomy, which I've had for literally nearly two years now. It'll be two years at the end of this month. I've then had a completion surgery. So mine's permanent now for forever. That's my forever bag. Okay.

Hannah: Look and how many children do you have?

Ben: I've got two. Um, so my oldest is, uh, eight and my youngest has literally just turned six on Tuesday. Oh,

Hannah: so lots of birthdays and anniversaries this time of year for you then.

Farish: Yep.

Hannah: And Farish?

Farish: Hi all, so I'm Farish. Um, I've had my ileostomy for six years and permanent since last year. Yeah, it's been last year.

I've had four operations in total, so I haven't had it so easy, but all good. Um, got two kids, Si, who is going to be seven in a few weeks time, and Tia, my little madam princess, who is four, four and a half years old. So yeah, that's my life, the kids.

Hannah: Fantastic. Thank you both. And a bit of an early happy father's day to you both as well.

Ben: Thank you very much. Thank you.

Hannah: Have you got any plans for the weekend with the family?

Ben: To be honest, I'm not even sure when it is. When is Father's Day?

Hannah: It's this coming Sunday, Ben.

Ben: Is this coming Sunday? Um, have I got plans? I don't know. My wife holds all of our plans. I just do what I'm told. I figured, you know, just, just, just go along with stuff to be honest.

But, um, yeah, I'm not sure actually. I don't know. Hopefully we'll do something.

Hannah: Maybe you've got a surprise in waiting that you don't know about?

Ben: Maybe. It's, it's possible. I mean, I, I, I've been working on that for days, so, uh, I have no idea. I'm going to check now, actually, and, and have a look.

Hannah: Ben will be back with us shortly once he's checked his diary.

And how about you, Farish?

Farish: So usually I definitely get Sort of a lie and we still wake up at 6 37 every day But I don't have to go for a shower first. I'll go for a shower last i'll go downstairs There'll be something hot breakfast made for me and the kids will come down and say daddy daddy Come down close your eyes close your eyes And i'll close my eyes and there'll be breakfast and hopefully a pair of trainers.

They're brand new pair of trainers Some presents and then usually it's all weather dependent As we all know now, Father's Day is all about, like, going out with the kids and doing something they really enjoy. So I'm sure we'll be going to Whipsnade or to the zoo or something. So, I'm sure the wife's got something planned.

And a meal, obviously. So, yeah, there's always something gonna happen.

Hannah: Oh, that's quite sweet that the kids get your brekkie ready, though. That's nice.

Farish: Yes. Yes. Yes, indeed. Is it

Hannah: edible?

Farish: Well, the wife cooks it and the kids put all the butter on the toast and stuff and licking it themselves. So, yeah, it's always edible, so it makes, it makes them happy.

It's all about the kids, right? Whatever makes them happy. Yeah.

Hannah: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Part of being fathers, Dag.

Farish: Indeed. Young fathers.

Hannah: Absolutely. Young whippersnappers, the pair of you.

Farish: Exactly.

Hannah: So thinking about, obviously you've got quite a young family there. How do you approach life with the stoma with your children? Are they all aware of your stoma? Or is it something that you've spoken about?

Ben: Yeah, so they both know, they both are fully aware. Um, I tend to change my bag when I'm having a shower and most of the time I'll just wander in and just stand.

And sometimes they don't ask any questions, they literally say nothing. Um, other times they'll, they'll be like, Oh, what was that? That's your stoma. Particularly my youngest, he'll sort of go, Is that your stoma? Does your stoma hurt, Daddy? Like, no, no, it's fine. It doesn't have any sensation at all. Like it's, it's, no, it's fine.

Um, most of the time they just completely ignore it now. It's just, just the normal. Um, I think probably for my youngest as well. I mean, he was only four when, when I had the surgery. So I don't suppose he can probably really remember the time before in, in some ways. Bit different from my oldest, but still, yeah, they just, they just adapt.

Hannah: Absolutely, absolutely. Beauty of children. They do adapt so easily, don't they? I love the fact that with children they'll ask questions, but equally they don't question it when you You give them the answers as well, though, whereas teenagers are a little bit more pushy and questioning. So, I think it's nice that they're both aware of it, that you can have those conversations.

And the fact that, I think it is very sweet that they ask if it hurts as well. I think that's quite adorable, actually. How about you, Farish?

Farish: So, very similar, really. Um, I had my first operation when Sai wasn't born, and that was like one of the reasons to kind of push and have that operation. That's sweet.

Cause we were having a baby. Well, I, yeah, we were having a baby. I wasn't doing the job, but yeah. Um, the wife was having a baby, so we thought you were a seahorse. Um, so we thought let's, let's have the operation. Nothing else was working. And so they've always been. They brought up around stoma and things like that, and yeah, just like Ben really, they just walk in and just like, oblivious to it, it's like the norm.

Um, and I'm like, Si, can you go and get me a bag please? Or Si, can you help me? Or something like that. But yeah, they don't, like, they're very conscious, like, especially after, because I've had four ops, so it kind of, you know, Or we come to the hospital and come and see me and daddy you can't lift this, daddy make sure you don't lift this, make sure you don't lift the suitcase and things like that.

So they're very kind of conscious of it as well, even when we're playing or something like that. So it's, it's quite good to be fair that they've been brought around it so they understand a lot more about it. Oh, daddy, look, your poo's coming out. Look, daddy, your bag's full and, and daddy, you need to go empty your bag and, and then, oh yeah.

Or they're telling their friends and the friends are like, whoa, what is, what is Simon about? What

Hannah: on earth is going on in this conversation?

Farish: Yeah. So, um, no, it's really good that they really understand it and they kind of, they really just like oblivious to it. And it's just been, Like the norm for them, which is really nice and reassuring.

Hannah: Absolutely. Again, similar to Ben, I love the caring aspect there. You know, very aware of the fact that you shouldn't be doing certain things, especially after you've been in hospital. And how lovely that all of them have got this wonderfully adaptable, but also equally caring side about them that they, They don't think of it as being any different, but they know that it is a little bit different, that they need to be that little bit more thoughtful about things as well.

So I think, I mean, that's a testament to you and your family really as a whole that, that you've brought them up like that, which is absolutely amazing. You mentioned briefly as well with hospital forage. Obviously, Ben, yours was only a couple of years ago, your surgery. How was it with the children then, coping with being away from your children for that period in hospital?

Did they come visit you in hospital?

Ben: Yeah, so they didn't on the house guys, so I've been I've had two surgeries I had the the first one to make my stoma and then I had the proctectomy surgery done and that one was Over a year ago now. It was February 23 and I get confused now between the two. I'm even two years I it's just merged into one sort of mess in my mind, but They definitely came in for when I had the proctectomy surgery.

Um, and that was when I was on the ward. Um, which was quite different. I think they did come in for the other one as well. Because I had my own private room for my stoma surgery for some reason. I got lucky and, well I say I got lucky. It was nice having a private room, but then also, then it was very isolating because it was long periods of time where there was, there was no one in there at all.

Um, and they came to that. So that was quite different because we were on our own and, and they could be in there and it wasn't a problem. Whereas when they were on the ward, I don't think that technically they were supposed to be on in and on the ward, but we were quite lucky. And the, the, the nurses sort of let them in and they were.

Reluctant at first, particularly my oldest. I think she was quite shocked, particularly on the proctectomy, with just seeing all the scars and seeing all the tubes coming out of me. And she was very quiet and reserved and, and sort of almost hold offish, standoffish from me. You can see, she almost didn't want to touch me because I think she thought she was going to like break me again or something.

So it's hard because there's that aspect where they obviously know and they can see. that you're really not well, probably more so than they've ever seen with the kind of illnesses that we've got that you don't necessarily, they can't see what's going on, they can't really understand what the diseases are doing to us either, but so then when all of a sudden they're faced with that it's pretty tough for them.

So it was a mixture, like it was obviously amazing to have them Come in and to see you, I say, especially that the first surgery. So I was in a room on my own and it was hours where there wasn't a lot going on. So to see their faces was amazing. I mean, the advantages we've got nowadays, obviously with technology and video calls and stuff meant that I was kind of constantly seeing them, but to have them physically there and to get a hug and stuff was, yeah, it was really special.

Hannah: You can't put a price on that sort of human contact aspect of things, can you? I know you were saying about being in a side room, I remember the one time when I was in hospital, I was in a side room. And initially you think, oh yeah, this is great. But actually part of the thing that gets you through a hospital stay is people watching.

And that's what I learned, swiftly learned that, actually I'd rather be on a bay, as much as it drove me mad at night when I was trying to sleep, actually during the day, watching the comings and goings and almost getting a bit of gossip along the way, That was a real sort of soul saver at that point, and actually being in your side room you get too much time with your own thoughts a little bit.

What I would have ideally liked is the bay during the day and then my own room at night really, but apparently that wasn't possible, who'd have thought. I'm going to speak to you again about that Farish, because I know you had your first surgery. obviously pre children, but then you've had surgery since.

And again, do your two visit you when you're in a hospital or?

Farish: Yeah, so I've had three operations after they were born and kind of how we kind of manage it is because we don't really have much family around where we live in London, they're mostly in the Midlands. Um, so what we try and do is not bring them for the first day or so, and you can see all the wires and the pipes and everything coming out of the like kind of An octopus and stuff like that.

Sai's really good. Who's older, he's a bit more wary. He understands it a bit more, but Tia, the girl who's a lot young, like four years old, especially this time, like she doesn't like to see that. And she gets quite, kind of quite wary. She won't cuddle me or anything. And she's very, very wary and gets quite upset really.

Um, and then she'll start crying when she goes home or when she's in the car. So she's very kind of, compared to Sai, completely different. Um, so yeah, I definitely, they always come. They definitely come and see me all the time and that's how we like it. We'll try and play games. Like last time we just put UNO and we're playing UNO and kind of just keeping them busy because you don't want them to go out to routine.

Cause essentially you're doing the op to get better for yourself. But also I'm doing it because I want to be a better dad. I want to be around the kids. I want to be doing things with the kids and that's really why I kind of do it. So you just want their life to be a lot normal, so you just try and carry on things as normal, let them come, bring some food with them and things like that.

So, yeah, they're kind of used to seeing me in hospital quite a few times now, so yeah, just trying to keep things as normal and just carry on as normal for them as much as we can really. Help me, because I couldn't walk for a few times, they would help me kind of stand up and Sai would walk with me and things like that.

Sai. My wife's really good to tell them to expect what to see from me and to really kind of help them through it because it does disrupt them no matter what we say if we're away from them for a few days they always get disrupted and it's really not fair on the kids so trying to keep things as normal as possible for them.

Yeah.

Hannah: And talk about that normality. Because, Ben, looking to the fact again that you've only almost barely, I suppose, recent almost on your surgery journey and you still had the kids at that point. Do you feel that you're being able to be, and I don't mean this to sound off, but almost like, since your surgery, being able to be a better dad because of it?

Because obviously we all know that when you've got your IBD and you're just getting the constant flares all the time and issues, it's just debilitating for your lifestyle at that point. So do you feel that the surgery's enabled you to? Almost become more hands on again as a dad.

Ben: Massively. I was restraining myself from sort of jumping in with when Farrah was saying those things.

Um, yeah, I think for me as well, I would Echo. What he said is, I did it obviously for me because I had to do it. I had, I physically couldn't go on as I was mentally. I couldn't go on as I was, but I literally couldn't be there for them as, uh, as, as a dad. So, you know, I, I got too weak where I couldn't even pick up my, my kids, even like my youngest one, who I say was four at the time, and I couldn't pick him up properly.

It was like, this isn't, I can't. I can't throw you around like you want to be thrown around like I want to throw you around. And I can't go out for days out with you both because I can't be away from the toilet. Um, I just, I, yeah, I missed out on so much. And then they missed out on me not being there. Um, it became almost the norm to them that grandparents would go along with mom instead of me.

And then I was resenting it because I was missing out on stuff and it was really hard. So, you know, the surgery is. massively helped with that. Like, I can just be the dad that I want to be now. Um, yeah.

Hannah: Oh, I love that you can be the dad that you wanted to be and that's just, again, I don't think It's always one of those things, you don't get it till you've got it, but people don't realise how much IBD actually cripples you from being who you want to be.

Colour Plus Professional offers a lot of educational material for specialists, nurses and healthcare professionals. Visit colourplusprofessional. co. uk to find out more. This is where I will champion stomas to the nth degree. Stomas give you your life back, and not just your life, your family's life as well, everything, and You two are such testament to that, that, you know, you're, you're living it from the outside.

If anyone didn't know what was going on inside or underneath your shirt, nobody would look at you guys any differently as normal happy family of fours. Going on out, doing your normal thing. We talk about going out for Father's Day. And I know you both go on holidays as well. I don't know if Burish is the male version of Judith Chalmers, I always say.

So Burish, if you want to talk to us a little bit about family holiday experiences maybe.

Farish: Yeah, so we as a family love holidays. We try and do four or five holidays a year. We've always kind of believed in holidays and think it's really important and just love traveling. So yeah, it's um, So let me tell you about my holidays this year So we've already been to dubai.

We went to dubai in the earlier part of the year Then we went to florida for three weeks Um, we are now going to canada for two weeks in july My wife's taking me away in october for my 40th somewhere, which I don't know where Um And then we've got Dubai booked, um, between Christmas and new year. So that's my five holidays done for the year.

Yeah. The kids really love enjoying joy holidays. We love enjoying exploring new places and just getting some sun really like proper vitamin D really. So I would say a lot of time, like. With a stoma and traveling with kids I think especially this year because I've had four operations now I like I went to see my Consultant a few weeks ago because I'm getting pain.

I'm just getting constant pain now Like I'm like immune to pain around my abdominal area. So it's not like Anything they can do they're just saying it's like scar tissue you remember if you think about it opening your body up four times In a space of six years is never good. So you're always going to get like problems.

Everybody's body's different I see people doing weight lifting. I'm like god I can just about carry it I can't even carry a suitcase at the moment. So, um, everybody's body's different and I think this year has been locked I've had a lot of pain and I won't hide behind it. The kids know that I'm in a lot of pain, but I'm immune to it.

But I've really, I just carry on like my wife or the kids won't really know that I'm in pain all day. You just carry on, you carry on on holidays and you do it because of the kids, because they want, they want to go as well. I think this year they really seen it when we were in Florida. Um, we're in, in one of the parks in magic kingdom and took a photo, nice photo, as soon as we went through the ticket gate.

I looked down, and he was just Everywhere my I had a huge leak. It was all over my t shirt over my thing and everywhere Literally sai said daddy. Come on. Let's go to the toilet So he took me he came with me We cleaned off and stuff like that And as soon as I came out, I just burst into tears with my wife.

I was like, oh my god I just it's just like really kind of it was I hadn't done that before. I didn't have any spare clothes Which is a bit annoying. So my wife got me a brand new Mickey Mouse t shirt for like 60 as they are in the parks Chucked the other one away Using a lot of bags as well at that point and then the kids really seen and I really didn't want to show them that But in a way, it's good because you're you're showing them that actually fathers can cry fathers can Kind of get upset as well.

So it was quite encouraging because Sai, who really thinks about it, who's a bit older, he really was kind of more loving towards me that day and kind of, dad, are you okay? Do you need to sit down and things like that? So it's not easy on holidays sometimes. Most of the time we, I don't get any problems and you just kind of carry on.

But this year, for some reason, cause I think it was only. I had one up in January and we went in like April and maybe we're doing 15, 20, 000 steps. And it was really hard kind of, obviously, as everyone knows, Disney is just like walking everywhere and doing millions of steps and stuff like that. So you, like I said, like me and Ben do, you just carry on for the kids.

You do it for the kids. You carry on for the kids. They want to go on holidays. We want to go on holidays. And as a family, we've just really kind of embraced that really. And just. keep busy. We like to keep busy. Every weekend we're doing something with the kids and stuff like that. And you just carry on for the kids really.

Hannah: How about you Ben, holiday experiences?

Ben: Yeah, we love them. We're not quite as fortunate as going on five holidays a year. The main benefit we've got as a family is loads of days out, obviously, being a teacher and working in an independent school as well. Yeah, a really long summer holiday. My wife's also a TA at actually my children's primary school.

So we all have the whole of the state school summer holidays together. Which is lovely. We get so much like lovely quality family time. So we do lots and lots and lots of days out, particularly during that period. We've literally just, as of last year, started to do like one proper sort of a broad holiday a year.

Um, we went to Portugal last year. Um, and then this year we're going to Crete in about 50 days. I think we're off to Crete. So last year we had a nice, all inclusive, um, chill out but adventurous family holiday. So, uh, we're doing very similar this year, same thing, all inclusive again. Um, but we went last year to, uh, Portugal and we had like a three day pass through a water park.

So all the slides and everything, which was, you know, obviously we, we, we did it predominantly for the, for the kids. So it's just such an amazing thing, like Farah says, to, for them to see different parts of the world, but to experience something so totally different to what they're normally used to. are in terms, you know, yeah, kids actually, you can put whatever food you want on your plate today.

Go and knock yourself.

Hannah: You want an ice cream? Have an ice cream.

Ben: All right. Um, and then all the, yeah, all the slides and stuff. But, and I think, As well, it's like it shows them what you can do and what they might be able to do in the future if something happens to them. Like, just because I've got a stoma bag, just because I've had these surgeries and I've still got this disease, I can go down a water slide.

I can go and do whatever I want, really. And I think that's great for them to see as well. And I think holidays, they give you the chance to, For you to be outside of your normal kind of regime and comfort zone, but for them to see you doing it Especially when you've got like a disability and something about yourself that makes you stand out for me I guess part of the reason why when i'm on holiday i'll have like i'll just walk around with my with no top on I won't necessarily wear a bag cover Um, i'll just have my bag out and partly it's because Has shown my kids actually that I'm not ashamed of this.

You, if something ever happens to you, you don't need to be ashamed of whatever your body looks like. You are you and you'd be proud of who you are. And again, it gives you that opportunity to almost to show them that, where you wouldn't normally get to do that. So, yeah, I think there's lots of aspects of holidays that are really important.

Yeah,

Hannah: I'd say the body confidence aspect of things. I'm saying, look, this is, this is normal. It's nothing to hide away from, be shameful of. One thing I do want to touch on as well before we finish is it's something you both have mentioned briefly was the mental health aspect side of things, which I think is something that's so important to talk about.

I know Ben, you spoke a lot about your mental health before your surgery and how it was affecting you. And first you spoke about with the holiday, about the mental health aspect. Men's mental health is something that's still Almost alongside stomas and poo based issues, it is still very much a taboo subject.

People don't talk about it. And the fact that you two are so willing to talk about both almost, I think, is absolutely amazing. Do you either of you have any specific coping mechanisms that you have to, when you have those? those sort of dark days, I suppose, because yeah, we know that life with a stoma does improve things ultimately from where you were, but I'll probably come to you first Farish with this question because you've spoken about the dark days sort of post stoma surgery.

Do you have any coping mechanisms at all?

Farish: So I would say I've been quite lucky in terms of how I've Mentally how I've coped with it and I, and yes, I do have dark days and I had to, I do have, I would say I have dark periods of time and, and I think how that comes around is people not understanding me and just think I'm, it's normal and I think that affects me more.

So, like we would go to places or go with family and friends and things and they really. I don't blame them, but it's kind of they, I feel I get that pressure from it as well. Um, and I think that, that puts a downer on me more than anything. Obviously my wife and kids completely understand it, but other people, the, the wider community, especially within the South Asian community, you're kind of a man, you need to be providing, you need to be like standing their firm and kind of being the man of the house and things like that.

And I think you get that kind of pressure. Like I said, with more specific, I would say, I feel it more because I'm in the South Asian community. I do a lot for the community. I do a lot of the charity work as well. And you see that pressure. Oh, why isn't he doing this? Why isn't he doing that? And then you get that kind of pressure of people saying, Oh, Why isn't he lifting this?

Why isn't he doing this work? Why isn't he doing that and you get that more pressure in that and that kind of gets you in a state? So I think the coping mechanism is my kids and my family honestly like going away at weekend spending time with them and Being normal and really seeing them smile and laugh and enjoying their life really kind of helps me and that's why I am doing all this because of the kids and the family so that is my coping mechanism.

We do a lot together and I think that really helps and just kind of shutting out the outside world really. And yeah, a bit of Coronation Street and Eastenders is always good as well. Is it? Is it? Makes my life a bit, feel a bit better.

Hannah: And how about you, Ben? Any coping mechanisms?

Ben: I, I, again, I think I agree with what Farish says towards the end there, in terms of the family themselves being a coping mechanism.

I think when I'm with them, as a family, we're going out for a day out, I, I can more or less forget about everything else. I still, obviously your mind is always on your stoma to a certain extent. There's always something that kind of draws your mind back to it, but it's never then in a negative way. It's a, Oh, it feels a bit odd or something pulling or filling up.

I need to empty it rather than I don't feel sad. I don't feel like there's, there's no bad emotions. I'm just in, I'm just in the moment with, with the family. So yeah, they definitely have coping mechanism. I mean, I think, I mean, I use my social media channel to. I talked a lot about men's mental health on my, on my Instagram profile.

And it's something that I think is really important. I think you're right. It's a massive kind of taboo area and it's getting better. Um, I think a lot of it is kind of your upbringing in terms of both parents and your peer group and, and kind of how you've grown up as a man, I think in terms of how willing you are to talk about stuff and talking for me is, is the big thing.

So. I thought I was doing really well mentally since my surgeries. And it wasn't until a couple of months ago that I really started saying, actually, I'm, I'm, I'm not great, but something's not right. And I kind of realized I was really suffering with what I called low mood. Um, I'd sort of feel like I was sort of bumbling around, floating around feeling okay, and then I'd have periods where I'd just be.

Really flat and kind of empty and emotionless, and then I'd feel pretty good about something and be happy. Like we'd go for a day out and I'd forget about stuff, and within an hour or two of being back, the, the flatness was back again. And in the end I kind of would started to open up and talk to people and then realized I needed some help.

So I, I got some. Uh, some counseling through, through work and, um, yeah, I've literally just sort of discharged myself from, from that. Actually, I know I've got through about four of the six sessions that I was sort of provided with and I don't, I don't need this anymore because it's been enough for me to process kind of what's been going on and unpick all the, the, the aspects.

And it wasn't so much my surgery. I think if you. Follow my social media channels. You'll, you'll see that right from the beginning, I've been extremely positive about my, about my stoma. It was actually the stuff to do with my family beforehand. The really, I think was the root cause. It was the times that I'd lost.

It was the times that I couldn't be there. The, the, the not being as effective as a, as a husband, as a father, that it was, that was probably the root cause, uh, of my mental health issues. I

Hannah: mean, you hear women mention mum guilt. You've effectively got dad guilt there. Thoughts? What that boils down to and I think it was Beth during her podcast that I do with her She spoke about having mum guilt when she wasn't able to do things.

I know Yvette's spoken about it as well and Exactly what you say. It's almost that you're going back to wishing you could make things different and The fact that you've approached that and you're not beating yourself up over it anymore is, is great.

Ben: Thank you. Yeah, I'm in a much better place now, so yeah, it's good.

Hannah: Good. And on the social media aspect, I will put in the podcast description, I've got both of your social media links, so people can have a look and follow you both and see what you've been up to. See Farish in Canada in a few weeks time.

Farish: Indeed, indeed,

Ben: getting some vitamin D. I have, I do have a dad, some dad advice actually, some Soma dad advice.

Uh, if you bring kids out there and you decide it's a really good idea, you know, when you throw your kid up into the air in the swimming pool and you catch them and you think this is a great game, right? If you've got a stoma, what I would say is if you're going to play that game, wear a stoma wrap, because I didn't.

And, uh, as my youngest came falling down through the sky, his foot must have caught my stoma bag. It ripped. Um, fortunately, my stoma was fine, but it literally ripped the front cover of the stoma bag off and the thing was just flapping down. Luckily, it was empty. So I managed to sort of whack a hand on and, uh, and close it up.

I get out of the pool pretty quick. But yeah, advice there to any stoma dads. Don't throw

Hannah: your child up in the air. Yeah. Well, no, don't do

Ben: that.

Farish: Just play the camera. Just chuck them. Shake them.

Hannah: Just drop them. Yeah. But thank you so, so much, guys, and I hope you have a fantastic day on Sunday, and you both get spoil.

Farish: Thank you.

Hannah: I always say to people, I hope you come back and join me, but you two don't have a choice now. You will be back to join me at some point. I've got to say, I love having you both on. So I will have you both back on soon and to everyone out there, we'll see you on the next episode. Bye. Thank you for listening.

To see more of the wide variety of education we offer, please visit coloplasprofessional. co. uk. See you next time.

Narrator: Stoma and Continence Conversations is a Vibrant Sound Media production for Coloplast Professional.