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we are joined today by none other than Sherry Riano

what up Sherry

what's up yeah

and we actually have a special guest on today

Mike Wolgin

Mike has been in real estate since 2010

he started in APEX

is still there

and really is ingratiated himself in the community

and is excited to be on today

and just kind of share a little bit about himself

but also just some really cool things that he's

put on his own personal socials lately

so in addition to listening today

go out and check out his social medias

he can expound a lot more on there

what's up Mike

hey guys hi

how you doing I'm good

thank you for having me

and thank you for feeding me

oh absolutely

um defor yes

yes defor we love you and the

and this is why Mike comes to my office quite a bit

pretty much

fat guy goes with pieces

so I like said

I've been in the

in the game since 2010

super grateful to be here

my first podcast

nobody I I'd rather do this with um

so thank you for having me

thank you for being here

absolutely been in real since 2010

sort of when everybody was getting out of the game

I remember uh

being home in Philadelphia for Thanksgiving

and telling my family that I was gonna go into real

estate in 2010 and my uncle asked if I was an idiot um

really yeah

he was like

are you stupid no

why would you possibly get in a real estate right now

love this of course yeah yeah

fun at the Walgen house yeah um

so started in 2010

was background

worked for a builder for several years before that

my sort of my story

give you a little bit of uh

outline on on who I am and sort of where I come from um

I had a uh our first

me and my wife had our first child in 2006

I was working with

for a national builder in Philadelphia

the market as you guys know died

and they said you could either

go to North Carolina or you could not have a job

so I said I go to North Carolina

so we picked up and we went

and then we had our second child in 2008

and I was sort of the

last round of layoffs in Pennsylvania

I made it through several rounds and

the same exact thing happened to me in North Carolina

so I was sort of

at a crossroads uh

laid off by the same company twice

with two small children

and sort of had a moment where I said I'm

I'm never gonna work for anybody ever again yeah

so I went to real estate school in 2010 um

and and haven't looked back since then

we've growing every year we've been in the business

I have a very small team

it's only me and 4 other agents and our incredible

operations manager Ashley

Love Ashley

she's the best realtors

don't get any ideas

you cannot steal her

she she's she's the glue so uh

we're just a small group

we have an office in downtown APEX on Salem Street

claim to fame next to fresh ice cream um

very much involved in the community uh

whether giving back to service people

uh doing doing blood drives for the community

we we just I live in APEX

we we are just uh

part of the heartbeat of that community and love

helping people um

we go all over wherever the business is

but sort of centralized yeah

centralized at home um

so that's my personal story

just to give you a little bit of information about me

and sort of what drives me

um but again

really happy to be here

yeah man well

that's cool well

one of the things that

uh you know

we're gonna be discussing today is Sherry pointed out

last month we had

tax evaluations come out in Way County

and she has shared

that you had done a really good job at explaining

just what that means for Way County residents

homeowners I think there's a lot of confusion out there

and you know

we really liked about your

what you shared was you kind of broke it down and you

and you simplified it to where you know

everyone could really understand

and I think when you get into

you know something like that

it's almost like you're

when you get your first tax Bill as a homeowner

and you're like holy hell

is this something I have to pay now

and let you know and

and you know

you had to write as a Linda for my

no actually

remember that escrow account we set up yeah

like 12 months ago

this is my cover

I still get clients that call me

that have been in there for seven years that say oh

when when is my tax billed

and I'm like you

you escrow yeah

yeah that yeah

so don't worry

just the mortgage company's gonna pay it

don't pay on it

that's right

but it's just by education right

general education

conditioning allows peace of mind

where confusion and unrest was before

and your post really did a really good job of

helping bring education to that area

so we were kind of hoping you would just

really kind of dive into that

like can I talk

talk about what happened in January 2024 with

evaluations

um talk about why it happened

but also talk about how it affects the average buyer

yeah so I'm

I'm I'm glad we're talking about it

cause you're right

so much of it is just not knowing right and

people don't do this every day

like we do it every day

so it's simple for us to sort of have a greater

understanding about the process and what it means

because we're in it every day

um so tax the assessments come out every four years

used to be every eight years

eight years

now it's every four years

so the last assessment is 2020

so right around what Covid

Covid era and as

if you've been paying attention at all to real estate

values in this area

specifically Way County

you'll know that the values have exploded since then

if you attempt yes

if you have tried to buy a home

and whether it was in 2020

2021 and you were in multiple offers

and you were having to pay a

ridiculous amount of due diligence to today

because even when the market has shifted a little bit

because interest rates have gone up

values haven't really come down

especially in desirable areas like where

where we are so um

with the assessments

their true reflection

not quite a true

exact mirror reflection of where values are

there still in some cases 5 to 10% off um

but there are a reflection of

what's happened to real estate values since 2020

so I give you a personal example we have a

our home in APEX and our when our assessment came

the value had doubled

and I think the initial reaction is oh my God

my taxes are gonna go crazy yeah

this is life changing yeah

this is gonna this is gonna be a huge uh

problem for me

I'm gonna have to spend so much money on taxes

blah blah blah kid

you're not going to college oh shit

I'm actually in that right now

so hope you enjoyed I spent last month

you're never getting it again yeah

hundred percent

so I think when the initial shock sort of wears off um

you realize that the also they've adjusted the tax rate

so the tax rate has come down pretty significantly too

so even though your tat your

your taxes might have gone up based on the assessment

with the rate coming down it's

it's a pretty minimal difference

for example

my personal home

like I said

doubled in the assessment

so you would think I'll double the taxes well

with the rate coming down

it's actually I worked out the math

it's only about $21 a month really change yeah

so it is not listen

it's not my my money

your money is not my money so $21

I'm not trying to yeah

to make it not seem like a big deal

but in the grand scheme of things

when you're talking about a monthly

not when it comes to

you know those kinds of payments

it's not hopefully life changing well

it's also relative because

you appreciate your value double

but your increase in tax payment only went up 21 bucks

right like yeah

you know the value there is substantially greater than

the monthly payment

then the cost of basically $300 additional

there you go

if I was gonna ask you

would you like to have double the value and slightly

bigger tech

oh yeah tax Bill $20 a month

I'm ready yeah

I think everybody listening would

would sign up for double the value because wow

I mean there's nothing in the stock

stock market there's no

mutual funds that are doubling in value in four years

so so it's been if you did buy

you know recently or even in the last 15

20 years and you've seen your values more than double

you're in a good spot

and hopefully the extra

little bit of money for an

assessment standpoint isn't gonna hurt you

maybe we could link

so there's a

there's a there's a tax calculator

uh huh that you that the county provides

maybe we could link that in yeah yeah

it's working well

it's all my social post

I don't remember the exact

is it your personal social post uh no

I think it was done through the walls in real estate

but we'll check and we'll get you that information

it's great because you can put in

your address

and then it'll

it'll show you what

your last year's tax payment was

what last year's rate was right

and what the proposed

cost will be for 2024 obviously

because tax was don't come out until September

so you're not gonna know exactly until then

but it can show you exactly the breakdown

which I think is really great

hopefully we can

we can link that as a podcast absolutely

I hope that that was a in general

fairly good explanation

but it's not as scary as it seems

that I think there's been a lot of hype about it

yeah like you said

I don't think everybody balanced out that yes

it doubled but they also lowered the rate

and so that's why we didn't feel

what people thought they were gonna feel

when their value did double

and like you said I mean

what other areas in the country are we get

are you seeing double values in four years

I mean there's maybe three places in the entire country

so think about the benefit you're getting for

in terms of generational wealth

that's right

when you are

when you are doubling your values

and with the market you know

as you guys have probably talked about

our previous podcast

but with interest rates having gone up

in the market being tougher

prices still haven't come down

right right

right so it's not like we're in this free fall

and you're gonna be assessed something that isn't what

it is I mean

there are still

in the areas that we live in

we're talking about Wayne County

there are still

some houses are sitting a little

bit longer than they did two years ago

but there are still houses that are going

multiple offers

well over asking price

so I think it's also important

remember even 2008

this area appreciated in value

yeah you know

and so if two in 2008

this area appreciates this

I mean yes last years have been tough on interest rates

and tough on the housing market

but it were a

nowhere close to the situation we were in 2008 right

how much more

so are we going to expect to see appreciation

even this year

if the Fed does drop rates three or four times

if you're an investor

they're thinking five or six times

I mean how much more are we gonna see

appreciation in this area just from those drops

I I think you know

we have a very insulated market

we say it all the time

to where you know

whether you agree with the state politics or not

the state government has made it very

lucrative and beneficial

for big businesses to move into the state

and with big businesses moving in

so do people

people bring families you know

they need places to live

those families gonna need places to live baby

that's right

that's right

and we don't still have enough inventory

there's no inventory

there's still no inventory I mean

it's just not

what we need I mean

builders aren't building it fast enough

people are really wanting to hang on

to that 2 and 3% rate they got right

and they're willing to do whatever it takes to

hang on to it

so it's gonna

that's why they should talk to you

they should

because with the values that they have actually

just increased right

you just doubled my value wow

what does that look like

if we take that equity

apply it to a new house now at

you know 6%

you might be in a bigger home yeah

you may wanna hold on to your house

if you can swing it right yeah

and there are people turning their primary residence

into investment properties

yeah and going to buy a new primary

because they have a rate of two and a half

and they don't want it

and it's making money

think about it

it's with rent

the way they are in our area

and they're gonna continue to at least stay stable

really any reason to think that they're not

and you're the expert

so I I just listen to what you say oh Lord

I think what you said is right

like in terms of if the Fed

does come out later in the year and reduce the

reduce the interest rate

you're gonna see obviously mortgage rates follow

and if mortgage rates follow

and we're we're in the five

say you know

we don't have a crystal ball

but say we're into the fives

you're talking about

I think in this area

and we county specifically

you know Carry APEX

Holly Springs Fuquay

Morrisville

Raleigh you're gonna see

a frenzy again

the way that it was

a couple years ago

where you were in competition in every house

and that's why

I try to tell people

that are thinking about selling now

that now is the time to do it

because you're still gonna get great value

for your home

right right

values haven't come down

you're still gonna get there's no inventory

you're still gonna greet great value selling your home

and you might actually not have to compete

for that new house and yeah

the rate might be a little bit higher

but in six months

you know it's a

I think it's an overuse statement now

but you date

you marry the house

you date the rape

but it's so true in that

you get into a house where you're not bidding

maybe you get a little bit off

you maybe you get some incentives from a builder

which they were not doing in 2020

2021 and you

you adjust your rate

you refinance your rate later on

and you've got into a home at a good price

and sold your home for

for immense value

and you got exactly what you wanted

versus having to settle right yeah

it's so true Pete

so many times people

were rushing

uh huh I mean

it was a frenzy right

how many times people said well

I wish we hadn't done that now well

that's why we talk about going ahead and acting now

like we're saying

don't wait for the frenzy to come

because then inevitably

you will give up on something

whether it's a location

it's a style of home

it's a number bedroom

whatever for you

so you know

act now and we listen

are so much of our business is based on referrals right

so I truly say this to my clients

like I don't care when you do it

as long as I'm your first phone call

and I know that you feel the same way

so forever client for

I'm not telling you this for my

we're not telling you this

in my opinion

for our benefit

I'm telling you this

because I know what it was like in 2020

2021 and how difficult it was on buyers

um and if the

effect on sellers hasn't been diminished

based on a decelerated market

you can still get what you want

but also not having to play the game on the buy side

I mean there's a huge benefit

right yeah well

I think it also I mean

just like the tax values

it comes down to edge buyer education

if you can educate your buyer on why the best deals

are not six months from now on

when the first rate drops

but the best deals were yesterday

and the further we get away from yesterday

the less of the deal you're gonna get as a buyer

I think that is

that is key in educating

the people that we talk to every single day

that lead who's just been on the fence and well

they were waiting for rates to come down from 8%

and now they're six

six and a half

and they're still on the fence

well you know

we haven't identified

I don't think

that virus painpoint

and maybe it's just a lack of

education on what is actually gonna happen

when those rates get to where they want to be

you're 100% right

and when you

get off the fence

there's gonna be 100 other people getting off the fence

absolutely so

you're not gonna be alone jumping the fence

you're gonna have people to break your fall

I said well

let's let's

let's talk about home just a little bit

I wanna hear more about APEX

just what have you seen in the APEX area

and then also

give me a place that you think is on the up and up

like where do you see buyers moving to or

or just a natural growth towards

so you know

APEX is obviously

an amazing place

it was voted

I think in 2019

the best place in the country to live by money magazine

I've seen the growth um

happen over the years

tremendously

I think we moved

to APEX in 2008

so we've been

I've had three different homes in APEX uh

I obviously

our offices there live

work and play there

kids go to school there

seen just tremendous growth

it used to be

subdivision here

subdivision there

farm farm farm

well those farms are

pretty much forgotten

at this point

and if you're familiar with the APEX area there

I remember when

across from Mile Chapel Elementary

was a huge farm

and now it's the public shopping center

um and that sort of

what happened everywhere

and it's gone that way

into New Hill as well

uh with Jordan Point and

and some of the other uh

neighborhoods

in that area and I was

there is not

a ton of land left

like you guys talk about carry

I'm sure a lot

and it's the same in APEX

it's the same

happening in Holly Springs

it's the same happening

if you quit um

I think you

when you look at investment

and for the next area

that may double in value

by the time the next tax assessment comes out in 2028

I really follow the builders

I always look to follow

where are the builders going

that's right

um and every builder

that I have my eye on

is gone to Sanford

so I I believe that Sanford

you know where they

the way it will be

the way that they talked about Pittsburgh

10 years ago

uh huh right

um you know

everyone was

was on and now you look

at Pittsburgh

it's almost as expensive as it is in APEX I know um

and the schools have gotten great

and in that

in Chatham County

and I think the same growth is gonna happen in Sanford

and so do so do

large businesses

you've got APEX

you've got Amazon

hubs going up all over

the mighty mighty

name of Disney

coming to Pittsburgh isn't it

yep yes yep

building a community out there

hundred percent

um so I I've

I've had investors purchased in Sanford um

because you can

get a great new home

one of my investment strategies

when I talk to

people that

are just starting to buy their first investment homes

is buying new

because you get

all the benefits of

the builder's warranty

so you don't have to really

manage that part of it

uh huh uh you get in

the beginning of a neighborhood

and you can watch as they

every few home sell

the prices go up

so by the time

if it's 150

home community

by the your fifth or

sixth in there

you're taking

the risk that they're gonna finish it

which all these builders

are gonna finish

it in this area um

every five or six sales

price go up

so by the time

you're done

you got 50 $60,000

an equity in your house

so nice so um

that's where I

see the growth

happening sort of

outside of um APEX

Holly Springs few Quay

which carry

which are always great places to invest

but if you were

if I had $1 million to invest right now

I'm taking it

all to see wow

it's a big strong

yeah Batman

that's what I'm saying

come on down there

woo all right

y'all heard it here on

our podcast

um yeah million dollars huh

yeah I don't have a million dollars

oh but if I did haha

that's where you

I got kids going to college soon

I gotta get it

you got it you gotta keep that money saved up

yeah for sure that's it

and now it's time for market in a minute

this where we give you an update on the condition to

the market each week

no matter the topic of the show

this week we saw a lot of news coming out about uh

the feds expectation of cutting interest rates

moving from March into may

where 50% of polled economy were

expecting the first cut to come in may

while the other 50% were actually

expecting to come in June

uh this is a

big change from when the majority were expecting

the first rate to cut to come out of March of 2024

um at the same time

we did see other reports state that hey

while the expected rate cut may come later in the year

it may come steeper later than later this year as well

and this is because there's some economists

out there that bleed the

inflationary data we're getting

specifically the jobs report

is a little bit inflated itself um

so we're not getting true numbers

we think that we're gonna see some higher layoffs in

the February reports than we saw in the January

January's job numbers came in

over 300,000

we were not expecting that to be that high

which cause investors to kind of back

off from that March date

so it'll be interesting to see of the next coming weeks

if the new jobs report numbers

reflect a lower than expected

employment rate

if that does happen

expect to see more investors pricing the first rate

cut from the Fed to come in may instead of June

either way it's setting up to be a hot summer market

tune in next week for the next mortgage

mindset market in a minute update

thanks a lot for being on the show today Sherry

thanks for being here as well

um this has been mortgage mindset

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