Prison Breaking - Episode 2 - Allen ===

[00:00:00] Sarah: Welcome back, everyone. This is Prison Breaking with Paul and Sarah, or Sarah and Paul. We don't know yet.

[00:00:21] Paul: I'm Sarah. And I'm Paul. On screen and off, which is a story in and of

[00:00:25] Sarah: itself. Right. Same. Same. Um, about the onscreen and off part. I'm not, I'm not Paul. But you

[00:00:30] Paul: started off as Sarah, right? I mean, the character was named Sarah when you received the

[00:00:33] Sarah: script?

Yes. From the very beginning, it was Sarah Tancredi. Critical difference, there is no H. Correct. I remember that. Um, Sarah, Sarah's name, I am, I was named after the only woman in the Bible that laughed at God. Okay,

[00:00:48] Paul: that is so on, that is on brand, that is borne out. You are an iconoclast in that way. I am named, I am named after someone named Pearl, but that's just my [00:01:00] family.

And in Prison Break, there was, there was, Sorry,

[00:01:03] Sarah: nope, nope, nope, you're backing up. You are Pearl Edelstein?

[00:01:07] Paul: No, I'm Paul Edelstein, but I'm named for Pearl. I'm named after Pearl.

[00:01:11] Sarah: That's amazing. It's amazing that somebody

[00:01:13] Paul: thought My mother, my father's mother Paul and Pearl. P, I guess just P. My dad's joke, even though he named me after his mother Pearl, as Paul was that he should have named me P period Earl, which would have been

[00:01:27] Sarah: Yes. By the way, when I was in high school and thought I was really deep and thought I could I decided that my pen name would be S period A period raw.

[00:01:38] Paul: I know, I know. So good. And by high school you meant when you were at Dartmouth. Um, okay. When you were a senior. Uh, you mean last year. I

[00:01:49] Sarah: meant this week when I pitched my novel to my agent.

Yes, that's what I mean.

[00:01:53] Paul: Um, actually that's kind of dope.

[00:01:54] Sarah: Wait, but I want to hear, but you did not start out as Paul, correct? No, it

[00:01:58] Paul: was just Agent Kellerman and [00:02:00] Agent Hale, and then we just picked up, I don't know what episode it was, whenever we use each other's first names with one another, and it was just Danny and Paul, and it was Danny McCarthy playing Hale and Paul Edelstein playing Kellerman, and so they just went with Danny and Paul, which was kind of Um, funny.

Um, also it is, and I don't know, I never asked Turing about this, but you know, Kellerman is the name of the Secret Service agent who was driving Kennedy's car. Yes. So I never knew if that was a naughty thing or not.

[00:02:33] Sarah: Well, I mean, he, he nods at a few. You know, we were talking earlier during the rewatch about, um, Fibonacci, Fibonacci sequence.

Yeah. The Fibonacci sequence. Um, by the way, small thing as we're on names, two things, one, I asked them to change Sarah Tancredi to something else because I didn't want to have the same name and Paul sharing goes on this whole, like. Deeply manipulative speech about how Sarah is such a [00:03:00] noble name and so strong and so powerful and I was like, okay, I see what you're doing here and I just want it to stop.

So fine. Like, I'm just going to walk away because I don't want to hear this anymore. And when I saw Agent Hale, Hale is spelled H A L E, which is the Hawaiian word for house. But it's pronounced Holly. So for like the first three episodes, I thought it was Kellerman and Holly. And then

[00:03:25] Paul: he's not Hawaiian. I

[00:03:26] Sarah: heard it.

And I was like, all right, my bad. Mr. McCarthy is not playing a Pacific Islander.

[00:03:32] Paul: Now that that's sorted out at the time for the Calestine index. This episode is confusingly called episode one Oh one. In our scripts and I think on the, wherever you find it, even though the title of it is Alan, normally in television, the pilot episode of a show is called episode one.

If it's season one, that makes it episode one Oh one for some reason on prison break, they went pilot one Oh one. And did we [00:04:00] shoot 23 episodes in the first season or 22?

[00:04:02] Sarah: I think we shot 22.

[00:04:05] Paul: But it was listed as 123 because No, it would have been 121. No, it was listed as 121. Okay, sorry. Yes, the other This is, uh, this is,

[00:04:14] Sarah: this episode is This is a Fibonacci sequence.

Doing math. Doing math.

[00:04:17] Paul: Yes. Anyway, it was, so that was confusing for us. It's probably not confusing for the audience. Um, anyway, the, uh, episode is titled Alan, A L L E N, written by Paul Schering and directed by Michael Watkins, who was our producing director, a producing director is somebody who directs sometimes a majority of the episodes, but is even though directors file in and out of television programs, is the director that's always there kind of overseeing the directing that's going on.

[00:04:46] Sarah: Um, more on Watkins later, possibly. Uh, he was character. We loved him. Um, okay. Quick blurb of this episode, which we just watched and you guys, it is, uh, way more intense than I remember. Absolutely. [00:05:00] It ends, uh There's a

[00:05:02] Paul: half season of plot twists in one episode. That is

[00:05:06] Sarah: exactly right. That is exactly right.

If the show was on HBO, it would have been like four seasons of plot twists, potentially. Because they're very slow burny, and this was very bonfire. This was like, light a match, burn it down. Um, okay. Quick blurb. Trouble is inevitable in the prison when a race riots. is imminent. Michael has problems retrieving a screw from the bleachers.

Veronica receives a security tape that shows Lincoln shooting Terrence Stedman.

[00:05:31] Paul: This episode actually aired right after the pilot on August 29th, 2005, and according to our sources, had the exact same rating, which means people didn't turn it off after the pilot. I mean, it was, people just ran right into this episode after the pilot, which Just shows kind of how the show, yeah, was, was getting its hooks in people.

It was up against NFL preseason football still on ABC. The Rams beat the Lions 37 to 13 and a rerun of two and a [00:06:00] half men on CBS and a rerun of Las Vegas on NBC. Did you ever, were you ever on Las Vegas? No, I did an episode of Las Vegas. Really?

[00:06:09] Sarah: Yes. Um, by the way, smart of the scheduling gods to put us up against reruns.

premiered in the summer. August

[00:06:20] Paul: is August. At that time, August, end of August was a little early. Yeah.

[00:06:26] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, not smart of them to schedule us opposite Hurricane Katrina, but I suppose some things can't be helped. Okay. A couple of cultural notes. It was opening day of the U. S. tennis open in New York and NASA's Mars reconnaissance orbiter was on its way to Mars.

This is a mission that would eventually prove crucial to advancing Earth's understanding of the red planet. Our show was, uh, slightly less impactful from an astronomical perspective.

[00:06:53] Paul: I respectfully disagree. Um, you can get into that later. And for right now, [00:07:00] please listen to the rewatch with us. Here's some highlights from Sarah and my.

reactions to watching episode 101 Alan together. And if you want, we'd love for you to watch the whole thing with us, which is in our bonus materials.

[00:07:16] Sarah: Three, two, one.

[00:07:19] Paul: Play.

[00:07:25] Sarah: You know, Rockman was probably one of the best known actors on this show. Like he was coming off as soul food. I remember he had like, Calendars, with him on it. Yeah, he has like,

[00:07:36] Paul: merch and stuff. I would like a Rockman calendar.

[00:07:45] Sarah: We picked up the pilot, fantastic. We're gonna go race riot. We're gonna go murder. We're gonna send our lead all the way down a rabbit hole.

[00:07:53] Paul: Like, none of the plan is going right, and we don't even know what the plan is.[00:08:00]

[00:08:02] Sarah: Oh. Oh. It's so brutal. I like, almost can't

[00:08:06] Paul: watch this. Cannot believe it's network

[00:08:08] Sarah: television. It was 9 o'clock. That's why they didn't air this at eight.

[00:08:13] Paul: And with that, we'll be right back.

Welcome back everybody to Prison Breaking with Sarah and

[00:08:21] Sarah: Paul. Okay. So that's our compressed rewatch. We're going to break it down now. Yeah,

[00:08:26] Paul: let's, let's talk about the cocktail. Let's talk about the device that we see a little bit of in the pilot, which is the tattoo and how here they really, this is, we really get a sense of how this show is going to work, which is so cool.

And I wonder how much of it was pre designed during the pilot, which is it. Each thing on his body, each little detail of the tattoo for in this instance, Alan, which is a piece of writing on his arm, which is backwards, which he has to show in a mirror, which says Alan [00:09:00] Schweitzer and a number and the audience has no idea what it means.

Only Michael knows what it means. And we see throughout the episode him doing various things on screwing a thing with the quarter and this, this, Uh, screw is very important to him, we're not exactly sure why, we kind of get little hints, and then all these obstacles are thrown in his way, T Bag takes it away, he has to get it during the riot.

The audience is rooting for Michael to figure something out that they have no idea what it means. Yes. It's such a cool device and you don't really learn it until the very end, almost before the very end. Well,

[00:09:38] Sarah: and from what I remember during the pilot, they had not worked out all of these individual plot points.

And so They were careful never to be too close on the tattoos in the pilot because when we punch in on them episodically as they broke the season, there were very specific things [00:10:00] that they needed that they sort of mapped onto his body into places that like, Oh, we haven't seen his back shoulder. We haven't done this.

[00:10:07] Paul: As two people that have been in writer's rooms, I imagine at some point people's ears just started bleeding and they said, okay, we actually have to tell, we actually have to just move on and start telling stories about humans because if I do any more research on tattoos. Screws, and typing systems, and how to break out of a prison, I'm gonna go mad.

But they did an incredible job

[00:10:32] Sarah: of it, in my opinion. They did an incredible job, but like, I'd be willing to bet that the Christina Rose tattoo doesn't appear anywhere in season one, because that was a season two plat point. Right, right, right. And, you know, like there's only so, they did a brilliant job, but there's only so far ahead that you can lay the track.

Sure, sure. Um, with the train barreling down on you.

[00:10:49] Paul: So with that said, let's talk about the ending.

[00:10:53] Sarah: F ing us. I suppose we can swear on this, right? This is our podcast. Holy fucking shit, dude. They, I [00:11:00] mean,

[00:11:01] Paul: I mean I'm shaking my head in disbelief. Even at the time, I remember reading it because we didn't have scripts in it too far in advance.

And you know, it's network television. He puts the shears on his toe and it goes pom pom and it cuts to black and you're going to come back and he's going to be limping and then it's going to be, I will cut you, I'll do it next time, fish. Except

[00:11:24] Sarah: Even as a series, as an, a season finale, that would have been a big moment, but what really

[00:11:32] Paul: happened in Game of Thrones, which is, Oh, they cut, he cuts his toes off because

[00:11:36] Sarah: his toes off.

He cuts his two. Left toes off. My left foot is the subtitle of this

[00:11:43] Paul: episode. His pinky toe and his fourth toe.

[00:11:46] Sarah: Which is a ring toe? It's not a ring toe. Surely not. You don't wear toes. You don't wear rings on your toes. So romantic.

[00:11:54] Paul: I have a friend with a toe ring. It's very upsetting. Yeah. That's

[00:11:56] Sarah: a very sort of 80s.

Correct. I screamed. [00:12:00] Uh, I forgot all about it, I'll be honest. I, I mean, I remembered it happened, but I thought it was much later in the episode following a giant race riot set piece. Like, it's not like it was a mellow episode that

[00:12:11] Paul: ended. So, what I remember from shooting that episode, I only had a couple scenes in it.

Is that I was called that I shot a thing in the car, I shot a thing in the, uh, one of the downtown office buildings in Chicago and I'm confronting the lawyer that gave Veronica the tape and then I got called out to Joliet to Fox River, which I didn't shoot at Fox River because my character was never there and it was Fox.

It might have been in the next episode and it was insanity. It was, they were editing episodes and they realized that they needed shots that they didn't have, which happens on television shows often.

[00:12:53] Sarah: Yeah, especially a

[00:12:53] Paul: big one like this. Yeah, it was. And Watkins felt like he was directing [00:13:00] three shows at once.

So he was, there was a camera inside the bill. They were shooting in the yard. There were cameras inside to shooting inserts of things, telephones, guns, videotapes, just shooting. And he brought me

[00:13:15] Sarah: in there. Was like, yeah, it

[00:13:18] Paul: wasn't even, they didn't have an insert unit yet really. Cause that didn't really happen until.

Oh,

[00:13:23] Sarah: interesting. Yeah, that's true. That's true.

[00:13:26] Paul: And, and, and he was setting me up. There's a scene where I go, I confront that guy, as I just said, but there's a shot of me holding up my secret service badge and somebody somewhere decided he, this guy needs to identify himself or we need some kind of power dynamic so that we didn't shoot that on the

[00:13:43] Sarah: day.

Badges, we don't need no stinkin badges. Correct.

[00:13:46] Paul: And so, they just set up a camera against a wall, and they made it super blurry, so I just hold it up again. But, somebody from the yard was screaming at Watkins. Screaming at him. That's a bold move. And so it was just, it was just a camera operator. There was no [00:14:00] DP, there was nothing.

And Watkins just turned to me and goes, Just, just, hold your badge up and shoot it. You just say, cut and action. You just say, action and cut. He runs out. Was

[00:14:09] Sarah: that the first thing you ever directed? Yes, I

[00:14:12] Paul: have the slate operator like, how does it look? I'm like framing it. He's like showing me the thing. Oh my God.

Do the slate. And I hold it up. We did it like five times. And I was like, and that's what they use. I was like, I was like, this

[00:14:25] Sarah: can't

[00:14:27] Paul: be happening, but that's how, that's how, uh, chaos, there was chaos at that moment. Not all the time, but sometimes

[00:14:35] Sarah: season one of a network show, especially then there was. A lot of chaos.

And partly because they had shot this extraordinary pilot over what, 21, 25 days? Like, back then pilots took the better part of a month and they're trying to condense it into eight days. Um,

[00:14:57] Paul: and, and they had three times the amount of money and, [00:15:00] and I also remember one of the things that was going on that day, Sarah was, and we did mention this briefly during the rewatch, is that when you look at the yard, Oh, it wouldn't have been yet.

But when we shot the pilot, it was very cold.

[00:15:15] Sarah: Okay, wait, I want to back up to something before we go onto this because you're totally right about that. But I have my scripts here and as we were talking, since you and I have both directed episodic. Made me think, 8 days. Guess how many pages episode 2 is?

Because, dear audience, this is a network show, which means you have 42 minutes and some odd seconds to air the show. You can't go over because they use that time for advertising and that's what pays for the show. So, unlike streaming services, when you direct on a network show, you deliver, or, well, you deliver what you deliver, but they deliver to the network, a 42 minute and a little bit of a show.

And that is, usually works out to about a 45 [00:16:00] page episode. Which you can shoot, usually, in eight days.

[00:16:05] Paul: Forty five? I thought it was, like, fifty three, but okay, go on. Well, you work on fast talking shows. And I work on Sean Lennon. Yeah. So we would get up to sixty, but we were talking real fast.

[00:16:16] Sarah: Okay, because this episode is sixty two pages.

Wow. I have the Canary pages for me right here, in front of me. Canary is the color, by

[00:16:24] Paul: the way, which also means lots of rewrites.

[00:16:28] Sarah: Production draft, blue draft, pink draft, full canary revision.

[00:16:33] Paul: No, so not that many. I was, yeah, I guess just yellow,

[00:16:35] Sarah: yeah. It's, yeah, it's synonyms. Uh, but, you know what, I'd be curious someday to find out is how much of what we shot made it onto the screen.

Right. And how much had it been on the cutting room floor for time. Also,

[00:16:49] Paul: Yeah, because 62 pages is a lot and some of that was just, you know, like interior race riot, which doesn't pick up a lot of, you know, the old, uh, [00:17:00] gone with the wind joke, right? Which is like, we can't possibly shoot this. Why? It's a quarter page.

Yeah, but it says Atlanta

burns.

[00:17:07] Sarah: Oh, I heard it. Roam birds. Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:10] Paul: Yeah. Okay. Whatever. Um,

[00:17:15] Sarah: Okay, so that that's a little bit of sort of, uh, directing geekery you very rightly pointed out that, um, we shot the pilot in December and

[00:17:26] Paul: we shot it was, you could see their breath on the yard. Michael was supposed to be in short sleeves.

Yep.

[00:17:33] Sarah: They all have like jackets. Yeah, yeah,

[00:17:35] Paul: yeah. And it was cold on the yard and it all supposed to take place in only 30 days or something. Very, very, very. Isn't he, doesn't he go in like, it's not September 11th, is it? Because isn't it the date of execution October? I remember being circled on a calendar.

It's like October 30 and he like goes and it's like, I have 30 days, Veronica. I have 30 days. It's like, or 60. It was tight. It [00:18:00] was very tight. And so there was, I remember, so we started shooting the. season in July or August, which is great. I mean, hot and hot for those guys out in the yard, but it

[00:18:10] Sarah: was around.

Um, I feel like it was around Independence Day, like around July 4th or something. Uh, yeah, super hot. In fact, I have a line coming up. I don't Sarah. Without an H has a line in an episode coming up where I say hottest April on record because they were trying to account for the fact That it was too hot for us to wear.

Oh, yeah Even like long

[00:18:36] Paul: sleeves. So, you know in Chicago, we started shooting in summer by the middle of September or October. It's quite cold and by November, it's real cold, but I also remember them having, because it wasn't snowing when we shot the pilot, them having to melt snow in the yard to have them walk around.

Oh, yeah. I remember guys [00:19:00] with blowers blowing the snow and trying to melt the snow to get certain shots.

[00:19:06] Sarah: Well, and there's that shot in English Fitz or Percy where Michael pops out of the roof and it's just deriving snow. It's almost a whiteout. It was just blizzarding. Um, these are the exciting things that happen.

Yes. But I will take it because Chicago gave us so many amazing actors. Not to mention, I mean, a really cool place to be, right? So one of the things that happened between episode, or between the pilot and episode one is we both moved to Chicago, which I was born in Chicago. I was born in Michael Reese hospital.

Uh, which has since been, yep, since been taken down, same hospital. Everybody I grew up

[00:19:42] Paul: with was born in Michael Reese Hospital.

[00:19:45] Sarah: Well, you put me on the list. Um, we moved to Hawaii when I was a baby. So the first time I ever remember living in Chicago was for prison break, but it was, it was a great city. And you were married.

[00:19:57] Paul: You and Josh were already married.

[00:19:59] Sarah: Yep. We were [00:20:00] already married. We got married in oh two. Um, so we hadn't been married very long, but we didn't have kids and it was a great city like

[00:20:07] Paul: point of information. The scene in this episode in Millennium Park, I was born right to the left of where there's a shot of me and Danny and I'm eating a hot dog.

I was born. At 30 North Michigan Avenue, which is a doctor's office, which is a whole different story. Oh, literally right on that corner, like on the, I don't know, whatever floor, but that's amazing. Right

[00:20:34] Sarah: there. And Millennium Park was new,

[00:20:38] Paul: brand new. I had never seen the bean and the, and that, um, and that the, you know, you see the huge picture of people's faces for that day, you

[00:20:48] Sarah: know, and I remember, uh, coming home from work one day and.

Barack Obama had just given a speech in Millennium Park and my husband came [00:21:00] home and he's like, I just heard one of the most extraordinary

[00:21:04] Paul: speeches. What year was it? 2004 or five? He

[00:21:07] Sarah: was. That would have been five. 2005. Um, he was the junior senator from Illinois, um, and in fact, backing up during the pilot because they put us up at the Harrods, no, not the Harrods.

No. Harrah's. Casino. Um, in Joliet, during the pilot. Oh, oh,

[00:21:27] Paul: oh, in Joliet, because I stayed downtown. I

[00:21:30] Sarah: stayed downtown when I wasn't shooting. But the night, like I had one overnight in Harrah's, Wentworth and I went out to dinner to try and be like, hi, who are you? We're going to work together. Had a lovely dinner.

We're walking back to the hotel and we pass, um, a storefront that had been a campaign headquarters and there are all of these Barack Obama signs. That would have been for State Senate. On the ground. That would have been 2004. Yeah. [00:22:00] He was

[00:22:00] Paul: running for Senate.

[00:22:02] Sarah: Yeah. And I remember we walked by and we went, Barack Obama.

God bless that guy. There's no future in politics. Yeah, like no chance. With a name like that. Yeah, like no chance. Didn't even know about the Hussein part. Um, so what we're.

Um, but Chicago was cool. You were living, we talked about this last time, you were living with your brother. I lived with my brother. I was living in Wicker Park. It was a great city to live in. And because you and I didn't work that much, we, uh, we had a chance to like really get to know the city and hang out.

Yeah. Well,

[00:22:36] Paul: I knew it really. It was nice for me. I, I got to see all my friends. I got to start playing music with the bands I'd been in in Chicago and it was quite a year. And, um, I had just, uh, I was dating the person that I, uh, eventually married and she hadn't spent much time in Chicago or met my friends and family really.

So she could come and it was great. It was, it was really, it was really nice. And I loved getting to work [00:23:00] all over the city like I did, you know, downtown and they showed off Chicago. Yeah. They showed off Chicago really

[00:23:05] Sarah: well with you. I mean, I was not in those, you know, you were in a, I was in a one room, um, yeah, But, uh, quite literally except for the riots.

And like periodically walking around the yard, but 90 percent of my work season one was in the infirmary.

[00:23:25] Paul: And what, and where was that infirmary? Was that literally, was that built at, uh, it wasn't a stage, it was a real infirmary type place. Yeah,

[00:23:37] Sarah: it was the actual infirmary wing and they, um, because it had been a working prison, if you accidentally closed a door, None of them opened from the inside.

They automatically locked you in. And so a couple of times Wentworth and I got locked in, we'd like go run lines down the hall and we'd hear them calling for us. And, uh, [00:24:00] and we'd be like, Oh, they'll get us eventually. And someone would finally knock on the door. They'd be like, why didn't you come? I was like, cause it's a prison, dude.

We've been locked in this here room together for the last 20 minutes.

[00:24:12] Paul: Um, do we talk about the Gacy part of this yet?

[00:24:16] Sarah: Oh, the John Wayne Gacy?

[00:24:18] Paul: He was housed

[00:24:19] Sarah: there. Do we save that for the um

[00:24:22] Paul: Yeah, for movies. Yeah, because I remember Dominic wanted to use that. So there was a whole thing. Yeah, that that that was, yeah, that was dark.

We're both kind of going. Yeah, maybe we save that.

[00:24:34] Sarah: Yeah, maybe we say there's a couple of things I want to talk about, about the badge story, which we got to pug neck. Yeah. the tank top, and you wanted to talk about a black eye. That's what I

[00:24:46] Paul: wrote down. Okay. I think pugnac is pretty quick, which is just a joke of distilling pugs into a liquor of some kind.

Yeah.

[00:24:56] Sarah: I mean, okay. So we're rewatching. So as we're rewatching, [00:25:00] we keep hearing the word pugnac, pugnac, pugnac. And we decided that it should be a cocktail because it sounds like something small, squish faced, compact dog would Consume . This sounded much better in my head.

[00:25:19] Paul: Consumer, or serve? Yeah, I don't,

[00:25:21] Sarah: or inspired by a pug.

So let's inspired by,

[00:25:26] Paul: let's, let's challenge our listenership, all 12 of them. to design either, uh, drop picture, cocktail or mock. Or a mocktail or cocktail, what would be in a Pugnac that would be prison break themed, themed cocktail? Maybe if we find a good one, we can use that for our drinking game. Ooh, or we can at least try it.

I've always wanted to vomit on a podcast.[00:26:00]

[00:26:00] Sarah: So, okay, so I, there's a version that's like one part cognac, one part pernod, one part tonic water. Serve over ice. I don't really know what tastes like. Um, I suppose you could also go for prune juice and cognac, which sounds like

[00:26:23] Paul: what's the, it's also, I've always wanted to have to go to the bathroom on a podcast.

We're just going to do all these things. I, it has to be, it has to be prison break related. So don't, don't ruin our 12 listeners fun. Let them come up with it. And we will, We could just get judge it later. That's much more fun. This

[00:26:42] Sarah: is the great pug Mac challenge. Great. By the way, please don't use actual pug Mac in the making of these cocktails because it's a pharmaceutical and that's bad for you.

Oh,

[00:26:51] Paul: right. I thought you were going to say, don't get any pugs and distill them. Into Laur because yeah, that would also be

[00:26:58] Sarah: also do that, but I don't think that's something we [00:27:00] should have to say to people. Mm-Hmm. , to be fair.

[00:27:04] Paul: We'll, we'll check in with the lawyers. We'll check in with our lawyers. .

[00:27:07] Sarah: We'll check in with our, we don't have our lawyers at Dewey Cheatham.

And how that's a reference to click and clack The Tapper brothers. Who? Oh my God. Dewey Cheat. Oh, amazing. Um, okay. There was something else that I was thinking of. They cut to Muse Watson at some point during the year. Oh yeah. During the riot, he ripped, absolutely ripped. I feel like he would win the arm wrestling contest, uh, versus anybody in that cast, which is amazing because it was a pretty cut cast.

Um, Muse. Okay. So here's the two things about, well, here's the thing about Muse. He has such a gentle soul and he was this old cowboy. And I remember talking to him once about being afraid to ride horses and he, cause I'd been on a horse that had taken off with me when I was eight and I'd never gotten back on.

And he. Talked me through how to ride. safely and without fear without ever [00:28:00] being near a horse, which just impressed the living daylights out of me. He was like,

[00:28:04] Paul: Did it bear out? Did you try it? Did it? I've never been, are you on a horse right now? Comfortably comfortably on a horse right now.

[00:28:12] Sarah: I did my two coconut shells.

[00:28:14] Paul: It was very, uh,

[00:28:16] Sarah: yeah, it was so sweet. So this, this is kind of dumb, but the head, you know, a lot of our, uh, Chicago crew were very sort of salty and, um, I remember talking in the, uh, hair and makeup trailer one day. I came in in a men's tank top undershirt, um, cause it was super hot and I am ashamed to say that the only way I ever knew what to call that was it was a wife beater.

And I said something about like, Oh yeah, sorry to just come in here in a wife beater, but you know, blah, blah, blah. And one of our hair and makeup ladies was like, what did you call that? And I was like, Oh my gosh, [00:29:00] I, you know, that's something I just received and I did not ever think about it. I'm so sorry.

What do you call it? And she goes, a day goatee. A day goatee,

[00:29:08] Paul: which is like, and

[00:29:09] Sarah: I was like, wait,

[00:29:12] Paul: I mean, I remember, I remember making the transition. This is a weird term to use, but I remember stopping saying wife beater and starting to say day goatee before I even knew what that meant.

[00:29:22] Sarah: It took me a minute until I was like, right, fair enough.

That's a racial slur. Great. Or an ethnic stereotype, I suppose, ethnic stereotype. Um, so that's what life was like behind

[00:29:31] Paul: the scenes. People still don't, people in wardrobe departments still do not say tank top. Because it's a particular thing because it's ribbed and da da da. Yeah, it's an undershirt

[00:29:41] Sarah: situation.

Undershirt, that's good too. But an undershirt, I feel like, is a v neck and sleeve. But isn't there a

[00:29:47] Paul: T word for it? Because it's, not T, but like, isn't there a letter that it looks like? An A shirt? I don't know.

[00:29:54] Sarah: I have no idea. I really don't.

[00:29:56] Paul: I'm, I'm boring myself to

[00:29:58] Sarah: tears. And we [00:30:00] will be right back.

[00:30:05] Paul: Welcome back, everybody, to Prison Breaking with Sarah and

[00:30:08] Sarah: Paul. What else was it you wanted? Oh, you wanted to talk about my black eye. So Sarah

[00:30:12] Paul: has, um, a slight, very slight, Discoloration under her right eye that I remember being the cause of some consternation for you because you were like, stop trying to cover it up.

Or it was impossible to, it was impossible to cover up. I remember at one point or something like it just kind of comes through.

[00:30:37] Sarah: I, you know, I mean, I notice it in the show, like in that I, I'm barely in episode one here. I

[00:30:44] Paul: did not notice it. I just remember looking at your face, remembered that it was a thing.

[00:30:48] Sarah: I mean, look, if I am wearing no makeup, people come up to me and ask me if I'm okay. Um, it's dark enough that it [00:31:00] looks, you know, it looks like I got popped when I was in grad school. A bunch of my teachers had like an intervention because they knew that I had been a martial artist and they were like, are you okay?

I was like, I really appreciate that. Um, y'all be here for three years and it's never going to go away, but it's not just under my eye. It's also the eyelid and it goes above my eyebrow into my hairline. Um, and so it's pretty, do you,

[00:31:24] Paul: are you comfortable telling us what it's from? Well,

[00:31:28] Sarah: I mean, two things happened.

I'm told by doctors that neither one of them medically could produce this result. And yet here we are. The first is that when I was in high school, I got kicked in the head with a soccer ball on that spot. And the ball was kicked by Nadine Wong, who was like a junior champion soccer player. She was amazing.

Um, and it was totally my fault. I was sitting on the sidelines because I'm not an athlete and I was not paying attention to the game and the ball flew off sides and hit me. It was my fault, not hers. [00:32:00] Um, and I got a bruise and then because it was Hawaii and it was the nineties and I didn't wear sunscreen, I'm told that sometimes a bruise on your face can just kind of get branded on by the sun.

Um, and then a few years later, I was on tour, you can make fun of this, it's, it's fine, with the Glee Club, um, of my college, and I was standing in front of, uh, uh, Grand Central Station. Uh huh. My first time in New York City. Um, on my own, and I thought I looked both ways, and I must not have, because I stepped off the curb and I got hit by one of those motorized, um, messenger bikes.

Oh, God. And I went flying, and I landed on the curb. ground and I hit my head and I skidded so far that I remember this is back when you wore, not you, but where one wore pantyhose to perform and the pantyhose fused to [00:33:00] my hip. And I was totally in shock. So those are the two times I've hit that part of my head.

Um, but in every show I'm in, they cover up on Walking Dead. I had bangs. Uh, makeup's gotten better, but yeah, it was a thing. It was a thing. I'm wondering, I mean, I'm kind of curious about this music that you were playing with your band in Chicago.

[00:33:25] Paul: Oh, we don't have to talk about that. I mean, we can eventually, because we can talk about, We played a Halloween show, a, a group of us played the hollow, a Halloween show as the poncy lads, which is a kind of comedic, insane, amazing, fake mustache, sailor suits, um, playing covers like a mashup of, Uh, games without frontiers into honky cats and closer by nine inch nails into the sopranos theme kind of [00:34:00] insanity for a Halloween show that was jammed as you know, Chicago, well, everywhere, but Halloween in Chicago and a lot of the prison break cast came and frankly, just didn't quite know what to make of me after seeing me as like a crew cut.

Secret service agent into a guy like in a long blonde wig with a mustache and looking kind of like The guys from three dog night on crack. Um

[00:34:33] Sarah: Amazing,

[00:34:34] Paul: by the way The other thing to talk about is that there was the introduction introduction of a huge character in which was uh teabag And

[00:34:45] Sarah: his pocket

[00:34:46] Paul: in his pocket which becomes a huge plot point and uh Point of, uh, uh, thorn in Michael's side, a big wrench thrown into his plans [00:35:00] for season after season.

[00:35:02] Sarah: Season after season, and a very much a fan favorite, which is, um, which is both troubling and understandable. Maybe. I mean, he's drawn with such, um, such a thick brush. I remember doing, I think it was between season one and two. Robert and I were invited to the Indy 500.

Um, to, you know,

[00:35:30] Paul: do the Robert Knapper who played

[00:35:32] Sarah: T bag. Yes. Thank you for clarifying, um, to do a lap in the pace car and do some of those events and stuff. And they, they invited a gang of celebrities. Richard Marks was there, which, uh, made my teenage heart all a flutter. Gene Simmons there, which my husband thought was the coolest thing ever.

Um, and his spectacularly beautiful wife. Um, and as we, so the, I found this out at the time that Indy 500 is the largest live sporting event in the world, a [00:36:00] half a million people show up and, um, and we did a lap in the pace car and they went bananas. For Teabag to the point where I was like, I'm not sure this is Healthy

they loved him. The NASCAR set was all about the Bagwell. Wow. But yeah, it was intense. Um, and it's a hell of an introduction.

[00:36:29] Paul: Oh my God. Yeah. It's a hell of an introduction and it's quite a arc. And also, I mean, they named him Teabag and it ended up on network tv.

[00:36:40] Sarah: Yep. And do you think that's because. The people who would have objected didn't know.

Yes. A thousand percent. What do you think happened when like halfway through the season people started

[00:36:55] Paul: realizing? You know, it's kind of really, I don't know if they [00:37:00] would have realized it quite even that early unless they were really on monitoring, and it wasn't social media yet, though obviously there was an active internet community around this, but I don't.

There wasn't social media though. It wasn't social media. That's

[00:37:14] Sarah: important to,

[00:37:15] Paul: because I remember television without pity in season two, which we can really start talking about later. Yeah. Um, kind of was that season two? It wasn't season one. That's when I became aware of it. That's when, that's when Wentworth sent me some links to check it out.

he did

[00:37:29] Sarah: monitor

[00:37:29] Paul: that quite closely. He did at times. Uh, he was actually very sweet about it. And, uh, but yeah, I wonder, I wonder, , I mean, oh man. Once that cat is out of the teabag, you can't put it back in, so to

[00:37:41] Sarah: speak. Um, we should, by the way, we should find out. We should have one of our, uh, producers on at some point and go, Hey, maybe Paul sharing would know.

Yeah. Um, how did you get this past people? By the way, for those of you who don't know, uh, don't Google it because you'll never be the same. [00:38:00] Just ask a teenager in your life, um, and be prepared for them to be horrified. Upset you. Yeah. And they'll be upset that you asked. Um, but you can say it's for a podcast and I'm sure they'll understand.

Okay. No, they won't. Okay. Uh, let's wrap it up. This episode was really fun. I'm still getting over the toes thing. Yeah. Um, yeah. Thank you for spending a little bit of time with us while we talk about

[00:38:24] Paul: Chicago. Yeah, very, very. I was kind of, uh, when it ended, I was really a little, I was like, maybe we should just Roll right into the next one because I did, it's got, I want to just keep watching,

[00:38:36] Sarah: but I want, but okay.

So our next episode we will have a special guest with us and I'm excited to watch the show with our special guest. So we'll take a beat in between. Thank you. We should have some kind of cool sign off. We should come up with a sign off.

[00:38:54] Paul: I don't even know if that's the music.

[00:38:58] Sarah: Maybe we'll just say, stay out of [00:39:00] prison, kids.

These

[00:39:00] Paul: aren't good sign offs. Yeah. Stay out of prison. And if you go to prison, make sure you get those tattoos.

[00:39:07] Sarah: That's all we have

[00:39:08] Paul: to say.

[00:39:08] Sarah: Bye.

[00:39:30] Paul: Prison Breaking with Sarah and Paul is a Caliber Studio production. Your hosts have been friends, but not besties. Sarah Wayne Callis and Paul Edelstein. Prison Warden has been producer Ben Haber. Keeping us slim and trim in the prison yard has been sound designer and editor Jeff Schmidt, keeping us up to date on the outside world as production assistant drew Austin, letting the world know what's been happening to us in prison is social media manager, Emma Tolkien.

Our music was done by Paul Edelstein. Our prison artist logo and brand designer is John Nunziato and LittleBigBrands. Check them out at [00:40:00] www. littlebigbrands. com. Follow us on Instagram. Prison break podcast, email us at prison breaking at caliber studio. com and call us at 3 P break prison breaking with Sarah and Paul has been a caliber studio production.

Thank you for listening.