PRODUCER: Please note: this podcast contains mention of
PRODUCER: child sexual abuse.
PRODUCER: In 2015, the Independent Inquiry into Child
PRODUCER: Sexual Abuse was set up to investigate where
PRODUCER: institutions failed to protect children in their
PRODUCER: care.
PRODUCER: The inquiry's final report, published in October
PRODUCER: 2022, laid out a set of powerful recommendations
PRODUCER: to address past failings and protect future
PRODUCER: generations of children from abuse.
PRODUCER: Recommendations for Change is a five-part
PRODUCER: podcast series from NSPCC Learning, examining
PRODUCER: why these recommendations are needed, how
PRODUCER: they'll work if implemented, and what impact
PRODUCER: they will have on the prevention of child sexual
PRODUCER: abuse.
PRODUCER: Episode three: children in care.
PRODUCER: Children in care or looked after children are a
PRODUCER: particularly vulnerable group.
PRODUCER: Many young people enter care because they have
PRODUCER: been abused or neglected and looked after
PRODUCER: children might move in and out of care, or
PRODUCER: between care placements, frequently.
PRODUCER: These experiences can leave children with
PRODUCER: complex emotional and mental health needs, which
PRODUCER: can increase their vulnerability to abuse and
PRODUCER: exploitation.
PRODUCER: The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse
PRODUCER: found that, rather than being protected, many
PRODUCER: vulnerable children who entered care were
PRODUCER: subject to further abuse.
PRODUCER: In this episode, we will be looking in detail at
PRODUCER: the findings relating to children in care.
PRODUCER: To kick things off, I spoke to Claire Sands,
PRODUCER: Associate Head of Research at the NSPCC,
PRODUCER: to get a clearer understanding of the
PRODUCER: demographic of children currently in care in
PRODUCER: England and Wales, as well as their additional
PRODUCER: needs and challenges.
CLAIRE SANDS: Well, the number of looked after children
CLAIRE SANDS: has been increasing year-on-year since 2010.
CLAIRE SANDS: In the year ending 31st March 2023, there
CLAIRE SANDS: were 83,840 looked after
CLAIRE SANDS: children in local authority care in England,
CLAIRE SANDS: and this increase in demand has coincided
CLAIRE SANDS: with a reduction in funding of public
CLAIRE SANDS: services, including children's social care.
CLAIRE SANDS: We know from the data that the majority of
CLAIRE SANDS: children are in care because of abuse and
CLAIRE SANDS: neglect. The latest figures show that 65%
CLAIRE SANDS: of children in care in England, and 61.5%
CLAIRE SANDS: in Wales, were in care for these reasons.
CLAIRE SANDS: And in 2023, roughly 1 in 10 children in
CLAIRE SANDS: England and Wales experienced high
CLAIRE SANDS: instability in care.
CLAIRE SANDS: And this is when they have three or more
CLAIRE SANDS: different care placements in one year.
CLAIRE SANDS: So they're moving around a lot.
CLAIRE SANDS: And placement instability can have a
CLAIRE SANDS: detrimental impact on a child's emotional
CLAIRE SANDS: wellbeing and mental health.
CLAIRE SANDS: It can also prevent them from forming stable
CLAIRE SANDS: relationships with the adults who could help
CLAIRE SANDS: protect them.
CLAIRE SANDS: Children in care are more likely to have
CLAIRE SANDS: suffered hardship and trauma than their
CLAIRE SANDS: peers, and they may display challenging
CLAIRE SANDS: behaviour as a result of their experiences,
CLAIRE SANDS: and some find it hard to develop positive
CLAIRE SANDS: relationships with their peers and to trust
CLAIRE SANDS: adults.
CLAIRE SANDS: They're also more likely to go missing than
CLAIRE SANDS: children who are not in care.
CLAIRE SANDS: In 2023, missing incidents were reported for
CLAIRE SANDS: 12,740 children living in care,
CLAIRE SANDS: and almost two thirds of these missing
CLAIRE SANDS: incidents related to children who were in
CLAIRE SANDS: residential settings.
CLAIRE SANDS: Children might run away for any number of
CLAIRE SANDS: reasons, including to escape sexual abuse.
CLAIRE SANDS: A thematic assessment of IICSA Truth Project
CLAIRE SANDS: accounts found that 24% of children abused
CLAIRE SANDS: in residential contexts ran away.
CLAIRE SANDS: These factors, including the absence of peer
CLAIRE SANDS: and adult support networks, previous
CLAIRE SANDS: experiences of abuse and neglect, and
CLAIRE SANDS: increased likelihood of going missing, mean
CLAIRE SANDS: children in care are much more vulnerable to
CLAIRE SANDS: sexual abuse and exploitation.
PRODUCER: During the course of their investigations, what
PRODUCER: problems with the children's social care system
PRODUCER: did IICSA identify that impacted
PRODUCER: the safety and wellbeing of children in care?
CLAIRE SANDS: IICSA reported that institutional settings,
CLAIRE SANDS: including residential care, were prone to
CLAIRE SANDS: failures of leadership; a lack of concern
CLAIRE SANDS: for the welfare of the child; and
CLAIRE SANDS: inadequate, and sometimes wholly absent,
CLAIRE SANDS: child protection arrangements.
CLAIRE SANDS: The inquiry found that institutions
CLAIRE SANDS: sometimes prioritised their own reputations
CLAIRE SANDS: above the protection of children.
CLAIRE SANDS: Senior people in many of the institutions
CLAIRE SANDS: studied by the inquiry were rarely held
CLAIRE SANDS: accountable for sexual abuse that had
CLAIRE SANDS: occurred in their own institution.
CLAIRE SANDS: Power imbalances were exploited in some
CLAIRE SANDS: children's homes, where some staff treated
CLAIRE SANDS: children as undeserving of protection from
CLAIRE SANDS: sexual abuse.
CLAIRE SANDS: There was evidence of victim blaming
CLAIRE SANDS: language in almost every institution, and
CLAIRE SANDS: this went largely unchallenged.
CLAIRE SANDS: In some areas, children who were from ethnic
CLAIRE SANDS: minority communities were subject to racism
CLAIRE SANDS: by care staff.
CLAIRE SANDS: Across some institutions, there was little
CLAIRE SANDS: recognition that children with disabilities
CLAIRE SANDS: were more vulnerable to being sexually
CLAIRE SANDS: abused.
CLAIRE SANDS: The physical environment of some care
CLAIRE SANDS: settings, such as those with unsupervised
CLAIRE SANDS: outbuildings or extensive grounds, presented
CLAIRE SANDS: opportunities for sexual abuse to be
CLAIRE SANDS: perpetrated.
CLAIRE SANDS: Residential care in the 1970s and 1980s
CLAIRE SANDS: carried little priority with senior managers
CLAIRE SANDS: and local authorities, even when they were
CLAIRE SANDS: made aware of escalating numbers of
CLAIRE SANDS: allegations of sexual abuse.
CLAIRE SANDS: Many institutions knowingly retained in
CLAIRE SANDS: their employment adults who posed a risk to
CLAIRE SANDS: children.
CLAIRE SANDS: People classed as volunteers were often
CLAIRE SANDS: allowed open access to children in care
CLAIRE SANDS: without any vetting, and in some instances
CLAIRE SANDS: a sexualised culture existed in residential
CLAIRE SANDS: homes.
CLAIRE SANDS: Although standards of conduct and child
CLAIRE SANDS: protection procedures were frequently put in
CLAIRE SANDS: place, staff were rarely trained and in
CLAIRE SANDS: their use and action was not taken against
CLAIRE SANDS: those who did not comply with those
CLAIRE SANDS: standards.
CLAIRE SANDS: In the 1980s, there was additionally
CLAIRE SANDS: evidence of failures to vet foster carers
CLAIRE SANDS: properly for their suitability to look after
CLAIRE SANDS: children. When allegations of sexual abuse
CLAIRE SANDS: were made about foster carers, some councils
CLAIRE SANDS: were too willing to disbelieve the child.
CLAIRE SANDS: Indeed, complaints of abuse made by children
CLAIRE SANDS: were rarely listened to by institutions and
CLAIRE SANDS: were often dismissed without investigation.
CLAIRE SANDS: Strengthening the safeguarding systems
CLAIRE SANDS: within children's social care is a
CLAIRE SANDS: continuous task, and it's vital that we
CLAIRE SANDS: learn from IICSA and implement their
CLAIRE SANDS: recommendations.
PRODUCER: The final report makes clear the need to enact
PRODUCER: changes that create a safer environment for
PRODUCER: children living in care.
PRODUCER: The final report refers to a "patchy and
PRODUCER: incomplete" regulation of professions working
PRODUCER: with children in England and Wales.
PRODUCER: To find out more about how children's homes are
PRODUCER: currently regulated, I spoke to Patricia Cannon,
PRODUCER: a solicitor and head of family and childcare at
PRODUCER: law firm Simpson Millar.
PATRICIA CANNON: So, there is a Children's Homes
PATRICIA CANNON: Regulations Act, which is
PATRICIA CANNON: from 2015, and it sets nine quality
PATRICIA CANNON: standards for children's homes.
PATRICIA CANNON: I'll just detail a little bit of the
PATRICIA CANNON: standards that it sets.
PATRICIA CANNON: The first standard is the standard of
PATRICIA CANNON: care quality and purpose.
PATRICIA CANNON: So the idea around that standard is to
PATRICIA CANNON: address the needs of a child from a
PATRICIA CANNON: physical, emotional and psychological
PATRICIA CANNON: perspective.
PATRICIA CANNON: It's intended to promote growth and
PATRICIA CANNON: development so that it meets the
PATRICIA CANNON: particular needs of an individual child.
PATRICIA CANNON: Then there's also the children's views,
PATRICIA CANNON: wishes and feelings standard.
PATRICIA CANNON: It's designed to allow children a voice
PATRICIA CANNON: in decisions about their lives.
PATRICIA CANNON: It's set to allow children's opinions
PATRICIA CANNON: to be gathered and they should be
PATRICIA CANNON: listened to.
PATRICIA CANNON: There's the education standard, which
PATRICIA CANNON: requires suitable education provision to
PATRICIA CANNON: be provided to a child.
PATRICIA CANNON: There's the enjoyment and achievement
PATRICIA CANNON: standard. This is to encourage and foster
PATRICIA CANNON: positive relationships.
PATRICIA CANNON: Often children who are in children's
PATRICIA CANNON: homes don't have support networks.
PATRICIA CANNON: They've arrived from very difficult
PATRICIA CANNON: circumstances, and this is intended to
PATRICIA CANNON: help them develop their social skills,
PATRICIA CANNON: their emotional resilience, and also to
PATRICIA CANNON: help them develop a support network.
PATRICIA CANNON: There's the health and wellbeing
PATRICIA CANNON: standard. This covers emotional and
PATRICIA CANNON: physical care and should allow for access
PATRICIA CANNON: to mental health services as well.
PATRICIA CANNON: There's the protection of children
PATRICIA CANNON: standard, which addresses the importance
PATRICIA CANNON: of providing safe and secure living for
PATRICIA CANNON: children. And that should also cover the
PATRICIA CANNON: vetting of staff that work with children,
PATRICIA CANNON: and there should be processes for
PATRICIA CANNON: incident reporting and protocols for
PATRICIA CANNON: emergencies.
PATRICIA CANNON: The idea of the standard is to ensure
PATRICIA CANNON: that children are protected from harm and
PATRICIA CANNON: maltreatment.
PATRICIA CANNON: There's the leadership and management
PATRICIA CANNON: standard, which addresses the need for
PATRICIA CANNON: management structures to be in place so
PATRICIA CANNON: that there are skilled people working
PATRICIA CANNON: with children, maintaining high standards
PATRICIA CANNON: so that children have a consistent
PATRICIA CANNON: experience of the care that they are
PATRICIA CANNON: given. And then there's the care planning
PATRICIA CANNON: standard. This covers the needs for
PATRICIA CANNON: personalised care for children.
PATRICIA CANNON: So it would promote bespoke planning
PATRICIA CANNON: to help young people to develop
PATRICIA CANNON: opportunities for their future as well.
PATRICIA CANNON: The Children's Homes
PATRICIA CANNON: is inspected by Ofsted and it can assess
PATRICIA CANNON: those criteria which I've just described.
PATRICIA CANNON: Those are the ways that children's homes
PATRICIA CANNON: are regulated.
PRODUCER: And what are the regulatory requirements for
PRODUCER: people working with children in care settings?
PATRICIA CANNON: Sure, so, for those working with children
PATRICIA CANNON: in children's homes, they should undergo
PATRICIA CANNON: a criminal records check before taking up
PATRICIA CANNON: a position.
PATRICIA CANNON: It's described as DBS, which is the
PATRICIA CANNON: Disclosure Barring Service.
PATRICIA CANNON: So the idea is that it would reveal if
PATRICIA CANNON: someone is barred from engaging in
PATRICIA CANNON: regulated activity, for example, working
PATRICIA CANNON: with children.
PATRICIA CANNON: There are also regulations which set
PATRICIA CANNON: out information which an employer
PATRICIA CANNON: should check as to a person's suitability
PATRICIA CANNON: to work in a children's home, for
PATRICIA CANNON: example, proof of identity.
PATRICIA CANNON: They would need the DBS certificate,
PATRICIA CANNON: references, verification as far as
PATRICIA CANNON: possible as to the reason why they may
PATRICIA CANNON: have left their previous employment, or
PATRICIA CANNON: why their position might have ended.
PATRICIA CANNON: There should be documentary evidence of
PATRICIA CANNON: any qualifications that the person has
PATRICIA CANNON: that are relevant to the position, as
PATRICIA CANNON: well as a full employment history, and
PATRICIA CANNON: these records should be available for
PATRICIA CANNON: inspection if so required.
PATRICIA CANNON: What I would say about that is that where
PATRICIA CANNON: there is a concern that an individual may
PATRICIA CANNON: pose a risk of harm to children,
PATRICIA CANNON: employers have a legal duty to notify the
PATRICIA CANNON: DBS, for example, when they've dismissed
PATRICIA CANNON: an individual or where there is a
PATRICIA CANNON: reason that that individual has resigned
PATRICIA CANNON: from their role.
PATRICIA CANNON: But despite this, the DBS has indicated
PATRICIA CANNON: that it doesn't receive the number of
PATRICIA CANNON: referrals it would expect to from
PATRICIA CANNON: employers.
PRODUCER: So IICSA's recommendations nine and ten are
PRODUCER: about strengthening the use of the DBS barred
PRODUCER: list. What might this look like in practice?
PATRICIA CANNON: So, supervisory authorities have the
PATRICIA CANNON: power to refer individuals to the DBS
PATRICIA CANNON: so that they may be included on the
PATRICIA CANNON: barred list, but they don't have a legal
PATRICIA CANNON: duty to refer or to share information
PATRICIA CANNON: unless in response to a specific request,
PATRICIA CANNON: so that leaves it a little bit open.
PATRICIA CANNON: And the report that we're discussing
PATRICIA CANNON: remained concerned that individuals were
PATRICIA CANNON: not always being referred to the DBS, so
PATRICIA CANNON: that means that they could move on to a
PATRICIA CANNON: different setting without their risk
PATRICIA CANNON: being properly considered in their new
PATRICIA CANNON: working environment.
PRODUCER: The proposals around the DBS that Patricia just
PRODUCER: explained are part of IICSA's broader
PRODUCER: consideration of safer recruitment practices.
PRODUCER: The IICSA final report says that safer
PRODUCER: recruitment is, quote, "a central aspect
PRODUCER: of keeping children safe", but that "throughout
PRODUCER: its investigations, the inquiry encountered
PRODUCER: examples of poor recruitment practice".
PRODUCER: I asked Chloe Meaney, a safeguarding consultant
PRODUCER: at the NSPCC who specialises in HR and
PRODUCER: safer recruitment, to provide some advice on
PRODUCER: what organisations can do to ensure they're
PRODUCER: putting safer recruitment at the heart of their
PRODUCER: recruitment processes.
CHLOE MEANEY: So what we've learned from there is that all
CHLOE MEANEY: of these areas of safe recruitment are
CHLOE MEANEY: vital to keeping children safe, and we have
CHLOE MEANEY: to remain vigilant and maintain a continual
CHLOE MEANEY: learning approach to all the elements that
CHLOE MEANEY: make for a good, safer recruitment practice.
CHLOE MEANEY: To help us understand what safer recruitment
CHLOE MEANEY: looks like, it's really helpful to break it
CHLOE MEANEY: down into key areas.
CHLOE MEANEY: So we have the planning, understanding
CHLOE MEANEY: the roles as well as a really
CHLOE MEANEY: well-thought-out selection and assessment
CHLOE MEANEY: process; robust vetting; and then all
CHLOE MEANEY: the elements that are required to
CHLOE MEANEY: continually assess suitability, such as
CHLOE MEANEY: induction, trial or probation periods,
CHLOE MEANEY: regular check-ins and a really clear policy
CHLOE MEANEY: on expected conduct and behaviour and how to
CHLOE MEANEY: manage any safeguarding concerns.
CHLOE MEANEY: I would say a really good place to start for
CHLOE MEANEY: organisations and individuals who have
CHLOE MEANEY: control of these types of policies is to
CHLOE MEANEY: really look at those, look at your
CHLOE MEANEY: recruitment, selection and vetting policy
CHLOE MEANEY: and process as it currently is, and does it
CHLOE MEANEY: include safer recruitment steps?
CHLOE MEANEY: You know, what does that look like?
CHLOE MEANEY: Is it legally compliant? Has it been
CHLOE MEANEY: reviewed with a safeguarding mindset, for
CHLOE MEANEY: example? That's really the key to this.
CHLOE MEANEY: And, you know, going beyond compliance, does
CHLOE MEANEY: it support a positive safeguarding culture?
CHLOE MEANEY: And these are all questions we can explore
CHLOE MEANEY: when reviewing how we are practising safe
CHLOE MEANEY: recruitment. So it does go far beyond just
CHLOE MEANEY: the the criminal record check and the
CHLOE MEANEY: safeguarding messages that we're so used to
CHLOE MEANEY: talking about.
PRODUCER: Are there any resources out that professionals
PRODUCER: should make use of when reviewing their safer
PRODUCER: recruitment processes?
CHLOE MEANEY: There's so much out there. I mean, a lot of
CHLOE MEANEY: this is in statutory guidance, you know,
CHLOE MEANEY: Working together to safeguard children.
CHLOE MEANEY: And then there's lots of sector-driven
CHLOE MEANEY: guidance as well that really outlines the
CHLOE MEANEY: basic...
CHLOE MEANEY: Getting the basics right. And getting the
CHLOE MEANEY: basics right is fundamental to a really
CHLOE MEANEY: robust, safer recruitment process.
CHLOE MEANEY: But what we also have learned from
CHLOE MEANEY: the inquiry is what
CHLOE MEANEY: we can do beyond the basics.
CHLOE MEANEY: And those are things like incorporating
CHLOE MEANEY: value-based recruitment and value-based
CHLOE MEANEY: interviewing is an example of that.
CHLOE MEANEY: It's a framework that helps us to ask
CHLOE MEANEY: questions around a person's motivation and
CHLOE MEANEY: attitude in relation to working with
CHLOE MEANEY: children, as well as their understanding of
CHLOE MEANEY: safe practice and professional boundaries.
CHLOE MEANEY: And it's only when we start asking those
CHLOE MEANEY: richer questions from individuals that we
CHLOE MEANEY: can really understand more about them.
CHLOE MEANEY: It always has to be relevant to the role.
CHLOE MEANEY: So I come back to understanding the role and
CHLOE MEANEY: mapping your selection criteria and
CHLOE MEANEY: assessment against the role.
CHLOE MEANEY: So, to make sure that those are the
CHLOE MEANEY: questions that you're asking at selection
CHLOE MEANEY: stage are relevant, but that they give you
CHLOE MEANEY: the opportunity to learn more about
CHLOE MEANEY: individuals and make that really informed
CHLOE MEANEY: decision about their suitability
CHLOE MEANEY: in working with children and young people.
PRODUCER: And if you'd like to learn more, we've put some
PRODUCER: links to different NSPCC safer recruitment
PRODUCER: resources in the podcast show notes.
PRODUCER: As part of its proposals around regulation of
PRODUCER: the care sector, IICSA recommends that the UK
PRODUCER: government introduces arrangements for the
PRODUCER: registration of care staff working in children's
PRODUCER: homes, recommendation seven in the final report.
PRODUCER: Staff in children's homes are already required
PRODUCER: to have a DBS check, but registration would
PRODUCER: enhance the accountability of staff and ensure
PRODUCER: they're receiving the necessary training for the
PRODUCER: role. The IICSA recommendation says that
PRODUCER: registration should be with an independent body
PRODUCER: that sets and maintains standards of training,
PRODUCER: conduct and continuing professional development.
PRODUCER: This body should also have the power to enforce
PRODUCER: these through fitness to practice procedures.
PRODUCER: The registration of care staff in children's
PRODUCER: homes is already in place in Scotland, Northern
PRODUCER: Ireland and Wales.
PRODUCER: To find out more about how this kind of
PRODUCER: registration works in practice, I spoke to David
PRODUCER: Pritchard. David is the director of regulation
PRODUCER: at Social Care Wales, which is the regulator of
PRODUCER: the social care workforce in Wales.
DAVID PRITCHARD: This recommendation is around the
DAVID PRITCHARD: regulation of those who work in
DAVID PRITCHARD: children's homes, and it's about whether
DAVID PRITCHARD: we think about those people who do that
DAVID PRITCHARD: work and think they should be registered
DAVID PRITCHARD: in the same way perhaps that nurses,
DAVID PRITCHARD: that doctors, that a whole range of other
DAVID PRITCHARD: professionals are.
DAVID PRITCHARD: It's not really within my gift to talk
DAVID PRITCHARD: about what the situation is in England,
DAVID PRITCHARD: but I can give you a little bit of our
DAVID PRITCHARD: experience in Wales where we've been
DAVID PRITCHARD: registering people who work in children's
DAVID PRITCHARD: homes for many years.
DAVID PRITCHARD: We have around 3500
DAVID PRITCHARD: people, working in that sector, and
DAVID PRITCHARD: they're all registered with us — that is
DAVID PRITCHARD: Social Care Wales — and what that means
DAVID PRITCHARD: is that when they apply to be on the
DAVID PRITCHARD: register, we do a check on who they are
DAVID PRITCHARD: and their background.
DAVID PRITCHARD: And that gives us a sense of whether they
DAVID PRITCHARD: are appropriate, and if they're not,
DAVID PRITCHARD: if they've got particular histories, we
DAVID PRITCHARD: will not allow them to work in the
DAVID PRITCHARD: sector, and that means they can't get a
DAVID PRITCHARD: job doing that work.
DAVID PRITCHARD: When they become registered, they're
DAVID PRITCHARD: subject to a code of professional
DAVID PRITCHARD: practice that sets out what they have to
DAVID PRITCHARD: do and how they do their job.
DAVID PRITCHARD: It's not about the specific tasks, it's
DAVID PRITCHARD: more about the values and the approach
DAVID PRITCHARD: that they take. If they fall foul of
DAVID PRITCHARD: that, then we have the opportunity to
DAVID PRITCHARD: investigate, and, if necessary,
DAVID PRITCHARD: to take action against that individual.
DAVID PRITCHARD: We can give them warnings.
DAVID PRITCHARD: We can recommend they take action to
DAVID PRITCHARD: learn particular things.
DAVID PRITCHARD: Or, at the extreme,
DAVID PRITCHARD: we can remove their right to work in the
DAVID PRITCHARD: sector. And that's a really powerful
DAVID PRITCHARD: contribution to public protection, we
DAVID PRITCHARD: believe. It really makes a difference to
DAVID PRITCHARD: the public's confidence in the children's
DAVID PRITCHARD: residential sector, but it also protects
DAVID PRITCHARD: the status and view
DAVID PRITCHARD: of the workforce itself, because they
DAVID PRITCHARD: know that they are part of a skilled,
DAVID PRITCHARD: competent and suitably qualified
DAVID PRITCHARD: group of individuals.
DAVID PRITCHARD: But I would say that registration isn't
DAVID PRITCHARD: just about public protection, although
DAVID PRITCHARD: that is clearly the first and foremost.
DAVID PRITCHARD: It also allows us to set standards.
DAVID PRITCHARD: It gives us huge amounts of data about
DAVID PRITCHARD: those who are working in our sector, and
DAVID PRITCHARD: it gives us a way of offering them
DAVID PRITCHARD: support and to communicate with them
DAVID PRITCHARD: about things that are important.
DAVID PRITCHARD: So, for example, during Covid, we
DAVID PRITCHARD: were able to give those people really
DAVID PRITCHARD: clear and important messages
DAVID PRITCHARD: about their practice during what was
DAVID PRITCHARD: clearly one of the most challenging
DAVID PRITCHARD: periods of our lifetimes.
DAVID PRITCHARD: It also allows us to learn information
DAVID PRITCHARD: about what's going on in the sector,
DAVID PRITCHARD: about the referrals we're getting and
DAVID PRITCHARD: areas, perhaps, of poor practice that we
DAVID PRITCHARD: can feed back into the sector to help
DAVID PRITCHARD: them improve practice and avoid making
DAVID PRITCHARD: some of those mistakes.
DAVID PRITCHARD: So we believe registration is
DAVID PRITCHARD: fundamentally about public protection,
DAVID PRITCHARD: but it also gives us a wider suite
DAVID PRITCHARD: of opportunities to improve practice
DAVID PRITCHARD: and improve the safeguarding of children
DAVID PRITCHARD: in children's residential sector.
PRODUCER: So, the registration of care staff can lead to
PRODUCER: an improvement in the quality of service
PRODUCER: provision as well as child protection.
PRODUCER: What other steps are Social Care Wales taking in
PRODUCER: light of the IICSA findings?
DAVID PRITCHARD: So I think the IICSA report really has
DAVID PRITCHARD: set a set of questions for all
DAVID PRITCHARD: of us working in social care about what
DAVID PRITCHARD: we do and how we work with other
DAVID PRITCHARD: agencies. And I think for us in Social
DAVID PRITCHARD: Care Wales, that has strengthened
DAVID PRITCHARD: our work with a range of other
DAVID PRITCHARD: organisations that I think is really
DAVID PRITCHARD: important. So, for example, around
DAVID PRITCHARD: safeguarding, we have put together
DAVID PRITCHARD: training for all those who
DAVID PRITCHARD: work in our sector, that they can get the
DAVID PRITCHARD: basics of what safeguarding requires.
DAVID PRITCHARD: And we work very closely with
DAVID PRITCHARD: the regional safeguarding boards that
DAVID PRITCHARD: have been established in Wales and the
DAVID PRITCHARD: National Independent Safeguarding Board
DAVID PRITCHARD: itself, to really assess what more
DAVID PRITCHARD: we can do to promote safeguarding
DAVID PRITCHARD: across the sector.
DAVID PRITCHARD: And, you know, generally children's
DAVID PRITCHARD: services are clearly under major pressure
DAVID PRITCHARD: across the UK and that's no difference in
DAVID PRITCHARD: Wales. But we've been very supportive of
DAVID PRITCHARD: working with the Welsh Government about a
DAVID PRITCHARD: range of initiatives to understand what
DAVID PRITCHARD: the issues are but also to put in place
DAVID PRITCHARD: the kind of solutions that might make a
DAVID PRITCHARD: difference. But what IICSA has done is
DAVID PRITCHARD: really shone a light on the sector and
DAVID PRITCHARD: where we can do more to help improve the
DAVID PRITCHARD: safeguarding of our children.
PRODUCER: In addition to recommendations that aim to
PRODUCER: create a safer environment for children in care,
PRODUCER: the IICSA final report also includes proposals
PRODUCER: to empower children in care to speak out about
PRODUCER: abuse and, crucially, have their voices listened
PRODUCER: to and respected.
PRODUCER: Reform to the legal recourse that children
PRODUCER: living in care have access to is one area of
PRODUCER: consideration.
PRODUCER: As mentioned earlier, children living in care
PRODUCER: may feel that they have little control or say
PRODUCER: over aspects of their life.
PRODUCER: This extends to their legal position.
PRODUCER: Decisions are made on their behalf by local
PRODUCER: authorities, who act as their corporate parent
PRODUCER: and arrange their care plan, and there are
PRODUCER: limited routes by which children and young
PRODUCER: people in care can express their views about
PRODUCER: their circumstances.
PRODUCER: Here's Patricia Cannon with more information.
PATRICIA CANNON: When a child is in care they could make a
PATRICIA CANNON: formal complaint about their care.
PATRICIA CANNON: There is a mechanism to do that.
PATRICIA CANNON: For example, they can — if they had the
PATRICIA CANNON: resources and the skills to do so — they
PATRICIA CANNON: could make a complaint to the Children's
PATRICIA CANNON: Commissioner or to a local government
PATRICIA CANNON: ombudsman.
PATRICIA CANNON: But it doesn't change the position of the
PATRICIA CANNON: children in care.
PATRICIA CANNON: There are limited routes by which
PATRICIA CANNON: children in care can try and
PATRICIA CANNON: raise concern about the care that they
PATRICIA CANNON: are given. They should have access to
PATRICIA CANNON: advocacy provision to make
PATRICIA CANNON: representations that they wish to make.
PATRICIA CANNON: It would be in limited circumstances,
PATRICIA CANNON: really, that children would probably feel
PATRICIA CANNON: empowered to raise these sorts of
PATRICIA CANNON: concerns because once they're in care,
PATRICIA CANNON: their network is more limited and
PATRICIA CANNON: they rely on those around them to be able
PATRICIA CANNON: to help them to raise concerns.
PATRICIA CANNON: And that's part of what this report had
PATRICIA CANNON: to address was children voicing concerns
PATRICIA CANNON: and not being listened to or feeling that
PATRICIA CANNON: they weren't listened to.
PATRICIA CANNON: At present children can bring
PATRICIA CANNON: applications under the Human Rights Act
PATRICIA CANNON: 1989.
PATRICIA CANNON: They would normally be represented by an
PATRICIA CANNON: adult acting as their litigation friend,
PATRICIA CANNON: and can conduct proceedings on their
PATRICIA CANNON: behalf. They can get legal aid for those
PATRICIA CANNON: sorts of applications.
PATRICIA CANNON: They can ask for a decision by a local
PATRICIA CANNON: authority to be judicially reviewed.
PATRICIA CANNON: But that's a legal mechanism
PATRICIA CANNON: that is very little used by children.
PATRICIA CANNON: And the child would need to show that the
PATRICIA CANNON: local authority had acted in a way that
PATRICIA CANNON: was illegal or irrational or procedurally
PATRICIA CANNON: improper. These are really high
PATRICIA CANNON: thresholds, so it's a difficult legal
PATRICIA CANNON: route for a child to take.
PATRICIA CANNON: Those proceedings don't put the welfare
PATRICIA CANNON: of a child as paramount importance,
PATRICIA CANNON: which is of paramount importance in
PATRICIA CANNON: Children Act proceedings, where, for
PATRICIA CANNON: example, the parents are involved.
PATRICIA CANNON: At the moment, children also have the
PATRICIA CANNON: recourse of reporting matters to the
PATRICIA CANNON: police again. This report reveals that
PATRICIA CANNON: that's difficult for them to do.
PATRICIA CANNON: They're vulnerable. There are issues with
PATRICIA CANNON: them being scared of not being believed
PATRICIA CANNON: or, in fact, not being believed.
PATRICIA CANNON: They could also seek compensation under
PATRICIA CANNON: the criminal injuries compensation claim
PATRICIA CANNON: but, again, that there would be might
PATRICIA CANNON: have been police involvement.
PATRICIA CANNON: It's quite a difficult one for a child to
PATRICIA CANNON: raise awareness about the concerns that
PATRICIA CANNON: they have.
PRODUCER: Recommendation six of the IICSA final report
PRODUCER: proposes an amendment to the Children Act 1989
PRODUCER: that will improve children's access to legal
PRODUCER: recourse. Patricia, please can you explain how
PRODUCER: this amendment will work if implemented?
PATRICIA CANNON: Recommendation six is,
PATRICIA CANNON: again, an empowerment option for a child
PATRICIA CANNON: because they can make an application to
PATRICIA CANNON: the court. The application can be brought
PATRICIA CANNON: by the child. This recommendation
PATRICIA CANNON: would allow the court to consider an
PATRICIA CANNON: application by a child where there is
PATRICIA CANNON: reasonable cause to believe that a child
PATRICIA CANNON: who is in the care of a local authority
PATRICIA CANNON: is experiencing, or is at risk of
PATRICIA CANNON: experiencing, significant harm.
PATRICIA CANNON: And what the provision would do
PATRICIA CANNON: would be to prohibit a local authority
PATRICIA CANNON: from taking an act or a proposed act
PATRICIA CANNON: which it would otherwise be entitled
PATRICIA CANNON: to take in exercising its parental
PATRICIA CANNON: responsibility for the child.
PATRICIA CANNON: And the court could give directions.
PATRICIA CANNON: And the change would ensure that
PATRICIA CANNON: vulnerable children at risk of harm have
PATRICIA CANNON: recourse to court about a range of
PATRICIA CANNON: aspects about their care.
PATRICIA CANNON: And it would mean that in raising those
PATRICIA CANNON: concerns, their welfare is the court's
PATRICIA CANNON: paramount consideration, as it is,
PATRICIA CANNON: when local authorities bring care
PATRICIA CANNON: proceedings or where parents go before
PATRICIA CANNON: the court in relation to private law
PATRICIA CANNON: applications, which are disputes between
PATRICIA CANNON: parents.
PRODUCER: In addition, IICSA emphasises that the amendment
PRODUCER: should be accompanied by the introduction of
PRODUCER: procedural measures to ensure court applications
PRODUCER: are accessible to children in care.
PRODUCER: There should also be provision for legal aid to
PRODUCER: provide advice and assist with representation.
PRODUCER: Patricia raised the important point that IICSA
PRODUCER: found that some children who voiced concerns
PRODUCER: around abuse did not feel listened to, or were
PRODUCER: worried that their concerns weren't being
PRODUCER: believed. One of the ways the report proposes
PRODUCER: to address this is through recommendation 13,
PRODUCER: the introduction of mandatory reporting.
PRODUCER: This recommendation would make it a legal
PRODUCER: requirement for certain individuals to report
PRODUCER: child sexual abuse when they witness abuse
PRODUCER: happening or when they receive a disclosure of
PRODUCER: abuse. These individuals will be known as
PRODUCER: mandated reporters.
PRODUCER: This puts the onus of reporting abuse onto the
PRODUCER: caregiver, meaning there would be substantively
PRODUCER: more support for the child to come forward and
PRODUCER: disclose abuse when it is happening.
PRODUCER: Since the publication of the IICSA final report,
PRODUCER: the government has held two consultations into
PRODUCER: mandatory reporting and what it might look like
PRODUCER: in practice, and the NSPCC submitted responses
PRODUCER: to both of those consultations.
PRODUCER: I spoke to Matt Forde, Partnerships and
PRODUCER: Development Director at the NSPCC, about the
PRODUCER: recommendation as proposed by IICSA.
MATT FORDE: The inquiry reached its position and made its
MATT FORDE: recommendation on mandatory reporting because
MATT FORDE: of the terrible evidence that was found of
MATT FORDE: institutions and individuals failing to act,
MATT FORDE: even when they were aware or suspected
MATT FORDE: that children were being abused.
MATT FORDE: And it's just completely unacceptable for
MATT FORDE: adults, particularly professionals in
MATT FORDE: positions of trust, to turn a blind eye
MATT FORDE: to abuse. They have an absolute responsibility
MATT FORDE: to protect children and young people. Reporting
MATT FORDE: abuse is essential and we would always
MATT FORDE: say that people should speak up if they have
MATT FORDE: any doubt or concern about a child, including
MATT FORDE: through our Helpline.
MATT FORDE: So, you know, we're absolutely clear about
MATT FORDE: that. But we don't think that mandatory
MATT FORDE: reporting is a magic bullet that will solve
MATT FORDE: the many problems that were uncovered by the
MATT FORDE: independent inquiry.
MATT FORDE: My caution is that, you know, we do know
MATT FORDE: from experience in other countries that there
MATT FORDE: are issues we need to consider here.
MATT FORDE: It's not necessarily the case
MATT FORDE: that introducing mandatory reporting would
MATT FORDE: improve outcomes for children, not least
MATT FORDE: because it could have unintended impacts on
MATT FORDE: the way that system works by shifting
MATT FORDE: resources to investigation without
MATT FORDE: necessarily improving outcomes for children
MATT FORDE: through care and therapeutic services.
MATT FORDE: So, I mean, it is essential that reporting
MATT FORDE: happens when abuse is suspected, that's how
MATT FORDE: you uncover it, but it's not the end in
MATT FORDE: itself. So, if it is introduced,
MATT FORDE: we would be saying that it has to be
MATT FORDE: introduced in a way that's part of a much
MATT FORDE: wider child-centred response which results in
MATT FORDE: children getting the right support when abuse
MATT FORDE: is uncovered so that they can recover.
MATT FORDE: If we are going to go this route, there have
MATT FORDE: to be resources provided to respond
MATT FORDE: to potentially higher demands for parts
MATT FORDE: of the system that are responding to levels of
MATT FORDE: disclosures and reports, because otherwise we
MATT FORDE: would be an unacceptable situation where lack
MATT FORDE: of resources would be preventing children who
MATT FORDE: are being abused being identified by the
MATT FORDE: authorities. You know, any approach to
MATT FORDE: mandatory reporting that results from the
MATT FORDE: current consultation has to be based on a
MATT FORDE: clear understanding that everyone has a role
MATT FORDE: and what their role is in protecting children.
MATT FORDE: And if groups of people within
MATT FORDE: services — people in positions of trust and so
MATT FORDE: on — become mandated reporters, they'd
MATT FORDE: have to be absolutely clear about the responsibilities
MATT FORDE: and also be equipped with the knowledge and
MATT FORDE: understanding to be able to see the potential
MATT FORDE: signs and indicators of abuse and to be clear
MATT FORDE: about what it is they do if they suspect
MATT FORDE: abuse. And training for people who would be
MATT FORDE: in that position of being mandated reporters
MATT FORDE: would be absolutely essential, and that needs
MATT FORDE: to be resourced.
MATT FORDE: And I think, lastly, mandatory reporting
MATT FORDE: needs to be seen in a context where
MATT FORDE: institutions are held accountable for
MATT FORDE: how they protect children.
MATT FORDE: And, you know, institutions ultimately are
MATT FORDE: responsible for the people who work for them
MATT FORDE: and for their own organisational record in
MATT FORDE: terms of protecting children.
MATT FORDE: None of what I've talked about
MATT FORDE: should result in children being denied
MATT FORDE: opportunities to engage in
MATT FORDE: safe places to get support.
MATT FORDE: They need to be able to go to safe spaces
MATT FORDE: without fear of always be reported to the
MATT FORDE: authorities.
MATT FORDE: So, we would think it'd be really important
MATT FORDE: to identify where any system that
MATT FORDE: allows children to have that sort of safe
MATT FORDE: space, for example, when they're engaged in
MATT FORDE: therapeutic work to help recover or
MATT FORDE: contacting Childline.
PRODUCER: At the time of recording, a mandatory reporting
PRODUCER: duty is set to be incorporated into the Criminal
PRODUCER: Justice Bill, which is currently making its way
PRODUCER: through Parliament.
PRODUCER: And, before bringing this podcast episode to a
PRODUCER: close, it's also important to mention that, in
PRODUCER: February 2023, the Department for Education
PRODUCER: published its plans to reform children's social
PRODUCER: care in England.
PRODUCER: This included plans to work with the sector to
PRODUCER: develop a national framework for children's
PRODUCER: social care.
PRODUCER: If you want to find out more, we've put a link
PRODUCER: to our CASPAR briefing summarising the proposals
PRODUCER: in the podcast show notes, and you'll also be
PRODUCER: able to find links to two podcast episodes we
PRODUCER: produced on the topic as well.
PRODUCER: Thanks to Patricia Cannon, Matt Forde, Chloe
PRODUCER: Meaney, David Pritchard and Claire Sands.
PRODUCER: In the next episode of Recommendations for
PRODUCER: Change, we'll be looking at online safety.
PRODUCER: How big is the scale of the online abuse
PRODUCER: problem, and how do the IICSA recommendations
PRODUCER: seek to tackle the issue?
PRODUCER: If you've been affected by any of the issues
PRODUCER: raised in this podcast, you can reach out to the
PRODUCER: NSPCC Helpline for support.
PRODUCER: Call 0808 800 5000
PRODUCER: or email help@nspcc.org.uk.
PRODUCER: This podcast series was produced in Autumn 2023.
PRODUCER: All information was correct at the time of
PRODUCER: recording, but the world of child protection is
PRODUCER: ever changing.
PRODUCER: To stay up to date, visit the NSPCC Learning
PRODUCER: website at nspcc.org.uk/learning.
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