Camden Bernatz (00:00:00) - Welcome to Brands and Campaigns, the stories and people behind clever marketing moves powered by EKR. I'm your host, Camden Bernatz, creative director and head of brand strategy at EKR. All right, so as I mentioned before in the past episodes, the goal of this show and the focus is to feature the people and stories behind interesting marketing, right? Not just to review. Was it good? Did it work? Things like that. But actually, how did things come to be. And so the focus of today's episode is a commercial that is perhaps one of the more memorable, at least if you're my age or older and were around to witness it. It's an earworm. It has led to memes. It has led to halloween costumes and parody and lots of things. And that is the commercial from Starburst called the Berries and Cream commercial or the Little Lad commercial. If you've heard it before or seen it before, you probably immediately have this little tone in your head. If not, this is where I asked Adam, our producer, we cut and we put the ad the audio in. We should do that for the commercial.
Boy (00:01:13) - You tried these? Berries and cream Starburst?
Little Lad (00:01:16) - Pardon me? And what kind of Starburst did you just say?
Boy (00:01:18) - Berries.
Little Lad (00:01:20) - Berries? Berries and what else?
Boy (00:01:22) - And cream.
Little Lad (00:01:23) - Berries and cream. Oh, hurrah. Berries and cream, berries and cream. I'm a little lad who loves berries and cream, berries and cream, berries and cream. Oh, I'm a little lad who loves berries and cream.
Camden Bernatz (00:01:38) - This commercial, the Berries and Cream commercial from Starburst was very simple just selling this new flavor of Starburst and a very common candy. And they had a berries and cream variety. But because of its unique nature, its silliness, its memorability over time, I really wanted to dive into how did this come to be. And so today joining us, we have Winslow Dennis who was the producer over this commercial. So Winslow, thank you for being with us today.
Winslow Dennis (00:02:05) - No, thank you for having me. It's funny, earworm is something that I hadn't heard in a while. But yeah, it definitely was one of those.
Camden Bernatz (00:02:16) - Yes. It's something that over time if someone ever mentions berries or cream or any context, it just kind of pops back in my head over the years. So first of all, could you explain this kind of a little background, your role. I mentioned you were the senior producer on this. But your role, what role did you play in bringing this to life?
Winslow Dennis (00:02:34) - Well, as you say, I was the producer. But the way this spot really got through was, and I think I mentioned this to you before there were creatives, were Brendan Davis and Phil Kowitz, and poor Brendan Davis probably sang and behaved like the little lad about 75 times in different presentations over the course of getting the spot through. We had a at shy back in those days, we had a great relationship with Mars. We did some pretty cutting edge work and this was just one of those and I think that there were always a little -- when he would perform this, that people would, clients would sort of cock their heads and think, what am I missing here? Or where are they taking us with this? But the concept of saying berries and cream six times in the commercial really got the point across I’m sure.
Camden Bernatz (00:03:39) - Yeah, I can definitely imagine some different, obviously ultimately, you got to prove but some confusion in those initial pitches because it is not featuring any specific benefit or price point or where you can get it or a deal or anything like that or a celebrity spokesperson. It's just this silly way to remember: Oh, by the way, Starburst is selling berries and cream Starburst and it just sticks on your head.
Winslow Dennis (00:04:03) - Yeah, exactly it really was that and it was, sort of became iconic I think for probably that reason that you're mentioning and just for the number of reasons that which we'll get into, I'm sure.
Camden Bernatz (00:04:19) - So yeah. Do you have any more details? I know like the idea kind of started before it landed your desk as far as the concept of doing this commercial. But when it came to you how familiar are with like the sign off process or the pitch process? Do you know if it changed very much over time or if it pretty much was given to you as it was ideated?
Winslow Dennis (00:04:38) - You know I would say that any client if you tell them that you're going to say the name of the product six or seven times in the spot, they are happy. So it wasn't -- I don't think that said, I'm not sure that they pictured exactly what they got but the fact that repeating the product what multiple times in the thing they were like, oh yeah, great. Internally, I would say that creative direction at the time where Scott Vitrone, Ian Reichenthal, Gerry Graf, always pushing like, how are you going to make this funnier or how's this going to be – what are you going to, what's the, how are we going to get this? That kind of thing. So they definitely pushed it.
But I think I don't think overall that it had a very difficult time through it. I just think that during the process there were other spots up against it as well but this was always a favorite and I don't think that there was a lot of difficulty getting it through but there were about 75 meetings where he had to say it.
Camden Bernatz (00:05:58) - It's like I think I'm there but explain to me one more time. Right?
Winslow Dennis (00:06:01) - Yeah, exactly. No, 100%. And what exactly is he going to do? If you think about it the randomness of a bus station, and that's actually what the spot is called. The title of the spot really is bus station. Yeah. Funny enough but which has absolutely nothing to do with it in anybody's mind, but it's a bus station and this whole strange character popping up at a bus station to two kids.
So yeah, once it was green-lit, there was a lot of discussion about where exactly we were going to find this person. We actually even with the limited budget we have, we did cast in Los Angeles in New York. I think we may have done Chicago one day and we did England as well because if you think about it, little lad is sort of Harken to the old English days of, you know. So there was a consensus that we needed to try and put it out there and see what happened.
Camden Bernatz (00:07:11) - Yeah. So, talk to me about the casting process. I know obviously landed on Jack Ferver is the actor in there and his mannerisms, his personality, his dance, and all that, obviously, he could have gone a very different direction. How much did you know in advance the specifics of how you wanted this person to behave versus it depending on the actor's portrayal of it? Does that make sense to you? How much direction you did?
Winslow Dennis (00:07:37) - It's funny, I wish that I still had the, the, the casting from that because it's pretty amazing. In all the locations we had that wig so everybody had to put on a wig and sort of perform because we always knew that it was going to be that little Lord Fauntleroy or whatever the character is sort of chop haircut, and Jack Ferver, he really stood out and I mean, on the shoot day, I think he brought so much more. But in the casting, he definitely stood out as, because I believe he has a background in dance and things like that. So he had a very graceful sort of movement and everything and brought something to the character that many didn't. Any time that you do any sort of advertising, you don't just get to go send the client one person. There were some other choices.
There was a guy who once again, I'm going to forget the actor's name Bob Hoskins, there was a guy in England who was like a middle-aged guy looked like sort of like a Bob Hoskins and he did this very gruff sort of berries and cream, berries and cream which was a completely different direction, but there was something humorous about him. And then I think there was just like some other, we threw a third in there but from the get-go everybody's favorite was Jack.
Camden Bernatz (00:09:33) - Yeah, you talk how confusing it might have been to those who had to approve the idea, I imagine as an actor trying to like, okay, so you want me to, like, make sure I'm understanding what you're being, what you're asking me to do. I'm not an actor but to audition with that wig and be so silly. Like you should be feeling silly but is this the right kind of silly? Am I doing silly in the way you want or am I just totally bombing this? I can imagine that would be a unique experience.
Winslow Dennis (00:09:59) - Yeah. We did the callbacks and like just knew and just talking to Jack like he got the character. I sort of feel bad for him because perhaps Jack would have had a career in something else and been successful but since then he's been and I mean, now he's on what is he you can pay him to send you a message came. Yeah, he's on Cameo and, and it's so far you feel bad for him because he got typecast as the berries and cream lad.
But he brought a lot to it and once we did actually land on him in the casting, the next area was the costume, I mean, that little velvet sort of pantsuit jumpsuit, like I said, Lord Fauntleroy outfit was we had costume designers scattering all over Los Angeles to get just the right doyly thing that he's wearing, everything about that costume was painstakingly Scott Vitrone was on that like a cheap suit. So it was a great sort of that has become a great sort of iconic character.
Camden Bernatz (00:11:29) - Definitely original, definitely stands out from the rest. So, oh, go ahead.
Winslow Dennis (00:11:36) - I know I was just going to say imagine Brendan Davis' relief of not having to perform it himself anymore was the was the other great thing.
Camden Bernatz (00:11:45) - Yes, I can imagine. Yeah. So, time to shoot that you're going to get going and make it. Now, I think talking to you before you mentioned, I believe that the client was not able to attend that day, everything was going on, they were on set.
Winslow Dennis (00:11:59) - So yeah, as I said to you, I think there were three things that I think are the success of this. And when people talk about virality and how things become, how can you make a viral sensation, I don't believe that there is any set formula for that. I think that everybody knows that. But people will still try and sell you. But there were three things. One was getting Jack Ferver, as the talent and the casting was so critical and I'm just not sure that the Bob Hoskins guy would have ever delivered what we've seen.
The next thing was the attention to detail of that outfit. I mean, it is literally so perfect for what we were trying to do. The third thing was -- and not to say that the client would have, but there was a snowstorm when we were in Los Angeles before to shoot this. And so the clients couldn't make it out. So, we didn't have a client on set and that's not to say that the clients wouldn't have gone with what we were doing. But I do think that there was an opportunity, as we all know that work in this industry, when the client goes well, can we have a more toned-down version? Can you pull it back? Can he just say berries? And does he not have to berries and cream, can he not sing it? Can we try a version like that? And that's where you end up with that take that later on clients inevitably go, yeah. Can I see that take? And then there's that potential.
Because they weren't there literally, I mean, in the edit process, it was very simple. It was like this is what we have. You do not have him not singing it, you do not have him not jazz handling it or doing his dance. It literally was, this is what we shot. And in terms of the edit, I recall that they had very few comments except for one which was the kick.
Camden Bernatz (00:14:26) - I was going to ask you about that. Tell me about the kick.
Winslow Dennis (00:14:29) - So the original version of the spot that aired did not have the kick. The client didn't like it, they didn't understand it. Jack just did that himself. He just would riff that all by himself and we all thought it was hilarious but, and I actually believe that Gerry Graf didn't like it either. Sorry, Gerry. But it what went to air did not have the kick and then somehow I believe that it was to be honest, I believe it was the director Randy Krallman who leaked the version with the kick because he loved it so much.
Camden Bernatz (00:15:08) - It is kind of like if I remember, right? It's kind of after the fact like it's the commercial kind of wraps up and it's kind of just like little –
Winslow Dennis (00:15:13) - Yeah, they're just sort of like standing there. The kids are sort of standing there, like, what do we just see? And Jack's sort of there and Jack just throws a kick. The client didn't understand it. Right. Exactly. And look at it from a client perspective, they didn't understand it. Right. And they go, is he trying to kick them? And, like, we're like, no, it was just sort of a -- but to them they're like, it looks hostile and that's the type of granular thing that you would get, like it had, they been on set, there may have been many, many more, but they weren't and this was what they got.
Oddly enough, I don't know if they've ever celebrated it internally. I do know that they tried to do a recently a follow up to it with Jack that he recorded himself in like his attic or something. But in terms of success of commercials, I mean, the fact that this has been seen, I think we've reached billions sometimes now all over the world. I'm not sure that you can ask for a more successful spot and just on look alone, which has led to hundreds, if not thousands of posted imitations that were completely made up on their own.
So actually, let me back up a second here though. So we finished shooting the spot on the day. We're at a bus station, we have it for six hours probably, it was an active bus station. And that was the beginning of we're going so far back here. That was the beginning of, hey, can you get me some what we would call now social content? Like can we get something else? So we literally dropped roll of white side thing down and said to Jack like, okay, can you teach like, can we do maybe a how-to on the dance that you created? Because Jack made that dance to himself. I mean, we obviously he went through rounds and we looked at him with him and stuff but he's a dancer himself and choreographer I think everything.
So he came up with that with our yes, no, yeah, whatever. So we were like, yeah, let's do a how-to of the dance. And there were some things in there that he completely ripped on his own. I actually haven't looked at I should look so I can -- But I know there's a thing like where he talks about that's what Mommy one and they go, but mommy's gone and we're like, hey, this is just gold. Do you know what I'm saying we're just like this is gold, this guy is just on his own coming up with funny little pieces and bits. So, we created the Little Lad dance.
Now we put it up on a website just on a Starburst Berries and Cream website that we built, that was what you did, back then that was the original social. So this spot has all -- the excitement and I don't know popularity that it has and yet it never won a single award.
Camden Bernatz (00:19:02) - Yes, I’m going to ask you about that.
Winslow Dennis (00:19:05) - If you think about it, no client could ask for anything better in terms of popularity and virality. But this was back in the day when there weren't really awards for that type of thing. I'm not sure that that there is even now a, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, virality award or something like that. But even with all of that, it did not get any attention. I mean, I've strained myself to think I'm not even sure it was an honorable mention that I can or anything. They didn't know how to categorize it. But also no one was really paying attention to the virality aspect because it was so new.
So you have thousands of kids doing their own imitations and posting them online on YouTube. And we were looking at some of these things and it was hilarious and there was nothing. There was no -- and you would think in advertising in the industry that this would be something that you would want to recognize. But, but it wasn't, and the fact that it had that success and has had the amount of success that it has without even an honorable mention somewhere is.
Camden Bernatz (00:20:33) - I think that the term gets overused, but it really was ahead of its time. Like it was, it's the kind of thing that would, if you had something like that come out today, it would be talked about it, be recognized more. It's the kind of thing that you set up to go viral before it even had the social platforms to do so, it managed to do so.
Winslow Dennis (00:20:49) - Yeah, 100%, and the fact that and I think I mentioned this to you last time. I mean, there is on YouTube somebody and this was years ago before, like really good illustrator, photoshopping or whatever, and stuff who actually edited the little lad into a Star Wars, like video clip, like thing with the Little Lad kicking Darth Vader down the stairs. Do you know what I'm saying? And it's just like, oh my God, somebody spent so much time. I don't know, maybe he didn't spend that much time. But the fact that somebody did that was it was just one of many that we noticed and thought it was.
Camden Bernatz (00:21:36) - Yeah. And it's not like, it's not like this was a TV show or he had tons of lines or character development. This little small snippet of this character was enough people like I get what that guy is. I get the humor of that. I can imagine him in different situations. And yeah, it became a meme and something that you do these videos with and there's a Halloween costume and then it had kind of a renaissance in the last few years with the TikTok. I think it was 2021. It kind of became even people who maybe he didn't know about the original commercial that were just too young or unaware.
Winslow Dennis (00:22:03) - Oh my God. We got a whole new audience and it got a whole new audience. And the funny thing is that I don't think you can buy Berries and Cream Starburst. It was like a one off like flavor that they had, which do you know what I'm saying? I mean, like I can only imagine those kids that it's that have just seen her going to the store and being like, hey, or the Berries and Cream Starburst. They're like, what are you talking about? Yeah, I mean maybe they, did they release it for his follow up that Jack did? I can't remember. They must remember. Yeah, I mean, not that anybody is running out to buy him. But I mean, we used to chew those things sitting around the office for hours and with our teeth pulling our teeth out. But it's had this second life, which is just funny.
Camden Bernatz (00:22:57) - So how did the shoot itself go? Like where there's not a whole lot of people involved, like the two other guys at the station where they cracking up? Was there lots of retakes? Like, how did it go?
Winslow Dennis (00:23:05) - Yeah. It's funny, I mean, the two other kids, like, they're like nothing like one guy has one line. Yeah, berries and cream and like they were like total stoner dudes. You know what I mean? The tall skinny kid. I was like, I was like, wow, this is really a stretch for you, isn't it just standing there acting like a like a -- Yeah, I eat berries and cream.
Camden Bernatz (00:23:30) - Which also, by the way, we give a lot of credit to the Little Lad. I think their deadpan was also part of the humor just the fact that they're like, they didn't laugh or they're staring at this guy, his dance. No reaction.
Winslow Dennis (00:23:40) - Well, I mean, they were instructed not to do anything. Like it's like you're in your own reality and this guy is completely on his own reality. Yeah, we didn't want them to interact. It was supposed to just be this sort of standalone moment. But, yeah, I mean, those kids, I mean, literally they were like such a secondary thought in terms of the cast. You could have taken any two kids off the street and put them in there.
Camden Bernatz (00:24:11) - That's what they think like. Yeah.
Winslow Dennis (00:24:12) - Right. They're just random kids. The shoot day itself. I mean this was early on in Railey Crawman’s career and I think sort of helped to launch his career and it was a bus station and what do you like I think we may have thrown some litter on the ground to make it look a little like real bus stations-esque but because it was probably a lot cleaner than what we had. But and we just pulled the bus up and that was it. I mean, there is no set design on that. I think in the way back there are some lockers that you can barely see that are in the background that we may have smudged some dirt on or something. I don't know. But it was, yeah, it was a very simple task.
Then the Little Lad with his little suitcase that he drops, like it drops and he's. Yeah, it was, I mean, I don't know. I think we probably did it like 15 times. It was not a hard day. You had to move the camera around, but we did the wide maybe 15 times and then we did the PODs and that's why we had this like hour, hour plus to like, hey, let's quickly drop a white and so I can shoot them against that.
Camden Bernatz (00:25:53) - Okay. So, so then now jump to the end. So the shoots done, you've got a bunch of rough footage to work with and you're going home. Did you think you had something unique that you think it went well? We were your thoughts.
Winslow Dennis (00:26:06) - We knew we had some pretty funny. Like I said though no one knows what's going to be viral but we knew we had something funny. There obviously was the concern about, yeah, the client wasn't here, so how are they going to take it. The editor was Gavin Cutler, Ken Cutler. He knew that it was it was fine. I mean, period. It was just funny and it was a very easy edit. And like I said, I think there were like a couple back-and-forth with the client. It was not a lengthy process because they if they asked us do you have anything be like? Nope, this is what we got.
Camden Bernatz (00:26:55) - So was their initial response just very, not much of a response or was it clearly positive or what they think when they saw the cuts?
Winslow Dennis (00:27:02) - I think that after Brendan Davis performing it 75 times, I think that they sort of knew what to expect. We had chosen Jack and at that point and so they had seen him perform it, I think the only thing that they really would have not been aware of I mean, if we prep this in all the classic ways, I mean, they saw the wardrobe, they saw the other kids, all that stuff. The only thing they may not have been really aware of this exactly the angle in the bus station that we're in. But, I think that they were not shocked, they didn't fall off the floor. They played it very close to their chest. They just sort of like this was one of those ones where -- and many clients now you don't come to shoots because there are definitely those clients in the world right now who will go through every painstaking piece of process of the production phase and then we'll be like, okay, go shoot it and then it's all on you.
This was sort of my early days of one of those where they're like because they couldn't make it, it was like, well, it's all on you and when we delivered the spot it was exactly what we had said. I mean, it wasn't anything -- the kick was -- but it was exactly what they had been sold. So it wasn't like there was surprise or anything like that. To be honest, I wonder what in the office they thought amongst themselves when they saw it. But, I don't think that they weren't like ecstatic about it, but they weren't also like, oh my God, we can't run that. Yeah, so it was just sort of like, okay, and I think that it probably sold out Berries and Cream pretty quickly for him.
Camden Bernatz (00:29:19) - Yeah, at least at least awareness of Starburst again in general, even if you don't buy that flavor.
Winslow Dennis (00:29:25) - Right. Yeah. It's a classic Starburst spot and it's got a lot of brand, brand awareness for sure.
Camden Bernatz (00:29:37) - So you mentioned before I know virality or whatever you want to call it when it comes to media. Isn't something you can predict or perfectly formulate? So obviously, it's funny, and funny stuff spreads, but there have been funny things that didn't reach this level of virality. Not that I'm not asking you for the formula or anything because I know it doesn't exist. But what do you think made this get so far and wide? What was the success of this?
Winslow Dennis (00:30:01) - Honestly, like you said at the beginning earworm, right? I mean, it is a little catchy tune that sticks in your head. It's got a little dance to it which I mean, it would be, it may not have taken it as much if it had just been Jack sitting in a chair at the bus station and he didn't get up, you know what I'm saying and just sang it, maybe it wouldn't have had as much. So I think that, and once again, I mean, I think Jack and his whole get up it was it was sort of perfect in that way.
So I'm not meaning to say that only song and dance is viral but in this sort of kooky funny way. Perhaps?
Camden Bernatz (00:30:59) - And, again, we're not suggesting this is the first thing ever to be kooky and funny, right? But it was kind of early in this, I think it's been done more since then. This makes me think about like I think it was Mountain Dew Kickstarter, the Puppy Monkey Baby. Super weird, random goofy, nothing to do with Mountain Dew, but just memorable or a lot of like the Skittles Taste the Rainbows, like some of that stuff that has happened where it's. Yeah.
Winslow Dennis (00:31:25) - It’s the same creatives who did that.
Camden Bernatz (00:31:26) - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's been some levels of a reality but it's memorable and a quirky, unexpected random type of humor which is a fine balance between just being awkward and not funny versus awkward and funny. And so, whatever you can describe that. It's been done since, but Berries and Cream was kind of an early swing at being like, I just make this so weird that it's funny and memorable and let it be what it is.
Winslow Dennis (00:31:53) - Right. Yeah, it was sort of like a, it is what it is sort of project. Like I said, I give credit to Brandon Davis and Phil Kowitz for pushing this thing through and Scott Vitrone, but it was just on its face was, here it is. Here's your product. We're singing about it six times we'll mention it and it'll be fine and it fit right in that genre of everything that we did back then for Skittles and for Starburst, all of that work which was and some of that work also won awards whereas this didn't.
Camden Bernatz (00:32:42) - We need a retroactive award. We need to have that go back.
Winslow Dennis (00:32:45) - Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. It's sort of like the lifetime achievement award of advertising. This ad that's 30 years old still on, got legs. Yeah but yeah, I just think that it was the right time. Like I say, I mean, I can't say that the client would have ruined it, but there's just that chance they have been on set.
Camden Bernatz (00:33:13) - I love our clients, but it happens and they have reasons they have people to answer to and they want to have their input but it just, there is something about too many cooks in the kitchen so to speak that he can kind of, we can wear some stuff down.
Winslow Dennis (00:33:25) - Right, 100%. And this was one of those things where, and I've shot many a spot where like for Budweiser, where they don't come to the shoot, but you have to get the board. You know what I'm saying? Well, the board was the same on this from the beginning. It's not like we went off the rails and created something completely different. It is the board. So it's exactly what we said it was going to be. So there wasn't anything that they could have a fit about afterwards.
Camden Bernatz (00:33:58) - And this particular commercial is a prime example of why it's important that whoever is going to give final approval has at least the context of what led up to its creation because like this is so weird and random that if you had never heard the concept and this just landed on your desk and said, we get to run this? You'd be like, whoa, this is crazy. But if you need to kind of understand the philosophy behind it, so basically, yeah, I guess I'm speaking to the listeners out there, if you're someone who approves creative, make sure you have the understanding of what got to that point. So you're evaluating it based on that, not just do I like this or not myself.
Winslow Dennis (00:34:33) - Right. And the funny thing is, is that, and who knows, and I'm just speculating here but they had a certain amount of dollars allocated for berries and cream. Had this been like a regular straight-up starburst spot, maybe they would have been like, this is too risky and pushed it to the side. Do you know what I'm saying? But this was the money that they had for berries and cream and was all that they could have had. And I'm not saying that that's what happened, but you could see a world where that is. But I do think that, that, like I said, Brendan had to do it 75 times, I mean, I do think everybody within the chain at Mars knew at the time that this is what we were doing.
Camden Bernatz (00:35:15) - But yeah, that's a good point. Well, as you look back on it now, I know it's been years since and you've probably talked about in various capacities since then, any other like takeaways or insights or stories, anything that I haven't asked you about that we're missing out on you want to share? If not, that's fine.
Winslow Dennis (00:35:32) - No, I don't, I mean I really think that it's those key highlights that I mentioned and the fact that virality is everybody says wants to be able to say that they know what it is or how to make it, but I don't think that's true. And this just took off in a way that was something that was fun for kids to imitate and do their own interpretations of and allow them to express themselves in a fun way. So it worked.
Camden Bernatz (00:36:12) - I love it. It definitely will not be the last time that I go back and watch it again probably, or just have it come across my feed unprompted because it pops up every now and then. Well, thank you again for being on today.
Winslow Dennis (00:36:25) - No thank you.
Camden Bernatz (00:36:25) - What are you up to these days and what's the best way for people to either follow you in that or to get in touch with you?
Winslow Dennis (00:36:32) - I'm on LinkedIn. I'm still an executive producer, still doing the same stuff. Just freelancing around or working at Verizon.
Camden Bernatz (00:36:41) - Awesome. Awesome. Well, I'll look forward to the next step that comes out from your camp. And this definitely, I think in my opinion, should be on your virtual trophy case, so to speak.
Winslow Dennis (00:36:55) - I think it. I think that I have linked on my LinkedIn page.
Camden Bernatz (00:36:59) - There we go.
Winslow Dennis (00:36:59) - It is. Even though I did a lot of I did a bunch of Skittle spots, all those things, but this one just seems to have like I said, legs. I mean, everybody knows it. So it's great.
Camden Bernatz (00:37:16) - Yep. Exactly. Well, thank you again for being on.
Winslow Dennis (00:37:18) - Thank you. Camden.
Camden Bernatz (00:37:21) - Thank you to the listeners who joined us today and we'll see you next time.
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