Episode 11 (The Real one) ===

Track 1: [00:00:00] And here we are. It's nice and focused the app.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Good. Yeah. All right. Welcome back, everyone. Thank you for being with us on Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul. I'm Paul,

Track 1: And I'm Sarah. And today's episode is, and then there were seven, uh, which is the 11th episode. episode that aired. It's numbered 10 in our scripts for insane and confusing reasons we have previously discussed.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: but I still can't get my head around. Um, this episode features a strip tease, a strip search, a growing body count, a conjugal visit, and possibly the first scene in the show Bechdel test.

Track 1: It also won director, uh, Jesus Trevino, an Alma award, which is, uh, pretty amazing and much deserved

the almost for those who don't know, um, are the American Latino media arts awards. They're [00:01:00] super prestigious. So we have a lot to talk about today. And we are going to dive into our Calestine index or we'll swim into it because we're fishes.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Uh, I'm not a fish. I was never, uh, uh, yes. So I'm gonna, I object. Uh, and then there were seven premiered on November 14th, 2005. It was written by Zach Estrin, directed by the award winning Jesus Trevino. The episode drew 9. 58 million viewers. I think. That seems like our highest. Uh, it had a lead in of last week's episode, slight of hand, and it aired in the 9 PM Monday slot against Las Vegas and NBC two and a half men on CBS and over on ABC Monday night football, it was a squeaker 21, 20 final score where the Cowboys edged the Eagles

Track 1: Um, by the way, I think it's one of our highest episodes. I think we had a 10 million at one point.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: before, Before this,

Track 1: I think we might have, I'll check my, I'll

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: those are big, big big [00:02:00] numbers all these

Track 1: God, they're big. I know for right. Um, the Wikipedia episode recap reads, Michael is visited by his wife, Niko Volokh, uh, Belek forces Volokh to reveal she's a prostitute.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Which,

Track 1: to Wikipedia.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: I

Track 1: I do not believe she is. I

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: correct, I believe

Track 1: dancer.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: and she's yes, right.

Track 1: so small bone to pick with Wikipedia there. Moving on. Westmoreland's daughter is dying. He admits to Michael that he is D. B. Cooper. He wants in. Michael tells Lincoln there's not enough time for everyone to escape.

Someone must be left

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: dun!

Track 1: Quinn wins. Meanwhile, interrogates Donovan, Lincoln Jr., and Saverin, otherwise known as, uh, Veronica, Nick Saverin, and LJ. Uh, Saverin is critically shot. They manage to get away after pushing Quinn down a well. That old chestnut. Uh, Kellerman arrives and leaves Quinn instead of saving him.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Mm [00:03:00] hmm.

Track 1: Gong. We are

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: to the body

Track 1: to the Kellerman. Yes. Adding to the body count. Which means, for anyone playing the drinking game, Shots on shots on shots.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: I think it's three. I think it's three.

Track 1: Is that it? Letitia Barris,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Uh, the bishop, I would assume. Uh, I actually didn't

pull the trigger, like, I don't know who they sh Uh, in the in the pilot. Um

Track 1: also Jesslyn Gilsig,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Oh,

right? of course. Uh, well, Hale did, but, um, I shot the stepfather, So we'll still go with, we'll go with three,

Track 1: three or four. Okay.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: uh, in pop culture on November 17th, the film rent based on the hit Broadway musical premiered at the Zig feed theaters on November 18th. my gosh. This is this long ago. The film walked the line open in theaters.

Reese Witherspoon would go on to win the best actress award at the 78th Oscars for her [00:04:00] portrayal of June Carter cash in the

film.

Track 1: walk no line.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: You can't walk No Line Carrie under. I love that movie, by the way,

Carrie Underwood's. It really is a good biopic or biopic as I used to say. Carrie Underwood's debut studio album.

Some Hearts is released on November 15th, including her hit Single Jesus Take the Wheel. The album won album of the year at the Country Music Awards and three Grammys that year.

Track 1: I can't believe Carrie Underwood. Carrie Underwood feels like she's been around my entire life. Like she's always been a fixture in the country music scene.

Um, in world news, for some reason, according to our research, by which I mean, our interns research. Thank you, Drew. We love you. Uh, it was a bit of a slow week.

Um, although Prince Albert, the second of Monaco did manage to become fully enthroned as you do at the St. Nicholas Cathedral that week. So we'll see. Good

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Good job.

Track 1: getting the job you were literally born into.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Alright, I met him. [00:05:00] Anyway,

Track 1: Prince Albert?

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: I did.

Track 1: Wait, what?

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: I know, that's a different story. Make a note of it. We can

Track 1: no, no, no. It's this story.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: have to go, we have to, we have to go to the, let's do the

Track 1: Okay. Okay.

Okay. I'll make a note of it.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: So bonus episode bonus content, everyone. Let's go watch the episode, press play. We're going to go over and we're going to watch it.

And it's a really fun episode. We just did it actually

Track 1: We just

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: mind with a time machine, but we've already done it. And we literally exclaimed multiple times. Oh my God. And Oh shit. So come on over and join us over there and then come back here and listen to us talk about it.

Track 1: So the rewatch happens. They're going to cut me saying this. And then,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: All right. Oh, we'll be right back to talk about the episode. Right.

Track 1: so after the rewatch, I think then you say, and we'll be right back to talk about the episode.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Oh, because we're going to go to commercial?

Track 1: Yeah. After the rewatch.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: All right. Welcome back, and we're going to be, we'll be right back to talk about the episode.[00:06:00]

Track 1: And, uh, welcome back everyone. Thanks I thought we could start this conversation with a stage direction I noticed leafing through my script for this episode, which I've taken to doing. Um, I think I only have my script for season one, but I'm not sure I have to dig through my storage. So, okay. So this is the infirmary scene.

I just love state directions because it's like, These little joys that the cast and crew get to enjoy that the audience never gets.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Yes.

Track 1: So infirmary scene, scene three between Michael and Sarah, which is a very flirty one. It begins, he's here for his daily appointment, shot of insulin, side order of sexual tension.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Amazing.

Track 1: I just wanted to share that with you guys. Um, side order of sexual tension. Thankfully I took the sexual tension seminar my last year in grad school.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Took it. Took it. You wrote it. Um, they had to add it. Independent study. Um, I, you know, that

actually dovetails into something [00:07:00] that I noticed in the last couple episodes that I wanted to

Track 1: Did you just interrupt yourself in the middle of a sentence to take a sip of coffee?

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Is this not NPR?

Track 1: That was, you guys can't see it, but Paul's talking and in the middle of a sentence, he raises a cup to his lips, interrupts himself to take a sip and then puts it down.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: this is something that I think is genetic because my mother would say, Oh, Paul, you're not going to believe who I saw today and what they said about you that they went, and then she chewed for like 90 seconds and holding one finger up,

Track 1: Wait, your mother chews her coffee?

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: okay, not coffee, but food. And. I mean, she's 86 now.

Track 1: Okay. So,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Um, no, she doesn't.

Track 1: so to recap, your dad wanted to name you P. Earl and your mother chews your coffee, her coffee. I can't wait to meet your parents.

Um, Okay, go, go, go, go.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: so just for the audience, I wanted to say about the stage direction thing and, you know, Zach Astron, who passed away. Really [00:08:00] young. And it was very sad and he was just universally beloved.

He brought a lot of this kind of that kind of vibe to the scripts. And, you know, the audience is getting all that information, even though they don't know they're getting it. It's not being communicated directly, but when the, when the cast and crew read Shot of Insulin, Side Order of Sexual Tension, there's a, um, tone of fun in that, that then comes into the show. It's, uh, uh, one of the ways writers convey tone to the directors and the crew and the cast is in those, Action descriptions, uh, stage directions. It's not campy. It's not making fun of the show, but it is saying this is, there's a sense of fun here. And I was thinking of that in terms of this show, that it's the, I find it the most satisfying when there is a little, it's not [00:09:00] camp and it's not, um, heightened, but you know, for instance, When Sarah and Michael are bantering, when they're being not just sexy with one another, but when they're kind of giving each other shit,

when there's a kind of like intelligence in their banter, when there's a kind of self awareness of the silliness

of their

Track 1: There's a bit of a twinkle in the eye.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: There's a bit of the twinkle in the eye when Quinn is kind of going off about, you know, and he's even telling him, Oh, you know, you broke this finger.

And here's the thing about, uh, here's the thing about what the Russians do. Like it's horrifying as that is, there's kind of a playful sense. I mean, the horrible, like racial stuff that's going on in the, with the, with the PI crew. I mean, the actors. Get to have a good time doing that stuff, even though obviously it's charged and it's supposed to be tense.

It is tense and it's offensive and it's hard to [00:10:00] watch.

There's a little bit of a twinkle in the eye with it. Right. I mean, isn't that kind of part of the fun of the show? Right.

Track 1: I think like when Philly Falzon says, don't get elliptical with me. There's, there is a sense that like, this is not, I don't think it was written to be the kind of hard boiled naturalism. This is how people talk,

but there's, there's a bit of a pattern to it. I like, I mean, I remember Wentworth when we'd go through lines, sometimes he'd be like, it's been a hot day on the yard.

See, you know? And like,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: there is some of that. I mean, he says things like, that's not what I meant dot, dot, dot. Or is it, I mean, he taught like Michael

talks like that.

Track 1: Mm hmm.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Um, and it's, I think, I think it's just one of the reasons why I don't want to say the show doesn't take itself that seriously, because that makes it sound like the people that made it didn't take it seriously.

And [00:11:00] that's

not the same thing. You know, it.

Track 1: comparison I think actually is a really apt one because there's a version of this show that says, you guys, this is what prison is really like. And this is like basically a documentary and look at all this important work we're doing. This show is like, okay, that show is Oz. or something else.

Our show is, it's a heist and it's got

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: a high show. That's right. That's right. It's more like, I mean, it has like a more of an ocean's 11 vibe and then it

does.

Track 1: or even the sting. I love this. Like the sting was one of my favorite shows because

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: uh, I mean, we put the sting all over that movie.

Track 1: did you really?

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: TV show. Oh yeah. Well, it's a con it's also a con.

The sting is one of the great con movies.

Yeah. But yeah, it has the, you know, we're getting the, we're getting the crew together to pull off a heist vibe. And that is a genre in and of itself. But this genre happens to be. Set in prison. Anyway, I think the actors [00:12:00] that are settling into that and having the most fun with it, I just think it's just a joy for the audience.

Track 1: It is now there's also, and I kind of hate to do this, but because I was reading through, there's another side to that. And I want to caveat this with, because he's not here for me to talk to directly. I adored Zach Estrin. Um, I think he's a phenomenal writer and a wonderful human being. And actually his father, I believe, uh, was involved in Op USA, which is a nonprofit, um, that, uh, my husband worked for briefly in Los Angeles.

I believe that's right. Um, but. But, you know, these are the kinds of things that like I talk about sometimes on this podcast, because I think that they should be talked about just because we can't make things better if we don't talk about what they've been. The scene stage state, the sorry, the scene seven stage direction.

I'm flubbing this cause I'm actually nervous to even criticize anything, but it starts with quote tight on a pair of legs, [00:13:00] not just any legs, goddamn legs. We're talking. I'm going to need some gentlemen's time, kind of legs.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Woof.

Track 1: And I am 100 percent sure that, uh, Zach wouldn't write that now. The world's a different place

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: He would not. And.

Track 1: And good men use different language to describe women now than they did then. And I

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: And I would.

Track 1: is a good man and you know, all of that.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: And I would also say to my earlier point that communicates something to the

cast and crew

Track 1: yes.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: that then comes across to the audience, but that obviously communicates something a little, uh, not a little, um, objectifying and. And that's why it's shot the way it's shot.

Track 1: It also conveys

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: that's why it feels, feels the way it feels.

And it, and I don't think, um, yeah, [00:14:00] and that gets communicated. That sets a tone and that was not a good tone to set

Track 1: It also sets a tone for the actor because not in this show, but in other shows I've been on those. You know, it can be a little fun when you read that about you and you're like, Oh, that's what I'm doing here. You know, it's, it's a tough one because I mean, this cuts to so many things that we've touched on already and I'm sure we'll continue to talk about creative people.

I think need the leeway to be creative. And that means that sometimes. the mark is going to get missed. In my opinion, this maybe misses the mark of setting the kind of tone for the kind of workplace where we blah, blah, blah. Um, where everybody feels, you know, Hey, this is good for all of us. Um, I don't know.

It was just, it was a cray. I'll be honest. It was a crazy thing to read because you [00:15:00] wouldn't read a stage direction like this now. And I don't think any writer would write a stage direction like this now.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: And you know, it doesn't have to be written that way. Also tight on a pair of legs, moving up a woman's body is. A shot that's been going on since the beginning of filmmaking,

right?

Track 1: and that's not the issue.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: well, it's a little bit of the, I mean, it's the male. Gaze issue. And it's interesting that there's probably no other camera directions in that script.

Track 1: Well,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: starts on this and goes to this, that is of using a trope, right? It's a very like

Track 1: yeah,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: trope with like a trombone sound that, that is indicates something without much thought.

Track 1: you

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: saying we start on a beautiful woman, a beautiful, sexy woman is, [00:16:00] Because it's supposed to be a reveal as to who's coming to see Michael is different than the way this is written.

Right.

Track 1: Well, and what's interesting to me, yes. And when I bring this up and we might just sort of come, uh, come about this differently when I bring this up, it's not about the shot because the shot I think is important because the shot is the male gaze that then comes on to Bellic. And what it tells us is this is the way Bellic is looking at her.

Bellic is objectifying this woman. We're kind of in, it's not his literal POV cause he's in front of her, but it's this like. It's this both objectifying and a little gross, and it sets the tone for the scene. But you could say that in a stage direction that reads, tied on a pair of legs, traveling up in a way that feels a little salacious, land on Bellic, ooh, that's why.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Exactly. Right.

[00:17:00] That's exactly right.

Track 1: the Not just any legs gone, Goddamn legs. But when you say we're talking, I'm going to need some gentlemen's time kind of legs. What's interesting is what you're saying so clearly is this is for men.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Yes. A hundred percent.

Track 1: We're not, we don't care what the women watching this feel. don't care about that perspective.

And that, um, is interesting because I think it was one of those things. Embedded in Hollywood that took a long time for many of us, myself included, to even realize was there. Because I guarantee you when I read those stage directions in 2005, I mean, I didn't circle them in my script and go WTF question mark.

I didn't make a note about it. I didn't notice it anyway. Um, enough on that one. Uh,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Well, there's also a version of [00:18:00] this where you don't get the, sorry, I'm just going to go to like director brain for a second, right?

Like there's a version of this where you don't have to include the audience. In the male gaze part of that, where you start on Bellock's face and you're like, what the fuck is he looking at like that?

And that's what the stage direction is.

And then you reverse on her and you're like, Oh,

this

Track 1: like, Oh yeah.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Without the, without the titillation of objectifying the woman at the same time. I mean, it's

this, it has it, it has its cake and eats it too, or whatever that expression is kind of here. And that was. Also wouldn't be done now or may might certainly be done, but I don't think would be done on this show that but maybe I'm wrong about that too. But I think that obviously, yes, obviously, at the time, which is not that long ago. Yeah, it didn't even register, right?

Or, you know, When you read it, when I read it [00:19:00] didn't circle it

Track 1: Although

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: certainly would now certainly would now,

Track 1: I don't, I mean, I don't think this would get past, I don't think this would get out of a writer's room. I think if a showrunner read that stage direction, you know, he

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: um, they would, they would

Track 1: let's, let's talk about

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: they would cut out. We're talking. I'm going to need some gentlemen time legs, but they wouldn't cut

out. Not just any legs. Goddamn legs.

Track 1: that's true. That's true. That's true. Also,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: that shot still exist.

Track 1: legs. Do you audition goddamn legs? You go, I'd like you to audition. And then I would like a closeup

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: I

Track 1: of

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: I've been in those. I mean, I've been on the male version of that audition. Certainly,

Track 1: yeesh.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: you know, I mean, I'm sure you have to or maybe hopefully not, but I'm sure you have. Yeah.

Track 1: I won't do body

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Right.

Track 1: shots anymore in my auditions. I won't do those. You get my, you get my work. And if you want to know what I look like, you can Google me. But when [00:20:00] they do the like, and then show us, you know, do the body pan or do the, what I was like, I,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: No, I don't do that either.

Track 1: I look great. Trust me.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: And Google me, Google me, motherfucker.

Um, sorry.

Track 1: Oh,

no, I totally

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: that out. We got that

Track 1: know what I look like Yesterday?

Check my Instagram. It's okay. It's all public. Um,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: of taping with my ex and she's always like, you're going to do this late. And I was like, no,

Track 1: um,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: why did I mention that? Let's get that out to,

um, all right,

Track 1: I don't, I don't think you should. I think it's important, but I also want to balance that with, that was the scene seven stage direction. Scene nine is, I believe, first scene in the show that passes the Bechdel test. So on the one hand

we have, you know, the problematic issue that we were just talking about, but on the other hand, we have a scene between, we're going to go over the Bechdel rules again.

One more time. One, a scene has two women in it. Two, they talk to each other. Three, they talk about something besides a [00:21:00] man, Sarah and Katie, uh, doctor and nurse, two powerful professional women. Independent are coming down the stairs and they're talking about funding for the prison. Um, and her father does come up as,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: but he is also the governor,

so, okay.

Track 1: but in a funding context, it's not two girls giggling over like, Oh my God, you guys, he's so cute.

Can I have another appletini? Um,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: That scene would have been different if you guys had appletinis.

Track 1: Especially because Sarah is a recovering alcoholic.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: you're in a prison, yes.

Track 1: And we're in a prison. And you can't walk down the stairs and drink an appletini. I mean, there may be people who can, but I

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: only in heels.

Track 1: Only if you're in Sex and the City. Um, or possibly RuPaul's Drag Race. Um, so So big ups to that. We have, we have a scene between two women who are named talking to each other and talking about something other than man.

So wait,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Alright. [00:22:00] So, with that, we are gonna take a very quick break, and then we have a new fan thing announcement. Wait

Track 1: we're not. We have so many other things to talk about.

So that, sorry, that quick break is at the end of our conversation about whatever you want to talk about. And then that's right before we wrap up

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: oh oh it is. Oh, I see,

Track 1: Yeah, that's our end break.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: There's so much Oh, I see, okay, that rest of that. Okay, sorry, I didn't read

Track 1: You should probably start reading the scripts before we shoot.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Don't get in them. Don't don't fuck with my process.

Track 1: Okay, fine.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Oh no. I learned it in the chair, man. Yeah. No. No,

Track 1: I learned it on the walk.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: I learned it in the chair. No, you don't. Um, so the, uh, I would say that we, we talked about very early on in our, in the podcast. How much do you think Paul sharing and then [00:23:00] who created the show? And then, uh, when, you know, when he wrote the pilot and I'm sure, and presumably pitch the whole thing had, uh, Of the actual prison break, um, details, the, the pug knack, the tattoos, the English Fitz Percy, like how many

of

Track 1: watch.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: you go to watch, how many of those details previously existed?

Because for instance, In this episode, like we don't know anything about this gold watch and we kind of get the whole story of the gold watch start to finish, right? For instance, I would pitch or I would pitch the wrong word. I would suggest, and this is not a criticism at all for somebody who has been on both sides of this, that the DB Cooper, that his character, that Westmoreland's character suddenly needing to be in, I mean, that's planted in the first act. It's

Track 1: Yes. Yeah, when he's like, I've got a kid.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Yeah, I've got a kid like they mentioned that he has [00:24:00] a kid in the first act in the second act is the kids dying and then the third act he's like I need in. Um, I would imagine if they had that idea earlier, they would have planted it. Maybe

Track 1: they planted the DB Cooper stuff so early.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: You got to think,

Track 1: And the tweener stuff, and tweener's the one who does watchlifting. Mm

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: they had a problem. Maybe what they did is I'm just, this is all obviously conjecture, but I mean, maybe what they did was they painted themselves into a corner as to why would this guy he's, he's so resistant. Why does he actually need to go with them? Even though Michael needs him? Why does he need

them? Maybe it was a note. Maybe

it was like, yeah, we don't, we need a reason for that. You know,

Track 1: Some of those things, this is good for fans to know, some of those things can be studio or network notes, where like, the writers deliver an amazing draft. And then there's a like, yeah, but we need a stronger reason for DB

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Yeah, or even, even the writers themselves read [00:25:00] it and say, yeah, we should have, we should have, uh, seeded this a little earlier. Let's, let's make it, let's make it better. And, you know, but

Track 1: I want to talk, I think we

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: it still works. Like I, it's not the kind of thing I would have noticed the first time through even, I was just like, Oh, I wonder how much of this was pre planned and how much, you know, how does, how does the, they, how do they lay the track for this storyline?

Track 1: Well, I know certainly, and this is a little bit different, but certainly I remember when we got to the brother's keeper episode, the entire flashback episode, a lot of us read it and we're like, Oh,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Uh huh.

Track 1: Oh,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Uh

Track 1: um, but yeah, when we have Karen Usher on, and I think that's coming up in an episode or two, I want to ask her exactly that question.

How much were you guys? Uh, laying that track in front of a moving train because you had all the pieces, right? You had tweener, you had DB Cooper, you had Muse, Westmoreland, so many names. Um, super curious [00:26:00] about that. Uh, I want to tell you a quick lane watch story I mentioned in the, in the watch party and I don't have enough of this to fully piece together.

So someday when we have lane on here, I want to chat with him about it. But I remember, um, he was such a sweetheart. And he showed up and was kind of getting to know people and we started talking and I was like, well, come, why don't you, you know, come out to wicker park, come have dinner with my husband and I go, sure.

And so we met him in wicker park. I think we went to abattoir maybe. No, it wasn't abattoir was abattoir. There was this great little restaurant, um, that no longer exists. It was so great. And we went and he showed up looking so sharp. He had like a coat. and like a, like a, like a sport coat. And he was wearing this watch.

I was like, kid, I'm not sure you won't get mugged in this. Like, this is not a bad neighborhood, but [00:27:00] it's not a great neighborhood. Like, please be careful. Because it was like, it was one of those watches. You look at it and you're like, Oh my God, that's not fake. It was one of, it was back when giant watches were in

and it was like super thick and it was, had a big face and it was probably platinum.

There were diamonds everywhere. And I was like, I did not realize you were this bougie. And he was like, Oh, I'm not. Like I kind of half raised my sister.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Yeah,

Track 1: think he might even, I don't think his parents were in the picture. Um,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: that's right.

Track 1: I think he bought it for himself with like some of the first money that he made,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Yeah, that's, um, that makes sense.

Track 1: not mistaken.

And he was like, I wanted to prove to myself that I wasn't just some. You know, trash kid from the middle of nowhere in Texas. Um, and I was like, wow, look at you. And he's like, yeah, look at me. And then he came up [00:28:00] and he was like, yeah, you know, I'm on the show and I think it's going to be really great. And you know, I'm dating this cool actor who I love so much.

And I was like, wait, who are you dating? He was like, Kristen Chenoweth. I was like, no, you're not. No, you're not. You're not dating Kristen Chen with like, I had just seen wicked. And I was like, what are you talking about? And he goes, I am. And she thinks your work on the show is great. And I was like, what do you mean?

So he dials his phone. He goes here, you'll talk to her. And I was

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: just so great.

Track 1: I'm being set up. And he goes, Hey babe, whatever he called her. I don't remember. And he's like, you know, I I'm having dinner with Sarah and her. husband and we're walking. I remember where we were walking back from dinner, um, on the block in Wicker Park, because it was like my whole world for a moment stopped and I hear the voice

and she's like, Hello, is this Sarah?

Hi, this is Kristen. And it was just like, Oh my God. No one in the world sounds like you. I have no

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: that, that's a perfect, that's a perfect [00:29:00] imitation, except it has to be pitched up like an octave,

Track 1: Hi,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: No, see, nobody can do it except her.

Track 1: I mean, she's got like one of the most extraordinary singing voices. It's like her and Audra McDonald, like

just, Oh, I lost it. I have no memory of the call. It probably didn't last very long.

Um, It was very,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: How long did, I didn't know that they had, I, I mean, it rings a bell now, but I forgot that they had dated.

Track 1: I don't know how long it lasted. Um, but I, uh, anyway, it was just every time the watch thing just sort of blew my mind. He was the first person I really knew with a kind of watch where I was like, Oh, I need to tell you more about my neighborhood before you come visit. If you're going to dress like that because I don't want you to get,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: of the big watch thing.

Track 1: yeah.

Um, you also wanted to talk about tape acting. Um,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Tape acting. So there's tape over the mouths in, in [00:30:00] the, in the, um, I don't know if it's the first time we've seen it in the show or not, but when Quinn busts in on Nick and LJ and Veronica, he tapes their

mouths in the cabin. Um, have you ever, Oh yeah, of course. I think I

Track 1: Yeah, uh, don't start with me. Don't start with me.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Um,

Track 1: Yes. I've had my tape faced, Paul.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: It is facetaped.

You should tape faced. Um,

Track 1: Oh, I did, didn't I?

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: that's because you're losing blood and when you are losing blood, you, as we know in prison break, you reverse words, pocket left.

Track 1: Okay.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Uh, for those of you who haven't done the rewatch, there's a Nick is bleeding out and are bleeding badly. And she says, where are the car keys? And he says, pocket left.

Track 1: But maybe that's because she does. So the, okay,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: He says, pocket. She's like,

Track 1: No, she, he goes left pocket. She goes, you're left or my left? And he

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: right, exactly.

Track 1: Like stage

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Oh,

Track 1: It's pocket left.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: fascinating. [00:31:00] Wow. Solved.

Track 1: We're making stuff up.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: That's amazing though.

Um,

Track 1: face acting with

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: I always, I like, like an empty cup, like an empty to go thing of coffee

that's obviously has nothing in it,

like a hot thing of coffee on TV or, or, um, suitcases that are clearly don't weigh anything or, uh, these are little pet peeves of mine and the tape on the mouth thing, it always more often than not. Not just on Prison Break, on everything. It always looks too neat.

Track 1: Well, yeah,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: never looks like it's, and it also, well it also, it's too, it's too, it looks like it's

perfectly cut,

Track 1: Right,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: it's like, it's exactly the equidistant on both sides of the mouth. But also, it never looks like it's stuck on someone's face.

Because of course,[00:32:00]

if you put gaffer tape on your face, it fucking hurts.

Track 1: It's not gaff tape, dude. It's duck tape.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Right. Which is even worse. Right.

Track 1: I mean, I even doing the

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: then I've always been like, come on, just do it. And then I was on a show where I,

I was on the receiving end of it.

And I was like, Oh, still sucks.

Track 1: Still sucks.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Yeah. But it never quite looks

Track 1: well, because what you've got to do, as somebody who's had my tape faced. Nope. My face taped. Why is that so hard for

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: I don't know.

Track 1: I must

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: I say, uh, I say Kerry Toth instead of Terry Clough.

Track 1: That's awesome. That's

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: I don't know why. Always have. I don't know.

Go on.

Track 1: Um, as somebody who has had my face taped, uh, several times on this show, once in season two and

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: only, but, but best by me.

Track 1: But obviously you don't know best. Like I [00:33:00] always say, nobody tapes a face like Edelstein. Um, uh, it takes a piece of your face off, right?

So like what they often do is they'll put something against the adhesive part

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: That's the part

Track 1: for everything but the sides. The very, very edges. So there's something that sticks to your face, but not the whole

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: doesn't look right to me.

Track 1: But the edges, even with that, in the scene that we shot in season five, when I'm in the basement with Jacob, when he ripped it off, it took a part of my skin with it and like took a week to heal.

It sucks so bad, but what you have to do is you have to have edges all the way around it. So that it does create a seal. And then you have to

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Yes,

Track 1: suck the air out so that it forms

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: that's the thing. That's the thing that most, I think,

people don't do. Because it doesn't look like it's stuck into your mouth as it should.

Track 1: It's got to look formed against your lips, but LJ

did, if you go [00:34:00] back and watch

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: does. That's right. Because

Track 1: And Marshall, I think is very much the kind of actor that would be like, no dude, tape my face.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: tape, just put the tape on my

Track 1: I know I worry about his lips because they just rip off. It's also not super easy to credibly. Act like the temptation to overact with your eyes when your face, when your mouth is taped shut is so hard to overcome because you can just end up mugging like a crazy person.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: yeah,

Track 1: Um,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: especially when a psychopath is about to dip you in water and electrocute you.

Track 1: Oh, we have so many stories to tell about that when we get

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: That we, I think we might need four, I think we might need four episodes to talk about that scene because

I have So many stories,

Track 1: so many

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: about it. Anyway, that's, that's a long ways away folks.

That's a long

Track 1: but you in the meantime had a DB Cooper question, which is germane to this episode. You said I have a TB piper question.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Well, it had to [00:35:00] do with where they laid the track

Track 1: mm, mm.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: story and whether I actually don't remember the reveal about whether he's lying or not. I know that he has 100 bill, but I don't still think it proves it beyond a reasonable doubt that he's actually D. B. Cooper.

Track 1: Oh no, I think he is.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Okay.

Track 1: I think he is.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Because I remember what happens during the escape and season two happens with the money.

I remember the whole, you know, that's, we're going to get into it. We're going to get into it

before, before we know it.

Um,

Track 1: really are. Um, okay. I, I, I want to hear about Prince Albert

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Oh, uh, when I, gosh, when I was in my late twenties, early thirties, um, I was, uh, uh, I dated a woman for a number of years who won a princess

grace

Track 1: was,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: which is a, they give it in a variety of arts. I think there's a ballet one, a [00:36:00] theater one. And so we went to this event in, I think it was in New York and the, um, ballet of Monaco performed.

And then there was a reception where Prince Albert came and said hello to everyone. And I stood next to, um, this brilliant director while she shook his hand and was instructed as to how to, you know, you never turn your back on them.

You let them speak first, all that kind of royal bullshit. That's got to say hello.

Got to say hello to Prince Albert.

Track 1: Wow.

Do you know the closest I've ever come is shopping at Club Monaco. That's,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Wow. Dork. That is a mom joke. That is a

mom joke. And also you don't shop at Club Monaco.

Maybe for Josh, maybe for Josh,

Track 1: Oh God. My husband would never wear anything from

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: I know. But if you were like, you have to, we're going to a thing. You have to[00:37:00]

Track 1: You know what? When I have to go to a thing, you know, my husband says.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: go ahead and enjoy it. Yeah, that's

Track 1: Yeah. Call Peter Page. Peter Page. So my Peter Page has gone with me. Peter Page is a mutual friend of ours who is a, an accomplished showrunner. Uh, he created the Fosters and Good Trouble.

Before that he was one of the stars of, uh, Queer as Folk. He's an extraordinary human being, wonderful director and writer and actor. He does it all, activist. Um, and he is out and gay. And he has come with me to so many events because my husband is so deeply uninterested in anything that involves publicity or being in public.

Um, that when my pregnancy became public, the French press

had photos of me and Peter

everywhere. And Peter called me and he was like, thanks, honey. I will never be late in Paris again. Thanks to you.

Um, [00:38:00] there are more pictures of me with Peter than there are, uh, my husband,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: a full, I'm a full supporter of if the

Track 1: is the way we all want that.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: doesn't want to, yeah, then let's not do this.

Track 1: Yeah.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Um,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: That's a

Track 1: um,

one as a different podcast. One more thing before we get into our, uh, before we take a little break and then have our announcement,

which is fun. Um, in, in the margin of that

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Oh yes.

Track 1: Michael and Sarah,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Yeah. Amazing.

Track 1: attention, I write because I'm a dork. I sometimes write bits of my character's inner monologue in the margins of my script, so that if on the day something weird and distracting is happening and I'm like, what, where am I in the world?

I'm like, Oh, these are the little snippets of where my, so I wrote do your job, all capitals and job two [00:39:00] fucking days, all capitals ago. I agreed to myself to keep it professional and now look at me, exclamation point

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: But wait, but you didn't, I thought you just said to him, we're going to keep a professional in this episode. Yeah.

Track 1: I did. So this is, that was my note for scene. Three, where everything was very flirty and it was like, Oh, you should see my apartment and the nice girls finished last, all of that.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: yeah.

Track 1: So that was the flirty scene. So that was my note to myself in that. And then

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: did you said to keep it professional? That's what I'm saying. When

Track 1: at the very end,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: have a previous

Track 1: Oh, two days ago, I agreed to myself. No, I, again, this is

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: internal. Oh, this is internal.

Track 1: Two days ago, Sarah said to herself, keep it professional. Don't fall for a guy just because he's looks like that and saved you from a Bryant and Um, yeah, so that I actually took a picture of it. I may post it on our Instagram because it was one of those moments where I was like,

such [00:40:00] actor dorkery.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: That's fantastic. I love that.

Track 1: Um, all right. You want to, uh,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Do it.

Track 1: to,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: All right. We're gonna we're gonna take a very short break. And then we're gonna be right back with what we're calling a new fan thing announcement. We have a fun thing that we're gonna start doing in in upcoming episodes. We're gonna tell you about it. But stick around. We'll be right back.

Track 1: okay. Welcome back everybody. As Paul mentioned, we have a new feature. that we thought would be fun, uh, to try with y'all

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Okay, so we got ourselves A phone line, an actual call in line.

Track 1: Ring ring,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: We figured a show from 2005 should have an answering machine. You can dial us on your rotary landline. You can

dial us or or, from your smart phone. Or you can say, say operator, get me PB [00:41:00] 5 2 7 i five nine nine. Uh, you can call us from a phone booth if you can find, no, you can call us.

Literally dial a phone number and call us and you can leave us a voice message. And we're gonna play voice messages on the. Show every week and we're going to have different topics. We want people to weigh in on instead of just, we love answering your Instagram questions that are posed there, but I think it would be, we think it

Track 1: We'll keep doing that.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: to, uh, yeah, please keep doing that. And we're going to answer some questions in a moment, but we love the idea of people getting to call in and tell us their stories, ask us their questions, getting to hear their voices. And then a select few will be played. Uh, on the air every week,

Track 1: Um, and I am, uh, oh yeah, for example, sorry, I was just looking up our, um, our phone number because I realized I hadn't [00:42:00] written it down. Um,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: But for example, for example, tell us who you watched your prison, like you did, you have a prison break crew. When did you start watching prison break? Did you watch the original series? I know so many people that have come to the show 10 years after it was off the air and, you know, watch it with their entire high school class or watch it with their families.

We want to hear about that. We wanted, uh, if you have a watch buddy that you're into it with now, um, what else do we want to know?

Track 1: Part of it, let's, I mean, so for this first round, Colin, that's, tell us about who you watch the show with,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Track 1: here's why we'll, we'll get through all this. We'll have so many questions for you guys coming up. Truly. Um, but part of why I want to know this is because, and I don't know if you've had this experience.

I've probably done more conventions than you have because walking dead was a pretty convention heavy show, but I met a lot of prison break fans, uh, at conventions. And what's so beautiful to me is the community People have created with each other. Like there'll be folks [00:43:00] who have handles that I recognize from social media who live in different countries,

sometimes different hemispheres.

Um, and they've become friends through the fandom and I think that's really cool. So we'd love to hear about that. Um, you can give us a call. Let us know. The number is 4013. Pee break, as in prison break, not the other thing. 4 0 1 3 P B R E A K and wait, I got to figure out what that is in numbers. It's 4 0 1 3 7 2 7 3 2 5 4 0 1

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Once again, that number is,

Track 1: 3 2 5.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: I'm going to do

it 401 372 7325. That's a good, solid number.

Track 1: that's a good solid number. Um, thanks Ben. Our producer Ben got that number

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: yes. Excellent. Excellent. Ben, are we not answering questions today?

Track 1: We, we, we do not have fan [00:44:00] questions for

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: So we'll just erase that little thing that I said.

Um,

so we're going to play some of these answers, uh, that come in from the phone line episodes later in the season. You can hear the, you know, the voices and the. Uh, questions of other fans. You can hear the answers. You might even hear your own voice if you leave a message. And if there's a ton of calls, uh, we can do a bonus episode with just the calls, which would be fun.

Track 1: um, and speaking of bonus content, don't forget, uh, to subscribe to our watch party episodes where we do commentary in real time on every episode of the show. Um, join us by subscribing on Patreon. The link is, uh, on the show page of the notes, wherever you're listening right now. You'll also get these episodes ad free when you subscribe and any bonus content that we put together.

Um, and thank you for being with us today. We're glad you're here.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: We really

Track 1: really glad.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: sure. I'm glad you're here.

Track 1: Paul, I'm glad you're here. I get to see more of you doing this show than I do otherwise, and I genuinely enjoy that most of the

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: And, uh, Ben and Drew, Ben, our [00:45:00] producer, and Drew, our intern, we're glad that you're here, too. And remember, don't go to prison, folks. But if you do go to prison, try to befriend somebody that has buried millions of dollars outside the prison walls for when you get out.

Track 1: Yes, that's very sound advice. We'll see you guys next week, y'all.

Okay, the episode is now over.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Yes. Ben is

Track 1: I'm going to text Ben. Well, he's on the phone with our, with an ad sales team

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: Okay, good.

So I'm going to

Track 1: to get us ads.

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: leave this up. Uh, can I ask you a quick question?

Track 1: Totally. I'm just going to text Ben so that he can come. Uh,

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: I've drafted, uh, it's really the whole morning. Um, I drafted a note to sharing and Olmstead, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm redrafting it and I want it to [00:46:00] be better and then I'll send it to you.

Um, do you think Danny is enough of a guest? I mean, I, I. I love him.

Track 1: The reason

paul_2_01-11-2024_110301: guy. He's a fascinating guy, but um, oh, he's still here. Can't hear you Ben. You're muted

Track 1: that's okay. You can hop off.

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