You're listening to A Climate Change. This is Matt Matern. I'm your host, and I've got Marianne Williamson on the program a special treat. Marianne is a best selling author. She's authored about 15 books for have hit the New York Times bestseller list. Currently, Marianne is running for the Democratic nomination. She also ran in 2020. She ran against President Joe Biden.

And Marianne, I understand your run as I ran against Trump in 2020. And my goal there was, it was to weaken him. So he wouldn't win the general election. And I supported then Biden and 2020 against Trump, and started a Super PAC to run ads designed to help Biden and criticize Trump.

Now, to me, Trump is still the existential threat to the United States and to the environment. And Joe Biden, even though he isn't perfect, he's, he's he has done some of the best work on the environment of any of the US presidents. So my question is Why run against Biden, if you risk weakening him and increasing Trump's chance to win in 2024?

Well, first of all, I believe he's a weak candidate, period, the President is sinking in the polls, he's a 30 something now. And even on the issue of climate, it's interesting how you described it, because I don't see it the way that you just did. I know that he calls himself the climate president. But I'm sure you're aware that even though there are healthy investments in green energy, and the inflation reduction act as he continues and rightfully to boast about, the truth of the matter is that he has also done more investment in dirty energy than those before him.

Remember, he has given more oil drilling permits than even trumped it. Plus, he has Okay, the willow project, the $8 billion ConocoPhillips oil extraction program in Alaska, and he has now approved the LNG project on the North Slope of Alaska. So this is not some climate president, this is someone who invest in green and invest so much in dirty that it actually nullifies the effects of the green.

Um, so I don't see where he is some great climate president. And I think the fact that many traditional environmental organizations have endorsed him is a sad statement about about the movement, because to me, that just makes him makes you almost a conspirator. And I've heard that when asked about that many of these organizations have said, Well, who else do we have? Well, that's just based on a lie.

Maybe I can tell you based on my own climate plan, you do have someone else, but these are organizations that want to stay in, you know, they want to stay in the in the crowd with the cool kids. They want to feel that their phone calls will be returned by the White House, even though that may or may not make any difference in what's actually happening in terms of the environment.

And I think that entire system absolutely need to be challenged. Young people particularly are not stupid about environmental issues. And when the President calls him a climate himself, the climate President given how much he's done, ie with the willow project, ie with more oil drilling permits than even Trump gave, you know, my concern, and I do agree with you when you talked about Trump being an existential threat.

But I think we're not looking at this the wrong way. I don't think Trump is the danger. People who love Trump are going to vote for Trump and we could indict him 91 more times, people will still vote for him who love Trump, you could put him in prison, people who love Trump is still going to vote for Trump.

Our biggest danger is people staying home. And I think on the issue of climate, that's where part of the biggest danger is, you've got an entire generation of young people, I'm sorry, they're not going to vote for the willow project, no matter how many times we talk about how he's done more than any other president. He's also done a lot of damage.

Well, certainly, what you're saying is correct that oil drilling is up and we are pumping more oil than we've ever pumped ever. And we are the number one oil producing country in the world. So to a certain extent, those companies that are doing the drilling are private entities that are entitled under US law to pump boy. Oh, whether that's right, or, you know, is another question, but Biden couldn't necessarily stop that he is encouraged. He didn't.

He didn't have to give those first of all, he didn't have to give those privates. No,

I agree with you that he didn't have to give those permits. So you know, hey, I have to give you a push back or else we wouldn't have a show. Go here. So I mean, I hear what you're saying. So I'll ask you the question, How would a Marianne Williamson presidency differ from a Biden presidency on the environment?

Well, first of all, I wouldn't lie. Because that's the big lie. The idea that he's the climate president, given the fact that he is getting more oil drilling permits, when it comes to big oil, whether it's a Democrat or Republican, we're living at a time when they fall in line, it's as simple as that. Why is that? Because of all the, because of the corporate donations that are given by Big Oil, everybody knows this. When it comes to environment, many other issues, you need a president in there who's simply not playing along, who isn't one of them, who's only there for one term anyway.

So you're not even thinking about whether or not the oil companies will come after you. And then in your next election, I think it's going to take a president who is willing to declare a climate emergency. You know, I'm being very clear with people in this campaign about what I would do. And what I would do is immediately begin a mass mobilization for just transition from a dirty economy to a clean economy, these these not only incremental efforts, but efforts that are based on this false narrative anyway, is not going to save us. It's time for the American people to recognize the severity of the issue.

And we need a president who's not posting fussing pussyfooting around it. The Democrat, the Democratic playbook that the President deals with, is one in which Democratic voters are snickered all the time. They say the right thing to be honest, Barack Obama started this and Obama just Biden continues. They say what we want to hear. And because they say what we want to hear, we then think, Oh, well, since he said that, since in this case, for instance, he has said that he sees climate change as the great existential threat to the planet. Yay, Joe, he said that, but then look at what he did, and what he didn't do.

So with me, you're getting much more blunt talk with the American people. Now the chances are given that first of all, as I know already, because of how they're seeking to invisible eyes, me, there are huge forces that do not want the kind of blunt authentic talk that I'm having to be present present in this campaign. So therefore, the the, the chances of the American people like waking up to what's really going on in this election, and voting for someone who were saying this anyway, are less than Joe Biden getting elected, because everybody's just going along with these false narratives.

However, on the other hand, were we to get elected, we'd really go for it, because the American people would know that, that's what I said. And by voting for me, they would have had in said, we are enrolled, let's get at it, we need a world war two level mass mobilization. And we've got to stop allowing our environmental policies to be determined by Big Oil.

These corporations, whether it's insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, big oil, defense contractors, domain directors, any of them, they are currently actually more powerful, and the way things are actually unfolding in this country than the US government. The US government is just their bitch. That's really what's happening here. And we need a president who will say so, and a president who will start to change direction.

Last time we talked about two years ago, you recommended we stop using fossil fuels. And my question to you is, how soon can this be done? And what's your plan to do it?

Well, people can look at Marianne2024.com, my climate action plan is quite extensive. Obviously, we can't be chaos agents. This is a transition that we're talking about here. It's probably 2050. Before all fossil fuel, transportation elements are off the roads, we understand that, but we can get about it.

There's a difference between small piecemeal incremental change, and simply a wise strategic change that is responsible, that gets the job done without you know, nobody wants to be a bound to our here. I certainly don't. But we need to turn this ship around. We need to do it wisely. And we need to do it responsibly.

Well, quite frankly, what I haven't seen enough of is that strategically on a foreign policy level, we are well served by getting off of fossil fuels because of our addiction to fossil fuels and the addiction of the rest of the planet to fossil fuels. We've been bowled in, you know, Saudi Arabia, the Middle East, Iran, and Russia, and have fed, you know, billions of trillions of dollars into their pockets.

And they tend to fund things that we're not really interested in, and they're not really our best friends. So just from the standpoint of our own self interest in a foreign policy standpoint, we should get off of fossil fuels, but that argument doesn't seem to be being made enough.

Well, I'm all for being energy independent, but I want to be green energy independent, I want a massive transfer of resources and the direction of the development of a green energy grid.

So how do we individually and collectively beat this addictive cycle? We wake up in time to vote for someone, as President, and then also, obviously vote for Congress, people and senators who are laying it down this honestly and this bluntly, and go about making the change, we need a massive transfer of resources in the direction of the development of green energy grid, and we need a mass mobilization, which by the way, would create millions of jobs. But without a buy in from the people, it won't happen.

And that's another reason why I believe I could, as President powerfully contribute to all this with the use of the bully pulpit, to inspire people, you know, America used to do great things, we're hardwired to want to do great things. And I think one of the reasons everybody is so in such a funk about this country is because nobody even asks us to do great things anymore.

That would be a great thing. It should be something we celebrate, it would it would be a cultural shift, it would be very exciting. But no one's even calling us to it because the people who would call us to it are in the pockets of big oil. And my presidency would represent a disruption of that pattern.

Well, I do agree with you that Biden isn't making the case for why we should all get off fossil fuels as evenly as we as he could be making it. He's kind of walking on eggshells, hey, we'll do some things. But he doesn't want to upset what is what Middle America, whatever he is afraid of upsetting. And he's not making a strong and persuasive case for why this is an urgent effort and requires buy in from the American people.

Well, you're listening to A Climate Change this is Matt Matern. I'm here with Marianne Williamson. And we'll be right back in just one minute.

You're listening to A Climate Change. This is Matt Matern. I've got Marianne Williamson on the program. And Marianne talking about what are the best ways to encourage and incentivize other countries, in particular China and India to immediately cut their level of pollution?

You know, I think the last time we talked you were talking about having the US get its own house in order. And I think, you know, you could make an argument that, hey, the US has at least been decreasing the amount of pollutants it's throwing into the atmosphere, whereas China and India have been increasing. We can't We can't possibly win this global battle. If China and India don't start reducing their pollution immediately, not five years from now, that's going to be too late.

Right?

Well, we should not kid ourselves that we have more power than we do over the governments of either China or India when it comes to these things. So I stay with what I said to you before, let's demonstrate a better way. And there are all kinds of things that China's doing, for instance, that we're not doing that actually help look at their 22,000 miles of high speed trains. High speed rail is a great reducer of, of fossil fuel carbon emissions that we're not doing.

So they are doing a lot of coal plants, they're still producing tons of coal. And, you know, they they could they could reduce those emissions if they wanted to, and they could stop producing coal plants if they wanted to, but they don't really want to stop polluting.

Well, when you said they don't really want to start polluting, you mean, as in I think this is my thought. And this is not an original thought. But it's an idea boy that Europeans are working on and I've seen floated here in the US to is put tariffs on products that are produced with fossil fuels or in environmentally unsustainable ways that don't meet US EPA standards. And, and so it's a fair playing field that we're going to be.

I would totally be open to that conversation.

Right. And so we encourage everybody to play on this playing field that is clean and green, and it'd be good for them and it's good for us too. So now, you had you had on your website, the presidency is not merely an administrative office. That's the least of it. It's pre eminently a place of moral leadership. And that was Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1932. Why is why is that so important? And how do you think that your leadership will change the course of America? Well,

I actually think that the environmental issues, the climate change issues are a perfect example of that. To me, climate change is a moral issue. We have every every time I speak to an audience, I ask people, I say, How many of you are a young person who has said, or have heard a young person say the following question? And if the answer is yes, please raise your hand and keep it in the air so that everybody around can look around the room and see. And the question is this, how many people have heard or said that under normal circumstances, I would be thinking of having children.

But given the state of the planet, I don't think it would be a morally responsible thing to do. Everywhere I go, at least a third of the room puts their hands up. And in one room I was in the other day more than half the people. That is a moral issue to me, that we are behaving in such a way that our own young people don't even think they should bring a child into the world. You know, the left the right has always been more known for issues of private morality. But it used to be that the left was known for issues of public morality. Economic justice, to me is a moral issue. invading a country that didn't even do anything to you is a moral issue.

And to me, the environment is a moral issue. What are we doing to the earth? What are we doing when you look at the consequences that could accrue from the continuation of our irresponsible behavior, you could have whole swaths of continents uninhabitable. Resulting from that would be implosion of ecosystems with pollution and economic systems could be hundreds of millions. For all we know climate refugees, much greater than certainly Western civilization could absorb.

This could be so catastrophic. It could make civilization as we know it uninhabitable. You better believe it. That's a moral issue. And I think that someone who has had a career, making a moral argument, sort of had some, some some background and knowing how to do that, and inspiring people to make the changes that need to be made. Washington is filled with political car mechanics. The problem is, we're on the wrong road. We don't need another technocrat we've got plenty of technocrats here, we need someone who can inspire the American people to a vision.

And the vision I want to inspire people towards is a planet that is repaired. The rivers that are repaired, the ocean that is repaired, the air that is repaired, that you've got right now, 46% of our urban water wells are filled with pee fast. I want to inspire people to the effort that this country could make to clean up our water supply. To make all the changes we're talking about. We need to make this as exciting to people as it was when JFK said we're going to land a man on the moon in 10 years. That's what's what's happening in America today. Nobody's inspired to anything.

Because the political system, the current status quo, doesn't talk to anything noble, and people doesn't talk to anything that truly has to do with why don't we do this for our grandchildren. It speaks only to people's self narrow self interests. And it also speaks to people as though we're stupid. I want you know, my father used to say my father was a lawyer. And he used to say speak to the smartest person on the jury. I find voters not stupid, the poor, I listen, I see a lot of corruption and a lot to be deeply disturbed about running for president, but it's not the American people.

The American people are not the problem. And if we had an inspirational leader, who wasn't lying, who was telling the truth, and he said, and we need to do this and and convinced people that we need to do this, we would get on the road to doing it. And I believe whether it's me or someone else, that's what I believe is gonna have to happen. And that's not Joe Biden, I'm sorry. And it's certainly it's certainly Sal, not Donald Trump.

Well, that that we can definitely agree on it. Certainly not Donald Trump. Well, in terms of spiritual transformation, I think that you're right that it required the environmental problem requires both personal and communal spiritual transformation. And, and you know much more so than the moonshot, the moonshot. Was NASA doing it really for us and us thrown. Yeah, we need more than NASA kind of saving our ass.

That's not going to that's not going to work this time around at all involved, a better now, you're absolutely correct. A better analogy would have been World War II. And everybody Nick did need to be involved. And that's what those fireside chats were about. We didn't have an army. We didn't have. We didn't have the aluminum we needed. Japan was in charge of muscle. They had control most of the places on the planet where they had aluminum.

And Franklin Roosevelt got on the fireside chat, and he said I need your pots and pans. We didn't have the rubber. And that was controlled by the jack. He said I need those old tires. And those old hoses. People used to thin him rubber band balls of rubber bands that were a ton. It would not have happened. It would not we would not have won World War Two.

And I mean that in a way that goes beyond just military personnel. Mostly the Riveter. People were involved at every level of American civilization. Because Roosevelt, and most about knew that he couldn't do it unless he was able to convince people and enroll people. And he did. And that's why he is my political idol.

So speaking of people who are heroes, who would who would be on your Mount Rushmore of heroes not limited to political people? Who would who would you put up there?

Well, I don't know about my Mount Rushmore. And of course, Mount Rushmore is presidents. But if you're asking me who were the people that I admire, politically, obviously, I admire Bernie Sanders. And a figure that I admire greatly today that I think is leading the way in a marvelous way is Shawn Fein over at the UAW and the way he has been willing to stand up to the big three, the way he has stood up to the big three as a labor leader is exactly the way I would stand up as president.

So who about who in the environmental movement, would you say you'd put up there?

Well, I don't know if they call them the environmental movement. And now particularly, but I know window bearer reading window bearers books meant a lot to me.

Okay, so in terms of the top five issues that you think are facing the US, what are those top five issues? And what would you propose to how to address them?

First of all, is the economy. Back in the 1970s, there was a thriving middle class in this country, the average couple could afford a house, they could afford a car, they could afford a yearly vacation, they could afford one parent to stay home if they chose to, and they could afford to send their kids to college. But in the last 50 years, there's been a massive transfer of wealth to the tune of $50 trillion from the bottom 90%, to the one top 1%.

We now have one in four Americans living with medical care, we have over a million people, rationing their insulin, millions of people who can't, by the way, and when I was talking about what it was in the 1970s, one salary could support a family of four. Today, we have millions of people who have to work more than one job just to put food on the table. We have our seniors among our senior population, half of our seniors live on less than $25,000 a year. That's poverty.

So I have again, going back to base on something Ben Franklin wrote about it and economic Bill of Rights. Franklin Roosevelt said that a necessity, this man is not a free man. He talked about not only the freedoms, but the freedom from the freedom from one the freedom from fear. We have 70% of Americans who say that they live with economic anxiety, we have over 60% of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck.

So my economic Bill of Rights calls for universal health care, which by the way, the majority of Republicans as well as Democrats said they want tuition free college and tech school, which we had until the 1970s. And which the majority of Republicans as well as Democrats say they want subsidized childcare, paid family leave. Guaranteed sick pay, guaranteed affordable housing, and guaranteed living wage.

Everything I just said is considered an a moderate position, and every other advanced democracy and those things should be considered moderate in mind. So that's not just one issue here or one policy there. It's a comprehensive view of what we need to do in order to make an economic Uturn. So that, to me, is the most important thing. Secondly, as you and I are talking about, we need a mass mobilization.

I apologize to interrupt you, we're gonna have to go to a break. But stay tuned, everybody, you're listening to A Climate Change. I've got Marianne Williamson on the program. And she's one point into her five top issues. So stay tuned.

You're listening to A Climate Change. And I've got Marianne Williamson on the program. And Marianne, you were just telling us about the top five issues, and you had just told us about your position on the economy. Please tell us about the other issues you think are the top ones facing the nation?

Well, we talked about climate change the declaration of a climate emergency, the mass, the mass mobilization, for a just transition from a dirty economy to a clean economy. That's to number three, I want to establish a department of peace. We need to become a sophisticated and the ways we organize and strategize for peace, as we are when we feel we need to organize and strategize to wage war, we need to wage peace, we need to declare peace, I want to imagine the planet without war in 100 years, and reverse engineer from there.

We are skirting the edges of the possibility of nuclear catastrophe at this time, we need to go back to a much more serious stance on non nuclear Non Proliferation, this is insane. We need to have peace games, just like we have wargames. And I think a lot of people don't realize that peace building is a real thing. peace builders have a certain skill set. And that skill set is based on the fact that there are four factors which statistically mean that when those are present, there will be a lower incidence of peace and a higher incidence that I'm sorry, a higher incidence of peace and a lower incidence of conflict.

Those things are greater economic opportunities for women, greater educational opportunities for children, a reduction of unnecessary human despair and a reduction of violence against women. And I want the Department of peace, to be active with it, which is what we need a peace Academy, just like we have a military academy. And we need that army of peace builders who will be active not only in terms of American cities, domestically, but also in terms of foreign policy.

So that's the Department of peace, then I want the Department of Children and Youth, because American children are at risk in ways that are absolutely unacceptable. We have children who are traumatized before preschool, we have children in elementary schools who are on suicide watch. We have children all over this country who go to schools where there are trauma rooms, we need to ask ourselves what is going on in America, that so many children are traumatized, and one of the reasons they're traumatized, of course, is their own fear that they won't get shot that afternoon.

We now know things about the human brain and the development of the human brain that we didn't even know 15 years ago, neuroplasticity, and so forth. Among other things, we know that 90% of the brain development is within the first five years of life. So I want a massive transfer of resources into the lives of children 10 years old and younger. If we want the kind of country that we want 20 years from now really thriving country, we need to pay far more attention to our 10 year olds today.

And then the last major pillar of my campaign is that we no need to end America's war on drugs. It was bogus when the began with Richard Nixon knew it wasn't Public Enemy. Number one, we spent a trillion dollars, I think the drug war has done more to exacerbate the problem than to fix it. When I was in college, there were 300,000 people in prisons in the United States.

Today, they're 2.3 million 46% of all federal drug for all federal prisoners are there for nonviolent drug offenses, those people should be home with their children. And this is not only a way to help smash the prison industrial complex, it's also a way to help at the southern border, because our drug war actually feeds the drug cartels. So a lot of the immigration that's happening is people trying to escape the horrifying violence of the drug cartels by our ending the drug war, we take away a lot of their black market. It'll put a dent in things.

We need to treat drug addiction as a health issue not as a criminal issue the way we do now we need to do it the way places like Portugal do it. And then what will happen is for that 100 billion that we spend every year, give me a fraction of that. And we can have a world class network of recovery options help people get sober. I don't want a drug As our I want a recoveries are. And all of those things together that I just mentioned, will initiate a season of repair on this country and a new beginning, a new chapter in American history, we need it desperately.

That's also the way to be Trump or whomever the Republican is in 2024. By offering people a better deal, offering people a much better life, we're not going to win in 2024 by just saying, Be scared, be very scared. That worked in 2020. And for good reason, but it's not going to work this time. We have to offer something that genuinely inspires people and makes them think that could better their lives. Well,

I certainly like your idea, that peace department in particular, that's a great idea, and something that we should be investing in, it's crazy that we don't and of course, taking care of our children is the best investment we can make. So that, again, I I appreciate the end of the drug war. I mean, I get why we should decriminalize a lot of this stuff. But you know, that's probably a longer conversation and I want to pivot to something else.

You've written a lot and spoken about about women as being leaders and how they be more likely to protect the environment. And I, I generally tend to agree with you. I also have had a history and I've represented over 200 Different women who have been sexually assaulted and harassed in the workplace.

And what I've been just stunned by is that the me to organization has failed to condemn Hamas is brutal rapes and murders of Jewish women. And I wanted to ask you to join me in calling on the MeToo movement to condemn that act of violence against women.

I have tears in my eyes when you say that. I am a Jewish woman, and I couldn't agree with you more. Where are the great American feminists? Where's Elon’s slur? Where are all these feminists, where are all these people who spend all their time. It's not even just me, too. It's so far beyond me, too. I couldn't agree with you more. And thank you for saying it.

Yeah, I mean, I believe that, you know, women have to stand up, how can they allow this to happen to any woman to allow this to be happened to any woman is, is just violence that would only exacerbate this against another population of women. You know, if this is green, lighted as to a group of Jewish women, it will be the norm as to the next war, you know.

So this violence is not going to get any better. And if you have principles, that women should not be violated, it has to stand for all women, or else it's a farce. But what happened that goes so far beyond violations violation. It was pure evil. It was barbarism. I defy anyone to read those articles. And still, some of those people are saying we don't have the evidence, we have plenty of evidence and read one of those articles. And I I don't know how anyone can it's unbelievable how what's happening?

Well, I certainly, you know, join with you and standing up to anybody who's denying this and I appreciate your your stand on that. We certainly seen a share of toxic masculinity and that was the you know, archetypal.

No, that's pure evil. That was ISIS. These are people that are like ISIS. And there are people actually apologizing for Hamas right now. There are people making excuses for him off, you know, you can have tremendous empathy and compassion for Palestinians, which I do, you can feel very strongly about Palestinian justice, which I do and which I've been very vocal about for decades, you can completely condemn.

Now, I was policies not only for the last 15 years, which I have done, but also this military action I do. I do condemn it, but none of that should mean that you are remaining silent about what happened on October 7, and very specifically, as you have pointed out, in terms of the extreme ordinary evil of the sexual violence perpetrated. We're talking sexual violence. There aren't even words I once again, if anybody, you know, when you it's truly unspeakable. But the articles are out there and this last Sunday's New York Times article among others.

Right. I certainly think that anybody who hasn't read the New York Times article needs to read it to get a sense of how brutal this assault was. Because you can't cover your eyes to this, you need to look at in the dead in the eye and see how extraordinarily evil it was. So I guess, turning from that subject, you know, as as difficult as that one is, back to this, this race, and what, what you're going to need to do in the next few weeks, and you've got Iowa coming up in two weeks, and you've got New Hampshire coming up in three weeks.

We're gonna go to the break right now, because I think we've and we'll be back in just one minute. And you can tell us about where you're going to pivot and how you can make a move on Biden, and this is very important next few weeks.

You're listening to A Climate Change. This is Matt Matern. And I've got Marianne Williamson on the program. And Marianne, we were just talking about how soon I was coming on January 15. And, you know, the caucuses are a very unusual kind of political event. What, what's your thought as to how those are going and how you're connecting to people in Iowa?

Well, I was in a very different position than it was in the last election, the Democrats have totally moved it. So most of that will be about sending mail in ballots. And that, of course, begins on January 12. The actual last day is not January 15. I can't remember what it is. But it's in February at some point. The New Hampshire primary does take place on January 23.

And, you know, the DNC has from the beginning made it clear that they saw their role as ensuring that Joe Biden would be the nominee. And they have done everything possible, to silence to invisible eyes to marginalize any opposing voice. Even though 70% of Democratic voters have said that they want to hear from other people. They have found willing partners in this in CNN and MSNBC, which has been a big surprise to me.

I heard a CNN town hall last time. I was on regularly on CNN and MSNBC last time I didn't expect this blackballing blacklisting that I have received, and it has the desired effect. To many Americans don't even know that I'm running. When I'm actually talking to people, I'm just fine. Because actually, mine is the agenda that aligns with the majority of us, that the American people, as I said, Americans want universal health care.

Americans want to listen, we call it Americans want a common sense gun safety laws. That's on the Republican side, as well as a Democrat, not as high a majority, but it's there. And so that has humbled me tremendously. There's no doubt about it. People don't know you exist. They're not sending you money. If they're not sending you money, you know, you don't have the money for TV apps. So I'm staying in as long as I can stay on, because I believe that the things that we're talking about on this campaign, including things that you and I have talked about tonight need to be set.

And I'm not saying anything, anybody everybody doesn't know but I'm saying the quiet part out loud The traditional political machine looks at symptoms, but it does not look at root causes. And it doesn't want to bring up a conversation about root cause. Because if you do you see how often their policies were the root cause of so much of the misery that people are experiencing today. So I'm having a conversation to which the current prevailing political media industrial complex is extremely resistant.

So I don't have any illusions about my ability to override any of that. On a on any kind of traditional level the President is, he made it somewhere in a $25 million ad buy a couple of weekends ago, in New Hampshire, even now, my opponent, Dean Phillips is flooding the airwaves with TV ads, we don't have the money for that. But what we do have is, you know, Martin Luther King said, your life begins to end on the day you stop talking about things that matter. I think there's a hunger in this country. There's a yearning in this country, for a more meaningful political conversation.

People in our in their personal lives get real, and they get authentic and they get pretty perspicacious psychologically and emotionally, and spiritually. But when it comes to politics, we've all been trained to farm out our own critical thought processes, to think like a bunch of sixth graders, as though there's some political class who knows better than we do, who treats us like, you don't even worry your head a little head about a week off this day.

So don't call this including the democratic elite, because let me tell you that we're walking into a 2024, that's going to be the same kind of debacle that 2016 was, because there is a complete unwillingness of the Democratic elite to recognize what is going on out there. They think they can just hold the lid, put the lid and suppress any conversation, other than the one that they've decided is the one with which to win, usurping a role that is only supposed to be in the hands of the people, thank you, not of a political party elite.

And I'm in the belly of that beast, I understand their power, I understand what they've done. But I'm going to keep as long as I can, doing what I do. And that's having a conversation with voters, that any of us if we're honest with ourselves know, as much more real, much more adult much more mature. And I think much more responsible to the planet and to future generations. And it's an honor to do so.

And I, you know, a friend of mine set earlier today, and she wasn't just talking about politics, she was talking about all of American society. She said they squash people, they squash, people using money and the message is go away. And it makes people just go away and do what they're told. I'm not that kind of woman. And so I'm holding on as long as I can, so that any voter that I can reach, I do reach, and those voters at least will know that you do have an option.

None of this like is that we mentioned earlier, these traditional environmental organizations who have endorsed Joe Biden. And when asked, have said, well, we don't have any, we don't have anyone else. That's a lie. And I'm going to speak, you know, speak my truth, which is to power as much as I can for as long as I can. And I hope that that's a benefit to someone.

Well, I think it is a benefit. And I applaud you throwing your hat in the ring and being a candidate because I know how difficult it is having tried it myself, and it is it's a marathon. It's challenging. And I think it's a public service to have this conversation. It's unfortunate, quite frankly, and I think you're right that the Democratic party elites are shooting themselves in the foot here because they would benefit by having a healthy dialogue on these issues.

It would enliven the party, it would get the young people excited, it would engage them and and everybody would benefit from it. And the extent that they feel like it's being squelched, like they felt Bernie was being squelched in 2016, they got really ticked off. And then some of them even voted for Trump, which was really, you know, a disaster or staying home or staying home.

Yeah, their party. Right, any of any of the above is, is a disaster for them. So, yeah, it's it's shocking to me that how much power the news media has. And also, you know, why are they doing this, you know, because there's got to be some value to them as a news organization to cover your campaign. You were campaigning at similar percentages to Nikki Haley. But Nikki Haley is getting ink all over the place. And you see her on every news show every night.

And Vivek Ramaswamy had been way ahead in the polls, Chris Christie, Chris Christie, the 2% is ever worse.

Yeah, so this is this is craziness. But, you know, it's unfortunate and and how do you change that? I mean, it's just, I don't I don't know the, you know, give me your ideas on that. I of course, if you could change it, I'm sure you would.

You just keep leaning against the wall, just lean against the wall, just lean against the wall, somebody's going to break through this situation will not continue as it is, is unsustainable, this thing's going to blow. And that's what's so sad about this. This energy that's rumbling in America today is going to fall in one direction or the other. It's either going to fall in the direction of greater democracy and greater justice, a new beginning a more greater social and economic enlightenment, or it's going to fall in the direction of dystopia, chaos, and God help us fascism.

And the fact that the Democratic Party elite are trying to put a lid on the conversation, I believe has the exact effect that you were describing. That, you know, Jancuga has been saying recently, if we were having an if they were allowing a robust democratic debate, we would be having a conversation that counters all the stuff that the Republicans are putting out right now. We're letting the Republicans have all the oxygen.

We're letting the repeat what they think they're helping the Democrats by putting on Chris Christie, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy all the time rather than the Democrats. And if and if the President what he's afraid to debate me or Dean Phillips, but we think he's going to do just great against Donald Trump.

Yeah, it would be a quite frankly, it's a good workout. If nothing else, you know, you got it.

Well, that's exactly what that's what a campaign should be. That is what a campaign is, I can tell you, as someone running and you yourself, everyone, it is a workout every day you're out there, you got to get better on the issues, and you got to learn how to punch the President is. And, you know, I, I don't want to be ageist about this. I'm 71 years old myself. I don't want to be mean. That is, I mean, it's going to take some punching. It's going to take some punching. It's not going to be something you can just sit in a basement this time.

And I you know, I said to an audience today, have you heard the President say one thing about what he would want to do over the next four years. Their messaging has no offering of what they would do over the next four years. It just, you should be grateful for what he did in the last four. I'm sorry, I don't think that's going to inspire a massive vote.

Well, thank you, Marianne, for being on the program. And everybody check out Marianne2024.com. You do have a great website amazing explication of your issues on the website. So everybody check that out. Marianne2024.com.

And, please, you know, support Marianne and her won't run is it is a plus for democracy. So thank you again for being on the program. And we'd love to check back in with you later in the campaign.

Thank you very much. I'm so grateful. Have a beautiful evening.

Thank you. You too. Thank you very much, and I look forward to talking to you again in the future.