Hello and welcome to Eyewitness Beauty, the podcast where we talk about the biggest stories in the beauty industry each and every week. You know me, I'm Diamond. Nick will be joining us in a minute along with two guests and when I say we cover the biggest stories in the beauty industry each week, this episode is the biggest story this week. With our friends at 2Niche, the podcast where they do hauls every week of very niche categories of things that we all love, nothing is too niche, I agree with that. It's hosted by Lara Marie Shanehauls and Elizabeth Knot. You might know them from. Lara does sup, she does my favorite podcast, Babe. I have a parasocial relationship with her, like I talked about last week. And Elizabeth is just as lovely and she... has been podcasting since the dawn of time with that so retrograde. But the real story is go over to Tuneesh. You know how this works. They're going to send people to us and to listen to Eyewitness. We're going to grow our audience. We're going to grow our Patreon and we're not going to have to end the podcast. So go listen to Tuneesh. They're great. They're hilarious and they have good taste. They actually have a lot of beauty hauls. which I think you guys will like. Skincare routines, candles, they're candle girls. I am not a candle girl, but they even did luxury advent calendars. I love that. So without further ado, here is myself, Nick, Lara, and Elizabeth, and we are hauling our least favorite celebrity beauty brands. are hearing this, but maybe your listeners might want to know, like, how would you describe your show? Well, apparently, we're losing the plot, according to our latest reviewer. We're losing the plot. We're losing the plot. I feel like we started out as a hardcore beauty news, like the Weeks Beauty News podcast, and we had, like many podcasts, a guest or an interview every week, and then very quickly realized that adding that moving part of having a third person to schedule around was making it difficult. too difficult to complete the task. And so it just became us. And now it's us talking. I think it's like, it's pop culture through the lens of the beauty industry. Like that's ultimately what we're talking about. And sometimes the beauty industry through the lens of pop culture. Perfect. That's probably why I love it so much. I used to have an interview show for a number of years. And I think for me at least, least as a listener I love coming back to the same two people every single week. It feels like cozy, feels somewhat predictable in the way that feels safe. I feel like the highs are lower and the lows are higher like when it's just the two of you versus like sometimes there's like a really good interview and sometimes it's not and you're still running it and you ask yourself why. In fact, we had a really good interview that we didn't run. We got in trouble for it too. Which one? Dorit. Dorit. We did interview Dorit. So it was the season where she really came out of her hair shell and it was like, remember when she had like the silver goddess, like it was when she started, it was the beginning of that in our defense. And we were like, we need to to, we need to interview Doree. She's the breakout star of Beverly Hills this season. We set it up with her publicist who I ended up meeting a few years later and told her this story. And she was like, you should have just said that because like I need to tell something to Doree. Anyway, we interview her. It turns out she's about as interesting as she seems and. But in PK, PK, PK, she couldn't get the audio. to work. And PK had to come and like help her and it was just like, it was incredible. But like we just could not get an end. Like there was just nothing interesting like she. And so we just didn't run it and never responded to the publicist. I mean, it's a big ego hit. Yeah, when you do an interview and it doesn't run, but people just need to understand it's your show and you can. call it if you feel it. Yeah, I ended up running into that person and she was like, "You should just have told me that because I understand that." But it's hard to communicate that about talent. It's hard to be direct and honest. Yeah. I had, in my early days of podcasting, had almost every single cast member of Vanderpump role. on like the first iteration of my podcast, which was called pumped podcast. And there came a point where I was like, why am I listening to Peter Madrigal talk about his short films that he directs like for 45 minutes? I have like I have like, I need to take back the control. So yeah, now it's just us. We're here to talk about about celebrity beauty brands and, in particular, failed beauty brands. And my only caveat is that, you know, I feel like we should all be putting positivity, you know, into the world. And so the failure is not a personal failure of this person. It's a cultural flop. And we can all take some responsibility. Can I offer that? I think part of making the world a more positive place is editing out the negativity. So that's what we're doing here. - Yeah, we like to keep the halls positive. So for your audience, how to niche works is every week we like to take a niche topic, trend, idea, and we deep dive into it by way of a hall. haul. So today's topic is, should we say, "Challenged Celebrity Beauty Brands?" I think a great place to start is 2004, which when I think of Celebrity Beauty Brand, I think of Desserts by Jessica Simpson. So, it was shimmer and fused. and edible. That was really what set it apart. There were body mists, lipglasses, body shimmers, bubble bath, and the thing I remember the most was the whipped body cream. And that one was in Sephora. I think we all remember. But then they did an offshoot for a younger demo called Dessert Treats in 2000. that was available at the drug store. And then there was papers filed by Cosmojet, which was the manufacturer that was claiming that desserts owed 200K to the manufacturer. And then they stopped production in 2006. So it was like a short -lived-- [AUDIO OUT] not a failed brand. It was quite popular, right? I remember it sort of being everywhere, but I was also like an Us Weekly devotee at the time. And it was very much that. Was she with Nick Lachey at the time? Like, was it a couple's like sexy time story that was happening? I think that's what the edible aspect was. I mean, I think it sounds like a great idea. I didn't try it. I don't think I had been in a Sephora. I don't think I was in a Sephora in 2004. I don't think I really knew what Sephora was. In 2004, I was in the closet. I was deepening my voice and I don't even know what else, trying to learn how to play basketball. And I think this sounds great. I feel like it would be complicated from like... like a regulatory and consumer safety angle because like how much of this can you eat? Probably not that much like safely, right? Yeah. And is it a food product or is it a cosmetic? Because those are two different organizations that you have to - I think with the advancement of the wellness conversation that's taken place over the past 15 years, I don't - even think like an edible product could even make it to market. - It sounds sticky too. - Sticky, sweet, vanilla forward is what I'm just guessing. - Yeah, it sounds like it would attract like bees and ants and like, I don't know, it sounds uncomfortable. - I just, I feel like like a sticky kind of tacky, shimmer eye. could be nice. And then if you're at like a rave and you like, I don't know, lick someone's eyelid or something gets kind of sexy, then it tastes like sweet. You're excited. But it seems like a part good for party lifestyle. And I don't know how many of Jessica Simpson's fans were ravers. Well, here's, here's one point I might add, one wrinkle is that technically. all cosmetics are edible. - What? - Yeah, like any lipstick is edible. It's going in your mouth. And any foundation's edible. Like you've seen those girls on TikTok, they're putting foundation all over their lips. That's going in your mouth. You're eating it. - No. - So that's edible too. - No. - But this wasn't like sexy time, like lick, this wasn't like chocolate. sauce. You get it a sex shop, right? This was like actually supposed to be worn, right? It was it's supposed to be worn. And I think like a fun bonus was if someone licks you, it's going to be like a sweet dessert. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I guess like you don't really you don't really want to lick people on their face, nor do you want people to lick your face. So in theory, like, I'm thinking of her with you, Aira. In theory, it works. But in practice, they're like, no. Let's also turn a mirror on ourselves, though. And like the fact that we were sexualizing Jessica Simpson at this point, here are the names of the products. It was all about kissing, kissable hair and body treat, kissable whip, body cream with candy sprinkles, chocolate -ish shimmer body gloss, powdered sugar kissable body shimmer, kissable belly button love potion fragrance. - No. - No. - And there was something called kissable skin protein shake. - Oh no. - And something called hot body topping. - I can't believe it. the protein shake that is wild. Do you remember, though, when Gwyneth Paltrow launched Goop Skincare and she went on Jimmy Fallon and she took a French fry and dipped it in like a moisturizer and ate it. And I do. And that was like a big deal. Because it showed just how clean the products were. - I don't remember that, but my queen never fails to serve. - No, and it was a major serve because again, any moisturizer you could eat and she just did it on camera. - That's proving your point of the edibility. And I just wanna close out Jessica Simpson Desert Beauty, or I'm a little unclear on the name, but just to say that she went on to create. create her own brand and license her own name. And allegedly, that's valued at one billion. So like she this was a great starting point. And I tip my hat. Me too. Yeah. So I give it an A. Okay. Our first brand that is still with us unlike dessert, but we just feel has lost lost the plot is pleasing by Harry Styles. I've long had an issue with Harry Styles and this idea that he's like gender bending or androgynous in any way when the only times where he's seen in a skirt are for like a vogue shoot with David Sims. It's like not it's not true it's it's it's ridiculous this like idea that he is at all. all like, you know, blurring lines. Anyway, he launched pleasing by Harry Styles. It was a huge success. You prefer like a more genuine like Jacob Elordi with a botega like messenger bag. Just well, at least those are like off duty looks. Like when you look at it's not like Harry Styles is wearing skirts in the street. He's wearing skirts on the cover of Vogue, which I'm just I think is less of I'm less impressed. But. But when he launched Pleasing with nail polishes, they like sold out in a second. And like, I took, I tried the nail polishes and they're like kind of cool colors and shapes. But I was like, who is who's buying this? And like, who is it for? But at least like, it kind of made sense with the image that he had cultivated. Okay, with the nail polishes, were they direct to consumer or was it? Yeah. Oh, so there was no really retailer. - You can still go to pleasing .com. How did he get pleasing .com? - Money. - No wonder how much. - Wow. - Yeah. - Was it like a hard candy sort of vibe? I don't even remember what this looked like. - I don't think you say that because they have these, the bottle shapes are very like decorative. They have a big old like ball on top, but no ring. - But does it come with a, I was just gonna say, did it come with a jelly ball? ring? And then you grabbed me. But you've just pointed out a major missed opportunity. Yeah. But the other weird thing about pleasing is they launched like skims type merch. Yeah, called the pleasing like these ribbed tanks and ribbed boxer briefs. And then they launched fragrances for one hundred and thirty five dollars a pop, which were very nice. badly received by his fans. But then, to me, the sign that Harry had left the building was I was recently doing research on lipbalms, and I called in all of these lipbalms or ordered them to try. And the pleasing lip balm is $25. It's supposed to be plumping, etc. etc. So it's in this aluminum tube and you unscrew the top and it's like a flat, like, you know, like a vitamin E stick kind of, like one of those things. But you have to push from inside the tube to, like, get the product to come up, right? But anyone who's ever tried a beauty product or making a beauty product for so long. else to use would know that like what goes up has to come down in order for the cap to fit back on. But this package doesn't allow you to retract. You can't it's not again, it's not twist up and twist down. Do we think Harry Styles is reaching into his pocket for push pop lip product? Because I don't. That's I don't think so either. But that's the narrative that. we've been Buying also. I'm looking at the website and above the fold if I just saw the branding and the product not knowing that It was nail polish. I would surely believe that this was some sort of sexual wellness brand Right the name would make you think that for sure And the font that's my biggest problem with like celebrity beauty brands and I don't really partake in any of them is because I'm like these people don't use this stuff like that's very clearly a cash play to like sell to their audience but like I don't believe that they actually know what they're doing outside of like if someone was a makeup artist or like an influencer that like a beauty influencer but just like celebrities I'm like no, you use like the best things on the market that aren't your brand. And then you're just making like cheap knockoffs of that to sell to like consumers. Yeah, 100%. Like, Lara, didn't you also, or did you, I guess, as a question, did you hold Harry Styles to like a higher standard just because he's kind of like, he's become this rock star and is, you know, sort of like I feel like considered an art like an artist I mean anytime a celebrity says they're coming out with a brand like a beauty brand I'm just kind of like why Like why go through all that why put us all through this just like figure out a different. Can you just like play the stock market? Or whatever happened to just celebrity spokespeople like just like just hire them like a free agent see if it works and then they go work for another brand after that not everybody needs their own like junk. I feel that deeply I think the last thing we need is more product and I know that obviously you guys do a lot of product development but I think in general we're good. Harry Styles coming out with fragrance at the this price point, which is $135 and an $80 candle. Who's that customer? And also, Elizabeth, beauty products are all we have. Like, I'm not a singer. I can't make a cameo in like a Christopher Nolan movie as like a hot soldier. Like, I all I have is making beauty products. So, you know, I just I I, my whole thing is like, leave it to us. You have your thing. Ariana Grande sold how many albums she doesn't need to kind of come into my territory and start making stuff that like I could be selling to like feed my family, you know? I feel that deeply, but like maybe you should be putting out an album is what we're hearing. Maybe this is the takeaway. I think I'll speed up. everyone of that. Has anybody tried the sense? I'm just really curious. Here's what I will say about celebrity fragrances. I don't know if you guys know this, but the noses, who it's like the literal term of people that make that develop a fragrance, they're like artists. The noses that make celebrity fragrances are the same people that make like like Le Labo So like you know the Santal 33. Is that what it's called 33? That everybody wears the guy that invented that is named Frank Vogel. Didn't we have him on the podcast Nick, right? Yeah making that up. So he also developed curious by Britney Spears and he takes every project as seriously as like the next So like you can't knock a celebrity fragrance just for being a celebrity fragrance because it is made by like the same people who make like, you know, the. No, I'm into a celebrity fragrance. I think that it's a great avenue to go in to if you're going to be doing some sort of consumer product. I just think it should be like more Harry Styles forward if that's what he wants to do. He's got like one foot in and one foot out. Yeah, I think that. that this one misses for me as it's just They actually shot too high Yeah, I'm not getting it and I have even less interest in than I usually have which is no interest. So This is getting an F for me I'm gonna say a C that was like a a D for me. Next, I'm just going to go in chronological order. We're taking it to 2012 of Chroma Beauty featured heavily on the shelves of drugstores and altas. And this was the first beauty venture by the Kardashians. They did a a very well -rounded product range, everything from nail polishes to lips to eyeshadow to faux lashes. I believe people really liked the lashes from what I remember back in the day. They were sued for trademark infringement by the beauty brand Chroma, spelled K -R -O -M -A. And then there was a lawsuit by Hillier Capital that the Kardashians ended up winning $11 million. Oh, wow. Yeah. So just some fun facts. Wow. I'm actually kind of fascinated by that. We talk a lot about beauty trademark names. names over on the old eyewitness. But yeah, that's a silly one. I wonder what lawyer approved the name Chroma, because that is way too close. Way too close. And the pronunciation being exactly the same. Do we remember, I mean, I think we all probably do, that Skims was almost called Kimono. And would it have ever become the juggernaut, the one that may Kim the most wealthy Kardashian had it been called Kimono and like, did no one in legal or otherwise raise an objection? Nick, I think about this all the time. What could have been? It's like, it's another Granada Paltrow movie sliding doors. Yes, exactly. I can't imagine Kimono being successful in the way Skims is. - No. - Can you? It's so gimmicky sounding. - If you can get a five letter name, you're winning. Did you know also that Instagram will not give you a five letter handle anymore? - Are all of them taken at this point? - Even if, yeah, but like they used to not even, like if somebody else already created an account, they wouldn't. they wouldn't even entertain the idea of giving it to someone else, even if the person was completely inactive and like hadn't ever posted anything on the account. Now they're more open to a conversation about like handing you over somebody else's account if it's inactive and you want the name. But I recently found out that if it's five letters or less, it's a no go. What's the thinking behind that? It's just too valuable. Too valuable. Even if nobody else ever thought of this word, except for me and that one other person. Because that's what's happening. I was able to trademark this name in all other categories, and it is my name, but I can't get the freaking name. handle because it's five letters. Isn't that crazy? And does it say sorry, this is five letters, it's not happening or is it just No, I had all this back and forth with them. The gorgeous helpful. And I mean that I think she's great. Christy Dash, who is like the head of beauty at Instagram, she was like trying to get it for me. And then she was like, Oh, my God, sorry, I forgot. Like we have this like stupid rule where it's five letters or less. We just just can not do that. I hate that. Zuckerberg said not today, babe. Fucking Zuck. Speaking of billionaires, Kim Kardashian, what I admire about Kim and actually like probably Chris if we're being honest is they're not they're not phased by failure. Like to the point that Chroma didn't even last a year in drug stores. They had these lawsuits. It was a public embarrassment. They're just like, "Let's try again." All the clothing stores, the dash boutique, they've had more failed businesses in terms of numbers than they have had successful ventures. It seems like the only reason that they've had successful ventures is by just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks, right? And I kind of admire that. I mean, don't forget the Kardashian credit card. We did a whole episode on the Kardashian businesses and really tracking the trajectory from spokesmanship all the way from licensing deals and then all the way to creating their own brands. And it is quite a journey. And I think that a good takeaway from that is you got to start somewhere. - You got to start somewhere. And if failure is like the scariest thing that could happen, then this ain't for you. Get out of the kitchen. - That's right. So Chroma RIP. - Our next product. Well, because it was, I think going to be a brand and then it just became a product. But do you guys remember when Gaga, Lady Gaga, released her black -colored fragrance called Fame? I feel like I kind of remember this, but not, like, hugely. Really? OK, it was, like, enormous. It was really big for me. It was-- it made in partnership with Cody. This was during her whole, like, she-- I think she, like, remember that year she came to the Grammys, like, in a-- egg or something yeah and so it was shaped like an egg with this like golden sort of like talons like on top of the egg and the the whole point of this fragrance it was kind of a dark fragrance but it was black in color so the actual mist was black the actual juice as they say in the business was black So if you're wearing like a white top. Correct. And I think that, you know, number one, I think that to your like initial skepticism, Lara, the issue I think probably was that people understood they could read that it was disappearing and that it wouldn't show up black on your clothes or wherever on your skin. But they were hesitant as any one should be when evaluating any type of beauty brand let alone a celebrity beauty brand. But it smelled really good and I will also say that it's like bottles of it like unopened bottles of it are going for $250 to $350 on Amazon and eBay. So there's like a market for this fragrance. - For black fluid. - For black fluid. And what I like about it is this was my favorite era of Gaga when she was like, she was like not trying to be cool. - Yeah, she was like art kid. - Like there's nothing, yeah. There's like nothing cool about like coming to the Grammys in an egg or like wearing a meat dress. Like all that shit. But it was just. like weird and bizarre and now I feel like Her new her new fragrances that she has are like Sarah Jessica Parker fragrances Can I ask while we're here on the Gaga of it all? From the professionals. What are your thoughts on house labs? Oh? So many thoughts Well, she shouldn't have launched on Amazon beauty on Amazon is is just like, that's the end of the line. True. Either your brand has gotten so big that like, you're expected to be on Amazon. And if you're not, you're creating a frustrating buying experience for your customers. But I think for any brand that like cares about their brand, they absolutely cannot be on Amazon. They've been trying to do like Amazon luxury Amazon for years and years and years through fashion, through beauty, and it's just like, no, thanks, we get it. It's a big warehouse, things get mixed up. You're probably getting something fake and we're just not or that's been used and returned. It's just no. And so that was a major miss. I hope she fired whoever did that deal for her. And but we were. we were really impressed we talked about it on the pod with how quickly she was able to pivot rebrand completely rebrand and then launch in Sephora and she's actually gotten I I love the concealer she and she's gotten good reviews on a lot of her other products as well. I've been very concealer curious when it comes to house labs. It's good. It's really good. Super creamy. I prefer it to the you know, everybody loves the COSIS concealer. I prefer it to the COSIS concealer. I think it has a little bit more coverage and but it's just as creamy. That's good to know. I saw some a TikToker I follow whose taste I like was using house labs foundation and that kind of shook me. I said, I got to check this out, perhaps. Oh, yeah. Yeah, people really like the foundation too. too. I think also the issue with like the Amazon, it wasn't just a distribution model that was flawed thinking. It was also the product and like the positioning, which was like clean, like it was like about clean makeup and like freshness kind of. And that's not what you want from Lady Gaga and House Labs. You want like full coverage, pick up where Kat Von D. left off, you know, like matte cosmetics kind of vibe. Yeah, I think now she's moved. She's moved more now into a long lasting I'll wear this lipstick on stage and it won't smudge sort of narrative. I've been thinking a lot about this one and it is item beauty by Addison Ray. It came into our lives like a wrecking ball in 2020, I believe, and came out almost just as fast. I think last year or the year before, Sephora said we're parting ways with Addison Rae, and it like failed to connect with the consumer, which kind of shocked me because I was like, "I thought Gen Z was all in on Addison Rae." and if I was going to maybe go down, I would be more into getting an item beauty lip gloss than I would a rare beauty anything, but that's just me. Oh, that shot's fired. So to me, I agree, and I still think that Addison Rae is going to succeed. I think we haven't seen the last of her. However, she has that it factor that Charlie D 'Amelio does not. have, not to compare women. But I think that it was a distribution issue. Like Sephora wasn't the right place for an Addison Rae, like cute little makeup line, which is like it with glosses and shadows. And it should have been like a Walgreens drugstore kind of thing that was like the new version of Wet and Wild. You know what I mean? Like that would have made more sense for like her easy breezy personality. and the consumers. In Sephora, you're buying more expensive, more premium stuff, and I know now there's all this Gen Alpha's ruining all the Sephora display product. But I just feel like the Sephora customer would be too critical of that anyway. That makes sense. I think the older are like the pr - Sephora customer, but obviously it's been more very well documented this year that the customer has shifted a bit gone a bit younger. Well, I do remember the Sephora team because I worked with them to bring my brand into Sephora a while ago and they, I remember them saying like the customer, the Sephora. customer is not brand loyal. Like they're not, they don't, they don't really care about like the person behind the brand. They just, they're really critical of like whether or not the product does what they want it to do. So I feel like celebrity brands in general and Sephora are tough. I think it works for Fenty and for Miss Selena Gomez because the products are actually really good quality, but I don't know if the same can be said about item beauty or one of our list items, which is JLo beauty, which just got the boot from Sephora. So they just sunset it JLo beauty. That's our breaking news. May she rest. JLo is having a bad year, I would say. Wait, why? Okay, because her documentary and Amazon things fluffed. Yeah. I don't think that's doing what she thought it would do. And then I completely, until this very moment, forgot that J .Lo Beauty was even a thing. And it was expensive. It was like, her whole idea was super premium. Like, you know, let's look. J .Lo Beauty, like serum, was $79. You can't be... saying that your item is a luxury product and then give it the hokey ass names that they gave it. But if we know anything about J .Lo, it's that she's clearly surrounded herself with exclusively yes people and that's how you make the greatest love story never told. That was the subhead. What was the headline of? This is me dot dot dot now. Yeah, like, she's like, what if we called the cleanser that hit single? And everyone is like, JLo. Yes, of course. Glow and get it. Literally yes. Hydrating mist. That overnight hustle. That JLo glow. And she's like, but I want it to be fancy. And it's like, okay, then let's just like, it's just, it's bad. And I think the other issue that that people had with the brand is when she launched it in an interview, I think with Women's Wear Daily, she said that really the only, the only thing she credited for her like perfect skin at 55 was olive oil. Yeah, that's going to alienate the consumer for sure. Yeah. Then why would I buy anything that you're smelling? Yeah, probably the... fact that she has access to any and everything, and that's probably the culprit over anything else in terms of being-- I mean, we went from J. Lo literally using creme de la mer as a body cream, you know, in the fabulous life of, on VH1, to her saying that the only thing she uses, like what she credits her skin. to is olive oil. I also really need to point out the name of her SPF was called That Big Screen. Like what? It's just misguided and that makes me sad for everybody. Do you think she was weird before she became famous or she became famous? Or she became weird in the process of being famous? fainting like in becoming famous. No, I think you have to be a total weirdo to become famous. But you have to have like an outsized like sense of like self and like your ego has to be so insane to go up and be like anybody that can go up in front of people and perform. I'm like, you're insane. Yeah, and I think also her manager is kind of a sinister. sinister a sinister gay And so that's like a perfect person to coach like a diva Into world dominating fame True But it's like to lose so like to lose I mean maybe she never had a sense of humor Which I think maybe is the truth but to lose any semblance of self -awareness let alone human humor. Oh, I definitely don't think she has a sense of humor about herself. She does. She doesn't. That's very prevalent. How how sad were you guys that I, Ayo Adebri, had to apologize to her with tears in her eyes? Speaking of podcasts coming back to bug you in the eyes. I was just going to say this could be an Ayo moment for any of us. And I celebrate that. I'm just like. guys, like have a laugh. Like also, JLo, can we not agree that like your singing career is a scam? Like, can you not have a little bit? Like, can you not be in on any joke? Yeah, also, what do you care? You're so successful. Like, does it really matter if this person who's like doesn't just coming up now said talk shit about you? Like, and it also seemed to me extremely classless. that then JLo gave an interview saying that she apologized to her. I'm like, "Keep it to yourself." Or like make a joke about it and be like, "She tried to apologize." And I was like, "You don't need to apologize." You know what I mean? I guess we're hoping for something. I don't think she had the dinner. 20 million on that movie she did out of her own. money. Let's just let that digest. Did anyone here watch it? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I didn't even I actually have no idea what you're talking about. So she she did a visual album for her new album that came and went called This Is Me Now. And it's like a AI love story. I don't even know how it's it's very all over the place. And she ended up funding it entirely herself. Damn. The financing dropped out and then sold it to Amazon. Oh. And it's a must watch. It's a must. And then there's a corresponding documentary, which is also a must watch. And oh, the first one was. a documentary. So there's two movies now that were, oh my God, visual album, it sorts. Oh, no. So she tried to do like a musical, I guess. Her version of what that is, which is like it gives you the wrong impression of what goes on in her head, which is amazing from like, if you're watching it ironically, you're like, oh my God. God, like this woman belongs in the insane asylum. And she also seems like she has low self -esteem and does not know how to pick men. But like, and also like is the lies on men to like give herself worth. Yeah, something you get the wrong impression of her psyche. She's got a little too fat. Joe is her therapist. Please are their best. Yeah, no, it's basically you have to see it immediately, but it's a huge what? 2017, this one I thought was no longer with us, but apparently it is MDNA skin. - Oh, we had the same thing written down. - Nice. I actually, in looking at the product range and revisit, revisiting the marketing of this, where she talks about its Japanese skincare influence, the Rose Spray. This was, as I believe, pre -facemist Rose Spray height of fame. So she was a bit ahead of the curve with that. She had eye masks, which, again, I think, in 2017, hadn't hit as big as they had been. of-- - Elizabeth, I want you to stop talking in the past because I'm on their website and you can still buy their Toon Driller Beauty Roller. - Yeah, and that was gonna say, the face tool. - And their Rosemus. - The face tool. - You can buy it all. That is crazy. - At the time, it launched exclusively in Barney's, so sorry for you. - That's a clue. - Yeah. - I know. - At the time, huge, now not so great. Huge, right. But I think that in terms of being ahead of the curve, as Majana has a history of being, she really, this range actually ended up launching products that ended up being really popular categories before they were popular categories, to my knowledge. You guys would probably know. know better than me. I mean, I feel like a rose facemis has been around, like heritage rose, who did that horrible branding. Glossier had a rose facemis. I don't know if they still do. Unfortunately, a lot of people were allergic to it. Do you remember that, Nick? Oh my God. god. We were on set for a photo shoot and I told the makeup artist and we had redheaded the fairest skinned beauty in all the land and model and I was like told the makeup artist I was like do not spray this face mist on her. And she was like oh this will be fine. Just a prepper skin. I was like absolutely not do not. Don't try it. Use water. What does she do? She sprays the rose. rose face mist on her. Had an allergic reaction. She was the only model for this shoot. We had to like, pump her up at Benadryl. So be aware of rose face mist. But Madge, I mean, listen, if I want to, if I want my face to look like anyone, it is Madonna circa 2017. So I think MDNA is a winner. winner. No. I mean, the fact that it's still, you know, you can still order it. I feel like in of itself is an achievement. What are these protective mask sleeves that they sell for $15? Designed for use with the skin ultra thin hypoallergenic polyurethane resin. Our remover sheets protect the magnetic surface of their devices. So when this launched, the big thing was like this weird like $600 magnetic magnet, essentially, yeah, that was like a mask that like you used. It like had metal in it so that when you use this like wand over it, it like pulled things out, pulled it up. I remember trying it. How was it? It was weird. weird. It was a different sensation, but it was cool. It was just like incredibly high tech and a high price point. I'm no expert on Japan, but I've never heard of anybody over there putting magnet cream on their face. Mm -mm. But I like that she had a beauty roller. That, I think, in 2016. was a bit novel. I remember the marketing for it. She went like full YouTube beauty influencer and really tried to grab that crowd in the whole. I love when the pop star or actor girlies do those rounds when they're all they're on like Patrick star and like Nikki tutorials and like they have to like go on these things and pretend that they're like interested in whatever these like no names have to say. Exactly. It was just a different route for her. But then if I think it just like fell off, it isn't I looked and it doesn't have any stochies. Oh wait, there is a store locator. I lied. Page not found. Yeah. Yeah. No. no, no places to buy it except for the website. I'm looking at all the Instagram comments right now, which is actually generous to say all the because each post is averaging about six to 10 comments on them. But the most recent ones are like any new products in the future. Why don't you have the eye serum anymore? Is the eye roller ever coming back? So it seems like like maybe things are winding down for MDMA. Aw. I mean, it was her farewell tour, and maybe. The last post was from six days ago. Mm -hmm. Oh, there you go. Someone goes, "Are you planning for international shipping near soon? My country is Cyprus." I don't think the Cyprus fan is going to be getting any MDMA. skin. Yeah, they're going to invest in the Cyprus market. Aw. To put that in perspective, guess when the last time Ageless by Ramona Instagrammed anything? Tell me. 141 weeks ago. But what, two years? [BLANK _AUDIO] Let's put it in process. I think you just do you have to deactivate? Yeah, you should you should just close it down. Yeah And this poor person named Jane, where can I buy this product? I'm all out. Oh God I have one that I want to rip on so bad because I do not like this guy Nick do you remember when this happened with our friend Jared Leto when I was a kid? at Into the Gloss and he, like, his hairstylist got mad at me? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He just did hair at a Trump wedding, so. Okay, back to the start. Okay, 29 palms. Who remembers 29 palms? Jared Leto's. I do. Oh, wow. A true blink and you missed it, Brand. Like, it was. that long ago that they announced that it was coming out and then apparently we were just reading up before we started recording like two weeks after launch the CEO that Jared had partnered with to launch this brand like exited the company. And all the products are they all say coming soon, and they all look like AI generated like images, or like more. -up images, you know, like it doesn't hilarious. And yeah, it was inspired. They were moisturizing products inspired by the desert. Yeah, rather than just like take the L and like close down the site. For some reason, it's still up. And Jared is also no longer involved. Did it ever actually? actually launch or just announced and then stopped at coming soon? - We may never know. - Fascinating. - But the funny story about, I think Jared takes himself very, very seriously. Speaking of him, he and J .Lo have it. - Can confirm. - Oh, you have a Jared lot of story too. - Yep. - Okay, so I'll tell my mind's quick. - Okay. I so when we're at into the gloss and we still do like fashion show cover or award show coverage or whatever, like we email or we interviewed his hairstylist to ask about whatever dumb hair style he had. I don't know, it was like a it was like a like a low bun or so. I forget what it was, but it was like one of it was like the obligatory like, oh, we got to have a guy. on this. And so it got like a quote, whatever. And his hair stylist said something like, you know, we had to do do it this way, because, you know, he he's his hair so pretty, we don't want him to look like too much like a woman, which like made sense. I'm like, yeah, I give him a little edge. He's a he's like a attractive guy as this, like, like you said, ombre like shiny hair. And so it goes live, whatever. And then I get this like furious, like email saying like, to take down the part where he said that he didn't want him to look like a woman and whatever, whatever. Like, it was just very bizarre. It was like the weirdest little detail that he like really was up in arms about. Anyway, I think your story is probably better. So please, well, I actually have two, but I'll be brief on both. One, I helped launch a luxury men's women's apparel brand called Cotton Citizen, and he had a company that they were sort of running our e -com /helping us with distribution. I wasn't really involved in... You hired Jared Leto to help with your back end? Yeah, that's fascinating. So bizarre. I wasn't part of that decision -making, but I... did. That's like, talk about a leap of faith. I know. I did end up going to his compound for some meetings multiple times. And it was just strange. She was very nice, but it was just like being on business calls with Jared Leto was just weird. I don't know what else to say about it. It was just a weird moment. And then before that, when I was much... younger, I ended up in a car with him going from some random magazine party to Coachella. And it was, you know, like when you're in Palm Springs, and it's something that should take 10 minutes ends up taking two hours because there's so much traffic and it's so congested. So I ended up in the back of his car with three three of my other friends trying to get into Coachella, but I guess the part that was challenging for me was I had just taken some MDMA before I got in the car, and I started like peeking. So MDNA or MDMA? I wish it was MDNA, but it was MDMA, and I thought it was going to be like a quick ten minute ride, and I ended up like fully peeking on drugs with Jared Leto. Oh God. and it was... He was driving? Yes. What happened was is a friend of mine from back in the day was one of his producers and had ran into him at this party and was like, "Can we get a ride with you back to the festival?" And he was like, "Uh, let me check." He's like, "Oh, yeah, sure. Just meet me at the car." And it was Jared's car and he was driving and it was and then my friends and I were texting while we were in the bus. with each other. And we were like, we wish it was Jordan Catalano driving. Jesus, take the wheel. Yeah. So that was memorable. That's that's a good story. I like that. I don't have any. Do you think had he had there been another driver and he had been in the backseat with you that you would have hooked up or had sex with him? I think he was into me like that. Well, no, I just mean like you're on MDMA. It's not like if you're on MDMA with Jared Leto in the backseat. He wasn't on MDMA. I was. It was like a solo journey. He wasn't sober. He might have been sober. He reminds me of a guy that I knew in college named who is the most like the most repulsive type of person. man. This guy would follow. He was friends with my friend Matt from Dallas, but we had all moved down to Austin and Matt had a house with my boyfriend at the time. And so we were all over there and that was like the hang spot. And then this guy named Teddavan, Teddavan started hanging around. And he was like at least 10 years older than all of us. And he always wore like rope. robes and like, you know hippie like poncho type things and he was a self -described healer and Hey, I hated this guy. He was the worst. We all but you know, he was always around around all the young girls wanting to heal them and Come to find out His name was Ted Evans and he was a neppo baby from LA that like was just in Austin creeping on all the college girls pretending to be a new age healer It's certainly a type. He was Ted Rose Ted Rose from the idol. Oh My god, I see I only watched two episodes of that, but yeah, you're right. Yeah Isn't it sad that we never saw like the real version where she was like a Britney Spears? Did you see like there was something on TikTok or Instagram the other day about, I guess, some thrifter found a whole box of like the original merch. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, what could have been? I know. Oh, poor Lily Rose. I wanted more for her. There's still time. There's still time. There's still time. She'll be fine She'll be great. I also think like she is a star like Lily Rose is a star totally She has what it takes. Mm -hmm to star power I've got one more Let's go Okay, it was gonna be Lauren Conrad Beauty, but who cares? Oh, I'm now pivoting to Gwen Stefani because I am so utterly confused. Yeah. Are you talking about Gixiv? Yeah, with an X and a Z. Yeah, Gixiv. It's basically like a Mary Kay model. Oh, I love a celebrity MLM. Exactly. Exactly. And so on the website, you can become an ambassador and then sell the product. So she really said, "We got to have a gimmick." And I have questions. I just want to know. It also feels like the red lip black eyeliner, if it had come out 20 years ago from her, it would have crushed. Did Lamb Lam love Angel Music Baby ever have makeup? They had fragrance, and I know that because I owned it. I had some stilettos that I used to walk all around New York City in when I was an intern. I also had a leather bag from her that I paid. It was the most expensive bag that I had ever gotten at the time. I still have it. Well, she's another one who doesn't seem to have a sense of humor. Yeah. It's also she bums me out because I think, you know, like I was a huge no doubt fan, like Return of Saturn and huge tragic Kingdom and even Hella Good. What was that album? Like I could that the the song cool. Oh, she was just like everything. everything. And she embraced like beauty, but in her own way, like she was a makeup girly. She was like a rhinestone girly. She did her hair and she Jean Harlow and whatever, whatever. And then she did this like massive pivot, like when she became a judge on a show and just turned into like Ellie Goulding, her and Ellie Goulding look like the same person. to me right now. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I think my biggest, I think it's hard when some of these women, I think Madonna too, when they're so in their own lane and such innovators and so inspiring. And then they sort of make this weird turn into like run of the mill. It is an alarm longer exciting Well, I think also the one the one thing that unlocked the secret to Gwen Stefani to me that I learned From an interview that she did with Dak Sheppard on armchair expert She's like a deep she has she is and has always been like a deeply religious Christian. Oh, yeah, I know that Doesn't that all kind of make it all make sense a bit and also like the Orange County to like Oklahoma City yes like pipeline and the Blake Shelton of it all that really does evangelical I don't know if evangelical but like very very no this was like Ray born and raised like very religious like has always been a very devout Christian oh Gwen was Christian yeah oh oh see and Oklahoma are very aligned in that way Oh. Think my biggest issue with the Gix, the bike when Stefani is the font, it is a little too hella good. And I think that we, as a community, have evolved and we need something a little fresher. And I think the font can say everything about a brand. and so it's a no for me. - Yeah, she used to have like the coolest references. Like I get that like they were very problematic, but I feel like she could have pulled from somewhere else and made her own like unique, exciting branding, but. - Entirely. - It would be kind of cool. Yeah, cool and cunt, I would even say. to do like an evangelical Christian branded beauty line using that kind of like font and iconography, whatever that may be. Like we haven't seen that. Wait, let's do it. That could be edgy. Let's do it. Let us four, let's do that because that, yes. As a Jew, I think I could bring a lot to that. Next. year. I love that name. We're half and half. I know that our cameras are off, but-- Listen, I would be able to tell just by looking. Things you can tell just by looking. I grew up not evangelical. I was Methodist, but I did go to the Baptist church because they had the cuter boys when I was a teenager. So I get it. Very quickly, Blake Shelton built a Catholic Catholic church on his property on his Oklahoma ranch for Gwen Stefani. She divorced Gavin Rossdale in 2016, but then got that marriage annulled in 2019 because, quote, they want to make sure they have God on their side. You know who else went full like Catholic is Kat Von D. Oh, no, she's Bush. but she was like baptized recently, like in its I don't think it's Catholicism. Oh, oh, Gwen. Sorry, I'm getting it all mixed up. Gwen is evangelical. No, Gwen is a Catholic and Kat Von D. I think is the Church of Crazy. What? And they both are selling liner. Correct. Well, anyone who is getting baptized at the age of 42 in like a pool, like in like a, you know, in a pool. - Tamra judge style? - Something. Yes. - You're kooky. You've lost a plot a bit. - Is you're kooky. - But I'm, what I'm learning, what I'm learning a lot right now just from like a brief glimpse of market research is that there is not really, one emerging like singular and popular faith based cosmetics company. So I just feel like this is a huge gap in the marketplace that could be people need to take advantage of this is what I'm saying. Oh, I have a friend that did a military based cosmetic company and it is they're printing money. Wow, that's a smart end too. Because let me tell you how it works. On the military bases, they have stores, and those stores love to buy from brands that, you know, are military or related to the military somehow. And so they have like automatic orders, you know, like every military base. And those people, it's if you live on the base, you can't, I mean, you're not, I don't know, I'm sure you could like order from Sephora or whatever. But like if you're just like bored and out to shop, you're buying, you know, Bravo Sierra. Yeah. So I think we got something here. I think we should do this. I think we should do bath bombs, but for the baptisms. There you go. But don't don't you think that the fact that Gwen, or not Gwen, I'm sorry, Gwen's is an MLM that it's slightly already a bit skewed into a religious market? Wait, Gwen's is an MLM? Yeah. Yeah. What? You can become a give ambassador. Oh no. And then you can sell it from your living room or your social media platform. or your Facebook. Which I can't tell if I love this, if I love this, and I like that they found their own little lane because then you, I think she does like group calls and stuff with her top ambassadors and that sort of thing, or if she doesn't do that, she should like people get to connect with Gwen. And I think with somebody who has a following like that, that might not be true. be the smart way to play it. Truthandadvertising .org is not going to like that. Yeah, Nick. Nick loves exposing an MLM. He did a whole episode. I had to bow out because I was scared. I don't want to go after me up against the man. Does anybody here, I feel like this is the group to ask, have any intel of what it is? are we still getting Lala? What is going on with Give Them Lala? - That's a great question. - I feel like Give Them Lala was the same person that's giving us Lisa Rinalyps. Like it's all that same production and then they're just changing the branding slightly. - But yeah, so I didn't understand what she was saying on the left. last episode So she's saying like is is giving them Lala still existing at all because she said because wasn't she like I'm give them Lala, but the brand is its own thing. So I I'm confused She needs the Brit like any smart business person. She's just now thinking that she doesn't want her identity inextricably inextricably sort of attached to The brand you know that she creates she wants to create some psychic distance, so she's taking herself out of the brand name. How would you brand Lala in this upgrade? I mean, I would put her on HSN QVC because she's so fun with answering viewer questions and shit. Well, she's kind of doing that on Amazon Live currently. Oh, she is? Okay. Yeah. well, she doesn't need me then. And I would just make it super like sexy and like sexual, maybe edible. Bring it back to shimmers and yeah. A sex or like masturbation, like a self pleasure line would be really good for her. Like a candy coated nights kind of vibe. That's candy. Andy Burris is sexual. Yeah, something like that would go far. I think also with her like recent, like. She's just getting the sperm donor donor and having the kid herself is like a DIY approach to like pleasure. Also aligned with that. Yeah. What if she just called it and give them? Oh, maybe that's what if she caught it? Yeah, what if you gotta give with an accent? I'm just gonna give them beauty, give them skin. Yeah, okay. Give them hair, body, not not your Lala's hair. Not your Lala's. No, she wants to take the name Lala out of it. Yeah, exactly. Not your Lala's. Not Lala's. I don't know. I don't know if we need any product from Lala. I know. I'm like, what does she influence me to do? The best career path that you can now have from being on that show is the alley route and doing one on one astrology readings. I think she's going to make a killing. Yeah. Oh, you know who else? I mean, honestly, though and again not to be inappropriate but the amount like the amount of money she could make on OnlyFans and she doesn't have to be like having hardcore sex but like if she launched it while the show was on and that was like a plot line it would she'd be making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. For a while hasn't anyone done an OnlyFans on Vanderpump rules. - Yeah, I mean, there's Denise Richards. - Great question. - They're not taking notes. - Yeah. - I don't know. - Seven dollar bundle. - That's actually bizarre. They could just show like a hint of cleave. They wouldn't even-- - Even Jax. - They wouldn't even do nothing. Any of the guys-- - Like Bella Thorne, like, yeah. - Like Tom Sandoval should start in Onlyfans. - Peter Madrigal. - He needs it more than anyone. I mean, is he still a man? oh no, I guess sir doesn't exist anymore. So what is he managing? - He is still the manager of sir, but he was offered a deal to come back to the show for $0 or to not come back to the show. (laughing) And he chose not to. - Okay, I mean, that's, that is attempting, that's attempting offer. - I know, so like only fans it is. Plus I, I think like, every gay guy I've ever talked to about Vanderbump rules or-- - Oh, I wanna see his dick. - Yeah, it's Peter all the way. Like he would please-- - Yes, because he's like a sweaty good lover who's like not attractive enough that he didn't have to work hard for it, you know? He's like just unattractive enough that he probably is good at sex and cares about your pleasure. - I don't get that vibe from him whatsoever but I appreciate the perspective. - I don't know, he has a lot of confidence for a guy that is like... - I don't trust the hair. - Okay. - Speaking of beauty brands, heroin by Peter Madrigal, he had his own hair band. - No. - No, he did. He did. This just jogged my memory. (laughing) - Harrow. - Peter. - Hold please. - Mad. (laughing) - Oh my God, if you Google him, it goes Peter Madagirl, film director. - Harrow. - The main thing I've learned today is his last name, 'cause I've never, never thought to know it. - Another 2017 throwback. - Madrigal. - Yeah, I believe it was called Harrow. "Hero." What are we doing with all these defunct brands and their social accounts? Well, great question. Shop MyHero as one, two, three, four, five, six, seven letters. So you could get it if you wanted it from Pristie Dash. I think Instagram should be doing calls. I'm like, if you haven't posted on your account in two years, it's no longer your account. That's... That's, that's my feeling. That's an idea for Zach. He can have that for free. He doesn't have only fans. Peter, does Jax? Yeah, Jax does. We had Jax, we had make us a cameo when we first launched the pod. Oh, I love that. And we had, we specifically asked him to say that he hated the pod. pod, so that people would rebel. But he didn't really give us what we wanted, did he, Nick? He was kind of like, "No, no, no, I know you guys want to think I'm a bad guy, but I'm a good guy." Anyway. I got one, when I got engaged, my friend got me one from Ramona, and then she got me one from Ramona, and then she got me one from Ramona, and then she got me one and then she got me one from Ramona, and then she got me one from Ramona, and then she got me one from Ramona, and then she got me one from Ramona, and then she got me one that she had gotten it for me and gave it to me a year and a half later. That was fun. Well, that's a nice surprise. Yeah. It's always nice when Ramona Singer says your dog's name, you know? Oh, wow. It's just like an important thing. Yeah. Getting your money's worth with that call out. Exactly. Exactly. What a haul, right? We covered the history of some failed brands. I think we've only scratched the surface, but I'm exhausted. Yeah, a good haul will do that to you. Nick and Annie, your show. I know that this might also run on your show, but I have to say I'm the biggest fan. I love it so, so much. Well, the feeling is mutual. I've learned a lot about, I have a lot of new subreddit. I quit Reddit a while ago, but... you might have sucked me back in. I think it's good to take a break. I will add to the subreddits. There's like century homes. If you haven't been on that one, that's a great. I have not. Great one. There's such nerds about maintaining the integrity of century homes. That sounds right up my alley. Also, Nick, your husband knows my entire life because he's been doing my. face since he started at Good Skin. He really takes doctor patient confidentiality seriously. And so I did not know any of that. Love that. This episode was edited by A .J. Mosley and produced by Jonathan Kornman. If you enjoy the show, like and subscribe to Iowa Disputey on whatever podcasting platform you love and leave us a review. Thank you. 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