EWB 5.15 V1 nick: [00:00:00] Welcome to eyewitness beauty, the podcast where we talk about the biggest stories in the beauty industry each week. I'm Nick Axelrod Welk joined by Diamond Annie Kriegbaum. I'm live from New York. Annie: Hey cutie. I am in New York. You're not. nick: Yes. No, I'm in LA and we were just talking about how we're not going anywhere this summer. So don't even ask us what our plans are. Here's my question for you. We're not going to go hard. Let's not go hard on billionaires today. They've had they've taken it, they've taken it on the chin and, you know, we're going to avoid them this episode, Annie: What was the most offensive billionaire comment we had lately? I thought last episode we were pretty celebratory of [00:01:00] nick: true. Hold on. I, last night I couldn't, I was watching all the Benny Blanco clips. On AD's TikTok. And? And I was just feeling worse and worse about getting a pass. Annie: About getting a pass? nick: Because of it, like, about like for coverage. Annie: Wait, is that a newspaper too? Um, nick: because like when I, yeah, like when someone passes. Oh, Annie: oh, oh, okay. I totally miss, I, yes, I forgot about that. Well, fuck them. nick: I just have to, I just want you to hear it. Annie: I, cause I thought you, I, phone: Ready? My favorite areas. This is one of my favorite areas. I stay in this pool for minimum six hours. There's one small thing about this room. My friend Scott and I started putting together a garden. Is that his? A lot of you might not know this, but depending on Annie: Why does he talk like a celebrity mom? [00:02:00] Music: I nick: don't know. But I just was like, like listening to these like videos. I'm like, this is my favorite room because it has a pink chandelier and I only eat pink foods in it. And I'm like, Annie: I'm going to need a minute for that to sink in. I was not expecting that. nick: What did you think his voice was like? He's a producer. He's not a recording artist. Annie: Well, yeah, I didn't know what his job was, but I figured with how he looks, he would have a very deep, like, sexy vibe in every other way. To balance out nick: I mean, obviously you You don't date Annie: a guy like that if he talks like that. Okay, and you're making it You're gonna make See, now I'm gonna not be able to sleep. Because I did. I thought we were too. I nick: know because of that sound of that voice, like as you're falling asleep, it's going to be like, and then like, I got this thing because Annie: that is my wake up alarm.[00:03:00] nick: Good morning, Andy. Annie: Jim Carrey today. I love it. I felt bad. I thought we went too far. Too hard on many Blanco in the last episode, but now it's clear that we didn't nick: know that now you're going in Annie: because I felt like I've definitely said about Selena Gomez in the past. I don't like how she you know, frames her whole brand as being nick: mental health about Annie: mental health and positivity and and then she's like completely unhinged on social media. And I was like, who? No, we've all seen it. And then I was like, who am I to talk? I am over here with this huge platform, just bullying this guy relentlessly that I've never met. I don't, I know, I've never even heard his voice. nick: No, I love him to death. I would literally take a bullet for Benny Bronco. Annie: I would too. I would too. I think that that's any celebrity. nick: Any celebrity that I've ever talked [00:04:00] about, I would die for, Annie: easily. That's the trade off. They can harvest nick: my organs and sprinkle them across all these celebrities. Okay, Annie: that's how we Harry Styles. Yes. nick: Benny Blanco. Barbra Annie: Sturm. I think we're gonna throw Barbra nick: Sturm. Beauty Annie: counter. Nick, I think that nick: Oh, Greg at Beauty Counter, you're right. All the people who I've wronged. That's the trade off. I don't like where this is going. Anyway, should we get into top stories? Okay. Haley Bieber, AKA. Haley Baldwin. Annie: Ms. Road. nick: A. K. A. Haley Road Baldwin, announced last week, I think it, she announced it before we recorded her last week's episode, but we somehow missed it. No. She's pregnant. It was after, Annie: we would have talked about nick: it. So that's one thing. She's pregnant. My other thing that I feel like this involves somehow, psychically, energetically, is Bella Hadid going on the Drew Barrymore show to talk about [00:05:00] Orabela. Did you watch that interview? Annie: I can't. I can't. I can't do more than like three second clips of Drew Barrymore. On her, on her talk show. nick: I thought I liked it And then I like, I started watching this side of TikTok that was all about how like Drew Barrymore's performative behavior, like how it's this like faux, she gets too close to you. She gets in your personal space. She like demands this intimacy. Annie: Oh, look who it is. Oh, it's a perfect angel. nick: that's Annie. Music: Okay. She doesn't hear me. nick: Say hello. Hello. Say this is Eyewitness Beauty. Say, this is Eyewitness Beauty. Annie: Evvy help. Get me out. I can't get out. nick: She can't hear you. Okay. I love you. Good morning. Music: Wake up time. nick: Wake up time. Okay. Have fun. Wake up time. where were we? Annie: We were talking about, um, drew Barrymore. Being [00:06:00] performative. Oh, nick: like she gets too close. She gets in your space. You know who ate up every single inch of it? Annie: Bella. nick: Bella Hadid. Bella Hadid. They start out by saying that, you know, Drew says, you know, they told me you're a hugger. You know, you know that I'm a hugger and they just like start hugging and then like Bella brings her crystals and then they like there's like these some energy rocks that they like are trying to decide who's going to take which one and it's like they're both Pisces or whatever they are and like they can't decide who's going to take each one. It's just, I can't Annie: even like, do you have, do you have friends that are like, I love you. I'm always like, that's like. That's like, that's personal. nick: You're like, that's actually inappropriate. It makes you feel uncomfortable. Annie: I'm like, that's between me and my mother. nick: That's between me and God, honestly. Yes, but so the Bella thing and then the, the undercurrent, which I think we sort of touched on in like a snide remark, [00:07:00] but there was a TikTok that I sent you was like the way, you know, like the disease Annie: of it all. nick: Yeah, the Lyme disease of it all. That was not a Snyder Annie: mark, Nick. nick: Well, because there's an under, you know, when anyone is, or when anyone aka we are talking about Bella Hadid's medical history, there's an element of snark because it, Part of this group, it's a little pseudoscience, you know, like there was a anyway, I sent you that tick tock of a creator who was talking about the time where Bella Hadid Instagram, like her doctor report. Her like medical report and it was like what heavy metals were discovered and like toxins removed, you know, like all this stuff when it's like when you start talking parvo, Annie: didn't it say that she had parvo or something like brain nick: [00:08:00] worms or whatever? Annie: Um, well, yeah, I just took expand on what you were saying earlier. There are two, it seems like there's. A two large schools of thought when it comes to chronic Lyme disease, people that think it's real. And it is basically represented. It's a mystery disease, because it shows up in different people in different ways. It can be fatigue. It could be weight loss. It could be what else? Nick, like, brain fog, like, almost sounds like, like, almost like long kind of. nick: Yeah, it's a bunch of unexplained general symptoms and like, sometimes they can be sort of like, you know, and not that the symptoms aren't real, but the cause is not fully nobody's denying Annie: that somebody is clearly going through something if they're seeking out medical attention in this way. So then they go to. You know, they go to a doctor, maybe they go to, you know, a traditional [00:09:00] doctor and they tell them something frustrating, like, you know, just drink more water and get more sleep. We've all been there. And so, but the thing about chronic Lyme is people that get diagnosed with chronic Lyme seem to fit into, uh, A higher tax bracket because they're the people that can afford to go around and say, I'm going to get a second opinion because like, I'm not happy with, you know, or, you know, just to be safe or I, or that I didn't like that appointment. I feel like I'm not being listened to, which is also something that can relate to, you know, and so then nick: the tick tock. The tiktok search is why does celebs have Lyme disease? Yes. Annie: Okay, which nick: I feel like says it all Annie: and so then they go to A doctor that they hear from a friend that's like, you know, that actually sounds like chronic Lyme You should see this one doctor. He's a specialist. And so then these doctors who are I think real they are real doctors like they are A lot of them are MDs. Am I wrong in that? I don't know. Don't quote me on this. Well, I don't know. nick: The place that Bella Hadid had Instagrammed is called Manhattan Advanced Medicine. [00:10:00] And they revealed that she had severely high tissue toxicity. Alkaline tissue. Her energy is in proper alignment. She had fungus, parasites, parvo. What does that mean your energy is in proper? I've, Annie: I've never had a doctor talk about my energy, like, in being in alignment. Is that a thing? nick: I just. Someone said that one of the things was. Fatigue made worse by physical activity, obviously, Annie: And this is also someone, one nick: of the commenters says champagne problems. And that I think is what the reputation that chronic Lyme has is that it's like, you know, it's, uh, Annie: And this, and these are also people that travel a lot. They can afford to international travel frequently. They're probably always exhausted. They're probably like, she, like, this is Bella Hadid, one of the most famous working models and she's already, like, scrutinized a [00:11:00] ton online. She grew up in, like, a famous family. People have all sorts of shit to say about her. So she's probably, like, feeling a lot of physical symptoms that fucking suck. And is probably willing to do whatever, you know, she can to make herself feel better. And I think the criticism about Chronic Lyme is with these Doctors who seem unqualified and are like preaching pseudoscience and charging people a lot of money for really extreme treatments like that involve like IVs and like tons of supplements. So I googled the nick: place that Bella Instagrammed and guess what the first search result is? An article on Goop. But yes, it's called Manhattan Advanced Medicine. It's an alternative medicine practitioner. We, they combine ancient knowledge of natural medicine with sophisticated European biological medicine and modern quantum vibrational energy I mean, this [00:12:00] is, I I don't believe that Western medicine is the only way by any means Annie: anyway. So, yeah, you see a lot of like, rich people with chronic Lyme and, and cause they can also afford like all these treatments and some of the treatments do look, I mean, to the lay person myself, they look almost like stuff that you could do at a while that they offer at wellness spas. So it like, I, it just appeals, I think it just appeals to people to, it makes sense to people to do these things. And listen, I'm right there with them. I have, it's a, it's a scale, right? Of weird stuff. You're willing to try. Like I do red led beds. Do they work? I don't know. I don't know. I don't, I don't know. I'm not a scientist. I've never studied this. Know. Music: Yeah. I don't know. What else do I do? I mean, I, Annie: oh, the spearmint, I do like the spearmint supplements work for me. I don't know. Do and every, any other supplement you take, nick: you've done ketamine treatments. Ke Exactly. Ketamine. Mm-Hmm. . And, and [00:13:00] you find that those work incredibly well. Annie: I find I, now I understand why you would use them. And I think I am a proponent of not using them. As a crutch, because nick: you're, hold on, you're a proponent of not using them, Annie: right? I think it's, I think you should go when you feel like you have no other options because it is extreme. And You need to go somewhere where they evaluate you with a psychiatrist and a therapist, and before they agree to do a treatment, and then it will knock you out of if you are in a, like, if you're having a major depressive episode and you are at your lowest, lowest, like, catatonic, it will knock you out of that, and it'll start kind of helping you, you know, Almost they I've heard it described as like rewiring your brain. I don't know, but it definitely nick: or new like new neural pathways, right? So, [00:14:00] like, you have, like, there's like the thoughts you always have about yourself, like, which are the like, talk of like, okay, if you were sledding, you know, like, the first time you go down a just fresh snowy hill is like, you know, You know, you're creating the path and then the second time it's already made and it's easier and easier and easier. So like they, some of these treatments like psilocybin, ketamine, they sit, they are thinking the way that they work is creating new sledding paths for your brain. That Annie: makes complete sense to me. That is kind of, I think my describes my experience at least. And it also made me, it weirdly made me. Less anxious and then start feeling like what I describe as gratitude and start started making me think about people like the people in my life that are really great. And just concentrate on that and it just puts you in a totally better headspace and better mood and it like, has it lasts and you do like. I had to do I think nine sessions the first time I ever went and you do it every other day So it's a [00:15:00] commitment. And it's expensive and your insurance does not cover it. So nick: But you still wouldn't recommend it. Annie: Oh, and then I think like a year later I was Back in a very low place. And so then I went back for one And that helped knock me out of it. But then I realized this is so extreme. I need to come up with better coping mechanisms. I cause I can't like keep doing this. And then I went back February for two times and I was like, could I have avoided going there probably, but in the moment it felt really, really extreme. So I think like next time I'm having like a, I'm feeling like very overwhelmed. I'm, it's not going to be an option. You know, it's so extreme. It really is. nick: Well, I mean, it feels extreme or just like getting an, you know, like an infusion of like a sedative. Annie: I mean, personally for me, [00:16:00] I'm so scared of needles, so maybe it just feels more extreme for me, but you're also, but I do 90 milliliters, which is on the higher end and it really knocks me into. An alternate, yeah, universe. nick: Yeah. Annie: And also my experience with it last time was very different than the first time. It made me realize like, that I don't care about a lot of things. So it helped. It helped. nick: It like, it changes your perspective somehow. Annie: No, it just like reminded me of my own, my perspective that I knew I had, that I was like, that was like being hidden by like other nick: like emotions. One time I did recreational ketamine. I know I was there. And Oh, right. And I was, like, thinking, you know, I, the, what I didn't like is that I was, like, thinking to myself, like, wait, [00:17:00] we're, like, aliens who have aliens and now I have to, like, raise an alien. Like, what are we all doing as aliens? And I was like, that's, I don't know if I can handle that realization. Annie: Yeah, no, I definitely, that's, see, I know why people are so confused about like ketamine as a treatment and think it's like, so, but I had no like, otherworldly experiences like that. Like it didn't like bring to, nick: yeah, it gives you like, it's a new, it's a different perspective. I know, but I wasn't thinking Annie: like in terms of aliens or like, it's still feel very like grounded. nick: I didn't mean like aliens, but I just mean like we're like these weird beings that like we don't really fully understand what we are or why we are and like we just like reproduce and that's like all we do. Annie: Yeah, it definitely makes you zoom out. And nick: then like have like, yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. Annie: And you kind of like, I nick: didn't, I wasn't like aliens, like spaceships, but yeah, Annie: you kind of imagine like all of your, all of your knowledge existing in a big vacuum, [00:18:00] like you, it kind of makes you like, you know, when you sit too long and you start thinking about how big the universe is and then at the, and then it pops at the end, cause like your mind cannot expand any further. No, yeah. It kind of keeps you in that place for like, I don't know. How long does it last for you? Not that long. nick: Like an hour, but this is like, I'm not doing a. infusion. And I, I'm taking, yeah, I don't, I don't know if it's a good thing for me. Okay. Other top stories. Annie: It also makes you so fun at parties, I will say. nick: I don't know about that. Annie: No, not recreationally. I felt like, like a Tickle Me Elmo with my battery running out. Like I felt like I had like all these thoughts inside my head and I couldn't vocalize them. Like I felt stupid. nick: I don't know if that makes you fun at a party. It might make it more fun to be you at a party. No, I'm saying when I did it recreationally, Annie: that's what it felt like. I hated it. Oh. And then, but, [00:19:00] The infusions. nick: I don't know. You know what? If you're interested in these infusions talk to your doctor. Annie: They'll tell you not to. nick: Okay. Exactly. Annie: Do you want to, was there any conclusion to the Bella thing with Drew Barrymore? nick: Oh, just that, like, it's, it's a little bit of like a cringe festival. And I think that's also the reason why she did this, like alcohol, you know, like, I don't, I think her PR probably said, let's not do this. Talk about lime in the promotion of this fragrance brand because like she said, oh, I just don't like things with alcohol in it, but that as we like imagined is probably related somehow to You know what? It probably Annie: was regulatory. nick: Oh. Said you can't talk. Like you can't. I think it's claim that it, I think Annie: it, it's a, it's, it is. I mean, maybe her PR too, but it is really, it is pretty risky to it's hard even for people that know what they're talking about, it's hard to say something that like wouldn't get you in charge. I see brands all the time making claims that [00:20:00] they like shouldn't be making in media on their websites. It's, nick: yeah. Well, okay, so what's interesting is that I'm looking on the Orabella website and so far salted muse, which is the one that smells like sea salt. The 50 ml is sold out and there's only 10 mls and 100 mls blooming fire, which is the warm floral is sold out of all sizes and window to soul is all available still, Annie: and they're an altar. nick: So there's that. Um, I has anyone could someone call in? If they've tried this and tell us about the smells. I just don't have it in me to buy these. Annie: And if you haven't, then like just write in and say like you're taking on the assignment as a as a on the ground reporter. And yeah. nick: [00:21:00] Yeah. It's also interesting. They don't have like a discovery set. Annie: It's also interesting that they're not on Ulta's homepage. Oh, it is the number one fragrance at the top. It has. Window to Soul has 22 reviews. People seem to really love it. Listen, fragrance is doing so well. We were trying to figure out, we were doing the math over the past week to see like, you know, Nick, Nick broke a major news story that nobody realized, which is that the richest man in the world is a luxury fashion oligarch. And so then I was like, oh, how much of that is beauty? So I looked on LVMH's website, and They're doing really well. They were growing across basically all sectors. And I think after there's alcohol at the top, I think is their number one, like, business in terms of growth and profit, which I guess makes sense because [00:22:00] the with alcohol, the, um, what's it called? The margin, the margins are so huge. The margins are huge and they're not having to launch a ton of product all the time. They have like incredible distribution, blah, blah, blah. And then actually leather goods and fashion came after. So it's still clothes and accessories. Beauty was like, I think it was ball bearings. nick: You can get lost in the Forbes richest people in the world list. Annie: We did last week. Okay. Let's, so do we think Rhodes going to do baby? nick: Road? Oh gosh. Well, I don't think so. I feel like Road needs to figure out its retail distribution ASAP. I feel like people's attention spans are short. And I don't like, [00:23:00] well, like the thing about road is it's cool. It has this, this air of cool. Right. But it's not special skincare, Annie: but I think nick: it's just cool. Annie: I think that they have, Oh no. Perfumes and cosmetics is three. nick: Oh, okay. So Annie: basically my point is if you want to be successful in this world, you better be in the beauty business, you know, nick: true. Annie: This isn't like child's play over here. Music: Mm mm. Annie: You know? Music: Mm mm mm. Like, all the nerds like to be like, Annie: Oh, Elon, or, oh, like, Amazon, like I started it in my garage. It's like, no, no, no. I nick: mean, as I said to someone recently who was contemplating like sort of like what facet of their career they should lean into, I said, some of the richest people I know and have ever heard of started beauty brands, you know, it's like, [00:24:00] Nothing to shake your head at, Annie: but nick: if you're listening to this, then, you know, that, Annie: Back to road. They can't make enough product. They can't keep their product in stock for themselves. So I don't think that they're like in a good place to go into a third party retailer. Do you think that that's why it's taking so long? nick: Mean, maybe I think that there's probably a belief that it's been so successful up until now. And I know they didn't take, I don't believe they took any external like venture money when they started it. Um, I think that there was sort of like. Not sort of I think there was this idea like I'm sort of faith in keeping it all In house and keeping all ownership. In fact, so that's probably more of the conversation is like that You know, they think can we do this alone? Annie: In fact my so Michael Ratner is like a longtime collaborator with Justin [00:25:00] and his wife Lauren runs road with Haley So, yeah, you're, I think you might be, I think you're spot on when you say nick: they're kept Annie: like close to the, nick: I think a lot of, I think, yeah, and I think a lot of brands that sort of find early success are like suspicious, I guess, as, as, as they should be of, uh, You know, going into a Sephora or an Ulta because number one, your margin, right? You're giving Sephora at least half, if not more than half of your profit from every sale, which is a different business than the one you probably built if you were selling direct to consumer first, but also like you lose control. Depending on what, you know, life stage in the business you're in, you know, you're certain things will be dictated you know, product [00:26:00] pipeline, marketing, social, all that sort of stuff. So you have to be ready as a brand mature enough as a brand to like know who you are to have the right people on staff even. So like having a really experienced. You know, head of sales who understands the inner workings of Sephora. Like, I don't know, there's a lot of things you have to have in place. And there's, there's people that there's consultants Annie: that specialize in that, that like started at Sephora who now like consult or work at brands to help them launch into Sephora. Like this is like a very, it is a totally different, it's like running two different businesses when you're. Like have your own brand and you have your own DTC channel and then you also launch in Sephora. You reminded me of something now I'm forgetting. If I were going to, if I were going to give Haley advice, I would say don't go into third party and take your time because like not saying that this was calculated at all, but the, Besides like having an actual baby, which [00:27:00] is incredible, but like, they're going to be, they, their brand awareness is, will never be stronger than it is right now of Haley Bieber and like, She doesn't need the distribution channel to get them new customers right now. And especially if they're having trouble, like making enough product to keep in stock, like to keep up with their own DTC demand. Like it doesn't make, I don't think it makes sense at all for them to go into a third party retailer right now. nick: Okay. No, the thing that I wanted to talk about, which now I just remembered is Kelly Slater, the surfer's new SPF brand when he's like famous for having said. That he doesn't wear SPF. It's like 10 years or whatever. 12 years later, he launches sunscreen. Annie: Yeah. He did an interview in 2011 and in 2011, how old was he? It's not like he was like a kid. nick: He tweeted. Annie: Oh, he tweeted it. Let's see. [00:28:00] Kelly Slater. nick: He tweeted in 2011, quote, I almost never use sunscreen. Annie: Okay. He's 52. So 11 years ago. He says, I nick: have some spots on my neck and my head that I watch out for. Annie: Okay. So he was 41 when he said he never wore a sunscreen. I'm thinking of guys that are 41. nick: Correct. Annie: You don't really, you stop, men stop changing at what, 32. Like they don't, they don't evolve their behaviors. Don't really like if I'm trying to make a point, like if he, if he wasn't wearing sunscreen at 41, I don't think he like over the past seven years, he was like, and this is a professional surfer. This isn't like a casual, like, nick: yeah, no, no. Yes. It's a, it's a, it's a quite extreme. Position change to go from not wearing sunscreen to starting your own. It's one thing. It'd be what if he just went from Not wearing sunscreen to wearing [00:29:00] sunscreen. How about that? He doesn't have to start his own brand skincare brand lifestyle brand Annie: We are exactly on the same page because I talked about this on Substack. Just put, put some sunscreen nick: on, sweetie. I said he should get a Annie: big fat check from Kiehl's and do like a performance sunscreen with them. And because all of his like fans who are Dad surfers. They're not going to DTC sunscreen Kelly Slater calm nick: and and also like if you're a fan of Kelly Slater Are you really buying a brand that's called freaks of nature? Annie: It's giving nick: human race. This is also it's giving human race This is also what? It says in the business of fashion article Slater is flipping his historic aversion on its head. It's not that he's opposed to the concept He said as long as protection comes from minerals and other naturally occurring ingredients rather than chemicals. You know what? I can't handle that. Natural things good, [00:30:00] chemicals bad. Annie: Which reminds me. Speaking of keels, I'm actually, I'm up in arms about this. This is bullshit. Equinox is moving to, who, right now, Equinox is stocked with keels. Like, the basics. I don't, it's nothing to write home about, but it doesn't break me out. It's like glycerin based moisturizers cleansers. Like there's not a lot of oils fragrances and things like that. There are, there's some fragrance actually, but it's very light. It's not essential oils. Maybe it is. Whatever. But you get what I'm saying. It's crowd pleasing, it's like the vanilla flavor of skin care, it does the job, and it doesn't irritate your skin. They're now moved to To Grown Alchemist. I had heard rumblings that they were moving to Aesop, Aesop, [00:31:00] but they just announced today that Grown Alchemist is their new like skincare partner, which pisses me off because Grown Alchemist is all like oils It's complete the formulas are completely different. So now I know great I can't I can't take a shower at the gym anymore and like expect to go about my day because My or I know and now I have to or I have to bring my own You know, skincare and like shit to the gym, which I hate. It makes me so mad. It's like, they weren't considering at all. Hold on. Why don't you like grown alchemist? Cause they're full of oils and the formulas are so different. There's so much heavier. Like you go from like, then what? nick: Then, Annie: then Kiehl's like you go from Kiehl's is I think face moisturizers that they have, uh, Equinox is uh, squalane and glycerin. And then the new one from grown alchemist is like shea butter and an oil. And then it has like a bun and then it has like rose essential oil, just stuff that like is not, nick: well, the funny thing about going alchemist is that I like, I know it's [00:32:00] like a successful company, but I've never, like, I've never thought of it as more than like hand wash, like, like want to be keels hand wash. Right. Annie: I've only ever seen, sorry. nick: Want to be ASAP panel. I've Annie: only ever seen it at like little boutique type beauty places. Like, it seems like a very like niche, almost like mom and pop type brand, which is fine. I'm, nick: but I take Annie: issue with the, the massive like formula change. It's insane. And so many people think about all the people that get ready there every day, that like take a shower there every day and their skin like does well with the keels and whatever. It's like, imagine having all of nick: them. Seriously. Well, you remember that grown alchemist? Is very much not mom and pop. They were acquired by L'Occitane group, but then [00:33:00] they were bought back by its former CEO from L'Occitane. A guy named Andre Hoffman last month, he bought, uh, grown Alchemist back and I guess his first move, though, this has obviously been in the works for many, many, many months is partnering with Equinox Annie: and grown Alchemist has to pay for all of the fixtures, all of the inventory. They're the ones that like, put the bill on getting all their products, like, all they're free to use products and all the equinoxes. nick: Equinox they tested the products first at Hudson Yards. They're like flagship. Annie: When? nick: And I just, Annie: I was just a member of that. I don't know. Oh, nick: sorry. The hotel at the Equinox hotel. Annie: Yeah, but it's the same. nick: Um, Annie: that's where their gym, anyway, whatever. Sure. They did. I didn't see it. And I don't like their web We've been on nick: our own exciting journey to talk about how you can optimize your skin function and your skin health and how you use bioactive [00:34:00] ingredients to do that. It just felt like there was a meeting of the minds on that story, says Anna Thiel, the CEO of Grown Alchemist. I think it's so Grown Alchemist. It's so rude what they did. Annie: I think it's just so incredibly rude. Do the business decision and go to a new brand, whatever. They could have had grown alchemist developed new formulas that were similar to the keel. So it wasn't such a, like, you know, shocking shift, or they could have gone with a brand that already had formulas that were good for sensitive skin, which formulas that are packed with essential oils, unfortunately are not comedogenic skin. And also I wasn't pleased with, I looked at their website, I looked at the formulas cause I wanted to validate my opinion. And they post like their own internal studies of the people that say like 97 percent said my skin looked more moisturized. I don't like it. I didn't like it. I'm very curious to [00:35:00] know how Grown Alchemist became so successful. Like because I agree that I only see it at little boutiques, but like where are they like killing it? nick: If anyone knows, let us know please. What other stories do we have? Annie: Wait, I have something that I needed you to explain that I wanted you to elaborate on That we didn't talk about for the Met Gala, which I feel like I haven't heard anything about since Is what was this other dinner that was happening for beauty people? nick: Oh, so they're okay. Great question So I think maybe two years ago or last year Troy Surratt, the makeup artist, and someone else wanted to have a dinner, like, while, uh, All of the hair and makeup artists who are working with clients who attended the Mech L, they wanted [00:36:00] to have like their own sort of, you know, hairstylist, makeup artist dinner, celebrating their own contribution to the event, which I think is fun and cool and nice. Like, you know, like you're all together when, when do all these people at the top of their game get to all come together and do this, you know, see each other gossip, have fun, toast each other. Then I guess. Violet Gray, Sarah Brown from Violet Gray got involved and like made it a thing kind of like branded it They had like they like celebrated someone got an award. I want to say or like an honor it was at Mr. Chow and now it's like an annual thing Annie: Wow. Yeah, it seemed quite formal, but the way you talk about it starting out to track, I mean, that sounds fun. But it just, it was weird to see something that felt so formal. Cause what I saw was like a clip of, I think you were right. Somebody got an award and it, and I saw like photos of a room that looked like, Almost like a more intimate Met [00:37:00] Gala. I don't know. Like I had like, nick: no, no, it was just, I think it was just a couple of tables at Mr. Chow. But Annie: it seemed like they had like big flower arrangements. And so, I don't know, it just seemed like a little, I nick: mean, they might've gotten some nice flowers, Annie: but like, whatever. Okay. Clearly I was just sprawling. So that's what nick: it is. And I think also Instagram was like a co sponsor of it this year. So yeah, they got a little bit of budget to play with. That's so funny I knew about it, so I wasn't that, um, I wasn't as shocked as you were. Annie: I will say, Kylie Cosmetics, it looks like they hired a new designer. It looks like they're, Kylie is trying to do a little, like she's, she's, the brand is evolving. It looks like they've redone her packaging. To look a little bit more like serious, but they still haven't moved away from that. Like drippy lip. nick: I mean, that's kind of their most iconic thing. Annie: I think they can, I think they would be fine to move away from it now. I think you have to grow with [00:38:00] your customer. nick: I think a lot of brands are scared. Annie: And then finally, Oh my God, we didn't cover the biggest story, Nick. Did you see Glossier brought back their original bomb. com formula? nick: I did see that. Annie: I'm dying at this. nick: They were like, and so basically they changed it so that it would be vegan. Annie: Hold on. I thought it was to take out the people. That's what everybody said. From what I understood, it was because of the petulatum. nick: I don't know. I mean, neither one of us know actually, because we're not like going on. No, but I remember it Annie: being a conversation. That's where I'm not just speculating. Go on, sorry. nick: But anyway, so they basically made it vegan. People hated it. So they were like, actually are reintroducing our non vegan formula and people are happy again. And all was good in the world. Annie: But you have to understand, I was thinking back to when, so they changed the formula after [00:39:00] like I was gone. So you're right. I didn't have like a front row seat to, you know, At the time why they made the decision. I remember it being I remember being constantly bullied by like, very, like, probably 12 really loud people online about how it had petrolatum, nick: but you're this was at the beginning of clean beauty. Annie: You're going to get that. No matter what it was always, it's going to be something with these people, which is fine. You're allowed to like buy whatever you want. You don't have to bully the social media person relentlessly on every post. Anyway. Um, but then, but you have to understand bomb. com was like, The number one seller. So the fact that they went, why else would a brand make like a million flavors of something like the bomb. com was selling great. So I don't understand. I would, I would have loved to have insight on like what went into the decision to like, just be [00:40:00] like, fuck it. Let's just update the formula. Oh, I think it was maybe because Sephora clean clean at Sephora. It couldn't, that's what it was. I bet you that was it. They were preparing to go into Sephora. They went in and I think both petrolatum and the, I think it had lanolin. Yeah, it had lanolin. The original formula had lanolin in it. Which again is like, you can be cruelty free without being vegan. So like lanolin comes from sheep's wool. You don't kill the sheep to harvest it. You know, there's arguments. It's like, nick: we don't know if the sheep are like thoroughly enjoying that process. Right. Annie: I mean, I don't mean to laugh, but like, yes, that's the argument people make. So it just depends. I think nick: it's like, it might not, it might not kill the sheep, but it might be traumatic, which I'm Annie: like. Okay, police dogs, you know, nick: that's all they know. Annie: Okay. Have you ever also like a really rich woman's lapdog? I don't know that [00:41:00] I don't know that they're always happy You know nick: true. Annie: I think some dogs like see too much but anyway, um and then clearly it was such a bad decision that they had to go back to the Petrolot of Milan. I'm dying. What? Somebody, I can't, I, I can't wait. I, this will be a topic of discussion. Did you order nick: it? Annie: you know, who has the biggest stash, like prepper style stash of original glossier formulas is Karen creep bomb, because my sweet fucking mother, every time an email came through from glossy, she would, she would buy something. She'd be like, you know, she understood, like, I need, you know, your numbers. It's like, she. Still places orders in, nick: in box, in the full box, to this day, like the whole thing, in all of, Annie: in all of my like, like gear, like employee Annie: products, [00:42:00] they've all, they're all just in her, in a closet in her house, so there's, I could have probably made like, at least 30, 000 selling original bomb. com formulas. So again, I am fucked with the finances here. but yeah, no, I'm, I just think it's funny because too, I've been there, right? Like we've both like been like decision makers on this kind of, kind of thing. So it's just like very, it's very interesting. The psychology behind all of this. nick: That's all the time we have today. We will be back next week with a brand new episode with a lot of different new things to talk about and our. Podcast is produced by Jonathan Korman, a friend of the pod. And we are edited by AJ Mosley. Find us on Patreon, patreon. com slash eyewitness beauty. You can email us at hi at eyewitness beauty or Nick or Annie at eyewitness beauty. com patrons get the video versions of our [00:43:00] podcast. And we like our oftentimes in the comments to giving a little extra tea, spilling a little bit extra tea. So we will talk to you next week. Annie: Bye.