EWB 2.7 V1 Nick: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to I Look Miss Beauty, the podcast where we talk about the biggest stories in the beauty industry each week. I am Nick Axelrod Welk, joined by the ever charming, sunglassed Annie Diamond Creek Baum. Annie: Hey, cuties. Nick: The Robin Givens, Quivers, Robin Quivers to my Howard Stern. Yes. Is that what you said? Yes. Yes. Annie: I wasn't going to claim Robin Givens because, what, who's Robin Givens? Nick: I think Robin Givens is the one who claimed sexual assault against Mike Tyson. Annie: This is why, oh, we're going straight to hell. Okay, so Robin Quivers, I felt like I couldn't [00:01:00] claim that, but I feel like as like a Jewish radio host, you male, you were, you can claim Howard Stern. Nick: Fair. Anyway, this is Eyewitness Beauty, and Diamond is wearing sunglasses, she's wearing earrings, Annie: and I'm just trying to make the visuals interesting. Class up the Nick: joint. I know. We're doing And the visuals are for Patreon users only. Because Annie: we put the videos of all of these on our Patreon and we do a little clip for social. We do a little clip for social. So everybody's seeing what I look like and I'm trying to make it interesting, but I feel like I, I don't have enough wardrobe options where the neckline is, um, Works on, Nick: on fighting. Yeah. Annie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and that's comfortable to sit in and pot in. Like I have a lot of nice things, but I just feel weird putting on a blouse, a little blouse, Nick: you know? I don't know. That seems like [00:02:00] something to take up with yourself. Yeah. A who Annie: wears a blouse around their own house, like going a, Nick: going out top inside your own house. Yeah. Annie: I Nick: mean, I guess I Annie: could, I get it. Day tuned next week. So today I'm wearing some access. I'm wearing a hoodie. 'cause I thought like. I saw all the girls are wearing hoodies and then I'm wearing pearl earrings. Really? This is very different for me. I usually do just a little Nick: hoop and they're like pairs of ran over by a car. They're flat. You always got to take it to a negative place, Nick. No, I mean, like, beautifully, why don't you just say they're, they're, they're, they're shapely. Why don't you say they're skinny? How do they even make a pearl like that? It's like a disc. Ask God. Ask God. True. I don't pretend to know why she does the things she does. Annie: Silver ring that my friend, [00:03:00] who is a like 12th generation Tokyoian from Tokyo made for me. That's really cool. It's like a pinky. Is it a pinky? No. A pointer finger ring. It's like a signet. Is it a signet ring? Is that how you say it? Yeah. But with no inscription on it. Beautiful. Gorgeous. The rest is still unwritten, as Natasha Bedenfield once said. Nick: Yeah. Um. I will get it engraved one day. Who's to say? How are you? Um, Annie: fine. I'm in, like, train has left the station mode on work stuff, so I'm incredibly busy. And I feel kind of sad because I love traveling so much, but I just feel like I have to stay put. You know? Yeah. Like I feel like it's going to be, 2024 is going to be a year of like very little [00:04:00] adventure. Nick: Movement. Luckily you have that, don't you have that like under desk like aerobicizer? Annie: It's not quite the same to be honest. Nick: Fair. But you could like use the Vision, the Apple Vision Pro as like your goggles and then the aerobicizer and you could be anywhere you want. Annie: I've only tried a VR headset once in my life and I hated it. Nick: Can I say something not to say that I'm like seeing the future, but Emily Weiss and I used to have a joke that like, when we first started out in magazines, like working in magazines, like we thought we would, could be like the editor in chief one day, right? And then 2008 happened and we were like, Oh, wait, like magazines are going away. Annie: Wait, remind me what happened in 2008? Uh, the financial crisis. Oh, I was in high school. I didn't, I had no concept of. Nick: So, I mean, I were assistants at [00:05:00] women's daily and W magazine down the street from Lehman Lehman brothers, um, which went belly up, like. The first morning of what turned out to be the financial crisis. And I think, at least I said to myself, like, okay, I got to, this is got to figure out someone for another dream, because my dream just crumbled. We had a joke that, like, in the future, we would be, like, the editors in chief of, like, magazines that you would just, like, look at to, like, swipe pages, like, that they would all be sort of, like, virtual reality magazines, and guess what? Annie: Not far off. That's basically what we Nick: do on our phones every day. No, but the idea was that like, you just like kind of like blink to change the page, to turn the page, which I feel like is a function they have on the Apple vision Annie: pro when I talk, when I talk about the first part of my career and I, and I, I can't tell if people remember like world before social media, or if they can place. [00:06:00] My work experience and like a certain time of media. And so I've always like, I was the editor of a really popular beauty blog. That was really more of a beauty like websites. Then I tried to legitimize it by like not calling it a blog. And then I'm like, and this was before, you know, when you wanted to. Consume content. You had to go to a URL every day. Like you couldn't just open Instagram and like get all the content from all your favorite content creators. Like you, so I, I, so I would talk about like building an audience there. Nick: You think that, you think Brad dates you? I, I'm at a meeting with like, a young person like the other week. And I was like, I worked at a newspaper. That was just about fashion, and it came out every single day, and it was delivered to your desk. And we went around the country every single day. Can you believe that? [00:07:00] Annie: Those were the days. I really miss Style. com too. Nick: I remember Style. com obviously, but when I was at Women's Wear Daily, it was kind of a competitor. Annie: Did Women's Wear Daily have like a full archive of all the looks from every show ever? Nick: More or less, that was the problem was that Style. com, which was Condé Nast. Um, Women's Wear Daily was Fairchild, which was owned by Condé Nast, but like they were already at that point, like duplicating things, right? Like why wouldn't they have folded Sal. com into Women's Wear Daily early on? Because that would have made sense in terms of like Sal. com was an industry website that cataloged fashion shows, et cetera, but they like were keeping everything separate and letting all these different editors in chief be the editors in chief of their own thing versus combining resources. So then very quickly, Women's Word Era, we tried to like, start putting their catalogs up because they [00:08:00] have insane archives that like, they weren't putting the necessary resources into their website because they were still putting out a newspaper. Right. but I think actually what's sort of funny is Frosh Forward, whatever, 15 years, however long it's been since I was there, and I think they just hired. I'm the editor in chief of Women's Word Daily, which is now owned by Penske, who owns, I feel like, Variety and like all the trade publications, J Penske, and um, they just hired like, for the editor of Women's Word Daily, one of the most prestigious publications in all the land. The former editor in chief of, I think I want to say she knows. com. Annie: I don't know. Nick: I'm not against she knows, but it's just funny because at one point women's wear was so resistant to like, not only change, but just like so entrenched in its [00:09:00] fashion, it's already at the expense of it's like digital evolution. I think because there weren't young people who understood the internet who were also as well versed in. Fashion history. But I guess it doesn't matter anymore. Annie: It is so crazy. They really need to, we need more historians. I've been doing research for a project and even finding like an obituary in Texas is impossible. I know. This Nick: guy's obituary was just too Are you going with microfiche? Um, Annie: I know that that's a library term, but no, I should, they, they, you, they they claim to have their entire archive online, but they haven't had it online for two years now. And, and then I contact the The Dallas public library, and I can't get anything from them either. So then I'm like, oh, I went to a university that should have all of this. And then, but in order for [00:10:00] me to go to browse the archive of the U. T. library, I have to go to Austin. And like be there and use the computer on campus. I can't Nick: access it like you have to literally do the microfiche. So I, I used to love research and was, and inherited a love of research from my mother, learned it, I should say who was really wonderful at research. And I remember her taking me to the library when I was really young and learning how to use microfiche, which I imagine most newspapers, like the, the archives are still on. If you even go on the New York Times website for like articles in the nineties, they look like, they're like, it's, it's, they don't really have everything. Yeah. Okay. Because microfiche is basically like a negative print that you like look at. Under a light, like a projector kind of light thing and it, it's like a magnifying projector sort of thing. So, and then you are able to print the magnified projection of the [00:11:00] negative onto a piece of paper. So if you needed to like get articles, I can get time with some Mozart research glossy, Annie: obviously. Nick: Yeah. Um, anyway, Annie: um, why did we talk about all of that? Nick: Women's wear daily, the media landscape, she knows, she knows. com and she doesn't know referring to you. Annie: She doesn't know, she doesn't know, she knows. com. It sounds like one of those websites where it's like at the bottom of a news article that links to like a sponsored post on like, Like five things Nick: you have to stop doing before you get cancer or whatever. Annie: Yeah. Or like the tennis shoes, the skater shoes that Helen Hunt wore. And that went viral online, like five years now. It's crazy. She knows XO Jane. I don't know why Nick: we were creating an audience. We were just, I'm missing and that's okay, but we [00:12:00] should, I did Annie: a research project. That is What'd you do? Let me transition today, Nick: Nate. Hold on, can I say one thing quickly? I did a research project. I bought UGGs made in 1974 from Australia. The real UGG. And they're horrible. We know. They're horrible. Wait, what do you Wait, that Like, they're not comfortable. Wait, what? They're not Annie: comfortable. Hold on, should we save this for the bonus episode? I don't say it anymore. You have to sign up to, you have to sign up for the Patreon. Um, okay. That's actually fucking crazy. So I'm really, hold that thought. Um, no, my transition to top stories was the research project I did to get to the bottom of the trademark naming drama with Dr. Pillow Talk, Pillow Talk Nick: Derm and Charlotte Tilbury. Okay. Annie: Insert transition music here. Nick: What do you got for me, Annie? Annie: We, we've [00:13:00] received like several DMs. So our audience seems to be like, if there's a Venn diagram with our audience and people who care about Dr. Pillow Talk, it's like, there's a lot, it's like one circle. And so we, I had to get to, I had to figure out what was going on. I, this is like a niche, I thought she was more of like a niche. New York city Derm, but I think that she's actually, yes, Nick: Dr. Pillow or sorry, Annie: pillow talk of Derm is her handle. And so she's had this Instagram handle. Probably for years and years called Pillow Talk Derm. And she launched products. She built a huge following and she launched products under the name Pillow Talk Derm. And I believe the brand came out last year. It's fairly new and seemed to be doing well. And then. We got all these DMs saying, you know, you guys need to look at, look at this drama that's happening with, uh, pillow talk term and [00:14:00] she was cryptically making Instagram reels with her team. In a somewhat like joking way, but basically trying to let her audience know that she had to change the name of her brand that she launched from Pillow Talk Derm to her own name, Dr. Idris, which I think is a great name for a brand. Um, I think it should have been that, been that all along. I mean, I don't, Pillow Talk Derm is just, uh, sounds, I Nick: don't think that's the right word. What are you talking about? When you, when you say Pillow Talk? What? Like what's Pillow Talk Derm? What? I, I haven't been following her from the beginning. Is Pillow Talk a film? Like, do you have Pillow Talk with your like significant other? Like, what is Pillow Talk? What is it with like friends that are sleepover? Annie: well, pillow talk is like between lovers, like it is right. Yeah. But my, my, my understanding or what I assumed was she went by pillow talk term because she has a really nice voice. And so she does like soothing [00:15:00] camera, like, you know, videos, all of our content, our vibes. Kind of, but she just has a nice voice. And so I thought that maybe that's why she went by pillow talk to him. Whatever I don't, I, it didn't seem that deep, the, you know, it just seemed like a random Instagram handle that she made not knowing probably that she would get like a mass. You know, zillions of followers and then launch her own brand one day, but she did. And so then she had to change her name and she was kind of doing these shit to change her name. I'm going to let, I'm going to tell you. So I'm like, okay, she obviously got sued where she literally had to pull product and reprint packaging. I mean, that's. Huge. Like, you know, you've started brands. I'm in. If you have to change your name, you have to change everything. You're contacting lawyers, you're reprinting packaging, you're on the phone with China, you're on the, you have somebody in Hong Kong translating for you. You're being. Tens of [00:16:00] thousands of dollars. You're probably scrapping product. I mean, it's really a nightmare what you, and everything digitally as well. All your paperwork. I mean, it's just, Oh God, I can't even, it makes me, it, it hurts me to think about, and I, and I've dealt with stuff like that before, where it's like, I mean, not at that level where you had to literally change everything, but like even having a typo on a piece of packaging. Nick: Yeah. We had to reprint like tubes once. Um, At necessary and it's, it was like a huge, it's a huge Annie: mistake. Yeah. So, and, and so it's, it's clear that she had to change her name. It was, was the cryptic messaging she was trying to get across. And I'm thinking pillow talk, what's the other big brand. And, and I'm looking at the comments and people are saying, I'm never, I'm never supporting this other brand again. And people are being weird and cryptic in the comments too, because obviously if you get a lawsuit. You're probably advised by your lawyers not to talk about it to your, to your audience. Right. Especially if you're in the wrong, which, [00:17:00] you know, not to like, spoiler spoiler on her. Yeah. Spoiler alert. Like my judgment goes to Charlotte Tilbury. Who famously has a shade called pillow talk of her lip. I guess it was like a lipstick lip liner combo and then it's expanded where she's like created more and more shades of pillow talk this pillow talk that. So then I go online US TPO. I look up pillow talk in the cosmetic category. So Charlotte Tilbury's holding company has. Own the trademark for pillow talk in the cosmetics category across like all different like skin care preparations like color cosmetics For years and years like this isn't a new thing And you don't, you don't even have to hire a lawyer to tell you like naming your cosmetic company pillow talk is not a good idea, but Nick: there exists this trademark, Annie: right? But if you, [00:18:00] before you even incorporate your company and name it, you do definitely need to talk to a trademark lawyer to cross all your T's and dot all your I's and all that. I don't know if they just didn't do that, but it's really hard to feel bad for this woman that, like, had such a major oversight or didn't listen to any advice, like, maybe she did get advice from a lawyer saying, like, hey, this is really risky, because she was, because I've also been in situations where you have a name that's close to something in a similar category, but then you say, well, Both risk it. So I can get, I can give you an example. There's the, a product that with Thera in it and actually sent a C synthesis but they didn't have it for the cosmetic category. So it was kind of like a, okay, like, don't, they're just trying to intimidate us not to use it. But that's something where it's like, no, like this is. safe. This would not be safe. I'm sorry. Like she made a terrible decision naming [00:19:00] her company this and so it's kind of, I think, I think I have no problem with it. Nick: Were the people commenting, I'm never buying Charlotte Tilbury again, were they angry with you that it felt like a David and Goliath thing, like this enormous makeup? I mean, I feel like that's, they're like kind of ignoring the car, like not understanding the context, which is like, you Annie: know, very silly. You guys, like you can't, I, Charlotte Tilbury is completely in the right here. Yeah. Like if, if she did, for instance, if she did a lip balm, that would be like a skincare thing that would be a cosmetic it, even the, even though you think like, Oh, it's lip color. Like if she were to ever do like a bomb gloss, then suddenly they're in the same category. It's like, Love pillow talk to him, but she, she fucked up at least. That's my take from the outside. Maybe I'm missing some essential details where she didn't do anything wrong, but I don't Nick: know. Yeah. I mean, I guess like there you [00:20:00] can, I know in these situations, like there are ways to approach the person who's the trademark holder and apply for. Like to, or essentially like agree to, I forget what the term is, but you both can use it. Like you can say like, listen, we're different enough, you know, that we both feel comfortable with this. It's, I think it's probably pretty rare that that happens. But also I, I know that like one of the defining characteristics of, or the defining sort of points in the trademark case are whether it carry, whether it creates confusion to the consumer, like in the marketplace. So like if the consumer saw something that was called pillow talk and would be confused as to whether it was Charlotte Tilbury or pillow talk Durham, that would be a trademark infringement. And that seems like it would be, so case closed. Annie: Case closed. Sorry. And also, like, don't be bullies to Charlotte Tilbury. Like, if you're one of the [00:21:00] weirdos, like, online bullying Charlotte Tilbury over this, like, I don't know. Die on another hill. Yeah. Nick: Um, okay. So. In other news yesterday, I saw there were headlines all over, all over the internet about Estee Lauder cutting 5 percent of their workforce. And, you know, in radicals reporting on this announcement that the company made. You know, the CEO of Estee Lauder, Fabrizio Freuda, is sort of defending his own position. There's a lot of both consumers and there's some activist investors who are calling for his resignation, like saying that someone else needs to get Estee Lauder out of this, like, mess that they're in, this slump. That they're in Annie: what sales have been down, like what sales have been Nick: down China has been down travel retail, obviously due to the pandemic, which was, you know, like duty free shops, which was a huge business and growing business for all the Estee Lauder brands was down. [00:22:00] And really, you know, the thing about Estee Lauder is that, yes, it's all these companies and it's a conglomerate, a lot of the business. Or that of the sort of like health or business is tied to the Estee Lauder brand, which hasn't been in America, hasn't been part of the cultural conversation in quite a long time. they were able, I think, to find growth opportunities internationally. With like different lines within the Estee Lauder brand with advanced night repair, you Annie: know, yeah, they've been surviving on Nick: advanced night repair, correct. And, but like, how do you sort of modernize the, the sort of clear brand when, you know, there's just so much heritage that you can't like rebrand it, you know, it's the name of the, Annie: I know that we're constantly like. You know, tooting our own horn here, but I, I will say, I will, we did remember when we covered, they were sending advanced net repair into space and [00:23:00] we were like, they've lost the plot. Nick: So funny. So as part of this article. Fabrizio Freda, the CEO, who is quite a, he has a wonderful reputation. And I don't think that this, the slump is his fault. And I think he's probably right to defend his own position that he can turn it around. I think part of the multi pronged plan to turn Estee Lauder around involves some like pretty difficult things. Like, so another brand that. Estee Lauder owns this Clinique and Clinique was sort of the first dermatologist founded brand in some ways, because Dr. Ulrich in New York had formulated all the products. He was part of the press around the products that these were sort of. Not clogging dermatologist formulated products clinic, they kind of let their dermatologist founded product [00:24:00] wave that happened in the last, you know, 10 years pass them by, right? Let's more one. Now I would consider Clinique like a particularly clinical brand, even though it's literally called Clinique. Annie: Well, yeah, well, those have been going viral on TikTok. Yeah. So Nick: like they, they were going into some, they were leaning into Coler, like they were leaning into these different. Like, vitamin C thing. Like, they were just trying to find bright spots, but I think the general, I think the ad brand hair layer of Clinique didn't because they were kind of going for cult products, maybe? And so I think we're also Annie: going really young. I mean, they were going after the Glossier, like even shortly after Glossier launched. Yeah. Nick: And like there were all these other brands like that were, that started to eat their lunch, right? Like the ordinary, which they ended up acquiring, but Naturium, you know, uh, Inkey List, Dennis Gross, sure. And then there were like the more mature ones, like Peter Thomas Ross and Dennis Gross. Et cetera, et cetera. So one of the [00:25:00] turnaround plans is to sort of realign Clinique with dermatology. And so they're like doing some sort of like partnership with an N with the NYU Dermatology Institute, um, which I think will be hard at this point to sort of like, Do that for the consumer to like kind of rebrand as a, as a clinical brand. I just think that's hard for that fake Clinique because it doesn't see it at its core science y. Even more like everyone in every art director like copies the Irving Penn Clinique ads that were very science y. It, to me, it feels more like science with like the edges sanded off a little bit. Annie: Yeah. They made it too light digestible. Nick: and then the other one was like, so the other turnaround idea is to like make Estee Lauder cooler. And I'm like, these are really hard things to do. Like, how do you do this? Annie: Just go heritage brand. There [00:26:00] has to be more like heritage brands and beauty. And Nick: they have one there, which is the heritage brand. And I think they've done a, that's a huge business for Lauder. You know, they, apparently the bright spots were the ordinary and Le Labo. But you know, they've made this huge investment into Tom Ford. They ended up buying, they ended up buying all of Tom Ford, not just the beauty. And then it's still, it's not being produced by us. So I don't mean the fashion is being produced by the licensees that were producing it. But they now own it all. And Tom Ford fragrances do well. I don't think they're doing as well as they could be. Um, but Tom Ford skincare is not doing well. So I think they just like have a bunch of places where they, they sort of need to like tighten things, tighten the, the brands in some ways. Annie: They should hire us, just like J. Crew [00:27:00] hired How Long Gone to like open a store on Bowery. Oh yeah, yeah. And be like, serve drinks and have some vintage. They should just have us like do a little meeting like that and pay us a shit ton of money. We could, we could do it. We could turn them, we could turn Estee Lauder around. Nick: I mean, I think it's, I think it's obviously doable. You know, international has been a place where Estee Lauder has a, in some ways, a first mover advantage. I remember. Uh, being in Hong Kong when I worked at Lauder very briefly and learning that, you know, Mer is like a, it's just like such an enormous business in Asia which like we Americans who like can't think outside of our own little worlds, like can't compute. But I think that'll turn around, but I think it's like some interesting sort of brand equity versus sort of like cultural currency conversations happening where like, how do you, how do you do this? How do you slice and dice it? And especially when you're a publicly traded company and then [00:28:00] you have all these people's like calling for your resignation. It's not a lovely place. Annie: Yeah. It seems like they need to forget about Gen Z and focus on like millennial women, cause all the brands that they are working Nick: with. Right. Well, it's like, why can't Estee Lauder be more like, well, it could have been the Merit Beauty, you know what I mean? Um, and yet I think it's still felt too old lady for most people to buy. Annie: Yeah. They haven't had a ton of like, I mean, that Nick: was a big sigh. I know it's just a lot to think about. I want to fix it for them. I want to help. Annie: I know. Nick: I know. Do Annie: we get Francisco another year? Nick: Fabrizio? Yeah. We do. Fabrizio. Kim. Okay. And other beauty news. Beyonce finally revealed the name of her haircare brand and the launch date, which is February 20th, the brand is called [00:29:00] Secred, C E C R E D, Secred. Annie: Like Beyonce, Secred, I think is. But Nick: then like, Secred, like Beyonce. Annie: Yeah, but what was it? Se Noir, Se Noir, remember? Yes. Can I just say, I love Beyonce so much. You don't, you don't have to do this every time, Nick. I do. I love her. You're so scared. You're so scared of her. I'm scared of the beehive. I love her so much. Her creative direction is so bad. Like, what's not cool is like a play on word. Nick: Like, you know what I mean? Like just call it sacred. It doesn't have to be able to see like what, like, that's not clever. That's just like. It's so, like, it's so Tina Knowles coded to me, like, you know what would be cool if the You know what I mean? Like, [00:30:00] she, like, Tina is too involved. Annie: No, no, no. Well, well, first of all, Tina is the hairstylist in the family. She owned a beauty salon. So that's, like, kind of Well, Nick: she doesn't have to name the company. Annie: No, but I do think that, like, it does need to be Tina coded. Nick: Fine, but it should be Tina coded. Then call it, like, call it Tina. Annie: That, I would've, that would've been amazing. That would've been cool, right? You used to do a fragrance called Tina. Yes. She has to do a fragrance called Nick: Tina. That would be so much cooler. Like then we've like, we had like, 2005 we've named like the house of Darion. Like what was Darion? Did Darion moon anything? It was just like Annie: this. Oh, was Darion a person? Nick: I don't know. But like, it's almost just a little bit too much of a play on words. Annie: Well, okay, so the Haircare line, they've released a teaser video. It's a little more like, [00:31:00] it's giving like, uh, lemonade, you know, production value. Like, kind of creative, it was like a creative set styling with That felt like very like organic and like fashion. Yeah. It was like a big white drape over. It was like a, it was a, it was a video being projected on a curtain, like a white curtain. Yeah. On like a billowy, like. Folded white curtain and then cut in with like, or interspersed with like quick cuts of like a woman getting her hair shampooed, like a comb running through one of them, like a tight shot of braids. And then, and then back to like the slow, like pulled back shot of the projection. So it's like, it's giving, it's like very like. They had fashion people work on this. Yep. Or they referenced. I'm trying to think of like what her last brand reveal has been. No, but that was like yeah, yeah, I [00:32:00] guess. But like in a big way where they had like teaser videos and stuff. Like the stuff she did for Ivy Park was so overproduced in commercial. Yeah. This feels like It's not that, um, The funny Nick: thing is, like, she's, she is the best performer alive, and why can't that be enough? Like, you can't, not one person can be good at everything. Like, her, like, Ivy Park was a loss leader for Adidas. Like she does it like she can't launch a brand and but yet, like, why is she, I, and she, Annie: I blame Adidas for that more than Beyonce. It's like Puma, Rihanna, like these brands, like these, like, it doesn't work. I Nick: feel like Puma, Rihanna did work. Did it? I think Annie: so. Remember when Fenty, she did Fenty [00:33:00] fashion? That Nick: didn't work. Yeah. No, it didn't. Annie: Did it? I just feel like these superstars, I'm trying to think of a brand that a superstar has launched that has like Nick: rare beauty. Fenty beauty. Annie: No, I mean, beauty is different. Nick: Oh, like a brand. I mean, easy. It, it worked. I mean, he, he caused it to fail, but it worked. And also the row. Annie: Yeah, but that's coming from like, yeah. Yeah. And that ca that's coming from the internal world of the Olsons and I. And is sa is sacred also coming, like from Beyonce's core, or does she have like a what's it called? What's the Kendo brands like on the side, like Nick: doing a, oh, like an incubator? I don't know if she has an incubator, but I think the Austins cleaning had something they wanted to say. That was, we're right, but like somebody to express, [00:34:00] um, in the row and they'll call me view and like a real, a really clear conception of who their customer were and who they were targeting and. I don't think, I mean, clearly the customer that they're targeting for, what is it? Say noire? What is it? What does the hair? I can forget it. So it's definitely, it's definitely a Beyonce fan, sacred. It's definitely just the Beyonce fan. And I, and the piece that they're sort of missing is that like, you can't bring fans, fans, fans, fans, fans. Like fans of music don't translate to fans of hair care, like women buy hair care for different reasons than they listen to music. Do you know what Annie: I mean? I don't know. I feel like this does have a point of view in terms of like who their customer is and it doesn't just I [00:35:00] think like people that have textured hair that want like really high quality products that have more of like a, I don't know, like that, like fashion angle. I don't know. In the same way that, like, yeah, you can go to Byredo and get a, um, a product for. Like kinky curly hair, you know? And it feels like, I don't know what the packaging looks like for her line or like, what, if she's doing like leaning on fragrances or whatever, but from just the visuals alone, from her teaser video, it feels like she is making something for that customer. And yeah, I mean, like if it was more of like a, yeah. She definitely didn't do, um, like a montage of like every hair type. Like there were no, there was no like baby fine, like straight blonde hair. It was all like kinky texture. Like there were braids there were, but a lot of curls, a lot of like volume. I don't remember seeing straight hair [00:36:00] at all, actually. So I wonder if like, she's going to only do curl products, which would be really interesting. Yeah. I mean, I think that during a. Like Beyonce does Oribe, I think would be pretty successful. Beyonce for Oribe? No, like Nick: her version of an Oribe brand for her, like for that customer who like up until this point has been sort of relegated to like one or two products within like the Oribe brand, which is mostly catering to like non curly, wavy, kinky hair. You know, I think that that would be smart, but let's see. And also like tools for curly hair and like also accessories for braids. Like you go, I always wonder where people get their accessories. Like when you see beads on braids and stuff, because when you go to the beauty supply, it has, it's almost like all of the accessories there feel like. Annie: The same across the board, like no matter what shop you go to, like you go and [00:37:00] like in the same way that you go and there's like soon cheap products at all the CVS and target and there's not a ton of variety and they also seen like little girl coded a lot of them. Yeah, so I wonder if she anyway, and the teaser video, she had a lot of like, braid style. So I'm wondering if she's doing like, special rubber bands or special, like, barrettes or beads or whatever. And I think that would be really cool. I hope so. Nick: So the other thing that I was thinking about related to celebrity brands was I saw a headline that Travis Barker has launched a new brand and it's called Barker Canico. It's cannabis stuff. And I was like, you know what? We don't give enough credit to this strategy in celebrity brands of just keep on trying. Maybe something will work. Yeah, you mean, you mean the next Pushbox? Yeah, but [00:38:00] like, he just like keeps on launching new brands and like, all he needs is just like a simple square space and Jog my memory, what else did Travis Barker launch? He launched, he launched Tattoo Aftercare. He launched, I believe he launched skincare, um, and now he's launching cannabis and it's like kind of, you know, maybe like, he's just sort of like not too concerned with any one of these different things. He like does it for, they do photo shoots every day of their lives for their social media anyway. So like, what's just like another, you know, they're already paying for the production. They might as well just like fit in the product. They have a square space. Maybe one of these are gonna take up, Annie: this makes me, this makes me believe in socialism. Like I do think that in order to start a business, you should have to go to like a regulatory agency. It could just be us and, and we have to approve like, okay, yes, there, there should be a brand here. Like there should be a whole company making. Products. [00:39:00] Like doing this thing like this makes, there should be at least 5,000 of this thing in the world. I think that you should have to get approval for that instead of like just getting bored one day and having people, you know, come over to your Calabasas compound and pitch you an idea for a cannabis brand. And you say like, yo, let's do it. Nick: When's the photo shoot? Yeah, like I'm just looking up for at a website that is all the Kardashian Jenner brands. They're so Dash, Arthur George, Kylie Cosmetics, KKW, KKW Fragrance, Good American, Skims, Kylie Skin, Kylie Baby, Poosh, Kylie Swim, 818 Tequila, Skin, Sky Partners, Kylie Swim, Glamini, Glow Beverages, Safely, Kai, Annie: Kai, then we, yeah, Kai, Nick: hold on, I don't know, I think they're just sort of, I think They've learned to sort of like, it's, is it, is this a Buddhist idea of just like not being attached to anything? And they're just like, you know what? [00:40:00] Try it. Annie: Kylie Swim. It has 900. Their last post was June 1st, 2022. Nick: Kylie Swim? Yeah. That's so wild. What happened to Dash? Annie: Well, Dash, Dash was a store, right? So that can close. I'm okay with Dash closing. It didn't, it wasn't its own, like, brand, was it? Nick: Oh, did you know that there was, did you know there was Chroma Beauty with a K? Launched in 2012 as an exclusive line on Elta, but then the products were quickly pulled from shelves because several brands sued Chroma Beauty for copyright infringement. They didn't have the Annie: right people. Nick: Well, Kimoji, Arthur George Socks, remember Annie: those? Okay, Kai posted six days ago. I don't know. I don't feel great about Kai. I don't know if it's going to be around much longer. Nick: Well, probably because like, fashion isn't a good business. [00:41:00] Annie: No. I would hate doing stuff in different sizes. Nick: It's just that we're also, like, it's just, it's too much, the juice isn't worth the squeeze. But Annie: what about, what about Skims? Kylie saw Kim over there with Skims and was like, I can do that. And was like, I want that. Sweats and tees. I don't know, Kylie. I think she, I think Timmy, I don't know if Timmy's a good, good for Kai. Travis Nick: Barker's brands, oh, oh my god. He has a brand called Stars and Straps. Annie: Are those guitar straps? No, it's like a Hypebeast brand. Oh, he has a brand called Buster and Punch. It blurs the lines between music, fashion, design, and creativity. I love a description of a brand that burns, blurs the lines. That's what. Nick: He did, he has Travis Weber, Canna Co.[00:42:00] Oh, he also just launched,, 4, 000 long sleeve shirts and he has a brand called don't trust anyone. I mean, it's, you could, you could literally give yourself a migraine trying to understand any of this. Anyway, can we move on? Yeah, let's go. Our old friend, James Pescius, the hairstylist, um, launched his online. James, we met James when. Uh, he would like become the hottest new hairstylist editorial hairstylist. Annie: It was definitely like an HR issue if HR existed, if woke HR existed back then, like we would not be allowed to talk about James Precious in the way that we did. Nick: Because we were like, he's so hot. Annie: It was like the whole thing and like in the office, like if you mentioned James Precious, everybody in the office would be like, we'd be like, everybody's like, God, he's so hot. And then Ben Gorham too. We'd be like, [00:43:00] get that hot photo of Ben Gorham up. If we had to like do a social media post about a guy. Nick: Literally. Um, but James Precious just launched his own line of hair care and his angle is. At least for his main two products, a shampoo and conditioner, they're water free, they're tablets. It's called Blue, B L U, and Green. And I think I should order it and just find out for myself. But my main questions are like, when you're dealing with tablets that come in like a little box, is the idea that like, before you get in the shower, you bring one tablet. With you because you can't keep a box of tablets that dissolve in water inside the shower Annie: They come in a cardboard box. They are Nick: like a tin. Annie: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, you're Nick: right You're still like if a little bit of water gets in it turns into one big glob Annie: of [00:44:00] shampoo Even if it's even if it gets like a little bit of humidity in any sort of packaging You're gonna turn to like let's Nick: keep it in the bedroom Basically, so you have to bring one tablet in And then, I don't know, like, I guess you have to wash your hair first. Because, I don't know, what if you want to condition it too? You have to bring a shampoo tablet and conditioner tablet. I don't know where you put the conditioner tablet while you're doing the shampoo so that it doesn't get wet and sort of dissolve on its own. I just, I, I don't, I, I'm gonna buy it. You know what, I should shut the F up and just buy it and then try it. That's what I'm gonna do right Annie: now. I know, I, I'm, I, it's, I've had to bite my tongue and not be a hater on this. hold your haterism. Like I have for the dental brand that I sent you, that is like very much trying to be like the byrito of, uh, tooth care. And it's like really hard to watch. [00:45:00] They like take themselves so seriously. It's like, so fashion it's. It's too much, but I haven't spoken about it because I don't want to be so elevated. Not everything needs to be so elevated. Like we have to have a little bit of a sense of humor. We have to have like a little bit of self awareness. Like, they're literally like, they're literally like, this is like Santal flavored mouthwash. It's like, gross. Nick: Damn. I think that's the last story of the week. Do we have, what are our products of the week? Oh, I have one. Annie: I have one too. Okay. Mine is a food product. And it is a protein powder, which I'm so embarrassed to admit that I use protein powder, but, you know, I'm trying to get into top form. And[00:46:00] you have to have a high protein, low calorie diet to do that. And so I ordered, or I went to the health food store across the street and they had this plant based protein powder, which sounded like the right thing to do called Truvani. And the flavor I got on accident was vanilla chai, and it is so fucking good. You need to do it's protein. Yeah, it's powder and all you need to do is put one scoop in your Vitamix ice and a little bit of oat milk. And it's, the flavor is really good. And I tried the chocolate and it's terrible. and I don't like fake foods, like, I don't like protein powders and energy bars and stuff like that. So it's really saying something that I will drink. Where do you buy it? I buy it at the store across the street, but you can also get it on true Vani. com. Nick: Okay. Okay. Mine. Long time listeners will [00:47:00] know that I'm always that since Tom Ford discontinued it's bronzing gel. I have. They're in scrambling for something. I really liked the Jones road bronzing gel, but I think I found something that I might like a lot better. What is milk makeups, bionic bronzer. And what I like about it a little bit better is that the bronzing gel from Jones road is a little bit more makeupy. And the bionic bronzer from Milk is a little bit, a little bit more sheer. And so it blend with a little bit better into skin. And it just gives you that like, kind of like just a little glow. There's no sparkle, there's no shine. It just looks really natural. It doesn't get into your pores or into, I don't know. It's like, you can kind of see. Annie: Do [00:48:00] you slap it all over your face or do you target? I do Nick: dots and then I rub in the dots. Annie: Okay. Question. Is this a new launch or is this a, I Nick: don't think so. I think it's just like something that's existed. But I'm going to tell you and the color. It is 36 or 32 depending on where you buy it. That's a lot of money. Bionic is a whole sub brand that they have. Annie: The color is time travel that I use. It is. Considered light bronze and it has hyaluronic acid in it, LOL, and it's not new. It also has snow mushroom and reishi mushroom, sounds delicious. But it has a 4. 6 sephora. com rating. And I like it. [00:49:00] you're the expert on this. Every, every week you have a new bra. I know, I know. I just, I'm always looking for it. Have you heard of the brand Salty Face? No, that sounds like F rate sushi. I know but it's a tanning brand and they make a gel. I thought of you and I saw it because it feels like like a very sheer there used to be a girl on product that was like water, like bronzing water and there's no sparkle. Nick: Oh, its, it's a soft tanning brand. Salty face. Annie: Yeah. But I don't think that the, I think this product is a makeup product, not a soft tan brand. The tanning water. Nick: Mm. Annie: Let me get back to you. Nick: We'll, oh, it develops gradual and Annie: seamlessly. Oh, okay. Nevermind. I thought that, I thought they had just like a makeup product that was a, like a Nick: bronzer. They do. Or liquid bronzer. Just a thought. I'll try it. Listen, I'll try it. I'll try anything. Don't Annie: buy it. Their PR emailed me. Nick: Really? Okay. Will you get me [00:50:00] some? Yeah. Listen to our bonus episode. We're a little bit more risque, more unfiltered. patreon. com slash eyewitness beauty.We also put all of our video, content on that channel exclusively. And we know who's like a member. And so we're much more likely to be like responding to questions from people we know are just supporting us on Patreon. We've never been paid for anything that we've said on this podcast. And we can do that because for the first year and a half, we spent thousands of our own dollars. Now we're just, just inking by with the money we get on Patreon so that we don't have to pay out of our pocket to make this podcast. Wouldn't it be lovely if we could, you know, even buy this fucking We both make up bronzer. Yeah. You Annie: can barely afford Nick: bronzing gel. [00:51:00] Yeah, I can barely afford bronzing gel. So I'm gonna spend the money from Patreon, you know, on like a Gucci bag. I'm gonna buy beauty products and talk about them and try them. And I'm Annie: gonna buy above the neck accessories. So, please, Nick: just Please, do it. Patreon. com slash eyewitness beauty. Our podcast is produced by Jonathan Kornman, a friend of a pod, and it is edited by AJ Mosley, hired eyewitness beauty. com and me at eyewitnessbeauty. com naked eyewitnessbeauty. com get at us, support us on Patreon. We'll see you next week. Bye.