PB-E9 DISCUSS 031324-mast ===

Paul Adelstein: [00:00:00] Welcome back to prison breaking everyone. I'm Paul.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I'm Sarah. We're grateful, as always, to have you with

Paul Adelstein: us. So this was a big episode. We just watched it, re watched it together. We just had a re watch party together, and there's a lot going on. There's some narrow escapes, there's some comeuppances, there's some getting it on.

Sarah Wayne Callies: There's a new word that I had to look

Paul Adelstein: up. Wait, what? You had to work that out? You had to look up a word. Oh, yes. Right.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. Remember? Derogated. Derogated. Derogated. Michael's psychiatrist says it in our scene. Um, and I actually, I'm such a nerd. I went back to my script and I was like, did I do my good actor thing and look up this word?

And I did not. I had not written it down in the margin, [00:01:00] which maybe Sarah doesn't

Paul Adelstein: know the word.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Maybe not. Or maybe old Sarah, younger Sarah knew the word. Um, do you want to, do you want to guess what it means?

You

Paul Adelstein: don't have to. Derogated. Like, it's like derogatory, like, like, uh, reduced, um, Criticized?

Limited?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Dude, yes. Entirely. Yes, entirely. Um, according to Merriam Webster, derogate means to cause. I'm

Paul Adelstein: very excited to talk about this episode, but first, should we do the index? We shall

Sarah Wayne Callies: do the index. Let's do it. Paul, you want to give people the Kallistein Index? The

Paul Adelstein: Kallistein Index, my friend. This episode of Prison Break Season 1 was titled Tweener, and it aired on Halloween.

October 31st, 2005, Paul Schering, Prison Break creator, wrote it. [00:02:00] He wrote the pilot, of course, also. And it was directed by Matt Earl Beasley.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, a recap. The guard room repair job is taken from Michael, threatening his plan. Sarah talks to Michael's pee psychiatrist. That's a reference to the Animaniacs for anyone in our generation.

Uh, Sarah talks to Michael's psychiatrist and realizes that he suffers from low latent inhibition, making him both sympathetic and a genius. Wow. And irresistible to women. Um, Bellick tells Abruzzi that the mob hasn't paid for his protection this month and Abruzzi's position may be given to Fiorello, whose name I'm learning for the first time, Fiorello.

So Abruzzi gouges out Fiorello's eye, as you do. Uh, meanwhile, Donovan and Saverin

Paul Adelstein: learn That is Monica, that is, uh, Veronica Donovan and Nick Saverin. True

Sarah Wayne Callies: story. Uh, they learn from the wife of the VP's brother that his commercial [00:03:00] partners could be the ones behind his death.

Paul Adelstein: All right. For some numbers, 9.

01 million viewers tuned in. We were let in by last week's episode, as we have been throughout. This first season, uh, that was the old head and we were up against something different on NBC this time, a rerun of Medium, as well as the usual Two and a Half Men on CBS, the NFL. I'm ABC with Steelers. In

Sarah Wayne Callies: pop culture news, a few days before this episode dropped on October 28th, the final episode of Everyone, Everybody Loves Raymond aired.

Uh, that ended a huge nine season run for the show. Um, Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes announced their engagement while Jennifer Aniston and Brad Pitt announced their divorce. I guess that was making their tabloid headlines.

Paul Adelstein: There's some kind of circle game, um, quote here, [00:04:00] like, things go up, things go down.

Time is a we go.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yes. Uh, and Kate, this is, this one makes me, this I sort of love a whole bunch. In extra random pop culture news, Chuck Norris's satirical facts had become, for some unknown reason, maybe we don't need a reason, very popular. For instance, Yes. Chuck Norris doesn't read books. He stares them down until he gets the information

Paul Adelstein: he wants.

Oh, so many good ones. Chuck

Sarah Wayne Callies: Norris never retreats. He just attacks in the opposite direction. Amazing. Or lastly, and this is my favorite, Death once had a near Chuck Norris experience. And of course, for those of you who are paying very close attention to the credits, uh, Eric Norris, Chuck Norris son, was in fact our stunt coordinator from season two

Paul Adelstein: forward.

Yes. And he was a wonderful actor. Guy and a really good stunt coordinator. Yes. It seemed like, it seemed like a very, [00:05:00] uh, Chuck oriented family. Everybody seemed really cool, right?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Pro Chuck? Who isn't pro Chuck?

Paul Adelstein: Did Eric live in Dallas? Do you remember? Did he live in Dallas?

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah, because I think when Gary Brown brought the show to Dallas, Uh huh.

He nabbed most of the crew from Walker, Texas Ranger. Oh,

Paul Adelstein: okay. There you go. Yeah. Got it. Dallas, Texas, Norris. It's all making sense. Thanks. In, uh, real news, news of the world, the New Orleans Superdome, which had been rebuilt in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina weeks before, reopened with a Monday night football game between the Saints and the Atlanta Falcons.

The big symbolic step in the recovery. of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. The UN released a report that the global population had hit 6. 5 billion people and warned about overpopulation and the impact that would have on resources. [00:06:00] And President George W. Bush nominated Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court replacing Sandra Day O'Connor, first female justice in the court after her retirement.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And that cheerful bit of, uh, information that had no bearing on women's rights for generations will bring us to the watch party. This is the recap of the watch party. We're going to count it down. It's condensed. If you want to listen to the whole thing, obviously you can subscribe and you can listen along with us.

Okay. We're gonna count down in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Diddly do, diddly do, diddly do, diddly do, diddly do,

Paul Adelstein: diddly do, diddly do, diddly do. Alright.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, no. Oh, no. Trigger warning. Eee! I forgot that happened in this episode. That was beautifully done, by the way. Oof. Brutal. That [00:07:00] work from Wentworth was really beautiful. You know, you're not very nice to Danny. No. Not nice.

Paul Adelstein: It was our dynamic. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Hahaha. That's a rough weapon. Also, what's that weird

Paul Adelstein: light?

Oh, he doesn't kill him though. Oh my god, I remember this.

Sarah Wayne Callies: That's a shot. Oh, ho, ho, ho,

Paul Adelstein: ho. Doesn't kill him, just brutalizes

Sarah Wayne Callies: him. There's a code, there's a code, there's a code, there's a code. This is a code family. It's LJ. I'm with Veronica, I'm okay. Oh, I'm gonna cry a bunch in this episode. Thank you for that rewatch folks, uh, for being with us and we will be right back to talk about the episode.

Paul Adelstein: Okay, welcome back fishes. We have got our notes from the rewatch, some things that we want to touch on and talk about and we have, uh, a few [00:08:00] things we wanted to talk about from the last episode of Jessalyn. A few things we didn't get to. Is that right? Yes. Oh, some things we

Sarah Wayne Callies: didn't get to. Okay. Yeah, because we had such an amazing conversation with Jessalyn, we didn't actually talk much about the episode.

Copy that. Um, but I took a bunch of notes on the tweener episode of things that I wanted to talk to you about. Okay, so there was a running shot that we flagged between LJ and Kellerman, your mom was on set, you said some unspeakable things to Marshall under the car, like, I want to get to all these things.

I kind of want to start with your mom on set. I don't know why.

Paul Adelstein: Uh, we shot in Chicago. I'm from Chicago. So my family was there. My mom, I remember my mom was working still downtown and I think she came by that day and it was when I was chasing LJ. Um, uh, after the death of his mother and mother, boyfriend, stepdad, mother, whatever.

[00:09:00] mother's boyfriend. Um, and I remember my mom was there and she just watched me run for like an hour and a half. And I was like, no, I really actually do some acting too. But then she had to go. Uh, so she didn't see then me torturing poor LJ, or I should say Marshall, who was hiding under a car and I was, uh, hunting him in the, in

Sarah Wayne Callies: the parking lot.

What did you say to him? You said you like said some things to him to get some reaction.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, I wanted to talk about, I wanted to talk about this. Actually, I wouldn't call it improvising because. Sometimes when you're doing, uh, shooting a reaction shot of somebody, Um, you will say things off camera to get a reaction out of them, even if it's kind of, I mean, part of the show, but something that would never necessarily be on the show.

Like you would swear, you would use, turn, you would be harsher than your character might be, just to kind of try to elicit a reaction from them. Um, Oh? Oh, I [00:10:00] said, and there was a whole thing about, um, my character teasing. LJ that his mother was dead and we shot my side of that first and then Marshall was under the car and they had a camera like on his face and he's pretty good at getting worked up.

Um, he's a good actor in that regard and he, and he said, you know, you can torture me as much as you want, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And I, I said some really horrible things, really horrible things. And I always think. Well, you know, isn't that the assignment? Didn't you want me to say some horrible things? And then afterwards, people look at you like, you fucked up, dude.

You're fucking weird, dude. And I'm like, well, we were playing. We're playing. I'm supposed to be upsetting him. I'm going to say things about his dead mother. And then people are like, that's really harsh, man.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, especially because often when you're in a situation like that, you've either been given [00:11:00] permission by the other actor, or you've Even the ask by the director, but privately.

Hey, Paul, do me a favor. Tell my, tell, uh, Marshall that, you know, his mom, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They just know that in the middle of the scene, you start

Paul Adelstein: going off stuff that's not in the script. It's like slightly personal and mean and clearly designed to get a reaction. Um, I wanted to tell my running story.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, tell me the running story. I want to hear it.

Paul Adelstein: So I got out of the car to chase LJ, and I'd never done that. No, I had done that. I should actually say I had done that before, but not on the street and not when it was like wet. Sometimes they will, oftentimes, they will spray water all over the street to, not to make it look wet, just to make it look darker.

It is dangerous for everybody that's, yeah, it's just dangerous for people that are sprinting in their wingtips. [00:12:00] Ooh. Uh, but I enjoyed it. I love that kind of, I love that kind of thing. I, you know, I was like, um, Badass, I'm gonna run, it's gonna be great. And I ran, and I was really fast, and a bunch of the camera guys were like, You're too fast, you're running too fast.

And I was like, yeah, like, felt so, you know. Then, somebody, I don't remember who it was, Billy, who was a, I don't know if it was Billy that said it to me or one of the other camera operators, he said, you know, I did a Mel Gibson movie, and when he runs, uh, to, like, make up space for the camera, he doesn't run as fast as he can, but he really pumps his arms, and it makes, and you know, they just shoot him from the waist up, and it really looks like he's running fast, so I was like, okay, so in the second shot, Or one of the sets.

I'm doing that and it looks really bad. Did they not shoot you from the waist up? I think somebody, I think somebody, uh, sold me a bill of goods on that. That's

Sarah Wayne Callies: very funny. Um, I love it. I mean, cameramen, [00:13:00] you know, because they're following us with equipment. I think often we get asked to slow down, and every single time it happens, it makes me feel like a stud for just a minute.

Yeah, yeah, right. I mean, hey, could you slow down? We're having trouble following you. Camera,

Paul Adelstein: camera, we can't even catch up with me. I'm so fast.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I get that a lot from people carrying 70 pounds of film equipment on their shoulders going back. Right, yes. It does look really cool. I will say like all of those scenes with you and LJ, they have such a palpable level of threat that gives the rest of the show such real stakes, you know, because you do have this sense that like the bad guy, it really will When?

Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: I remember feeling, uh, and it was fun, it was the first time I'd ever really played a character whose actions every single time altered the trajectory of the story [00:14:00] massively. Mmm. Mm hmm. I'm just, actually just realizing it as I say it that way, like, you know, like, well, why did this feel so impactful?

It's like, well, You know, it changes the tone of the show when you kill the kid's parents.

Sarah Wayne Callies: The dramaturgy of your character is never irrelevant. I think it also tells the audience, like, really not many people are safe here.

Paul Adelstein: It also tells the audience, which was great for Me as an actor, oh, this person is Will, mm-Hmm,

Like, they're capable of this. And like, that's the goal. Like they, they will kill people in their way. And that just then it makes every scene you're in going forward, like super tense and powerful. They're putting the bells behind this, but also it's like, oh, he could just pull his gun on and kill somebody.

Go, you

Sarah Wayne Callies: know? And you know, the other thing that's cool about it is they played it and you and Danny played it. As though that was new for you. And so every time you took a step like that, Danny [00:15:00] kind of looked over and went, what the

Paul Adelstein: What the fuck are we doing? Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. And so we get a sense that like this guy is going further and further and further down the evil path.

Paul Adelstein: So it, it, it feels like, uh, you know, it's. about to slip out of control at any moment, which is, which is great.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. There was something else I wanted to ask you about getting out of the car with a gun at Lake Mercer.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, I just, uh, these are silly little, um, actor things that I was getting used to. Um, you know, there was a, there was a, Uh, if this is too insider baseball, I apologize, but you know, there was a lot of times where Kellerman would just produce a gun in a scene and I was like, there's no way this guy has this gun on him.

Like it, there's nowhere to put it. There is a thing I learned when I studied [00:16:00] secret service in particular that first of all, when you look at secret service, when they're at work, they never have their jackets buttoned. No. And there were actually, um, specific guns made by one of the gun manufacturers, I don't know which, that was, that was, um, contracted by Secret Service.

There were these long guns that held flat against your body so that you could pick them on under a suit. And it was a, it's a whole thing of, obviously, nobody should know who Secret Service or you can't tell if they're armed and all that stuff. But there were a lot of things with Kellerman where it was just like, you know, you know, No, no jacket, which was fine, and, or no overcoat, and it was just like, and then you're over here, and then you're over here, and then you have a gun against the guy, and it was like, wait, wait, did we have to have this gun during the scene, or can it just be the magic gun?

And, normally it was just a magic gun, and the, on the bus thing, at like, whatever it was, um, He really wanted the gun [00:17:00] out, but there was no way to get out of the car. I mean, it sounds ridiculous to say it out loud now, but there was no way to get out of the car and then take the gun out. Like it basically, so you see me get out of the car.

It's like, I already have the gun in my hand out. I guess

Sarah Wayne Callies: it doesn't. Like you've just been riding with it on your

Paul Adelstein: lap. I remember it being weird, but did it look weird to you when you watched it?

Sarah Wayne Callies: You. Pointed it out. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, and I my actor brain immediately followed your actor brain To that same place because like we're theater nerds.

And so the why is it all matter? Yeah,

Paul Adelstein: like where's the thing? How'd you put the thing over there? Well, how do you get it? yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: and I you know, I feel like when for people who come from our background usually the first three years of your career is Just a lot a long series of directors going. It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter And just for me, just when I start to trust that, and hit your mark for the love of God. Um, but then I'll watch something, usually not something I'm in because I don't watch much of that, but you watch [00:18:00] something and it drives you crazy because you're like, that's ridiculous.

You just pulled the Bible out of your back pocket.

Paul Adelstein: Do you have pet peeves? Do you have acting pet peeves? I have a couple. Not of that I've done, like, when I see act, when you see things that you're like, I'll tell you a couple of them. One is there's no, there's nothing, there's nothing in that luggage. That is, yes, that luggage weighs nothing and it's bugging the shit out of me.

Same thing with, uh, coffee cups, paper cups to go. We were like, clearly there's no liquid in there. And if there is, it's not hot. And you're not even pretending it's hot. And that's. But that's just, nobody else notices

Sarah Wayne Callies: that, right? No, that kind of thing drives me crazy. And I have more than once asked for, uh, like, can I please get liquid?

For some reason, there was some, there was some scene I did on this show where they were like, no, you can't have liquid for some reason. So they like filled it full of sand. And I was [00:19:00] like, I appreciate the weight. It is now the heaviest cup of coffee known to man, but sure, like I, I'll take it as long as there's something in it.

I, what, something that drives me nuts, um, is when somebody quote unquote drinks from something, but clearly doesn't like you, they don't swallow, there's no lipstick on the thingy, or there's an entire plate of food in front of them for an entire scene. I mean, and they eat one cherry tomato. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I get it.

It's hard to, the continuity and you don't want to eat five pounds of steak in the course of shooting one scene. But, um,

Paul Adelstein: yeah, those are my little Many stories about that kind of thing. Okay. Because I am an, I am a food, I love being a food actor. I love eating food in scenes and stuff. And that actually ends up being, it can be, it can be complicated for you.

You end up eating a lot of food. A lot of food. Yeah, yeah. And it has to match. The continuity has to work. It [00:20:00] can be a real pain in the ass for everybody. But I found myself in a couple situations where it's scripted.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Like the menu?

Paul Adelstein: Uh, well, sure. But no, but once on like, once on Private Practice and once on, uh, Get Shorty, which is a show that, uh, Such a few episodes.

Um, not the movie. Wait, it was a show? Yeah. It was a show with Chris O'Dowd, Davey Holmes made it, and Ray Romano's in. Speaking of everybody loves Raymond, it's a really good show. Um, and I played an agent, a Hollywood agent, and there's a scene where it says he, it says he eats an entire steak, like during the conversation.

Yeah. So,

Sarah Wayne Callies: yeah. Did you do Barf Bucket? Um,

Paul Adelstein: I did. Yeah. Barf Bucket.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay. I mean, I didn't. Yeah, I've

Paul Adelstein: never had to do that. I didn't do, I did barf bucket like in my trailer at the day. Okay. Like it was like, sometimes people like Yeah, you can chew and spit it out. Yeah. No, I pulled it. [00:21:00] I pulled the trigger. It was just like, it was one of those things where you're like, okay, I just ate 98 ounces of steak.

Like, I can suffer. I can deal with this for the next two and a half days. Or I can just, you know.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Meat sweats.

Paul Adelstein: I mean, it was literally, I was having meat sweats. I didn't know that was a thing and I was like, what's happening to me? Yeah, they're for real.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I, you know, I've never really had a situation like this happen to me, but when we shot the last, I think it was the last scene.

Uh, episode of season one, might have been the one before that of Walking Dead. There's a scene where we're all in the, we're all in the CDC and everyone's feasting for the first time because there's abundant food. And I was sitting next to Chandler Riggs, uh, as I did the entire first season. Season, right?

Like when you play a mom, um, your key prop is the kid playing your kid. And I say prop because they often gave him not very much to do in a scene. And so we [00:22:00] would figure stuff out together and we had a lot of fun. But in this scene, there was a pre wrapped like little Debbie's brownie. And in the first take, he ate the whole thing.

And I was like, you know what? I mean, God love him. He was like 11. Yeah. And I was like, this is, this is not, and I think Berndthal was with me on this one and we're like, Hey bro, you gotta like, we're just super worried about you. And he was like, look me in the eye. There is no amount of brownies that I can't put down.

And I was like, okay, bud, well listen, we're here for you if things change. And like two hours later I looked over at him and he's got like tears in his eyes and you know, Oh I'm a woman. And I was like, John, you got to go talk to him. You know, like, I think, I think he needs a dude right

Paul Adelstein: now to say, like, John, we'll have to do this thing.

Yeah. Or to take

Sarah Wayne Callies: him to the bathroom and help him make room or whatever. I don't know what happened in there, but John came out and he's like, we can't do this anymore. So I went to our director who I believe was Guy Ferland. And I was like, he's shorter than [00:23:00] the rest of us. Can you be above him? And so they shot the rest of the scene because he was like up to my shoulder, but I mean the poor kid and I was just like, and I think, I think he had the brownie sweats.

Um,

Paul Adelstein: uh, that Kevin Hart show I did, um, uh, True Story, which is on Netflix. I played his manager basically. And uh, there was hilarious in that. There was a thing that the. That the character had, had some eating issues and he had gone through Overeaters Anonymous, or he was, sorry, he was still, I think, working the program.

He was still working the 12 steps of Overeaters Anonymous. And so we try to do a thing subtly every now and then. Your character? Yeah. We try to do, uh, a scene, or we try to incorporate a thing where the, when he was stressed out, he would start eating. And there was one app, one big scene between the two of us.

Where the wheels are really fucking coming off [00:24:00] and in the on stage where of this hotel It was a hotel a hotel set. There was a huge jar. I mean like a I'm making big huge motions peanut M& Ms like A lot. Thousands.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Like a guess how many are in this jar? Yeah, yeah.

Paul Adelstein: And I started, you know, eating them in rehearsal, and I was like, they're not right.

This is too much. Like, they're gonna they're gonna think it's way too much. And I just kept, and they loved it. They were like, oh no, this is great. I ended up eating five and a half pounds of You know what happened to us? And they didn't use it. My janky goodness. And they didn't use it. And they didn't use it!

I mean, and I gotta say, it was one of those things where like, halfway through, I remember saying to Kevin, like, Like, you, he's like, he loved it. Which is the most satisfying. You can make someone like that, like, Yeah. Laugh or giddy. Part laugh. It's his show, you know, so you're like, Oh, I'm glad he's liking this.

I was kind of like, they're never going to, this is never going to [00:25:00] make it in, right? He was like, no, but I love it. Keep doing it. No, but don't stop.

Sarah Wayne Callies: No, but don't stop. You're doing a public service. Yeah. Speaking of no, but don't stop. Yeah. My favorite part of this entire episode is Phil Van Leer and Becky.

Oh my

Paul Adelstein: goodness.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Like the little, I just, like this, I mean, P. S. this is one of my favorite episodes. I'm not entirely sure why, but there's something about it that I think is very cool. There's a lot of different twists and turns and not only Michael being really clever, but Veronica being clever and, uh, and LJ being clever and, you know, people, uh, A Maudie has like a cool, not a Maudie.

Um, Sucre has a save, but

Paul Adelstein: it feels a little bit like, it feels a little bit like, um, and then Ringo joined and then we really felt like the band. Like it feels like, and I don't think it's just because Lane joins, although he is, he is great. And it's a great character, but [00:26:00] like, Pinas and what's going on outside the prison, like with Nick and, and, uh, Veronica, what's going on inside the prison.

It feels like, okay, here's the, like the table has been set. Like, it feels like, okay, now it's on, I mean, I know it's episode, what is it, eight or nine? Like, that's a lot of setup. But it does feel like, oh, now we see the parameters of what's about to happen clearly, in my opinion. Yeah. It feels like it hits a certain kind of stride.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It feels like they know what the show really is. Yeah. And I'm actually, forgive the noise, I'm looking for when we shot this, because, you know, Okay, the old head, my last revised script was from, okay, so my blue draft of Tweener.

Paul Adelstein: This is Tweener, right? Yeah,

Sarah Wayne Callies: Tweener. Hmm. Um, my last revised script from Tweener was September 13th, so yeah, I guess we hadn't aired yet.

I was wondering, what I'm curious about is [00:27:00] when The Writer's Room. starts getting feedback about how the show is doing, because that must be really interesting. Did that ever happen to you on Impostors, where like, you've written 12 episodes, you've shot them, and then now all of a sudden they start airing?

Not in

Paul Adelstein: Impostors, it didn't. It happened obviously, um, Private practice. I'm trying to think. Yeah. I mean, the network shows operate more like that. There's more episodes and this is usually a tighter schedule. When I was running Impostors, we had shot the entire season before it aired, which, you know, whatever the schedule ends up being, you just kind of have to deal with it.

We were talking about this the other day. It's one of the wonderful things about television can be. that a showrunner will adjust to what they see in front of them. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, and I guess maybe at least at this point, this many episodes in, they've had a chance to watch dailies, to watch cuts [00:28:00] and go, Hey, the show lives here.

One of my other favorite beats is the, um, This is tied into the, the Phil and Becky stuff. Uh,

Paul Adelstein: you really love the Phil and Becky stuff?

Sarah Wayne Callies: I think, well, partly because it's such a departure from the rest of the show and it's a little bit of a like, Hey, nobody's dying in this moment. Yeah. These are just, you know, a couple of, a couple of people living their

Paul Adelstein: best lives.

Couple of hor, couple of horny teenagers,

Sarah Wayne Callies: couple, a couple of horny teenagers in their whatever's fifties. Yeah. Uh, in a, in a. Prison. Um, also, but so they, they, they leave and the Khans see them leave. And one of Amadi's very few lines in the episode, there was not a ton of him. He just goes, do you think he found the hole?

And Michael, like half turns his head. The whole thing is played in a two shot. They don't cut to, they don't, but like, it works

Paul Adelstein: above the hole. So that is

Sarah Wayne Callies: a double. So well, yeah, it just works really, really, really well. It does. It's

Paul Adelstein: a hard thing to pull off too. [00:29:00]

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I think they figured out like, oh, this is a part of the show.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah. I also love that they have this device of, um, the CO and the secretary having an affair and they just, they just milk it for all the plot turns they can milk it

Sarah Wayne Callies: for. Why does nobody figure out that Michael's in the Pope's office? Oh, because they're flirting. Why does nobody find the hole? Because they're having sex.

Because they're fucking, yeah. It's so great. It's a, it's a lovely. Yeah. But then, coming back to Amaudi, I actually made a little note of like, it starts with just a whole bunch of nasty language coming at Sucre from Bellic, and that kind of keeps going throughout the show. He doesn't have a whole lot else to say.

And I want, like, I want to talk to a Maori about how that felt. And also, I [00:30:00] wonder how that would be handled today. Like, which is to say, if you are the only. Uh, Latinx actor on a set, and somebody's job is to throw a bunch of nasty, racially charged language at you. One of the things I know that's happening in Canada right now is, you know, and this is different in some ways, but not all of them, is that like, there's a bunch of protocols when we're asking Indigenous actors to perform culturally painful scenes, right?

Oh, really? Like, scenes of, yeah. Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah. So, there's actually a whole, um, the Indigenous Film Office has a whole set of protocols about having a trauma informed elder or, and or counselor on set so that when those actors are done with those scenes, whatever it brings up, they've got somebody. to go, Hey, could you help me take this out of my spirit and my heart [00:31:00] right now?

Because it's sitting there like a stone and let's get it out. Because even, yeah, even though I'm playing a role, it's tied to my real identity. Um, and it made me, it made me just wonder how, let me put it this way. If I were directing a scene right now where I've got an actor who's receiving a tremendous amount of verbal or physical.

abuse based on an identity position. I wonder if I wouldn't go to production or if production would suggest, like, can we have somebody on set that day for that person? Yeah. Kind of like an intimacy coordinator, but like a trauma processor. Yes. There's a better word for that, I'm sure.

Paul Adelstein: Um, um, but I also, I also think that a good director or, and, or producer worth their salt even before trauma coordinators, or whatever you would call it, would make sure [00:32:00] that the people participating and even the crew around were comfortable with what was happening.

If, I mean, it's just kind of the director's job. Everybody's comfortable with

Sarah Wayne Callies: their boundaries. Yeah, yeah. I wonder, um, something that we were going to talk about, I think, last episode, but slightly later, is that we got to go to the World Series of Baseball. Oh my gosh. Because these episodes aired during the World Series of Baseball, and Fox.

aired the actual World Series of actual baseball in actual Chicago. Yeah. While we were actually

Paul Adelstein: shooting. Yeah. And, uh, they got us tickets and they got us a really good seat, or they got us really good seats. And it was like, you had to wave to the camera. I remember first time I ever had to do that kind of thing.

Like, well, you guys went

Sarah Wayne Callies: separately. You went with the guys,

Paul Adelstein: right? I went with my dad and I ended up sitting Near, I have a picture of it somewhere, which is crazy. [00:33:00] And by picture, I don't mean a phone picture, I mean, somebody had like a disposable camera. I think it was a Maudie, couple of friends of his, and then some other people from the show, but there was like a ten or, I think Knepper, I ten of them, and it was pouring rain.

It was just a sloppy, gross night. I don't think it was the super long game. Do you remember what number it was? I don't. I don't remember what game it was. I know they swept him, so I remember they won. The catcher, what was his name? Drove in the winning run. The bottom of the, it might have been 10th. Might have been extra hittings, I don't remember, but it was pretty cool to go to a World Series game in Chicago, and not a Sox fan, Cubs fan, but it was still really cool, now a Cubs fan, but um, you know, some, uh, what year was it, two, some short 11 years later, we got to go to a Cubs World Series [00:34:00] game.

Sarah Wayne Callies: And I don't know about you, but we were, I mean, we'd just done the prison break. Uh, season five. So I ended up getting tickets to

Paul Adelstein: that. No, really? Yeah. Oh,

Sarah Wayne Callies: fantastic. Um, because I was working on Colony and Peter Jacobson was like, yes, wait, I need to go to this game. And so I didn't, like, we didn't go together, but I kept calling Todd Adair, who is a wonderful man who hooks up, uh, Fox actors with stuff like that.

And I was like, Peter Jacobson has to go to this game.

Paul Adelstein: Do you think we can set a goal for ourselves that we can somehow organically mention Peter Jacobson in every episode of this show?

Sarah Wayne Callies: That should be part of the drinking game. Have, have a beverage every time somebody mentions Peter Jacobson. He's so lovely.

He's also so inter, he's so deeply embedded in Chicago athletics. Yeah. Yes. Um, so I [00:35:00] went to the, I went to game one. Um, and my grandfather, so I was born in Chicago. My parents are both born in Chicago. My grandfather was

Paul Adelstein: a refugee. Michael Michael Reese. Michael Reese Hospital, I believe

Sarah Wayne Callies: Michael Reese Hospital, um, which has since been demolished.

Um, so my grandfather moved to Chicago, um, with his with his boss at the time from New York, uh, when he was a young man. And his boss at the time was Al Capone. That's the story for another time. But he was White Sox. Oh my goodness. And White Sox fans, um, had a super. Yes. Between, uh, world series appearances.

I think it was, what, 19? We talked about this in the last index, but it was super, super long. And so I got to go to game one because I had to go to L. A. for some press. It was the only one I was available with. And I ended up going with Johnny Messner and Shai McBride, who were on another Fox show together.

And [00:36:00] I don't even know Shai's real name, but everybody calls him Shai because he's from Chicago. Is that really

Paul Adelstein: why? And, yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Oh, I didn't know that. Um, cause they call Chicago Chi Town. They do. And, let me tell you, we, we had so much fun at the game, we went to Gibson's beforehand and had ourselves, you know, steak and

Paul Adelstein: martini,

Sarah Wayne Callies: big ol steak, not quite 96 ounces, but, um, we did have ourselves a steak and the game ended and they won and we had great seats right down at front.

And Chi, like. basically picked me up, put his arm around me, and he goes, so here's the thing, Chicago Riots, when we win, we really need to get out of the stadium. And he, Shai's a big guy, and he basically picked me up and threw me over his shoulder and was like, Messner, follow us. And we were in a car on our way out of the stadium.

By the time we got back to where we lived in Wicker Park, there were just like people on the streets, Um, okay, before we get to [00:37:00] our, uh, fan stuff, there is a story that we touched on that I feel like I need to explain. And I think this was actually from the old head, but in our, um, watch party, when they were picking up Marilyn and Marilyn died, I was like, it's surprisingly hard to kill a cat.

Um, because my husband had to

Paul Adelstein: kill it on television. Oh, gosh, here we go.

Sarah Wayne Callies: IRL. And it occurred to me. I should probably give a little context to that story. Right after we got married, and I mean, like, less than a year, within a few months, um, my husband went to Cambodia because a friend of his who lives there was opening a school, and my husband is a teacher.

And so his friend was like, I'm gonna open this school, I'd like you to come help teach the teachers. So Josh goes to Cambodia and it's like two days before he leaves and this cat wanders into the school. Now [00:38:00] it's Cambodia, so the school is poles and a roof and a concrete pad, but there's no walls. So the cat wanders into the school and starts biting kids, bites a bunch of kids, bites my husband.

runs off. Somebody later from nearby, from the village, was like, pretty sure that cat's rabid. So they call the um, hospital and they say well here's the thing we don't have a lot of rabies vaccine so you in order to have access to it you have to prove it and they were like how do you do that you have to bring the cat's

Paul Adelstein: head fucking hell

Sarah Wayne Callies: so Remember my husband at this point is like, I'm sorry.

Yeah. No, I mean, it's, it's insane. And it gets better because Cambodia is a Buddhist country. So somebody had caught this cat in a basket awful, but wouldn't give it to my husband. Cause he was like, they were like, you're just going to kill the cat. And as a Buddhist, I can't condone that [00:39:00] action. And Josh was like, okay, but also I, and these like six kids will die, die of rabies.

Paul Adelstein: You know, that rabies kills you. Like if you don't treat it, it actually kills

Sarah Wayne Callies: you. Every time. It's fatal. And it's a bad death. That

Paul Adelstein: really is like you go crazy and you're foaming at the mouth and shit. Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. And you get this hydrophobia. Kill that cat. So, so Josh basically gets a couple of people, a couple of, you know, adults who have this conversation.

Paul Adelstein: When you said gets a couple of people, I'm picturing pitchforks and torches now. So they get

Sarah Wayne Callies: the cat. A mob, if you will. Josh has to kill the cat and he was like Trying to kill this cat was shockingly hard and an absolute catastrophe Oh, that's and may or may not have involved a machete and then he had to go Where the hospital was and nam pen is like two hours on a moped so there's my husband Knowing that he's [00:40:00] been bitten by a rabid cat with the cat's head in a basket in a basket

Paul Adelstein: Oh, my goodness, just

Sarah Wayne Callies: like, and then finally, yeah,

Paul Adelstein: I mean, you know, they get there and it's like, here's the cat's head and they're like, yeah, that cat's fine.

No. You're like, yeah, you don't have

Sarah Wayne Callies: like 100 percent of rabid cats. So they treat all the kids. But the rabies thing is interesting because you get. A shot, at least back in whatever, 2002, you get a shot and then you need another shot six weeks later and then you need another one a few months later. And so Josh gets the first shot, gets back to Brooklyn where we're living.

We go to the doctor and the doctor goes, and I was shooting on location. He was like, so take this shot with you and give Josh his next shot on the precise time. And he gives me instructions and he goes, by the way, just so you understand, if you do it wrong. Because he was bitten in the foot and rabies is a disease that travels really slowly through fat [00:41:00] cells in the body.

he'll lose his

Paul Adelstein: foot or

Sarah Wayne Callies: something. No, it could still kill him, but it might take six years. So honestly, it wasn't until like six years after this that I

Paul Adelstein: was like, Oh, thank God. Oh my God. This is awful. This story is

Sarah Wayne Callies: awful. Well, I mean, the good news is that Josh and the kids are all alive. Um, and the cat was going to die anyway, because rabid rabies is fatal, but,

Paul Adelstein: uh, rabies will kill you.

Oh, that is really, that is really quite upsetting.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Folks, don't get bitten by a rabid animal. Um, yeah, should we wrap it up on that? Sure. Okay. I want to wrap us up with a little bit of a different fan finale. Um, we're going to do that, uh, when we come back. We'll see y'all in a minute.[00:42:00]

Alright, welcome back fishes. I'm going to figure out how to pluralize that any day now. Um, so here's, in our last episode, we talked with the great Jocelyn Gilsick, and we were joking about creating a series called The Perks. Um, how sometimes Jocelyn and I feel like being a woman in Hollywood back in those days.

Uh, you were just one of the perks that, uh, the male executives and men in power got to enjoy. Now you don't have to take that premise. We're just going to talk about the title. The title is the perks. It's starring Sarah Gilsig, and the male lead of the show is Paul Edelstein. Oh! Oh my goodness. Send us your, we can't do this without you, this is called Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul.

I'm not leaving you behind. Pitch. Send us your pitches, fishes. Pitches. Send us your pitches, bitches. We say that with love. Yeah. [00:43:00] And so, uh, you can send them in to us. On our Instagram, at prison break podcast, um, we want to hear your pitches for the perks. Um, it can be a riff on central perk from friends.

If you want to go soft, it can be a hard hitting documentary. If you, you know, this is, uh, all avenues are open. Um, and now Paul, I get to ask you questions that usually we ask our guests. So as we wrap up, if you were on death row, okay, first of all, I want to know what you did to get there. What have you done to get to death row?

Oof.

Paul Adelstein: Capital murder, I suppose. Okay. Um. Hopefully in a, I was going to say in the name of something noble. I don't know. It's pretty awful. It's pretty awful. [00:44:00] It's pretty awful to contemplate. Okay, go on. Go on.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, we'll skip it. Um, what's your last meal? I wish you guys could see his face right now. I like, he's like face down, grabbing his own hair.

It's either, it's either, it's either like, you know,

Paul Adelstein: a steak, potatoes, like peas and a beer, like some kind of like big hearty thing. Make sure you get your greens. Yeah, you gotta get those greens. Uh, or it's like a peanut butter and jelly. And like potato chips, or like Fritos or something, or something like super comforting food.

Amazing. Yeah. Really depressing.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Sorry, it wasn't meant to be depressing. No, no, no.

Paul Adelstein: I know. Everybody, it's so interesting. Everybody we ask that is like, oof, depressing. And I was like, just answer the question. And then I'm like, oh yeah, that is kind of weird to contemplate.

Sarah Wayne Callies: It is, huh? Well, see, this is why it's useful for us to do this with each other.

Yes. [00:45:00] Um, so the next thing. That we wrap this up with is me saying, all right, I'll fill in the blank. Don't get sent to prison. But if you do get sent to prison,

Paul Adelstein: establish dominance immediately.

Sarah Wayne Callies: I love it. Cool.

Paul Adelstein: That's it for our show. You guys, um, come join us for our rewatch party and our next episode for Sleight of Hand getting right towards the middle of season one, Prison Break.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Take good care of each other, y'all. We'll see you next time. Bye! Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul is a Calibre Studio production.

Your hosts have been friends without besties, Sarah Wayne Callies and Paul Edelstein. Our prison warden has been producer Ben Haber. Our head of Jailhouse Rock is Paul Edelstein, who made the music for this podcast. Keeping us slim and trim, the prison yard has been sound designer [00:46:00] and editor, the great Jeff Schmidt.

Keeping us up to date on the outside world is production assistant Drew Austin. Thanks Our prison artist logo and brand designer is John Zito and Little Big Brands. Check them out at www.littlebigbrands.com. Follow us on Instagram at Prison Break Podcast. Email us at prison breaking@caliber-studio.com and call us at four oh one three B-R-E-A-K present.

Breaking with Sarah and Paul has been a caliber studio production. Thank you for listening.