Camden Bernatz (00:00:02) - Welcome to brands and campaigns, the stories and people behind clever marketing moves powered by EKR. I'm your host, Camden Bernatz, creative director and head of brand strategy at EKR. All right, so today's episode we're going to be talking about a really fun piece of work from a brand I'm sure everyone listening to this podcast has heard of before, which is Tinder, maybe have even used it. A little confession here. I met my wife on Tinder. That's if you ask my grandma. We met in class, but technically we started talking on Tinder, so this one hits close to home. And, there this word from Tinder's. It's a campaign called. It starts with a swipe, a multichannel effort that that talks about many different stories or little vignettes or featurettes, if you will, of different stories, relationships, beginnings of love and things like that, that start with the swipe. And, the work today that we're going to talk about came from mischief USA. And our guest today is Kevin Mulroy, partner and Executive director at Mischief USA.
Camden Bernatz (00:01:03) - And I'm going to have him join us in just a minute here. But I really like the way that the work sample, the featured work on the mischief website features the the problem, the solution and kind of the insight because it really lays out the strategy behind this work. And so I'm just going to read right from the, the website what the problem was that started this off, which is that Tinder has popularized the swipe right. You swipe left, you swipe right. Depending on how you're feeling the the person on the screen. And it was more than ten years ago that Tinder started kind of making that swipe reference become popular and part of our social media experience. And that action, though, has become ubiquitous among other copycat apps. Lots of other apps have used the same function of swiping to to match with people online. And then also the perception has kind of moved away from being a dating app to more of a hookup app. While some people might definitely want it for that, it's got a little bit more of a different stigma than what Tinder set out to be.
Camden Bernatz (00:01:59) - And so that's the problem is how can we kind of reclaim the the swipe feature or that or that term? And how can we help to shift the perception of, of Tinder as a whole? And so like I said, I've got Kevin here with us today, partner and executive director at mischief USA, who's going to give us some kind of behind-the-scenes on how this campaign came to be and and what insights we can take from it. So, Kevin, thank you for being here today.
Kevin Mulroy (00:02:20) - Thank you so much. How's it going? It's going.
Camden Bernatz (00:02:22) - Well. Going very well. Appreciate your time today. Like I just said a minute ago, I read from the website kind of the problem. And that's obviously probably a watered-down version of whatever the larger brief was or how the project started out. So can you first catch up with speed? How did that problem kind of crystallize? What did the initial brief or, or outline look like? How did it land on your desk?
Kevin Mulroy (00:02:41) - Yeah, you.
Kevin Mulroy (00:02:42) - Kind of touched on it a little bit. Tinder first came to us and they did not have an awareness problem. They have a perception problem. and that problem is that everybody I mean, they've been around the longest by far, and they've, they kind of have this stigma of being, just a hookup app. And, you know, the problem that they the thing that they wanted to change, they came to us and they said, can you basically convince people that we're not just a hookup app? And that were much more than that? The problem is, when you've got something that's so deeply ingrained into culture and the way people think about a specific brand that's been around as long as they have, it's very hard to unchanged. It's hard to unring that bell, so to speak. It's hard to, you know, change their opinion on something that's sort of deeply held like that. And so when they first came to us with that request, the first thing that we did was our strategy team, you know, dove into action.
Kevin Mulroy (00:03:35) - And I think what we do pretty well at mischief is at that stage, make sure that when a client comes to us with a problem that we are solving the right problem. So we will begin to ask a lot of different questions around the brand and the people who use it. And, and sort of like where the clients are heads are at to make sure that we're solving the right problem. And and then what we landed on is maybe there's a better problem to solve than just trying to convince people of something. It's going to be hard to, you know, change their minds on. And so the problem solution we landed on was let's instead of changing this widely held perception, let's change the definition of a hookup and, and show how that's just sort of like the first step toward a million or trillion different outcomes. You can have a million different types of relationships you can have on Tinder. because another thing that we talked about is certainly with this generation, in particular, the definition of a, of a hookup or the definition of a relationship has changed.
Kevin Mulroy (00:04:34) - It can mean so many different things. It does not necessarily mean courting. And then you, you get married and you have kids and you whatever, you know, it can mean so many have so many different outcomes. So we wanted to play with that thought. And again, just make sure that we were solving the right thing.
Camden Bernatz (00:04:51) - Awesome. Yeah I like that. And then that line it starts with a swipe is not necessarily redefining what it is, but lots of different hits can start with the swipe. Like whether whether it is a hookup, whether it's a it's marriage and kids, whether it's just a fun short-term relationship or whatever. It all starts with the swipe. And so I like that that open-mindedness of that line and clearly has legs to be used in a lot of different iterations and different mediums and things like.
Kevin Mulroy (00:05:14) - That. It's funny, I can add to that, by the way. It was actually because the problem was so specifically about hook up this perception of like it being a hookup app.
Kevin Mulroy (00:05:24) - We were going much more right at like the original line was, it starts with the hookup and we're like, let's just own it. Let's just, you know, like everybody thinks of us that way. Let's own it. And then and then play with it. And so that was the sort of the origin of that line and that thought. And, you know, there was certainly some concern on the part of the clients and they completely understand that we were going to be reinforcing, especially taken out of context. We'd be reinforcing that perception. So that made them a little nervous, but it felt right to lean into what they're known for, that swiping motion. Or that's what you know, that that behavior and using that as sort of like a yeah is an easier way into that thought.
Camden Bernatz (00:06:06) - Awesome. That's a very interesting insight. I wonder how that would have been. Yeah. Proceed. If it starts with the hookup. Definitely would have been some buzz for sure. Whether positive or negative. And so I guess this is the point for listeners.
Camden Bernatz (00:06:17) - You pause again, I always refer to this, you know, this being an audio podcast, of course, we can't show you all the examples here, but pause the podcast, go check this out. There's multiple different little 15-second videos. There's some static imagery, some digital ads and things like that where lots of different examples of, I guess you could say different pairings, different. There's some creative headlines like, you know, a toothbrush at their place or someone to go to heaven with, or a man who isn't afraid for to ask for directions. Those are some of the print examples. And then there's there's these little vignettes of people who are, you know, if someone's at the bar, someone's at their house, someone's at a museum, and they're just different pairings. And so better than I can describe them with words. You should go check these out and then come back to hear about how this came to be. But so you mentioned a minute ago, Kevin, that you had some strategists that got on this.
Camden Bernatz (00:07:03) - How does this typical, how is the process or a campaign like this typically work through mischief? Do you have a team of strategists then, that put together the brief hand to the creative team kind of traditionally, or do you have like creatives as a strategist, what's that look like on your end?
Kevin Mulroy (00:07:17) - Yeah, it's a great question because it's one thing that we do differently at mischief than any other agency I've worked at. The way we do things is we treat the strategic process much more like a creative review than anywhere else I've been. so we have incredible strategists. and our head of strategy, Jeff McCrory, is fantastic. but what they'll do is go off and come up with, let's say, 8 to 10 different ways into a problem, and then we sit down as, the creative leadership team that's, myself, Bianca, and Greg Hahn are always in those meetings, along with our head of strategy and our president, and we beat up the strategies. And, you know, we say like, this doesn't feel as true.
Kevin Mulroy (00:07:58) - This like, let's pivot this language, let's lose this one and this one. And we try to get that down to like 4 or 5. And then we'll bring those to the client and repeat that same process over again. And so that sort of gets them on board very early in this strategic process, which where they'll have a ton of great input. You know, they'll have anecdotes or insights that we wouldn't have had access to, and they'll make them better. And the goal is to get the brief down to one or maybe sometimes two. Sometimes we'll brief in two briefs. I think we did that on this one. I can't quite remember, but so, well, before we go anywhere near creative executions or any sort of creative thinking, we really want to be in lockstep on what the takeaway message is going to be and what the point we're making needs to be, because that really feels like the most important thing is making sure that, you know, you have a strong point of view and you're saying the right thing, and then we'll go off and try to find the most interesting or provocative way to express that.
Kevin Mulroy (00:08:53) - But it's crucial for us to make sure that the smart part that is very grounded in insights around the brand is dead on, and then we move on to creative.
Camden Bernatz (00:09:01) - That makes total sense. So how much of this, this kind of, this insight combined with the problem, how much was that you suggesting it to the client versus the people at Tinder came and said, we know we need to solve this. We know this is the takeaway. You give us the creative ideas. How much did you help shape the actual strategy, meaning your team?
Kevin Mulroy (00:09:18) - Well, a lot on this one because as I said, what they thought they were asking for and it makes sense, was let's try to convince people that we're not a hookup app anymore. And the the strategic pivot that we brought back to them was that's going to be tough. But here's a here's something that you can solve. You can change the way people define that term hookup. Right. And of course, all of this stuff is done hand in hand with our clients.
Kevin Mulroy (00:09:42) - It's never like, you know, go off to the top of a mountain and come back with the, with the engraved, you know, stones or whatever. So it's, it's it's always got to be done together. And that's why, as I said, when we workshopped the briefs with the clients, there's so much more on board with, the insights that we're building everything around, and they're more sort of predisposed to understand stuff that's a little bit more provocative and exactly why we're bringing them stuff that's a little that pushes a little bit and can be provocative. Now, having said that, with this specific client Tinder, they're great. And they they want stuff that pushes. They want stuff that's provocative. They want it to be big and bright and bold, and eye-catching and, and grabby. You know, they want the they want the scratch. They want that.
Camden Bernatz (00:10:29) - Stuff. Awesome. That's just evidence of the the value of having that kind of trust with the relationship between client agency. I know, there's been times at my agency, ECR, where there are certain clients that come in and they're kind of hard set on a certain direction.
Camden Bernatz (00:10:43) - It doesn't mean it's a bad direction. Maybe they have it. They have it totally locked in what they need. But when you identify something like, you know what? What you're asking might be hard to do. What if instead of trying to change this perception, what if we just what if we kind of reclaim what a, what a hookup can be or what that leads to? Like basically what I'm saying is just kind of shift the strategy a little bit. It's helpful to be able to have that relationship where you feel like you can do that and help them be able to hear you on that, I guess. And so, yeah, obviously good work has come out of this, as evidenced by this campaign, but something I think all of us in the agency can do better is make sure we're providing not only the value of the creative execution but helping validate or add to or improve the strategy itself.
Kevin Mulroy (00:11:20) - Totally. And I think just to add to that, I think that, the outcome was going to be the same, which is the key component to this.
Kevin Mulroy (00:11:28) - It's, you know, that we are we were still going to be changing perception of the brand and the app, which was the goal. It's just a slightly different way at that same goal that felt more achievable and maybe more of a in an authentic voice that the audience were talking to would buy. You know, they'd actually believe it if we didn't come out. If you come out and say, you know, I'm cool, trust me, you know, it's just you gotta find a different way to do it. So and not to say that they were asking us to do that, but it's just we just had to find a slightly off-kilter way to get to the same goal.
Camden Bernatz (00:12:05) - Well, it goes back to that old classic I don't know who said it first, but kind of that idea that your brand isn't what you say, it's what other people say about you. Right? And so it's like you may not want to be just the quote-unquote hookup app, but if that's what you are currently, you can't just tell them, no, we're not.
Camden Bernatz (00:12:19) - Oh, they're nothing like you. It's is what your brand is. Let's make the best of what that moment is and try to adapt from there. But yeah, yeah, you said it best, so totally makes sense. So when you were putting this idea together and you had kind of the strategy in place, were the different placements of creative kind of decided in advance that, you know, we need X amount of videos and this billboard or this digital ad or were things kind of put together and then you saw where it might fit in different placements after the fact.
Kevin Mulroy (00:12:47) - We knew that it was going to be mostly a pretty traditional campaign in terms of we needed, video assets. We needed, a lot of out of home. We needed social. We knew that. But I would say that, you know, it took this was the first truly global campaign that I think Tinder's ever done. And so it was an enormous undertaking. And so I don't think they had the I'm positive they didn't have the media bot yet.
Kevin Mulroy (00:13:15) - They knew the types of media that they were asking for. But this ended up being translated into 11 languages in something like 170 countries. Wow. So we needed to find something that, you know, took a while to find something that was simple and clean enough and that we could build universal insights off of and find a lot of them, that could be translated into all these different languages and, and make sense culturally in all these different countries. So, it took a while to get to that. And so once we landed on that, then they felt like, okay, now we know, you know, what specific media we can go by.
Camden Bernatz (00:13:49) - Cool.
Camden Bernatz (00:13:50) - That's always a challenge. Sometimes sometimes you have certain things where you know, you need to fill these channels. Think of something that works versus totally open-ended. But then after the fact, you need to be able to say where it should go and doesn't mean one is better than the other. But yeah, I'm just curious about that process because there's obviously lots of different places that this has been executed.
Camden Bernatz (00:14:08) - And I wondered how many of them were kind of thought in advance. and also.
Kevin Mulroy (00:14:12) - I think, sorry, just real quick to build on that. I think that's the strength of a really simple but huge platform like this, is that even if they had already bought media and then after the fact said, oh, and also we need you to make it work here, here, here and here. We definitely it can flex in any direction, which is what we love about it. You know, it's it works for brand X, it works for, activations. It works for social. It works for, I don't know, a podcast read. It can really work for anything because it's so simple and universal. So that's that's partly I think that's what we all kind of fell in love with.
Camden Bernatz (00:14:47) - Well, along that same line, I noticed that it starts with the swipe has the little trademark thing. What was the kind of decision behind that? Is that was that something planned from the beginning, that we were trying to find a line that could be like a trademark line or just fit so well that came after the fact?
Kevin Mulroy (00:15:01) - Well, it's.
Kevin Mulroy (00:15:01) - Just such this is not a short-term, campaign. This is meant to be a long-term global campaign that we that we use for years. So it really was just I think that's pretty common practice for something. Is, that they're going to lean on for a while. Cool.
Camden Bernatz (00:15:19) - So I, again, if you if you haven't if anyone's listening to the podcast hasn't check this out yet, you need to go look at what we're talking about because it's got a very you talked about eye-catching, distinct, vibrant style. It's clearly those things. How would you as as someone who helped put this together, how would you describe the art direction or the visual style of this campaign or what was what what what did you think of before it actually came to be? What kind of stuff that you guys talk about that you were trying to capture?
Kevin Mulroy (00:15:43) - Yeah, I.
Kevin Mulroy (00:15:44) - Mean, we wanted it to be almost this juxtaposition, or maybe not just juxtaposition, but we wanted it to be sort of very simple, relatable moments in any sort of a relationship that, you know, as I said, it could run the gamut of types of relationships, but these simple, recognizable moments that are easily translatable but done in sort of a, poppy, surrealistic, eye-catching style that, you know, was bright and fun.
Kevin Mulroy (00:16:12) - And so we just, we sort of love that combination of almost mundane and simple and very recognizable, as I said, kind of contrasted with something that's like bright and surrealistic and and fun.
Camden Bernatz (00:16:24) - Interesting. I like that description because you're right, there's nothing like none of these people in most of these are doing anything that we're out of the ordinary. But yeah, there's aspects of either the color or they're wearing or one little aspect of what something is included that's like that obviously kind of is shocking in a unique way. But it's yeah, it's it's adding the uniqueness and diversity to kind of mundane situations.
Kevin Mulroy (00:16:46) - Exactly.
Kevin Mulroy (00:16:47) - And I should call out, the photographer's name is Paul. I'll butcher his last name, Kurucz, who, we really collaborated closely with on on bringing that to life. And he was amazing to work with.
Camden Bernatz (00:17:00) - So, along that same line, when it comes to let's talk about like the video, for example. But I guess I guess I also love photography. How specifically did you and your team like outline, like shot direction or specific framing versus you turned it over to the producer, the the videographer, the photographer to kind of come up with that and pitch you ideas?
Kevin Mulroy (00:17:20) - I think since we knew the look and feel that we liked already and that we were going for certainly with the out of home and the photography, it informed a very narrow director search, like the kind of director we were looking for, that could do this sort of like surrealistic, poppy, bright look, but make sure that it's still grounded in, the story and that you don't lose track of the simplicity of the story. So that was really important to us. And so we ended up going with, a director duo named Los Peres. they're they're, represented by biscuit. They're incredible. And it was very close collaboration with those with. It's a married team, husband and wife, very close collaboration with them on on how these things could be brought to life. And they're amazing and they brought a ton to it and they're incredible with, craft and, set design and production design. They were really, really good. And then also practical effects, doing as much in camera as possible and then just sort of, adding detail in post and not making it like a big CGI thing.
Kevin Mulroy (00:18:28) -It was most of it was done very practically, which is important to us. Make it feel real.
Camden Bernatz (00:18:32) - Yeah. Yeah, it looks good. Did they kind of head up, casting as well, or did you have a say in that? Obviously it's there's a very diverse it's it's not traditional boring. Everyone looks the same kind of casting. Right. It's got a wide variety of people. What was the casting process like?
Kevin Mulroy (00:18:47) - That's very, very important to us. You know we write up casting specs about, you know, who the kinds of people were looking for. We want it to be very diverse across all different types of people. orientations, looks all kinds of different things. We, we really want it to be extremely diverse and reflect the, you know, the people that they're talking to, the generation that they're talking to, and in a way that doesn't feel pandering. It's just, you know, it's slice of life of real people. And, the specific age group that is sort of just getting into dating right now.
Kevin Mulroy (00:19:20) - And are not jaded by dating yet. That was a big thing that we wanted to make sure of is we're not sort of saying, like, we didn't want to tap into the cynicism of the dating world because there's a lot of that, and the most of the people that we're talking to are, are, you know, they're just starting their dating, quote unquote careers and they're just sort of like getting into it. And and they're not sort of like jaded on it. And, so we, you know, we wanted to emphasize that with the casting, the brightness, the color of the stories that we're telling and keep it bright and positive.
Camden Bernatz (00:19:52) - Cool. Clearly, clearly, very well targeted to like the younger generation, like you said, without pandering, that can be hard to do. Like, hello, you know, fellow young kids like that, they can they can sniff that stuff out. But just some of like I'm looking again at some of these copy examples, some of the references, someone who gets your FYP, which for those who don't know for you page like for those who are on like TikTok social media, that's easily readable.
Camden Bernatz (00:20:15) - And so the people who would get that reference. Get that who you're trying to reach or someone who passes the friend test things like just kind of pop culture references, things like, you know, the friend tests and things like that. Very good executions in that sense. And so thinking about the copy, having worked on a variety of campaigns myself, I know obviously there's lots of things that get cut for the sake of usage across multiple channels. And then for whatever reason with the client, do you have it do you remember any, different messaging that you maybe like that didn't make the cut? Or is it all just a kind of a blur now?
Kevin Mulroy (00:20:47) - It's a little bit.
Kevin Mulroy (00:20:47) - Of a blur only because we wrote so many of these to get to the I don't know how many we ended up with 35 or something, but I mean, there were hundreds of these, and there are always agency favorites. There are client favorites. And then there's there's like healthy debate about what should go, what should.
Kevin Mulroy (00:21:06) - And a lot of them, you know, sometimes they get too esoteric or too specific or a little bit too Gen Z language. And it does start to feel like the pandering thing we were talking about. So there's a little bit of a fine line, but the most important thing is, again, that they just felt simple and recognizable and translatable across different cultures.
Kevin Mulroy (00:21:25) - Awesome.
Camden Bernatz (00:21:25) - I really like that. Again, about the copy, the hanging out in the daytime, because it kind of just sounds like it kind of sounds random, but it's like without being too on the nose, it is. It is that counter idea that it's only a hiccup in the night after the bar, 2 a.m. it's like it's not even necessarily saying, oh, this means that you're in such and such like a committed relationship, or you're courting in this way. But just like hanging out in the daytime is a that can also start with the swipe. And it's not the typical thing you would think about. And so I like that.
Camden Bernatz (00:21:53) - Just simple. That's not a headline you use any I had never seen. That headline doesn't fit in any other context except this specific message. It makes sense and I like it.
Kevin Mulroy (00:22:03) - I mean, that's like, I thank you for saying that. It's so nice that you notice that because it's to us that's a great example of what we mean by all the different types of relationships. Like for a lot of people, that's a big step. It's like, I don't just want to like, see you at night and hook up. It's like, all right, now let's look for some people that's getting serious. That's the first step of getting serious. Like, I actually want to hang out with you and like, let's not drink. Let's have a coffee. Let's just hang out there in the daytime. So just showing those little, those different sort of shades of types of relationships is fun to explore, you know?
Camden Bernatz (00:22:33) - Yeah.
Camden Bernatz (00:22:34) - You guys did a great job helping it come across as self-aware. Like you're not Tinder but working on behalf of Tinder.
Camden Bernatz (00:22:40) - It's like, yeah, it's I'm kind of repeating what we've already talked about, but it's it's not trying to be saying something that people aren't going to buy. It's like that, that you're trying to force a narrative that doesn't fit who you are. But it is like we're self-aware about some of these things and what dating is like, the pros and the cons and what's. And so we fit into that. It all starts with the swipes. It starts with this way.
Kevin Mulroy (00:22:58) - Yeah.
Kevin Mulroy (00:22:59) - Did you see the first one? We I think the first one we produced was a really dead simple 15-second spot called Two Night Stands. And if you saw that one yes.
Camden Bernatz (00:23:08) - That one's really.
Kevin Mulroy (00:23:09) - Good.
Kevin Mulroy (00:23:09) - It's just like I think yeah, it was kind of the first out of the gate to like, very clearly convey this sort of pointed message, right, that we're going to disrupt the definition of, of a hookup. And so, yeah, basically it's the line is sometimes the Tinder date ends up in a one night stand, and then the scene flips and the, you know, the couple that sort of leaning into kiss, you reveal that they're on a bed, but then you pull out to reveal that they're in a furniture store and the copy concludes.
Kevin Mulroy (00:23:42) - And sometimes it ends with two nightstands, and you reveal that there are a couple now and they're shopping for nightstands, and it's a really dead simple little pun and play on words. But again, it's just going straight out the perception that they want us to change in a way that we felt was visually interesting and would, would grab people.
Camden Bernatz (00:23:58) - I love when language allows for that, when it works like the yeah, double meaning like that. That's well done, I like that. Yeah, I forgot that was one of my favorite ones as well. I should have brought that up sooner, but well, it's a great examples of, of of hitting the the mark in simple ways. This isn't like a two minute anthem to try to retain, like video that's trying to reposition what Tinder is. It's a little 15-second vignettes or one static ad, or a billboard that is just like, and it says enough and gets it across. I like it. So I, I'm assuming I kind of know the answer here, but I want to hear it from you.
Camden Bernatz (00:24:32) - Tinder is not like you said, it's not a brand awareness problem. It wasn't like they were, hey, know knows about us. We need to get X amount of downloads to like stay afloat or avoid bankruptcy. So I'm assuming that while attribution like driving downloads is of course a good thing, I'm assuming it probably wasn't the main priority. Tinder is also something people often like click from an ad they either already have the app or they search it in the app store. Was attribution at all in your mind of making sure we could track downloads from this campaign, or was that just if it happens, great, but we're not going to worry about it?
Kevin Mulroy (00:25:02) - What? You just said it was much more, let's let's focus on changing perception and then have signups be sort of a trickle down effect of changing perception, because, yes, it's still very much top of mind when people think of online dating. It's sort of the first. On. And it's again, it's deeply ingrained in culture. It's, it's in TV shows and movies and all that stuff.
Kevin Mulroy (00:25:22) - So it's not like people were unaware of it. It's just that, you know, people's feelings about the brand had sort of solidified in a negative way. And so that was our job to change that. And then and then once we were able to do a good job of that, it was sort of just driving reconsideration of something that they already were familiar with.
Kevin Mulroy (00:25:40) - Yeah.
Camden Bernatz (00:25:41) - Again, having been someone in the past.
Camden Bernatz (00:25:43) - Who kind of begrudgingly used Tinder because again, in my mind it's the hookup app, and I didn't want people to think I was on the hookup app. I had downloaded it multiple times. I'd have it. I’d delete it for a while, I'd download it like on a lonely weekend and call it like I would. It would be back and forth. So like for me, my conversion of like, if you measured my downloads, I did it like 4 or 5 times before it ended up, you know, I married now don't go back to it. But so yeah, it's even if someone had the app and knew about it, they might have got the app after seeing an ad like this.
Kevin Mulroy (00:26:13) - I gotta tell.
Kevin Mulroy (00:26:13) - You, man, we need you. We could use you for the case study. We could use it.
Camden Bernatz (00:26:16) - That's great. Yeah.
Camden Bernatz (00:26:20) - so I want to bring this up with something I think is a good thing, but it may be. It may be crossing into, like, sensitive waters. I don't know if this was talked about or considered it at all. I compare this to the recent Hinge campaign about, and I should say recent because they've had a few different iterations of this. But Hinge is kind of put themselves positioned as the app, the dating app. It's meant to be deleted. And how it's they're all about relationships that you no longer need the app anymore, at least for the near future. I see this not necessarily as like an intention, I don't know. I don't know if this was in Tinder's mind, or your mind is something as like a response to that, but I've seen some hinge stuff more recently that's been more more. They put more media spend behind this.
Camden Bernatz (00:27:00) - I think this is a really good opportunity or a capturing of an opportunity where where someone else in a similar space dating app is putting out stuff and getting some positive attention. This is putting yourself out there into the conversation, but it's not. It doesn't seem like it's trying to piggyback or kind of say the same thing in a different way. It is a unique message that is owned by Tinder, but it's kind of capitalizing on attention with these other ads about dating. So I don't know if that was something intentional or not, but to me, I think it was a good timing. That Hinge has been advertising more lately, and this came on in the same kind of time as that.
Kevin Mulroy (00:27:36) - Well, certainly.
Kevin Mulroy (00:27:37) - We're familiar with Hinge and and it's a nice line that they have. It's it's a really smart thought. I think that we did approach it almost as a I wouldn't even say we were thinking about Hinge, but I would say that our messaging is maybe a counterpoint to the takeaway from Hinge, which is that the goal of going on dating apps is to find the one true one and then delete it.
Kevin Mulroy (00:28:01) - I think that we're offering a counterpoint, which is there are a million different types of relationships you can have, and it doesn't have to end up being like, it doesn't have to end the way your relationship did when you got married. And that was it. You're done with dating apps, right? It's it's sort of like, we were very intentional about, not necessarily showing relationships that go all the way through to the sort of traditional end. So. Well, you're at the start.
Camden Bernatz (00:28:26) - It starts with the swipe. You figure out where things go, but it can start with Tinder.
Kevin Mulroy (00:28:31) - Yeah, exactly.
Kevin Mulroy (00:28:32) - Like you take it where you want it to go, but we're just we're the inflection point. We're the very start. And so I think I think I've seen more Hinge work lately since we've started the Tinder campaign. I hope that.
Kevin Mulroy (00:28:44) - You guys want to.
Kevin Mulroy (00:28:45) - To us. And then being like, well, shit, we got to step it up, I hope. I don't know.
Camden Bernatz (00:28:50) - But they definitely maybe it was intentional or not.
Camden Bernatz (00:28:53) - I don't know if they're happy looking back or not, but it definitely is kind of a more narrow audience. If they're like they're saying, like, for those who want to get a committed relationship and stop looking, come here. So I guess if that fits your description, you're like, great, that makes sense. But yeah, that what you've done with Tinder here is casting a much wider net. Like no matter what you're looking for, you can. It starts with a swipe on Tinder.
Kevin Mulroy (00:29:15) - I think it's a personally, I think it's a more honest proposal when it comes to online dating. And I think anyone who's ever, who's ever used an app, you know, and, and, and tried it would probably agree that it's, you know, it's not super realistic to say you're going to find the one true one here. It's sort of like you're going to meet a lot of people and try a bunch of different things and try different relationships. To us, it just feels like a slightly more true thought.
Kevin Mulroy (00:29:40) - Although, as I said, it's a really nice line designed to be deleted is a really smart line. So you know, I can't knock them cool.
Camden Bernatz (00:29:47) - Healthy competition helps helps each side. Be creative. That's good. So looking at it back over this work from a high level, what would you say were the main challenges? Was what was the the biggest hurdles to overcome and or was maybe it was just smooth sailing? I don't know, but what were the takeaways of the challenges that you learned from in this experience?
Kevin Mulroy (00:30:03) - I think that the biggest thing was making sure and we talked about this a little bit already. It's like making sure that all the executions and everything that we're saying was, coming from a place of simplicity and clarity, you know, it's sort of. especially you're doing something on this scale, you start thinking, oh, we should go bigger and we should shout it, and we should make it more convoluted. It's really just keeping things dead simple. and focusing on the things that are working and continuing to iterate off of that.
Kevin Mulroy (00:30:32) - I think that, again, we talked about this a little bit too, because it was global finding things that are translatable across languages and different kinds of cultures and, all that because it's not also it's not just, you know, countries in the Western world, it just it had to work everywhere. I mean, those were the big things. I think that, you know, in terms of agency and client relationship, we were all on board with what the goal was and how to get there. And, you know, there's always, always healthy debate on what's the right way to get there. But once we landed on on the truth and the expression of it and the different types of ways that we are going to execute it, it felt like, all right, now we got something, let's go. And then and they saw massive results after the first round. It really is working. And so they sort of, you know, doubled down and wanted to do more of it. And that's always a good thing.
Kevin Mulroy (00:31:20) - Like they're seeing the numbers. So that's great.
Camden Bernatz (00:31:22) - Yeah.
Camden Bernatz (00:31:22) - Well like I said before it's got.
Camden Bernatz (00:31:24) - It has it.
Camden Bernatz (00:31:25) - The simplicity can be used in so many different ways that it's not going to get stale right away. Like maybe you have some really a one-off video that people love or one little headline that's super resonate. But you can't just keep slapping on everywhere you get. People get tired of it. This is something that the line can be, you know, it all ties up with the touch of the swipe, but the different examples, the different people being featured, the different situations, the play on words, the all that stuff can keep it fresh for a while. And so yeah, well done. I, I definitely had seen it not only just in the, in the wild as advertising, but people talking about it, you know, on LinkedIn or reacting to it and stuff in the industry. So I'm one of those people now talking about and grateful to have you on the podcast.
Camden Bernatz (00:32:04) - This has been this has been great. Any other just kind of general takeaways, anything for those who maybe were coming up in the industry, any lessons or things that they maybe should learn from this? And I know I'm putting you on the spot for your wisdom here now, but just.
Camden Bernatz (00:32:16) - Any, any.
Camden Bernatz (00:32:17) - Any final takeaways from this work?
Kevin Mulroy (00:32:19) - Let's see, I don't know if, I mean, I think that again, it was it took a little while to get to a platform that was really simple and clean and, and, translatable and all those things we talked about. And I think, it was important for us all to be sort of resilient, you know, it's like we would come up with something we thought was great, and then we'd be like, all right, maybe this isn't going to work. Or, you know, our client would have thoughts about how to do something. You'd be like, all right, maybe that's not going to work. So I think just coming back again and again and again and again with, you know, a new way at it is probably the best way.
Kevin Mulroy (00:32:52) - Best takeaway for creatives coming up. And I think, you know, working really closely with strategy and making sure that the messaging is exactly what it needs to be is something that I would encourage more agencies to be open to just, as opposed to keeping things siloed between strategy and creative. You know, everybody working in lockstep toward the same goal is how you unlock this stuff, how you, you know, how you get to these, really simple, smart thoughts. So, I mean, those are probably be the big takeaways from this one.
Camden Bernatz (00:33:24) - Awesome, I like it. Thank you.
Camden Bernatz (00:33:26) - Very much. Again, for those who have maybe forgotten or who are, coming back to the podcast after a break, this is, my guest today is Kevin Mulroy, partner Executive Creative Director at Mischief USA. Kevin, for those who want to keep in touch with you, with what you're up to or or perhaps get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to to follow you or contact you?
Kevin Mulroy (00:33:44) - Honestly, LinkedIn is the best one.
Kevin Mulroy (00:33:46) - I don't do tons. Most of my socials are still like pretty personal. I don't really do a lot of that. And I and I'm like, I'm not a big Twitter guy anymore or whatever he's called. So I think LinkedIn is probably the best way to find me.
Kevin Mulroy (00:34:00) - Cool.
Camden Bernatz (00:34:01) - Awesome. Well, I'll definitely stay in.
Camden Bernatz (00:34:02) - Touch and keep up with what you're doing. And I this has been this has been a great conversation and I, I like I like, clearly that the nature of our podcast is we want to get the people and stories behind clever marketing moves. What we say, and this is really clever. There's some things that maybe they worked on paper and did a good job and they made money, whatever. But it's just not that exciting. This one is obviously not only just good successfully, but it's fun, it's clever, it's good. So definitely the kind of thing we want to have on the show. I appreciate your time today. And for those who are listening to the podcast, if you haven't subscribed yet, hurry and get on board.
Camden Bernatz (00:34:33) - Do you want to miss out on upcoming stories and different behind-the-scenes, scoops on work like this? So subscribe. We're all over Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Audioboom, wherever you listen to podcasts, pretty much. And thank you for listening today, and we'll be back with more content soon. Thanks.
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