Caitlin Van Mol 0:01 This episode contains descriptions of violence and suicidal ideation. Listener discretion is advised. Not

Anthony 0:10 not like a butcher knife versus talking like a your tip a stereotypical chef knife.

Caitlin Van Mol 0:18 Anthony Zuko spent his early life in tillikum Washington, and had a pretty typical childhood for the first eight years of his life. What was your relationship like with your parents

Anthony 0:30 was good. They're very loving and caring. They both worked full time. From what I can remember my, my dad had always worked for Northwest Airlines when I was still a company. Specifically, he just worked on the tarmac. So I was always with my mom. And she was a chef. She worked at a Thai kitchen. So she would always bring me to work with her. And I would always be in the back. Reading books, coloring watching movies, and Yellow Kid, it was a pretty good child of

Caitlin Van Mol 1:05 both his parents, Tony and pronti, Sukkot were immigrants from Thailand, and both social butterflies. From

Anthony 1:13 what I could remember, my parents were pretty social. They had lots of friends in the tech community. So from what I can remember, you know, there were lots of weekends when they would have parties and sing karaoke, I always got involved with that, you know,

Caitlin Van Mol 1:32 what's your go to

Anthony 1:35 work at the time, you know, it was a bunch of time music. So I was just reading lyrics on the screen, the best I could. And more, so just dancing and holding a microphone. Actually singing.

Caitlin Van Mol 1:54 That was cool, as fun. As an eight year old, Anthony wasn't super aware of his parents marital problems, probably filed for divorce in December of 2003. But didn't move forward with it. A couple of weeks back together by February of 2004.

Anthony 2:12 My memory from back then was pretty spotty, but it didn't seem like up until that incident happened. You know, they were kind of distant from each other. So I think it was at that time, then. My father was starting to get really heavy on math. So once my mom was aware that she kind of wanted to make sure that we were safe.

Caitlin Van Mol 2:38 Did your parents bite at all before? That? They

Anthony 2:41 did? You know, they tried very hard not to fight in front of me.

Caitlin Van Mol 2:46 Were you ever afraid of your father? No, not really.

Anthony 2:52 My dad, he, you know, tried to do his best to teach me everything that it is to be a kid living in America. You know, go to sports events go out fishing, regular father son activities playing catch the whole night, you know, is even more unfortunate. Because if it weren't for the jocks, and I feel like you know, we would have had a pretty, pretty great relationship.

Caitlin Van Mol 3:20 Do you know anything about the start of his drug use or how bad it had gotten?

Anthony 3:27 The Start can tie but I do remember being in the back of this truck. So underneath and on the seat, you know, pop it up? And there I saw, you know, a bolo. Right. So it's just like a pipe and a bunch of pornography, the sitting right there. And that's when I was like, go figure things out a little bit. came to realize that yeah, this is we're in a sticky situation there. But there wasn't anything that there aren't any major situations or events that happened that led up you know, yeah, that were like major indicators. And it just felt like it was a high super super I one night had some intrusive thoughts disguised as demons come into his head and acted upon them.

Caitlin Van Mol 4:25 This is live to tell the podcast where I talked to some of the bravest people who have been through the most horrifying things and lived to tell the tale. I'm Caitlin van mol.

Caitlin Van Mol 4:44 Around 4am On October 22 2004, Anthony was fast asleep when he was woken by his parents having an argument.

Anthony 4:53 Do you remember, you know just waking up in the middle of the night and my dad was I was kind of just standing over the top of my mom and I were laying in bed. And it kind of seemed like they were already talking all the time I had woken up and it wasn't very long before he had attacked there. And he was, you know, holding a kitchen knife. So I, of course, you know, she just was in shock, and nothing to do but watch. So he eventually chased her around the house and cornered her and eventually stabbed her to death. And, and you saw it happen? Oh, yeah. So it happened. Crazy, obviously. Yeah, I didn't have any words. I know, I remember. My mother kind of screaming out to me, saying my name. And now it's just screaming bloody murder, which, you know, thinking about, it's really tough to talk about. But after that, he can't then realize you know that she wasn't moving or fighting. So he left her and I was just across the room. So they turned to me. And he decided to have me get up and go into the other room where there was another lay down. And he started asking you some questions. I don't remember too many. But specifically, just one question. And it was why I had bought my mom a set of knives. Across the street or somewhere there was like a garage sale. In my head. I was thinking that she's, you know, she's a chef and kitchen knives are essential to a kitchen. So as I didn't know what to say, but that was the only question before you kind of just like pick the kitchen off that he had his in his hand, you know, like meat, like chopping motion at my forehead, which is how I have that score. I have another scar that is also on the same side meant that my my left ear, he hit my forehead probably turned right. And then he did it again. Which is how I have this one. And then from there. They just went on to, to stab me. It went can tell you how many times more than five for sure. Through my stomach thread through had a lacerated liver. After he had stopped. He kind of just walked around the room. I'm guessing, just trying to assess the situation. And then he had walked out of the house, went into his truck, and then started drive way. So after you know, I'm just kind of laying there the whole time. I was still conscious, you know, even after you stopped step. Yeah, it was still conscious. But so I kind of just laid there silent as I could and trying to just play that, right. And I kind of just had these thoughts in my head that yeah, I was gonna die. And I was saying goodbye to, you know, friends that I knew from school and family. And while I was kind of having these thoughts, another thought popped up in my head. What felt like, just like another presents. I know, in other interviews that I have said that they look like angels. And I was the first thing that I had seen when at the same time I had heard, you know, you're not done yet. I was laying there on my back. And they looked like three beings. Giant, just silhouettes. And it was just for like a split second. I could tell you vivid detail, but like that was the presence that was there. Do

Caitlin Van Mol 9:06 you still believe that they were angels? Or do you have like a different interpretation of what happened?

Anthony 9:13 I would like to still believe it that angels i After moving in with my uncle, my uncle was a Southern Baptist Christian. So, you know, studying the Bible, and kind of just reassured me that what I had seen was it made sense based off of what is my new belief, because growing up with my parents, they were Buddhist, so I had no clue, you know what this thing was or now how to make sense of it. So yes, still, I still am I had I know it's it's a traumatic event. And you know, there could be a lot of skepticism behind that. But that's my faith and I stand by it.

Caitlin Van Mol 10:01 Anthony had to walk back to the room where his mom's body lay to get to the phone and call 911. Anthony told the 911 operator that his daddy had killed him with a knife, and asked if they could please send the army men or an ambulance. But then the call suddenly got disconnected. I

Anthony 10:23 could see outside, I was like looking outside while I was on the phone, and I could see that he, you know, his truck had come back. I knew I have so much time to get back into place. But it was that he had parked across the street. So that did kind of give me enough time because he was probably maybe a couple 100 feet, you know, from across the street and that to the to the house. So I had to put the phone back on the hook. I guess it was more of a stand. And, you know, drag myself back to the same spot that I was in, put myself in the same position. I think he came inside and kind of looked around and then went back outside again.

Caitlin Van Mol 11:03 Emergency services called back and Anthony was able to pick up the phone again. Anthony didn't give them the correct address. So first responders were doing everything they could to find him. They were

Anthony 11:17 actually kind of lost and confused. And they were asking that I would flicker the lights in the house on and off. I was able to do that. Next thing I know, I can see you know, police lights you hear sirens. Outside that point, I just walked up to the front door opened it saw a bunch of flashing lights. And I think I just collapsed.

Caitlin Van Mol 11:40 Police officer Mark eeks was the first to approach Anthony.

Anthony 11:46 And Mark was there as the first responder on scene. You know, he was the one that saw me as soon as I opened the door. I don't know if you've seen those interviews, but he described it as you know, the death stare basically with the look of death on on on a little kid's face collapse and I woke up probably a few minutes later and I was on the sidewalk. They move me onto the sidewalk to analyze my wounds and next thing I know we get into the EMT and now I'm past that point. Anthony's

Caitlin Van Mol 12:22 dad had actually flagged down the first responders from the front yard. He was apprehended immediately. And Anthony was rushed to the hospital. paramedic Jeff Calhoun was with him in the ambulance. I'm

Anthony 12:37 in the EMT going to the hospital. And Jeff knows he sees that my stab wounds were through and through, not on the surface, not just surface cuts. The knife went through my body completely through. Once they got me into the ER, the doctor surgeon whoever was in charge of stitching me up was just going to stitch me up on the surface. Yeah, super scary, considering I had a lacerated liver and was bleeding to death.

Caitlin Van Mol 13:12 Beyond that oversight, the surgery went well. And Anthony woke up in the hospital room with his aunt and uncle by his side. How did people like your aunt or any adult? Talk to you about what happened? Like while you were still in the hospital, so sort of like in the immediate aftermath? Yeah.

Anthony 13:36 Hey, they just blamed it on on the drugs. Like a kid that was you know, smoking meth, he said he seen some demons and the demons told him to kill your mother and try to kill you too. And they didn't try to sugarcoat it in any way I made it. They were also just as confused and mad, but the whole situation. So I think at the time, it was just more so that they were very thankful that I was still living and breathing. And even though I'd ask the question, it almost felt like a rhetorical question, because I know why. You know, but you still ask why? Because it's like, so messed up. Yeah. But I knew why. It's just still, how does it need to get to that point? You know, how does he start smoking that, you know, why? Why does he do that? You know, those are the questions. I guess that better. Yeah, still, I mean, it's just track addictions. Crazy, crazy thing.

Caitlin Van Mol 14:39 Pragnya sister Nancy and her husband were at the hospital when Anthony woke up.

Anthony 14:44 I was always a very quiet kid. You know, being an only child. I remember my aunt telling me all the time. You know, I never really cried. And so after that happened, and then I would always cry. Cry from my mom. But yeah, let's Your mom? Yeah, you know, they, they were just trying to be as comforting as possible, obviously, an eight year old kid, he's not gonna know everything about, you know why, but they did the best they could try to answer those questions and be supportive. And but yeah, it just felt like they were kind of betrayed.

Caitlin Van Mol 15:24 Yeah, I just can't imagine how that was for your aunt losing her sister.

Anthony 15:30 Yeah, you know, something that she's still struggling with. And it breaks my heart. Because I don't feel that she had gotten to that point of forgiveness of, you know, like myself. And it's almost like, the way that she lost her sister. The way that she talks about it's like, I almost forget that she was my mom, you know, it, she just felt so strongly about it. She's so tough to hear, because she brings it up all the time. At this point. It'll be like, Hey, if you talk to your dad, you know, you should. And then flips the switch says the, I hate him, I want to kill him.

Caitlin Van Mol 16:18 Anthony had to stay in the hospital for almost six months, from what

Anthony 16:23 I remember. I mean, as soon as I had woken up, there was a bunch of stuff that was already just like gifts, you know, flowers, you know, my classmates, they kind of put together like a collage, or book. And it was just like a get well, you know, I had a really close friend. And we were really super into ukiyo E. And he gave me like, some of his cards in there that some of his, you know, most prized cards. And I was like, oh, man, this is really cool. And so. And I was also seeing a counselor. And he didn't really get too much out of me at that time. But it was just more so just like, kind of talking about it. And he would have me play certain things. And I guess wanted to make sure that I was on track to be okay. But it was nice, you know, being in the hospital and, you know, trying to recover. So that was tough, but you felt taken care of. Yeah, definitely 100% taken care of, and that there was a lot of people out there that care, and a lot of support. Anthony

Caitlin Van Mol 17:27 also went on The Oprah Winfrey Show.

Anthony 17:31 She did so much behind the scenes to like, outside of just having us on the show, you know, now flew us out to Chicago had to stay in a really sweet Hotel. Did all of these events, you know, tours, museums. Yeah.

Caitlin Van Mol 17:50 It was cool. To have the first responders, paramedic, Jeff Calhoun, and police officer Mark IX took a special interest in Anthony,

Anthony 17:59 throughout the whole time of me healing, and they were always checking up on me, making sure I was okay. And even after I got out of the hospital, they were there. We would take tours of the fire department or police station over go on ride alongs. And they were just, they just loved me. They just wanted to be there for me. So they were just essentially a part of the family at this point. And they're like my dad's.

Caitlin Van Mol 18:33 I mean, it sounds like having sort of lost your nuclear family that so many people came to fill in those gaps. Yeah.

Anthony 18:46 Yeah. And more than I could even ask for like this is there's so many people, just so many people, and it's so cool. After

Caitlin Van Mol 18:56 Anthony was sufficiently healed, and his aunt and uncle were officially granted custody, they took Anthony back to their home in Florida. Did you talk to the other kids about what happened? I

Anthony 19:10 was very guarded about it when I was that that age. I always said it was a car accident. And anytime we would go to a swimming pool or the beach, I was wearing a t shirt. So then it was just so easy to just say it was a car accident, and then that's it. Yeah, there's not really much to go about.

Caitlin Van Mol 19:31 Is that how if they asked about your mom, how you said she died in a car accident?

Anthony 19:39 Yes, both both. I would just say both my parents passed away. Actually, I wouldn't even talk about my dad being like, yeah, he's passed away. And then I would actually talk about it. I would tell the truth to friends and kids that I felt were, you know, closer. Yeah. And then of course, you know, growing up up, and the age of the internet, kids, all you have to do is just google, google Anthony Seco. And then that was a lot of the time too. And you know, a quick duopoly saw. I'm so sorry.

Caitlin Van Mol 20:14 Growing into his teens, Anthony's feelings about what happened through darker and darker.

Anthony 20:21 It got to a point where Yeah, it was just so mad for no reason. And we were just at home living with my cousin's at the time, like I said, I I'm very quiet I keep to myself. So really bad trait of mine is bottling up emotions, right? So eventually, it's just gonna explode. That was an exploding night. I just took a baseball bat. And just, it was just sliding doors on my, my closet. And I just took the doors off the hinge and just broke it, just to relieve some anger. And I have had, you know, and this was when I was younger, in high school, like I did have suicidal thoughts. That was age in high school, but I haven't had anything like that at all. Yeah, sometimes I wonder if you know how people would be if I was, if I just disappeared. But then I realized that people would be pretty, pretty miserable and devastated. I'm sure. But yeah, that was brings me back.

Caitlin Van Mol 21:33 Did you seek help for your suicidal thoughts? No,

Anthony 21:37 I did not. That was something that I, I, I used my situation, I used that incident that night to kind of like, set myself back out of it. Like, what the heck are you doing, man? Like this happened already? Why? Do you want to just end it now? After all of that, for what? It would amount to nothing? You know, yeah. Would have been all in vain. So yeah, it still drives me. You know, I think about it. I'm like, a lot of people would say that, yeah, they wouldn't be able to handle that situation or handle life after this situation. And me being able to do what I do now. Whatever it is, I should be able to do it. Do it diligently if I if I want to and succeed in some capacity.

Caitlin Van Mol 22:30 Yeah, I'm all for, you know, living your life to the fullest. But I mean, just talking to you, I hope you don't feel like you have a responsibility to always be like the very best version of yourself. Because you almost died. Like you're allowed to be a person.

Anthony 22:52 Yeah, I know. I know. We're not perfect. We're not perfect. But yeah, I mean, just like, I'm my worst critic.

Caitlin Van Mol 23:01 Yeah, other than that one counselor, did you ever seek other therapy or counseling, anything like that I had

Anthony 23:09 one in high school, junior senior year. Sarah, amazing woman, very gentle and kind. And so I was a little rebellious towards the end of my high school years. Which caused me to believe I thought I was big Batman, so I could just leave the house and just land on my own. Just couch hopping. So I was doing that. And while I was doing that, by law in Texas, you're called McKinney vento. You're a McKinney vento student, right. You're a student that doesn't have a house or live at home or something. So they accommodate you with these regular things, just toothbrush, whatever, it's to be able to keep going to school. And also, I be able to have a counselor. And I could take a one period to go see a counselor. And that went on Yeah, for I think it was at least once a week, for the whole year. And it was great. Sometimes, I didn't talk about anything other than just regular life, sometimes a deep dive. I still have a contact, I'd love to reach out to the need to reach out to her and just tell her how much I'm thankful for. And that was pretty much it. I never, I never felt like I needed one or actually wanted one just because of how much I had already talked about it within my youth group already. Yeah. And my youth pastor and my pastor, so I was able to kind of just talk myself through my emotions and things like that already. But again, it was another great opportunity to have someone in my life that was able to guide me so thankful for her to

Caitlin Van Mol 24:57 he did eventually move on again with his aunt and uncle, and Anthony credits to other things for helping him during his dark teen years, the Lord and hardcore music.

Anthony 25:09 Wednesday nights after school, we had Bible study. So I was in a youth group with about 12 people. So I we were studying that was titled The way of the master was referring to Jesus Christ. And basically the way we studied the way that he would teach, you know, you'd look at the Gospels and what he had said, what he would say and what he said. And it basically stems from just like the 10 commandments. And what got to me was, you know, Jesus says, if you look upon another woman with lust, and you've already cheated, or committed adultery, and then obviously this woman got to me what's you know, even if you hate and look upon your brother with hate, than you've already committed murder in your heart, right? So I'm looking at that, like, Oh, crap, I'm guilty. I am guilty. If I said before a judge and judge was in the judge was God, he would say, I'm guilty. I also listen to a song after that, just to kind of put me at ease. Music has always been something like that for me. song that I listen to. This is from

Caitlin Van Mol 26:22 a hardcore band. Yes. When I think calming, I think hardcore. Yeah,

Anthony 26:26 right. August Burns Red song's called prevision. The Prime Minister's listening to metal, it's just hardcore guitars and screaming like you wouldn't be able to understand. But then I'm looking at these lyrics. And I hear them. And it kind of backs you know, that lesson that we learned in the way in the master that we're learning the word say, you know, the lyrics, I'm the deceiver, I'm not getting any better. I'm the thief, the whore, the murderer. Sounds like these, you forget to remember who you are the way up is down. Truth is found when life throws you out and kicks you to the curb. And then these next two lines are like, me broke down in tears. I'm just as much the problem as the main behind bars he did with his business, what I do in my heart. And then it goes into this nasty breakdown. And I'm just like, cry to be genuine. But I

Caitlin Van Mol 27:22 mean, yeah, sir. Like, it feels like that was written for you. Right?

Anthony 27:27 It really does, to really help pave the way to finding forgiveness from my father. And, you know, after I feel this conviction, I read these lyrics. And I start to think I'm like, man, it is really easy to just not have any hate in your heart. It's like poison, you know, it affects everything else, and how you see things and go about your way of life. And I didn't want to, I didn't want to be like that, you know, I didn't want people to, you know, have conversation with me or interact with me. And be able to tell that, oh, yeah, that guy has been through some stuff. You know, the past is a part of me, but it's not who I am. I

Caitlin Van Mol 28:11 mean, when I was doing my research, and reading articles from like, you know, the 10 years later, whenever I was like, this gets so well adjusted. I don't think I would be I don't.

Anthony 28:27 It's not a I mean, that's pretty common reaction that I get. And again, I have to just attribute that to my faith and and how my aunt and uncle raised me.

Caitlin Van Mol 28:37 A few years ago, Anthony's on wanted to do a movie about the attack. It didn't work out. But the filmmakers asked Anthony to write a letter to his dad

Anthony 28:49 typed up a letter basically just told him okay. Yeah, I know, you know that you've messed up. For a long time. I've had a lot of anger towards you, and as I should, but I've come to a point in my life now that I have figured forgiven you, and I love you. I'm living my life as best as I can. You know, I have a girlfriend and I have a successful job, a career. And I hope that one day that once you get out that we can try to make amends and have a relationship because that's something that I would, you know, would like, before I die, he wrote back, and yeah, it was a very apologetic letter. I was very impressed with his penmanship. That's the first thing it looks like it's written in Thai, but it's English. It's very cool. Yeah. I don't know what my dad's been doing it but still was writing. So, man, I'm trying to remember this letter because there's just so much emotion. I'm sure and Uh, yeah, he was just very apologetic. It's very sorry. He's obviously glad, proud of, you know, the man that I've become. He also, you know, would like to continue writing and, you know, hearing more from me, but

Caitlin Van Mol 30:16 did you write him back?

Anthony 30:18 I have not, I have not written him back. I actually wanted to go see him. That was supposed to be the next step. And this whole process, but the request got denied. And that's because of me being the victim. I'm not supposed to have any contact. But I'm sure if I really tried hard enough, there could be an exception that could be made, just based off of because it's based off of conversation that I had with the chief of police sergeant up there. I don't know if it's, I'm a very bad procrastinator. I'll tell you that much. So things like this, that, you know, obviously have a lot of weight to it. So bad. Stuff like that.

Caitlin Van Mol 31:01 Yeah. How do you feel about potentially seeing him again?

Anthony 31:05 Oh, my gosh, there would be so much going on. feelings of joy. Fear, right. I'd be happy that he's out. Be scared of, you know, seeing my dad again, just because the last time I saw him, he stabbed me. The fear of also, you know, now that he's out, you know, what, what's gonna happen? Where's he gonna go? Release because now, you know, he's, he's out. And I don't have to, I guess, just be restrained by the law to talk to him. So yeah, she was so many emotions. But I think overall, I would be happy, because then it would be the start of a new chapter in my life. And his life, I'm sure to

Caitlin Van Mol 32:00 Anthony's dad, Tony Soto was sentenced to nearly 28 years in prison. His sentence runs to 2032. Anthony no longer feels he has to lie about how he got his scars, or what happened to his mom and dad. He uses his story to help people where he can. How do you broach the subject with new people you meet? If it comes up, like Hey, where'd you get that scar?

Anthony 32:31 Oh, yeah, it is so random. It happens. Whenever I feel like it, you know, some people ask Sure. And I'm like, do you really want to know? Now? I'll warn him. I'm like, you're not you're not prepared for? There's nothing that you could possibly imagine or think of what I'm about to tell you. So that, you know, yeah, that conversation when it goes up and down way. I was mom and dad or whatever. And I'm like, Well, I don't have my mom died like that, oh, well, what happened? Well, strap in, let me tell you, but most of the time, I always talk about it when I feel like it's an opportunity for me to help someone. And that happens all the time. Sometimes it is just something that I just come out and talk about when I feel like I have a connection with someone. At this point, it's not difficult, it's not difficult for me to talk about. It's just difficult for me to kind of deal with how people react to it. I guess at this point, I'm okay with it. I've accepted it. It's brand new breaking news to to whoever I'm telling it to. So just kind of making sure that, you know, even when I'm telling my story, I make sure that getting the point across like, I understand, this is where you're at in life. And that's really tough. And I, I sympathize with you. And if there's anything I can do now, because I've been in pretty bad situation myself. So this is how I think you can go about it.

Caitlin Van Mol 34:06 But if it's not in the context of you trying to help someone if it's just like, whatever, but then the burden of the comfort is on you to come through them. Yeah, hearing about this terrible story. Yeah. And then, yeah, you have to be like, I'm so sorry to tell you that thing that happened to me. Yeah.

Anthony 34:30 It's crazy sand. Yeah. You know, people just don't know what to say. Like, hey, you know, well, you know, it is what it is. And it's not like that's how you do me. So it's just the thing that's has happened and to be able to do exactly this and share my story to those that have struggled have survived or are in that exact situation of trying to survive. It's really cool and humbling because It's nice. There's not other, I'm not the only one, right? Fortunately, you know, I'm not going to, you know, there's there's still gonna continue to be more situations like this. So as long as I'm alive, and if there's anything that I can do to help to be voiced to stand up for domestic violence, you know, I'm all for it.

Caitlin Van Mol 35:19 Today, Anthony lives in Pennsylvania with his girlfriend, Chelsea. He currently works at a car dealership, but would love to pursue a career in music engineering. I

Anthony 35:32 graduated from the Conservatory of Recording Arts and Sciences in Tempe, Arizona, audio engineering school. Great school. So as far as that goes, like, yeah, I would love to be able to just work on music, but unfortunately, I didn't find a really good opportunity that I thought was sufficient for what I needed to I said, Hey, you know what, I'm just going to rely on what I know I can do is just talk to people and know I enjoyed the the car, the car business, like I'm a finance director now. So I'm in management, and there's still room for me to grow.

Caitlin Van Mol 36:16 Is there anything I forgot? That or we haven't talked about that you want to make sure is in there.

Anthony 36:22 Oh, if if this ever pops up, and if he's listening, my man, logic. I love that man's music. Seen them live like three times now. That'd be cool to hear from him. Shout outs to him love his music, Peace, Love positivity right.

Caitlin Van Mol 36:41 To speak to someone at the suicide and crisis lifeline call 988 the Lifeline is 24/7 free and confidential. You can also live chat with someone at 988 lifeline dot work

Caitlin Van Mol 37:02 this is live to tell. I'm Caitlin van mol. You can follow the show on Instagram and Tiktok at live to tell podcast. If you enjoy today's episode, please rate review and subscribe. It really helps the show. I'll see you in two weeks.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai