Episode 10 Arun Gupta TMH iPhone Recording 1.11.24 - USE THIS ONE Tammy Haddad: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Washington AI Network podcast. I'm Tammy Haddad, the founder of the Washington AI Network, where we bring together official Washington, DC insiders, and AI experts who are challenging, debating, and just trying to figure out the rules of the road for artificial intelligence. This AI revolution has been led by industry and governments are just trying to catch up. My guest today is Arun Gupta, a well-respected venture capitalist and an adjunct professor at Georgetown University and at Stanford. He recently co-authored a new book titled Venture Meets Mission, Aligning People, Purpose, and Profit, to Innovate and Transform Society. Arun, man, that's a big one. He talks about the immediate need for government and the private sector to harness technology. Arun is also calling our tech leaders and innovators one of the great superpowers of our country. Let's first go to Mission, Tech, and Entrepreneurship. Arun Gupta: Well, Tammy, first, thank you for having me here [00:01:00] today. Look, as far as starting with mission. You're right. We talk about in the book, as I think there's two superpowers in our liberal democracy. You look at our ability to harness and create talent in this country, our higher ed ecosystem, and then the others, our entrepreneurial ecosystem, our ability to innovate. Both of those ecosystems are orders of magnitude better than anywhere else in the world, and that's evidenced by the number of people that still come here to do both. But what we now need to do is harness those two. In great power competition as our strategic differentiators to align those around larger government ambitions. Tammy Haddad: So you're saying, attach technology to the mission of government, right? It's to, really Arun Gupta: it's to align our innovation ecosystem around the mission of government. And aligning and creating the infrastructure and pathways to connect that innovation. But also importantly, the talent to go in and solve these big problems. Arun Gupta: Because at the same time that these are our superpowers, we're not going to solve climate without government. We're not going to solve cyber without [00:02:00] government. We're not going to have national security without government or health care or global food insecurity. So government has a role and it's an important role and we have to acknowledge the scale and reach that government has and so creating that alignment and creating a renewed partnership between government and entrepreneurs Because I think entrepreneurs in a world that's changing so quickly and so rapidly are the ones that you need to be able to bring to the table to help solve these problems, basically building the plane while you're flying it. Tammy Haddad: So the goal of the Washington AI Network is exactly what you're talking about. We have this new AI technology, and we have government's attention. What would you like them to do? What do you think they should be doing today? Arun Gupta: Well, what we need with government, first of all, so much of it starts with talent. And so thinking about how we bring in the right talent inside of government to help us think about how to solve these problems and what the real implications are of the technology that we're creating is, I think, necessary before we even get into policy development. Because [00:03:00] having folks develop policy that don't really understand the implications of the technology that they're trying to regulate isn't, has its own unintended consequences to it. And so I think the talent piece is the most important piece right now that we could be getting in government. Tammy Haddad: Right now we've got the executive order from the president. We've got the Senate totally focused, and the House, focused on coming up with policy answers. So are you saying that we need to get More talent in now to make decisions on regulation, because that's what we're really talking about at this point. Arun Gupta: Yeah, I think we need more, we need more talent in now to understand the implications of the regulations that we're talking about. But also how to leverage, AI inside of government for ourselves. There's a lot of operational efficiencies. I think there's a lot of things that people talk about, about the, the dark side of what AI could lead to. But there's a lot of benefit that we gets overlooked, right? And bringing in people that can help us really think about that in a more meaningful way. When you think about the real differentiator around AI, it's really data, [00:04:00] right? And you think about who, who harnesses the most data out there right now. It's our government agencies. So how we can harness that data in a more, in a positive way to help solve larger social problems becomes, I think, a real strategic benefit for us. Tammy Haddad: What do you think government should be doing with all their data? At this point? Arun Gupta: Look, I think the more you can open up that data to make it available to folks to be able to use and, you know, this all started back in the 08, 09 timeframe with the data. gov initiatives, making that more available for folks to be able to build apps and be able to use that in a more meaningful way, I think becomes incredibly helpful. Again, this is where the entrepreneurial mindset comes in, which is you don't know exactly what it could lead to. But unless you put it out there, you don't allow that innovation and testing and learning to take place. But you need to do that in a confined sandbox. And I think that's the, the opportunity there for them to play with. Tammy Haddad: Well, I know, you know, Senator Mark Warner, because he gave you the most incredible. blurb for your book, which we'll get to in a minute. [00:05:00] But you're talking to these folks. What are you hearing back from them? Do they understand the talent issues? Arun Gupta: Yeah. Look, Senator Warner been fortunate to call him a friend and a partner for over 20 years. He gets it. And it, it's what worries him, it's the talent piece. Is how do we get more, better talent in here? Not only in an acute, immediate manner, but over a sustained manner as well. So I, I do think he gets it. I do think at the same time, look, as we head into a 24 election and you think about our own capital markets, the concern around disinformation that can only be amplified with AI is a concern. Tammy Haddad: That's a tough one. So what is your take on these insight meetings that Senator Schumer and Young have been putting together to educate members on technology and what's happening in AI? Do you think that's sort of bridging a little bit of the talent and I would argue education gap? [00:06:00] Arun Gupta: It is. You need more of it. You know, what I've heard though, is that, while these were being well attended early on the attendance is starting to, there's a little bit of fatigue kicking in as people feel like these problems are so complex that you go to like the near term problem to go solve. So sustaining that and, you know it's going to be the real question mark here, right? It's sustaining that the need. And this is where I think, you know, getting additional talent in that's really focused on these topics because there's so many other things that are happening around the world that people can get distracted with. Tammy Haddad: There's been a lot of criticism of some of the AI fellows that have been integrated into Capitol Hill into the White House. Really, the kind of people you're talking about where you've got younger people, very experienced AI and technology experts who are trying to help craft policy. So while you're talking about we need more talent, the talent that's there is being criticized. I don't know. Maybe that's just politics. [00:07:00] Arun Gupta: Yeah. I mean, I think it is a little bit of politics. I can't speak to the overarching criticism around it, but, you know, I think at the core of it is I think anytime you create a group that is viewed that isn't integrated with the agencies, you always have a little bit of us and them culture. And I think that's what's happening here. When we talk about bringing talent in it's not as a SWAT team, but it's someone that gets, you know, it's folks that are getting integrated into the agencies in a more meaningful way. And I think, you know, Commerce, I know, is looking at this very aggressively. There are other agencies. DOD as well that are, that are on the forefront of how to do this. But I think the how you integrate the talent in and how you bring them in is incredibly important. Tammy Haddad: We interviewed Admiral Whitworth from the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency a couple weeks ago. And he made it sound like the most exciting place to work. You know, people always think CIA is exciting. But it looks [00:08:00] as if DOD is really on the front lines of all this technology. You've been in this space a long time. What's your take? Others worry that the government's behind. Arun Gupta: Look, it depends what you What we say by behind. If it's in the development of AI, we may be behind. When you compare it to the private sector. Like if you, if you speak to, like a Drew Cukor that's over at JP Morgan now that used to run the Jake. You know, he would say the quantity of talent and the quality of talent that he has there. You know, he could just hire more people. Having said that, I think the types of problems you can work on and the way you can apply this technology and the implications of those problems are much greater on the government side. Right? And so if you're, if you're, you know, someone at NGA or anywhere in DoD I think that's the adrenaline rush, right? That's the, that's the opportunity of really inspiring this next generation of saying, [00:09:00] like, where can you make the biggest difference? Like, is it AI to optimize ads or is it AI to save lives? And I think the government can provide that platform to do the latter in a much more meaningful and scalable way. Tammy Haddad: Do you think there should be one government agency that oversees AI and regulates AI? Arun Gupta: Look, whether I believe there should or shouldn't be, I just don't think it's realistic. The second thing is I feel like AI needs to be embedded in all the agencies as opposed to one agency that feels responsibility for it. But the pragmatic piece is, you know, I just don't see a new agency getting created. And so how do we kind of infiltrate you know, this talent into across these agencies is I think the bigger challenge. Tammy Haddad: Well, it sounds like President Biden agrees with you because, in the executive order, he wants to add 400 400 AI experts [00:10:00] into each agency. A little bird tells me that they've only selected 20 so far. If you were in charge of that, how would you make it happen? Arun Gupta: You know, look, it. Part of this is at what levels, right? Arun Gupta: I actually would be, you know, thinking that you almost have a little bit more of a pyramid scheme. Trying to get 400 people that are all experts to kind of come in that are, you know, 10 years out or 20 years out could be more challenging. Having said that, bringing in a few of them, but then supplementing them with a cohort of rock star students coming out of school that are, probably equally capable. Arun Gupta: You know, I do think sometimes we fall into this trap of feeling like the time and experience and I just think that there's a lot of young talent that could come in with the right direction and make a big difference. And that younger talent is going to be easier to bring in. One, I think they're more mission driven. I think they're, you know, they're at a stage of their career [00:11:00] where they want to do something like this. And if you can show them the impact that they're having you can, you can hit those numbers in more meaningful way. Tammy Haddad: Well, young people are really against government now. I would argue, you know, if you look at the larger polls, not just. Government, larger institutions. Now, you're teaching at both of these amazing schools. How do you, how do you explain to them the mission of government? How do you make them think it's a super cool thing? Arun Gupta: Yeah, no, it's a, it's a great question. So, like, I was teaching a class and it was the inspiration for the book at Stanford called Valley Meets Mission. And the, the overarching thesis of the class was really kind of, how do you kind of talk to these students around taking their entrepreneurial zest? And not wasting it on Candy Crush 3. 0, but let's go solve big problems. And the biggest of those problems will require some level of collaboration with government, because you don't solve, again, climate, cyber national security without that. But do it in a for profit way, right? And so, you [00:12:00] know, what I saw when we would bring in speakers, and Mike Morrell, former CA director, would say, well, he's like, what I love about your class is 45 percent of the students hate government. Right. The other 45 percent hate entrepreneurial capitalism, and you're trying to land the plane by the end of the course that we need both if we're going to solve big problems. And I will say that while we would have, you know, little rocky conversations along the way, by the end that's where the students ended up. And I think the way they end up there is that you need to humanize government. It's an easy soundbite to say government's bad, but then you have to double click and ask them, well, what is the government to you? And, you know, Morel and others, you know, Warner and as they speak to these students would inspire them because they realize, like, after an hour and a half of listening to them talk and engaging with them that these are really thoughtful people that are trying to do their best, that have positive intent, that don't always get it right. Right? And admit they don't always get it right. But that's what an organization is. Like a [00:13:00] government's really just, you know, break down government into its molecular level. It's an, it's a group of people, and then it's individuals trying to make decisions. And you're also separating out civil servants from politicians. Which is a really important distinction. Because 99 percent of government is going into work every day trying to do the best they can. Tammy Haddad: Right, and they're not political people. Arun Gupta: And they're not political people, right? And I think even those small things was opening up these kids eyes. I think the biggest thing though, when you get to how do you make it cool, is really talking about the mission. Right? Like, what are the problems that are solved? And I do think this is where government and the recruiting process fall short. I think you know, and we're trying to help with this a little bit with what we're doing at NobleReach, but the government sells careers. Students are buying experiences. Like, my kids, your kids, they're not thinking about 30 year careers. So, telling them about, like, here's what you can do for 30 years kind of falls on deaf ears. Telling them that here's a great two to three year experience you can have, I think it [00:14:00] becomes really interesting. The government I think, you know, we joke around sells jobs and the students are buying mission. Don't tell me what I'm doing, tell me why I'm doing it, right? So back to your NGA example, I could say, here's a job to be a data analyst. It doesn't sound that great. Or I could say this is a job to take that same data analyst position and saying, you're going to be looking at geospatial information to help rebuild food networks in Ukraine. That's exciting. And kids will sign up for that. And we saw that with our interim program over the summer. Is that when you talked about the mission, and you talked about the why that becomes really exciting. Tammy Haddad: Talking about the same agency, they're testing the permafrost, right? NGA actually has all the data. So they can tell you the advancement of climate change. You've addressed it in your venture work and also in the book. Can you talk about climate change and what you think the opportunities are? Arun Gupta: Yeah, I mean, look, I think that the opportunities are massive right now. You know, look at the work that Department of [00:15:00] Energy and the LPO group led by Jigar Shah is doing. Where they're looking to support entrepreneurs with capital to go build solutions to help us hit our climate goals. And, in the book and in the way we talk about this, Tammy you know, while there's a lot of pessimism out there we write the book in a very optimistic tone because we think this is a generational opportunity. I honestly believe and, you know, I say this because I've got kids in college, but I've also been teaching that there's never been a time where you can mobilize capital around people, purpose and profit like you can today, right? And so you know, even five years ago or 10 years ago to be able to raise capital to go solve some of these kinds of problems. It wasn't available in the same way. And what's changed is, I think, a few things. One, we've got a decade of early success stories of companies that have really broken out and created real outlier kind of [00:16:00] returns. Tammy Haddad: Like what? Arun Gupta: You look at SpaceX. You look at Palantir. You look at Ginkgo Bioworks. Commonwealth Fusion. I mean these are large unicorn companies that have brought in hundreds of millions and billions of capital. Tammy Haddad: And also changed how people live, work, and how we fight wars. Arun Gupta: Yeah. And also what they've done is they've created a diaspora of alums that now understand the power of this. And, they're showing that the government can be a place that you start your business. It's not easy. But it is a place that you can go try to tackle some of those problems. Tammy Haddad: And do you feel like government, and specifically DOD, the national intelligence community, is more interested in hearing from outside voices? Arun Gupta: Yeah, I, I, look. Can it be better? Absolutely. But has there been a, a real shift taking place? You look at the, you know, the work that's being done with Cat Hicks and Joy over at at DOD and trying to [00:17:00] engage more effectively with bringing in tech and the way they're engaging with the, the broader community, the setting up of DIU with Doug Beck going over there. You know, here's a senior executive from Apple now coming over. Those, those kind of talent hires are really important. They send a strong signal to how we want to collaborate. The setting up of the Office of Strategic Capital is a way to kind of collaborate with venture firms and invest in firms to, on early stage technology. So There's definitely, and look, I think the standard bearer of a lot of this stuff has been In Q Tel which has now been around for 25 years and continues to do great work. Tammy Haddad: Talk more about what they do. Arun Gupta: So, In Q tel started up as, you know funded by the agency, but what they've been doing is identifying technology and venture backed technology out there with the thesis of like, how do we get the best tech into our intelligence community? And they've done a phenomenal job under the [00:18:00] leadership of both Chris Darby, and then most recently now, Steve Bauscher, who's become president in scaling that in a meaningful way, not only here in the U. S. but in what we're doing with our partners and our allies overseas. And their track record's phenomenal. They have found a way to kind of really take our best technology out there and create a symbiotic relationship with how you kind of connect them to the agency in a, in a much more meaningful way. Which is viewed as collaborative and not adversarial. Right? And so, even in the book, Tammy, what we try to do is highlight These, these stories exist, so a lot of the book is storytelling about here's what people are doing, here's what, what's working. Now the question is, how do we do more of it, and how do we make this the norm rather than the outlier, right? Tammy Haddad: Is that what you're trying to do with Noble Reach? Arun Gupta: That's what we're trying to do. So when we look at what we're doing at Noble Reach, Tammy is it's an An offshoot of the book, we have a close to half a billion dollar [00:19:00] endowment. And again, around the thesis of two things: one, how do we get better innovation around government? And then how do we get better talent around government? On the innovation side, we're collaborating closely with DARPA and NSF. Where we were able to collaborate with them about Taking research that they've developed and seeing how we can kind of help commercialize that in a more meaningful way with the venture community and then bring that back to solve larger problems. Arun Gupta: And then on the talent side we're trying to help really rebuild the infrastructure, right? Whereby we're targeting both first career talent, so they think Teach for America model where, Tammy Haddad: Well, why can't there be an AI for America model where you go into government for two years and work in AI or technology? Arun Gupta: Well, there can be, and I think a lot of, it's interesting you say that a lot of the demand that we're seeing for what we're doing is around that. Right? It's the agency saying, like, hey, if you can help us get talent that will play the AI role. [00:20:00] Now, we're intentionally trying to be even broader than just AI, because I think it, it It includes bio, it includes cyber, it includes materials, when you think about the ChIPs Act. Tammy Haddad: And anyone can apply? Arun Gupta: And we're going to start recruiting next week on college campuses. We're also looking at students that have maybe already been one or two years out of school. We're going to do our first cohort over the summer or start in the summer boot camp format and then they go into the agencies and, and, and work. But we'll provide them a cohort based experience where they get together regularly, have learning modules Tammy Haddad: All in D.C.? Arun Gupta: All in D.C. Right. Is, is currently what we're planning. But the idea here is while this will be our pilot program of, with 25 to 30 students, we brought on board the former executive director of the PIF program, the Presidential Innovation Fellows Program, who we felt fortunate was running that program for the White House, wanting to come over here. And partially because it was an opportunity [00:21:00] to say, hey, look, while we want to start at 25 to 30, the vision would be to try to scale this, right, to hundreds and, you know and, and, and beyond much like Teach for America, right is that we, to your point, we should have a service program where students can feel that they can come in for a year or two. And that it's, it's, it's branded in a way with private sector partners that they view it as a career enhancer. It's their way of serving and giving back. And look, we've, generationally we've done this, right? Like, this isn't new. We've done the Peace Corps, right? We did, we did AmeriCorps. Which is really the offshoot of really what, you know, built Teach for America. And now, you know, this is what we're and how do we provide that access to have them be able to kind of come in and do that and, and collaborate with those existing fellowships as well that are out there. Tammy Haddad: I like that because [00:22:00] there's so many people who think that, young people who think that government and technology is so separate from them. And so you're actually giving them opportunities. What do you do with the students and any people you meet who are deathly afraid of AI and think it's the end of the world? Arun Gupta: Yeah, I mean, look, I don't know if there's anything that we, we, we do, but caution them of like, We remind them that people felt like this when the internet was coming around. Look, if you go back in, in history and start reading the news clips of what the internet was going to do to society and how it was going to, you know and, and look, it's had far, it doesn't mean it hasn't had some negative implications, but I think there, I think we would all agree there's far more good that's come out of it than not. And so I think the, the technology implications here well, can be scary. I think that's more human nature. That change is scary, right? And we tend to focus on the negative. And we [00:23:00] overlook all the positive potential. That doesn't mean we don't need to put guardrails in place and things of that sort. And we need to take this seriously. But I think we we also can't lose sight of all the great benefit that this could provide. I mean, you think about, like, how this could revolutionize education and people that don't have access to education you know, creating a more level playing field by having personal tutors and things of that sort. And Sal Khan does a great TED Talk on this. You can go down the line of the positive implications of that. And so I think we can't lose sight of that. And so I think that's the really the way we we talk about it. Tammy Haddad: So let's turn to the companies. Let's start with open AI. Were you surprised by the management issues and the structural issues as someone who's put so many of these companies together and done, you know, so many investments. Arun Gupta: Yeah. Yes and no. And here's why. Less so. So, you know, I think the story of open AI [00:24:00] that doesn't get covered as, as much as it's really a governance story. Right. Open AI started as a not for profit. And a not for profit has a different mandate. Right? And the mandate of the board was around ethical AI. And then they created a subsidiary, which is, everything was totally fine. And that subsidiary had a more for profit motive. Which is fine too. And at some point, unless you create a separate board, you have conflicting goals. For what the board cares about and what maybe the management team cares about. Tammy Haddad: Right. Also what you've written in your bylaws. Arun Gupta: And what your investors care about. And so to me it wasn't when you look back on it, a complete surprise that at some point, without having created a separate board, for the for profit entity that, included the investors and things of that sort, which is, now the process that they're going through, [00:25:00] which is reflective of what the new open AI is about, is, is a process that needed to happen, right? So I don't think anything, anyone was actually wrong in this process. You know, people are demonizing the, the old open AI board for asking these questions. Tammy Haddad: One of whom's on at Georgetown. Arun Gupta: At Georgetown, she's, she said, but I'm like, you have to remember that was why they were on the board. That was their mandate. So they're asking the questions that they were on the board for because they're wearing a not for profit hat on, because that's the board that they're sitting on. And so I think this is just a natural evolution but it's a governance story, right? And I think that gets lost because OpenAI came into visibility as a for profit, right? Like everyone really knew came to know about it when they I do chat GPT. By that point, that was the focus of the business. And how they got there was lost. Tammy Haddad: So what about the other big companies that [00:26:00] have taken the lead in AI this year? Is there any that you think we should look at and say, "this is a really good model." Maybe it is OpenAI, or Anthropic, you name the company. This is a really good model, and you're going to see more of it next year, or the next generation of AI is going to be. Do you have a crystal ball? Do you want to tell us a little bit about that? Arun Gupta: You know, I don't, and I say that because of the following. I think we're so early in this game, right? That We don't know what we don't know yet. Tammy Haddad: But you still invest, right? Arun Gupta: Yeah. Tammy Haddad: You probably have so many of these companies coming to you. What are you looking for? Arun Gupta: So, for us, I mean, the big companies like the open AIs, the Anthropics, etc. It is really hard for someone like myself to really think about who wins. Where it's more tangible for me is where you look at someone that's building an AI solution with an [00:27:00] application, so someone's doing it for legal or someone's doing it for medicine. And you can understand what the problem is that they're solving. Yeah. That one is a little bit more tangible for me. And so that's where I would be investing is around where there's a real applied. So it's not the Infrastructure. Tammy Haddad: Right? It's what's above built on it. Arun Gupta: Yeah. Tammy Haddad: Interesting.. What do you worry about in terms of AI researchers and universities? How are you going to get enough money, even Stanford, even like Johns Hopkins down the road here to keep up with these companies because the costs are so high. Or are you not worried about it? Arun Gupta: Yeah, I mean, look, I think the way they're going to do that is that they're going to keep collaborating because what the universities have is talent, right? And I think that a lot of these large corporations are going to want to collaborate with these universities to have access to that talent to, to work on. And so in that context, I'm less concerned about the university's ability to continue to [00:28:00] innovate. Because so much of their research is so far ahead of where these companies are thinking about because they're thinking about solving tomorrow's problems. Whereas university researchers are really thinking three to five years out, if not further. And so I just think there'll be more of a symbiotic relationship there. Tammy Haddad: In the book, you talk about AI and technology and how it can help fix some of the biggest societal issues. We already talked about climate change, disease, outbreaks, food insecurity. Is there anything that you could point us to, to say, "this is something you really should look out for, this is happening now, and maybe we can fix food insecurity." Arun Gupta: Yeah, I mean look, I think the implications around AI on bio is huge. And, and what you can see the, it brings down dramatically the cost to test an experiment on [00:29:00] solutions that we couldn't have, you know, and compresses the length of time to run those experiments in a way that we couldn't have done five years ago. Tammy Haddad: So what kind of bio? Arun Gupta: When we're talking about pharma, new medical solutions you know, think about how we think about vaccines you know, all of that is radically going to change in my mind because it's so data intensive and the ability now to run thousands of experiments simultaneously versus doing tens changes the scale and magnitude about the kinds of solutions that we can come up with. When I talk to folks, even in the national security side, I think the place they, they see the biggest growth is, is the bio revolution that's in front of us. And that has implications also on, on food insecurity, right? And agriculture and, and things of that sort as well. But I think the application of AI on that front can [00:30:00] be will be very transformative. Tammy Haddad: Well, that's a hopeful note to end on. Now this sounds like a movement to me, and I feel like you should go all around the country talking about this book, Venture Meets Mission. Are you going to do that? Arun Gupta: So look, Timmy we were talking about this before the you know, we got on air, like, you know, we, we started with just trying to write the book to see, you know, to capture some thoughts and observations from the class that I was teaching and as we've now started sharing this with, you know, universities and corporations and young students we're finding that it's resonating in a way that we hadn't really anticipated. And now that we have Noble Roots set up as a foundation, especially on the talent side, we're seeing this real demand for connecting this talent in this way. And so to answer your question, you know, we are starting to feel like this could be [00:31:00] a bigger kind of movement. Not to compare it to it, but if you think of what Teach for America has done for education and at least It's bringing it into the consciousness of folks whether you are part of it or not. What we're trying to do, right, is bring it into the consciousness of students, entrepreneurs, policy makers about how do we collaborate. But also, I think the heartwarming piece of this is, you know, as Tammy, being in a, in a very polarized city of D. C. has been that whether it's a D or an R, everyone has agreed. Everyone. When we talk about what we're doing about trying to bring better talent and better innovation into government usually the first question is, how can we help? And that says something, right? That says something about, like, you know, in, in a place where we don't agree on a lot of things, we agree on like, we can, we will do better as a country if we get better talent and better innovation around government ambitions. And with that role. [00:32:00] Now that doesn't mean government's playing a role in getting in your life more, you know, but what we're saying is that there is a role. And we need to think about this renewed partnership. So we are going to be going around. We've got a lot of speaking engagements at universities. We'll be on the West Coast, New York, Chicago, Florida, and Arizona, Arizona State, for example. And going out to Purdue. We are going to be traveling around a bit. But, if I'm honest with you, this is all unfolding real time, right? We're kind of realizing the demand as we're, as we're getting out there. Tammy Haddad: Well, just like AI. Arun Gupta: We just launched. No, it is a little bit like that. We just launched the book formally on Tuesday. and we've been overwhelmed with the support and the demand that people have had. And I think number one now on Amazon is bestseller in there for business. Tammy Haddad: Bravo. Arun Gupta: And entrepreneurship.. Tammy Haddad: That's great. Arun Gupta: And that surprised us, right? Tammy Haddad: Well, I think people are looking for mission. [00:33:00] I think they want to make a difference. And you've really tapped into that. I can't thank you enough for being here. Arun Gupta: Tammy, I couldn't thank you enough for having me. And thank you for the great work you're doing with the AI Network. Tammy Haddad: Well, I'm thrilled for you to be part of it. Arun Gupta: Look forward to it. Tammy Haddad: Good luck. Thank you so much. Arun Gupta: Thank you.