PB-E13 DISCUSS 041524-mast ===

Sarah Wayne Callies: [00:00:00] Okay fishes, welcome back to Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul. I'm Sarah.

Paul Adelstein: And I'm Paul.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And we have reached lucky number 13.

Paul Adelstein: That's right, episode 13. End of the tunnel, double entendre, if ever there was one, as Lincoln's execution is now only 36 hours away.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And he is stuck in, uh, ADSEG, which stands for administrative segregation, which is also known as solitary confinement.

Paul Adelstein: And the SHU. The SHU. Right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um. The SHU. This is a really, really, really exciting episode. We have a lot to talk about.

Paul Adelstein: Yes, we do.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Before the Kallistein Index, quick question.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: How are you today? We haven't said hi.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, I'm very well. Thank you for asking. Nice to see you. [00:01:00] How are you doing?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Uh, I'm really good.

Paul Adelstein: I didn't ask just because you asked.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That's okay. It's okay if you do. Um, life is great. And we're about to launch in real time so that the people who are listening know our actual podcast launches a week from tomorrow. Yes. So we are doing all kinds of amazing details.

Paul Adelstein: It's almost as tense. As Lincoln's impending execution, but,

Sarah Wayne Callies: yeah, that just plays in my house all

Paul Adelstein: day long.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Alright. Every time I turn around, I hear gong, I hear a bell, and I think I'm about to be murdered. Okay.

Paul Adelstein: Are you ready for the Calestine Index?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Absolutely. I am now ready.

Paul Adelstein: So, End of the Tunnel was written by Paul T. Schuring and directed by Sanford Bookstaver, premiered on November 28, 2005. Which I didn't look, but I have to imagine was Thanksgiving week and premiered to a whopping 12 million, 12.

18 million viewers.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Wow. [00:02:00] Um, can I just interrupt really quick? My production draft of this episode is dated November 1st. So that is four weeks between shooting and airing. Wow dude. That is bonkers, bananas, and nuts. Okay, sorry, coming back, um, the show's competition were our now usual suspects Las Vegas on NBC, Two and a Half Men on CBS.

Monday Night Football on ABC, where the Colts beat the Steelers, wow, 26 to 7.

Music: Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, um, the synopsis of the show from imdb. com reads, uh, the escape is about to go through when the team hits a stainless steel snag. Shhh, g Gonk, gonk, while Veronica is just a moment too late to get all the information she needs to prove Lincoln's innocence.

Paul Adelstein: And out there in the big bad world, the United Nations Climate Change Conference, what a hoax, finalized the Kyoto Protocol designed to curb greenhouse gas [00:03:00] emissions, whatever those are. And

Sarah Wayne Callies: fix climate change. Good job.

Paul Adelstein: Yes. That's glad that was taken care of. The House of Representatives renewed the Patriot Act so the CIA could know whether you were watching Prison Break or not.

And the Federal Trade Commission set a new deadline for the switch from analog to digital broadcasting. It's a fad.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, it'll

Paul Adelstein: never stick.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Uh, in the same week, the International Olympic Committee selected Vancouver as the host city for the 2010 Winter Olympics. A significant moment for the city in which I have done 100 percent of my directing to date and I live pretty close to it.

Um, in music, Chris Brown's Run It peaked on the billboard charts at number one. And in movies, the romantic comedy Just Friends starring Ryan Reynolds and Amy Smart was released in theaters. He was a flash in the pan. He'll never.

Paul Adelstein: He's not going to. He'll never stick. Is he, is that the fat suit movie? Do you remember?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I did not, in fact, watch that one. Wasn't that Shallow Hell?

Paul Adelstein: No, that was also a fat suit movie, but that's different. [00:04:00] Um, alright, let's get into it. I love it when the summary, it's kind of general, because to be totally honest, I don't remember all the twists and turns of this episode, so I get to be surprised all over again, although I remember a couple of the broad strokes, and this is a juicy one.

Sarah Wayne Callies: This is a juicy one. Yeah, I brought popcorn.

Paul Adelstein: But you can't eat popcorn.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Are you food shaming me? Why can't I eat popcorn?

Paul Adelstein: Because it's a podcast. Microphones, noise, podcast.

Sarah Wayne Callies: People don't want to hear me chew popcorn? They don't. I don't. I mean, I do, but I'm weird. I don't think our audience

Paul Adelstein: does. I will save the popcorn.

If we could be eating while we were watching, believe me. I'd be doing a lot of eating. I like to eat. Okay, fine. We'll just watch. All right. Let's go do the watch. All right, everybody. We'll see you over at the watch.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So this would have been, if we had not gotten our back nine order, this would have been the season finale, right?

Paul Adelstein: I don't think you can say that anymore. I don't think it's politically correct.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Hypovolemic?

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, no, we [00:05:00] don't say that anymore. The

Sarah Wayne Callies: hypovolemic community is

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, up in arms. Up

Sarah Wayne Callies: in Or they would be if they weren't hypovolemic.

Yeah, if they weren't If they could get out of bed. Stocky Botrys? I mean, that could be a character in a John McClane rip off of Die Hard.

Paul Adelstein: It's also particularly hard to act well and not make yourself sick. Yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: have you ever barfed while pretending to be sick? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's a bad day at the office.

Paul Adelstein: Barfing stories.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Barfing stories.

Paul Adelstein: Putting it on the list.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And. Wow.

Paul Adelstein: I'm, um, you said I have an ulcer. I think I have it too. That was very Did I hear you squealed at one point? No, I would never. No, I have a pet pig named Michael Swinefield.

Music: Oh, wow.

Paul Adelstein: I may have squealed a bit. I may have squealed. There's some squealy moments.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We will be right back and we're going to jump into this episode.

Paul Adelstein: Okay, we're back and I have a list of things to discuss. [00:06:00] Discussed? I have a list of things to discuss.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I have a list of things about which I'm disgusted. Can I start please with the really, really. Stupid one. Um, that I just looked up. So in between, we just re watched this together, took a little pee break, and I dug out my script because we were talking about stocky Bowtreece mold, which I thought would be hilarious for a fan competition.

You guys tell us.

Paul Adelstein: Which is what Michael says when they, when he's trying to delay the, the, the guards. He breaks a pipe and then they say, you're gonna have to clean this up tomorrow. And then he says, Uh, fine, don't worry about the stockies. What is it?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Stocky Bowtree Smold is what I heard.

Paul Adelstein: Belloq says, you're gonna clean it up right now, fishes.

And

Sarah Wayne Callies: what I wrote. Right, so they can be in there at nine for the escape, etc. So I looked it up. It turns out that it's Streptococcus Smold. At least that's what's in the production draft. So they said, I'm sure they said. [00:07:00] Streptococcus, and I heard stocky botrys.

Paul Adelstein: No, no, I heard stocky botrys too.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Did you?

Paul Adelstein: Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, well. So that's just

Paul Adelstein: made up is what you're telling me?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I don't know. I mean, it would be funny if

Paul Adelstein: Michael was so smart and he knew that Bella wouldn't know what the heck that was. And he just made up a scary, because streptococcus is you'll get strep throat.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Which could kill you.

Paul Adelstein: Sure.

Sarah Wayne Callies: But is treatable easily with antibiotics.

Well, and he

Paul Adelstein: would know what that was. It maybe wouldn't freak him out as much. Okay, we need to get to the bottom of this somehow.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Also, here's what I'm calling the fan competition. I, send us your best, who is Stocky Botris? What is Stocky Botris? Is it the horse that won the Kentucky Derby in 1913 and changed the fortunes of the family forever?

Uh, is it, you know, the name of a mold first discovered on Mars and brought back with the rover.

Paul Adelstein: And for a bonus, is Stalky Bowtrees some Prison Break character that's just off screen?

Sarah Wayne Callies: The whole [00:08:00] time.

Paul Adelstein: Like what is Stalky, who is Stalky Bowtrees?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Who is Stalky Bowtrees? Uh, DM us your answers to this. And we'll send you a Prison Breaking merch mug or something.

Paul Adelstein: It's my stripper name.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, now I want to see fan art.

Paul Adelstein: She has like a New, like, he has like a New, he or she has like a New Orleans, like, Boutrice is like B A U X. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay.

Paul Adelstein: All right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. Moving on.

Paul Adelstein: Yes, please. Oh my goodness. Um.

Sarah Wayne Callies: What else did you want to talk about? Something less stupid. So there was a,

Paul Adelstein: when we were talking to Karen Usher, we were talking about, uh, last time how the shows, the way that network television was structured was that you got an order of 13, and then in success, oftentimes, you would get a back 9, so there'd be 22 episodes.

In a show like this that is so heavily plotted, if you're gonna do 13, 13 would be the [00:09:00] season finale. So they were kind of writing towards this being a season break cliffhanger, not the end of the show. So that I would assume, I mean, of course they could adjust that, but like you said, they were writing this four weeks before it was airing.

Just crazy.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I mean, that's practically live television. Yeah. I wonder if If Fox had not ordered a back nine, if the episode previous to this does not end with Lincoln going into the shoe, and they in fact escape in this episode, right? Like, that's one way that the season could have ended. So there

Paul Adelstein: is no, there is no, uh, steel dead end, like that they, he does get him to the shoe.

Or sorry, he does give him the cross. He takes the drug, he gets to the infirmary, and they do get out.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And out they go.

Paul Adelstein: And out they go. So here's my

Sarah Wayne Callies: In the escalade.

Paul Adelstein: That's very interesting. It's always interesting to see like where was the [00:10:00] adjustment made to continue the season plot wise. Here's my question.

Was he always going to give him that pill to get him to the infirmary?

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, I don't think so.

Paul Adelstein: Then how was Lincoln, oh, because Lincoln was just going to be on PI with them.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, I think Lincoln, I think the previous episode would have ended with Lincoln not punching the guard.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, they would have been in the break room together.

The Lincoln is on PI. Okay, so it's a cut, it's an emergency.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's a contingency plan. Oh, because

Paul Adelstein: they have to get into the infirmary, he's already in the infirmary, they're actually coming up to him. Got it. Right. Got it, got it, got it, got it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right, right, right. Although it's always possible that part of the plan would have been for Michael to give Lincoln that, uh, that pill in PI, right?

And gone, take this at eight o'clock. At nine o'clock. They'll take you to the

Paul Adelstein: infirmary.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Right.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, here's my question. So does Michael really, oh, he does decide, okay, we are going to do it tonight. Because there's this, there's this huge tension in the beginning of the [00:11:00] episode, like we're not going without Lincoln.

Music: Mm hmm.

Paul Adelstein: And then it's, well, I can get him to the, boy, I love the cutting the thing out of your skin thing. That's amazing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's, It's bonkers because there's also, in my mind, this is, we have not talked to a writer about this. This is just my conjecture. There's a version where Sucre says, I don't have a razor blade.

And it's like, does he chew it out? Like there's gotta be like, I, and I tried to tell him where,

Paul Adelstein: where, where Lincoln's like, I don't know, I don't need a cross. Totally. Or you just put it around his neck

Sarah Wayne Callies: or whatever.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: On the electric chair. And also

Paul Adelstein: the fact that like the, I mean, we're just being idiots because.

Why not? One of

Sarah Wayne Callies: the

Paul Adelstein: great joys of Prison Break is that there are a whole bunch of things that are obviously, as Karen Usher said, totally impossible. Um, we're just going to keep referencing Karen Usher, who was our, is a wonderful writer and was our guest on the last episode, but she said things like, oh, we did an incredible amount of research.

Um, [00:12:00] prisons and the structure and we actually stuck to the physical plant, but things like how electricity work, we weren't really interested in. I love that. I like, for instance, Sucre's mother's crucifix has a secret compartment in it.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And Sucre's has a crucifix, I guess. I guess they would allow you to have religious stuff.

Sure,

Paul Adelstein: but then it has a secret compartment in it that you can get a pill and a note.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well.

Paul Adelstein: 8 8 10.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I, okay, I would say it didn't, but it's worth it. And he hollowed it out. So Michael hollowed it out. Somewhere there's a scene where Michael is He's

Paul Adelstein: hollowing out it and it breaks and he's

Sarah Wayne Callies: like, fuck,

Paul Adelstein: oh yeah, no he's

Sarah Wayne Callies: desecrating Sucre's mother's crucifix and he's like, this is, this is awful.

We're not doing that. You said something

Paul Adelstein: that Nick Santora said to you, about what? Yeah. Nick Santora was [00:13:00] another one of the Prison Break writers.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, we were talking about, about the sort of accordion of, a lot happens in an episode, a little happens in an episode, we know we have to get to here by the end of the season.

And he said to me once, I will be honest, there are some episodes where it feels like we're stretching the taffy a little thin. Uh huh. Uh huh. And I remember that image of, like, stretching the taffy a little thin. Because it's really true, like, there are some episodes where so many things have to happen.

Like the last one, and like this one. And then there are some episodes where it's like, well, all we really need to have happen is this one thing. Well, the last episode

Paul Adelstein: was a Taffy episode because it was like You went from A to X, and then you end up back at A. So in a way, like, all this shit happens, but in terms of the overall story of getting out of prison, they're in exactly the same [00:14:00] place they were.

It's

Sarah Wayne Callies: almost like a one off.

Paul Adelstein: But yeah, they do that a lot in this show, where you, where you don't know if this is important or if this is a dead end. And that's kind of part of the fun of Prison Break, right? Like, is Michael, like, Here's a black dot. Does it mean something or does it not mean something?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, I mean, a little bit like setting up C Note's whole phone call to replace Abruzzi's people, right?

Like Abruzzi's not there, so his plane isn't going to be waiting for them for the escape. So, you know, it sets up a backup escape and there's a whole thing about it, which of course in the end doesn't matter because they don't escape. And so But I believe

Paul Adelstein: those guys come

Sarah Wayne Callies: Do they?

Paul Adelstein: I don't remember. I thought maybe that's still how they get out.

But yeah, just some added tension, right?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. And, you know, and the beautiful C note, like all of a sudden you see the man he is, the father he is, the husband he is, and the enormous lie he is telling.

Music: Yeah. [00:15:00] That rather

Sarah Wayne Callies: than being incarcerated in Fox River, he is in fact serving overseas in Iraq. Oh, sorry.

Paul Adelstein: In Kuwait.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You're right.

Paul Adelstein: Uh, uh, which takes, actually takes us nicely to the next point that I wanted to make that even. I mean, I guess maybe this goes in with stretching the taffy, in that Prison Break, for all the twists and turns, and it's so plot driven, it does, you know, you don't just hear, C Note has a family, you don't just have exposition of him saying, I gotta get out of here, fish.

I got a little girl at home. They take the time to, I mean, that's a two minute scene. It's a long one. It's a long scene. And beautifully,

Sarah Wayne Callies: beautifully, beautifully. And you know,

Paul Adelstein: it's like a reveal, reveal, reveal. You get a reveal of the daughter, and then he says, I'm coming home, put your mother on the phone.

Mm hmm. And then you realize, oh, she's being lied to as well. The Iraq postcard. Yeah. And it like, it makes his, it then like, you reverse [00:16:00] engineer seeing what C Note has done to this point, and you see it in a different light. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. In a similar way with Hale and Cullerman, when, you know, You know, when Kellerman goes to see, you've seen Danny Hale having a crisis of conscience and he makes his decision at the end of the previous episode.

And then you see he and his wife, she's pregnant, their leave, that all has real emotional weight to it. But when Kellerman shows up at the door and she's like, Oh, hi, Paul, like that they know each other, that they've obviously been part of each other's lives for a long time. And then that Danny says in that scene, we went to the academy to get like, there is They take the time to not just make reference to, but like, there's, there's backstory that you get some time with.

And uh, I [00:17:00] mean, I guess from the writer's perspective, if you're stretching the taffy, that is good to fill space, but I think it adds dimensionality in a thing that, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I don't want to hit that too hard. When there's a, I know think it's sort of funny when he, I think the way he said it was sort of a joke, like they, they did have.

Of course. All shows have to do that. But

Music: it does,

Sarah Wayne Callies: well and you know the other thing I love about it is it gets us out of, all of a sudden you're like, ooh, you're in Hale's house, you're in, yeah, uh, you're in Sinnod's house. And. You know, I mean, I said this when we were looking, when we were doing the watch party, but I think you work with more actors than any other actor on the show because you're interacting with all these people, whereas the rest of us are like working with one or two, you know, or, I mean, Even the Fox River 7, right?

There's, there's not that many people that they can interact with because they're in the first

Paul Adelstein: few episodes, they're not meeting new [00:18:00] people. We do meet Michelle Forbes in this episode. We do meet Michelle Forbes. She becomes a pretty big player in the, in the show.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And she sort of takes over for Danny in some ways.

Paul Adelstein: And kind of, like, uh, supersedes me soon, I think.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm hmm. So, wait, tell me, going back, I want to hear more about that scene between you and Danny, who was also playing Danny. I'll tell you, it was a

Paul Adelstein: Friday night, it was very late, we were out in the, you know, downtown, and those scenes have a meta thing going on, because he, it's his last scene.

Music: You know, it's like when

Paul Adelstein: you die on a TV show, you go away. You're actually saying goodbye. You're also like, I don't have a job. I mean, there is a lot of like, you know, in shows like this, people do flip through scripts and say like, oh, good, I'm alive at the end. And I don't know, I don't remember if we ever have Danny on, we'll talk to [00:19:00] him about it, but.

You know, you get these jobs, a job like that, like, I knew how many episodes I was doing. He didn't. It was like a week to week. Oh, you know, I'd call him and say, Hey, you're in, you're in episode five, you're in episode seven. Great. Great. And then it's like, uh, the killing episode, whatever. I'm sure they, they, he was doing a lot of theater at that time.

So I'm sure that you needed a heads up so he could schedule his life. But, um, there is a bittersweet, like, after that scene, and I know that it was the last scene he shot in the episode, you know, you stand up and they, and the first AD puts his arm around him and says, everybody gather around, this is a series wrap on Danny.

And everybody applauds. And then, you know, he, Danny and me and Jen Kern, who played his wife, who's a theater actor that we've known forever, we went to the old town ale house and had a kind of farewell to him. And, um, yeah. Which is kind of a well known actor bar in Chicago in Old Town. And uh, you know, it was bittersweet.

I loved working [00:20:00] with him. And so it, it is helpful in that it imbues those scenes with the like, you're saying goodbye to this person.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And you know, it's funny, the moment I often feel in those scenes. scenes. And usually for me, they're at the end of a show. Um, but not always. The end

Paul Adelstein: of the run of a show or the run of an episode?

Sarah Wayne Callies: The end of a run of a show or the end of a season. You know what I mean? Like you never know if you're gonna get canceled, you're gonna get picked up, whatever. But whatever it is, you know, that you're right. The first AD puts their arms around you and goes, Hey, this is their last night. The, the crew, you know, responds how they do.

Usually they clap and it's really sweet. Sometimes it's Friday night at the end of a long week. They're like, you're like trudge back to pack down their trucks. But Then you go back to your trailer and like, to me, those are the really interesting moments in life where you're like, this thing just happened, but also you still go through the motions of life.

Like you take [00:21:00] your clothes, you fold them, you put them in the closet, you look at yourself, you clean your, you know, your stuff out of the trailer and you go, Oh, well, you know. Another suitcase in another haul, like, here we go.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. Carney

Sarah Wayne Callies: people. It's interesting. It's very, yeah, it's, it's intimate because you, it's just that moment you have with yourself.

Um.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. And there. I have a little ritual. I have a couple little rituals I do to say goodbye and stuff like that. Do you? Yeah, um, I also think that it's interesting, and I know that you mentioned earlier that it was award season time, or that like, I think we had just been nominated for People's Choice Awards or something, and you know, 12 million people watched this episode.

So this is episode 13. So I will also say, a lot of times when you make a film, certainly, and these days when you make a TV show, a lot of times you make a lot of it in a vacuum.

Music: Mm hmm.

Paul Adelstein: Like the fact that this was written four weeks before it aired. Yeah. I mean, we were getting to [00:22:00] do it and see it. Quickly.

A lot of times you make something, you don't see it for a year. You don't see it, you're separate from it. And I do remember, this is the first experience, I had made a TV show in Vancouver, actually, we did 13 episodes. And it ended up airing two years later and just getting burned off, like you had no connection to it in that way.

This was the first time I experienced something where this show was a big deal. And there's a real excitement about that, obviously the show's a success and everyone's feeling cool and good and their friends are excited and it's good for your career, but also from a storytelling, I'll never forget this, from a storytelling perspective, you're like.

This is going to blow people's fucking mind. But I remember reading this script and being like, oh, it's a cool, crazy moment for Kellerman, but I also knew that people out there [00:23:00] were going to be really affected by it. And that is such a cool feeling, and you're going to get the satisfaction of it. Pretty quickly because we're shooting it and it's gonna be out in a month

Sarah Wayne Callies: and it okay So a couple things about that number one, I think this was the last episode that aired in 2005 I think we had December off to catch up and came back.

So in some ways this was a giant cliffhanger

Paul Adelstein: Oh, so this was what they called like a like a midseason finale. I

Sarah Wayne Callies: think I think Because I don't think we had a we didn't stop

Paul Adelstein: shooting. Obviously,

Sarah Wayne Callies: we did not know But it meant that the audience had to wait Four or five weeks to see because the Internet, the response to shows was almost immediate.

You didn't have to wait for somebody to write something for it to print for six people, you know, to go, Hey, did you see this article in the Tribune? And so we had almost real time feedback about how the show was going and shooting [00:24:00] in Chicago. I don't know if you remember this, but I, I remember going from feeling completely anonymous, um, as I had been virtually my entire life.

Up until that point, like, Tarzan had a couple fans, but like, when I say a couple, I mean like six. Right. To all of a sudden, you know, Wentworth and I went to brunch at Smith and Walensky most Saturdays in downtown Chicago, and I remember it going from Yep. Yeah, take a table wherever to like, they had a private table with curtains for us.

And I do remember too, this was, this was, well, it's, I mean, it's Chicago, it wasn't just for us. It was like, this is where we put people because it's the myth of Olenski in Chicago. Like in theory, they probably started for Al Capone or something, but like we, And I do remember the, the waiter seating us one time and going, Hey, I've just got to tell you, I love your show.

And he's talking to Wentworth and he goes, You and that girl are fantastic. [00:25:00] And Wentworth looks across the table at me and I just sort of shook my head and he goes, Thank you. I'll, I'll, uh, I'll let her know when we get back to work on Monday. But there was a level of, I mean, especially for Wentworth, of course, and Dominic, because their faces were on all the press and everything else and magazines.

But it was weird. All of a sudden, like, I took the bus a lot in Chicago. We only had one car, and so I'd be on the bus from Wicker Park into downtown, and somebody would sit next to you, and the phenomenon of like, oh my gosh, there's a fan, there's recognition. And that happened while we were then all the next day getting into the hair and makeup trailer together.

Dude, you guys, this was the weirdest thing, um, which in some ways was cool to experience. Oh, I

Paul Adelstein: thought it was really cool. I mean, I thought it was exciting. It was so exciting to have a show that people were hanging on every plot twist. It was really the beginning of the blogging about [00:26:00] shows, kind of, almost in real time, like you said, and then everyone and message boards and.

And it was Chat rooms. It was chat rooms. There were conversations immediately that weren't just people making telephone calls to one another. And that was new at that time. And again, like, the nature of this show lends itself to that kind of engagement, too.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes. It was water coolery. And of course, as we mentioned, you know.

We were nominated for a People's Choice Award, which was the first award we were ever nominated for while we were shooting this scene. Do you remember we went out This episode.

Paul Adelstein: Do you remember we went out, um, we all met somewhere. Do you remember?

Sarah Wayne Callies: That was for the Golden Globes, House of Blues. Yes, I do.

And I'll tell you that episode

Paul Adelstein: House of Blues? It was House of Blues. Wow. I

Sarah Wayne Callies: got us a private room at the House of Blues in Chicago. I will tell you that story on the next episode. Um, remind me. Because a key component was of that story was not, uh, [00:27:00] was not yet a member of the Prison

Music: Break family.

Wait, what a cliffhanger.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'll give

Music: you,

Sarah Wayne Callies: um,

Music: a little

Sarah Wayne Callies: bit of a secret. I remember something.

Music: Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: This episode is the last one where Mike Watkins name appears on the script. Oh. I don't know the story behind that. That's 90 percent of it.

Paul Adelstein: I know some of that story. There's a little more. I know some of that story.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. Let's, um.

Paul Adelstein: I also remember, yes, I remember the House of Blues meeting and I will, I guess we'll save that for the next time.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think we should. It's a fun story. I also want to hear. I remember

Paul Adelstein: Marshall telling us a big, Marshall Allman who played LJ, having a big announcement at that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, I think I remember this.

Yeah. Um, yeah, yeah. We got to make a note of that. It was also the

Paul Adelstein: first time in my life, and maybe still the first, only time in my life, that I went out the night before I had, like, when I was, I had work the next day. Like, I [00:28:00] wasn't drinking or anything, but I was still like, I just, you know. Go to bed, you da da dah.

I was like, oh my God, everyone's meeting at 10. I guess I'm gonna go.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It was, so we've just been nominated for Golden Globe.

Paul Adelstein: I, no, that

Sarah Wayne Callies: was back when the Golden Globes were golden and globe year.

Paul Adelstein: Um, what we did, what we did, the things we didn't know. Right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. So I still have things I wanna talk about. One saying.

That I mentioned, that we mentioned, was this beautiful cut between Lincoln bouncing his head off the bat or tapping his head on the back of the wall, cutting to Michael doing the same thing. Yeah. That, as it turns out, was in the script.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, cool. Read it. Can you read it to us?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Ooh, let me see. Yes. Okay. This is in the production draft.

We said, we said during

Paul Adelstein: rewatch, I wonder if the, I said, that's probably a directorial choice, not a script choice, but I'm clearly wrong.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You kind of never know. I mean, this was also, this was the production draft. So I'm sure there were lots and lots and lots of edits, but it started with, um.

Paul Adelstein: That's the production

Sarah Wayne Callies: draft and it's four weeks before?[00:29:00]

Yeah, dude.

Paul Adelstein: Oh my god.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I'm, we were shooting live television. This is bananas. Um, so, okay, so scene 56, interior guard room, night one, uh, Michael, his usual unflappable demeanor showing subtle signs that he's feeling the pressure. He bangs the back of his head against the wall, lightly gritting his jaw. Match cut to scene 57, interior shoe night, Link backing the back of his own head against the wall as the minutes pass.

Now they reversed that, um,

Paul Adelstein: there's actually a lot, they cut from Link into

Sarah Wayne Callies: Michael. But it's, you know,

Paul Adelstein: it's a very nice piece, nice piece of writing. Very

Sarah Wayne Callies: nice piece of writing. Like,

Paul Adelstein: quality sharing, yeah. Um, yeah, that's lovely.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You want to tell me your barfing story?

Paul Adelstein: I have so many, but hold on, you had better stuff about, I mean, that's just kind of general acting stuff about barfing on screen.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, wait. Okay, wait, but can I, when you said acting stuff, can I back up for a second? Because [00:30:00] I was thinking in the scene that you shot with Danny, um, and the scene that you shot with his wife, I just, I thought it was really, really nice work and really understated. And I realized a question I hadn't asked you that I'm really curious about, which is, if you're willing to share it, What is your prep like at the beginning of a shoot day?

And I'm asking partly because as I'm going through these scripts of mine, I'm realizing that a lot of these notes are the very earnest notes of a green, green, green actor trying to figure out technically how to do the job. And you were ahead of me, and there was a confidence with the way he

Paul Adelstein: worked

Sarah Wayne Callies: that I really admired when we were working together.

But I was

Paul Adelstein: also pretty green, um, I had done a, I had done a bunch of work, I had not been asked to do that kind of thing yet that much. I'd been on dramas, I'd been on comedies, but I hadn't, the stakes of this were high, character wise, and also I remember that night being like, oh, this is, I've never done [00:31:00] this before.

Um, part of my prep was to connect to the personal relationship with Danny because I knew that, um, like you said, it has to cost him something. Otherwise, we don't care. Um, I don't remember when you named, I think that speech, which I really, That You Named Me thing, I loved how that was written. So my prep was, I did a lot of research early, Secret Service, CIA, and especially special forces, um, in the American military, and kind of trying to get into what that mentality meant.

And the thing that I, uh, found, because, you know, again, this is like peak war on terror era. I fall on a, um, part of the political spectrum that was. [00:32:00] You know, not very supportive of that, and I wanted, I needed to put myself in the mindset of someone who was. And that was really, um, educational for me. Um, it certainly expanded my Cool

Sarah Wayne Callies: exercise in compassion.

Paul Adelstein: And like, yeah, totally expanded my view of the world and, and different political views. But also, um, the thing that I learned that I, uh, I learned a lot of things, but one of the things I, I learned. Um, I had to make him a true believer, right? He believes that what he's doing where, while it may be outside the bounds of the law is for a higher purpose.

Part, and, and the thing that I, uh, latched onto for that scene and that relationship is that, uh, and I remember we saw Jarhead together. Do you remember me, you and Josh saw Jarhead together?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, no way. And in the book

Paul Adelstein: of Jarhead, in the book, they, he does, he does a really interesting run about what they do in the military is that, uh, [00:33:00] Is that they make you fight, they bond you to your partner, they bond you to your squad.

So when you're out there doing it, you're not, I mean, yes, you're fighting for the United States of America, but you're really fighting for your brothers and sisters. And the idea that Danny and I had been bonded so far back, um, I really tried to dig into that so that then the betrayal could really affect me.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's very an et tu, Brute. Brute. Brute. But I want to drill down a little bit further if I can, and again, if you're not interested in sharing this, it's totally fine, because it's super personal for a lot of people. I can talk about

Paul Adelstein: myself as much as you want.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Outstanding. But what is your on the day, like, you show up in your trailer, do you stretch, do you do yoga, do you knit to Metallica, whatever, like, how is it that you transition from Paul Edelstein to Paul Kellerman?

Paul Adelstein: Uh, depending on the day and what's being asked of you because so much of acting on TV and [00:34:00] film is that there, that there is not a routine because it's like some days you show up at 6 a. m. and some days you show up at 6 p. m. Um, so staying whatever it takes to stay loose and fresh. So usually that means kind of like working out and um, with a character like Kellerman like yeah, going on my trip, stretching, like stretching my voice out, like staying loose, Worked up, and not staying too relaxed.

Music: It's a

Paul Adelstein: fine line, hey? A real fine line. And then I, um, I don't remember for that scene, um, I had read this book, How to Stop Acting, by Harold Guskin.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, that's a great title.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, some of the stuff in that book is really, really helpful, some of it for me, for me, and some of it isn't. Um, this was Peak Sopranos and, um, Guskin was, I think, Gandolfini's acting teacher.

So there was a lot of stuff about working with Gandolfini. [00:35:00] Um, there's just one exercise, That he would do to be emotional and emotional is something they put in scripts and the directors talk about where you're like, what does that mean? You want me to cry? What does that mean? You want me to have higher stakes?

But sometimes that is the only definition they'll give you. And there's this exercise that Guskin talks about the Candle Feeny does all the time, which is frankly just a breathing exercise that kind of. Makes you emotional, um, because it triggers a sense of memory in you. It's like if you get upset, a certain thing happens to you physiologically.

The philosophy here is if you do the physiological thing, it will actually trigger the upset.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You can work from the outside in or the inside out. I'm going to work from the outside

Paul Adelstein: in. So I was doing that breathing exercise in the car. I just remember doing it before I got out of the car, but I was a little green too and I got a little too obsessed with the exercise and kind of lose my, right, but I'm just doing a scene.

Right. I just need to go actually just go out there and look at Danny. Right. [00:36:00] But you can do all those exercises and then. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, I remember being unhappy with some of those takes and happy with some of them and hoping that they were gonna use the ones I liked.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Mm hmm. So, So hard to let that control go.

Yes,

Paul Adelstein: and my process was I have a thing and you know, again, this is just me where I do a lot of that work and then sometimes I have trouble letting go and giving over to whatever the rhythm of the,

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Shoot is I want to come while we wait. You know, I don't yell at anybody or anything. I'm just in the car.

I'm ready. I'm primed. Yeah. Yeah. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Getting out of here. Oh, we got to go back to one. We screwed up. Oh my God. I was going to be great in that one. Letting go of that mentality and just letting each one come. Um, it's something that I feel like I was already starting to battle with a little bit and I was happy with how I ended up, [00:37:00] um, Letting go in that night, um, because it was a weird shoot and as you could tell with the lighting, that lighting is very precise.

Music: Very precise. So even though it's

Paul Adelstein: a very dynamic scene, I remember there being a whole thing about how am I going to open that letter and hold the gun and I have a broken finger. So I will also have you know that I shot him lefty.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, you sure did. Wow, I never would have noticed that. Thanks for pointing that out.

That's really cool. And I remember I had to put

Paul Adelstein: the gun on the other side of my bot. Like it became a whole thing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: But it's actually wonderful to watch you. struggle with something in that moment.

Paul Adelstein: They didn't want me to, I remember they wanted like, oh, maybe you can just take it out of the, and I was like, no, no, no, it'll be fast.

I promise. It'll be fast. I promise. Like, we were like, we don't want this to become a scene about opening a letter. I was like, right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, I don't know if I'm answering your question about what,

Paul Adelstein: uh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: You are. No, you [00:38:00] really are. And I mean, it's, what was interesting to me and part of why, like, I, it's one of these things every time we finish an episode, I was like, oh crap, I want to ask Paul more about that.

But I noticed, like, I write a lot of notes to myself in the first, you know, on the title page or the. the cast list page of my script a lot. And, um, one of the things that I notice I wrote, I actually wrote in French because I was so embarrassed that anybody might read it.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, that's so funny. And cute. Cute is the wrong word, but you know what I mean?

Endearing. I

Sarah Wayne Callies: wrote, it is kind of endearing. Like, again, I look at this person as somebody who's so far removed from me now, but what I wrote in French was, uh, really look at other people. Because when I would get too in my head preparing. It's like I would look at them, but I was looking at them, in quotes.

And it's like, sometimes you just gotta

Paul Adelstein: drop it. I have that all over my scripts. Is that right? Listen. You know, you're like, you [00:39:00] weren't gonna sing, you weren't gonna sing, and you're like, oh right, hold on, I need to look, I need to make sure that when I show up here, I don't have this shit in my head. Right, acting is actually listening.

So sometimes it's good, acting is actually just standing there and receiving, but you gotta get yourself in a place that you can do that. But I'm interested. Yeah. Yeah. To hear what you think green notes are. Like why, you probably knew way more than you thought you did. And also your work is, I would actually want to talk about the scene with you and because what you called Victorian hand porn.

He's different in that scene than I've seen him be in this series.

Sarah Wayne Callies: There's a

Paul Adelstein: kind of lightness in him, even though his brother's about to die and he knows he's about to escape, where he's saying goodbye to you, it's very sparse. Do you ever think about what could be different? Mm-Hmm. . And she's trying not to get taken in by it.

And you won't look at him at one point. It's very, and you let it yet let, yet you let him take your [00:40:00] hand. So when you say it's, and it's, and look, here's the thing, I don't know what went into that. But all I know is that, like, audience brain likes it, but then my actor brain says, well, why does this work?

And all I can come up with is, well, they're very connected, and they're really listening to each other, and they're very much on the same page in what has to happen in this scene. So you know, all these things we talk about, the notes I made, the prep I did, they're really all Like I said, oh, the Guskin book has some good things for me, some bad things for me.

For somebody else, those things may be reversed. Like it's whatever gets you to standing in that friggin spot, listening and responding to another person and trying to affect them. Like whatever.

Music: Whatever that is. Methodology

Paul Adelstein: you need. So what are, uh, give me some note. I want to know like what you are saying are green and you're not looking at your script right now.

You're looking up. So you're not going to tell me.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, no, no. I do have my script here. I mean, part of, I think the process of being on prison break to me. [00:41:00] And I someday, I want to try and find them. Maybe if we do this for a second season, I had a friend of mine had read a book called The Artist's Way.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Which I never read. But apparently one of the suggestions is, uh, write two pages in a journal every day. Um, just whatever comes out of your head. And I started doing that as a way of kind of bridging me and my character. When I'd get into the trailer in the morning, you know, I'd like do some yoga or whatever, but like start to just start to like what was in my head on paper so that I could let it go.

Uh, and then start to kind of move into that. And I think the process of prison break for me in a lot of ways was taking everything that I had been taught about how to act in drama school about this is what a play is and this is what the text is. So this is what a warm up is, which. Was helpful, but also I found [00:42:00] rigid and somewhat not useful for work on camera.

Edit it into an actual actionable set of techniques for myself. Because when you're inspired and everything's fine, it's great. That's not, like, that's not when you need the technique, right? You need the technique for, like, I have a 4 a. m. call and I haven't slept and

Paul Adelstein: Anybody can be, anybody can be good when they're feeling it, right?

Anybody can get in the zone.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And one of the meanest things I've ever seen, heard a director say about an actor, understanding the implications of it is she can't do the same thing once,

Paul Adelstein: which, Oh my God, that's fucking brutal.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's super brutal. Um, but it was a way of warning me as somebody who was going to direct, like, just FYI, you're going to get one brilliant performance.

Then you're going to get another brilliant performance. You will never be able to cut those two things together. So just understand that. [00:43:00] But so like, okay. Here's something, um, that I wrote, and this kind of comes to the Victorian hand porn thing. I wrote a note in the script at the bottom of the page, uh, eyes off him.

Physical focus. My physical focus should be completely professional.

Paul Adelstein: And that's great. And it works. And I totally noted that.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, and we talked, I, we, we argued actually, what was, okay. So backing up a little bit, Wentworth and I really were interested in a similar style of acting, which is, you can't tell the difference between the conversation we're having before and after action, right?

They should be equally relaxed and naturalistic. And for our scenes, it worked.

And one of the things that directors were constantly getting us to try and do is look at each other.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, I'll bet.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Make eye contact.

Paul Adelstein: Gaze into each other's eyes.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes. Because

Paul Adelstein: that's a [00:44:00] visual cue of these people like each other have tension, all that, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And the best acting teacher I ever had is a brilliant man named Larry Hecht, and he always said that people who hold eye contact for more than 60 seconds are going to be fighting or fucking in the next 30 seconds in life.

So if you're staring into somebody's eyes in television for three minutes of a scene, the audience knows it's a lie, unless you're fighting or fucking as soon as it's over, which happens a lot on TV. And so we were constantly going, no, I'm sorry, like, love and respect, no, I don't want to look at him. I don't want her to look at me, like,

Paul Adelstein: And what that shows is that you do want to fuck him.

I mean, the fact that you don't want to look at him is telling, very, very telling, restraint I think, and very effective.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So yeah, the hand porn thing was funny because they'd been trying, like, The writers and the directors have been [00:45:00] trying to get us to either hold hands or kiss or something for at this point a solid six episodes.

And, uh, we kept just going like, no problem, but why, why? I think we can sell it another way, why? And then the show came out and we're like, oh, okay, it's working. And so in this one, it was like, he takes her hand and apparently Wentworth called me the next, like a day or two after this episode aired. And he was like, the internet's calling it Victorian hand porn.

And we just thought it was very funny.

Paul Adelstein: It's just very, very effective. Um, I wanted to say something else about the prep. For all the things I said about, like, Kellerman Prep and all that stuff. I don't know if it's because what my training was, like, you know, being in a, in a comedial acting company in Chicago that was like, we did hours and hours and hours of crazy math, crazy white face that we would make and all these fat pads and sweat and these outrageous characters.

And we would talk about image a lot because you're playing a stock character. And we'd spend a lot of time what we called in the mirror. Like, I'm like, I'm like, industrialist from [00:46:00] 1930s Germany, this like crazy eyebrow, like, and you would try to take what you saw and then imbue that with these incredibly heightened emotions.

But a lot of it was, was like, what is this image portraying? And not superficially, I just mean, what are you creating? What's the archetype? Yeah. What's the archetype? So, the, a huge help for me with Kellerman was the coat, the suit, the tie, the pin, the ring, the sunglasses, the car, the gun, the crew cut. Like it was very much like armor.

Very much a uniform. Yeah. And when I put it on, once you've done it a few times, it really helps. Thanks. I don't dress, I don't wear a suit and tie today. So when I put a suit and tie, when I put that suit and tie on, it really felt like I'm going into

Sarah Wayne Callies: Hmm. Same, actually.

Paul Adelstein: Sure. For [00:47:00] instance, if I was dressed in, I don't think you've seen Kellerman in civilian clothes at this point.

Music: Not yet.

Paul Adelstein: Those are civilian clothes, but you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah. Um, it would have been a different kind of scene. Like Danny's not wearing a coat and tie. Like he's in his sweater. The power dynamic there. Yeah. And so it felt like I'm at work, you know. And then to let the emotional part of, you betrayed me into that space, it kind of does its own work then.

Music: Because you see

Paul Adelstein: that armor, I say it's Kraken y armor, but you see him, you see that thing get through.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes, for the very first time. And actually, I think what's interesting about both of these scenes, Is that they're built on at this point, 12 episodes of restraint, which is we have not seen Kellerman get teary eyed over pulling a trigger.

We have not seen Michael get through to Sarah in a way that she's kind of [00:48:00] willing to countenance. But because of that restraint, and this is something that I found sometimes challenging with television directors who want to pack it all into their episode. And I'm like, listen, I get it. And I love that you want to make this the best episode of the season, however, I'm not running a sprint.

I'm running a marathon. That's right. And if you do certain things on mile 15, by the time I get to the very last 500 yards, nobody's going to care. And that is one of the things that I think becomes, uh, a balance between actors and directors and, and writers and directors and stuff on, on episodic two.

Okay, I do think we should probably cut to a quick commercial and then ask like, answer like one fan question, because we're so

Paul Adelstein: out

Sarah Wayne Callies: of time.

Paul Adelstein: We've, bladum, bladum, bladum. Okay, we'll be right

Sarah Wayne Callies: back. Yeah, but thanks for sharing all this, because it's been really cool. Okay, we'll be back. Okay, welcome back. We have a bunch [00:49:00] of questions that, uh, are, we're just not going to get to, and I love you guys, thank you.

We will import some of these to next. week's episode and see if we can, um, see if we can get to that. But what about, okay. Um, what about question 11 here, Paul? The hardest moment for you in this series as a character and actor? Maybe let's, let's limit it to this season.

Paul Adelstein: Oh.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Like, was that Danny moment? Was that the hardest.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, I think it was the hardest. It was the most complex thing I think I do in season one and, and wanted to get right. Um, so yeah, it was definitely a challenge. What about you?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, Weirdly, the hardest one I think for me, there's a scene, and this is way, way, way down. This is probably one of the last two episodes.

It's just Sarah alone crying in a car. Oh yeah. Um, and I [00:50:00] was away. I don't remember what I was doing. It might have been press for the show. It might have been something family related. But they had said, you've got the week off. I left Chicago. And then they called me a couple days later and they said, we need you to come in and film.

Paul Adelstein: A crying scene. Just come in and cry in a car.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Crying in the car.

Paul Adelstein: Context?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Uh, I think it was about the decision of leaving the door open.

Paul Adelstein: Okay. Okay.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Um, so giant character moment. Crying on camera. I don't know if I'd ever done it before. It was so intimidating to me. Um, because my whole philosophy of acting was all about like, restraint, restraint, restraint, restraint, restraint.

And, and to be honest, I didn't feel, and this is not an indictment, but I didn't feel so like safe and supported on that set that I felt like I could just kind of access. And I remember they flew me in, like got off the plane, went straight to set. It was the end of a night shoot. I think it was a second unit.

And [00:51:00] so it's also part of a weird thing about a second unit is you roll up and half the time you don't know the crew.

Paul Adelstein: And they don't know you. So like

Sarah Wayne Callies: the guy who's wiring you, you're like, Oh, hey, nice to meet you. I'm Sarah. And so there's not even that familiarity of, I always felt super safe with our crew.

You know what I mean? And so you're like, Oh, hey, Tony, what's up? Oh, hey. And you're like. Those were the people that made you feel like you were home. And like, I sat in the car, and the director was like, and action.

Paul Adelstein: Oh jeez. Oh jeez. And I was

Sarah Wayne Callies: like, and so it was, that was probably one of the hardest, um, one of the most difficult, just again, from a technical perspective, uh, that was a challenging one.

Paul Adelstein: One more question and we'll answer, answer very quickly. Yeah. Uh, this is, uh, for fun, but who do you guys think had the highest kill count on Prison Break for Season 1? Gotta be Kellerman. I would definitely say Teabag or Kellerman, and I would say it's Kellerman. It's gotta be Kellerman.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Because Teabag doesn't have a gun.

Correct. If you gave Kellerman, Kellerman's weapons to Teabag,

Paul Adelstein: Maybe. Different story. I'm, yeah, no, I'm, I got the full force of the United States Armed [00:52:00] Forces and the United States government behind me.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And like full diplomatic immunity, apparently.

Paul Adelstein: By the

Sarah Wayne Callies: way, did they bring Patty Wettigin for one line? I think they did, right?

She just goes, somebody talked.

Music: Yep.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's like, it's amazing. Yeah. Um, that is a very expensive line. I don't know what she cost an episode, but it's not 11. 50 and I'm very glad that she got that check. Go Patty.

Paul Adelstein: Yes. Love that Patty. Okay. Well, I think that does it. Another episode of Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul.

Please follow us on Instagram at prisonbreakpodcast.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And don't forget to call into the prison breaking hotline at 4013 P break. That's P R, no, it's not. It's P B R E A K. And this makes question, if you had to pick one of the Fox River Seven to leave behind, who would it be and why? Except T Bag. You can't pick T Bag.

Music: Yeah, you can't pick T Bag. Because quite frankly, you don't

Sarah Wayne Callies: pick [00:53:00] T Bag. You're a terrible person. That's right.

Paul Adelstein: We're not, we're not doing the contest on the thing? That'll be a different contest. The mold contest? No.

Sarah Wayne Callies: So, the um, the, what was it, the Stocky Boutrice Mold, uh, please DM us on our Instagram, and uh, we will announce winners via Instagram, and um, then the winner can send us their address and we will send you PB.

Swag.

Paul Adelstein: Swag. And send us your address and we will send one of the Fox River 7 to hide out in your

Sarah Wayne Callies: We, in fact, will not. So, I'm worried about saying that publicly. Okay. Okay. So, credits.

Paul Adelstein: Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul is a Caliber Studio production.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Your hosts have been friends but not besties, Sarah Wayne Callies and Paul Edelstein.

Paul Adelstein: Our prison warden has been producer Ben Haber.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Keeping us slim and trim in the prison yard has been sound designer and editor Jeff Schmidt.

Paul Adelstein: Keeping us up to date on the outside world is production assistant through Austin. Our prison artist logo, brand designer, tattoo artist at John [00:54:00] Zito and Little big brands.

Check them out at www little big brands.com.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Follow us on Instagram at Prison Break Podcast. Email us at prison breaking@caliberstudio.com. And call us at 401 3 P BREAK.

Paul Adelstein: Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul has been a Calibre Studio production. Thank you for listening.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Bye!

Paul Adelstein: See you next time. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul is a Calibre Studio production.

Your hosts have been friends, but not besties. Sarah Wayne Callis and Paul Edelstein, the prison warden is back. Keeping us slim and trim in the prison yard has been sound designer and editor Jeff Schmidt. Keeping us up to date on the outside world is production assistant Drew Austin. Letting the world know what's been happening to us.

Our music was done by Paul Edelstein, a prison artist, logo, and brand designer. is John Nunziato and LittleBigBrands. Check them out at www. LittleBigBrands. com. Follow us on Instagram, Prison Break Podcast. Email us at prisonbreakingatcaliberstudio. [00:55:00] com. Call us at 401 3P BREAK. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul has been a Caliber Studio production.

Thank you for listening.