You're listening to A Climate Change. This is Matt Matern, your hosts and got a great guest coming on the program today. Karthik Velayutham. He is the Founder and CTO of Katrick Technologies, and Katrick Technologies based in Scotland. And they have developed wind turbines that oscillate, they don't rotate.

So pretty fascinating new technology has a lot of applications can be put in places where kind of windmills can't be located these days. And so it has minimal impact on environment. And wildlife can be put in cities as well as rural rural location. So has a lot of applications out there. So very exciting technologies. Glad to have you on the program, Karthik.

Thanks, Matt. Thanks for the invite. I'm quite keen to come and talk about our technology. And then thank you.

So a little bit about your background and how you came to the environmental movement and came to this particular technology. So I started in 2016, I was working in some vibration conversion technologies, and I was called in by the finance and the transport ministers of Scotland.

They do they did have a problem of bringing wind turbines into airports and highways. And because I was working some unique things there. I was like, could you have a look into this side of the ring wind into the into these environments, and then come up with their idea? And that's how it's all started.

Okay, and what is your kind of background? From an engineering standpoint? How did you get into engineering?

Um, yeah, my background is a bit funny. So I started my career as marine engineer, my family told that you want a phone, you won't like it, but I wanted to sail the ship. I did. And then I started sailing in the ship, oil tankers as an engineer. But I didn't realize that these large ships will move. Most of the time, they won't even go into the airport because of their size.

So we anchor like, probably like many miles away from the boat. So you hardly see anything. So I didn't, I didn't quite like it. So I would still stick to my Marine side. So I came back. And I wanted to do something related to that. And I'm quite good in design things.

So I started doing naval architecture at satellite University in Glasgow. And then from that, I got involved with some wave energy technologies, and then I did Master's in offshore renewables in that so came into the green green technology side.

Okay? And how long has Katrick technology's been in business?

Um, so I'm doing the project since 2012, since my university times, and then officially Catholic started in 2016. So, and for the first few years, it was only two of us and we were doing some grant, we were getting some grants, and then doing some research work with the universities. And one in 2020, we decided, like, Okay, we have done enough groundwork, and we need to develop the company.

We brought in lots of business minded people into the on board, from that the company kick started. Okay, tell us a little bit about the wind turbines and, you know, describing for the radio audience, some of our audiences also going to be watching and seeing so they can see it visually. But for those who can't tell us a little bit about how these, these wind turbines oscillate and don't rotate.

Yeah, so So when, when this thing first came to me, bring wind energy systems into airports and, and highways and so on. One of the first thing I did is what is the problem statement? So if you want to bring something new, you need to make sure that you write the problem statement clearly. And only when the problem statement is correct, then only you can develop something.

So then I started to look like what's the problem here? So when conventional wind turbines work perfectly well, but they work in a different environment and higher above the ground where there is no obstruction, the wind district predominantly laminar, so no, there's no turbulence.

So what that means is you can easily capture those laminar flow and calm Straight into one single shaft. And that's pretty much all the rotary system works in the ground level, the wing characteristics are very different.

So they are turbulent. So, turbulence means it has as you walk in the streets or when he walks in, he will see sudden gust it's some point, you will see more wind at some point, you will see less wind and we call it turbulence intensity. So when you operate something which is rotating where all the energies focus into one single shaft in the operating environment, which is highly turbulent, you'll start to get lots of imbalance.

That's the key difference between conventional turbines why they don't work in the urban environments. The other one is, if you're if you have something which is spinning, it's NIMBY, some people who like to Interbrand doesn't want in their backyard.

So you need to create something, which looks nice, it doesn't expose those blades spinning. And the other one, the other factor is you can't have very large turbines in the urban environment, it has to be small. So energy is like, could only capture the energy based on how much you're extracting.

So if you have a small system, you can't extract too much energy. So we have something called detecting effects or combining everything, we come up with a design, which, which includes a system, which first channels the flow, so we bring the turbulence in small sections, and we bring it into a more smoother flow. So that's why we use adapt that also increase the aesthetics it looks much nicer, and then the ducting also increases the velocity. So, the effective wind energy capture is enhanced to the ducting effect.

The reason why we have a oscillate oscillate oscillating system is because we are working in such a small area, if you put something which is rotating, and it takes a lot of area, so the central hub will take a lot of failure.

So we are capturing we are using oscillation, also oscillation the reaction time is very, very faster than your rotary device because of the inertia and other things. So so we took we and we did a lot of studies on the on the urban environment, the ground level wind, and came up with these are the challenges and these are the benefits.

And then from that we come up with a design to tell us a little bit just explaining the length of these ducts that are on your, your units, how, how many feet or meters are they long.

Um, so the current system that we are developing is for the industries and they are about two meters long and about two meters wide, two meters tall, it looks like a hex which has six ducts inside. And each ducts has two air foils. And the reason why we have two falses effective energy capture, because we are oscillating, we will never spin that, that that speed of a rotary device.

And then if it's been very if you're stuck very fast to page vibration, so we actually wrote much slower than a rotary device, if you go slower, and you will lose lots of energy. So we have to airforces increases the effort to capture. So it's about like to do by two by two meters. And the footprint is about 4.2 meters.

Okay, and what's what's your current status as far as manufacturing these items? How are you proceeding as far as getting in these manufactured?

So our business so we came up with a unique business model. So what we understood is a lot of new, very good, very good technologies comes out from startup companies like ours, but then they fail. And the key reason for them to fail is they, they try to do the end to end process everything by themselves, how good we are in generating new concepts and creating eyepieces.

That's our strength. But we don't have the knowledge on manufacturing product development, because our team is small, the resources is very small. So our business strategy is to embrace multiple technology partners. So we developed the technology to and we prove the functionality, we create a patent. We license the patent to global OEMs who has the capacity to mass manufacture. And, and so we don't manufacture the technology. So we develop it and we give it we license it to global OEMs who will manufactured.

Okay. And in terms of licensees. Are there anybody? Are there any companies currently that are licensing your product in order to begin manufacturing them?

Yeah, we are currently in talks with one of global OEM. We are doing lots of Sprint exercise with them. Because we are coming to the end of technology development and then the product I've managed to start simultaneously so So we are engaging with one global OEM. We're also talking with couple of other global OEMs. But the one country Retrofit is actually quite.

Okay. Well, that's great. So you've also you've already produced prototypes of, of these wind turbines already correct.

Thank you, we have done prototypes to do lab experiments. We haven't done prototypes to do experiments on the real environment. And that's something the OEMs will do. So that's, that's the conversation we are having.

So, they are preparing themselves to build the prototypes to go into the retail environments. And what is kind of the projection as to how many units they would produce in the next year, two years, five years. If they go ahead, then we are looking into the gap in the market. So we are so we are currently we are going into Europe 16. So the top 16 countries in the Euro who are keen in, in renewable energy.

So if you take if you cover 1% of their onshore wind energy market, that's 1.7 gigawatts, which roughly equates to 1.7 million hex in the individual hex the by 2030. But obviously, the potential for this global OEM is much larger than that. So we are working on exactly how we are going to manufacture, how long what's the production line and so on?

Well, it sounds like an amazing product. And we'll be back in just one minute to talk to Karthik about the amazing technology that he's developed at Katrick technologies and we'll talk to him further so stay tuned.

You're listening to A Climate Change this is Matt Matern. And I've got Karthik Velayutham, who is the founder and chief technology officer of Katrick Technologies, which is a company that is designed wind turbines that oscillate they don't rotate. So Karthik, you were telling us about the model that you have in terms of how you're playing to license different companies to build these tell us some of the features that are related to them.

As far as that as minimal impact on environment wildlife captures more kinetic energy than conventional wind, turbans can be put in cities and rural locations, can be used as perimeter fencing for say, like at airports are on the highways, and also can be put in wind for wind farms to actually double the output of the wind farms. That's pretty remarkable, because I guess they're dead zones between the different windmills where they're not actually capturing the air closer to the ground, I assume. And and your your technology could be placed on the ground and capture that wind, is that true?

Um, yeah, so um, one of the key one of the key advantage of entering into the ground level is Vinter, banks are quite large, and they create lots of vague so you need to have minimum distance. So on an average about like 100 megawatt wind farm requires anywhere between five kilometer kilometer square to 30 kilometer square.

So if you use like, me, let's say if you use one turbine is one megawatt only. In this huge, vast area, you could only put 100 printer points. And there was a large amount of space in between them. So what you could do is you could we did some analysis for some local winter wind farms in Scotland. If you cover 1% of the wind farm area, you could actually increase 25% of the capacity factor of doing farm.

Wow, that increase and you don't, you don't have a huge visual impact, because they are much closer to the ground rather than it's and you could actually design these wing panels in such a way that it will blend in with the environment.

Now that was just covering 1% of the ground space. I assume it can you cover larger than 1% of the ground space and increase the efficiency rate or output Electricity even higher than that?

You could it all depends on some wind farms, you could cover 5% 10% It all depends like how many three other factors are involved or some farms have a very open space on the ground level, some has some tree, some fencing, depending on wind farms, you could, you could, you could have much larger coverage, right?

No restriction. Right.

So that could increase the level of electricity that's generated pretty substantial. And I understand that the CEO of your company was invited to number 10 Downing Street recently to meet with governmental officials. In an event for green tech startups. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah, so we have won a couple of awards. And we were also featured in BBC click programme, which is to show a case our technology. And from that, he got invited to number 10. And basically, the reason for his invitation is how, how we are developing the technology and what the government can help us.

So one of the key things we were asking them as solar, well understood the power dynamics of solar, the wind turbines, they are also well understood, ground level will, wind is something that nobody understands. Because if you take the main data, they are, they only record data every five minutes or every one hour, they don't capture the turbulence intensities. So we are doing an oval methodology on the ground level to understand these changes.

So that means when you start to generate power, there will be some discrepancy in the integrate line. So you need the government support when you want to bring such such impactful technology into the market. So things like that, like we were discussing with the government, like what are the things that steps that they could take to help us bring this technology into the market as quick as possible?

And for them? How could they use this technology to achieve their targets? Because if you take the current turbine technology, with the targets, there is 70% gap in the market, because there are only a few companies who can manufacture these big turbines, and they don't have the production capacity to meet the targets.

So do you think that the current manufacturing base could gear up to manufacture your product as quickly to fill this gap in and produce you know, whatever it is millions of units that would be required?

Yeah, so the sort of the global OEM that currently we are we are in this talking about they're also a key player in the wind turbine technology. But what they when they see this technology, they see this as mass manufacturing system.

So it's for them it's much easier to mass manufacture this even though you need a large amount of this hex to compensate one single turbine because they produce a huge amount of power, you could the capacity to mass manufacture is far more easier because of the components that we use here. And installation is much more easier, how many hexes of your product would it take to equal one megawatt turbine?

So, each current industrial product that we are going to release the as the first launch product is ready it will be rated at one kilowatt. So you need 1000 hexes to to match one one megawatt wind turbine. Okay, this is more this is more to like solar panels.

Okay. Well, I kind of got excited when I saw the technology, I thought you'd show it on your website and showed that you could put this up on on homes and places like that to generate electricity and and obviously current technology is it would be impossible to kind of have wind turbines on homes, but with your technologies, these hexagon all units it seems like it would be possible to do that and how many of those hexes would you need on a home to generate kind of self sufficiency for the average home.

Um, it depends on which location that we are talking about because some places they use more power than the other they use more electricity so on an average five to six in the UK, that would be sufficient. For the for the home to cover one of the key thing is currently, we are targeting a behind the meter element so winter by So in front of the meter, so they supply directly to the national grid. Solar, you could use a sort large solar farm to supply to the national grid, or you could use microgeneration, which goes directly feed into the industries to the, to your homes, etc.

But currently, the only option we have is solar panels. There's, if you take the wind, the wind is more consistent throughout the day, and it glows more during the night and more during the wintertime. So if you take one of the biggest electric because electricity consumer in Europe is for heating, because we are we are, we are going we are shifting from gas heating towards electric heating. And this heating the building is taking more and more energy plus charging away.

So these are the two key factors that's going to play in the next coming years. And you normally require heating during the winter months. And during the nighttime, you normally charge your car during the nighttime. So in both the cases, the sun doesn't shine that much. It doesn't even shine. But the wind is quite predominantly high during these times. So that's why wind energy is very important to balance.

So we're not trying to compete with solar, but we are trying to bring a balance in the load. So together, compensating solar, we could bring more balance into load load and enhancing renewable energy generation.

Right. And I guess if you have it at the micro level, then there's less need to build out a power grid, which I know here in the US there's been a challenge of trying to build more power grid infrastructure to carry all the solar and wind energy that is being generated by the major wind and solar farms are you having similar problems in the UK?

Yeah, once once you start going into like big wind farms or big solar farms, you have to use a you have to start generating power at somewhere we have we have used so much urban space. So we have so much built up area. Currently the one, the only technology which can go there and generate power solar, wind is quite high, too in this area.

So if you start to include wind in those areas, then you have another technology which can generate another huge amount of power. So you could actually utilize the built up area that currently used towards generating the new green energy. You don't need to go and destroy farms, you don't need to go destroy wildlife and so many things you don't need to enter into those areas.

That is a very big benefit from your technology is Because currently, a lot of environmentalist groups are very concerned about the effect of these are gargantuan solar arrays that do affect the environment on a ground level. And it seems though your technology would have a lighter impact on the environment and wildlife than then some of these massive solar farms.

So yeah, it's very promising. So you will be right back in just one minute. We're talking with Karthik who is the CTO and Founder of Katrick technologies, which is a company that generates that has created wind turbines that oscillate they don't rotate. So we'll be back in just one minute to talk to Karthik about this, stay tuned.

You’re listening to A Climate Change this is Matt Matern, and I've got Karthik, who is the founder and CTO of Katrick Technologies, which creates a wind turbine technology. Karthik, maybe you can tell us a little bit about how you came up with the hexagon design.

Yeah, so, it was before we coming up with before we came up with the design, we first understood, we first tried to understand what is the urban wind behaviors and based on that, we decided that okay, this is all doing this behaving. These are the key things we need to do. And from that, let's do a design. So, what we learned from the urban vendors, the wind fluctuates, the wind speed fluctuates every second, the wind direction change every second during orientation change every second.

So it's not a state smooth flow, it just constantly changes. And in and if you try to extract energy from such a turbulent environment, the efficiency of the system will be very, very poor. So one of the first thing we need to do is we need to bring some kind of awkwardness in the system like this is extremely the environment is extremely chaos, but we need to bring some order. So that's why we created. So we initially thought we need to create a duck to smooth the flow, then as to create a system, which is actually visually looking, it should visually look good.

And it has to also case the airfoil. So no one should see the airfields moving, so people don't like when something is moving. So that is a very important factor. The other thing is because it's such a small area that we are trying to capture, the energy density is very small. So we have to somehow capture this energy in a very effective way. So we are using a ducting effect, which is basically the area in the inlet is quite large, and the area in the midsection right there for a lot of places much smaller, so just increase the velocity.

So the energy capture is, is enhanced by that. And combining everything we created the hex design, the oscillation inside game, if you have this hex designed to smooth the flow, and if you put something which is rotary inside the, the central hub will take a larger large area and create lots of turbulence. So we created an oscillation.

And the oscillation also helps the system to react to the change in the environment very, very fast, very effectively, very fast. So system is actually capable of changing to the environment almost every second.

So meaning they're kind of like oscillating. What's the material used on these, what would you call them oscillating arms or air foils?

We use some foam material, but that's when we will prototype to demonstrate or to do some testing, the OEMs are looking into different material selections, they already started it. So they are looking, they are selecting the materials based on resectability. And some of the environmental impacts that will have an also the environment it will go and work on.

So on the ground level, you'd have more dust and other other factors. And so they're they're taking everything into consideration, and they will they are they're working on it. The one thing is we our material selection is vast, because we are alternating. And because we are such a small device, the the effect of the load and other things is very limited. So you could use the choice of material is quite big.

Now that's great, because obviously want to use things that are recyclable. So we're not creating a bigger waste kind of footprint. When building we are also looking into recycled materials to so tell us about the wind studies that have been done and why those are important.

Typically made data anywhere in the world, they use average wind speeds. So they they collect the data and probably the I think the best is probably fine five minutes every five minutes to collect the data, or sometimes even one hour. Because the wind characteristics changes every second, you need to record this you need to understand the power is as the velocity increase the power of exponential increase.

So a small change in the wind velocity gives you a huge impact in the power dynamics. If you're using the mid data, because they're heavily averaging, you don't see that casting effect or the turbulence intensity. So if you use the mid data and if you try to what the power and if you use our data, and the way we capture the data is high frequency sensors, which captures data every second it can capture all the other factors of divinity, the direction, the orientation and the speed.

So, so to come out if you use the mid data and if you do the power calculation, and if you use our data and if you use the power calculation does actually three times it will come three times larger because the mid data is heavily averaged and that's the reason why we are doing a normal viewing studies with some of the universities in Scotland and we are we are using the sensor in multiple locations.

We are also doing CFD analysis and mainly for the airports. So how the building works, how the building influences the wind characteristics, where to install the system where not to install the systems.

When you when you're referring to the med data, what what is that referring to?

It's just I think different countries have different and agencies who weather stations also they measure the wind speed. The reason for that is there is no before there was no requirement for such high frequency data because nobody was entering into this area of energy capture. For them, like average wind speed is enough for them to predict some climate or weather or something.

Right? Well, that makes sense. What is the wind speed that it takes to power your units as opposed to the wind speed that it takes to power a major, say one megawatt wind turbine.

And so we call it a cut in and cut out speed. So a very large wind turbine, they could cut in at like as close to three meters per second. from our, from our studies, we want to do our system can cut in at even lower wind speed, but we are developing the system to have a cut in wind speed of four meter per second. Yes, it is quite high. So you will lose a lot of energy below four meters per second.

The reason why we are keeping at four meters per second is our system is very small, the available energy below four meter per second is too tiny to do commercially extract for such a small device. So that's why we kept it at four meter per second. Due to gusting the average wind speed will be around 6789 meter per second. That's where you extract most amount of the energy. And our system can extract energy up to 18 meter per second.

And how fast is that in terms of like kilometers per hour miles per hour?

Probably about like 15-16 kilometers per hour cut in and then probably cut out probably about like 18-20 kilometers per hour. I'm just we don't use kilometers per hour. So I'm just like, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

So in terms of turbines and solar panels, what what is the benefit of your product over these turbines or solar panels.

So Vinter, banks play a key role in in green energy. And they play a key role in certain specific areas. And because our because our targets are like we need to be 100%, green by 2030, by 2050, and so on, the targets are quite strict, and we understand that that we need to go towards the green is probably not the most important factor for the world. There's also limitations from these technologies, whether it's wind or solar.

So for wind turbines, it can only operate in certain environments. And we are actually filling up these environments quite rapidly. Solar is more stable, because we understand the way the sun shines. It's only the cloud factor which affects but we do understand it. Very good now after 30 years of data corruption, but if only the sun only shines during the day. And in the northern hemisphere during the wintertime, the sun doesn't shine that often.

So there's a gap here. So we got lots of built up areas, which we're not utilizing for power generation, they're already used their natural resources to create this large cities, farms and other things were used these areas. The only option we have is to put solar panels and solar panels is even though they are very good, they have some limitation. So there is a huge gap here.

So, how to fill this this is why this urban wind technologies will come and play a key role by extracting micro power generation in areas where wind turbines cannot penetrate or areas where solar cannot generate.

So those your does your hex unit actually rotate to get the you know, when the wind changes direction can your unit take advantage of that changing wind direction?

Its external future. So we have done some insights in the UK and we have also looked into some of the wind characteristics in Europe. So in most of the countries in the Europe, the wind predominantly blows within a narrow region. The prevailing wind the high wind speed comes in a very narrow region, which is probably about 60 degrees and and time to time it's flips completely in the opposite direction.

So the way we created the duck is it can take it can work effectively in 60 degrees. It can take the wind either coming in one direction or from the opposite direction. So I can do both. There are areas where the window is even more turbulent, so it can go 360 degrees in some of the areas and in those areas you could create you could have a pivot change where it could change according to the change in the wind direction. But that's an extra feature and that should add some cost to that.

Well, you're listening to A Climate Change. This is Matt Matenr and I've got Karthik Velayutham. Sorry, I'm butchering your last name. Karthik is the founder and CTO of Katrick Technologies and we'll be right back with Karthik.

And you’re listening to A Climate Change, and I've got Karthik, who is the founder and CTO of Katrick Technologies. Karthik, I want to ask you about the patented technologies that you've created for these wind turbines that oscillate and don't rotate. Tell us a little bit about what patents you've obtained? And are you still working on further patent protection?

Yeah, so we got a couple of patents for doing wind technology, the patents that we apply because they are quite novel. So what we do is we don't apply the patent based on a product we apply the patent based on concept. So that means a number of different products can come out from these concepts. And we are able to do that because we are bringing unique ideas into the into the technology world.

So what we have covered is functionality of the system, the concept of how to extract energy from the turbulent wind condition that could that itself could generate so many different products product line that could address different markets segment. And we also got patent to capture the turbulent in in a different in a in a different powertrain.

So we could use a number of different powertrains, whether it's mechanical hydraulics or Eragon, pneumatics and so many different options you could use, and there are so many different product lines you can get out from it.

Well, let's brainstorm on that a little bit. Sounds like you already have, but how would How do you envision this going in different directions in terms of using those different technologies you just discussed.

Um, so um, if you take let's say a car, there are different types of car to there are like SUVs, there are four by four there, hatchback saloon, they're all meant to serve different purpose, they might have different engine, they might have a different powertrain, they might have a different gear system controls, so body shape and so on.

So, similar to that, this then urban wind technology will have different or do you say different product lines, which will address different markets. So for wind farms, you would have much larger system which was which work in a different power trying to address those market for the industries you have, they have their own scope. And so they have a different powertrains and different shape.

And they will, they will address those industries for residential they're much smaller system which needs to go on the roof, plug and play very similar to solar. So they will have a different powertrains and different design features.

So so everything you could segment, and because we are predicted fully, so the OEM, so the manufacturers, they don't need to worry for the next 20 years so they could keep on release multiple product lines and keep covering more and more end users.

Well, I guess I would push back a little bit here because I'm a lawyer and that's what we do. I'll ask you know, there has been when technology around for what 500 years or more capturing the wind. What if somebody comes and says well, Karthik Yeah, that's a you know, an interesting idea but there's been when turbans and things like this for hundreds of years, why can't we kind of do the same thing you're doing? How do you patent an idea like that?

It's because yes, when the windmills are there for like, I don't know, maybe 1,000 years or more than that, that's converting the kinetic energy from the wind into your rotary motion. We didn't patent that we paid into a particular concept, which is suitable to work in the urban environment. So the patent covers, what, what is the problem statement and how we are tackling the problem statement.

And because that hasn't been first, the urban wind hasn't been understood clearly. And second, because we understood this and because these are the factors, or these are the designs that needs to be there, we could actually cover the concept level. So we could, we don't need to stick with this x, we can have different designs, we can have number of different number of airfoil. So there are so many features that we can add in or take take off to suit a particular market. And that's how we protect the patent.

Do you see any other competitors kind of jumping into this area to use competing technology? Or is this kind of virgin territory?

There are there are a lot of urban wind technologies. To be honest, there are lots of people tried on this, the one clear advantage we have is the understanding of the environment that where we went to work, I think that's where we we differentiate ourselves. So a lot of rotary system to work in the urban environment. And as I said before, rotaries doesn't work because of the environmental conditions.

And there are also lots of other oscillating device too. But where we have achieved the success is by understanding and then through the understand understanding, we have developed a design particularly suited for that environment.

Now, are there any oscillating systems that are that have hit the market already?

And you know, there are there are like some trials and trials are very different to where we are doing. Some of them are open open systems, which oscillates in open air. But not nothing particular, close enough to us. And we also got the patent granted in a number of countries.

So it's also coming into the it's also filed in the US?

So probably very soon, we'll get that into grant status. We did. So from the international search report, we didn't get too much change back.

Okay. So you patented in the EU already?

Yeah. So we repeat, and in particular, in areas where it is we protect the technologies in EDR vertex would be very useful as the end user and also the areas where it will be manufactured. So we have covered those areas.

Okay. Yeah. We're curious as to whether or not you've patented in China and whether it's protected there since that's obviously an enormous market.

Yeah, yeah.

So they are all markets, as well as India or?

Yeah, India, even filed in Saudi Arabia, because we were called in for one of the meetings in Saudi Arabia. But it was organized by their finance minister about renewable bringing venue technology, they are quite keen to manufacture it, and to supply in the Middle East.

There are lots of areas to address there, because they have vast amount of pipelines, especially in the Iraq, Saudi Arabia and so on. They're all remote locations. For for some reason, solar is okay. But because of these few heat and other things, they don't they want something to balance. So this wind technologies for them is very useful.

Okay, that's interesting. Well, I was just back at the COP28 conference in Dubai. And that was come countries in the Gulf are are investing a lot of money billions and billions of dollars into clean green technology.

And maybe in part because they see the wave of the future both financially it's going in that direction, as well as they're experiencing some of the worst effects of climate change on the ground in those countries and it's and the edge of unlivable at the temperatures that it hits in the summertime.

Yeah. And also a lot of people that we never thought would be interested like banks, for instance, for the airport. So they are seeing not as a green technology they're seeing as a marketing piece so they could fund the fund the airport, but but they could actually put your ad or their logo on all these hex.

They do this for a lot of airports. So they think like okay, this actually a very good marketing piece so we could Actually funds. So it's a win win situation for the airport for the bank for for the, for us. So, so that's also interesting screen. We didn't talk about that. So there are so many different people are coming towards and talking about, like how to utilize this technology and how to benefit?

Well, that's, I think one of the ways that this whole environmental problem will be solved is harnessing capitalism with technology, like the ones you've created to, to, you know, for the profit motive. I mean, unfortunately, that's the way the world is that, you know, business operates on having to make money and we've got to create ways where green companies are going to make lots of money and then that will incentivize investors to invest.

Speaking of which are are you all looking for investors at this point in time and how much money do you need to raise to kind of take your company to the next level?

Yeah, we are currently doing some investment round. We are we are talking to some large investment wings. Currently we are looking for 3 million investment to take it to the next stage. We are also open for some smaller invest investment so in the UK, we do yes, so we take out some tax benefit. But there are lots of people from America who came and invest in it in the technology already. And there are lots of people currently we are talking to, so so we are open for any.

What's the minimal investment that you are open to it this time.

Probably in dollars, about like $5,000 because the amount of work we need to because it's coming from America there will be some work KYC and other works. So to be better. We are a short team so it will be easier for us to take anything over $5,000 as investment.

So we're close to the end but the program, but Karthik it was a pleasure having you on the program and everybody should check out Katrick Technologies that's K-A-T-R-I-C-K Technologies, grade technology company in Scotland and Karthik is founder and CTO of the company.

And I look forward to great things from the company and years to come. And everybody tune into us at AClimateChange.com And you can follow us on Spotify or Apple or iHeart to listen to old shows on that.

So everybody have a great week and tune in next week.