Bennett Maxwell (00:00.206) Thank you.

All right. I need to start that again. Welcome to another episode of the Deeper Than No podcast. I'm super excited to have Matt Thomas on the podcast. What's up, Matt? What up, dude? How are you? Dude, I'm at we we we already have been talking for 15 minutes. I'm like, let's let's pause, hit the breaks here. Yeah. Get it on the show, Matt. And so Matt's background, I'll let you give your own background. But we talk, man, I feel like every week just venting and supporting each other and how shitty.

Business is at times but also how great it can be on who owns cookie Co and I'll be Sam with dirty dough So but Matt get it to you a little bit before the cookie code ace. Yeah, bro So it's funny cuz a lot of times you'll call me and you'll be telling me something going on I'm like, did you just read my text messages? Like I'm like sometimes I store you a parallel in my some of my things that I'm going through So no, but yes, my background somebody here's dude. I started a

And door -to -door sales, I did home automation. I did, back in the day, Penal Code Security. I started selling alarm systems door -to -door. Tucson, Arizona was my first summer back in 2009. And did that for a number of years through college and then transitioned into solar. Did solar for a number of years. I tried to get out of the door -to -door, wasn't getting a real job. And that real job was working for somebody who didn't know anything about business or life or management. And I was making less money than I was in a summer of sales. Wait.

Where did you start working? I worked for Verizon Wireless on the corporate side. I actually worked as an accounting executive, so I did enterprise level sales. And it was just a grind, dude. And it was not enjoyable. It was just tedious. You had a quota. You had, the shareholders want us. And I'm like, ugh, it was so gross. So not me, bro. So I'm very much anti -authority. That's the system, right? So it was just like, I can't, dude. There's undying. Literally, I was one week away from hitting my one.

Bennett Maxwell (01:56.654) and they were like, hey, we're gonna send you to Irvine, we want to give you the management program because you've been leading the region for sales, we want you to help manage. And it was like a week until my one year anniversary with the company and I went to lunch with my buddy, my buddy Nate, he actually tells the story, whenever we go to dinner, people was like, bro, I got the best quick story ever, right? He tells the story of the day that I quit, because I went to lunch and I was like, I think I'm gonna quit today. They're like, what? And I'm like, yeah, I'm done. So go back.

And I basically go and tell Ashley, I said, hey, Ashley shouldn't sit in, but I told my manager, I said, hey, like, today's my last day, I'm done. What are you gonna do? I was like, my family's gonna go sell solar. I hate this, this is not for me. Went into solar for a number of years and it was awesome, I loved it. It was a really, really cool experience. And then I got into branding. My background, my degree was in marketing and branding and that's kind of what I always enjoyed, that creative flow, I love that. So I started with a couple of guys, they had already started a company.

and they brought me on to help with branding and business development. And I did that for a while, it's about four years, until COVID happened and it just destroyed our business. And it was like, we're gonna try to get through this, but we don't know. And when branding and marketing goes, because consumerism dies, like the business supply chain revenue just dried up. And my wife and I had just signed a lease in October of 2019 on our building that I'm in now to open up our first cookie store. The goal is to be open in March, April of 2020.

like everything else, California especially, things shut down. So we pivoted and literally started selling cookies from our garage on Instagram from like April until July, March until July. Yeah bro, so we, my wife had a decent little following on social media, like 20 or 30 ,000 people on IG and she's like, I'm gonna just try to do this on Instagram until we get our store open because we need money. Like I lost my job, you know, and it was a startup company so my pay wasn't consistent, it wasn't great.

So what I did have disappeared and it was like, we've got to do something, right? So I was trying to do some consultant for a few companies that reached out to me and we started just doing cookies. And so she put on her Instagram and she was told like 18 or 19 boxes their first week, you know, 15 bucks a box. And I was like, cool. You know, and the next week it was 30, then 30 stuff and then 50. Delivery or is this like? No, so we set up like a Costco table. We'd write your name on the box and you'd come to our house and our neighbors thought we were like a trap house, dude. They thought we were like,

Bennett Maxwell (04:20.814) selling drugs because we had cars pop up, walk into our garage, grab their box, take off. It got to the point where we do about 300 boxes a week the month before we open our doors. Then we took a break for about three weeks before we opened, cut to the grand opening. Looking back on it, dude, those were such simple times. Going to Restaurant Depot with my truck and putting a thousand pounds of flour and 800 pounds of brown sugar and powdered sugar in the back of my truck like this. It was crazy.

that we were able to do that. And it got to the point where I said, we're doing 300 boxes of cookies a week from our house. And my wife, just a little regular home residential oven. The thing burnt out twice. We had to pay the maintenance, got to come fix it because we're using it 14, 15 hours a day. And so it was just, it was crazy. So dirty dough was actually very similar in that it started in a

college. So when I invested, because I initially invested, this dude Tyler went to high school with him. He's my little brother's friend. He told me he was in a commercial kitchen. I invest. A few months later, I go down to check it out. He's in his apartment. They're like ASU like shitty apartment. I go in there and I like open up the oven. It's like, I was like, bro, where's your commercial kitchen? He said, did I tell you we had a commercial kitchen? I told you, you're going to get one.

yeah, right. And that's what we did. And then we also opened up in March of 2020, the first storefront. Yeah. Wednesday was like COVID shutdowns and this grand opening. So when did you guys actually end up opening? You said in June? August. We opened from March until July and then we opened like August 13th, 2020. Was that really good to kind of, I guess, test it out?

Yeah, I mean it was good because we had a decent, we had a loyal following, you know, in our community. And so we had some really good support when we opened up and it was basically like...

Bennett Maxwell (06:36.974) yet we're rewinding 10 seconds. I think maybe if you're, are you on your phone? Yeah. Was it call coming through? Yeah. Let me put on do not disturb real fast.

Bennett Maxwell (06:51.182) Okay, don't strip them. No, so we were, like I said, we opened up our doors and the goal was to just like try to survive the pandemic and luckily, those three, four months of doing it from our garage, we had built up a decent little support group in our community. You know, we had regulars throughout the week who would come every week. It was COVID shutdowns. It was like something for people to do, you know? So looking back on it, it was kind of like a great way to build your business is if you...

during the pandemic started doing stuff online or from home. Restaurants were shut down. People didn't have anywhere to go. People were working from home. This was something they enjoyed doing. So we finally opened our doors. We set a couple of helm areas and like, all right, let's try this business brick and mortar thing. And we opened and had a line around the block for the first three, four weeks we opened. Things were awesome. So yeah, it was wild. Made the cookie world, man. That is fun to kind of

When I bought Dirty Toast while I was in San Marcos, California, within a month, I had never even really been doing any cookies. I was like, I want to do a commercial picture and we just opened up. Yeah, it was running down to the restaurant, Vico, and just like scrambling like a mad man. You know, there's no process or nothing. But even then, it's like, wow, that was a lot more simple than what the hell I'm doing right now. Because at least I was there and I figured it out. And I'm just like, open it up.

The thing I actually just did like an Instagram story this morning and it was basically like, you know, the things that business owners never talk about. And it's like, rarely do people talk about the difficulties of being a business owner because people don't want to be vulnerable, right? So they like have this like facade of like, my life's awesome, I own a business, I'm successful. But also that's like what people think that, you own a business, you must be killing it. It's like, dude, I literally am just trying to get three hours of sleep a night that I'm not talking and turning and trying to solve all the world's problems, right? Like,

Being a business owner is very rewarding, but it's also very challenging, right? And the victories are short lived. Like by the time that you got a good email or a text or a phone call, that was awesome. You're like, great. And then you have sick things that you got sick fire you got to put out. Right. And I mean, there's pros and cons, you know, but there's so many more pros, I think, than cons. Unfortunately, the cons take more of your time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, being in Utah and Dirty Dog has a decent brand now.

Bennett Maxwell (09:19.054) you must be crushing it. I'm like, depending on how you measure crushing it, if we're open source, sure, but like, do I have a bajillion dollars in the bank? And am I sleeping good at night? No. So like, you have no idea. You know, people just have no idea. And it's just the outward. And I'm like, and then it makes me think how many businesses do I think, these guys have it perfect. And I'm like, I just have no idea. You know, when I was in Turkey doing this transplant, dude,

It's that boy. I was like, there's Syrian refugees everywhere. Like I was showing my wife pictures actually just last night and it, you know, your picture, your phone, it shows you the time. 4 30 a 3 30 a 5 o 'clock at 5 a I was out the whole night. This was on a Tuesday night. There's kids everywhere. And it was just like taking the stores so they could buy some food. And they all just sit there, you know, and they're like that. And.

I'm trying to talk with them, I don't speak their language, they don't speak my language, they don't speak the local language. And then it hit me, I'm just like, you're looking at like an American tourist, like, we have all this money just handing out. And then I go back to my hotel that night and I'm like, I'm literally doing the same thing. I go back to the United States and then I hand out my money to banks, or I hand out my hand to banks and to investors and to private equity and just like, they give me money.

I'm begging for money. It's just a different scale, but we're all just looking to the next person above us and saying, hey, how'd we do? It was kind of a weird thing. You're begging for money. Yeah, those kids look at you as an American thing. You've got it made. In their definition, that's as good as it gets. We're blessed to live in this country. We're blessed. I'm not comparing us to anything like that. But I do think it's...

It's all about perspectives, right? Like if you look at banks, you look at investors and it's really, everybody's looking for a handout. Everyone's looking for a handout, right? And it's needed. I think 2023 by all means, every business owner that I talk to, whether it be another competitor, people who own crumbles, people who own other concepts, friends of mine who own fairly large businesses,

Bennett Maxwell (11:41.998) They're like, dude, 2023 was a very difficult year. You know, like one of my buddies, he is the president of a bank credit union. I think they have 30 or 34 locations, south of Southwest. And he's like, dude, last year was one of the most difficult years in banking since the 08 recession, but nobody's talking about it. Like, our sister rep said, he's been there for a decade or something, he said that we've never had this many companies he passed through. Yeah, my rep told me the same thing. He said that we,

It's been a long time since we had this many accounts shut down. Because businessmen were going under. Nobody is talking about. I've been looking kind of into the... I don't know, there's probably a YouTube page or something. It's like how the economy or the world, whatever, goes through cycles. Every 20 years, you know, you have a good economy and then it kind of slows down and it's a bad economy that speeds back up. And it's like, we're in that bad economy. And they said looking at the...

the hell is it? The top 500, the heat 500, like 70 % of those companies are founded during the hard times. Because if you can make it during the hard times, you can make it during the good times. During the good times, you're kind of bad and happy and you don't grow lean, which honestly is the mistake that I made with 30D <|la|> <|translate|> <|notimestamps|> because we were selling some freaking franchises. It's like, we have unlimited money. That's like, I was dumb. We grew in the happy times first year and then the economy started to take me and tighten me.

Anyway, I just thought that was very interesting. I do think that we are in an economic downturn. Take it through this, we're pretty well set up. Yeah, and I think for me, talking to other business owners, franchisees from other brands, even franchisees in my brand, that opened or they're going through these last three to six months and they're like, this is a lot harder than I thought. I'm like, it is, but it isn't always this way. Like you said, you've got...

You know, you've got good times and bad times in business. And due to the economy, I've looked at a few things and it says about every eight to 12 years, America has a recession of some kind or inflation. We had it during the dot com boom, then we had an 08, then we had about 11 or 12 years and things don't really well, then 1920 hit, 2019, 2020 hit, had a pandemic that changed things. And then we got through that and here we are at 2023. Kind of consequent of COVID, right? Inflation and all that stuff and everything else. But...

Bennett Maxwell (14:08.462) But yeah, I mean, I think about every 10 to 12 years, realistically, looking back to the last 50, 60 years, you know, every decade and a half, we have something like this, you know, and it's easier said than done to get through this, right? Because when you're in it, you're like, this is as bad as it gets, it's terrible. And you just feel like your walls are closing in on you all the time, right? But it's, you're thinking the small picture. You're thinking like about today and making payroll next month versus what's the five -year plan, what's the strategy, right? And I think I always remind myself of like,

We've all read Shoe Dog, we've read the book on Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, we've all read these books. The first 25 chapters of every one of these books is like, I was literally eating shit sandwiches and praying to make payroll, right? And then - And then you think you're a nice success. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that's the thing I think with social media is people see the good things on social media. So they expect, you were successful, things look easy, I wanna be that. And then they try to become business owners of like -

I can't even afford to register my LLC. How did you do this? You're like, well, look, it takes time. It takes, find a mentor, right? And frost your fingers and literally have your back against the wall most of the time. You know, people don't show that side as much on Instagram or social media, but I think that I've learned more in my life from difficult times and struggle than I ever did during good times, right? Like Joe Rogan says this quote that I actually love. He says, I'd rather be a gardener in a.

a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war. And that soft times make soft men, hard times make hard men. And I think a business that can be transitioned into that phrase as well, the best business owners have gone through economic turmoil, have they corrupted or come close to it or been completely broke, but they continue to endure and persevere and overcome. And I think for me in the last four and a half years of running Cookie Ho with my wife,

I feel like I've learned the most during the most difficult times. You know? I think everybody generally will just like, nail the root. When did you grow the most? It was, and then you're in, but when you're in the shitty time, you're just like, I can't wait to get out of it. I want a brilliant, I want some space. So it is good to like, hey, four or five years, how am I going to do my life? You know, doing some of those kind of mental activities. Is there anything that you do?

Bennett Maxwell (16:30.926) on the on the mental health side or the mindset side on like being proactive on how do you not be crushed by the way you do business? What do you do? Yeah, so yeah, I do. And I don't want to.

Bennett Maxwell (16:52.91) I guess what I'll say is, what I do is I remind myself constantly, like, hey, you've been through this before. Like remind myself, like, hey, don't think about today, focus on the growth side of it, right? And just remind yourself, reminding myself, like when I, like for example, like most of my life I went, I didn't realize what it was. I just thought like, this is normal, everybody feels this way. But like I started with like depression, anxiety, and ADD like my totalize. And I wasn't diagnosed until I was married in college. I was.

is my junior year of college and I found it was like, I'm gonna talk to a counselor. This feels off. I started hearing people taking Adderall for ADD and for focusing. I'm like, wait, you have a hard time focusing too, okay. So I guess I'm not alone, right? There's other people who feel this way. So I go and talk to a counselor and he's like, hey, you have depression and ADD. And I'm like, all right, so what do I do? And they gave me some medication. They just gave me Adderall. I took it for about a month and I hate how I feel. I feel like a different person. So I, for the past, like,

15, 16 years now, I guess, I've been trying to figure out how to utilize these things as almost like a superpower, to be honest, how to use ADD. And I saw this guy who did this research, and he said it's not attention deficit disorder ADD. He said it's not a deficit. He said it should be called attention displacement disorder because if you find something that you're passionate about, you can be hyper -focused. And I think that's for entrepreneurs who struggle with ADD.

Look at it that way, like you have attention displacement disorder. Put me in a classroom and teach me biology, I'm gonna struggle. I'm gonna have a hard time sitting there listening to your lecture. But put me in a classroom that allows group breakout sessions, discussing business practices, I could leave that group and be stoked and be super successful there, right? And so I've been consciously trying to figure out how to utilize that as a superpower and also on the depression anxiety side, you know, like one of the things I've tried to focus on is like,

Depression comes from focusing on the past, anxiety comes about worrying about the future or the unknowns, right? And just remind myself, be in the present. Don't focus on the past, don't focus on the future. Be in the present, be mindful and work towards the future. And just remind myself, you're not alone. Millions of people have done this, millions of people go through this, this too shall pass, right? Because it is very easy to focus on the current state, the current situation, right? Rather than what's the plan for next week, let alone five -year plan, you know? So...

Bennett Maxwell (19:16.206) That's really what I remind myself often on that, you know, like just two shall pass. Yeah. I mean, changing the perspective, like going again, I was kind of relating that somebody on the street begging for money. That's all the hell all of us do. We're just asking other people for money. It's obviously a different skill and also just, I mean, kind of sitting back and your life, my life or anybody's life, most people's life in the United States, like you get, you can get a billion people that are live today and it's

they had your life, they would consider their prayers answered. And you look at it like that and you're like, well then why the hell am I bitching? You know, like, I have everything in the world that this other person wants. Why is it not enough for me? You know, those little activities of the perspective chain, I think, I think are awesome. A little bit. I think you and I have a very unique relationship. We talk super often. We're direct competitors.

And it's like, this is my box pricing. This is my lender. This is UI. I'm the advisory contracts. We share everything and not once have I felt like, is this not going to be good for my business? You know, it's been so positive one to have somebody there that listens to me, bitch. And then to one that understands me and that's going through something similar. And then also that we could help each other on the business side. And it's not like.

There's no way it's taken revenue from one of my stores and give it to your stores or vice versa, right? It's pretty uncommon that direct competitors are chatting all the time about the intricacies of business and swapping the contents. Anyways, how did you get to that mindset? I'd love to hear a little bit about that. I think that's a really, really valuable point because I look at it this way. I've always been on the mindset. I don't have a scarcity mindset.

there's enough to go around for everybody. I look at it in the way of like, if I can work with, I can go and get advice from other people, right? I can go get advice from other business owners who own different concepts and things like that, but I'm talking with you, I think we got connected because you were gonna get, it was the first thing that was trouble with two of you guys, right? And I was like, hey dude, I went through this, try this through me before we even opened our store.

Bennett Maxwell (21:39.246) They had all these crazy requests and demands and knock on wood, it passed about four years ago we got through it and it was simple, but it was scary. Back to the perspective, we thought we were screwed at that point. We're like, dude, Goliath is coming after us and we literally just opened up our doors three months ago. Like, holy crap. A, somewhat feeling a little bit validated, like, they know who we are. Wow, cool. But then also feeling very threatened.

Talk to you during that time and I think, like you said, there's something to be sad about working with a competitor, right? Or communicating with your competitor and finding ways to build each other up. Because if your store does $10 ,000 in a day, it doesn't take away from my store. If you sell 150 franchises this month, there's 400 million people in this country. If you are successful, that doesn't take away, somebody else's success doesn't take away from mine, right?

Like some people like get like negative like, this guy's got a Lamborghini F that guy. Like, just be happy for him. You don't know what he did to get that for one and for two, like because he has that, there's, there's a bunch more, it's a lot. If you want one, you can get one. Like somebody else's success doesn't take away from yours, right? Unless we're playing a football game and there's only one trophy to be handed out, right? That's different. In business, it's like we can all be successful. We can all kill it and win, right? And.

The more people that win, the better off we all are, right? I truly believe that. And so yeah, I definitely not a scarcity mindset. I'm not afraid of what competitors are doing. You know, if anything, I feel motivated by watching you grow. Like you've been, when you guys were killing it, selling a million franchises, I was like, dude, that is freaking awesome. Like why am I stuck in this spot selling this many? How do I get there, right? It'd be really good to be like, Matt's a question on this. This is a great idea. And then you know what's possible.

also in the same circumstances that you're in. Yeah. Mrs. Phil's did this 40 years ago. It's Matt's doing it now. I totally got the job. Yeah. I really appreciated that about you and I really enjoyed our relationship because it's been so open and man, it's been great just to be with somebody else that knows what I'm going through, you know, in the same industry. Well, if anything, dude, I would encourage.

Bennett Maxwell (24:01.422) business owners to reach out to their competitors and try to create a relationship. Because like I said, if you own a solar company, odds are a guy who owns the bank or a contractor or somebody, he may have similar stresses, but very, very different actual issues that you're facing, right? So it's like odds are, and I truly believe in being vulnerable because you're never the only one feeling this way. You're never the only one going through this or the last time through this. So like.

Reaching out to a competitor and be like, hey dude, Denon, I want to reach out to you. My name's Matt, I'm the founder of Cookie Co. Just want to introduce myself and I see what you guys are doing, really admire what you're doing. I'm not sure what you guys are, your five year planners or what some of your struggles are, but we've got a lot of things I'm trying to work through right now. Would you be open to grabbing coffee or grabbing lunch? Just as a friend, I just want to chat with you and kind of see what you're doing and what's working for you. I don't want to do recipes, I'm not trying to get anything from you, but just looking at like.

Who's your manufacturer for boxes who does your basis who use them for distribution? we were using us food. We just switched at Cisco. We kind of pricing Okay, right like those things like me getting a better margin from Cisco because you're using them for me using your food thing Me saving my own life doesn't take away from you like I think that's the big thing is people don't that they see the win lose when it's like no one when the economy

I just had this conversation maybe two days ago. Somebody was talking about a very wealthy church building all these buildings in a sense. Man, how much money went into that when it could have gone to something else. It's like, that's one way to look at it. Or you can look at how many legitimately millions of jobs were created to go build all of these different things. It was like a conversation on religion should be taxes. None of that really mattered. But it's like, well, look at all the jobs that were created. How many people could now feed their families because they made these buildings for people to worship, whether it's

believe in that police or not it did uplift the entire economy and last year you know I saw the Gillian memes on how Taylor Swift's concert was keeping the economy afloat but it's like that's cool like she generated a billion plus in revenue on it or or multi multiple billion dollars rather than like do we need entertainment it's like yeah like look what it did how many jobs that create and it is if you sell more cookies or jobs are created if we sell more

Bennett Maxwell (26:24.59) because these more jobs are created, it doesn't mean that we're taking from each other. That's just a different mindset that we're typically on. Well, let me ask you this. So we have franchisees who ask us, like, hey, like, are you concerned about the market? Are you concerned about the market being saturated, right? And I'm like, no, I'm not. I actually want the market to be saturated. They're like, why would you want there to be more key shops? I'm like, A, it proves the demand, right? It proves the demand. B,

If Crumble and Dirty Dough and all these other brands are spending millions of dollars on commercials and advertising and marketing, it's the last consumer education that I have to spend money on. I have to spend less on marketing if my other competitors are doing it. There's a reason why Burger King always builds around the corner from McDonald's. Because McDonald's is going to spend millions of dollars to get them to come to that corner. And when they get to that corner, they're like, ooh, there's a Burger King here. I'm going to try them too.

I just saw one of their ads, or I just haven't been there in a long time. Let me try them, right? Or the line is long in McDonald's, I'll go there, right? Like, it's kind of that same mindset of like, you know, don't worry about what your competitor is doing. Find ways to benefit from what your competitor is doing. Find ways to create relationships with your competitors. Like, dude, to be honest, if I'm, if I'm Trumble, I'm putting together a conference and I'm hosting a conference to collaborate with.

not just people in the cookie space, but now they're into cinnamon rolls and doing Hot Pockets and things like that, right? Like I'm doing a conference for QSR development. Nobody's doing that. Like it doesn't exist. Like I'd love to go to a conference hosted by arguably one of the most successful quick service restaurant or quick service retail businesses or brands ever, right? Being trouble. There's a fast to get where they are. Like they say what you want about the product or about what they do and suing people, all that stuff, like whatever.

But you have to respect what they've done in the seven or eight years they've done it. They're the best of all time. They are truly the... I mean, everyone's like, Chick -fil -A is better. They are, but Chick -fil -A almost went bankrupt and you could only find them in food courts and malls going out of business for decades. They've been doing this for 25, 30 years now. Crumble's been doing it for eight. Crumble is... They're an amazing company. Now, I will argue...

Bennett Maxwell (28:48.302) that they're a marketing agency pushing a product. And I said for years, if they change their product, their numbers won't change. They can go from doing cookies, I said, they can go from cookies to churros, and the numbers will, because they've got a lower falling than out of market, right? Now with us, I say, we're not a marketing agency, we're a bakery that needs to do more marketing, right? And they're a marketing agency that should do more baking, but whatever, right? So no, dude, I mean, I'm a big proponent and a big believer in all that. I think competition is...

because you can learn a lot from your competitors, but also, I mean, you can add value and actually see success in working with your competitors directly. You know? And we've had, I mean, you and I with other owners of other desert concepts, talking marketing and anyways, it is, most people do accept that cold email or cold LinkedIn message to say, hey, do you want to link up? Just to link up. Because they're also kind of, you know, they're in the same spot. You know, they're that it's,

going good, but they think that it could go better and it's a little bit slower and this and that. It's like, we all know we need help. So to reach out, people accept that and they're like, heck yeah. I understand. Successful. You're like, Hey man, I'm figuring this out with you brother. Yeah. And to be honest, sometimes it may just be a matter of they don't feel comfortable sharing that, but if you say, Hey, I'm going through this. my gosh. Thank you so much for saying that, bro. I'm, I, I'm facing the exact same thing. Or I hate you know what?

I went through that, this is what I found. Good luck. Is there anything I can help you with? Like what are you struggling with? Like right now it's funding. We're trying to get some funding. Hey, talk to so and so, right? Sentence up to capital. They're a great resource. They helped me out. Talk to them. Right. Okay. And it's almost the first time, I'll be honest, like when you and I first started talking, I'm like, can I trust this guy? Is he gonna steal like, is he giving me crap information to try to destroy my business? Right. But then it was like.

You being successful and seeing me be successful, we're in different markets, we're in different places, right? It doesn't take away. Someone's success doesn't take away from yours and prevent you from being successful. There's an Apple and a Google, there's an Amazon and an Alibaba, they're all billion dollar enterprises. And it's like, dude, if they work together, they work against each other, or there's an &A that takes place, right? Look at the PGA and Liv.

Bennett Maxwell (31:11.982) Right? They were working against each other and direct enemies, lawsuits go over and now they're merging. Right? So it's like working with your competitors. It's a lot of benefits that come from that. It's I think it's rare, but it shouldn't be, to be honest. And anyways, again, I appreciate that about you. And you've always been super easy to talk with. And it's and it's awesome to be like, yeah, I know the owner could kill these freaking awesome. We talk all the time. Really? I've had a franchisee. We're talking about Dirty Dough as well. And I'm like,

Dude, Bennett's awesome. Like, you know Bennett? I just got off the phone with him. They're like, wow. They're great. We're different. We're definitely different products. We're both in a cookie space. It's like comparing McDonald's to Burger King or, you know, Deltof or Taco Bell. We're similar. We both do the same thing, but we do it differently. And they're both great, you know? So. That builds a lot more trust and respect. For sure. Not possibly about a competitor rather than just trying to shit on them. Absolutely. Because you know,

You know that your competitors always have a positive. So if you don't ignore it, right? And they're like, that's great. Here's the difference is you choose. And I, you know. Bro, I actually had a franchisee who was telling me they were talking to you. They wanted, I won't say her name, but it was her and her sister and her dad. They were doing this, so they wanted to do New York. I actually told them they're better shit for you. really? I swear. Yeah. Because they did not want to do any kind of bacon, or sorry, any kind of like.

Recipes and mixing they want a more easy not easy, but a anymore streamlined system. I say hey we bake fresh daily, right? We bake them in -house. We mix we do that all right We like them because you know, they ship us everything and it's ready to just be put in the oven And I'm like if that's what you're going for like we're not the right fit Yeah, and it's not a matter of who's a better product It's because very rarely new franchisees are they looking like I want to be the most passionate about my products It's like no how much money can I make and this is what I'm looking at?

Right? So I'm like, dirty does a better option. I don't know if they moved on with you, but they definitely said thank you. And I didn't talk to them again after that. Right? Maybe they thought it was crazy, but I don't, I don't, I have no idea. We're not registered in New York. I think that's the only state we're still not registered. you're not. No. They recorded all these audited financials and what? We got registered in New York. We're just there for the second time now, but it's a process for sure. That's the one state that we decided to hold off on.

Bennett Maxwell (33:40.366) And I think we're going to this year maybe not. But anyways, Matt, last question for you. Before we wrap up, what is the legacy you want to leave behind? How do you want to be remembered?

Man, that's a tough question dude. Because it's something that I'm passionate about. I want to be known. I tell people like, you know, on my headstone, you won't see it. And nobody's headstone. I'll tell you all the time. Go to the graveyard and look at people's gravestones and look how many of them show people's band counts and what kind of cars they drove. None of that information matters. It says one of two things. Loving husband, loving mother, loving father, loving wife, etc.

For me, I want my latest to be known that I was loyal to the relationships in my life, that I took chances and that I built something, right? And being, I built in something doesn't mean that I ever finished something. It doesn't mean that I did anything. I want to be known for basically being a loyal friend, a loyal husband, a loyal father.

be a hard worker and try to provide opportunities for myself and other people. That's why I got into franchising. To be honest, with franchising, my wife and I had this and I was like, dude, we're doing really well. My family is very much a blue collar. It'd be pretty cool to be able to provide this opportunity for other families in different parts of the country. And then we have people we're young to. That was something I was really excited about. So my big thing is I just wanna be known for being...

loyal to the relationships in my life. I guess that's the brilliant number one thing I care about most, to be honest. I love the fact that I'm here with you and brand raising is a really good way to serve other people. It is. It is. I appreciate you being on, man. Yeah, dude. Appreciate you, bro. And I'll throw it, I'll ask you, well, what's the best way to connect with you as far as social media? Just Instagram. Just my IG is the easiest, to be honest. It's just the real Matt GT. Just send me a DM or whatever.

Bennett Maxwell (35:46.734) I love connecting with people. I just started doing this mentor group with about, I cut it off at 25 people. I had 25 people say they want to do it. It's free, but I'm thinking about doing a couple more. But yeah, just send me a DM. I'm always happy to connect. Love networking. Okay. Awesome, Matt. Appreciate it. Thank you. Bye, bro. Later.