PB EP 3 paul edit #2 - JN shoutout ===

Paul Adelstein: [00:00:00] Hi folks. Welcome back to prison breaking with Sarah and Paul in no particular

Sarah Wayne Callies: order. We're equal partners here. We both feel weird about our names coming first, so I

Paul Adelstein: keep saying Paul and Sarah. You were the female lead and you were number three on the call sheet, so I think it's more important. I was not

Sarah Wayne Callies: number three on the call sheet.

I was way down the call sheet.

Paul Adelstein: I was number 11, which I always said was two number ones. This is not something we should spend our energy

Sarah Wayne Callies: on. No. Okay. Um, yeah, nobody has a lot of energy these days. The world is nuts. But today we have our first guest, which I'm actually very, very excited about. His name is Brad Turner and he directed the episode that Paul and I have quite literally just watched.

And it is a, [00:01:00] um, it's a brutal episode. It starts with toes getting cut off. It has a crushing scene between Dominic and Marshall. Mm hmm. Um, and Paul does some dastardly deeds

in

Paul Adelstein: the woods. Yeah, I, uh, our first, uh, gun death. And our first, uh, my first, uh, Kellerman body count, which, which, uh, Which does rack up.

It racks up real quick. Very, very quickly. Also, I want to give a shout out to John Nunziato who designed our logo. What he did for us is incredible. The logo is so cool. And it's going to make for great merch and great prizes for our contest. And he put up with a little bit of actor neuroses while making our logo.

And it was kind of better than we dreamed it could be. So thank you, John. Let's give you a little snapshot of what was going on in the world and put [00:02:00] this show in context in that world. Calestine Index. This is the Calestine Index. Uh, this week's Calestine Index. The episode was called Cell Test. It premiered at 9 p.

m. On September 5th, 2005, it was written by Paul Shearing and Michael Pavone, although it only said Michael Pavone on screen, uh, directed as we mentioned by our first guest, uh, the one and only Brad Turner.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Uh, okay. So blurb on the episode, two steps forward, one step back, uh, which is also a Paula Abdul song.

Um, you get bonus points if you were thinking about that too. No, because that song was

Paul Adelstein: not, it was actually called, that song was actually called Opposites

Sarah Wayne Callies: Attract. Fine, but it was also her in an animated cat, right? If I remember correctly. DJ

Paul Adelstein: Scat

Sarah Wayne Callies: Cat. In the DJ Scat Cat, who is undoubtedly not a prison bandit.

And I believe

Paul Adelstein: Arsenio Hall was also in that video, but I may be conflating things.

Sarah Wayne Callies: All right, go on. Okay, so two steps forward, one step back, Michael gets a [00:03:00] brootsie on his side, John a brootsie, John a brootsie, John a brootsie, John a brootsie, and proves Sucre's trustworthiness. But then, loses a valuable piece of his plan, which is Sucre, and we meet Haywire for the first time,

Paul Adelstein: which is amazing.

The show was up against college football again on ABC. This was Florida State versus Miami. Florida State won in a squeaker, 10 to 7. A rerun of Two and a Half Men on CBS, and on NBC, a rerun of Las Vegas. The lead in, meaning the show that was on in the slot before us, on Fox, was Nanny 9 1 1, which was sort of appropriate.

We're not. I don't really. Maybe not. I don't know.

Sarah Wayne Callies: We're not nannies. Also happening on September 5th, 2005, uh, U. S. President George W. Bush nominated Judge John Roberts to the Supreme Court. He would later win the nomination and become Chief Justice. Also Apple announced, or this is two days later on September 7th, Apple announced the iPad Nano.

Those little [00:04:00] itty bitty things. Yes. The little bitty ones. Like what? Like a thousand songs or something? Something. I mean, they were incredible. I think I got one as a wrap gift, possibly. I

Paul Adelstein: got one on a wrap gift from private practice. It was the camera, it was the camera one. It was the one that you could shoot video on.

It was insane. Well, I just don't

Sarah Wayne Callies: have that. Um, yeah, I've still got my little thing. Yeah.

Paul Adelstein: Um, also on this day, Jerry Rice, hall of fame, wide receiver for the, uh, San Francisco 49ers. And I believe the Oakland Raiders at one point announced his retirement and Paul McCartney released chaos and creation in the backyard, which won widespread critical acclaim.

It was nominated for several grand.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, and I have two pieces of, I suppose memorabilia is a strong word for it, but, um, I found these two things when I was going through. I have this giant milk crate of stuff from, Season one. It's mostly scripts, but I have it. I'm showing this to Paul right now so he can see it.

This is the TV Guide. You can hear me flipping the pages. Um, I'll put pictures of [00:05:00] this on our Instagram and stuff so you can see it. It is the TV Guide from this week, September 4th to 10th, 2005. It has who on the cover, Paul? Tom Brady. Tom Brady. Um, it also covers The O. C., The Biggest Loser, Night Stalker, Emmys Countdowns, a sense of what was going on there.

And this is amazing. Check this out, Paul.

Paul Adelstein: Oh, wow. Don't miss the best new drama on TV, Prison Break. That is a full page ad in black and white.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yep. And that was a quote from the, what, Toronto something, right?

Paul Adelstein: Toronto star. And it's, uh, Lincoln. Uh, Lincoln, Michael, Veronica, and Dr. Singleton. I can't believe I actually

Sarah Wayne Callies: made the, uh, It's pretty cool.

Piece number two. This is inside TV magazine, which I gotta be perfectly honest, I didn't realize was a thing. Nope. On the cover. is Eva Longoria, Lindsay Lohan, Jessica Simpson. So, okay, so they're all on the cover along with, uh, [00:06:00] Grey's Anatomy. And so this is part of what was going on then. But this is crazy to me.

The show had been on the air one week. And look at this. There's a two page article about it. Inside TV goes behind the scenes of one of the year's most buzzed about new shows. There's some photos of the show and us again, I'll put all this stuff up on our. Uh, Prison Break Podcast Instagram. Um, quick blurb, it says, Think Shawshank Redemption meets 24 with equal parts heart thrills and family drama, not to mention two hot and oh so talented stars.

They mean Paul and me. Um, no wonder the show is getting tons of hype. We're all feeling a bit under pressure, admits Dominic 35, but executive producer Dom Pruess tells Inside TV she's confident, she's confident the suspense will keep viewers coming back. It's a life and death situation that appeals to people, uh, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Um, but what, what's [00:07:00] surprising to me is the pace of the publicity machine and all of that, like all that had aired. was the double billing of the pilot and episode one. And the very next week in print, they're hyping the show as one of the season's quote unquote breakout hits. That's just a strange pace to me because now you have to air like two seasons before anybody bothers reviewing a show.

And listen, for all I know, both of those publications are owned by Rupert Murdoch, who also also used to own Fox. Anyway, I will put pictures of these, uh, fine publications up on our social media, uh, if you want to. Check out our photos. Our Instagram is at prison break podcast.

Paul Adelstein: Now, please Listen to the rewatch if you want.

We'd love for you to watch the whole thing with us, which is in our bonus material

Brad Turner: This is dirty [00:08:00] So dirty

Paul Adelstein: He's saying like infection

Sarah Wayne Callies: dirty No, like something's rotten in Denmark, dirty, and he stepped on gardening shears. Have

Paul Adelstein: you ever not gotten a random call from a prison? Because I've gotten multiple. Multiple. Please tell me that's a joke. No, it's not a joke. What?

Sarah Wayne Callies: It's not a joke. You get multiple calls from prison? I have,

Paul Adelstein: yes. I don't think they're specifically for me. I think they're literally random reach outs.

I believe I'm, um, about to kill my first person ever, uh, as an actor. And with that we'll be right back. All right. Welcome back, everyone. Um, now, we're going to discuss the episode that we just watched, but it's not just going to be Sarah and [00:09:00] I babbling on incoherently about little details nobody cares about.

But we will have somebody who really can speak to the whole thing, who is Brad Turner. Um, he directed this episode. He, uh, directed this episode. He directed one of the final episodes of season four, The Old Ball and Chain. And he directed part one of the final break. So he is very much part of the. prison break family.

Brad also won an Emmy for his work directing 24, and he also won a Peabody award for a limited series called Human Cargo. He's directed on Homeland, Hawaii Five 0, Psyche, Stargate, over 200 episodes of television, which is extraordinary. It is our honor to welcome Brad

Brad Turner: Turner. Well, my name is Brad Turner, and I directed episode 3, Prison Break.

I directed, ironically, the The second episode, when it went to series, and the second last episode. Oh, yep. That's right. The studio, uh, [00:10:00] asked me to come to Chicago and direct the first episode after the pilot, but it was episode three. Yeah. It was in episode two, it was episode three, but I think we shot three first.

Oh. Something, something like that. We shot three

Sarah Wayne Callies: before Mike Watkins episode.

Paul Adelstein: That makes sense now in, in retrospect. That actually

Brad Turner: kinda does. I think that's what we did. If not, yeah, I'm, I'm positive. That's what it was because Robby Greenberg was a DP and um. Robby Greenberg was a DP? And I'd never worked with Robby before and uh, we were really setting the tone after the pilot.

Yeah. And, uh, we arrived and the most interesting setup, and I don't know, uh, how it went on from there, but they literally had an office in sort of downtown Chicago. They had a studio in like a studio complex. And the west side where the, yeah, where the, um, the prison cells were being built, [00:11:00] then they had Joliet Joliet way out in Chicago land somewhere.

And the first thing, because I was a producer director at that point, the first thing I said is, you know, you got to put one of these three things together because this is not going to, this is going to be very difficult to navigate. It's so interesting. I never. We never shot in the stage because the stage wasn't ready.

Right. So we shot that episode with all practical cells and all. So that

Sarah Wayne Callies: giant shot going up like three rows of cells. Was

Paul Adelstein: real. That was real. Cause I remember Sarah, they never built until season three, I think, they didn't build a prison that was that elaborate, frankly, that had levels like that. So that's why I thought, oh, this must be actually Juliet.

Brad Turner: Wow, it was it was we we literally we went to the office Prepped the [00:12:00] show and then basically, literally never saw the office again. Never saw the office again. Sure. 'cause then we, we were off, Robbie and I were off shooting in, I think we shot a couple of scenes in downtown Chicago with me. Beautifully.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, yeah. With me and with uh, but also

Brad Turner: with the team.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Yeah. The Robin and Sebastian. Uh, yeah, the Robin, the Veronica Sebastian breakup scene was gorgeous on the river bridges

Paul Adelstein: in. That we shot somewhere in, uh, not as easy to find in Chicago as you think, somewhere in a kind of forest preserve area, which was pretty far out on the west side when I, when I kill, uh, Tisha played by Adina.

Yeah. Um, and that was, I remember that being a, almost a full day. No, it couldn't have been a half day, right? Because you're definitely fighting the light, but it was, it was a move

Brad Turner: for sure.

Paul Adelstein: Um, and just so our, just for our listeners, um, one of the things that Brad did with that's incredible is as we talked about in our [00:13:00] first episode, when you shoot a pilot, especially in those days, and they bring somebody like Brad Ratner and we had 20 days, 25 days to shoot.

We had 20 million. We had this huge feature DP. It was like shooting a feature. And then they say, Oh, the show's picked up. Here's episode two, you have eight days. You have a third of the money. And it needs to look and feel as good as the pilot did. So it is always an incre I think there's more pressure on that episode than even on shooting a pilot, in my experience.

It's always like, how is this show gonna work? Are we gonna be able to pull this off? And it always falls usually on the director's shoulders to figure out if it can be done or not. And you certainly did it. We kept saying while we were watching, look at that beautiful shot. It's beautiful. Look at that great scene.

Look at this cool coverage. So you clearly got it done. Do you remember How much prep you did, how much time we had to shoot, do you remember any of those things?

Brad Turner: Yeah, the one thing that I think [00:14:00] that helped me a lot was, um, our showrunner Joel Cernau in, uh, on 24, um, was working on the pilot with one of our editors, and before I left for Chicago he called me in and, um, and asked me to take a look and, um, at what he was, what what some of his ideas were about.

Possibly helping the show make it a little more interesting and we sat and looked at the cut and and sort of Talked about what we thought we could strengthen and what could be better What could be work more better visually and and things like that and and I think that in a lot of ways I brought I I feel like I brought a little bit of the sensibility and the pacing from 24 to Prison Break.

Totally different show, but I think the reason that [00:15:00] Joel was looking at it was just to try to bring some of that energy to the show. And so that helped a lot because when I got to Chicago, I had that in mind. And, uh, and you know, it's, it's really interesting. When you do a pilot, you, I mean, it's, it's, it's literally, I always say it's got some explaining to do.

Yeah. Literally, it's one hour of explaining what, tending to do for the, you know, the number of episodes you're doing after it. What's the

Sarah Wayne Callies: world? What's the pace? Who are the people?

Brad Turner: What's the problem? Yes, exactly. But you know, the, that. What's the opportunity you have in front of you is you can second guess everything the pilot director did.

So you actually, you have the advantage of seeing it on its feet and it's, and you get a pilot script. It's just, it feels like a lot of pipelining and a lot of explanation and, and all that stuff. And you're trying to make that interesting, but. Literally, once that's set [00:16:00] in the audience's mind, then you can play, then you're like, you're off.

You just find out what character is more interesting. The writers immediately go in that direction. They immediately say what the strengths were. So in my opinion, there's never been a bad pilot shot. What what it is, is the. It's what we do to support the vision of that pilot that makes it work. It's like what the, it's the next director, like you said, the next director is really important because they have to take the strengths of what.

What's happening in the pilot and that goes to the writing to the writers take the strength of the pilot what happened in the pilot and they move on with that and just make and that's exactly what Paul did with the show. I mean, he, he, he, you know, I were sitting in the lobby of the Drake Hotel. I met Paul for the first time and he's going, you know, this was a feature.

Yeah. And Dana decided to make it a TV series. And he says, I don't [00:17:00] know, um, how to make a TV series. We're writing it. I have a writer's room and we're making it. We're making it. But he said, this is a feature. And I said, but Paul, that's the That's what's great about it. If it was a feature, that's what's great about it because that's, you know, back then that's what was television was trying to do is be a feature, you know, uh, and it's, uh, now features are trying to be television.

It's odd thing that's happening. But yeah, but the most important thing I said to Paul is, listen, we can do this so it can happen. He said, well. Uh, you know, at the end of 10 episodes, uh, the guys are going to get out and I said, Oh, okay. And, um, I remember like two months later, he said, you know what, they're, they're out episode four.

I don't know what I'm going to do. And I thought that was like one of the best stories. It's like now the, now the. The network wants them out. They don't want to spend a whole season with them behind bars. One thing I can really speak to is, they [00:18:00] cast exactly the right people to do this show. I mean, that was one of the things about the entire cast.

Um, everyone that was involved in this show, I was always so shocked and amazed at how good everybody was. After seeing the pilot a couple of times, especially with Joel, I knew the actors were great. And so one of the things that always works for me is bringing respect into any situation. So the first thing I said to Dominic, uh, is you get, you guys.

You and Wentworth are amazing like it's some this in this show is going to do very well And what we have to do is we just have to really Find a way to keep the tension high, because that's what's working. The tension between you two, the tension, uh, about, and, and when I, when I went to the prison, I said, make no mistake of it, one of the biggest characters in this thing is this prison.

Yes. This [00:19:00] prison is a huge character, and don't, don't ever think that it's not playing into what's happening. Because you guys, we all go home to the hotels or your apartments or whatever, every night. You guys are living here. This is where you live. You have to keep relating to this as your home. And, uh, remember that you can't do anything here in this prison without somebody watching.

You can't do a, you can't, you can't gesture to somebody in a where they don't analyze that gesture as being something. So just be aware of it, you know, in, in, in your body type. And then from that point on, As a director, you get, I wouldn't call it respect, but you get, you know, this person's paying attention to what is working.

And then we're going to just, we're going to try to go to that level. We're going to try to, um, be the best that we can be because he's already identified, he or she's already [00:20:00] identified that I know what I'm doing. That's already there. It's a matter of Being able to make them look and be as good as they can be, that's what I'm there for.

I don't, I don't care what people think of me. But what's important is your, that this, this character is what everyone's watching to move the story along and to, and to, and to, um, feel what they're feeling. But that was easy in that show. The way we

Paul Adelstein: think about theater and film and And I would say pilots work this way too, is that you have a director and you have a writer and you have actors and they're crafting this thing together a lot of times.

But in television, um, because directors become guests a lot of times, they come in when something is established or they come in after a pilot, even when something's established and the actors have been living with a certain character and with the dynamics for a Sometimes years, and then a director will come in and it's a complicated thing to come into a dynamic.

You don't know, as Brad was saying, but just dealing with personalities, but [00:21:00] then even creatively, you know, if you, if there's a big character turn in an episode, let's say, and the director's responsible for telling that story and the actors like struggling with it or doesn't like it or what have you, it can be tricky because the actor has been kind of the, um, You know, the guardian, if you will, of this character for so long that they're kind of the expert on it.

And that can just be, I don't know, it can be a point of

Brad Turner: tension. I just know. The way I handle those situations is Pretty clear you you I think you have to when you come in as a visiting director when you do anything you have to come In with the knowledge that the actors are thinking what you're thinking It's and I when I say it with Paul's thinking and that is that oh, here's a new person coming in It's gonna you know change things around So the first thing you have to do to build a relationship is is acknowledge how good the thing is up till now Which is what I was talking about earlier and that that If [00:22:00] anything, I'm here to make my story work.

And if the story does include a big character swing like that, what I do in pre production is talk to the showrunner and say, Listen, is this person aware that this That they're going to do this big character swing and if you talk to that person about it Because it's a concern for me because I'm sure that actor has a much better handle on the character than I do And I need you two guys to connect and make sure that you have talked this through and I if I could be included on That that really appreciate that and that's how I would I would handle that situation And I have in the past identified things like that, because I do believe that all the actors are custodians of their own character.

And the character, listen, we've proven this through the history of television and film. There's been millions of characters [00:23:00] written. For each of those characters, there's a million possibilities of people to play those characters. There's a million different ways that character would have been played.

Another person had played that role. We hear these stories all the time. So that, if you go backwards in time, you go, okay, I get it. This character now is going to be this person. It's not a, that person has to move my story along. And, and not know things in advance. Not get ahead of themselves in terms of what they know and what they don't know, even though they've read the script.

But, the way that person's playing the role, the emotions they bring to that role is going to be their own. And I'm not the custodian of that, they are. And that's what's important when you're going to come into these situations, is you understand that You feel very strongly about something. Yeah. You feel very strong.

The way you [00:24:00] do that, the way you make that work, it's going to be up to you. Not me. I do know that I need to feel like you feel strongly about it, but I don't need to tell you how to do that because guess what? You, you may have a whole different way of doing it. And you know what? As long as I feel it.

Then it works. And that's the most important thing. And, and where you will, you know, I've, I've often said that, but it's like a pendulum. You go in, everybody gives you the benefit of the doubt. This is negative, this is positive. As soon as you start saying things that get into character, you go into the negative area.

But as soon as you get something good, it'll swing back to the middle again. You have to play that. You have to be well aware of that. If you put your foot in your mouth, You've got to work to get it back. And that's the way it works. It's like, you never know. You always run into people who are. Going to be opposed to you right from the beginning and then you just have to work So so maybe you're here with some of the actors you got to pull yourself back to here and you find a way you [00:25:00] just have to find a way to do that and luckily on Prison break I'd never had to do that because I always felt and maybe it was because it was very early in in the go You know that we were only at episode 3 and probably just starting the series There was a lot felt like a movie it felt like we were you know, really still working on Who, who everybody was, but that was not my job.

My job was to make the show, um, give the show some pace, give us some visual style and really support how good these actors were and how great these characters were coming across the screen.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, and you're shooting a 54 page episode. So, I mean, when you got into the edit and PS just for, you know, the The geeks out there like us, you're shooting it on film.

Um, so every take costs something. Uh, as opposed to, you know, our sort of eternal, um, cards these [00:26:00] days where you can sort of keep going. But, but when you got into the edit, I mean, I imagine a show like this, Paul's writing's pretty tight. And there's a lot of, you need to know this in order to move on to this.

This is a critical piece of information, but you're also shooting for a network. So you've got exactly 44 minutes and not a second longer, more or less. You have a 54 page script. Do you remember what that edit was like? I mean, did it come in, you know, eight minutes long and you got to figure out how to,

Brad Turner: You know, I shoot when I shoot, I shoot every scene.

Like it was going to be in the movie and I shoot every scene like it was its own movie. And, uh, I make it really difficult for the showrunner to take anything. And, uh, and it's like, it's, it's like so many times I've, I've had people say to me. I just love it the way it is, but it's, you know, eight minutes long.

Uh, I think we can find it, but I'm, it's going to hurt. And it's going to, or they'll, or they'll say it'll be eight minutes long and then we'll get it down to three minutes long and they'll go, they have this [00:27:00] three minutes is going to hurt. And nine times out of 10, nine times, 10 out of 10. What's really comes to issue with me is it's usually stuff that identifies a movie from a TV episode.

It's like. That long moment where you ask somebody a question and they're thinking about it. In TV they'll answer you right away. All that air goes out.

Paul Adelstein: All the air. Exactly. But I will say this, one of the, one of the, one of our favorite scenes rewatching that episode was a scene where LJ, who's Lincoln's son, is, is, is, um, Mandated by his probation officer or whatever it is he got into trouble to go to prison and spend time with his father and there's this beautiful scene that really doesn't advance plot per se other than Lincoln has decided he's going to want LJ to be there at his execution because he said he doesn't want anybody there and they hold hands through the grate and even at the end of it, First of all, it's beautifully acted.

It's [00:28:00] beautifully shot. There's reflection on both sides, which Sarah and I were talking about. It's never easy to accomplish. Actors have heads in one spot and all that. I particularly noted at the end, there's got to be a four second shot. That's a wide shot. And it's just them with their hands touching and not talking.

And normally in TV, that is something that's like one of the first things to go, but it's exactly what you're saying is that that is a pure texture tone feeling moment that, you know, could have easily gone away and it's really beautifully done. So that means that you actually. You know, it found the time.

Yeah, he found the time for it and it really

Brad Turner: worked. It exactly goes back to my point where I said, this three, these three minutes are going to be really tough is because those are the scenes that of course are identified by the people who aren't paying attention. But, you know, normally the creatives, which would be, you know, the show runner and yeah.

A [00:29:00] lot of times the editor and the director, of course, you're going, you can't cut that because it just works. And as long as you push hard enough, they'll find another place to, to cut, to make it work. And, and in that case, it happened because again, Shoot every scene like you're going to use it. I want to

Paul Adelstein: ask you a couple of spe we have, we wrote a couple of specific things down we wanted to ask you about, but I'll just, like, Final thing on that is that what's smart about that, bringing LJ in in that way, so early, and saying there's a real stakes here, that this kid's going to go off the rails without his father, that he's invested in it, that you see Lincoln softening a little bit, I think it really pays dividends for the for the stakes of saving this guy's life in

Sarah Wayne Callies: theory, it's the reason the show matters.

Why do you save Lincoln? You save Lincoln because he's this man.

Paul Adelstein: And we kind of haven't seen it until that moment. Really. We've just seen it. Not much. Yeah. So a couple of questions. Um, your episode introduces the character of haywire played by [00:30:00] Silas Weir Mitchell. Um, were you involved in the Do you remember, were you involved in casting him?

He ends up being, I don't know if he was a regular, but he was around

Brad Turner: for a season. No, uh, because again, it was, we were focused so much on, like, I remember how there were so many production problems because they didn't have the set ready, uh, uh, to shoot in. And I had to shoot all our cells. Oh my goodness.

So no

Paul Adelstein: walls move. No

Brad Turner: walls move. So I remember visiting the set, and um, Robbie's going, this isn't going to be ready by the time we're finished. And they said, sadly, we are a little delayed, so it probably isn't. And Robbie said, so do you want to hold the scenes? And I said, no, I'd like to shoot it practically.

Because I think that in a lot of ways, Being locked in that prison as, as the actors is better for even, it just feels a bit less, less [00:31:00] theatrical when you're actually in the prison, even though it's compromising maybe the lighting and, and, uh, shots and, uh, you know, and. that camera angles. I was like, I was the sense of

Paul Adelstein: claustrophobia.

I mean, the scenes in like when Sucre and Bellic and Michael and another guard are standing in that cell, there's no cheating. There's, you see everybody, you see shoulders, you see the back of heads. There's no clean cheat. Like the wall wasn't here. You really feel like you're inside the thing. You cannot.

Yeah. For the audience that's listening normally with something like that, you can move a wall. Therefore there's room for the crew.

Brad Turner: Yeah. And then also when you're in prison, you are brushing shoulders with other prisoners and you're moving through those doorways and there's no place to breathe. And a lot of it felt like that.

I mean, I have this incredible story. Um, I'll, I'll, I constantly tell people this story. So we're at Joliet and we're shooting a [00:32:00] long day. I remember Robbie and I. We're being driven by the first AD, I think, and we jumped in the car and we're driving and we get halfway back to Chicago and Robby gets a phone call on his cell phone.

He said, the prison's locked down. And I said, what? He said, It's it's locked down that it's a it's a statewide prison lockdown so even though Joliet was Decommissioned it was still technically part of the prison system. Oh my god Illinois and apparently was a statewide, Illinois lockdown because there was a breach of security So literally they they locked the crew in the prison Shut up, it was me Robbie, my first AD, maybe a couple, but maybe the sound department got out of there, but even the caterers, Oh my God.

And I believe, and [00:33:00] I want to get this story correct, but it was at least four hours. Oh my goodness. They were locked down in there. That's a lot of overtime. Yes, exactly. And like that's, then Fox production went crazy. But the interesting thing was, apparently. Somebody told me, and this may not be true, but I was told later that an extra or somebody had wandered into a room.

Oh no. And so it was us that triggered the alarm. Oh shit. Into a room that was still under Surveillance or still had the, because

Sarah Wayne Callies: we didn't have the

Brad Turner: whole prison, right? But it wasn't, there was no prisoners there. There was just no, no, no, but there were

Paul Adelstein: wait. So we, not only was our crew locked in Joliet prison that we triggered a statewide lockdown.

Brad Turner: Yes, because that's apparently that was the policy that everyone maximum security facility was locked down. They just locked them all down until they figured out where it [00:34:00] was.

Sarah Wayne Callies: From Fox, fake Fox River from our prison to the one that they had built across the street. There was an underground tunnel system.

And so I remember somebody telling me that halfway through and I was like, sorry. So just checking in as the only woman for a hundred miles in any direction, it seems that's inaccurate. But that's how it felt. I was like, there is somewhere here, a trap door that if it opened, yeah, is discharging a real live.

convicted felon. They were like, that's right. I was like, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

Brad Turner: That's

Sarah Wayne Callies: right. Um, that's a great story. That's a really great story. Okay. So I will, because then fast forwarding, I think we had to let you go to 24 where you had this giant deal. So we didn't get you back. Uh, later in the first season, which would have been cool, but we didn't, we didn't get you back in the second season when the show moved to Dallas.

We didn't get you back in the third season, which Paul and I weren't in, but then the show moves to LA and we get you [00:35:00] back in season four at the very end and what we thought was the very end. Um, it turns out there was a coda a few years later, but what was, what's it like returning to a show where. You know, I mean, you're coming in post, you know, the show hadn't aired when you directed your episode with us.

You're coming back post a lot of deaths on the show. The cast has changed. There's some new faces. Fickner was with us. Uh, you had Rappaport, I think, I don't know if he was still alive during your episodes. Right. Jodie Lynn O'Keefe. I mean, what's that like? Kind of returning to the scene of the crime,

Brad Turner: so to speak.

It was amazing again, because your cast was so fabulous. Sarah, uh, everybody was so great and they, and they, they were, um, they were, they acknowledged my, uh, small bit of input at the very beginning and how much they appreciated that and how much they, how much water was under the bridge since [00:36:00] then, but, but that, you know, it's that, it's that mutual respect, I think that poured through and it was, it was great.

And, I think we had the same kind of conversations. We, we, uh, put the same energy into making it as good as we could and everybody, and I never felt like anybody missed a beat. Everyone was still working as hard as they were the first time. Uh, I think in a lot of ways they were much more knowledgeable about who they were, so it made a lot easier.

And I was able to be, like, more of a pure director on that and less, less laying the groundwork and more just, let's just make this as good a finale as we can. Me and Kevin Weeks, sort of. He was, I think he was the producer director then, and Kevin and I did a lot of episodes. Kevin Hooks, sorry. Kevin Weeks is a cool tender.

Yeah.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Your Canadian is

Brad Turner: showing, Brad. Exactly. Uh, Kevin, Kevin Hooks, who, who, you know, is great because he did a couple of episodes of 24 with us. Yeah. [00:37:00] So, uh, Kevin graciously had me back and, uh, it was great because again. Everybody was just as good as they were from the beginning. I had, I remember I, the weirdest thing about coming back was like, Oh, um, just be a cotton, you know, it was a long time ago when you started this.

These guys were all new, you know, they're, they might be a little more of a handful, you know, the show did well, you know, I went. Okay. Yeah, no problem. I didn't find any of that. It was the exact opposite. I felt like I was still working with them from the third episode. It was like, like none of that warning, but that warning always comes from like first ADs and, and action managers and not, not people that are in the creative part of it.

So you, you take, You can take it for what it is and, uh, again, we're all, we're all artists. As long as we respect each other, it's always going to be great and, and the most important thing I do is focus on how I [00:38:00] can make this script and this story move and be interesting as possible. All right, Gus, we'll be right

Paul Adelstein: back.

Welcome back, everybody, to Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, I want to, uh, I want to, I know you've got a hard out, and I want to respect your time, but I do want to say, uh, that I remember you coming back for that, that episode, uh, those episodes in season four. And part of what was such a gift about it was that you did come in to make it the best show that it could be.

You came in as though it were the first show you'd ever directed. Mm hmm. Yeah. in terms of your, your, the freshness of your attitude, your respect for who we were. You know, sometimes when a show gets a little bigger, you have people who come in, um, I mean, I remember going three episodes without a note and I was like, I know I'm not this good, but you know what I mean?

Like this isn't, this isn't, I'm delivering an amazing performance. This is, you know, maybe somebody's not [00:39:00] here for performance in the same way that you were. And so I just, you know, want to offer some flowers to you, um, for showing up. You know, you didn't wave your emery around and say, I know what I'm doing.

Everybody stand in line. You treated us like we were all in it together to make something meaningful. And that was, uh, that was a beautiful thing.

Brad Turner: Well, thank you. Uh, that's what I try to do. I'm glad you identify that because that's exactly what I try to do. I have nothing but respect. I have nothing but respect for writers and actors.

I mean, I. Nothing. I mean, two things I can't do and um, I've got to say, you have to identify that as a director and what you want to do is elevate everything to make it interesting to watch and not sleepy time TV.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Well, as we let you go. I want to plug the Turner Art Gallery in Bayfield, Ontario, which is an art gallery.

Brad Turner: It doesn't exist anymore, Sarah. Oh, no! No, it doesn't exist anymore. Oh, don't plug it. Damn, Wikipedia

Sarah Wayne Callies: lied to me. I was all excited about it. Oh, man. I was all excited about [00:40:00] it. I wanted to ask you about it, but we all have to go. Um, listen, thank you so much for being with us. Oh, you're welcome. I feel like we could talk forever because I'm so curious.

I've learned a lot about directing from you, actually, in the last 45 minutes, which is marvelous. Oh, that's nice. Thank you. I'm super, super, super grateful to you.

Paul Adelstein: Yeah, ditto. And um, the respect you have for the thing that you do, but also the people you do it with, it shows in the work and it's amen. Oh, great.

And we can all take, um, in everything that we do, uh, in this Absolutely interview, that's a collaboration. And then we look forward to talking to you again when we get to Yes. Episode season four, almost the end. Yeah.

Brad Turner: almost. Yeah. Have you back. Thank you so much for having me on. Thanks for doing this.

Sarah Wayne Callies: Okay, so that concludes our first.

guest. Thank you, Brad Turner. He was amazing, by the way. And we just learned today that they just announced a Prison Break spin off. Oh, my God.

Paul Adelstein: Plot twist. You sent it to [00:41:00] me. Big plot twist. The gentleman from Mayans,

Sarah Wayne Callies: is that right? The senator from Missouri. Um, yes, I believe the showrunner creator from Mayans.

Uh, is going to do a new Prison Break something on Hulu. Uh, we know nothing about it, but it's funny timing. Um, funny haha. Or is it? Dun, dun, dun. Anyway, thank you guys so much for being with us. Let's wrap this up. Uh, our Instagram is at prison break podcast, um, or you can email us on our very own. Email site, which is, uh, prisonbreaking, one word, at caliber studio.

com. That's caliber, C A L I B E R, dash studio, singular, dot com. Um, and thank you for being with us. Please. Don't go to prison. And

Paul Adelstein: if you do, establish dominance quickly.

Brad Turner: Bye guys. Bye.[00:42:00]

Paul Adelstein: Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul is a Caliber Studio production. Your hosts have been friends, but not besties, Sarah Wayne Callis and Paul Edelstein. Our prison warden has been producer Ben Haber. Keeping us slim and trim in the prison yard has been sound designer and editor Jeff Schmidt. Keeping us up to date on the outside world is production assistant Drew Austin.

Letting the world know what's been happening to us in prison is social media manager Emma Tolkien. Our music was done by Paul Edelstein. Our prison artist, logo, and brand designer is John Nunziato and Little Big Brands. Check them out at www. littlebigbrands. com. Follow us on Instagram at Prison Break Podcast.

Email us at prisonbreakingatcaliberstudio. com and call us at 401 3P BREAK. Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul has been a Caliber Studio [00:43:00] production. Thank you for listening.