Camden Bernatz (00:00:00) - Welcome to Brands and Campaigns, the stories and people behind clever marketing moves powered by EKR. I'm your host, Camden Bernatz, Creative Director and head of brand strategy at EKR. All right, so today, not intentionally, but we got another episode about a food, a candy if you will. We've talked about Oreo, talked about Starburst. And today we're going to talk about this ad that came out recently from KitKat. if you follow KitKat or not even if you follow KitKat, like if you've ever heard of KitKat, you know about the take a break or breaking up piece of that KitKat Bar, like break and taking a break and different variations on break. Having used a long time from the KitKat brand.
And this ad that came out recently was a more modern take on that which was an influence on or got influence from artificial intelligence. Artificial intelligence is very current, very commonly discussed in the ad and branding industry right now. And KitKat took an opportunity to share an interest insight that most people maybe don't know about artificial intelligence, which is if you tell the artificial intelligence to take a break before it answers your question or gives you the answers, it needs, it ends up having a better, more accurate response and ends up he helping you in leaps and bounds ahead of you, just keep giving it stuff over and over and over again. And so that obviously taking a break applies to artificial intelligence in that sense as well as of course the branding of KitKat. And so the campaign or the video is take AI break. AI being you know, artificial intelligence obviously, and I play on words or take a break is that you should take a break with the KitKat Bar, even AI needs a break.
And so anyways, I'm kind of probably butchering the, the delivery. I'll let, I'll let my guest today, talk about it a little bit better, but we've got today we're joined by Matt Miller and Tommy Yong from Courage Agency out of Canada who worked on this. So thank you for being here, Matt and Tommy.
Matt Miller (00:02:04) - Thanks for having us Camden. It's a pleasure.
Tommy Yong (00:02:06) - Yeah. Thank you.
Camden Bernatz (00:02:07) - Let's get into this. Let me tell me a little bit about your roles. Let's start with you, Matt and then Tommy tell us a little bit about your role at your agency and kind of the role you played in this creative execution.
Tommy Yong (00:02:18) - Yeah, for sure. So I'm an ACD writer at Courage. I've been partnered with Tommy for, gosh, I want to say like four years now. And we were kind of the lead team on this project. So excited to chat to you about it and give you some insight into how it happened. Yeah, handed it over to Tommy.
Matt Miller (00:02:36) - Yeah, I'm Tommy, I'm the ACD art director on this project. And yeah, really excited to talk about this. It's a really cool project and it's one of our first real campaigns for KitKat in Canada since when the accounts so really happy about the cover that thought for sure.
Camden Bernatz (00:02:54) - Looking forward to it. Before we get into the details of the, of the campaign, you let me know before we hear recording, apparently there's a difference between Canadian KitKat and American KitKat. And of course you say the Canadian version is better. What's your understanding of the difference between the two KitKat Bars?
Matt Miller (00:03:10) - Am I understanding it's different chocolate? I know that our KitKat is made by Nestle. Not exactly sure who makes the American one it might be Hershey, but there's a difference there. I think we're just probably a little bit more passionate and patriotic to our Canadian KitKat, but I've heard it's better. Do you want to give it a try, take a drive up north or do you want to try the American stuff, take a drive down south?
Camden Bernatz (00:03:33) - Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I didn't know that before but I now want to go on a candy tour. So. Interesting. Cool. Have you had the American one as well to compare or you just know you love the Canadian kind?
Matt Miller (00:03:45) - I lived in the States growing up when I was probably 6 to 11. So I've definitely had American KitKats, but I cannot remember the difference now, of course. I've just been, it's been all Canadian KitKats since I was 11.
Camden Bernatz (00:04:00) - Gotcha. Cool. Okay. Well, with that little bucket list item out of the way, go get a kick on both sides and compare. Tell me how this project came and landed on your desk. Like I'll start with you, Matt. How did this come to be that you guys are working on this specific video or this campaign project?
Matt Miller (00:04:18) - Well, it really just started with us working on the KitKat business in entirety. We had been working on Nescafe at Courage and we also won the KitKat account recently. So we were introduced to KitKat as a possibility for ads coming up in the future. So we kind of kept it in the back of our minds like a little marble in our heads. If there's anything that comes our way where we think about KitKat, maybe there's an idea that can come to life. So this was not technically a brief, it was actually us finding this insight, coming with this idea and then pitching it to KitKat proactively. So it's one of those diamonds that you find along the way and then you bring it to the client and see if they want to make it.
Camden Bernatz (00:05:01) - That's got to be right because you like identify like yes, it's thrilling to get a nice response or a solution to a brief that's handed to you. But to be able to identify the opportunity in advance and show that creative strategy to a client, it's got to be very exciting I imagine. So then my question is, how did you guys come across this? Like I did not know personally and tell this ad that you could give AI a break and it made some kind of a difference. How did that insight come to be?
Matt Miller (00:05:31) - I think I'll take this one since it's pretty personal. So my dad actually he works in tech and he was at an AI conference in California. I forget the exact conference. But they were talking about this Google. They had a nice conference about it where they were talking about prompting and all the ways you can make AI work better for you. And right after that, Google Deepmind came out with the study and the study said that depending on the prompts you gave AI, you got a better response. One of the best ways to, like, optimize was asking it to actually have a breath, a breather or take a breath. So that kind of sparked the idea for us, like, okay, that's kind of similar to KitKats tagline. have a break or take a break depending on what Mandela effect you're in. So then we tried it ourselves with the ChatGPT and other and other AI platforms. And we started getting like better results just comparing them side by side and then we kept going and going and going and we're like, okay, this feels like a real thing and it's backed by this study, which is awesome, right? This inspiration for the whole thing.
So, as soon as we started doing that, we started collecting all of our responses and it kind of led us to bring it to the client with a lot of evidence to show that.
Camden Bernatz (00:06:54) - Yeah, not just a hunch that is fascinating, like just the insight of what we gave a whole another podcast episode about why that happens in AI, that's not necessarily my forte or the nature of this show but like that is interesting. I also was interested in the timing because and I'll ask you, Tommy, you guys have worked with KitKat for a little while. This is not the first AI related KitKat ad that has come out. It's obviously unique in the nature of the take a break and giving AI a break. Did you work on the other stuff before? Like, where they had like an AI generated ad, like, so that we can take a break and then, like came out a while back. There was like, you had a, someone had a, I create a KitKat ad so that the joke was that, so those who make the ads could take a break? Were you guys involved than that? Or did you have that in mind?
Tommy Yong (00:07:39) - Yeah. No, it was actually like a coincidence that we had like a similar insight around AI but I believe that campaign came out of Australia and yeah, we didn't even really kind of known that they did something like that until after the ad was released. But yeah, it was a totally different team based in Australia.
Camden Bernatz (00:08:04) - Interesting. So, yeah, I mean, either way it makes it look like not only is KitKat a good candy to have and it's a relevant brand but like, they're kind of this modern forefront, like they're this AI candy company, right? Like they're really utilizing it. And so that was, yeah, good timing. Interesting.
Matt Miller (00:08:20) - I think Camden if I can jump in obviously like two different ways of thinking about KitKat with AI which is awesome, right? Like using that slogan to our advantage. And that's part of the like a bit of the strategy that is with KitKat is like, how do you use this equity have a break and modernize it? How do you bring it into like the new era that we're in? And I think AI and tech and all these different things that spark these breaks, they really felt natural. So it's pretty great that like on the opposite sides of the world, we're both ideating on AI and KitKat.
Yeah, it feels like pretty awesome that like that universal idea of have a break is just transcended so far. Yeah, it really is like accepted by every country in the world, like the ad went global, right? So that's like just proof that it's such a strong piece of like language that we can use and leverage in different ways.
Camden Bernatz (00:09:16) - Yeah, it definitely resonates, and kudos to you guys for taking something like the break concept that KitKat has used for a long time and helping it not be stale or just keeping hitting it from the same angle over and over and over again. There's something to be said about consistency and it's not that you have to always change like your campaign every few months, but you definitely have helped extend it in a fresh way. So good job on that. So if you came out, if it wasn't like a brief that started it, but you kind of took it to the client first. When they got the green light to or they gave you the green light to basically go ahead and produce something like this, what kind of objectives guided you? What guard rails did you have? What then was your objective once they said, yeah, the concept makes sense. Now, what are we going to do?
Matt Miller (00:10:02) - It's a great question, Camden. So for us this, like you can have different pieces of work that are doing different things. Now, this was really driving brand, right? Getting the brand recognition, seeing how we could get have a break and KitKat into the minds of more people in a different and unique way, right? It's just like another way into someone's mind is doing it with like a totally different channel that we're used to. So for us, the goal was always, let's create something that makes that relevant, that brand have a break, how do we make that relevant with our consumers versus just pushing chocolate itself? I think that's for other communications that we might be working on with KitKat that they'll do that job while this really plays a role in making that brand bigger on social.
So for us, the metric was, can we get more engagement from people? Can we get just people even like just thinking or talking about have a break in KitKat and in natural conversation which was happening? And then I think what's super important is that the video has really clear nods to KitKat throughout just to make sure it's really ownable from us. So you'll see like the little chocolate bar going across, typing out the words and the KitKat bar in the half a break, logo snapping. So those were ways of getting our product in there in a natural way that wasn't forced and it wasn't trying to do something the ad wasn't supposed to. The ads really just supposed to be this brand building piece.
Camden Bernatz (00:11:25) - Perfect. I know and I watched it, I think it was on the last time I watched it was on YouTube, I believe I've seen a couple of different places but in the comments, people commenting how like they love the music box. It like it's catchy and that it was just very someone else mentioned I forget the name of who it was. But someone was like, I'm a copywriter and this is like one of the best ads I've seen in a while. It makes me envious or something like that. So, anyways, yeah, good response. If the YouTube comments are any indication, those are always a crazy place to get feedback from is the YouTube comments. But what I saw was mostly positive. Interesting.
Matt Miller (00:11:59) - Happy to talk about the music if you –
Camden Bernatz (00:12:01) - Yeah, please do.
Matt Miller (00:12:03) - So those were some audio partner at Eggplant sound worked on it and it was awesome because we were trying to think of like what would be the backing track to this, like that kind of drives it forward and all we gave them as the brief was we want to use a keyboard or something mechanical something machinic it. And they took that and they ran with it and they created this amazing score for it that just kind of like playful and it feels futuristic and it's got that keyboard in it. And then last sound bite as well is a robot saying KitKat, but it's actually like KitKat and AI at the same time, it's like one of those things where if you listen to it once you might think it's KitKat another time it’s AI. So it's a really cool audio piece in general really excited about.
Camden Bernatz (00:12:47) - How the heck do you create that on purpose? Do you know how that's done?
Matt Miller (00:12:50) - Like, no.
Camden Bernatz (00:12:53) - Huh. Interesting. Yeah. Very well done. And especially because it's not like a voiceover. It's not like you're showing characters on it. It's very, it's motion graphic and very text, but you have to read it. Right? And so if you do it wrong and that could be kind of boring or lose distraction, right? But this was very fast-moving, the music kind of matched to the beat of the movement. And yeah, to me, it didn't feel like something even though you're doing a lot of reading on screen, it didn't feel like you were doing that. It was quick, easy little bits, it was active with the music. So yeah, very well done. Anything to add to that Tommy on the process there?
Tommy Yong (00:13:27) - No. Yeah, exactly. Like just knowing the nature of ChatGPT there's like so much text and really like all the supers we're trying to build in the video, let the music really help like drive that progressiveness and energy that keeps people's attention because ultimately it is like a minute-long video. So yeah, they did an awesome job.
Camden Bernatz (00:13:46) - Sure. So, okay, so you get approved to move forward and make this, what did the team look like? Obviously you guys were on it was it was it pretty much just you two? Did you have a whole bunch of people come in for other aspects, you have copywriting, shot direction, things like that. Who was all involved in the project?
Matt Miller (00:14:02) - Yeah. So our CCOs, Joel and Duval were involved, overseeing, helping us craft that video, making sure it, like had some pace and feel to it. And another writer, Emma Lorenzi was also part of the team, another writer. So as a team, we were really looking for how do we make the story work the best possible? And a lot of the work was just submitting so many questions to ChatGPT to get to get the responses and then going through them and looking at the difference. And I think one of Emma's favorite comparisons was when you asked it how many countries there was in the world. Normally it got it like wrong by a few and then if you asked, it would have a break, it was like spot on. It was the weirdest thing. It was like –
Camden Bernatz (00:14:50) - So strange.
Matt Miller (00:14:50) - It took it to 100%. And so those little like gems were really fun to find. And I think because we had this type team that was just, we're kind of like just circling in a room just trying to get them crafted and honed in, it made it really fun. Then obviously the audio house Eggplant was a huge part of it. We had our in-house editor Marcus Barry who is incredible. He does motion design and he brought the video to life and it was amazing to have him at Courage working with us almost every day on it just we'd walk in and like do little tweaks and see how we can make the chocolate bar break which was also helped by our partners at Alter Ego who do the visual effects. So they made that chocolate bar snap look just look so crisp and delicious.
So it was a really big team effort, Tommy, I'm not forgetting anyone. Maybe I am and of course our producer Katie Fowler who worked on it. Who kept us in line, you know, because these videos they can, they can go all over the place.
Camden Bernatz (00:15:45) - Cool. Yeah, it takes a team for sure. So as you were doing that, what was the connection or the role of the client? Like how much were you just kind of producing stuff and then sending comps their way? Were they in the room with you working on fine details or how is it like working with the KitKat client?
Matt Miller (00:16:05) - They were awesome. I mean, they were really receptive to the idea I think they were like, just insanely excited. They were like, how do we get this off the ground? How do we get it into people's minds really fast? So they were really quick on getting things approved and anything we'd throw at them just like looking at it and having any flags. I think the main thing was just the questions and answers we had in there where we had to just like go okay, maybe this topic is incorrect. We had like a thing about nuclear fission in there and they're like, maybe not nuclear stuff. So it was like funny little bits like that. But no, they were awesome. Like just super, super excited about the idea and I think their passion and our passion just made it actually happen. A lot of times you have this idea that needs to come to life in a certain time and the momentum is really important. So their collaboration on that front was really exciting.
Even just sending their own ideas on like, how do we get people to, to participate and take a look at it and then they were sending us their questions and answers that they wanted in the video. So it was a really fun dynamic between us and the client.
Camden Bernatz (00:17:09) - Cool. That's very helpful in there. I mean, there's a give and take. Right? I talked to someone else. I talked to someone recently about the pros and cons of having the client involved. Like, especially if you're doing like a video shoot, having them on set. Like it's nice to get the real-time feedback and to align the same time. Sometimes things can be almost, we love our clients but sometimes a little bit less creative because they water things down or there's too many perspectives that try to get included or there's legal gets involved.
And anyway, so it can be a challenge sometimes to have that. But when you have someone who's eagerly engaged, like, like you describing KitKat being and tossing ideas and yeah, that's it's fun, right? Even if you're pulling some extra hours or it's tedious. Like that's when it's fun is when you're both pushing in the same direction, I imagine.
Matt Miller (00:17:58) - I think also the nature of this video was we're all just working in an edit. We didn't have to go and record anything or get any video. So it was very fluid and all their builds like one of the builds was to like find a way to bring KitKat into the intro of the video. That was a great build from them and they didn't tell us how to do it. It was the idea of using the cursor. The chocolate cursor is like a brilliant way of like solving that that ask from them while keeping it fun and playful and not feeling so overly branded in a way that feels like you're trying to shove a message down someone's throat.
So sometimes those pushes can be helpful, right? It's just like how much rope they give you to play with. And I think that was one of the strengths of it was any ass that did come in. It was like, we'll leave it to you guys. But this is kind of like what we're feeling and it was it was really great in that way to work with them.
Camden Bernatz (00:18:55) - And it's kind of nice, especially when it's an idea that you presented, like when you said you just pitched it to them because then you're probably not as much under quite so like tight of a deadline. Like, hey, we have this certain thing going out, we need this done by… It's kind of like a little more flexible, I imagine because we weren't planning on doing this at all. And now we are. So let's just make it as good as it can be when it's ready, it's ready. Was that the case?
Tommy Yong (00:19:17) - Yeah, pretty much. The schedule was pretty flexible being a proactive idea. But we did want to like, as always get the idea out of the door as soon as possible. Especially the video came out at a time where we were finding insights around ChatGPT in general and being maybe not as accurate as people might think they're really good at getting us answers really quickly. But I think like before, I think, like as language models evolve, like they've always come up with new versions and evolving as they do. But at the time, there was a conversation around like perhaps like the accuracy going down in general. So we really wanted to like hop on that trend to make sure the video is still relevant to that conversation. So thats like just one internal metric that we have for ourselves.
Camden Bernatz: (00:20:05) Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I can't think of a candy company, a candy brand that would be more aligned to address AI and that inside of it needing a break and taking a breather like that is. So yeah, what a great insight to drop in your hands is like, I don't know what would Reese’s say about that? I don't know like it just doesn't fit as good. And so not that you couldn't come up with something. But anyways, that's awesome. So I think also if I had KitKat as a client, I probably would annoy them by how many times I would try to slide in, like give me a break or something like that. I would reference taking a break all the time and they would get annoyed with me.
Anyways, all right so when you started working on it and putting together actual copy design, things like that, were there lots of different versions were the things that got left on the table? Like how long did it take you to get to kind of the final look we see now?
Tommy Yong (00:20:57) - We definitely had a lot of exploration in terms of the story of the video and even visually, like, how do we want to like, keep this engaging but still keep it to like the nature of ChatGPT in general. So we, for example, like we tried including visuals to support like the prompts before, but they don't necessarily like help communicate the sort of like what ChatGPT is about. And so we sort of like mixed it for example and things like that. Little things like that that help like make the video like as engaging and energetic as it can be. Yeah, and that definitely took a while.
Camden Bernatz (00:21:36) - Cool. What as you were building it, did you already have in mind where this was going to run what chalets are going to be used or is that kind of determined as it was going or after the fact like if this is going to be TV, YouTube ad, a social media play? Like, did you have that in all in mind upfront?
Matt Miller (00:21:53) - I mean, for us, it was always going to be an online video as its core just because it's such an online and digital idea. So creating our master size and then sizing it down for the different social aspects ratios that we wanted to hit. But really, it was like, okay, we want to get this out there in the best way as the video. And then we talk to media after where it could run. But yeah, even like just having it on KitKats own social platform was like, that was the first step and then seeing if it got any bites or took off and then we push it out to the world after. I believe it's even being like pushed out more globally as we speak and that's pretty exciting is that the idea is, so it's an insight that anybody can like nibble on and take. So it doesn't just work in Canada, it can work in the States, it can work in Germany and Poland, wherever it might go. I don't know if there's a real, the country is going to, but it is such a globally transcendent idea that that's what makes it really exciting.
I think most tech ideas are right. Because everybody uses technology, everybody is privy to ChatGPT now or AI or any language model. So, being able to put this out and having responses from people around the world is amazing too. And that's what we've kind of received is like these random articles from all these different countries and you're like, okay, what language is that? Let me translate it. Okay. They love the campaign. Cool. So that's really exciting.
Camden Bernatz (00:23:28) - Well, like you said, is artificial intelligence becoming ubiquitous and something that the whole world knows and is talking about. But like you said that just that simple concept of taking a break, taking a breather, having a moment, like everyone wants that and feels that. And so the simple idea of connecting those two things to this candy bar that has built and built upon this -- I mean that physically you break it off, right? That's where the whole idea came from originally, right? Is it just all fits together very well and doesn't seem forced and I like that about it. Cool. Clever.
So what would you say were the most challenging part about this? Obviously, it seems like things went pretty well. And so I, but there's always bumps in the road. Like what were your main challenges in overcoming throughout the process?
Camden Bernatz (00:24:10) - What were the most challenging things, Tommy? You know what? The thing was, it went really smoothly. That's actually a great way of putting it, Camden. I think just leading up to the week before the launch, I think that's when everything was like, fed through legal and that was the most -- because they're going to go through and they're like, okay, let's make sure we don't say, I think we had Waldo, where is Waldo is one of our question? It was like small things you don't think about, right? And it was like at the finish line, we're about to put it out and they were like, okay, we got to take all these things out of the video.
So I think that was the biggest hurdle we came through was just because of the nature of it, there was so much language. There were so many questions that were like an and answers in it. There was all this, like all the legal guys were going through every single prompt. We had to send them like the actual ChatGPT files or going through it. They're like, okay, so which was fun because like we got vetted by legal, but at the same time, just a little road bump to the finish line. But an important one, of course, because you don't want to be putting something out there and it gets taken down the next day. So we appreciate it in the long run. But on that day it felt like a little like, oh my God. Are you serious? The suits are getting involved in this chocolate?
Camden Bernatz (00:25:23) - Yep. I've been there and it's nice to get the green light from them. That's funny. Okay, so I might see a question I'll put you on the spot a little bit and if the answer needs to be, I can't say anything, then so be it. But I got to ask the question that the listeners will have. So with how well this has gone to the degree you can reveal anything. Do is there going to be like continuation of this? Like, is there thoughts about what's the next step in this direction that is AI and KitKat or is that all to be determined?
Matt Miller (00:25:50) - As of now, there's no follow-up campaign yet. There was thoughts about how I would do with images and that's something we're testing right now. We'll leave you there because I mean, that's just a natural progression, but we're trying that out. I think it's more about like, let's look at what other technologies are coming out, other ways that we can use have a break and see how it affects it because it's a really interesting way of testing it. Obviously for humans breaks work amazing. Like, where else would they maybe help as well? But yeah, there's no natural next step yet. Video killed. But yeah maybe there’s Google Visions. Oh, yeah.
Camden Bernatz (00:26:35) - Yeah, that’s been kind of a trending topic.
Matt Miller (00:26:40) - Yeah. The Apple Visions. Sorry. Tommy. Tommy is a big passionate guy for the goggles.
Camden Bernatz (00:26:45) - You're going to get legal again, right? Google is going to come after you or Apple's going to come after you. Just kidding. That's funny. Yeah, I'm grateful for your time, especially because it is relatively new. I mean, I know I didn't get you, like the day came out but like it is still kind to be determined how far this can go and talking about it, things like that. So I'm grateful to get you guys in the seat relatively fresh after it came out. So I'll continue to watch it. Now I'm going to go, I'm going to play with ChatGPT and see how giving it a break makes a difference. And I'm going to go test that with my team. That's interesting. Any other as you kind of just look back on it now, I know it's in the recent past but any insights or any kind of takeaway lessons or anything that you feel like for the industry, those in the advertising industry, any, like lessons that you took from that any. I know. I'm kind of putting you on the spot again. But what are the takeaway? What's been learned from this?
Tommy Yong (00:27:34) - Just have a dad that works in AI.
Matt Miller (00:27:37) - Yeah have a dad that works with AI, that's a good one. I think that is it. Right. Like insights can come from anywhere and I think it's just keeping your ear to the ground even more. We've always kind of felt that way, like open articles that make you curious, look at studies that you might not normally be interested in and see if they spark anything because I think insights can come from anywhere they're personal or you'll find the truth out there like this. That's like, almost feels like too good of a match for the brand you're just started working on, but it happens, right? And I think if you put your ear to the ground more and listen and just look for stuff, eventually you'll find something that hits and hits for your brand. Because I think that's about, that's what it is, is like, this was a natural fit for KitKat, but I don't think it would have been as natural a fit for KFC, for example, was another of ours. So it's about taking the thing that you find and, and seeing if it works with any of your brands and if it does, it feels good and feels natural and it feels sticky, pursue it and see where it leads you.
Camden Bernatz (00:28:43) - Agree. That is words of wisdom. In the industry, we always hear the phrase ideas can come from anywhere we kind of, we hear that but like, I don't know of a more perfect example or evidence of that than this one like to connect AI to a chocolate bar is not a clear connection, but KitKat has a special opportunity to do that. So like, yeah, perfect example of that. This is great. Well, thank you for both being on today. I want to make sure that that any listeners who want to follow you, your agency, what you're up to can know how to do that. What's the best way to either get in touch with you guys or to follow what you guys are up to? Where should we send people if they want to keep in touch?
Matt Miller (00:29:21) - Yeah, I mean, so for anything that's coming out of Courage @courageideas on Instagram, you'll always find everything on there. Hopefully, some of those ideas have us tagged on them and then LinkedIn is honestly where we do most of our connecting with other people and sharing our work. So you can find us with our names, Matt Miller and Tommy Yong at LinkedIn and follow Courage Ideas as well over there. So a lot of stuff coming up in that channel. Yeah, that's where you can find us happy to connect with you too, Camden.
Camden Bernatz (00:29:54) - Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I want to stay in touch with you and your agency and see what's going on and clearly some good creativity and strategy coming out of there. So thank you both for being on. Thank you to the listeners who joined us today. As always, we appreciate you to give us a review to subscribe to the podcast, tell someone you know about it and we'll have more great content like this coming up and we'll see you next time.
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