PB-E15 DISCUSS 060324 ===

Sarah Wayne Callies: [00:00:00] Hello fishes and welcome back to another episode of Golden Bacheloring with Sarah Wayne Callies, my rewatch of this week's Golden Bachelor.

Paul Adelstein: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Sarah, Sarah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Who's that?

Paul Adelstein: Paul. Paul. Wrong podcast. Oh, this is not the Golden Bachelor podcast.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh shit. Hold on. Um, check your,

Paul Adelstein: check your, check your calendar.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Mr. Braun, I apologize. I'm, I'm so happy to see you. I, uh, Oh my gosh, sorry everybody. That's my afternoon podcast, sorry guys.

Paul Adelstein: Oh my god. How's that going by the way, your Golden Bachelor rewatch podcast? People into it? Oh, it's great,

Sarah Wayne Callies: it's great. I've got all these listeners, uh, like my kids, uh, and my husband and

Paul Adelstein: Wait

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think my agent,

Paul Adelstein: you make them listen maybe.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I mean, you gotta earn your 10% of the [00:01:00] tens of dollars it's bringing in.

Paul Adelstein: Okay. Well, are you jealous? Well, um, I am a little bit jealous. I thought I was your only podcast husband, . Okay, let's just press on.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Let's press on. Ladies and gentlemen. It is another episode of Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul. And I'm Sarah.

Paul Adelstein: And I'm Paul. And welcome to episode one 15 by The Skin and the Teeth. And, I know we say this every time, but this one is particularly intense and emotional. We actually do say that every time. I know. It's true. It's Prison Break, but this one in particular is emotional, I would say, even more than intense.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, for sure. I mean, if you, if you actually listen to our Watch Party episode, you will hear me.

Paul Adelstein: Yes. It's like, well, it's super suspenseful, but it's also emotional. I mean, there's something horrifying about it. We're watching a character who we've come to love, or at least even if we don't love him, we certainly have been convinced that he's been wrongly convicted and he's facing execution. We see him get strapped into the chair.

Paul Adelstein: It's [00:02:00] chilling. Which

Sarah Wayne Callies: is super brutal. And I, you know, obviously I think we should find the time at some point to discuss, uh, capital punishment. Yes. And everything comes up with that. But frankly, no matter where you come down on it, it's, it's tough to watch.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. It's, it's, it's tough to watch, which means it's effective and good storytelling.

Paul Adelstein: Absolutely.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, right. But, uh, right. Like our little golden bachelor moment there. Let's press on. Um, and, uh, parse these more serious, parse these more serious thing at the appropriate time. I don't quite know what that means, Paul. Um, well, let's, uh, let's press on.

Paul Adelstein: Okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, so the Palestine

Paul Adelstein: Index, should we do the Palestine Index?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes, yes, yes. But quickly first. Yes. We do have a guest today. Oh, yeah. We have our guest today. We have the one and only Mack Brant, who plays in great Prison Break fashion, uh, a lot. Officer Mac, C. O. Mac, on prison break, and is a dear friend.

Paul Adelstein: Um. He's a dear friend of mine too. We don't have to like, we don't have to fight over Mac.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, he was my friend first. Okay. Great [00:03:00] actor first. Okay. One of my favorite people,

Paul Adelstein: great actor, and my Super Bowl partner, which we will discuss later, I'm sure. Ooh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. Okay. Okay. First, Palestine Index. Okay. Take it away, Paul. Yes.

Paul Adelstein: Okay. By the Skin and the Teeth was written by Nick Santora and directed by Fred Gerber.

Paul Adelstein: It premiered on March 27, 2006 to 10. 07 million people. Facing off against Wife Swap on ABC, Mac's favorite show, King of Queens on CBS, Mac's other favorite show, and Deal or No Deal on NBC, Sarah's favorite show.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Which Mac was the host of. TVGuide. com's synopsis reads, As he awaits his execution, Link thinks he sees someone from his past in the viewing chamber.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'm going to take a small, um, Issue with that. He's not awaiting his execution, dude. They are about to. Meanwhile, Veronica presses to have Terrence Stedman exhumed to determine if the body is, in fact, Stedman's. And it's back to the drawing board for Michael, who's looking for, quote, a new way out of here.[00:04:00]

Paul Adelstein: End quote. Um, some topical news from the day, a federal jury found former top Enron executives Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling guilty of fraud and conspiracy in connection to the energy, to the energy giants collapse. A little side note here, Jeffrey Skilling's brother, Tom Skilling was enormously famous local weatherman in Chicago and much beloved.

Paul Adelstein: And I still contend the only weatherman who actually knows how to predict the weather is the only guy where you're like, Tom Skilling says blah, blah, blah, and it was always that. Okay, because His brother, not so great. Anyway, go on. I have

Sarah Wayne Callies: always been amazed that a weatherman is the only job that you can do and get it wrong every day and not get fired.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Not Tom Skilling. Like if I showed up on set and they were like, uh, this is actually not The Mentalist, this is CSI. They'd fire me on not? How can they not?

Paul Adelstein: Okay. Moving

Sarah Wayne Callies: on. Pressing it. This is, this is our pressing on episode, apparently. Yeah, pressing it. [00:05:00] Uh, in other topical news of the day, the United States witnessed mass protests and debate over immigration reform.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Uh, in Los Angeles alone, more than 300, 000 people took to the streets to demand a more equitable immigration policy. Thank God they fixed that and now we can move on.

Paul Adelstein: Everything's great. Uh, in pop culture on March 24th, the very first episode of Hannah Montana starring Billy Ray Cyrus and his daughter, Miley, aired its first episode on the Disney Channel.

Paul Adelstein: And what happened to Miley? Did she ever go on to do anything

Sarah Wayne Callies: else? She took her Montana money and just

Paul Adelstein: retired. Um, and there's also a prison break tie in

Sarah Wayne Callies: there. Right. Because Miley Cyrus's mother went on to marry. Wait for it, Dom Purcell, which I think I know, because I think, we'll get to this maybe, I think Max texted it to me and was like, is this a joke?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Or is this news? Which is, it's a good question. Hey man, if you're happy, you're happy. It's fantastic. Now

Paul Adelstein: I just watched Prison Break thinking Dominic is [00:06:00] Miley Cyrus's stepdad.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And, on March 26th, the new incarnation of the sci fi cult hit Doctor Who launched, starring Christopher Eccleston as the eccentric title character, and that is the end of the Kallistein Index.

Paul Adelstein: Awesome. Okay. Let's go listen back to some of our reactions to watching this episode. Let's go do that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Let's do it. Tape spec. Are you ready, audience? Because this is a serious one. I'm nervous about this one, actually.

Intro Music: Oh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Find the leak and plug it. Difficult line to say with as much gravitas as she put on it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Also, I a little bit want Michelle Forbes haircut right now.

Paul Adelstein: Look at that. Look how cold it is. So cold. That's not just I can see your breath. That's your breath is freezing immediately as it comes out of your face.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, I love the finger through the bars shot. Always a good one. My friend Ingrid was pregnant during this first season.

Sarah Wayne Callies: She called me halfway through the season. She's like, Sarah, I can't watch this show anymore. It's bad for the baby. She's from the [00:07:00] Midwest. She was like, I'm sorry. It's just too stressful. My heart rate gets

Paul Adelstein: too high. I mean, I get it. It's very stressful.

Sarah Wayne Callies: As you can tell, uh, legit intent.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, yeah. Okay, let's take a quick break, and then we'll bring Mac in, and we'll get into it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You got it right after this.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, we're back. Our guest today, as we said, is Mac Brandt, who played C. O. Mac on Prison Break for 15 episodes, and whose resume has only gotten more kind of mind blowing from there.

Paul Adelstein: It's so extensive and impressive, and frankly, I find that annoying. Uh, I mean, Grey's Anatomy, Colony, Kingdom, Arrested Development, Lovecraft Country, the thing about Pam, Barbie, the upcoming sequel to a huge movie that we can't talk

Sarah Wayne Callies: about.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Barbie?

Paul Adelstein: Yes, Mac was in Barbie.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, we gotta talk about that too because, uh, that's, I had no idea that was happening.

Paul Adelstein: Did you see Barbie?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes!

Paul Adelstein: He played Barbie. [00:08:00] And you've got, look at those gams.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That's amazing. Mac, join us, won't you? Hello, friends. Yeah. Hello, Mac. Hello,

Mac Brandt: everybody.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, Mac, you were in Barbie?

Paul Adelstein: Uh, yeah, Mac's great in Barbie.

Paul Adelstein: Mac plays one of the construction workers that Cat calls Barbie, right? Yeah. When she gets to the real world.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, which brings me, and we're jumping right in here. One of my favorite things. That you have ever said to me, and there are a lot you guys, we're going to get into this. This could be a long episode because the three of us go way back.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And

Paul Adelstein: this might have nothing to do with prison break, because.

Mac Brandt: Most of

Paul Adelstein: it's not, which is going to be great. Well, we're going to have to, we're going to have to keep saying. We'll come back to the show. Back to the show. Back to the show. This episode, the reason we had Mac on for this episode, dear listeners, is because Mac That incredibly intense scene where Lincoln is moments away from being put to his death.

Paul Adelstein: Mac was standing right there [00:09:00] overseeing it as an actor, as a character, but also as an actor. I think it was a pretty intense day.

Mac Brandt: That was a really, um, I had sort of forgotten about it until I re watched the episode. Um, that was a really, extremely unpleasant day.

Paul Adelstein: Because of the subject matter, because of just tension on set, or?

Mac Brandt: Yeah, the, I mean, you know, he had strapped somebody into an electric chair. I'm, I didn't learn that in theater school. And, you know, it was pretty wild. And looking back on it now, like, I was young. That was a long time ago. I didn't know what the hell I was

Sarah Wayne Callies: doing. Had you, in fact, been on television before?

Mac Brandt: No, Prison Break was my first

Sarah Wayne Callies: job.

Mac Brandt: Wow. That's what I

Sarah Wayne Callies: thought.

Mac Brandt: So the first Yeah, that's a hell

Sarah Wayne Callies: of a training wheels.

Mac Brandt: Yeah, it was, it was a lot. And Dominic was real hyped up for that day. I

Paul Adelstein: heard, yeah. There's some stories, I don't even know if we can, we should tell them. I don't think they reflect poorly on [00:10:00] anybody, but it's kind of like, shooting stuff like that can be really intimate for an actor.

Mac Brandt: It was an intense day, man. I mean, he was, Dominic was going through some shit having to do that. As anybody would.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think in some ways it landed on all of us more heavily than I saw on the page. Do you know what I mean? Like reading it, standing there with you guys. And then in real time being like, Oh, they do this to human beings.

Sarah Wayne Callies: They did it to human beings here. The energy in the room changed.

Mac Brandt: Like, you know, we shoot, there's so much stuff that's shot on stages and you go in and there's a, you know, you drive through security and there's a crafty truck and everybody's all happy. And then you walk into some bullshit built room, but shooting at the prison made everything more serious.

Mac Brandt: And so we shot that. You know in a room at a prison dominic was freaked out. I was freaked out I mean we were cinching [00:11:00] those cuffs down on them that chin thing. I forgot about the chin thing chin thing was awful and then

Paul Adelstein: sponge thing is so the sponge

Mac Brandt: thing was brutal and It was freezing. It was cold cold cold cold in that room Oh, it was and when you do the nut on top to like put it it was brutal And so we went through it in rehearsal And he didn't want all that done, which I get.

Mac Brandt: And then we shot, I don't know, one or two. And then Stacey and I were standing over in the corner laughing and he and Dominic still in the chair. They're like doing a setup, new setup. And Stacey and I were standing in the corner laughing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Not at anybody. You know what I mean? Like Stacey was such a professional that he could like have a conversation and Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And then slide back into We were talking about You guys weren't Yeah.

Mac Brandt: No, I mean, we were talking about nonsense that had nothing to do with the day and we, [00:12:00] and you, Dominic, Dominic quietly said, can you guys shut up? Uh, and we didn't hear, and then we kept talking and we're just bullshitting. And Dominic then yells and he was like, shut up.

Mac Brandt: And we both sort of turned like what's happening. And with that, you know, he had all this water in his face and he's all hyping himself up and he just went and just spit, not at us, but. Uh huh. In our general direction. Shit. And it was, it ramped the day way up and Stacey looked at me, he was like, maybe we should stop talking.

Mac Brandt: I said, yeah, that sounds about right. So we walked away. And then after we were done, I mean, that took five, six hours to do. It was brutal.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It was a lot. There's a lot of people in the scene. There's a lot of reflection. And were, were the

Paul Adelstein: viewing room people there watching it? Was, could he see Michael? And Rob, I don't

Sarah Wayne Callies: think they'd opened the curtains at that point.

Mac Brandt: I don't remember, but I don't think so. [00:13:00] But then after Dominic came over at lunch, he came over. He was like, dude, I didn't like that. And I thought he was talking about me. He's like, I didn't like that. I was like, you know, I'm, I'm sorry. And he goes, no, no, I didn't like the scene. I'm sorry. I got all ramped up.

Mac Brandt: I'm like, anybody would. It was brutal.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. You know, it was incredibly vulnerable. I mean, also he's like, even if you weren't playing your own death, Or facing down your own death. Being strapped to a chair, being immobilized on a set, can be so vulnerable because there's so much going on around you.

Paul Adelstein: There's so much movement, so much equipment, you just feel vulnerable. Even if you're not playing that kind of thing. I mean, I do feel for him.

Mac Brandt: In between takes, we didn't let him out either. It was like once, yeah, once they shot, like the arms getting cinched down and all the other stuff, they just left him in there.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I mean, I remember [00:14:00] standing there through the whole scene. I don't remember ever Dom going away. I think he stayed there. He

Mac Brandt: stayed the whole time.

Paul Adelstein: I gotta say. I don't

Sarah Wayne Callies: think there was any tape acting on that one.

Paul Adelstein: As a viewer, um, it was very effective to see the look on the guards faces. Faces, particularly Bellic and C.

Paul Adelstein: O. Mack, who there was a, there is a kind of solemnity, you know, I mean, Bellic is portrayed as a sadist, essentially, but even in this situation, he looked uncomfortable, which is appropriate, which I thought was made it even, it makes it less like these evil, you know, it's not like a Bond movie. And you know, the show does have, as we've discussed many times, it does have a kind of graphic novel feel.

Paul Adelstein: Those moments, that moment did not.

Mac Brandt: I thought that too on the rewatching it is Stacey, Wade did a great job because [00:15:00] there's just a side looks of this is fucked up.

Paul Adelstein: This is fucked up.

Mac Brandt: But Stacey did such a great job of, of really getting across the gravity of the moment. Even then later when he comes in and says like, Hey, I'm sorry, everybody had to go through this like it, it was a real, it was a weird day just as a person, it was a hard thing to do.

Mac Brandt: Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I, you know, it's interesting and I'm going to say something here. Stay with me. But it's also something I would say to Dom and have, Dom can be a dick, um, and he can be difficult, but Dom's also the guy who comes up to you and goes, Hey, I was a dick and I was difficult. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And that was something that I, I think it's interesting, right?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Because, you know, Paul and I talk a lot about making this in 2005, 2006. Hollywood had different tolerances and [00:16:00] I respect in some, like, there's a part of me that wants to say, Hey, figure out a way to do your job without being a dick. There's also a part of me that recognizes that there are times where we do certain scenes that go all the way in that we might not have expected.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And we might not be the person we want to be in that moment on set. And I respect the hell out of someone who comes up and gives and takes responsibility for that.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, and on the uh, on the ramp up to that idea, Prison Break was the first time, especially in season two, we'll get into it later, where I learned, I'd been a season, a series regular before, where I watched actors advocate for themselves.

Paul Adelstein: Not just, oh, this script changed, you know, da da da da, but like on a, there was so much physical stuff, there was so much highly emotional stuff. To watch you and Wentworth in particular, and um, say, [00:17:00] I need this day to feel like this, I need this, you know, you guys are doing this right now, can, can you not be talking, can I do this before I do this.

Intro Music: Small things,

Paul Adelstein: things that don't screw up days and you don't, and people aren't necessarily dicks about it. Sometimes you get so frustrated, scared, angry, you know, sometimes you come off as a dick and then you apologize. But also part of that was Dominic saying what he needed in that moment, right? I mean, maybe the delivery system wasn't as good as it could be, but he made up for that.

Paul Adelstein: But that was a fascinating lesson just for me as an actor to watch people say,

Intro Music: I'm

Paul Adelstein: thinking in theater. We're so, you know, it's. It's, the play's yours once rehearsal is over, and then it's a machine that doesn't really change day to day. So you kind of work out all the kinks of how it's gonna work, right?

Paul Adelstein: The beginning, middle, and end is the same, you come to the theater same time, there's props in the same place. And a film set is never the same two days in a row. And you have to [00:18:00] sometimes same

Sarah Wayne Callies: two scenes in a

Paul Adelstein: row. Right. And you have to, sometimes you have to try to impose your will on, I need this to feel this way, be this way.

Paul Adelstein: And you guys were really good at it.

Mac Brandt: I think a lot of that had to do with, I watched that, like, I kept my head down, I didn't say shit, I was brand new to the whole thing, I didn't know what I was doing, but so much of that, what you're saying, I think had to do with, Sarah you can talk more about this, but like, had to do with where we were actually shooting, I mean, we were in the prison.

Mac Brandt: Again, this wasn't like a stage where they pump in AC or turn on the heat or somebody goes to get you coffee. It's like, it was, it was being in that prison was a whole other element I was unprepared for.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, we had a I always thought,

Mac Brandt: I talk about this all the time, I was young, I mean I was 23. And I always thought I was like a bit of a badass.

Mac Brandt: I could, I could handle it, you know, a stint in the joint and a small stint. God

Sarah Wayne Callies: knows you probably [00:19:00] came close enough. I mean, been around. A couple of times.

Mac Brandt: Yeah. But I remember walking, the first day we shot, first day I shot, and I walked through the, the galley, like the car galley where they check vehicles.

Mac Brandt: Oh, the Sally port. Sally port. And thank you. And the, and the arch and the two gates. And I took one step inside the first gate. And I realize, I'm like, Oh, I could never, ever go to prison. I can never go to prison. First, my first scene with Dominic was episode two, I think. And his cell for a good run of the show was John Wayne Gacy's solitary confinement cell.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, wait. Okay, but I got a point to order that one. I'm not sure that's true. I know Gacy was in that cell block.

Mac Brandt: The guard, the guard who worked. The actual real corrections officer guard who worked for the state of Illinois. Yeah. Was the guy who told me that.

Paul Adelstein: No. Now, I don't know if [00:20:00] he was. I don't remember you shot there, but I remember being told, Oh, let's go stand in case he saw, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Mac Brandt: That was the cell we shot that first scene in, according to this guy. He had guarded the DMZ, and then he had worked at Joliet for a little bit, and then he moved over to Statesville when they opened Statesville, which is a new prison. And then he got injured, so they kicked him back to do. Um, just like babysitting of Joliet and he would tell stories.

Mac Brandt: He was like, this is the scariest place in the world. I would never walk around here by myself. It's haunted, I'm terrified, it's, there's shadows everywhere, like, this dude was scared of the prison itself.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Wow. Well, you know, and I think one of the things that interested me about the way, so your CO life, you guys were all really different as COs, which I think is cool.

Sarah Wayne Callies: They didn't sort of make you a blanket

Mac Brandt: thing.

Paul Adelstein: True. Good point.

Mac Brandt: There, the guards, [00:21:00] the, Guards served as, as great pass offs from one scene to the, you know, you gotta travel through the prison and so there, but there are, in this episode too, there's the conversation between Phil and Stolte, Chris, where they're just bullshitting about football and trying to fake, but like there's, It was never wasted guard time.

Mac Brandt: Like, hey, we just got to walk from A to B. And you just They would put something in there to make it kind of Yeah, you'd give an idea that these guys are people too, which was awesome. Did you Were you told

Intro Music: anything?

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, were they tell you you were? Did they hook you up with a CEO? Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Sarah.

Paul Adelstein: That's a different question. No, I didn't know. I just wondered if anyone

Sarah Wayne Callies: was like, so here's your backstory. No, the only guy, the guy we talked to was the

Mac Brandt: guy who babysat the prison. I mean, it was abandoned by this point. And so he would tell us stuff like the thing that always blew my mind was they're not allowed.

Mac Brandt: They're not allowed to carry anything that can be used against [00:22:00] them. Like they don't have weapons. Like a cop has guns and tasers and knives. These CEOs don't have anything that could then be put on them. Wow. And so they're just alone. Like they have only their means to get out of a room. That's what always blew my mind.

Mac Brandt: Like, if shit goes sideways, it's on you, and nobody's coming in the time it would take to get 11 stab wounds in your lung. You know, you guys, I don't know if you've done this episode yet, but the riots episode. I mean, that was like Oh, yeah. That was, that was one of the scariest moments I've ever had on set as a As an actor.

Mac Brandt: As an actor. Because they, they ginned those guys up to go and a lot of those guys had been in Juliet prison. That's right. And were back thinking it was fun to be acting now. It was, it was something.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Was how how was the dialing them down process?

Mac Brandt: Oh, they just they [00:23:00] like they yelled cut and these guys just walked it off They thought it was funny and they were having fun.

Mac Brandt: I wasn't

Paul Adelstein: but was it like Controlled chaos or was it just every man for himself turn the cameras on everybody go crazy.

Mac Brandt: It was everybody go crazy There's a thing. I think you guys said it in the And this is how old we are in the DVD commentary, um, but like there's a moment they use the take, which is great.

Mac Brandt: I had one guy whisper in the back of my ear, I'm going to gut you pig. And I spun on him and I'm fucking screaming at him and I was screaming back the fuck away from me because they were collapsing on me. But that episode is crazy because that's the episode where I think it's the episode where they kill the other guard.

Mac Brandt: Yeah. It is. It is.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, where they killed, uh, Michael Cudlitz. And I think that might have been, uh, I could be wrong, but I think that might have been Mike Watkins. [00:24:00] And Watkins came from this as a director and, you know, because Watkins was, I remember sitting in the, uh, in the lunchroom, which again, the lunchroom was the prison lunchroom, right?

Sarah Wayne Callies: So like, even when you had your lunch break, they'd be like, all right, everybody go to mess. And And there'd be our catering set up in the lunchroom with the, you know, the chairs bolted to the ground. And I remember sitting at a table, I think it was, it was, I think Amaury was there, Watkins was there, a couple of the other actors, it might have been Wentworth.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And somebody said, uh, so Mike, I hear you were a Marine and he's got his hand, he's got his arm leaning on the table as he says this. Watkins grabs his forearm so fast that I, like, it was one of those, like, Jackie Chan moments where you're like, can I see you in slow motion? And he goes, Oh boy. I am a marine.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I was like, okay, okay. But it was that level, like, when you say, [00:25:00] you know, we ginned up these Gentlemen, like, there was that cowboy aspect to some of our directors and especially Watkins who's just like, dude, let's go. I love him.

Paul Adelstein: I've never seen a human turn that red. My audition from Stress and Anger, I mean, I took him to the hospital a couple times.

Paul Adelstein: I think more than once. Damn. Like, he literally looked, I was like, this, this is like scanners. This guy's head may explode.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, that explains why he turned to writing poetry years later.

Mac Brandt: My audition was the, so I had closed a play the night before.

Paul Adelstein: Where?

Mac Brandt: Chicago Shakespeare. Uh huh. And. There was a party afterwards, I went to the party as I like to do, and then, um, Mac, was there any, Mac, was there any alcohol at the party?

Mac Brandt: There may have been some alcohol at the party, and then, And you had lots of water, you went to Beverly, and you got a good night's sleep. There may have been some red headed asshole who had the great idea to go to a 4 a. m. bar, and convince everybody else to go, [00:26:00] so, you know. I found myself asleep at five in the morning with an audition at 1030 for a TV show.

Mac Brandt: This tracks. That, you know, there were no TV shows in Chicago, so nobody took it seriously. So I went in and I was so hungover, I was trying not to puke and trying to stay awake. I had one line, here are your papers, Link. So I go into the audition, but so the only way I could do it, I was like, here are your papers, Link.

Mac Brandt: And they're like, great, great. Oh, I'm sorry. I missed a key point. The very important point. They wanted seven headshots, which nobody ever, they, everybody only ever wants one. And I was like, I don't have seven. I have one. So they photocopied them. I go in the room, passing out the photocopies and Watkins holds it up.

Mac Brandt: He goes, what the fuck is this? You don't have headshots? I said, no, I only brought one. And he puts his fingers up in a [00:27:00] W. And he goes, whatever, and then he flips his hand over and do an M, move on. And I go, uh, I'm trying not to throw up on these people. And he goes, whatever, move on. And everyone sort of chuckles, and I'm confused.

Mac Brandt: Before, after you read. Before I read. So then he goes, he goes, What do you think about that? Whatever, move on. And I go, Huh? I don't know, man. I don't, like, I had nothing to say. Just needed to go to bed. So then I do this, you know, Here are your papers, Link. And they go, Okay, great. Um, go sit outside. Hang out for a minute.

Mac Brandt: I'm like, Oh, God, let me go home, please. So then they come out and they give me a scene. A three and a half page scene to be T bags. Uh, buddy. I don't, buddy, there's a better word. But to be the guy in the first episode or second episode holding his pocket, who Michael [00:28:00] kills. Right. And they go, okay, we, we want you to do this.

Mac Brandt: Take as much time as you want. I was like, oh my God, I gotta go home. Holy smokes. Exactly. So,

Sarah Wayne Callies: well, but it could just be a dummy scene to see if you can act and if you can, Oh, no, no,

Mac Brandt: no, no, no. So I go in, do that scene. I was on a Thursday, Thursday afternoon. I get a call from my agent. He says, you booked it. I said, okay, what?

Mac Brandt: And he goes, you're going to be the prison bitch. I go, what? He said, yeah, this is my first job, my first TV job. He says, great. And I'm bartending at the time at dark horse and we're having. I tell everybody and their brother, I'm like, guys, I just booked a TV show, I'm gonna be a prison bitch. This is the greatest.

Mac Brandt: Dark Horse. And Saturday, so I live, I, I trade off of being a TV guy now, Thursday and Friday, tell everybody that'll listen. Oh boy. Saturday afternoon, my agent calls [00:29:00] from a family barbecue and says, well, somebody at Fox decided you're too big.

Paul Adelstein: I, I agree. Oh, but you do have that, that kind of, especially then that little boy face, it would have been, it would have been kind of haunting. Well, the size thing, if you think

Mac Brandt: about it, and I had this conversation with, I had this conversation with Watkins. The size thing, but you could have eaten Robert Knepper in prison.

Mac Brandt: It doesn't matter how big you are. It's a power structure.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, oh, oh, right, right, right. This is a psychological, not a physical. And then they cast

Paul Adelstein: somebody who, I mean,

Mac Brandt: somebody who's pretty, right. But so Saturday, the rest of Saturday. And Sunday, I didn't have a job and I was despondent. And now I have to go back to everybody and tell them like, yeah, nevermind.

Mac Brandt: I'm not into TV. Monday morning they called and they said, Hey, they feel bad. They're going to give you that other part. Which ended up being [00:30:00] great because the bitch part was one episode. Way more episodes. Way more work.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah.

Mac Brandt: So

Paul Adelstein: that was

Mac Brandt: great.

Paul Adelstein: Wait, is the guy that got it, the guy that ends up getting killed later?

Paul Adelstein: Or is it just a one episode? Was it a one episode? It was one episode. And then you ended up doing 15. And then I did 15

Mac Brandt: episodes. All, all in season one. Do you come in season two? No. It changed the trajectory of my life.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And you got married when? Was it between seasons one and two?

Mac Brandt: Way later, after we moved out to Los Angeles.

Mac Brandt: But you were

Paul Adelstein: dating Was it way later? You were dating Amy. She was at that Christmas party. Yeah,

Mac Brandt: Amy and I had just started dating. Amy and I went on our first date the day Prison Break premiered. I learned a lot of lessons on that show. I had a party for that first episode I was in. I had like, I don't know, 20, 30 people at my house.

Mac Brandt: Family, friends, everybody. Episode starts, episode ends, I'm not in it, I have been cut out, ah, oh [00:31:00] no, yeah, and everyone's looking at me like, well, wait, where, what happened to you, like, oh,

Sarah Wayne Callies: you're like, wait for it, I'm going to be in the Barbie movie,

Mac Brandt: the only thing that saved me, was the movie. The only thing that saved me was at the last commercial break, they do the preview for, you know, what's on tonight's local news, and they're like, we take you to Joliet State Prison for a new TV show, and they're filming like B roll of the prison, and I'm in the deep background.

Mac Brandt: And I'm like, see, see there. I'll be on the local news. It's okay.

Paul Adelstein: Oh my God. Did they ever come to you and say, we're going to need you for six episodes? Or was it literally like, we need you next

Mac Brandt: week. We need you

Paul Adelstein: tomorrow.

Mac Brandt: We need you tomorrow. And I get these scripts and they would say, they would say like CO number one or yard CO.

Mac Brandt: You know, different parts of the prison, block A, right? And then on episode six, I get a script. Yeah. In this, [00:32:00] and it says, it says C O M A C, M A C, M A C K, right? So they spelled Which is wrong, but sure. No, so this is, so I'm reading it, and I was like. Who's this asshole C. O. Mac? I'm Mac. And I'm reading all the other guards, like Yard C.

Mac Brandt: O. And I'm looking at the lines, I'm like, okay. I'm like, but this sucks. They cast some guy for, like, two scenes. And they gave him my name, and I called my agent. I'm like, this is bullshit. I'm like, I'm supposed to be C. O. Mac, and now the And he goes, yeah, dude, I think you're probably C. O. Mac. Tell me. I'm like, no, I'm Yard C.

Mac Brandt: O. I'm, I'm Block A C. O. What do you mean? He's got a promotion, bro. Yeah, C O M A C, baby.

Sarah Wayne Callies: C O M A C, baby. Okay, I want to talk about the wrap party. Because Chicago. In Hawaii, we have cookouts. While the sun is up. We drink a little beer, we mostly eat. And then at a certain point we go, goodnight [00:33:00] everybody, and we go home.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Chicago, from the land where they invented winter, was like, we don't need to be sober until March. Starting at about, you know.

Paul Adelstein: And there needs to be a bar in every corner that you can walk through the snow to.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, so, so I'm gonna set this, I'm gonna set this up. Because it ends in the street. But it starts with my husband and I, I've never been to a rat party before.

Sarah Wayne Callies: My husband and I are in a, uh, taxi. Before they had Uber or Lyft. And it's St. Patrick's Day in Chicago. So it's not wrap party night. It's they dyed the river green. It's every white person from a thousand mile radius has showed up. It's

Paul Adelstein: amateur. It's amateur night is what it is.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh boy. We're in the car and we're not too far from, I guess it was Barcelona, Barcelona, whatever, wherever it was.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I look out the window, and I see a [00:34:00] guy walk up to a mailbox, open it, vomit, close the mailbox, and keep walking. It's a

Paul Adelstein: felony, actually. That's a felony.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Settle down, Narc. Oh, we are not in Kansas anymore. Uh, so.

Paul Adelstein: Goodness gracious.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So, Mac, what is your first memory of the, of the rap party?

Mac Brandt: Well, I lived across the street from Barcelona.

Mac Brandt: And so I watched as everybody arrived, and then it was my first, uh, time at an open bar party.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh

Mac Brandt: boy,

Sarah Wayne Callies: was that ever a miscalculation?

Mac Brandt: Yeah. You didn't go to any weddings? You didn't go to any weddings? I

Paul Adelstein: guess you were a

Mac Brandt: kid. I was young. And, but I'll, like, I didn't pay for drinks really when I went out in the city, but it was.

Mac Brandt: I guess. It was a nicety. It wasn't like a prerequisite that we should drink as much as humanly possible. So, I go to this, [00:35:00] I walk across the street, I go to the party, really don't remember much until the end. Okay, so,

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'm gonna, then I'm gonna set the stage for you because there's, there's a part of the story that I think you will remember.

Sarah Wayne Callies: At some point, the party ended, arguably because we had bankrupted Rupert Murdoch. With our Chicago cast's ability to drink.

Mac Brandt: Can I interrupt real quick? Please. Okay, because there's two parts to the end. There was the part you're going to tell, which was the end end. But the part before that, we walk outside.

Mac Brandt: Now again, I live here, like I know these people, these degenerates on the street on St. Paddy's Day. I know what we're in for, but there's a lot of LA people that do not know the night they are out on. No. And one of our bosses, Yeah, yeah, who remained nameless, who shall remain nameless, very nice guy. Oh, wow.

Mac Brandt: Oh, I forgot this part of the story. He drank [00:36:00] along with me. Oh, that's always a mistake,

Sarah Wayne Callies: you

Mac Brandt: guys.

Sarah Wayne Callies: If you ever

Mac Brandt: meet Matt Grant,

Sarah Wayne Callies: don't drink with

Mac Brandt: him. And he did not have the same, uh, state of mind that I had. No one has your liver, Mac. And he walked outside and there were these four, like, just full jock bros, big ten guys in for St.

Mac Brandt: Paddy's Day weekend. Something happened. There was a bump, there was a mouth off, something. One of our bosses decided that it would be a good idea to fight one of them.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I gotta say, this was not a gentleman with a ton of fighting experience from what I could

Mac Brandt: Uh, no, and at the moment, not a ton of balance.

Mac Brandt: And, uh, there were he had four guys around him, and there were some other people, uh, high up on the show who just didn't know what to do. And I was standing outside at the same moment, and it got It got real close to [00:37:00] a severe beating on this man.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We almost ended up on page six with that one. Yeah,

Mac Brandt: I was, oh, in Chicago, you would have been on the cover.

Mac Brandt: And he hit his, he hit his head. He hit his head. He hit his head. And then we had to put him in a cab. Then I believe

Paul Adelstein: he never had another drink. Was that right? Really? I think that, I remember in season two, he was like, I don't know, an alcoholic or anything, but it, it freaked me out. Like, like, not in a, like, I have a problem way, but he was like, I don't like that

Mac Brandt: feeling.

Mac Brandt: Well, I get that. And that's the proper reaction that people should. I mean,

Sarah Wayne Callies: he woke up the next morning going, I'm bleeding from the head. How did I get here? Who? Because there were some phone calls the next day about like, Hey, can anybody help piece this story together?

Mac Brandt: I had to give 50 to the cab driver that we put him in because he was bleeding.

Mac Brandt: He was bleeding in the back of the cab. Like he's not definitely gonna barf. [00:38:00]

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, he's not that guy. Okay, so that's, so that's, that's the beginning of the end. That was when we were told to all go home. We didn't go home. There was some, there was, somebody said, come to my house. Mac, I don't, I don't know if you know whose house this was, but I, I don't remember.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I remember thinking, I kind of got in there. I think somebody had, I think it was one of the actors actually, but it might've been a producer, opening the fridge and going, Oh, this is what it means to be a bachelor. There was like a bunch of Perrier and like a steak. And I think that was it. And then I like opened the freezer and there were, you know, 12 bottles of vodka, you know, I was just like, Oh, this is what happens when men live alone and they've got money.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. The party was fine at a certain point. I'm sure it was me that pulled the ripcord because I, you know, I can't keep up with anybody. It's like four in the

Mac Brandt: morning at this point.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right. And so you're like, yeah, yeah, I'll, I'll leave with you guys. So it's my husband and you and me. And we tried to call a cab, but of course, it's four in the morning in Chicago,

Paul Adelstein: on [00:39:00] St.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Patrick's Day. And every cab driver has, I assume, thrown up their hands and said, I quit, hate humanity, and I'm going to go live in a monastery in Tibet. Um, and as we're waiting for the taxi, you and my husband start talking about fighting.

Paul Adelstein: I know it's coming.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I have to say, I'm not entirely sure what happened.

Paul Adelstein: Hold on, Sarah, tell us about your, in as much detail as you're comfortable with, tell us about your husband's background.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's going to take too long, but at the time, my husband was studying Brazilian Jiu Jitsu with Carlson Gracie in Chicago. He was actually Carlson Gracie's last student before Carlson passed.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And Carlson took him on because before that I'd been in Toronto and he'd been studying with Vlad Vasiliev, who was the guy who brought Sistema to North America. My husband's a big martial arts guy. He's never competed. He's never taught. The internet says a bunch of stuff about him that's not true. And you know, we've been [00:40:00] married forever, which means there are things about my husband that I could say that are not nice, but I will say he is not only my favorite person in the world and the smartest person I know, but he is also a truly gifted fighter.

Sarah Wayne Callies: He's just good at it. He's a legit fighter. He's a fighter.

Mac Brandt: He's a fighter.

Sarah Wayne Callies: But he's a little guy, right? He's not, he, people don't look at him and go, Ooh, I can't mess with that guy. Right? He, he, he snuck up on you. I mean, he definitely snuck up on me. Right. So Mac, you want to take the story over for me?

Mac Brandt: Well, from what I remember, we're standing, I think we were standing on Dearborn.

Mac Brandt: So anyone that knows Chicago, we were like in the Gold Coast area. It was a nice neighborhood. On a major street. On four in the morning on St. Paddy's Day and, you know, I was a real peacock back in the days. I thought I was, uh, I had it. I'm 23 years old and been in bar fights and, you know, I knew how to fight.

Mac Brandt: And then there's Josh, my new buddy. And you guys were super [00:41:00] good friends. We were, at this point, we were very good friends. We had grown to be very close. Nope. Nope. And Josh was telling me like he's a, you know, this is also the early 2000s. Like nobody knew disciplines. And he's like, yeah, man, I trained to fight.

Mac Brandt: UFC was new. Yeah, I'm like trained to fight. You just fight or you don't. I don't. What are you talking about? Trained to fight. Like, I know, like, toddlers say, OK, grab my wrist and I'll show you a move. And then you grab it wrong. And they're like, no, no, do it like this. So Josh and I and you're going to have to take over here.

Mac Brandt: I train to fight too. I live above a bar. Yeah, it's yeah. I'm like, I have training to um, you'll have to take over the more specifics, but I mean, I remember that Josh was like, I do remember having him off his feet and having him off the ground. Mm hmm. And it did not work well for me.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, I think he just grappled on.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I remember [00:42:00] at one point trying to look for the taxi and turning back and the two of you had turned into Calvin and Hobbes, you know, where it's just like a dust ball with arms and limbs and legs and expletives going everywhere. And I was like, something and your face right now, like you're laughing, you're smiling.

Sarah Wayne Callies: At some point, you both stood up. Also laughing and smiling and like possibly a little bit banged up and I think somewhat dirty and there might have been a little bit of blood but you were both grinning like children and I remember in my head going get in the goddamn taxi and go home before I have to get bail

Mac Brandt: money for one of you.

Mac Brandt: I was bleeding from my mouth and I have no idea from where but my blood was coming off my mouth. It was a hell of a rap party. It wasn't like a couple of buddies trying something out. Like, I'd started that way and started as sort of half assery, and then I [00:43:00] remember thinking like, Well, this is bullshit.

Mac Brandt: I'm not gonna let this guy beat me. I'm like, I'm bigger than he is. He's not a

Sarah Wayne Callies: big guy.

Mac Brandt: I'm bigger than he is. And I've learned this lesson now multiple times in my life. Right. That the size in the doesn't matter. To somebody who knows what they're doing. And I think I turned on him quickly to which he must have thought, well, fuck this.

Mac Brandt: I know more than he does. I'm not going to let this happen. And then it became a real thing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: If I know Josh, if I know Josh, the thought in his head was fun, just got excited about it. Um, okay. We should wrap this up. There is one thing, Paul, that we, that we have to have

Paul Adelstein: Mac back,

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think, I think we're going to have to do a separate drinking game episode.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh. Ooh, I like that. Because there's a prison break drinking game and we've asked our fans to come up with a pugnac. A cocktail called a pugnac. Based on, well pugnac is the insulin blockers that Michael Schofield buys from C Note. We decided it sounds like some kind [00:44:00]

Paul Adelstein: of liqueur.

Mac Brandt: Can the drinking game be every time I'm on screen getting lost in Wentworth's eyes?

Mac Brandt: Because that happened. No, because we'll all be too drunk too

Paul Adelstein: quickly. His

Mac Brandt: eyes. We're too old for that. I

Paul Adelstein: can't even. I just done like, I just done watching the show. We keep commenting on it.

Mac Brandt: It's just like, my God, they should have had separate billing.

Paul Adelstein: Uh, we have one more, um, No, we need to take a break first though, Sarah.

Paul Adelstein: Great. Let's take a break. We'll be right back. Okay. We're back. Um, all right. We do have to say goodbye because we've been talking for, oh, longer than you all will hear because we've talked for a long, long time and there's going to be. We'll cut stuff. We're going to have to do this. We'll put it in bonus materials.

Paul Adelstein: Don't cut anything. Nothing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We'll put it in bonus materials. The rap party bonus materials, but okay, here's something we have a little

Paul Adelstein: tradition we're gonna do. Yeah, go ahead, Sarah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, because we mentioned this in the rewatch, we have another fan contest and Mac, you can enter if [00:45:00] you'd like. Oh, I'm a fan.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, there is a scene between Sucre and his cousin Manche, where they talk about the various things that they have done and covered for each other. And at the very end. Sucre throws down the trump card and he goes, the donkey. And Manche goes something like, you promise never to tell anyone about that. I want fans to send us their best, uh, their best guesses at what the donkey story might have been.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Where,

Paul Adelstein: where do they do that, Sarah?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Uh, they can submit them to our email account, prisonbreakatcaliber studio. com. Or if they want to, they can tell it to us on, uh, they can DM us on at prison break podcast. Thanks. All that can happen.

Mac Brandt: Do you think you probably want to say you don't want any pictures accompanying their theories?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I don't want any photos of a donkey engaged in anything that Couture's

Mac Brandt: accompanying donkey theory is probably not great. Nope, nope,

Sarah Wayne Callies: nope, nope, nope, nope, nope,

Mac Brandt: nope,

Sarah Wayne Callies: nope,

Mac Brandt: nope. [00:46:00] No

Paul Adelstein: attachments.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Thanks, thanks, Mac. Um,

Paul Adelstein: yes. And, um, we have a call in topic for the week. I'm just gonna jump in there, Sarah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, please.

Paul Adelstein: Um, please call us on our Prison Break tip line, 401 3P BREAK. That's 401 3P BREAK.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We're not kidding, Mac. He's lashing. It's not

Paul Adelstein: funny. You should lash. You can call it. You can leave a message. And our topic of the week is, have you ever dressed up as a character from Prison Break? Halloween, conventions, roleplay, we don't judge, we don't judge, but we do pry, so call in and let us know.

Paul Adelstein: We want to hear about when you dressed up as Agent Cullerman. Or

Sarah Wayne Callies: Sarah.

Paul Adelstein: Or C. O. Mack.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Or C. O. Mack. Or C. O. Mack. And, uh, don't forget to subscribe on our Watch Party, to our Watch Party episodes on Patreon. Link is in the show page, wherever you're listening right now. Um, Mack, thank you so much for being here.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We have two wrap up questions for you. I'm gonna ask one, Paul's gonna ask the last one. The first is, we ask this of most of our [00:47:00] guests, if you were on death row, what would your last meal be?

Mac Brandt: Ribs. I've thought, I've thought of this question, ribs. Uh, twin, Twin Acres? Good call, yes. Is that a Chicago place?

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, my brother lived across from Twin Acres for like five years, like literally across the street on Sedgwick.

Mac Brandt: Twin Acres is great, but Barnelli's is great too, the Portillo's shoot off, where they do the ribs. But yeah, one of the two of them.

Paul Adelstein: Okay. And here's what we wrap up with Mac. You need to fill in the blank here because we do like to leave our audience with some practical advice like don't go to, go to auditions, don't live above a bar, so you're gonna fill in the blank.

Paul Adelstein: Remember, dear listeners, don't go to prison, but if you do,

Mac Brandt: remember to, I'm cycling through the things that are appropriate to say. It doesn't have to

Sarah Wayne Callies: be appropriate.

Mac Brandt: I mean, you gotta, you gotta go with whatever gang you look like. Okay. [00:48:00] You were like, if you got to be a Nazi, stay alive, you know, you can just find out like what level of Nazi they need you to be.

Paul Adelstein: I don't think I'd qualify somehow.

Sarah Wayne Callies: This reminds me of when the BLM movement happened and you were like. You know what? I'm gonna get a lot of work out of this. And I was like, what do you mean? And you're like, because one of my stock and trades is racist cops and there's about to be a whole lot of racist cops on TV.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And it turned out you were right.

Mac Brandt: Yeah. I remember watching January 6th thinking like, this is going to work out well for me.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Which is amazing. You're going to win your first Emmy playing one of the people who went to prison for January 6th.

Paul Adelstein: Hopefully the guy with the buffalo head.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Gotta be buffalo guy.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Gotta be buffalo guy. And I gotta say, just briefly, because there are people listening who don't know you, You could not be further as a human being from

Paul Adelstein: a rioter,

Sarah Wayne Callies: from a neo Nazi, from like, you are one of the most educated, intelligent, kind, [00:49:00] inclusive people I know, which is why every time I see you playing a racist cop, I just think.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You gotta love being a ginger.

Mac Brandt: I mean, it works well. As long as white people keep fucking up, I'll keep working.

Paul Adelstein: And with that, ladies and gentlemen, and everyone else.

Sarah Wayne Callies: All right. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul is a Caliber Studio production. Your hosts have been friends, but not besties, Sarah Wayne Callies and Paul Edelstein.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Our prison warden has been producer Ben Haber. Our head of Jailhouse Rock is Paul Edelstein, who made the music for this podcast. Keeping us slim and trim, the prison yard has been sound designer and editor, the great Jeff Schmidt. Keeping us up to date on the outside world is production assistant Drew Austin.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Our prison artist, logo, and brand designer is John Nunziato and LittleBigBrands. Check them out at www. littlebigbrands. com. Follow us! On Instagram, at Prison Break Podcast. Email us at prisonbreakingatcaliber studio. com, and call us at 401 [00:50:00] 3P B R E A K. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul has been a Caliber Studio production.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Thank you for listening.