EWB 5.2 Nick: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to eyewitness beauty, the podcast where we talk about the biggest stories in the beauty industry each week. I'm Nick Axelrod Welk and I'm joined as always by Diamond Creek Bomb, AKA Annie Creek Bomb, my, the co hostess with the mostest. Annie: Aw, aw shucks. Nick: Every episode, which by the way is video version On patreon only I feel like you end up with like a little bit more makeup so that in like a few months It's gonna you're gonna have like you're gonna be in full drag. Annie: Yeah, that's the plan Nick: Like with the like crazy lines on your under your cheekbones and stuff like the the contour Annie: Yeah. No, I want to get a full new face I think I want to go in for some real, some real [00:01:00] plastic. Nick: I mean, I tell Casey that when Glossier, whatever happens with Glossier, they sell whatever, I'm going to be unrecognizable. He won't even know who he married. Yes. He won't even know who I'm going to, I'm going to go away and then I'm going to come back and everyone's going to be like, I don't know who this, I don't know who you are. Annie: No, I disagree. Don't do it. Wait, wait, who's your face? Who's your face? Like, who's your face card? Nick: My face idol. That's a, I mean, I don't really, I don't want to look like anyone else. Like I'm okay looking like myself. I just, so like I have obviously the size and the shape of, you know, my people, by which I mean Jews, but what I, and as a very spunky Patreon user said, I talk about that quite a bit. Oh yeah. You had a little bit of Annie: a, Nick: I had a little, you know, join the Patreons. You can really get into it with me. Annie: I was like, wow, we have so many comments this week. [00:02:00] Nick: I was like, you know what? If you weren't a paying subscriber. Then I would really be giving you a piece of my mind, but no, I love her honestly, or him. I think it was her. Anyway I just want, I want to take up, I don't want it to hook as much as it hooks. Like I'm, I'm fine with the size and the shape and like the bump on my nose, but I just want to take up the tip droop down. Annie: Can this be done with. Injectables, I know, Nick: A little bit, but it's not like, obviously it's not permanent and anything in the nose in the main part of the nose, like the bridge and the sort of like, middle of the nose is pretty dangerous because there's big blood vessels, arteries or something. Annie: Yeah. So just cut that thing open. Nick: Yeah. So I'd rather just like go under the knife and anyway, you won't recognize [00:03:00] me. Like the, you know what, if it's like a secret transaction and, you know, no one knows if Glossier sold or whatever, and they're waiting to announce it. And all of a sudden I pop up on the, eyewitness beauty screen to record one day and I look like a different person you'll know what happened Annie: and it's only you because I Have fulfilled my promise of nobody ever seeing me at all again Nick: um It's like it'll just be a version of me that I don't know that only I can recognize Anyway, do we Annie: want to get into some arts and culture? Nick: Yes Annie: Um, okay. So my mom, okay. First, my best friend from college, Katie came and stayed with me and she always has the best, most like, she's definitely one of my most cultured friends. She works in music. She is always [00:04:00] traveling and she always has the best recommendations. And we went to see this movie. Have you heard of it? It's called La Chimera. It's Italian. Nick: No. Does that mean, like, mystery or something? Like, what does chimera mean? It's like a vision? Annie: I, using context clues, having seen the movie, you might be right. I didn't look it up. Yeah. However, it stars Josh O'Connor from the Challengers. He's one of the boys in the Challengers movie. And I love this movie. I want to recommend it, and I want to tell you why, but I also Personally enjoy not knowing anything about a movie and going in completely blind. So I want to give people that opportunity. So I won't explain further. I just go see this movie Nick: chimera And then also probably see challengers even though I haven't seen it Their reviews have been really good and people that I respect are obsessed with it Annie: [00:05:00] I'm, so sick of the fucking knee jerk media because the moment challengers came out. I all I saw were all these like critical pieces saying this movie had a 55 million dollar budget and only brought in like, I don't know, 6. 7 million dollars its first weekend. What a flop. And then after that, I now I see like everybody raving, ranting and raving about it. And so I don't know. You're Mr. Hollywood. Tell me what's going on with, Nick: Well, okay, you're right. I am Mr. Hollywood. I have my ear to the ground and the buzz is good. But I also think that well, I guess I. They're like the anchor, which is like 1 of the newsletters that I read, which is like a Hollywood newsletter was like, their headline over the weekend was something around, like, Ken's and open, like, the difference between a lot of really wonderful actresses. And then, like, the superstar actresses is like, whether [00:06:00] their name alone can open a movie, which was. And because it ended up doing so well, I think the answer is yes. There are like so many examples of people, women, men too, obviously. But in particular, like women who can open, like Julia Roberts, Jennifer Lawrence Emma Stone now can open movies. But, you know, can Rachel McAdams? No, Annie: yeah, but wouldn't you say that about Margot Robbie too, but she had Nick: She was in Annie: like several movies. I think the year before I think I Tanya Nick: probably changed it for her Annie: Where she could open or she couldn't but what about Amsterdam? I Nick: mean Amsterdam was just a flop all around Annie: so not her fault Nick: No, I don't think so. Do you? Dune was a collaborative, you know, it was everyone and their mother was in Dune. So I think it was less like you could not pinpoint it to Zendaya, but [00:07:00] I feel like she, I also read that she got like a 10 million paycheck for challengers. And that was really high for someone her age and with her experience, I think. And so Sorry, one of the most Annie: famous actresses alive right now. Nick: Yeah, but TV. Annie: I mean, Nick: I mean, I guess she was in Spider Man. Annie: Yeah. But Nick: again, that was more about Tom Holland. Annie: Why don't we take it East Coast style? Let's talk about Broadway! Nick: What do we got? Your favorite Cole Escola is taking what is it called? Proud Mary? Hail Mary? Oh, Mary. To Broadway. Annie: You didn't think, you didn't think this was what I was about to talk about. Nick: Oh, no. What is that? Was that it? Did I Not Annie: only Not only did my friend Katie come, then my friend, my mom, who's also my friend, and she, I was like, when Nick: she Annie: told me the dates, when she confirmed the dates, I was at the precipice of my vibance that day. So I just [00:08:00] itinerated everything. I like bought the tickets. I did the whole like jazz club, this restaurant, this restaurant, this museum, this place. Oh, Let's do an actual Broadway show too. And so I just pulled a rabbit out of a hat. No, that's not it. I pulled like a straw or like I randomly chose a play on Broadway. Called Merrily We Roll Along. Yeah, Nick: it's one of the, I mean, as a, you know, former Broadway, you know, obsessed little kid, I, it was one of those that I never saw like company and merrily roll along or two that I'd never, I don't really know what they're about. They're about, I think I actually did that. I think I took a weed gummy and did some research and Merrily is that the one about like friend, it follows like friends and it goes like from the past to the future to the past. You know, that's okay. Yeah. Annie: Well, it's an, it's um, Well, I guess it has kind of a fraught history [00:09:00] in terms of like, it's been successful. It's been rewritten a ton of times when it was first, Nick: it was Stephen Sondheim. Annie: Yes. Nick: Um, Annie: and it's reverse. Yeah. It's a play. That's like, it's basically like the Disney channel version of irreversible. Got it. The disease, um, just kidding. But it is reverse chronological order and the main character is a successful producer. So the first scene is like him towards the end of his career. He's like the man, but he's like very unhappy and he like lost all of his It shows kind of like all the relationships over the years until back when he was like a college student and him and his two best friends like, you know, met for the first time the three of them became a little group. And, uh, It stars one of the most handsome men I've ever laid eyes upon. Nick: Jonathan Groff? Annie: Yes. Who was also from Mindhunter had no, I was like, that's where I know this guy. I Nick: mean, he's from Spring [00:10:00] Awakening on Broadway was where he started and he was also, I mean, I'll tell you what he's also in, he's also, he's in Frozen. Annie: He's yes. And he was also, yeah, he was in Glee. But I'm not a glee. I'm not a glee girl. I'm not a gleek. But he was excellent. I am so impressed. Why didn't nobody tell me like all these Broadway performers are so fucking talented. Nick: I mean, you have to be, I mean, you know what we haven't talked about on this podcast? Annie: Wait, wait, wait. Nick: Renee Rapp, continue. Annie: Okay, well, put that in your back pocket. My money's Nick: on Broadway performers. Annie: Can we talk about how Daniel Radcliffe also starred in this? And I almost cried seeing him on stage. I just was overcome with emotion. Because of Harry Potter? I don't know, it was weird, because I don't Nick: I saw him in Equus where he gets naked. Annie: Is that, does he fuck a horse? I know. Nick: It's implied. Annie: See, my mom thought I was being a pervert. Nick: Yeah, no. It's, I mean, it's definitely about a man who has like a fixation with, or sexualize, you know, [00:11:00] sexualizes horses. Is Annie: it about Mr. Hands? Nick: What's Mr. Ha Annie: I don't really know. I've just heard it. I think it's a guy, I think it's a real life story of a guy that had sex with a horse and died. I don't know why it's called Mr. Hands. I don't anyway, our Nick: readers fill in the blanks. Annie: It was so good. Everybody was so beautiful. I loved like, Oh, it was so Nick: Broadway performers. It's an, it's a sport. It's like you're, you have to be able to do the same thing at a really, like at the pinnacle, you know? Like. Performing eight nights a, you know, eight shows a week. Annie: I, yeah, I mean, it was just, how do people Nick: do it? Annie: I don't know. But, and then Kareem Abdul Jabbar was there. Nick: That's a left turn. Annie: Right? Isn't that weird? And then I made my mom see, Oh Mary again. I saw it cause I already saw it. [00:12:00] And is it Nick: impossible to get tickets now? Like, because of all the press? Annie: Yes. It's impossible to get cheap tickets or like reasonably priced tickets, but you can buy them on like StubHub or whatever. Weirdly though, nobody was sitting in front of us. There were like four seats empty in front of us. It was like, I felt like the queen of England. And it was Just as funny this time and Nick: I'm happy that you're getting into Broadway because I there have been different periods in my life obviously when I lived in New York where I would see shows and it's like one of the Things that you can like that really only exists in New York is like that I mean, I guess in the West End in London, maybe but yeah, but other like just the level of The quality of live theater in New York. And you're like, whoa, this is like a move, like a live movie. Annie: Yeah. I mean, even it's even more special than that because they're literally like, even there's a, I don't even want to say minor character. Cause there's like four [00:13:00] actors in. Or five actors total in Oh, Mary. But in the end he comes out and like plays the piano live. I'm just like these fucking Broadway kids, these performers. They're so good. Um, so Nick: go ahead. Annie: I had something else to say. Oh, you know what? Turn. I actually did see an incredible live performance. I saw Bradley Cooper play the elephant man in London. With my friend Katie, who is the one that got us tickets. Case in point, another one for Katie. Nick: Side note for the readers, if you haven't seen Bradley Cooper on Jimmy Fallon talking about the Elephant Man when he was promoting, I think it was moving to Broadway, and they like cannot stop laughing. For like 10 minutes, they like laughing Annie: about Nick: about the elephant man, sort of, but like, trying not to, but like, it is Oh, because I think also, if I remember correctly, Bradley Cooper, like, is [00:14:00] wearing one of those, like, visors that also has like, you know, like a mullet on it or like, you know, Guy Fieri spikes, you know, it's like, it's a visor that has like a wig built into it. Oh, just for the interview? Like a gag. Just for like a gag. Oh, okay, okay. And so he's like wearing this dumb hat, and then Jimmy Fallon asks him like about this very serious role that he's playing, and they both, like, it's the, it's the craziest like break you've ever seen. They cannot, they can't gain composure to like even I don't even know if they got through the interview. Annie: God, Jimmy Fallon's so annoying like that. Nick: I know, but this was like, I mean, a redeeming moment. Anyway, continue. Annie: Anyway and then I saw Book of Mormon, loved it, and like some other plays on Broadway. And then I saw fucking Mean Girls and it was terrible. Nick: Who was the, who was Regina George in your Mean Girls? Annie: I don't even remember. Nick: Was it Sabrina Carpenter? Was it Renee Rapp? Annie: I don't know. Have there [00:15:00] been others? Nick: I think so. Yeah, there's been a lot. Annie: Okay. I mean, it hasn't been on Broadway that long, has it? Nick: I don't, I mean, it feels like it was a while ago that it went on Broadway. The movie I couldn't get through, but Renee Rapp, who I guess first popped off, popped on our radar, because she won, you know, like the high school version of the Tonys, they're called the Jimmys. Annie: No, I had no idea. Nick: So this is a, another. We feel deep dive I did so the high school version of the Tony's are called the Jimmy's and now they've like become a thing, but I guess they always were a thing in the high school theater community. Anyway, Renee rap. I think 1, the Jimmy's or 1, a Jimmy or whatever it is when she was in high school and the North Carolina high Annie: school. Nick: No, you think that and then she played Regina George on Broadway as Mean Girls as did Sabrina Carpenter Annie: I will say that is a dangerous game. They're playing giving theater kids and a big national award like that. [00:16:00] So Nick: well, here's the thing So Renee rap, did you see her? I mean she she was the Musical guest on SNL I did a month ago and it was the most insane, you know like when Yes, people, I guess, after Ashley Simpson are not full out lip syncing, they're definitely using, like, autotune. You know, mics or they're not sounding amazing. Like it's somewhere in there. Usually Renee rap is fucking insane. She's like one of the songs she performs lying down or like, there's a video of her on Tik TOK sitting in a chair, like belting this like insane song. And it's, it seems effortless and like, Yeah, no offense, Annie: she's sitting down. You're Nick: talking to someone that like, I, I can't sing. Annie: I don't know, I've never Nick: tried to be a singer. [00:17:00] So incredible. And as a performer, as a singer, like, but she also has this stamina and like, has trained her voice like a muscle and is able to like, pull it out, but also preserve it in a way that I've like, I'm flabbergasted by it. I feel like it's all because of musical theater training. Because you're like, it's, it's like being on a team. You learn how to like do something to like, not shoot, you know, like have your vocal cords fried and shot, you know, like, like how to scream, how to cry, how to do all these things. Like while preserving your instrument. Annie: I'm so impressed. I really am. I just, yeah. Nick: Let's table that for a second and do stories, top stories. So I feel like. The biggest story of the week, which was what Annie: after we said that it was a really [00:18:00] major news week. Nick: No, it was, but what I'm trying to remember, like the one that we've been dying about and that we needed to talk about, Annie: well, or a Bella launch today Nick: or a Bella, which is the fragrance brand from Bella Hadid and a couple of things I want to say. One, it's giving Christian Louboutin beauty. It's giving, you know, off brand Mugler angel. And more so than that, I want to shout out Queen Naomi Campbell, who on the day that the Orabella packaging was revealed in Bella's, you know, Instagram and on Vogue. com, wherever it was, Naomi Campbell did some very shady Instagram stories of a fragrance that she made. In the, like, 2000s that, like, no one, I didn't remember being, like, just thinking about, [00:19:00] like, this fragrance I did and it's, like, the same packaging and it was just so, so shady. And I love Annie: it. Get a life. Nick: I mean, but honestly, like, she didn't tag Bella. It didn't make news. It was sort of like, you have to know to know kind of thing. Annie: Okay, but like what does she have against Bella? Nick: I mean, I my issue with Bella is I feel like she is associated with that the like fake health information Movement, which is dangerous. Annie: What chronic Lyme? Nick: Well, it's I mean Annie: We have to talk about the connection between Crying selfies and chronic Lyme disease. I'm not gonna I I'm not gonna pass judgment on people that how about Nick: mental health and chronic Lyme You Have you, okay. I know we're like referencing a lot of things that are not part of this podcast, but there's also a really amazing, I think it's Molly Fisher in New York magazine, a few years did a really [00:20:00] exhaustive piece. Long, long, long story about Lyme disease and like how, like the sort of rise of Lyme disease and what, and the doctors who've made it an industry to treat it, to treat chronic Lyme, because it's a relatively new phenomenon. And a lot of what, you know, it's all, it's all, it's often for what I remember from the article, like, it's a catch all diagnosis for like, a lot of unexplained symptoms for some people. Yeah. Some people start with a bullseye. Tick bite, but I think a lot of people don't Annie: okay, Nick: and the meth, you know, it's a it's about pain. It's about Annie: Fatigue Nick: fatigue. It's about a lot of things that can be caused by a lot of things And anyway, that is what I have to say about Chronic Lyme. Annie: Okay, but back to present day, now. Nick: Back to present day now, Bella Hadid. She [00:21:00] launched alcohol free fragrances, which suck. Annie: Okay, I'm assuming that alcohol free has to do with the Chronic Lyme, right? Is she trying to avoid alcohol because she thinks it's like a toxin? It, Nick: I mean, that wasn't the headline. It wasn't really explained. She was like, I don't, I prefer things that like it's in the women's wear daily article. It said something like, I prefer things that are alcohol free. And she wasn't pressed on that. I wonder if they even did a live interview or whether it was just like quotes that she was given. We're gonna, I'm gonna find this out because I know that people come here for the real news. Annie: I. I can just give my like high level critique. I I think they really, I don't think she's has the right experts on her team doing like the website and the digital marketing. Nick: It looks like a brand from 20 years ago. Annie: No, it's not even, it's not even in the design. It's more in like UX of the site and I mean, yes, it is a lot of, [00:22:00] it is some to do with the design, but it's the, whatever's happening between the design and the UX is like, not very it's not executed. Well, like, it looks like a brand where they didn't invest in their digital team. And I just expect, I don't know, I don't know why I do because I think her brand is like, I don't know, I just think she's so, so it's just the halo effect probably of all of her like clients over the years where I think, I think of her as like, you know, a very like high value, like face, right? Like she's been the face of like so many luxury brands and then she comes out with a brand herself and her personal brand is Depop. You know, so I don't know why I like I expect like more elegance in terms of and I don't mean like Oh, I want it to look like the row or whatever. But I just mean, like, it doesn't seem like she has people around her that even know what they're Nick: doing. It's like, it's like Anna [00:23:00] Sui from 2007. Annie: No, but I mean, do you know what I'm talking about? I'm talking about the way they like the button size on her email. Like they literally took a template from the email and like, didn't do any sort of like customization and. Nick: No. And it's like very, It's just kind of like, it's kind of like low rent. It's low rent. Yeah. Annie: And then like the styling and the styling of all the photos, it's like, okay we launched a fragrance, right? So it has notes. And in the conversation of you talking about the fragrances, you're going to mention all the different ingredients that go into the fragrance. Yet the way that she shot the like editorial photos for the fragrance, it's like, it's for a fragrance that has no florals, yet she's like covered in like daisies or something like rainbow daisies. And I'm just like, nobody's like, You didn't have somebody being, you didn't have an adult in the room being like, okay, this is not me like saying, no, this doesn't make sense. Like we're going to do it this way. Let's like, stay focused. Let's, you know, define the brand in this way and then stick to it. It just felt like she called, called in her friends at different points and they like made [00:24:00] content that didn't have. I don't think Nick: here's what I agree with everything you're saying. Thank God we have a podcast together. What I find upsetting from like a purely like. Environmental perspective is, I feel like on the 1 hand, we're seeing all these articles by, like, all of these experts that say, if you're a celebrity, like, there has to be an authentic connection, you know, like, really, like, authenticity is King and blah, blah, blah. And there's like, a saturation and like, that's what every single article is. And then, on the other hand, you still have these celebrities with a lot of equity. Like, I feel like Bella has, has a lot of, you know, cultural equity. People are curious about her and she's, you know what I mean? And like, and this is the execution when she, like, it's not like the articles haven't been written yet that she or her team could read to like, inform the execution. Like [00:25:00] the answer's there. It's just, it's whether she's being shielded from the answers or doesn't care, but like, this is. The quote that she gave Women's Wear Daily, the first words that she gave about her reason for launching fragrance. Annie: Okay. Nick: My way into fragrance was being on my farm with our lavender plants, and we have a cute health food store down the street from my house there. They have the craziest variety of essential oils, and I'm obsessed with putting things together that you wouldn't normally smell. Annie: It's so weird. So, yeah. What? So, for me, uh, so, for us, it's like a brand, branding, branding thing. People brand, you know, like, there's no, that story has no tie to how the brand came out. Like the gold that I thought it was going to be, I thought she was going to really deep. I thought she was going to really reach into her, like heritage. Her Palestinian, Nick: Palestinian, Swedish, whatever. [00:26:00] Like Annie: it was giving, like, it was giving Muhammad, you know, it was giving her dad, like, like she should have shot it in like his, like, Carpet room. Nick: That's already a better idea. Annie: I mean, it seemed to me that that's exactly where they were going. So when all the photos started coming out this week, it like took a total left turn. And then they did the thing that I hate the most when brands do this is, and not in every, in a night there's definitely something to be said about building up, building up, building up momentum. And before you launch, of course, and teasing and whatever, but the launch this week was super weird because they. It felt like they launched on Tuesday. The website was up, but you couldn't buy anything. And it looked like everything was sold out because the button said notify me. And so for me, a dumbass customer that like wasn't keeping up on socials, I was like, Oh, it's sold out. Like I will, I'll come back when they're available. And then apparently it's like, no, they're available today. So why, I don't know. I just don't think that you should send people to your [00:27:00] website if you don't have something for them to do. That's like e com 101. And so people should have been able to sign up with their email, which is what we've already done, or they should have been able to buy the product. If they're ready to like give you money, you need to like, let them give you money. And so whatever happened on Tuesday shouldn't have happened. Nick: Yes, I agree. And I think that I'd rather, I would, I'd rather that our conversations and our comments not be construed as like, you know, like being a bitch. Like, I think it's, it's more just like, it's, it's a weird, Ignorance or like, disinterest in looking at the market and like pass mistakes in whether it's e com or, you know, like CX fragrance marketing, beauty mark, you know, it's like, it's a weird, it's a weird flex when you have all of the resources. Like, for example, you asked [00:28:00] about the alcohol thing, which is to me, when you're launching fragrance, like. You know, the fact that it's, it has to be shook or shaken, like before you use it is like a huge that's like a really big thing, right? It's like most fragrance you don't. And like, it looks weird. It turns color, you know, whatever. So it has no alcohol. Annie: It's a bad user experience. Nick: Correct. Here's what she said. Just she knew that any scent she made would have to askew alcohol quote. I've always had an aversion to alcohol and scents. What? What? Annie: Isn't she sober now? Couldn't she have said, I mean, she could have gone like a couple of different ways with the no alcohol thing. Nick: Yeah. Annie: I don't know. I think the sober thing would have been a stretch, but. Nick: And then, yeah, but the, at least, I mean, you know, chronic Lyme would have been less of a stretch. Like I don't like anything that like, you know, is whatever. Annie: If she said, which I, like, hate this, she could have said I didn't want chemicals or I didn't want toxins, I would have given her a pass. You know? Nick: Me [00:29:00] too! It would have been like, yeah. So anyway first of all, the names of the three fragrances are salted muse window to soul with the, the, the number two and blooming fire. But what I wanted to say is that, um, She's calling it a bi phase, the first bi phase perfume. What does she mean by bi phase? Well, one phase is the brand's proprietary Auralixer, which is a blend of snow mushroom, almond oil, jojoba, shea, and camellia oils for skin hydration. The other phase houses essential oils and the fragrance's raw materials. So, what that means is that the first phase is filler oils, like, you know. Moist skin, moist skin, you know, moisturizing oils. And then the second phase is the smell. Annie: Well, isn't, isn't biphase in terms of formula, like water and oil though, that you have to shake? [00:30:00] Correct, but the way she's describing it as, Nick: as that. Oh, okay. But my issue is, is like, it's, you know, So you're moisturizing your wrist. It's not meant, it's not a body mist. It's a perfume. It's a fine fragrance. You're meant to spray your wrist. So why are you putting like, why are you putting shea butter, shea oil, and sweet almond oil on your wrist? Annie: Did the article say like who she worked with on the brand? Not the formulators, but like Anyone helping her do the brand strategy? Any beauty people? Nick: Actually doesn't say. It says that she's going into Ulta. That's obviously Ulta knows beauty and they were It sounds like intimately involved since the whole plan was to launch and then go into Alta. But it, I don't know. It's just like, it's like a little like depressing to me. I wanted you to put something on your skin that would have multiple [00:31:00] purposes. In today's day and age, and so many products, I know how hard people work for their money. You do? I didn't want to just put something on the market. That was just a money grab. I wanted people to use it and appreciate it every day and feel like their day is better because of it. And that's why I went with the by phase formula with moisturizing effects. So she's saying that moisturizing your wrist is another benefit. Again, it's, this is not a face mist or a body mist or a scented, you know, body oil. Like this is a fine there. She's calling it on her website, a parfum. No, no E. That's how fancy it is. And so to say that it has another property and like, who has, like, I don't know. I mean, it's a mess. Annie: The messaging is a total mess. I don't know. And I think we're being so critical because it's such an opportunity to do anything with her is our point. Nick: Exactly. And we're just like, we would, I would die. Like it would be, no, I wouldn't die, [00:32:00] but it would be so exciting to work with someone who has that much equity. Among like Gen Z and hat, like the D pop of it all define, you know, the super high fashion of it all, you know, like the horses, the, there's just so many places in her life. You can pull from. Annie: I've been approached like over the years to work with celebrities, not in the way that you have successfully done, but kind of, I guess, like I've been approached like, Oh, this celebrity is doing a beauty brand. Will you, I'm, you know, we're looking for a consultant to do that. And like, we basically want you to recreate glossy for this person or whatever, you know, and I've always turned it down one because I don't know, I'm not, I don't believe in celebrity brands, but to Just in terms of like a numbers game that it can be done. But as we've seen, it's often not successful. But to I worry that my personality with the celebrity that's like not they don't even have to be a monster. But if [00:33:00] it's a celebrity, especially one from like a very privileged background, that's not often told. No, and that's coddled. I feel like We would just like clash. I, I feel like so much of my job is saying no and like editing, editing, editing, and getting to the point and getting to the like best possible, like strategy outcome, whatever. But and it seems like there was no editing with her. And I wonder if it's because the people that she's surrounded with were just saying, yeah, whatever you want. Like. And she doesn't have to be a monster to have, to get, to have people treat her that way. It's not giving Nick: monster. It's giving, didn't read, didn't like, didn't read Women's Wear Daily Business of Fashion, glossy, beauty independent, like has not, is entering in and no one was like, oh, hey, So like, I feel like we should have some talking points and really when you're selling fine fragrance, like X, Y, Z, or, you know, or like, just like, [00:34:00] Annie: Can we, I will say, let's end on a positive note with Bella. Ken was perfect. Ken is perfect for her. She partnered with someone that like could do the brand side or had already done the brand side. Who's Ken? Ken Euphorix, her drink brand. Nick: Oh, Ken! Oh my god, your Texas drawl, I couldn't understand what you were saying. I heard Ken, like Barbie and. Annie: How do you say it? Nick: Ken. Annie: Ken. That's what I said. Nick: I mean, I guess you did, but like, in your accent, it sounded like Ken. Anyway, sorry. I didn't think I had an accent. Ken. Ken. Ken. Annie: But do you agree? Like, that brand is the perfect situation for her because, She, she's so aligned with kind of their messaging and I think they also train her well on like how to talk about the brand and how she actually like, It aligns with her, like, lifestyle, it seems. Nick: Yeah. Oh [00:35:00] my God. You can buy a perfume stand. Also, the pictures are, the pictures are blurry. Annie: I know. That's what I'm saying. They didn't have that. They have like amateur hour, like they have the C team on the digital side. Nick: It's so weird. Hydrating. It's a hydrating fine fragrance. Is it a Annie: Shopify website? I feel like they just took like a Shopify template and like dropped photos. I mean, Nick: in which case I'm like, you know what? All about saving money. Annie: No, no, no, no. Not when your father is Muhammad Hadid. But Nick: you know what I found out recently, you know how you know what rich people do and I know Annie: I have no Nick: I'm certainly not speaking from my experience Rich people don't spend their own money. Annie: No comment Nick: you know like that's my That's my takeaway is I bet that she [00:36:00] didn't sell she didn't self fund. I can't maybe actually, you know what? This is all conjecture obviously, but like maybe she did self fund it which is why I No one said, Annie: let me help you Nick: with that. Moisturizing fine fragrance, moisturization is not really a benefit that most people seek in their fragrance. Annie: Okay, next story. Next story. That's enough. I don't want to hurt her feelings. I don't want Nick: to hurt her feelings. I know, we were too mean. It's the Annie: last thing I want to do. It's the last thing I want to do. Nick: Speaking of celebrities launching products. This is just in Sofia Coppola, ex Augustinus Botter. She, I guess, apparently kind of approached him to do the collaboration, which, or the brand, I should say, which is sort of funny. But basically, they met at a, she met the CEO at a dinner and, I guess, sent him a note a few days later saying, Here are some colors I think you should make the lip balm in. I really love the lip [00:37:00] balm, but I'm not saying it should be, like, we should collaborate. And he was like, obviously we should collaborate. And then they came out with three lip balm colors. Annie: See, this is why Barbara Sturm had that big party the other night, the big dinner party. Exactly. You Nick: never know who you'll meet. I will say though, that would you agree that there are several beauty, like top shelf grails, you know, like in our, in our world, like beauty grails, people grails. I'd say Sofia Coppola is one of them, if not the ultimate, she's like the ultimate, you want to go into her bathroom and know every single thing she uses, how she found it, why she uses it, you know, like you want what she learned from her mom who just passed away, like, like, she is the ultimate, and she's so private. And so we've never had that opportunity. She's like the ultimate beauty grail in some ways. Like Chloe 70 would have been but like she's kind of [00:38:00] more available. Like we know, you know, she's made a fragrance I think she did a Annie: top shop. Nick: We did. Maybe that's I thought I saw Sophia has it. Nick: Who else would be one? Annie: I mean my ultimate is Penelope Cruz, but she's branded to the gods So she's not allowed. No, no All of her skin care is Lancome. Okay. Um There's there's a woman that just you know It just looks hotter and hotter and hotter. I Nick: But like, but she's almost like, she has an endorsement. Like I feel like the thing about Sofia Coppola is that she, those who, if you know, you know that she's obsessed with beauty, you know, like she's like a beauty junkie. And I feel like that made her even, like, that made her even more, like, that she, like, I remember hearing that she maybe read Into the Gloss at some point, like, there was just, like, all this sort of, like, mythologizing around, like, what her [00:39:00] personal beauty pics would be. Annie: And so anyway, I, Nick: I was the, the 25 year old in me was excited. Annie: Okay, so you're saying there's a chance Sofia Coppola has read my writing? Nick: Yeah, 100%. Okay, Annie: I can die. Okay. Well, I, no, I mean the whole, my whole goal, you know, is to like write and direct a movie. So yes, the beauty girl to movie to Oscar pipeline is it's up and running. So, Nick: but anyway, that's a funny brand for her to partner with. And why not Chanel? As Annie: is, as is the random, as is the random, the French Nick: cashmere brand that she also did something with. Annie: Why are they? I don't know. I feel like, I feel like she does it because she. Is so established it like doesn't matter. She probably doesn't even ask her any money Nick: I think she's not doing it for money. She's like literally doing it for the love of beauty, which I respect Annie: But she who has a love for cashmere jumpsuits. They're not comfortable. They pill [00:40:00] I think it was just like one of her close friends that was like Sophia, will you do this? Nick: Speaking of for the love of beauty, Gypsy Rose, where do we where does this go? So she just debuted platinum hair, she got a nose job, she has platinum hair, where, like, there's a few different, you know, well worn paths, right? There's the John Gosselin, Kate Gosselin, you know, you end up DJing a Disney cruise or something, right? You know, like there's that trajectory. Annie: Is that what they did? Nick: I don't know. I mean, John Gosselin was like a DJ at some point and he would, you know, DJ the, Annie: Oh, he repulses Nick: me. I don't know. Then there's, I guess the sort of like, you know, Amanda Knox who sort of stays out of the spotlight, works on highbrow things, you know, Annie: I would say she basically does anything that people ask [00:41:00] her to do. Nick: Maybe that's true. But like the tabloid star. Sort of like the unintentional tabloid star or the un, like it wasn't, it was brought on her. She didn't seek it out. Right. Gypsy Rose. True Crime Celebs. True Crime Celebs. That's a great. Oh, my God. That's our, that's another podcast. That's a genius podcast. A true crime celebrity podcast. Anyway, gypsy Rose Jr. GR GRB platinum blonde hair, like kind of like Ashley blonde nose job broke up with her husband. Where does, where do you think it, how does this go for her? She gets a, she gets another, you know, season of her show. Annie: I mean, she tries dating Nick: on the show. She goes on some dates. Annie: I mean, all of these things are a cause for concern because we want her to be well, mentally, physically, in all ways. And I think all this exposure is a little [00:42:00] worrying. However, I'm proud of her for, you know, Giving up social media and sticking to it. I think that that was like a very healthy choice. The only reason that we know about her hair is because her makeup artist for her special, I guess, that she's taping posted. Yeah. Nick: But Annie: like, Nick: it could go the way of Who also does Annie: your favorite, Trisha Paytas. Nick: I love Trisha Paytas. Doesn't like, the other way it could go though, is like, she keeps on doing plastic surgeries and she sort of becomes. You know, like, Larsa, unrecognizable Larsa Pippin goes on, you know, like, Celebrity Big Brother, and then does The Surreal Life, and then does Help, I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here, you know, Welsh, you know, Wales edition, and it just gets really dark in that way but I hope that doesn't happen, because she does seem like a really, uh, Sweet person. I love her. [00:43:00] Annie: We, I mean, I think we forget sometimes I was listening to sexy or no. Yeah. Sexy unique bonus episode, I think. And they were talking about how Jax and Brittany from not even Vanderpump anymore, but from the Valley, the grade down from Vanderpump rules, if you can get any lower when we're invited to the white house correspondence center and how that's so like such a sign of the times. I was thinking, it's funny because there was this phrase at Glossier for casting that I think was a backhanded compliment to me at one point to like explain like why there were four models in the first campaign. No, sorry, there were three models in the first campaign and one real girl. Guess who was the real girl? And it's because, it's because there's, we, there was this thing that we coined for casting called the, that could be me effect. [00:44:00] And I think Vanderpump Is, and I think glossy is actually not that at all. I think it's still like very aspirational and not saying, and that's not a compliment to myself. I'm just really, I'm just realizing why Vanderpump is so successful and it's become such, Oh, it literally Nick: could be, because it Annie: literally, yeah, it's like, cause most Americans are. Nick: The, I agree. Like the, and like I, on my favorite bitch sesh, they talk about this all the time that like their favorite real housewives have, like, there's a few qualities that, you know, like a really. Amazing real housewife has to have and like chief among them is being rich. Like I want wish fulfillment. I want to see you having a butler and making and making your driver call you countess and you know, like not knowing where your credit cards are because someone always holds them. Like I want to see that out of touch level of wealth. I want to see big houses with like, you know, Versailles, [00:45:00] Elitism level elitism. I want to see elitism. I want to see out of touch levels of that right the minute you're in a valley village apartment complex with like those renter countertops that we've all had or have then and like it's a one bedroom apartment with three kids Annie: They call it vertical blinds unsexy unique which is just so perfect however i do think vertical blinds in the right mid century home can be very Nick: chic no but i it is it is a show that really makes you feel like Annie: So what I did was I asked, I did reach out for comment from my brother, who is a white horse, white horse, who has been to the White House Correspondents Dinner. He was actually a recipient of the White House Correspondents Scholarship in 2016, because he is a journalist. And he said he had a very hot take, which he told me I'm not allowed to repeat. [00:46:00] But his next hot take was, Cause I asked, what do you think about, I was like, when you, in 2016, it was the Obama administration. And I said, who are the most famous people in the room? And all he remembers, which is so fucking annoying is Tony Romo, which you don't even know who that is, do you? Nick: He dated Kristen Cavallari. Annie: Jessica Simpson, maybe both, but that's exactly how you know who he is. Nick: Jessica Simpson. Yep. Annie: That's how you know who he is. Otherwise, who gives a fuck? But anyway, there were, there were legitimate celebrities there and now it's Jackson, Brittany, and he did say, I have to give him some credit for this. He said, I do think it's weird that Jackson, Brittany both went after the divorce. Which I was not expecting. Nick: They went together? Annie: I'm more like shocked that he even knows, One, who they are, Two, that like, they've recently Nick: met. The thing about Jax and Brittany, Is like, yes, there is, you know, Some of the cast [00:47:00] members on The Valley 100%, it could be, you know, All that's missing, from any one of us, Being on The Valley, is the camera. Literally. There's not, it's not talent, It's not, You know, a certain aspect of our lifestyle. It's not an interesting personality quirk that we have that makes us particularly like watchable. I will say Jax, Brittany, and I'm going to put Kristen Doughty in this category as well, are phenomenal. Like they're stars. They're just stars of a different type of TV, which is this quote unquote, like unscripted reality thing. But like Jax, Annie: I think that they lack. They lack the shame gene, right? Is that what's missing? It's, Nick: they lack the shame, but lots of people lack the shame. They're all, they're funny and they're quick. Like, you know, as, as seemingly sort of like dense as they are, they're able to, a story moving, and they know, They sort of have this like [00:48:00] intuitive ability to like produce, you know, self produce an episode kind of, I think, like, I think part of the reason why Lisa Rinna didn't work ultimately is because it, you, you could see her working too hard. Like with Jax and Kristen, you can't, can't see them sweat. Brittany, Annie: Mima, Nick: do you remember like Brittany's family and the fact that, Mema's Beer Cheese, shout out to Danielle on Bitch Sesh, but like, I guess at Jax's bar in the valley, one of the things on the menu is Mema's Beer Cheese. Can't make that up. Annie: See, that's, that is brand consistency. Yeah. Bella needs to take note. No, the Memaw thing's so fucking funny. I think everyone from the south had a memaw somewhere in their fam or a mamma. I think I had a maw maw Grace.[00:49:00] Nick: So we, I think last week we made reference to how hot the r no kids are. Okay, so the R nos, the, the children of the richest person in the world, and Sam Hayek's husband. Uh, Bernard Arnault are ones hotter than the next. And they're also the richest kids in the world. Guess who, um, was spotted with Frederick? Frederick, Lisa from Blackpink. Annie: La Lisa! Nick: I'm just like, get it. I love that for her. I love the love that. Annie: And there's rumors she's like signing with CAA, she's gonna break into Hollywood. Nick: LVMH or Bernard Arnault now owns CAA. Annie: No way, really? I didn't know that. Nick: He bought it. He was like, I like it. [00:50:00] Annie: I'll take two. Oh, only one? All right, I'll take it. Nick: Oh, geez. Annie: Fascinating. Also, we had some readers write in that like, about gossip saying he also fathered. Linda Evangelista's child? Nick: I don't know if that's gossip or it's confirmed, but Amazing. Annie: They were, they were, they were convinced it was real. We, we're not as dialed in to that world but obviously our readers are, which is very impressive. I assume that they're all prestige beauty patrons. Anyway, the biggest story, Nick, is actually, Yeah. Nick: Yeah. Annie: You know, put your serious cap on so we don't say anything stupid. Okay, yeah, Nick: changing gears, changing tones. The brand Euphoria makeup brand that I thought, I didn't know that it was popular because it just sounded like such a pandering name. Like, how can you sell a brand called Euphoria to the Euphoria [00:51:00] generation? Without raising an eyebrow, apparently you can't, or you can until you can't because they were, the brand was receiving a lot of criticism in the last few years, I guess, whenever they launched about their lack of inclusive foundation shades, like they're, they had really limited shades, especially on the darker end of the spectrum. And so literally. It feels like some person was just like, whatever. Threw some black pigment. This is actually what happened. Threw some black pigment in their foundation base. Only black. Pure black. And launched it as the deepest shade. Annie: Like it was almost like they were trolling. Nick: Oh, it was a race, it's, it's, it's like a, it's, it's giving like, I don't give a fuck. Annie: It's literally, it's like they, they took it, I'm using literally literally right now what they [00:52:00] said you want the you want dark foundation. We're literally going to give you the darkest that Nick: it's like go fuck it's like go fuck yourself. We're not really going to worry if this is a color that people are because it's actually like Vantablack, which is like the blackest black, you know, it's not a color that people come in but like we're not even going to like make it warm make it cool. You know, we're not going to give in like we're just going to make it black and this What have, you know, probably flown under the radar for a second had some of TikTok's best beauty creators, including some with darker skin tones, take to, to the talk and do swatching and express their disappointment in particular. My face Annie: is the black face paints or the Youthphoria Foundation. And Nick: a creator called Gloria. Compared black face paint to the euphoria foundation 1 side. She painted in black [00:53:00] face paint 1 with the euphoria foundation. And you really couldn't tell the difference. And then the biggest tick tock cosmetic chemist, Jevon Ford did a little further digging and he didn't have to even dig that deep. This is a very shallow little, you know. Scratch of the surface. He had to do read Annie: the ingredient list, the ingredient Nick: list and the only pigment, you know, so all the other imagine, you know, all the other shades in this foundation range have a little bit of red, a little bit of yellow, you know, some white and whatever this one, the only pigment, the only color was black and what Javon Ford says in his tick tock takedown or not even takedown, but like expose is like, you don't even, Use black to create brown because it turns gray like in color theory. It's like a, you know, you start with colors to make the darkest shades. Annie: Yeah, there's never, I don't know if it's possible to make a skin colored product using only one. [00:54:00] shade of pigment because that's why there's like undertones and Nick: right. Annie: Like we, Nick: and it just felt like it was it obviously was such an obvious, not obviously where you're using literally, literally, and I'm using obviously, obviously it felt like a fuck you. I mean, I feel like it just felt like a fuck you. It feels like a fuck you. It feels like a, and it's whether the fuck you is intentional to the people who are. Are complaining that there aren't darker shades or whether the fuck you is. Fuck you. We're not even going to put any effort into this because we don't really care. Annie: And did you it gets crazier every time I see more details about this scandal, which it has to really be a scandal for a shade range. Outrage story to actually even break through because. It happens so often that there's just not a good shade range for people of darker skin tones. Like, literally once a week, a new product will come out [00:55:00] that didn't hit the mark didn't hit the mark. But this is so egregious and they had a, um, as you know, all brands do now a grid of all these smiling people wearing their foundations across the full range. Except that shade that shade just had a swatch in the grid of faces further proving the fact that no, they couldn't even find a model for this shade and they and I guess they tried to do a model casting and everything and they couldn't find somebody that was like, literally black, like the color black. It's just, it kind of blows your mind. I don't, um, Yeah, I feel like even if they miss the mark on going deep enough, it would have been better than launching a black foundation. And obviously, and I wanted to talk to you, Nick, about, because I was looking and Euphoria, this has been going on for a few days now, right? And Euphoria hasn't responded. They haven't released a statement yet. Nick: You [00:56:00] know, I feel like they did release a statement. Annie: I mean, on their, on their Instagram, I don't see anything. They posted the last time they posted was, Nick: oh, okay. She deleted her initial response. Annie: What was the initial response? God, they had to delete it because I was going to ask, like, if we, okay, let's put our crisis PR hats on. Like, what would we do? Or what would we advise them to do? We wouldn't put ourselves, we wouldn't get into this situation. We can let's just. Nick: Okay, let's see, it says, in a now deleted Youthphoria founder Fiona Ko Chan said in a now deleted initial response at the time it was a limited launch as, quote, proof of concept that the product would succeed. Meaning, like, if it sells, then we'll actually put some effort into it. Annie: But what does she mean, at the time? Because they, didn't they have to extend the shade range of this product already? Nick: Yes, correct. When the line first dropped Shade 600, the darkest offer did not have a photo Euphoria [00:57:00] posted a TikTok video of Founder Chan's Quest to find a model. This is on an article on today.com. I'm super stressed because I need to find a model for our darkest shade of euphoria Foundation. Chan says in the video, she eventually found a subject for Shade 600 at a mall in Dubai, posting a photo to the site. Annie: So they had to go to Dubai to find somebody that. They could kind of say this foundation. I just, I don't know. Nick: Well, no, and that I believe. Oh, yeah, it's, I mean, it's a mess. So they, I guess they haven't now really responded. Annie: I thought Nick: And they also went on Shark Tank, which is interesting. Annie: Shark Tank recently did a look back at one of their like success stories and it was about euphoria on like their most recent season. So it's kind of, oh, awkward. I thought but I thought he had, Nick: Oh, she did do an apology video. I just wanted to come on and say I'm extremely sorry. When I first started Euphoria [00:58:00] two years ago, all I wanted to do was create a safe space where individual beauty could be celebrated. And unfortunately, with our latest launch, we just fell short of that mission. Annie: Where is it? Nick: Oh, and then she deleted that. Annie: Was she wearing a hoodie? I'm crying. I'm sorry. I don't mean for it to sound like I'm like She Nick: said she'll be, she said that she'll be meeting with community leaders to figure out the best way the brand can improve. What? Annie: Just meet with the I don't Nick: think it takes, I wouldn't, I wouldn't Annie: Just hire a cosmetic consultant. Nick: Community leaders are being Financially compensated for that meeting. I'm okay with it, but if not, there's a much faster and easier way to get clarity on The issue. Annie: Yeah, what community leader is gonna be like actually you need to use like an undertone of like this red pigment and like Nick: Yeah, it's not this is it's it obviously Annie: Okay, well, at least we know now Nick: light skin supremacy, but like, it is not a community. This is a product development issue and a lack of interest in [00:59:00] appealing to, Annie: I think with this incredibly like Nick: acknowledge. Annie: Yeah. And I think with this incredibly like, this incredible bungle of a response to this dumb situation they found themselves in. I think we can assume that they just have somebody who kind of just doesn't know what they're doing, like running the ship there. Nick: Oh, okay. I like your question though. Like what? Okay. So what would we, what would you do? Annie: So there's three, this is three, Nick: you have to really, oh, this is blows up on Tik TOK. First you see Gloria Gloria, and then you see Javon Ford and you're like, Annie: okay, hold on. Nick: And your investors are like, you need to release a statement right now. Annie: Okay. There's three rules of crisis management. And this is coming from somebody I hate, so. Scott Galloway. Acknowledge the problem. The top guy, oh, why do I have bubbles? Oh my god, because I did a thumbs up. Yeah. Okay, acknowledge the problem. And then the top guy has to take [01:00:00] responsibility and get out, get out in front of it. Before it, like, blows up and gets bigger. And then, you need to overcorrect. And I agree. Well, maybe not. Nick: Okay, so what would you do? Annie: So she Nick: needs So, okay, I just turn on the camera. Go. Annie: Wait, can't You're Nick: the founder of Youthphoria. Annie: No, I mean, I would have No, I'm not going to get on without having a plan of action. That's what she She didn't Her plan of action was, I'm going to talk to community leaders. Like, what What apology did you copy paste that from? Like, she needed to say, I have paid for this. What was his name? The product that Mr. Ford, the chemist, Nick: we Annie: have hired him on a, Nick: he named Annie: his price and we were paying him to consult on how, on our shade range. And we're pulling this offensive product immediately. It's no longer available to did that. We're [01:01:00] refunding anyone who bought it and we're disappointed did that. And and by the way, they should have already reached out to all these people. They should have already done all of this. And then they'll release a new shade and they can turn it into a positive, just like every other brand that has found themselves in a similar situation. Not every other brand, but a lot of brands have gotten themselves out of like a similar sticky situation before, but this is pretty bad. And her response was made it so much worse. I mean, well, I mean, Nick: yes, I agree. And I'm not at all excusing any of it. I think that it also does show that this whole founder culture. She's like, how old is this person? What experience? What life experience does she have? What crisis communications experiences you have? She might have like raised money from fucking Yeah. You know, Mr. Wonderful or whatever his name is, or, you know, whatever on Shark Tank, but like, just because she has a brand does not make her a leader, does not make her, there's no [01:02:00] inherent gravitas to the position of being a founder like that. I feel like is like the toxicity of founder culture is like, I, she just came, she just, she just shat out a fucking thing. And like. Doesn't know what to do or say is just making things for no reason to make money and become famous. Annie: We always celebrate founders for simply getting free money for raising money. Suddenly they're like they're the most genius, like business strategists you've ever met. They have the best ideas. They're like, because they've convinced people with too much money to give them some of it. Nick: Who has their job have to spend it. Yes, Annie: exactly. And so, yeah, I think that that's one of the big problems with like founder culture and like the founder discourse. Like it was one of my big rules at soft services was that we don't talk about, like we don't make it, we don't do press around raising money. That's not impressive. That has nothing to do with [01:03:00] body care. Sorry. You know? So like, why are we talking about it? We're not experts in raising money. We're experts in body care. Like. You know, and if people are going to know us as experts of anything, we want them, we want them to know us as experts in body care. And I've unfortunately, the founder of Youthphoria positioned herself as an expert in the vague space of beauty and being a leader and knowing, yeah, knowing what the youth wants, which clearly she doesn't because if she was dialed in with Gen Z and like how quick they are to react and get upset about things, she would have like been eight steps ahead of this and never would have let this happen in the first place. So, Anyway, I think Bella shouldn't feel yeah, Nick: just because you can raise money to start a brand does not mean that you're quality that you Have anything to say or are qualified It just means that you were able to raise money. Annie: Unfortunately, yes. And that's why too, like you've got, you have Like Nick: a really bad day. Annie: It, and it sucks because I think a lot of people when they think of like starting a brand, like [01:04:00] the playbook, the founder story. Is always something like in the worksheet of like, what's your brand messaging is something that you always have to figure out. And actually the founders don't really have to be a part of the story at all. Like take a back seat, like let the brand and the products. Unless, Nick: well, it's like, because a lot of the time, that's like the only thing there it's like, well, we actually figured out that if we bought this thing from China and we cut out the middleman, there's like not the sexiest story is that it's. I'm a woman and I'm creating, you know, cute dog bowls or, you know, whatever, you know what I, like, it's like that, that it's, I think the founder story became the story because Annie: there wasn't a story Nick: We got, well, yeah, because we got innovation confused with like price disruption, you know, so like, that's what DTC was, was like the same product. For less, right? And so there were all these like brands, copycat brands that were just like, [01:05:00] you know, Casper mattresses. It was like, you know, whatever, like all that shit. So it was like, okay, well, the only thing we can bring to this is branding. And part of branding is the brand founder story, right? So like branding became the thing that was the differentiator that could like be the make, you know, that was, that was your edge. You're that was your, you know, it was price and brand. Annie: But then, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I just think people and I and unfortunately, I'm not saying this is true for the euphoria founder I don't know her at all. But unfortunately, I think too There are a lot of founders that see it as a way of like to be a public figure, you know They're not an actress. They're not an actor. They're not, you know, they See it as a path to fame according to her Nick: linkedin. Guess what her other experiences? Annie: how You Nick: The only experience on her LinkedIn is euthphoria. Annie: What? I don't want to make this. She graduated Nick: from Dartmouth from Dartmouth in [01:06:00] 2013. So then no. And so then there has to be, we're missing she, well, she's taken out, you know, does it say after graduation, the econ major went to work in business development for a software startup. Annie: Okay. So she's a startup, Nick: which required. Which required travel to data centers in some of China's most polluted cities. She says the travel and pollution combined with her tendency to fall asleep in her makeup when she did wear it, aggravated her skin. These issues inspire her to find found Euphoria. This is Dartmouth alumni magazine. Annie: Yeah. That sounds like, again, it was taken from the like, worksheet of like your brand story. Like, what was the problem you were trying to solve? Like not every, yeah. Problem needs a brand attached to it like falling asleep in your I guess like I think that that messaging did work for that product For what like from what i've seen the positive things i've seen about the brand was like, oh you can fall asleep in it It's so good for your skin. I'm like, okay Nick: but it's like we as the media are part of the problem because i'm reading a glamour [01:07:00] magazine interview with fiona cochan and they're asking her what her morning routine is Annie: Another rule I had, like, we're not as founders doing interviews like that. Nick: No, but it's just like, it's like, you're not Steve jobs. Like you're not the Dalai Lama. I'm not interested. And you know what the answer is? Guess what? She starts her day with Annie: euphoria, Nick: a glass of water and she has coffee. Annie: Yeah, Nick: no, just water. And then she has coffee. Annie: But do you think that that, I don't know if that's like supposed to be the, give us 24 hours of your day. Like who, what magazine does that? For like, like very successful people. Nick: I don't even know, but it's like one, I, there's certain people who you have a curiosity about, but it's like, we've no, but no, I thought it was more of like a male founder kind of like, I'm, you know, like remember when Jack Dorsey, I think it was a Jack Dorsey interview where he like has this like insane, he wakes up at three o'clock in the morning and meditates for five hours and then has like, you know, Whatever, like a colonic [01:08:00] and as if that Annie: was the path to his success, which is not it at all. Like, that wasn't what he was doing when he founded Twitter. That's what he did after he had too much money to know what to do with it. So he has to fill his day with like, going in like the red light pod and eating sprouted. Whatever's and growing a Rasputin beard. Nick: Well, I guess in her defense, she has no beauty experience. Annie: That's not defendable. That's terrible. She Nick: was in enterprise sales. That's Annie: exactly the problem. Nick: But I know, but it, but it's our fault for giving her money to launch a brand. It's her Annie: fault and it's her investor's fault. Nick: She was in, but like to your earlier point, she was enabled by a system that rewards a business plan over experience, over conviction. I don't know, I've also heard the Annie: bullshit line, we invest in the founder. Nick: I mean, the way I would describe it is like I will not Annie: allow for it. Nick: If I, if I'm an investor, right? [01:09:00] And my job is to invest in companies and knowing that, like, really, the business model is like 1 in 10 will make me a profit will, like, make the whole thing profitable. I'm going to invest in the people that are so crazy that will not sleep, will not eat. Will not socialize, will not pay themselves, will do whatever they have to do to make the brands, like their company successful. Because like, I'm an investor. It's like, wouldn't you only invest in the thing that in your head, like ensures to the extent that you can ensure success? I'll take it. I would invest in like the craziest fucking people who like are not cool, are not interesting, do not have a lot of like friends and talent and side hobbies. I don't want someone going hiking on the [01:10:00] weekend. I want someone in the office like making me my money back. If I'm an investor, Annie: I'll take it one step further. And maybe there's exceptions to this rule. If they're like, if they have a special skill set that makes them uniquely suited to create a product that is needed by someone else. And like, Nick: but if they're not a heart, if they're not going to bust their ass seven days a week for no money, then Annie: I agree with everything you said. Yes. Yeah. I want that same checklist, but I think for me, if I have a zillion dollars to invest, they have to be a customer of their own product. Because so many times, and I'm talking generally about startups instead of not really in the beauty space, but there's so many people that that are founders of brands of products that customers, they don't even know products that like so many, honestly, like dorky, like white guys start like brands. Or invent a product or trying to solve a problem that is not really their own product They don't really understand what they're [01:11:00] doing the founder I think it's like founder of market fit is something some bullshit term that was like thrown around but it's true Like and I think I don't know I just speaking from my own I think that that when people Nick: but I also do think though that like if your job As an investor is to invest and give away money. And if you want to grow your business as an investor, you have to continue to raise your money, you know, raise your VC, you're going to raise your fund from other investors. And so if you like, I'd be the worst investor because I would never find people to, you know, like I'd never, because if you're looking for, if your criteria are to. Then you're not going to succeed at investing all the money you're supposed to invest so you can, you know what I mean? Like part of your job is to spend the money and give it to people. And that's why you probably have to lower your expectations. Like you would very quickly have to lower your standards to give away enough money. I'm Annie: talking about my personal money. I don't know. I could never be a VC. Nick: Oh no, I'm, I [01:12:00] mean, but like, I don't think people give away their personal money. Annie: Yeah, they do. Angels. Nick: Yeah, but like you have to be so rich to be an angel. Don't be Annie: rude I'm saying in an alternate universe where i'm that rich Nick: Oh true, which might Annie: happen for both of us very soon if we Keep Nick: wish on our lucky stars Annie: If the readers are doing their goddamn jobs and praying for us every night, they're our lord and savior. Jesus christ Nick: I have to go. I actually really have to go. I don't have a product of the week because I have to go. This has been a very long episode Here's Annie: what i'll do I'm going to do a very in depth review of victoria of my victoria and unboxing of my victoria beckham beauty products of which I bought Several. So you, but you have to be a Patrion. You have to be a patron. Nick: Patrion. com slash eyewitness beauty. We're produced by Jonathan Korman. We are edited by AJ Mosley. We will see you next week. Please subscribe to our Patrion. Love you. Mean it. Bye.