0:00 Greetings. 0:02 Thank you for clicking on the play button. 0:04 My name is Christian Payne and you are listening to the Documentally podcast. 0:11 Back in 2016 I had a dream about Wilf Lunn. 0:17 It was in colour and involved fire and laughing, much like the TV shows I remember seeing him on during my early childhood. 0:27 When I woke I had this huge smile on my face and I've no idea what triggered the dream maybe I caught a passing glimpse of him on a blog post or something anyway I was immediately off down a rabbit hole checking out this madcap inventor and his old TV shows where he did things that you probably wouldn't be able to do right now like well mostly blowing things up 0:52 I absolutely loved it. 1:11 So after spending a bit of time googling his past endeavours Wikipedia told me that he might still be alive but the email addresses on his website didn't work so I contacted the webmaster who kindly gave me an email address and so I emailed Wilf Lunn. 1:30 This is what I wrote at the time. 1:33 Greetings. 1:35 I'm not sure if this email makes it directly to Wilf, but I hope so. 1:40 I'm picturing it being automatically printed out at the other end, then carried by a small trained animal through a series of tubes down to a laboratory where Wilf, dressed in protective gear, is currently tinkering with an unfinished project. 1:55 And now if my words are in your hands, I'll not waste any more of your time. 2:01 Dear Wilf, I hope you are well. 2:04 I just wanted to say I was so happy to find some old videos of yours on YouTube. 2:09 I was transported back to my childhood and so many inspirational moments. 2:15 Thank you for that. 2:35 Kindest Regards, Christian 2:59 Anyway, much to my amazement, he responded. 3:03 He told me he wasn't really keen on interviews after one interview was posted in a place that he hadn't expected. 3:09 I think he said it ended up on a bondage magazine or something like that. 3:13 They called him the weirdest man on earth. 3:15 I don't remember it exactly right, but something along those lines. 3:19 I told him that I was happy to drive to Huddersfield to meet him and then he could decide if he wanted to chat and he was surprised enough to say, yeah, okay then. 3:29 So a few days later, I drove two and a half hours north to meet one of my childhood heroes. 3:36 Wilf was as inspired and inspiring as I remember. 3:41 I was invited into his home with open arms and treated to a ploughman's lunch made by his wife, Liz. 3:46 She told me that you could not stifle Wilf's creative output. 3:51 It's everywhere. 3:52 She said she had a small area on the wall for family portraits and seemed content with that. 3:59 We sat and ate surrounded by this eclectic mix of curiosities and inventions. 4:05 It was an overwhelming experience just being there let alone getting to chat with him on mic. 4:12 Documentally titled Knickknackatarian 4:32 More so when Wilf gave you its backstory. 4:35 Out of context some things might shock, disturb or perhaps even offend. 4:41 Morris dancers and Nazis get the full brunt of Wilf's artistic wrath. 4:47 Sometimes mashed together in sculpture. 4:52 The interior of Wilf's house looked a little like his mind had just been turned inside out. 4:58 The resulting explosion spewing his art and curation onto every available surface. 5:04 And this was just his living room. 5:06 He also had a storage facility somewhere else. 5:09 Some of the things in the room I kept a safe distance from and you'll understand why when you listen to the audio. 5:15 But I also sensed a little frustration in Wilf and I can understand it now. 5:22 There is surprisingly little of him online for someone who was on our screens for three decades. 5:29 For all he makes, draws, writes and creates he found it hard to share it with others, to create an archive online, especially after his webmaster emigrated, his site sat mostly in stasis. 5:43 I was with Will for about five hours and the following audio is just this one sitting where we could sit down and hit record. 5:51 Afterwards my head was spinning. 5:55 Wilf may have been all grown up, but his childlike curiosity burned as intensely as always. 6:03 As I left him, he gifted me this pile of books, many unpublished. 6:07 I tried to tell him how much I appreciated his work over the years, and he looked a little uncomfortable momentarily, shy as he brushed off my praise. 6:18 Anyway, generous, funny, prolific in his creativity and incredibly modest. 6:25 I'll leave you with his words and what could well be Wilf Lund's last interview. 6:31 I never used to think it was a good idea to meet your heroes but if they are anything like Wilf Lund you really must. 6:43 Testing Testing 6:46 I've got to get comfortable because I might be sat here for a bit. 6:48 Okay. 6:50 I'm sat with Wilf Lund, inventor, writer. 6:57 What's the other thing you do? 6:59 Oh, I'm a Knickknackatarian to the Clutterati, which is what I'm specialising in today, mainly with medical items from after 1948 when the National Health Service came in and saved my life. 7:17 for Documentally featuring Documentally featuring 7:39 Thank you for watching. 7:53 So back in the day I was I'd come home from school and there'd be a few programs I'd really be keen to watch and they seemed to be programs that didn't necessarily have your normal structure they were kind of sometimes eclectic and experimental Well the thing about the things I did was that I was never really told what to do they used to have a theme 8:19 for Vision On every year you know I mean I would suggest themes which would get thrown out I mean one year I suggested a theme of all smoking rubber bands but they weren't keen on that or going to you know to the south of France to film there they weren't keen on that and they just had the theme might be sand it might be uh 8:42 Why would you be messing with explosives when you were always so hairy? 9:05 Well, the thing about the explosive business was that I was a friend of Edward Greenosh, who many of you won't know, invented the white DDT smoke from which he made himself a millionaire during the Second World War. 9:19 The white what, sorry? 9:20 DDT smoke. 9:22 You know, they have trouble when they decide on which person's going to be the Pope, whether it's black or white. 9:29 Well, he discovered the white DDT smoke. 9:33 I don't think the Pope used it, but he ran a firework factory called Standard Fireworks, and he used to supply me with gunpowder and various bits and pieces. 9:47 He never bothered... 9:48 about regulations and stuff. 9:50 I mean, occasionally it got a bit out of hand. 9:54 I once had to do a little explosion on a programme involving a cuckoo clock where I'd replace the cuckoo with a bear walking the platform and a cannon. 10:10 And he provided me with these little explosives he'd made and he said they... 10:17 I've given you six to use he said but if you need any more there are 12 shillings and six months each which was a lot of money then and I thought well I'll just try one before I go down to Bristol and I put one on the dining table connected it up to the battery and 10:34 And this effect was just like a jet aircraft going off. 10:39 The flames shot out. 10:40 They hit the ceiling, melting some of the polished tyrene tiles. 10:45 They were absolutely vicious because I couldn't use them. 10:49 I put something else in like a little bit of gunpowder, you know. 10:54 But he was the one who got me into pyrotechnics because it was so easy for me because I just asked him and he would provide me with it. 11:03 with various things the fuses and stuff like that but as life went on it became more and more difficult you know um getting various types of explosives but i became known for 11:17 for doing these explosions and some of them were quite unpleasant. 11:28 I had one where it was a warning fly-all zip that warned you when it was down in case you weren't dressed properly. 11:39 And that contained what I thought was a small explosion. 11:43 So I wore an American rugby player's jock strap with extra shoulder padding that they use in the game. 11:53 And when I detonated it, it lifted me off my feet. 11:57 You know, and the producer, Patrick Downall at the time, came rushing, burnt my underpants as well. 12:04 I've still got the jock strap. 12:05 And he came down and he was furious. 12:10 I said, what's the problem? 12:11 He said, it should be two explosions. 12:15 Bang, bang. 12:18 I said, yeah, but the other explosion's on the table. 12:22 He said, well, so what's the problem? 12:23 I said, well, 12:24 When you say bang bang, I press the detonator that explodes a trowel explosion which blows me away from the table. 12:35 So I then have to come back to the table to press the other one. 12:38 That's why it's bang bang and not bang bang. 12:42 Anyway, they ended up with a guy under the table with his finger on top. 12:45 So when he heard the first bang, his finger pressed it and that went off as well. 12:50 And your crotch could take this? 12:55 Well I ended up with something that looked a bit like an egg timer for a while but you know I survived that one I've had others where I had an exploding chrysanthemum that blew a hole in my chest when I was opening a 13:14 A nursery, not a children's nursery. 13:17 And the crowd applauded. 13:20 They thought all the blood pouring out of my chest was part of the special effect. 13:24 I thought, well, you know, that's good. 13:26 I'll have to try and bring it in, fake it, you know, not actually blow my chest up every time. 13:31 But the worst one, of course, well, not the worst one, but was one when I was carrying my exploding top hat. 13:39 which fired out the top and it had a long tassel which had the detonator at the bottom and because I was carrying it the tassel hit the top step in my flat and it fired and it burnt all the hair off the right hand side of my face and my moustache had gone and I had a freezer there at that side 14:02 and at the time I was doing a national television show and of course I couldn't appear like that so what they did was they used to cut hair off the back of my head and glue it on my face so I looked normal but the trouble was every time I had a drink one half of my moustache fell off and you've had a moustache pretty much from the moment you could grow one 14:24 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 14:26 I was always embarrassed by my Cupid's lips, you know, and the overwhelming desire that when I was young, old ladies had this overwhelming desire to kiss me. 14:41 and I've been against kissing ever since so much so that one year I designed a Christmas card that could be used as an anti-kissing mask and I was pleased to hear that later that the French were thinking of banning kissing yeah it's true yeah they were banning especially in schools because it was spreading things around you know the cheek kissing 15:07 Yeah, that's right. 15:09 I'd never understand why you should do that. 15:14 You were brought up in a cellar, is that right? 15:17 I only know that because of the front cover of your biography. 15:20 We call them cellars, but if you lived in London, we used to call them garden flats, which were actually half underground. 15:27 Funnily enough, 15:29 where you're sitting now is half underground because i'm down the side of the hill it was a very damp place um but very damp i mean yeah everything wallpaper was stained there were mysterious hooks in one corner that i think was probably hanging black market meat on um with a cooker 15:55 and in the back part which was totally underground it was under the front garden and above the cooker there was a chimney which is since gone 16:05 And people used to drop things down, you know, bits and pieces, frogs that they caught, which would fall in our frying pan. 16:14 And we had a gas light in that room and a gas light in the room above, but no other lighting but candles. 16:28 What year was this? 16:31 From 42 on. 16:36 Do you have vivid memories of the war? 16:40 No. 16:43 The only memories I have of the war is the fact that I had a gas mask and my sister was in one that looked like an haversack that you pumped and I also had my own identity card and the thing about the gas mask was it was a red one with a raspberry nose that went 17:05 as you breathe, you know. 17:07 And all the kids, the school I was at, all the kids, at the orphanage, when they had to wear them, they had to wear them to go to bed in, which I assumed was just to stop them talking. 17:19 But apparently, the idea of the was that if the mass wasn't going, they knew you were dead. 17:29 Just a quick medical thing that they might not be aware of. 17:32 That's amazing. 17:33 Yeah. 17:35 Your fascination with, can I say, medical paraphernalia? 17:42 Well, yes, you could say that, yeah. 17:44 It sounds derogatory, because it's absolutely fascinating. 17:47 You've got some stuff here I never knew existed, let alone stuff I'm amazed you've managed to get hold of. 17:53 And I think your eBay purchasing has got you in trouble in the past. 17:56 I don't know if stopping the channel tunnel with one of your purchases is... Can you share that? 18:03 Well, the thing was, I'm collecting all this stuff that's from, you know, sort of after 1948. 18:09 There's odd things that are before. 18:11 But things that were very in during that time. 18:18 And one of the things that was in was radioactive stuff. 18:22 I mean, there was all kinds of radioactive things about and they were supposed to be good for your health. 18:28 And 18:30 I got an email from a friend of mine in Scotland where I have a website and he said I hope this is a joke and it was an email from a radioactive squad saying that they'd had to go to France 18:53 because the the this um truck I mean stopped at the tunnel because it was carrying radioactive uranium which appeared to be one of the objects I'd just bought it was a radium emanator and 19:13 The guy 19:32 You can still buy these things. 19:34 The idea was that people used to drink a glass a day to help them with their health, to make them feel better. 19:44 And they actually thought it was a bit unwise when one of the guys who drank a glass a day's jaw fell off. 19:51 And 19:52 They thought, well, perhaps it's not a good idea. 19:55 So they stopped selling them. 19:57 Well, apart from this one I got on eBay. 20:02 But you can still buy them. 20:03 They still come up. 20:04 But I think they've had their uranium removed. 20:07 I mean, I wouldn't have minded them. 20:09 Removing the uranium but the customs pinched it. 20:14 You know, I got my money back. 20:16 The guy tried to imply that I knew all the time that it had the uranium in it. 20:22 Of course, I assumed that it had been taken out. 20:25 I mean, but obviously not. 20:28 Do you have to check stuff in your collection now? 20:32 I notice you've got a pretty impressive collection of Geiger counters. 20:36 Well, that's just in case. 20:39 I've I wanted to have the classic Geiger counter the one that you see there are ones around now that you know very modern things but I wanted the type we used to see in the films you know where they 20:52 You used to walk around with the pointer and it going click, click, click, click, click. 20:56 I wanted something like that so that when I give my talk on uranium and uranium glass, that I have something that actually ticks. 21:06 And in America, these are quite available, these Geiger counters. 21:11 But the cheapest ones which you can buy, which I call the Doomsday Machine, they call it a Geiger counter. 21:21 but the thing about it is that if you do if it does start registering 21:26 that you've got radiation, you're dead. 21:29 Because it only works if you, you know, like if you stood next to Chernobyl or somewhere like that. 21:34 I wondered one that had told me about the radiation in granite or in fiesta ware. 21:41 There's some pottery from France in fiesta ware. 21:44 But the one that's of interest to me is locally there's a glass firm that used to make the Lily Crap razor blade sharpener. 21:55 Now the thing about that I'm interested in that is that during the war of course you couldn't get razor blades so you needed something to horn them and the Lilycrap razor blade horn comes from my glasswork would you believe in Barnsley and it's actually radioactive so I've got one of those I've got radioactive eye baths and the silliest one of all is I've got a small 22:24 radioactive uranium glass bubble gum holder from America and a baby's feeding bottle all radioactive only very slightly but still radioactive where did your fascination come from from all is this something you've been doing all of your life or what triggered this fascination with collecting these very strange in some cases dangerous objedar well the fear of death 22:52 You know, we were, my family, what we call, we weren't, we were valetorinarians, which means that we weren't, you know, we weren't hypochondriacs. 23:06 We were valetorinarians. 23:08 In fact, we lived in dread of death. 23:12 So we would do anything to avoid death. 23:16 We wouldn't put anybody else's clothes on in case we caught something off them. 23:21 We would avoid putting hats on in case we caught lice or fleas. 23:25 We would go to the swimming baths because we didn't have a bath. 23:30 I used to get washed in the bath. 23:32 It was very popular, the baths, because it was a kind of sheep dip for the poor. 23:37 You're going and, you know, you have to wear a little rubber hat to stop things which are likely to be living on your hair floating off or brill cream causing an oil slick. 23:50 Or even the cold would help to kill things because you're only allowed so long in the baths. 23:57 and the guy who walked around it with like a dip thing like a scoop on the end of a stick which he used to scoop off plasters that had come off people and the larger scabs he would watch out to see what shade of blue you were and when you were the right shade of blue he would make you come out so it was all those things and I think really the main one was the fact that 24:25 When my mother sent a note to school saying I got yellow fever, it caused one hell of a panic and the doctor came and I was put to bed, a life of luxury for me, and I didn't have to go to the outside loo, I could use my grandmother's best posing pole which was under the bed. 24:45 and I more or less lived on oranges and the doctor prescribed this sort of reddish liquid which I had to drink with a straw now straws were very posh you only saw them at school and I once pinched one and took it home and tried to drink my tea with it and it melted 25:04 so i am i had to drink this stuff with a straw now i kept asking pharmacists what it was and none of them none of them knew and eventually i think i did something on the net and somebody said it was parishes chemical food which was this reddish liquid which was made for sickly and alien children like myself and it had to be drunk with the straw because it turned your teeth black 25:31 So I thought, well, great, I've now found what it is. 25:33 I had a heck of a job finding an old label. 25:38 I think the first one I found was in Australia for Parrish's chemical food. 25:43 It was basically made out of iron filings and it was a tonic. 25:48 And then, surprisingly, I found that there was a firm still selling it. 25:53 Not to children? 25:54 No, not to children. 25:55 It was a veterinary firm that was selling it 25:59 as a tonic for pigeons. 26:04 And it actually says on it that you're not to give it to children. 26:07 Anyway, this is a tonic for racing pigeons. 26:10 So I've got a bottle of that. 26:13 And how did you get yellow fever at school? 26:17 I didn't get yellow fever, did I? 26:20 No, it was because I'd gone yellow. 26:21 My mother said it was yellow fever. 26:24 I mean, it could have been from eating carrots, but I... 26:28 It was jaundice, you know, which is dodgy. 26:31 Funny enough, I've just read today that there's a baby in a bed with jaundice and they've got it surrounded by UV lights. 26:40 which seems to help. 26:41 So I've been thinking about, well, I'm Dan Jonas, you know what I'm saying? 26:47 Just in case. 26:47 Just in case, you know. 26:49 How is your health? 26:54 It's called better safe than sorry. 26:57 Fortunately, I suffer from, I mean, my main problem was I once accidentally drank out of a kid's milk bottle at school. 27:07 with a straw which made it worse because whoever it was the lips had touched it and I was convinced like Queequeg that I would die and I've been waiting ever since and I um 27:22 I mean, when I had to do some tests for something that had no symptoms, I thought it's what I caught off that kid with that damn straw. 27:31 So my health, in some ways, I'm fortunate. 27:38 I suffer from what they call migraine saundalore. 27:44 which means migraine without the pain or the depression I just get the visual images and the other thing I suffered from at Christmas was a silent heart attack I didn't even know I had it and I must have had others in the past how does that 28:11 I have no idea. 28:12 How did you know you had it? 28:14 Well, I happened to be ringing the doctor at the time and talking about some drugs I was on and I was saying that I tried to stop taking the nitro and my actual angina attack had gone on for an hour. 28:30 So he said, ring for an ambulance now. 28:32 So I went to hospital 28:34 and they have to wait 24 hours to give you a test I was in 5 days which tell you that you've had a heart attack although I didn't think I had a heart attack and I've apparently had 2 heart attacks in my life and neither one of them I've ever noticed those are the best heart attacks I assume that one day I'll have one of these silent heart attacks and I'll wake up dead without any anguish 29:04 Have you made preparations? 29:06 Because you have. 29:08 Oh, of course I have. 29:09 I've got three tombstones already. 29:11 You haven't. 29:12 It was buy two, get one free. 29:15 It's not a joke. 29:16 It's true. 29:17 I've got three tombstones. 29:20 How many bodies do you have? 29:22 Well, I've just got one. 29:22 I don't think they let me put any of them up. 29:26 Why are they... Did you modify them? 29:29 No, I had them made, the proper tombstones. 29:33 No, I've got... I don't think it would be suitable. 29:44 Can I see them afterwards though? 29:45 Well, you can see two of them. 29:47 Okay. 29:49 for Documentally featuring Documentally featuring 30:07 um oh yes that one says beware of people on the other side yeah I remember that uh that's about I've thought of that when I I used to see these religious people shouting in the street I thought oh god if I go I don't want to go with them um what was the other one oh it was yeah I was going to put end of part one I didn't do that one do you believe in an afterlife uh 30:37 No. 30:38 It's just going to be a very long commercial break. 30:42 Gosh, I will be surprised. 30:44 Yeah. 30:46 So you have said actually in another interview that you're atheist, which almost sounds like a religion in itself when people say you are atheist. 30:56 Well, I'm more than an atheist, aren't I? 31:00 I'm a militant atheist. 31:02 So it is like a religion. 31:03 Well, you know, the thing about it is that I spent a lot of time 31:08 Creating objects, spoof objects, spoof religious objects. 31:13 And I found that my knowledge of the Bible, which isn't great, is a damn sight greater than most people's. 31:23 And if I make a joke, which I think is a good joke, I'm wasting my time because nobody reads the Bible, do they? 31:31 I mean, I've done a beautiful salt cellar. 31:35 with Lot holding a fish ready to be salted. 31:39 And his wife, he's the pepper, and his wife is Edith, by the way, she was called, is the salt. 31:49 And she's a little pillar of salt with two little boobies, and the salt comes out of the boobies. 31:55 When you say, oh, it's Noah's wife's salt cellar, people, so... 32:00 Yeah, you have to explain it. 32:01 I've got a light switch over there. 32:04 It says on it, and he's hanging from a cord because he hung himself. 32:09 And the caption that goes under it is Judas turned on the light. 32:15 Which has two meanings, you see. 32:16 Turned on the light, which was Jesus. 32:22 And he also turned on the light, which is Christianity. 32:25 Because without him, it wouldn't exist. 32:29 The story would have gone. 32:30 I've also done him with ginger air. 32:33 Because for some reason, he's always portrayed with ginger air. 32:37 And I was ginger aired. 32:39 You've done your research, then. 32:42 Oh, oh yes, oh yes. 32:44 I've got the original clippings. 32:48 You were going to put end of part one. 32:50 Would they be your last words as such? 32:53 Well, it would be, wouldn't it? 32:58 I've done Beware of People on the Other Side. 33:02 Beware of the People on the Other Side, it actually isn't just lettering, it's actually carvings of the various religions you've got to watch out for. 33:15 So where would you be buried then? 33:17 Well, I've always... When... 33:23 When my mother and father died, they died within a week of each other and I actually thought my mother had died after my dad to get out of pain for the funeral because she was always a bit tight and we had a double funeral and of course the family grave has got my grandad in it and my grandma 33:44 and my dad for some reason I asked to go in it because he was first he had first dibs he's in there as well and because we came down walked down the street with two horses and all the people came out you know and one went left you know it was you know it had the guy with the top hat on and you know and the walking stick you know the traditional 34:08 and one went left and one went right and the one that went right went went to the crematorium and the one that went left was with me dad went to the went to the cemetery which is a very nice cemetery and because we couldn't fit you know we couldn't fit my mother in 34:28 So we had to have her reduced to fit her in and we went up I think a couple of days later when she'd cooled down and stuck her in. 34:42 So I'll probably be sprinkled. 34:44 You're going to be sprinkled? 34:45 I might be sprinkled, yeah. 34:46 Is that because there's likely to be an explosion that precedes your death? 34:51 I thought about loading myself up with nitro before I go, you know. 34:57 Because our local crematorium has blown up once. 35:03 How did that happen? 35:05 I think they left the gas on. 35:09 That's just unbelievable. 35:11 Well, you'll notice it's a bit flatter than it used to be. 35:19 Lack of a chimney. 35:20 I don't like the place anyway. 35:22 I just don't like it. 35:28 Crematorium. 35:29 Not a statement on life. 35:32 I knew the architect who built it. 35:34 They're better in there as well. 35:38 They've got a nasty sort of 50ish look, haven't they? 35:42 Yeah. 35:45 I didn't have to go through any of that because I went for the green burials which are very hands on where you're not allowed to head to them 36:15 Yeah, I had a wicker basket from my granddad and then a pine kind of totally unstained, un-anything, very rot-awayable box from my mum. 36:25 I thought it would be nice to be put into a maroon and fired. 36:30 Old Edward, that I talked about earlier, he had Chinese fireworks. 36:35 When you're fired, the released paper... 36:40 balloons I mean big ones of Santa Claus and stuff and at one time I thought that'd be a great idea for when you die to entertain the kids fire these maroons in the sky and these you could do it in daylight and these paper balloons because he had he said there were ones he could fire them and you could get an entire zoo in the sky you know camels zebras all paper balloons coming down I thought that would look wonderful but they wouldn't let you do it would they 37:07 You know, in case one fell in front of a windscreen or a car or... Because it'd be so easy to do now with polythene bags, wouldn't it? 37:14 But if you signed all the paperwork, who are they going to come to and tell off? 37:18 Well, they'd find something, I suppose. 37:22 Hunter S. Thompson was fired in a cannon. 37:25 The author. 37:26 He had his ashes fired in a massive cannon. 37:30 But did it explode? 37:32 with you in 37:56 No, not with you. 37:58 You've lost... I've lost them. 38:00 You need to draw a diagram. 38:01 You've seen these paper balloons that have little flames on. 38:04 You can fire them up with weights shaped like people and they come down. 38:09 They can be like a paper shaker for your grandad floating down as a paper balloon. 38:14 That would be amazing. 38:15 Yeah, I thought that would be it. 38:17 But you see, they've gone against those Chinese balloons, you know. 38:22 I think you can get them now which don't have wiring. 38:25 They're made with rigid fibres. 38:28 I mean, I remember years ago, a friend of mine, Martin Bell, he was sending them up. 38:33 He ended up on television because one of them landed on the benzene plant at ICI. 38:38 When we were he was experimenting 39:08 We had this row about coal gas, because I said it wouldn't float a balloon, right? 39:18 And he said it would. 39:20 So he went to Remploy, who made mattresses, right? 39:25 And they covered them in huge polythene bags. 39:28 So we got one of these. 39:30 This is when I was a student. 39:31 And we went into the back of the posture where there's a gas tap. 39:34 and it was a tiny room and we connected it up to the gas tap and turned it on and it's slowly and I'm thinking how are we going to get it out of the room you know if it's yeah because it's filling up and at that moment when it wasn't completely filled Pop Shaw John the Burbitt Shaw walked in with his pipe and he says what are you doing lad and then when he saw he ran away 40:02 Anyway, we managed to get it out and it was very disappointing. 40:06 We just threw a flame at it. 40:07 It just went poof. 40:10 And it didn't float. 40:12 Well, actually, I found out later that it wouldn't have floated, but there is a way of doing it which involves 40:25 a two-way valve where you and a football in the tube which most people are familiar with were you allowed to play around with with these kind of experiments when you're a kid because both of your parents were deaf weren't they yeah yeah well they never heard a thing I had a terrible accident in the cellar once I got home one night and uh they were deaf before you started doing accidents 40:49 Oh yeah, yeah, I didn't make them deaf. 40:51 My father went deaf with measles. 40:52 That's why I'm a great believer in... You see, the thing about, you know, you talk about my collection and the National Oil Service and fear of illness. 41:02 My family would not have any vaccinations or anything to do. 41:11 It's amazing how I lived. 41:14 You know, I mean, you know, they... 41:21 I don't know why I'm waffling on about this but I used to do various experiments with match heads I stopped a football match once I was coming home and the whole street was blocked off 41:44 because what happened was I'd been down you could buy things then you could go and buy sulfuric acid nitric acid and I used to do a little experiment and chuck them out the cellar window what I hadn't realised was that the galvanised pipe that was coming by the side of the window was a gas pipe and the acid burnt a big hole through it so they had to evacuate the street they never found out it was me they thought it was just normal rot and 42:12 I bought a chemistry set for my kid recently and all the exciting stuff was missing. 42:16 I probably should bring it around to yours to restock. 42:18 Yeah, there was never anything really exciting in them. 42:23 I always wondered what the log wood chips were for. 42:29 Yeah, we don't have those. 42:30 We do have magnesium. 42:34 What? 42:35 A little magnesium ribbon, I think, is still in there. 42:38 Oh, I'm amazed. 42:39 You can buy it on eBay. 42:41 Oh, okay. 42:41 Thanks very much. 42:42 You'll have to send me some links later. 42:44 Yeah, yeah. 42:46 It's... Funnily enough, you know, you were talking about that and I was talking about that explosion. 42:56 Both of them were caused by magnesium. 42:59 because as a powder they use it as flash powder I don't use it at all now I only use nitrile and which as far as I'm concerned is very very safe but magnesium when it goes off gives out sufficient heat to melt iron so you can imagine what it does to your skin and so you haven't lit it yet have you no no I'm now thinking not to 43:28 Well, no, it won't make any difference. 43:30 It'll burn brightly. 43:31 But I mean, you've got to do it in something, either tongs or in a bowl, not a pot bowl. 43:39 Petri dish, metal petri dish. 43:41 Actually, if it's burning, yeah. 43:43 I'll go outside. 43:44 How much have you got? 43:45 Just a little strip. 43:47 I'm surprised. 43:47 I am surprised. 43:49 Maybe it's my imagination, like, because we've only gone to, like, less than one to six in about 30, so... What's it got in it? 43:56 Oh, your normal potassium permanganates and your... Oh, yeah, well, that's one of the things I've got a lot of, because they used to give that for kids with measles, you know, because it stopped the itching, pot permanganate, and you could stain floors with it, and I used to stain sheets of paper with it and then paint 44:18 with lemon juice because it acted like a bleach, you know. 44:23 Chemistry is really fascinating. 44:25 Were you good at chemistry at school? 44:27 Yeah. 44:29 If you didn't go into TV, what would you have done? 44:34 Well, I didn't go into TV. 44:35 I just wandered. 44:36 You know, I never intended to go into TV. 44:40 I don't really know. 44:41 I mean, I wasn't really suited to teaching, but I did a lot of that. 44:48 I was quite happy getting up doing things live but you know often in teaching you end up I mean when I taught I did everything the only thing I didn't teach was music because I can't you know but you know in the early days you get into teaching and you were expected to do everything 45:16 and you might end up with a class of 80 kids. 45:21 It's unheard of now. 45:22 I mean, 40 is unheard of, isn't it? 45:27 That was a long time ago. 45:32 But I had thought at one time that if I did go again, I might actually go into maths or something like that. 45:43 You know, it's... 45:46 You see the thing is about the art world is it's all a matter of opinion with sums it isn't it's either right or it's wrong and it's all a matter of opinion and people I used to have big arguments about it you know we know what art is you don't know what art is because it changes you wouldn't have thought that somebody painting with elephant shit would have 46:13 you know would anybody take it as a set as a reasonable thing to do or some of Damien Hirst's stuff you know um which you know basically a museum show of a shark you know i mean you know it's 46:32 No, it's... 47:02 When I was at Bucket College, I used to worry about running out of ideas. 47:09 Now I worry about getting them finished. 47:13 And I worry about 47:16 Other things coming up. 47:18 Well, I've got to do it and I'm not stuck with anything. 47:23 You're prolific. 47:26 We're surrounded by cases and cabinets with some amazing... This is here. 47:31 Yeah. 47:33 This is your house. 47:34 Yeah. 47:36 But I've got a lot of the exhibits over in Merfield, you know. 47:44 Is there anything you've created and made and you just thought, wow, if I only ever did this one thing, I'd be happy? 47:53 Well, I quite like the cycle. 47:57 You see, what got me going was I started off as the first person to put a cycle in a bottle. 48:07 I was very reluctant to exhibit but it was James Mason who got me an agent and he was the one who pushed me into having an exhibition 48:26 and that's what I needed because all I'll do is sit at home all the time just making things and making things because the selling and the promoting which is what the art world has become is something I just can't do I can't I mean I've watched people talking about their own work and 48:55 and you know boosting and I can't do that I just can't do it I need people to tell me they think it's okay not me to tell them you know and that's one of the things why I've always thought that the cycles were good because they people appreciated them on different levels a child would appreciate them because he knows what it is it's a cycle or a bicycle 49:23 Somebody who's into surrealism and art would appreciate them for that. 49:27 And somebody else would appreciate them for being very well-made models. 49:32 So, you know, to me, it worked all ways round, you know, and I was quite happy about it. 49:38 I mean, my stuff about the Second World War and the Corralado Beatles, you know, I... 49:52 You know, it's things that have been forgotten. 49:55 Like the fact that we were going to do, we were going to bomb with Coralado, I can't even say it. 50:01 Yes, we were. 50:03 We were actually going to bomb with Anthrax if the war hadn't finished and that would be it, wouldn't it? 50:08 They still wouldn't be able to live in Germany now. 50:11 But Coralado beetles, yeah, and it had been done before because obviously the crop goes and people starve. 50:21 and we and it's amazing at the time when I was at school every post office every police station every school had a poster up warning about Colorado Beatles and saying that you had to go out if you found them you had to take them in I never found one I looked all the time but they were that dreaded and they were going to drop them on Germany 50:48 to eat the potato crop that's why and the stuff I told you about Oberleutnant Pretorius who was a traditional taught traditional dancing to the 51:01 SS. 51:01 It's quite, it's true. 51:03 Did you know? 51:04 No, no. 51:06 Morris dancing. 51:07 Yeah. 51:08 Well, traditional dancing. 51:10 I don't speak specifically Morris dancing. 51:15 It's just I specifically hate Morris dancing. 51:17 It's your artwork around that. 51:19 The only thing I like about them is the fact that they do like the lepers did and the ring bells. 51:24 So you know they come in. 51:27 I think it's to do with the fact that you know coughs and sneezes spread diseases and we just did not with our handkerchiefs around So your teetotal now you say did you used to drink? 51:47 There's a history there I don't know about Yeah I used to drink It was one of the symptoms that stopped me dying 51:59 I had a lot of people, well, I've written about it. 52:04 Is this in the book My Best Seller? 52:08 No, I don't think it is. 52:10 That was a mistake as well, calling it that. 52:12 They all think it's a book about wine. 52:15 Yeah. 52:16 I was going to call it The Silent Snot Dancer. 52:19 That's pretty good. 52:20 After the kid at school who used to do the snot dance. 52:25 Explain. 52:25 Well, 52:27 If you're deaf, I'll give you another example. 52:30 My mother was sat there one day and she was watching polo on the telly. 52:37 And what she sees is a lot of women in headscarves and horses galloping up and down, galloping up and down, galloping up and down. 52:45 And all of a sudden, they all stop. 52:49 And the horses go off the field and all the women in headscarves all walk on the field, looking down, pressing down. 52:56 So what he used to do was he used to go out in the yard 53:24 silently and and he used to dance um like a ballet but all the time picking his nose he would pick his nose and hold it up and then flick it you know and he would that's what he'd do and i it was a snot dance but it was completely silent and it's what he saw he realized you know it's like my father 53:51 The only thing my father really enjoyed was wrestling because it was straightforward you know I mean that's one of the things that stuck me in a way is that I watch telly and I think there's too much talking you know and the joke is on the radio there's too many pictures how can you do a radio program about antiques 54:19 that you can't see. 54:20 You know, television programs where you're just talking about something that isn't there. 54:28 You know, if you're a deaf person, it's just crazy. 54:31 I mean, because they have subtitles now, which we now have started watching. 54:37 So with you being on TV with a strong northern accent, it kind of helped being on something like Vision On, which was mostly visual and not much dialogue. 54:47 Were you allowed to speak much? 54:49 I don't want to speak at all. 54:50 I mean, we used to stand there and Tony would say to me, and what have we got today, Wilf? 54:59 And I'd say, overkill duck punt. 55:02 Overkill duck punt. 55:03 He was timid. 55:05 And, but the only time I ever got to speak was when they gave me the line. 55:11 And now I still can't, I can't do it. 55:14 And now here, here, here, 55:18 is the gallery and it's the here and the and the is so it usually will come out and now here his gallery how would you say it naturally like that and now here is yeah I would I would I can't you know you forget that I was brought up you know it's absolutely ingrained I mean I used to have my mickey taken out of me at school 55:44 Remember, I live in a house where nobody speaks, you know. 55:51 Yeah, so was your language slow to develop? 55:54 Well, yeah, it still hasn't developed, has it? 55:59 As you can tell. 56:01 Well, I triggered you to say Colorado. 56:04 Oh, I said it right then, but we've just been saying the... I don't even want to say it because I'll never be able to say Colorado again. 56:10 I'm... 56:12 I was going to, we were going to try and, we saw a picture that the guys from America sent us a video there, a thing about a young lad, and Ian up in Scotland was saying we ought to do one, and we were going to call it The Coralado Kid, and it would be about my search for the Coralado Beetle. 56:33 But you want to look it up. 56:36 Because there's a lot of cartoons about them. 56:41 There's lots of things. 56:43 You know, you find that things that you think, this is what I'm saying about the religious stuff, it's things I think everybody knows. 56:54 They don't. 56:56 And, you know, like the Bible. 56:59 And there's other things, you know, like, for example, Spanish Fly. 57:06 I mean when I was a lad Spanish Fly was the Nirvana of Viagra which we didn't have then and everybody would talk about it or it did and all this and that it would arouse people to actual sexual frenzy but nobody ever saw any and now it's for sale on eBay but it's not Spanish Fly is it because it's illegal but haven't you got a massive jar of it I've got a massive jar of it yeah 57:36 It's like a big sweetie jar. 57:39 Yes, it's actually an irritant. 57:43 So were you meant to eat it or rub it on? 57:49 Because if it's an irritant, I can see. 57:53 It depends on what it says on the thing. 57:55 Some of them... 57:58 P means polarised and PV means rub it on your vagina you know and there's various other P's and this that and the other depending on what it is mine's unpolarised mine are the proper beetles which I think are as rare as N's teeth I mean I've never come across any and I think the guy must have not made a mistake sending them to me because the actual bottle without the beetles is worth a lot of money 58:27 that the label had dropped off. 58:29 He had it stuck on the bottom, smashed up. 58:31 So he obviously thought I was just buying the bottle. 58:35 But I wasn't. 58:35 I was buying the Beatles. 58:37 You could do a book just on some of the incredible purchases you've managed to make. 58:41 How did you manage before eBay? 58:44 Well, I just kept looking all the time. 58:48 It's like when I was a lad, I got a consuming interest in geology. 58:55 Now when you live with parents like mine, you don't have a car and you don't go anywhere. 59:01 So you've got to find places where you can get things that come from all over the place. 59:08 So in my geology collection, all I did, I used to walk down the railway tracks because you used to fetch the ballast from all over the country and tip it there. 59:18 And I used to go and look and find all sorts of things, you know. 59:26 I'm not making a cry. 59:27 No, it's alright. 59:27 No, no, I've got something in my eye. 59:28 I was just turning my phone off because I also forgot. 59:32 We were just talking about Spanish fly and I got an irritant and I'm wondering now if I'm going to have an erect eyeball. 59:38 As long as you have. 59:41 I once went with something wrong with my nose and he gave me bromide. 59:47 I went to the chemist and said, what do you think, I've got a nasal erection. 59:51 He actually gave you bromide? 59:52 Yes. 59:53 He probably got some of that somewhere. 59:54 Yeah, they just don't, you know. 59:56 Mind you, he was nearly dead. 59:57 He had to tie it with one finger. 59:59 In fact, one bloke went to him because his wife was ill. 60:02 And he said, well, I can't, I can't yet. 60:03 And he said, I'll carry you. 60:05 He was that bad. 60:06 Carry Dr. Kyle through his... Yeah. 60:09 No, that's not a good sign, is it? 60:10 If you can't look after yourself. 60:13 So, of all of your... 60:17 Exhibits, all of your artistic exhibits, are they all around a similar theme? 60:24 Could they all be housed together or are they broken into separate themes? 60:28 Well, there's a lot of religious stuff. 60:34 and political stuff like my prisoner's flag of America with barbed wire instead of stars and in the grey and white prison stripes and there's please God bless America because they seem to be moving into all the places and of course yeah that's one sort of area then there's the medical area 60:59 What's a Larkler? 61:24 explain it don't point to it a lark lure originally they mostly come from France and it's like usually a piece a block of wood with mirrors stuck on it and a string this is a simple one you pull the string and it spins round and it flashes and all the larks come flying down all birds and you shoot them 61:45 I built a huge one for that. 61:48 It was on Down Your Way, the largest lark lure. 61:52 And it was in a pub in Newcastle. 61:56 It was a giant thing with, you know, flashing balls and all that. 62:03 That's what a lark lure is. 62:04 But I've got another one in there which is a helmet. 62:06 And inside it, it's got a bird on top that twitters and a little flashing thing that spins round. 62:14 And it also has a bird that flies round and you pull a string and it shoots it. 62:18 Was this on TV? 62:20 No. 62:21 No. 62:21 I remember seeing a mortarboard that you did. 62:24 Oh yeah. 62:24 That was genius. 62:25 That waterboard mortarboard, yeah. 62:28 So that when you pulled the tassels... Did I tell you about the one I did as an April Fool? 62:34 I did one that was circular. 62:37 And I told the examiner that it was health and safety had brought it in. 62:43 Take the points off the motorboat And they believed it And they went out to find accidents that had been caused by motorboats And you know what? 62:56 They found them Yeah You look hard enough 63:01 Yeah. 63:01 You know when they throw them up in the air? 63:03 Yeah, of course. 63:04 Yeah, yeah. 63:05 Embedded in someone's head. 63:06 So your waterboard, mortarboard, you pull the tassel and it becomes like an umbrella. 63:11 My waterboard, mortarboard, was you pull the tassel and instead of it being just a little mortarboard, it spread out into an umbrella. 63:17 See, that's mathematics right there, isn't it? 63:21 Yeah. 63:22 Geometric shape. 63:22 Yeah. 63:24 I also have, I don't know if I've still got it, but... 63:29 a Tamashanta that spreads out in bad weather I've got a double a double Mac which I used which was originally patented but I'd made for Jonathan Ross 63:48 I've seen that one as well. 63:50 I watched a lot of telly as a kid. 63:52 I think you were dressed with it in Jonathan Ross. 63:55 You looked really uncomfortable. 63:57 I was as well. 64:00 Yes, he fascinated me. 64:03 He's the only bloke I've seen with actual creases in his underpants and a full button fly. 64:09 I thought, he doesn't suffer from any incontinence, does he? 64:14 Of all the people you worked with, who impressed you the most? 64:17 Who did you think, oh, this is a really decent human being? 64:24 Well, Tony Hart was... He was pretty good. 64:29 But then again, we had a sensible relationship. 64:33 I mean, he didn't mind me because I did what I did. 64:36 But when he did what he did, I didn't interfere with it. 64:39 Other people tried to. 64:42 When it was his bit, it was his bit. 64:49 So I got on with him for years. 64:51 You seemed quite moved. 64:53 There was an interview on the radio where they told you that he had died. 65:00 I didn't know it was an interview. 65:01 I thought it was somebody just ringing up telling me he'd died. 65:04 I didn't know it was on the radio. 65:06 I didn't know that. 65:07 People complained about that. 65:09 You burst into tears. 65:10 Yeah. 65:13 Because I'd been told that he was going to die, but it was a year before. 65:17 He got flu and he survived. 65:19 Oh, and he was, you know, the dreadful. 65:23 Some swine, and I hope you're listening, you little shit, did a thing of Tony Hart with strings attached to him 65:33 And below him, if you pan down, there was me with a machine with strings or something, actually working him. 65:40 Because he had a stroke and he was paralysed. 65:45 You know, what kind of a creep does that? 65:48 Anyway, we went to his funeral. 65:53 Of course, he was an officer in the... God, my brain's stopped again. 66:02 What they call them, those Indian soldiers. 66:06 The Gurkhas? 66:07 Yeah, he was an officer in the Gurkhas. 66:09 There was no softy either, you know. 66:12 He seemed like a proper old school gentleman in a way. 66:18 Yeah, he was. 66:19 There was a public outpouring in one way. 66:21 I mean, a lot of publicity for someone who 66:25 for Documentally. 66:54 The object was made in paper and it wasn't being made, it was being unmade. 67:01 So it was quicker and shorter the way around. 67:04 And whoever was doing it was wearing a ring, which Tony didn't. 67:10 He had one of my backs as well. 67:16 He had one of your bikes, a working bike or a model? 67:18 No, a model, the Belfast Beatifier. 67:22 It was like a thing that went along blessing the crowds. 67:25 It had a statue of Jesus on the top and it blessed the crowds just in case Jesus didn't come. 67:31 Did he buy it or did you? 67:32 No, I gave it to him. 67:36 Belfast Beatifier. 67:38 Yeah. 67:40 Because you made some of your bikes into working models. 67:44 Yeah. 67:45 I actually made a full-size worm catcher for the Worm Charming Championships. 67:53 Did it work? 67:55 Did it work? 67:56 Because I saw a news thing with tennis rackets where there were charming worms. 68:01 Did you? 68:02 Years ago. 68:02 And I thought, is this a real thing? 68:04 I don't remember. 68:05 Because there was somebody doing that with... 68:08 It was, no, but that works. 68:11 That does work. 68:14 No, it was at some stately home and, God, it was the Beadle bunch, but Beadle wasn't there. 68:25 It was an Irish guy was there and it was... Matthew Kelly? 68:33 No, not him, the other one. 68:37 a shorter you know who kept saying to me you know beef it up I said look that's not what I do this is the way I talk and this is the way I am I'm not a children's presenter I don't do that beef it up I used to talk quietly 69:01 and seriously so that people would believe what I was saying even if I was talking a load of crap. 69:08 and I've only ever heard you shout once but I don't think that went on the TV because it was an invention that I mean the fact that they were going to put this invention on the TV I don't know what if kids went out and made this it was your crow scarer which has been released or leaked to the internet that's right yeah well the thing about that was explain what it looked like and what it was meant it was a helmet and attached to the top of it were these tubes which fired 69:38 These little screaming chemical pellets which sounded like ricocheting bullets and that was made for me by Edward Greenhoff, the bloke I told you about and he made me one or two and the thing was I fastened that one to a helmet and the idea was you electrically detonate it and it fired these things and I made it 70:08 on a golf course in Liverpool with all the camera crew there and I'm a bit nervous of it being on my head and if you notice, if you see it I've got my hands in my pockets because they're shaking and I detonate it and it starts firing and they're going up okay to start with then they start going sideways then they start going down 70:30 and I realised afterwards why this was because we'd been carrying them around laid flat and the little pellets which were supposed to fire up had turned round luckily it was the last one I had but we tried another one on Fun Factory without me putting it on my head and that shot all over the place and we had to leave quickly because we did it in a car park 70:54 for Documentally featuring 71:08 Yeah, it was... I wish I'd got some of the... There was a guy who used to take photographs and he took some terrific photographs of some of the explosions because you could see this big flash of flame and me stood in the middle of it because that's not how it was. 71:28 It'd go so quick and I've got none of them. 71:32 I think the only one I've got, which wasn't taken down, I'd done a show... 71:39 Where I had to escape, that was it, from something. 71:46 But the idea was that we'd asked the audience, we showed the audience that these were real explosive, but we needed a dustbin. 71:57 Did anybody have a dustbin? 71:59 Well, there was one guy in the audience, a great big bloke, wasn't he? 72:04 And he was so big. 72:08 that he had a dustbin under his cloak. 72:13 And he appeared with this dustbin, put it on the stage, because it was pre-prepared, this dustbin. 72:21 And I put the explosives in and did the blast. 72:28 And it went boom! 72:31 And the photograph shows it there, this big blast coming out. 72:35 Anyway, and all the band going like this. 72:37 And then the day after, I'm in my local pub. 72:41 And this guy comes in. 72:42 I said, I saw your show at the town hall. 72:46 I said, what do you think? 72:48 It was crap. 72:50 I said, what do you mean? 72:51 He said, well, you know, when that dustbin exploded, he said, I was covered in crap. 73:01 I don't think I asked him what it was, but I found out later. 73:05 This dustbin had been left in the caretaker's hole and he'd thrown his tea in it which was spaghetti and what had happened you can see it on the video there's this big blast going up and on the top of it there's a layer of spaghetti which most of all of it landed on this one bloke it's a terrific picture yeah 73:35 Oh wow. 73:35 He didn't enjoy that at all. 73:38 Because I used to do escapology and things used to go wrong. 73:43 Mainly ones with Sylvester. 73:48 Sylvester McCoy who became Doctor Who but I always thought that you would have made a great Doctor Who. 73:54 Yeah but I can't act. 73:56 Well that could have been a problem. 73:58 Yes, it was made quite clear to them. 74:00 That's one of the reasons why there was never any, that's why it just said Wilf Explosion because they knew if there were any words there, that was it. 74:09 But how come you were mocked up once as Doctor Who? 74:13 Well, I was laid on a surgeon's trolley and there were doctors around me. 74:20 and do you know the the what those two comedians American comedians Abbott and Costello it was them doing that sketch which obviously they picked up and done it in this because they were all doctors oh the doctor and the doctor who when they pulled the thing down it's me 74:46 um that's that's why it was doctor when you've done this uh this mock-up of the radio time to be on the front the other time you don't think it's like because that would make a great friend I mean of all the things you've got framed here fascinating stuff that yeah but I never collected them you see a lot of the stuff I've got photograph wise is from people who've died 75:12 I wonder if there's somebody out there that actually has the super rare, possibly unarchived, Radio Times with Wilf Lund on the cover. 75:21 No, I think they only did one. 75:23 Oh, really? 75:24 Yeah, yeah, I think there was only one done. 75:27 It was done for the sketch. 75:29 Ah, gotcha. 75:30 Yeah, a lot, I don't, you know, if you talk about... 75:37 I suppose some people did record. 75:39 You see, what happened with me was, on two occasions, I don't think I did any vision on, but shows that I did. 75:47 I mean, I was once a replacement for Diana Dawes in a show in Glasgow. 75:55 I did The Word and things like that. 76:00 And all these videotapes were all lost. 76:03 Because one guy I gave them the two inlays was going to make a show tape out of them, said they'd all been stolen. 76:10 And believe it or not, the guy who drove me all these years everywhere, who also was going to make a show tape, which went on forever, got done as a paedophile. 76:22 No way. 76:23 Yeah, with that, yeah. 76:24 Well, paedophile, I don't know what you'd call him a paedophile, but he was one of these who collected images 76:31 I think it's 40,000 images. 76:34 And all his videos are gone. 76:42 He didn't drive for anybody else as well, did he? 76:44 No, no. 76:46 I don't know where... I have some odd ones. 76:50 I think I've got the one video of that show you're talking about with the Mac. 77:01 but I've not got no others of I had no videos of the Fred Talbot show and they I'd done a show years ago where I said which had caused a load of letters when I said that that a chicken when it laid its eggs they always came out point pointed end last to stop its bottom shutting with a bang and I wanted to 77:30 and there was actually a video on I mean where would you see a video of a chicken and I wrote to the TV company who did it who had also done this Fred Talbot thing and they never even replied you know is that true of course it's true it is true I really wanted it to be true you've got to go and watch 77:57 I need to watch more chicken having eggs videos. 78:01 Speaking of media, you've got a mini disc player. 78:05 Have I? 78:06 Yeah, there's a mini disc player there. 78:08 That's unusual to see nowadays. 78:10 Well, why is it unusual to me? 78:12 Well, I mean, I've got one because I used to record... Well, one time what I was going to do was I was actually going to read my book and record it. 78:25 but I never did like you know I intend to do the medical ideally for me it would be better on videotape the medical thing in sections you know couldn't you go to your because you've got a good relationship with local radio haven't you 78:43 No. 78:43 Oh. 78:44 I have a relationship, but... No, that's only a good one. 78:48 No, only when they need me, you know, I mean... Oh, ask for a favour in return. 78:52 Say, go and serialise your book. 78:53 They've got studios there, empty most of the time. 78:58 I'd rather do it TV-wise. 79:00 Ah, OK. 79:01 I got you. 79:02 I'd rather do it with the objects and stuff like that. 79:05 The book would work, but... The point about this is that I've got the stuff... 79:13 You don't have to go to museums. 79:15 You don't have to go anywhere. 79:16 It's all here. 79:19 And, you know, I'm sure it will be quite easy once I get myself sorted out, you know. 79:25 Would you consider doing something like a YouTube series? 79:29 Because there's opportunities for way more viewers. 79:32 Or is it a financial thing? 79:36 No, it's not a financial thing. 79:37 I mean, only if it costs me money, is it a financial thing? 79:45 So how many books have you written and what are you working on now? 79:49 Well I've written like I wrote Grotty Gifts and Mad Things to Make from Vision Up now that's an area that's completely dead now nobody buys how to do books so I thought of doing a how to make a 80:09 outlawed how to make in other words how to make the things I used to make that you're not allowed to make now merely because you can't get the explosives and things but I thought that so I did I've done a fine dining book which I published I've done a 80:30 children's alphabet I've done Christmas trees I've done two cartoon books so that's about six and your next project 80:46 I'm not going to give it away, it's a top secret it's not a top secret there's a lot of work in this I'm looking just around me right now if you're going to do a book on all this medical stuff, you need help yeah big sigh yes I certainly do most of the writing is done 81:12 um the uh the main bit is uh is the photographs which I'll sort out next I bought me I've got my backdrops and stuff so once you get them done because I like to lay it out myself because I hate books where the writing is telling you about something and it's 47 pages on like Pinto's Book of Tree which is about wooden stuff you know you're farting about looking 81:41 so I really ideally like one page and one picture but some of them are a bit longer than that I mean I wrote to Johnson you know what they call her Boris's sister and she didn't even reply and she'd actually asked me to write something 82:04 www.nickknackatarian.com 82:22 and getting me into just embracing curiosity I don't think I've ever met anybody as curious just about the minutia of the world as you but also taking it apart and seeing how it works yeah okie dokie thank you very much thank you 82:44 so can can you just do an introductory piece that I can put at the beginning saying uh I am and and what you are like my name is my name is Wilf Lund which I always have an apostrophe after the F because the red's missing because my original name was Wilfred Makepeace Lund I'm now uh 83:09 a Knickknackatarian to the Clutterati so I collect all sorts of bits and pieces mainly medical stuff just now my workshop is in a bit of a disarray so I'm not actually building many things but I hope to get stuff built and actually open a gallery sometime next year I'm going to combine with Arfon Jones' studio in Wales sometime in the summer 83:40 And that's basically about me. 83:47 there you go thanks for listening I know this is a long one I just wanted to leave in pretty much everything so did you hear how embarrassed he got when I said nice things about him he really he was just so incredibly humble and it was an absolute pleasure to get to hang out with him and we hung out for a while after this recording as well I seem to remember we had some wine gums at one point which was quite nice 84:16 Anyway, thanks again for listening and I'd just like to say thank you, Wilfred Wilfred Makepeace Lund 20th March 1942 13th December 2023 May you rest in peace Thanks for listening Oh, I'd better put some music on the end so you know it's definitely the end Here you go 84:49 Documentally.