Hello and welcome to Revolutionize your love life. Do you

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Revolutionize your love life is a fortnightly podcast where you

will access the knowledge and wisdom of love experts and

relationship coaches from across the world to help you find

true fulfillment in love. I am your host, Heather Garbett.

Welcome. Hello, lovely people in search of love. I've got

a real treat for you today. I'm here with Kat

Peckett. She is a doctor in clinical psychology, a trauma

specialist and she works with people to support them in

pregnancy preparation for birth. And in the early years of

parenthood, she loves working from a biopsychosocial spiritual approach, particularly

what makes our hearts sing. She brings us joy. She

does indeed. What brings us joy? What gets in the

way of love? What gets in the way of connecting

with others where we get our energy from and what

drains us. Sometimes we need to ask the really big

questions she says, why am I here? And where am

I heading? My Freudian slip was right there. She does

bring me joy. It's been an absolute pleasure connecting with

her and it's a particular joy to me to find

somebody who is so centered in love, who has the

body of knowledge and the status of doctor that she

brings to this work and she brings to this world.

She's a gift to humanity. Hello, cat. It's lovely to

have you here. Thank you so much for having me.

It's well, it's a very lovely introduction. Thank you so

much for welcome me, welcoming me into your space and

you know, your work around love as well. You're so

welcome. So let's begin with a bit of context. Why

is are we coming together to understand trauma in the

context of relationships? Mhm Yeah. You see, I think the

conversation between us has been so interesting because both of

us are thinking about relationships and love and I love

what you're offering out there in the world for helping

people to really kind of turn inwards and think about

what it is that they're looking for in, in love

in general. And I guess the bit that I offer

out there to people in the, in our world around

love and relationship is to think about how trauma might

get in the way of us, loving a loving each

other, being able to um connect with others. And um

and often I think about that in the context of

people's early life experiences. So who was looking after them

and how did they receive the care from others? I

think attachment is a really big one in the world

of, you know, relational trauma and emotional safety. Yes, this

is where, so this is where it really fits in

with uh calling in the war because I'm conscious and

coupling because attachment styles are in these deep roots and

they also affect how we're going to relate to ourselves

and other people. And that's the core of the work

in both of those programs. Please say more. Yeah. Well,

I um I really love that about your program and

what you're offering there because this uh what I, you

know, I'm taking from your work is that people are

also invited in to look at the patterns and what

ha what's been played out between people. So um some

of my colleagues in the attachment world and attachment parenting,

they invite us in to think about really what's happening,

let's say between you and me the space in between

that dance. And um I think that from very early

on we're being given messages, whether it's safe to have

emotional needs or not. And I don't think that's necessarily

intentional by our early caregivers to give us the message

that they shouldn't be cared for. I would take it

from that we're in a really big evolutionary process and

that previous generations would have parented the best that they,

they knew and they, they could, and now we're in

a phase where people are thinking about maybe other layers

to it. And so, um in the world of like

attachment, parenting and caregiving, what happens? This is you think

you look at, you know, the baby calls out in

distress and how is the caregiver then going to respond

to that distress? Are they going to attune to it?

Are they going to validate? Are they're going to help

the baby or the toddler organize their feelings and, and

be with them and tend to them. So, beside the

physical needs, what is happening with the emotional needs and

babies need their achievement to feel safe and to thrive.

And what may happen from very early on is that

b is an experience that it's not OK to have

emotional needs. So, uh caregivers are too busy or preoccupied

or you might also mis attuned and abusive might then

send out signals that it's not OK. So then fast

forward time, these babies would have found ways to protect

themselves and to survive. Fast forward, then later on, people

would then kind of go into a bit more of

an autopilot with their ways of relating to others in

this protective mode and then find themselves others that they're

keep reenacting this with. So someone who might be somewhat

dismissive or cold or rejecting or mean and, and really

unwelcoming as well. So, um I don't think that we

always recognize that we're in these kind of relational patterns

and it needs almost like a different network or different

support person or other environments where then, then the adult

then starts to realize, hang on a minute. Something is

not OK here, why do I end up having relationships

with people who make me feel really bad about myself

or where I actually feel like I have to keep

having really big protector, emotional protectors up and I can't

really show how I feel and then staying in hiding

or being isolated or not being really seen. I think

a lot of my work is to uncover with people.

What is it that's being played out? Where does it

come from? How does it make them feel and how

would they prefer it to feel? What would that look

like? You need to be able to understand what you're

doing first before you can start making any changes? I

think? You know, but that's actually a complicated work. It

is II I just love what you're saying because um

I know your approach is very different and probably goes

a lot deeper in the sort of curative factors. But

it really fits like we were talking about before, before

we got on the, the call about the patterns in

relationship is the way that my work comes in. What

are these patterns? How do they act out? And for

me, it's, it's actually being with another person, my clients

can be with me and from that position, I can

offer other perspectives that they haven't considered before and they

can begin to really see for themselves. They run with

that ball and it really opens things out and I'm

sure they do with you too. You suddenly realize what

they've been missing. And they can imagine, you know, we

do the visioning and the intention setting, which I think

really sets people on the road for what they're looking

for in a very powerful way and gives them the

energy, something is pulling them, they want that loving, trusting,

true love, committed romantic relationship. They want that even though

they've never experienced it, they can imagine it. And then

that shifts things. Please please say, yeah, no, I was

just going to say that, but I love that part

of your work because um there's a lot of science

that backs that up as well that shows us that

um we, we need to be able to just even

envisage something to be able to move towards it. We

um we need to have a sense of what it

could feel like to be able to, to do more

of that, I guess so. Um you know, it's, it's

lovely. Some of the research that shows you that even

if you're imagining doing a particular type of exercise, your

body is already responding and it's measurable. If you then

do the exercise and the visualization together, you are going

to have even more success in what you're trying to

achieve. So we know from the world of let's say,

sports psychology and or the performance coaching is very much

in line with this idea that you need to be

able to really visualize in your mind, what it could

be and what you want, like even stronger than that.

So you have all your senses in it and you

and I have done some of your, your imagination work

online with your podcast. It is lovely. You know, I

was like, yeah, I'm imagining what I want to have

here and that's feels really good. Why wouldn't I want

to call in the best for me? Um But when

your experiences have been so traumatic, it, it feels I,

I work with people with feels unimaginable. I mean, this

is for other people, this what you're talking about is

not for me, those kind of themes. So people who

feel like their self worth is so low that they,

the meaning for that might not always be on the

forefront of them might not, might not always have so

much awareness in this. But what they're acting out is

I'm at service to you. I don't matter. Or you

are only going to do me bad or like you're

gonna do me harm because that's what I deserve. Hm.

It's very painful when that internal part is missing. That

says it's ok to want more. This is so powerful.

It's painful to hear. Mm. And it's true. So, you

know, that's why this is such um intimate and delicate

work as well where we, as practitioners, what you or

me or any of our colleagues who might be listening

to this have to be really conscious of the space

that we're providing for someone else is emotionally safe. We

need to be the safe container too so we can

receive sometimes information that they've never shared with somebody else

because it's been so tucked away. It feels so shameful

to be, be this person, to feel these things, to

have experienced certain things, even when there are experiences that

were abusive towards them, them, what it's about is I

must be bad otherwise that wouldn't have happened to me.

I must deserve this kind of treatment. Absolutely. You know,

this, you, you're naming a lot of what we call

the false beliefs. I call them adaptation beliefs. Um I

think Catherine calls them false love identities. I am bad.

I'm not safe. I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy.

I'm not valuable. I don't matter. I don't belong. There

are more, there are lots more but um that's really

fitting with what you're saying. Wow. And when you summarize

it for me, like I give it that right back

to me. I'm noticing how that lands in my body

with. Wait, you know, the, there are all the subtle

ways and how that can be acted out between love

bonds and between family members. Hm. So, you know, the

way I think sometimes people learn to adapt is by

tucking it away pretending that it's not happening. They come

to me like a did that really happen? Um, part

as well. So where it's surreal and almost in a

dream state. So people can become quite fuzzy when you

start talking about early life experiences as in fuzzy in

the head fuzzy memories. Um And so therefore flit in

and out of like a presence in their everyday lives.

So as soon as things become stressful and in the

here and now they are not quite present, somewhat flitting

away because something would have triggered them to not feel

safe. So it's quite hard to be in a romantic

relationship with a lot of closeness when you're flitting off

regularly. And as it's, it's a way of, you know,

shutting down or, um, dissociating. That's what I'm thinking about

in a state of fear and overwhelm. Yes. Yes. It's

definitely in, in the category around survival and fear. And

another way on how that might show in relationship is

that someone is constantly overthinking. So think about the other

person's needs or the, you know, is it gonna go

wrong, constantly planning ahead, not being able to ease into

just going with the flow, needing quite rigid organizational structures

in place, never feel like they can just relax into

the here and now because they're not ready, they're not

prepared enough. Um So there's a difficulty in trusting the

process and then also understandably a difficulty in trusting in

others. Um Or like one of the other things that

I see regularly is people just being really numb, low,

absent and very early on having found a way to

like think that they just don't have emotional needs. I,

I guess in my world that's not real, that can't

be a thing. We are have evolved to be deeply

relational. So when someone then comes and says they, they

don't have any emotional needs, I'm doubtful that that is

so a long term plan for a relationship and this

is where codependency comes in and the sort of empaths

in the world. Um But from my point of view,

it's like I only see that I'm sort of, you

know, as if it's me talking, I only see the

needs of others and I shape myself around their needs.

And the secondary uh gain from that is that I

might get some of my needs met. Yeah, that's a

great description of this. Yeah. Yeah, I work in a

helping helping profession. I'm surrounded by colleagues who are helpers

and uh wanting to get, do good things for others.

And, um, but we have to remind each other regularly,

what are your needs? What is it that you need?

You know, so this can be expressed in lots of

different ways, right? This dance that you're talking about there.

Yeah. Yeah. And let's not throw the baby out with

the bathwater. You know, there's a place for love and

taking care of others. It's just we have to do

that from a full cup. We have to look after

ourselves first and prioritize our feelings and needs. Yes, I,

I think that's, that's the key, isn't it? The magic

ingredient is like, how, how do we feel in our

everyday life in relation to others? I, I love being

at service to my community. I think I'm so grateful

to what this brings me in my life. Um But

it's not a martyr kind of process. It's like I'm

not there for everybody else. And then, you know, for

me, somewhere comes in here as well. Actually, these are

things that are, these are experiences that are deeply rewarding

and very enjoyable even um amongst like some of the

traumatic stuff. But because it's very real, you know, I

guess the joyous bit is also where people really want

to show up and for themselves, not for me, but

showing up for themselves and really making a conscious decision

to want to bring about change. And I, I think

it's very possible. I have lots of plentiful of evidence

through my work and through my personal life that even

when your early start has been less than ideal, you

can move into whole new ways of relating with doing

the internal work, doing the processing. Um you have, you're

already, you know, on a really good path if you're

recognizing when it's not going well for you, that something

needs to change and, and with that, spending some time

and resources and energy into what is it that's happening.

So you create awareness and then also processing the feeling.

So you're not, you can then help kind of move

out of the survival mode, you know. So by the

time people come and work with me, the majority of

people have moved out of unsafe ter terrains and that,

I mean, like really emotionally and physically unsafe spaces and

often have moved more into a place where there is

a lot more safety in their life and now they're

ready to do that internal work. And then by processing

some of the big emotions and feelings, the whole of

the person can start to come to the kind of

conversation. So integrating the parts that have been split off

or neglected or rejected. So that's, that's very psycho psychotherapy

kind of talk, isn't it? And kind of splitting off

parts of ourselves to, to bring them back in that

we can just be all of ourselves. I love the

internal family systems work for that as well. So I'm

not fully trained, but I think it's a very lovely

new way of thinking about how we can have all

of our parts together, understanding them. And then seeing that

behind all of those parts is our true self, you

know, and their true self is the one who is

really eager to live a full and rich life, you

know. Hm. Yes, absolutely. And that for me is what

shines through when all of these patterns have been addressed.

I mean, it's never a done deal but, you know,

you always get triggered um one way or another, but

it's the depth to which you get triggered and how

long it lasts in the triggering. And I'm hearing having

clients saying now that, you know, it used to take

two weeks to recover. Now it takes two days or

now it takes two hours or 20 minutes. You know,

it, it gets shorter and shorter, the more you're used

to it and the more you can say, uh this

is happening again, just need to go out of this

room and calm down and then come back as my

adult self and negotiate for me from that empowered place

rather than be small and reactive and, and in that

sort of petty playground mode of na na na, na

na, I'm gonna be better. I'm gonna prove that I'm

right. You know, it never gets us anywhere. No, it

doesn't and, and yet we still find ourselves sometimes feeling

unforgiving and punishing or like murderous, even, you know, as

a parent I've sometimes found like, experience really murderous feelings.

I'm like, oh, I never thought I would be experiencing

them. That's such a shocking experience, you know. Um So

yeah, I love what you're describing there. How, what, that's

one of the key changes, isn't it? I remember many

years ago starting therapy for myself and having a fantasy

over, I will be sorted at some point when, when

I'll be done, when am I sorted? And um and

also having, you know, remember vividly saying, but if I

start crying now I might never stop. And, and so

that's it, isn't it? I think the shift I can

just, you know, talk about just even for myself, but

also by seeing other people who I work with and

who I support is that we don't become so stuck

in one mode. We have the, the, the moving out

of trauma modes or trauma reactivity is when we can

move more easily from one state to the other and

we can experience different states and we're not just in

one, not just angry, not just anxious, not just shut

down, you know I'm saying just because it feels like

that, you know, that feels quite minimizing and I don't

intend it like that and meaning that we don't get

to have the full range of emotional experiences. And so

one of the um therapy um modalities that I really

like is E MD R. So, eye movement, desensitization, reprocessing

is just too big a mouthful. So E MD R

where I work with the neuropsychological aspects of trauma that's

held in the body and held in a nervous system

and we can do the talking part and the body

and nervous system part together. And what I often say

to people when they confirm through their own descriptions of

this in other ways is we are not going to

take away the trauma memory. But what we're doing is

helping people process the traumatic events that it becomes more

integrated. And it means that people can look at the

memories and relate to it differently. So they're not like

hot experiences as soon as they're triggered, they're all in

the experience again. I have seen people process the most

traumatic events and then eventually get to a place where

they can look at it in their mind again or

go back in, in in time looking at the events

and just feel less about it and they have it

in their life as just like you would have like

different images you would have in a film. For example,

they just are, that doesn't mean you have to be

OK with what happened. Just means that you're not living

it right now. That then means it's very possible to

be in the here and now, which is a gift

and I not been living in the past. Yes. Not

living in the trauma and repeating it. Yeah. Yeah. Bless

you. That's beautiful work and beautifully put. I'm wondering if

you could say a little bit more about how unprocessed

trauma can manifest. Ok. So unprocessed trauma, um There are

lots of different ways of explaining it from a neuropsychological

world or from a therapeutic, so many lenses and languages.

Um Here is my margam version for this moment. So

unprocessed trauma can look like someone is reliving an event

over and over again. So they might find themselves really

quickly mm really living something through a sensory experience. So

they might feel something in their body um going hot

and cold or like uh digestive responses. So feeling really

sick or needing to go to loo very quickly, um

dry mouth, you know, the sweaty um anxiety responses, heartbeats,

those are kind of the physiological sensory experience you might

have by having had a trigger from the outside world

through smell or through touch or through words that someone

might use in relationships. So when people have had previous

traumas that are unprocessed, it means that they are projecting

some of this onto their partner also. So someone who

might come in with a very loving gesture or might

not be a loving gesture, it might actually really not

be ok but in the unprocessed part. But I'm taking

it that someone might have a loving gesture come their

way and they're experiencing it as highly threatening and something

to protect from. Um and pro process trauma often resurfaces

for people at night time. So nightmares is a, a

very common experience. Um So the very common things are

flashbacks, nightmares, um sensory experiences, um panic attacks, isolation. That's

how I would often see this. Does that answer that

one or do you think I should explain something else?

No, no. I think that that's great. And I was

thinking about how all of those things, if you're waiting

to be triggered into those things, how that comes up

in relationship and trying to predict and uh protect. I

think you, you were talking earlier about overthinking the predicting,

preventing planning for future events, uh being controlling, over preparing.

I mean, it can go the other way. I think

you can dissociate and just sort of jump at the

last minute sort of thing. Um Difficulty in trusting people.

All of those things were things we mentioned before, which

I think I see repeatedly when I'm working with people

who are trying out relationships in a healthy way for

the first time. And they, they find somebody who's healthy

and secure in their attachment and they're second guessing and

very anxious and looking for every little um micro action

or it can be an absence that somebody fell asleep

rather than responding to a text and didn't respond till

the next morning. And it's hugely triggering a feeling of

rejection, isolation and falling into nothing, those sorts of things.

And I'm just wondering if there's anything more that you

would like to say around that? Yeah, there's, I mean,

there's a lot of them, there already isn't there. And

um I what came for me as another example was

um in some of the parenting work with the tuning

to a baby and the um you know, the call

and response interaction, the dance between, you know, interacting with

eyes and facial expression and movements um between baby and

a caregiver. I have sometimes experienced how we have videos,

for example, with some of the work that we do

with this and examples of attunement between a male caregiver

and a baby and that sometimes people respond quite angrily

towards that. So it invokes something unsafe. Um you know,

something along the lines of that's too intrusive or it's

um overpowering or grooming or, and it's actually, it's a

very gentle dance, very, very, very gentle. So what that

sometimes tells me is that attunement can feel really threatening.

And I think we, I as a therapist can experience

that. So me being very attuned to someone who comes

into the room who hasn't had that before can find

that almost overwhelming. There's like a flood of feelings. Um

So we have to, you know, go slowly and really

give that time and space to explore. But in the

defender place where that person might be in that time

is, they are doing absolutely the right thing for themselves.

We can't be that close. We can't connect, you know.

Oh, my goodness. Get away with all your kindness, please.

And get away with all your love. Yes. Yes. It's

completely indigestible and not trustworthy. Too good to be true.

Suspicious. You know. And, and then comes the next thought

of, I have to get ready for the next bad

thing. So this might be nice. Ok, but when is

it gonna have to stop or when is something bad

gonna happen? So, again, back to preparing for the catastrophe

around the corner. So letting our guards down is not

that easy as a species. No, no. And when I

look back, you know, I was born in 1958 and

the received wisdom then was put the baby in the

pram and put them down the garden when they're crying

and feed them four hourly and they're supposed to sleep

in between and playing with the baby wasn't part of

the deal, you know, it's that sort of stuff. And

I could see that, um, retrospectively when I looked at

the, the people in the neighborhood that were bringing up

Children younger than me. So the way they were fed,

it was sort of rammed into their, their mouths and

then scraped off the outside and rammed in again. And

the poor little baby was sort of stunned and blinking,

you know. Um, it was just how things were. And

yet if we look at that in terms of relationship,

it's like you've just got to swallow everything. You've just

got to tolerate everything and your needs are too much.

So you have to be put away somewhere. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. That's a very powerful example you're giving us. Thank

you so much for sharing. I think your story is

not, you're not alone with that experience, uh what you're

describing there and I uh relatively speaking, that's a really

short time, isn't it? And where we have come from

and where we're heading towards. And um I, I would

love to talk about what we're heading towards because I'm

seeing big change and I'm seeing big change in how

we as a collective are speaking about love and achievement

and emotional health and emotional safety. And so as part

of my work, I do a lot of um training

for teams and staff to think about trauma informed care

principles. And actually what we get to quite quickly is

how safe do they feel at work and how safe

is it to be attuned to others at work and

caring at work? And, but actually, even though we're right

in the middle of this messy process, what I'm seeing

is that we have systems and institutions that are really

keen for this to take place. So it's, it is

being put into policies, it is being spoken about, we

are moving towards wanting to do this better we just

haven't quite got it all figured out. And I see

similarities with parenting. People want to be really loving and

caring and want to not be punishing and authoritarian in

a way that's cold and overpowering, but not all of

us have the tools all the time to make that

work. And so we have to meet ourselves with a

lot of kindness and compassion for that because we are

gonna have Miss Atun moments, which is right now we

have to go with good enough. 30% is good, right?

And yeah, we have to put protectionism to bed somehow.

At some point, our media and our cultural collective has

kind of been telling, giving us a message of these

perfect images, perfect bodies, perfect lives. And you know, if

you've got the house, the car, the dog, the kids,

the holiday and all these kind of things, you're gonna

be fine, right? Oh Is that well? And it's nobody's

reality. I haven't come across that being the happy ending.

If anything, it's a burden and an expectation that none

of us can meet. So what we have to figure

out is all these very, very personal ways of discovering

our own truth and living our own authentic lives. And

that takes work and it's super worth it completely the

energy because then it will keep feeding that. And if

you create more energy from doing the things that bring

you a lot of joy um is this an OK

time for me to bring in uh Doctor Lisa Millar's

work. Please do. Yeah, I love her book. It's called

The Awaken Brain. She's done decades worth of research into

spirituality. It's miserable. I mean, that's the coolest person. And

basically that's one of the key methods here. We have

come from a very materialistic kind of place. I think

culturally, there's been a lot of development away from intuition

and feeling within and feeling our connectedness because we've been

so busy in our heads and she's gone and done

a lot of research into spirituality and flow. And is

another way of my E MD R work. How do

we integrate all those kind of parts of the whole

of the brain? Well, if you are someone who takes

goes into this flow state through anything, exercise, meditation, serve

and gardening, whatever your version is of flow, you can

measure that in the brain. The brain goes into a

whole integrated way of communicating. And it allows us to

drop down in mindfulness practices. It's drop down, you can

feel it. I do a lot of mindfulness practices with

people and myself. And that drop down place is where

we can feel a whole new layer of information which

comes from within. And the more you do it, the

more you enjoy it, you know. So it's not like

a perfect place and it still takes practice, daily practice

to go there. And yet the more you do it,

the more you will feel drawn to do more of

it because it can be. So, I don't know, um,

fulfilling, I guess that's the word that comes with it.

So she makes something, um, a little, you know, someone

who knows that experience can feel it and they will

know what I'm talking about but some people don't know

what this feels like they can go and read in

her book, what science tells us about it. And so

we're marrying up old and new practices, you know, the

old and the new and yeah, I think that's a

really good message to hold on to that. We can

really influence how we feel internally through lots of flow

practices. This is, this is key for me because it's

like, how do we resource ourselves now? Resourcing sounds like

practical things, but emotionally resource ourselves and to, to be

a good enough parent, we don't need to be out

there working, bringing in the money and buying all the

toys. You know, we actually need to be present and

how do we resource ourselves to be present? This is

what you're talking about. Being present to yourself. Gives something

immense in terms of being present for others, particularly our

Children. The ass. Yes, it's um it's a very joyous

experience. I haven't, you know, I don't always managed to

be in that place and when I am, it's, it's

really worth it. It's really beautiful and So I think

that's what makes our work also more impactful is when

we're not coming from a place of like books, head

and learning, but from living, experiencing and sharing. So I

can only really work best with the things that I

also understand. Parenting has not always come easily to me,

relating has not always come easily to me. Loving hasn't

always come easily to me. So hence I end up

working in a field where I really have experienced difference

and I know that it can make a difference to

others too. So just this is what I'm offering. Um

And you know, I've said this before to you this

um I think culturally, we're also at a place where

we're moving into a whole new layer or way of

loving and relating and connecting. And you know, so maybe

some of the other cultures or times have been more

engaged with love and connection. So like in Sanskrit, they

have 78 different words for the word love. Apparently. So

that's the love that we're talking about between the therapist

and the client or the love between a mother and

a child or the the student for the teacher or

the love for your pizza. There's all different types of

loves, but we have love you or I might like,

but we have very few gradients that would explain the

complexity of the all these feelings that we might have.

So I'm really hopeful and I you know, I have

enough evidence to see. I know we're moving into something

new as a culture which is very promising. It's very

beautiful. Yeah, I feel like we are part of a

wave of love coming through the world. You just hear

it in the way people talk. Um and the intentionality

and the determination to be closer and more cooper. I

mean, you hear all the other stuff too, but I

think that's the the kicks of an old regime in

a way and, and this is emerging and I, I

have faith in its strength to help us be connected

as one human being to another, you know, whatever cross

of divide it is, you know, whether it's men and

women or black and white or Israeli and Palestinian that

there's, there's some sort of affinity in humanity that I

am longing to prevail. Um That's a great mission to

have. Yes, to be part of um weaving the connections

between people, allowing them to be with each other in

the most loving way knowing that that will also be

with all our messy parts and all our complicated parts

and all our histories. But that we can also meet

our ancestors with love and compassion to who didn't know

some of them would have known great wisdom at different

times and at other times, not where we kind of

go, those practices are no longer acceptable. We won't do

that again. We, we're trying not to repeat things and

moving towards what we do want. Mm. Absolutely. Absolutely. And

I think it's a, a, you know, I'm longing not

to say this, but I am longing just to say

it and name it. It feels like, you know, when

I'm a well fed, well heated, comfortable person in my

home that we have moved on. And at the same

time, I feel for the people who in this cold

winter that we've been experiencing are choosing between food and

heat and that, that is wrong. And we need to

have that identification with each other to make things more

egalitarian. So people can grow because there are really gifted

people with all sorts of things to give to the

world who can't because they're busy surviving. That's what I

was thinking. Our ancestors were busy surviving. I was going

to refer to that as the past, but it isn't,

it isn't, it's still current. You're right. It's very, very

current. Um uh you know, and, and, and my NHS

work, I see a lot of deprivation and yeah, we

have to, we, yeah, there's a lot going on that

we are having to figure out as a whole species.

Uh There's a lot of awareness, you know, I'm very

aware about the discrepancies between some of the very rich

and the very poor, for example, the very marginalized and

the, you know, much more accepted and, you know, there's

a lot of mess. Um and I think, you know,

but in therapeutic terms, there's a lot that's currently feeling

like a breakdown systems breaking down and therapeutically. I think

when I'm working with someone who feels like they're breaking

down, I also think that they're breaking through, they're going

into something very new. It's fertile ground and yet it's

the most painful place to be in. So anyone who's

been in a breakdown place, well, now that it's raw,

but the rawness is also that would allow us new

thinking and reviewing because when we are going on autopilot,

we just keep going. You know, it's like we just,

and I think that's been part of the problem. The

lethargy, the, we're ok, aren't we? You know. Oh, yeah,

ticking along. But when we're just place it, that's the

word, isn't it? Really? Yes. I don't think we can,

we, I don't think many people are feeling so complacent

right now. I think, no, no. And certainly, um in

terms of being stimulated to grow mentally and emotionally, spiritually,

there's quite often a trigger that sets that in motion

and uh sort of lying in the sand. I've had

enough of this. This is not happening anymore. I'm going

to do something about it. And I think discomfort, uh

you know, we can, we can handle a degree of

discomfort, but when it gets to pain or some sort

of critical mass, then we decide to make the change.

And I think that's happening for us on a global

level. I mean, it, you know, the the calling in

the worn and conscious and coupling looks continually about. I

am others are, life is love, is marriage, is the

world is, you know, because we project whatever the the

feelings we have about ourselves out onto the world, we're

depriving ourselves, the world will be experienced as a depriving

place. So I think we are really evolving. We're on

the edge of evolution. I don't pretend to have a

full vision of it, but I see a *** of

it and I hope, you know, that's the crack where

the light gets in as Leonard Cohen would put it

and it would all become so much better in our

lifetimes and beyond. Mm Wow. What a beautiful conversation. See,

I knew I would enjoy coming to the podcast and

having a conversation with you. It also letting me go

away with lots of food for thought and thinking about.

Yeah. Where are we heading? Those existential questions have to

be part of it. Why am I here? And where

am I head? Mm. Is that a good place for

us to round off? I think. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much, Cat Peckett. Where can we find

you give us your uh contact details on your website?

OK. So I'm actually just in the process of um

working on a new website which is an A uh

dash cara.uk. And the reason why I've chosen, chosen Ankara

is a, is a deep Celtic tradition. A word that's

coming from the place of, you know, having it like

your soul friend. I'm not pretending to be anyone's soul

friend, necessary. That's not necessarily what it's about, but it's

about this deep connection. And when you're in deep connection,

you can unfold, you can kind of untangle all of

the knots and kind of come to a different place

of discovery about yourselves and your soul and like a

place of greater meaning in this world of being here

for a reason. So I didn't know. Over 21 years

ago, I started my journey into, into psychology. I did

not know that spirituality would become such a big element

to understanding ourselves and my journey. So anyway, so I

ended up having Anam Kara Dash. No, let me say

that again. Anam Dash kara.uk. That's my website and I'm

working on that. OK? A very easy way to get

hold of me is Katherine dot Peckett at gmail.com. Any

inquiry? OK. Oh, that's lovely. Oh, thank you so much

cat. That's just been wonderful to be with you and

maybe we'll do it again. Hey, yeah, I would love

that. Yes. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank

you so much for listening to this episode of revolutionize

your love life. I'd like to know what has been

your biggest takeaway from this conversation. Do take a minute

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out to me as I'm always keen to learn more.

Thank you so much again for listening and we'll meet

again on the next episode of Revolutionize your love life.