EWB 12.28 V1 Nick: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to Eyewitness Beauty, the podcast where we talk about the biggest stories in the beauty industry each week. I am Nick Axelrod, welk. And I am joined by Diamond Kriegbaum, aka Annie Kreigbaum, aka Annie Kriegbaum, depending on which part of Germany you're from. Mm hmm. And not only is Annie a friend, not only was she a colleague, not only is she my podcast. yoU know, cohost in arms. She was also my dog sitter. Yes. It's true. While we were out of town for Christmas, Annie decamped from New York to the sunny hills of Los [00:01:00] Angeles to take care of Jean, the 50 pound, very severely attached standard poodle that. Annie: Yeah, I'm not her doctor, but I am her house sitter, and She does have severe, um, attachment Nick: issues. She headbutts you if you try to stop petting her. Annie: She doesn't headbutt, she punches me in the stomach. Like, she is very, that's a strong, strong dog. She's a standard poodle. Nick: She's Punch is a, punch, number one, I just wanted to make sure you want to use the word punch because now we're talking about I Annie: think she, she goes shark eyes and she, when she wants something and you're not giving it to her, mainly being Your hand, like petting her food. She's okay with food. She just gets barky about food. She loves taking up the whole [00:02:00] bed. Yes. Didn't go into her crate ones. I don't even know why you guys Nick: have that. Here's what, can I say, can I just say one thing about beds? Evie. Has been free range for the last few months because she's now in a big girl bed and last night she came into our bed. At some point, I was asleep and at 1 a. m. I woke up and Jean had taken up like the lower full lower third of the bed. Evie had been sleeping horizontally, you know, on the upper third. Casey was sort of like, we were like, head to toe. Like, he was like, it was, I was like, what is my life at this point? I don't even get to sleep in my own bed. Annie: Is the idea that Evie will eventually stop coming upstairs into bed with you? Or how does that work? Nick: I mean, the only, uh, did I, I don't know if I talked about it on this podcast, but there's this like, I guess a parenting theory with sleep training at this point, which is called like the night of a thousand [00:03:00] steps. And it's when you like keep on just walking silently, walking them back down to their bedroom or back to their bed. And they can keep on coming to you, but then you keep on taking them back to their bed. We tried that a few times, but it's so torturous because it's not like you're in a great place when you're doing this at like 1am and all you want to do is go back to bed. Like you've been woken up out of slumber by like the Piercing cry of a two year old. Annie: So what happens if she continues to sleep in your bed with you? I Nick: mean, I, you know what, you know what my Roman empire is? My Roman empire is that Coco Austin breastfed her daughter Chanel until she was five years old. Coco Annie: Austin, um, one of the premier parenting influencers. Nick: Yes. She breastfed their daughter. Who is a spitting image of her father[00:04:00] until she was five years old. Annie: that's very, like, crunchy of her. Nick: Yeah. Like, shocking. Well, she's, yeah, she's kind of an almond mom, that Coco. That's not almond mom behavior. Annie: Almond mom behavior is Yolanda Hadid. Nick: When you, like, will your children to have, Is Annie: she not the original almond mom? That's like where I don't. Is that where it came from? Yeah. I think I think it originated from the episode of Beverly Hills when Gigi was like, mom, I just got home from volleyball practice. I'm so hungry and there's nothing in this clear refrigerator. And then Yolanda was like, no, Gigi, you have a party later. Just have an almond and chew it for one minute before swallowing. Yeah. Nick: Oh, maybe that is where that came from. Yeah. yeah, I really want to interview Coco Austin. I've wanted to for years. I used to try to email her publicist when I had a talk show [00:05:00] on Yahoo style. And I would email the publicist who did not seem like a real publicist, probably the same publicist who represents like James Kennedy. Like it was like that kind of publicist, you know what I mean? It was like. It was like, they had a gmail. com email, no, it was just like, it was like D money at publicity worldwide. net or something. You know what I mean? Like that kind of a thing. they never wrote back. And I was like, is, is Cocoa Austin getting that many press requests that she like, is not going to write back to mine. And also, speaking of You have to remember, Annie: Neg, that you're a nobody in their world. Nick: I know. But here's another thing. Talk about nobody. Speaking of Negs that I've gotten as an interviewer, guess who else passed on the opportunity? I can only imagine. Miss Piggy. Bitch. I know. Politely passed. Annie: Miss Piggy [00:06:00] what, what are her redeeming qualities? Just being like, glam, and without, with no apology? Nick: Yeah, yeah. She's sort of like, you know that TikToker? She was physically abusive to Kermit. Yeah. Was she not? Do you know that TikToker HRH collection? No, you know I don't. Who's just like, this sort of like, insufferable character that this girl plays where she's just. blonde and wants to be thin. She's like, if you're fat, just like, shut up. Just like, shut up. Like you've never seen her? No, no. Oh, anyway, I feel like she's kind of like Miss Piggy vibes. Oh. Miss Piggy vibes. Another slur. That sounds like another slur. Annie: Miss Piggy. Miss Piggy loves If I, if, Nick: if, okay. But if you. Recalled someone who gave off Miss Piggy vibes. Would you think that was a compliment? No, there was like, you know Annie that like Miss Piggy esque Annie: No, there [00:07:00] was a I there was a sixth grade teacher who she had trotters. Let's just say she had Her feet were so fucked and she was so, she was, I feel like this should be behind a paywall. She was, she was pig slur. She was Miss Piggy Vibes 1000. But, I, I mean, it's been so long since I've. enTered the Muppetverse and I, I, I have to assume that they're, that we like Miss Piggy for a lot of, I can only recall her being a nuisance and being like a narcissist right now, Nick: but speaking of which, do you know who, Oh, right. Her whole thing is like moi, you know, who is a genius who does not get nearly as much respect as they should and who Walter Isaacson should 100 percent write his next. biography about? Jim Henson. Oh, Annie: yeah. Nick: Jim Henson came up [00:08:00] with The Muppets, Fraggle Rock, Sesame Street, and probably something else. I feel like he did. Annie: The Muppets and Sesame Street are related? Yes. Oh, I thought it was like Marvel, DC. Like they were like, Nuh uh, Nick: sweetie. He did The Muppets and then he did, Can I just say as a filmmaker, there's nothing I love more than practical effects Yeah, he did The Muppets. He did the movie Labyrinth. Labyrinth, yeah. He, I told you he did Fraggle and then, uh, Annie: Have you tried doing Muppet Pill Evie yet? Cause like, I can't stand that weird Disney show that she watches where it's like Mickey and Minnie but they're in 3D. It's like not, it's not canon. Let's try getting her on some Sesame Street. I mean, I don't want to tell you how to parent, but Nick: Hold on. What [00:09:00] happened? I'm reading about, like Did you know that Jim Henson What, Annie: is there a lot Nick: of tragedy? He just, he died from pneumonia. Oh, a lot of people Annie: die from pneumonia. My mom's always like, you're gonna get pneumonia and die. He, Nick: oh, he also did Muppet Babies. Annie: Oh. I mean, that is a 2D show that makes, makes you wonder why they ever went in three dimensions. Nick: I mean, when you can do all of that just with your hands. That's genius. Yeah. here's something for you. Guess where the Muppets first debuted? Dallas? No, SNL. Annie: Why'd you say it was for me? Nick: Because I just thought that was interesting. Yeah. [00:10:00] SNL Annie: is having an interesting era right now. Nick: Yeah, I agree. They're not Annie: killing it on all fronts, but then they have Bo and Yang. And I do think that Chae and Colin are good. We can update hosts. You know what? I did take your advice and I listened to the podcast, babe? Question mark. Yeah. And because I'm a Lars Marie show shown all, yeah, I think so. Major, major fan. And I know she has a deep, deep library to explore of content. Like I didn't even know she would, she had like YouTube, viral YouTubes. She had, I knew she had a podcast before. Um, SAP, Nick: sexy, unique Annie: podcast, sexy, unique podcast. But I didn't know that it was called babe and. I listened to a few episodes and it is, it's a knee [00:11:00] slapper. Nick: It's hysterical, right? It's so it's Lara Marie Shane halls, who is the co host of sexy, unique podcast now, but before that she had a podcast originally with Ryan O'Connell, the writer, performer who. Created that Netflix show special about, it's like semi autobiographical, uh, TV show about him, about a young writer with cerebral palsy. Okay. Anyway, it's fucking hysterical. Annie: It's really, really good. It's really good. So that's, that's our, one of our products that we'll recommend this week. Um, what else? Oh, I did go to, I did go to ContraPosto. Nick: He, Annie came to ContraPosto, Casey's new practice. And what was your, if you had to sum it up in three words, what would you say? Annie: I'm going to give my live Google review. Um. Also, [00:12:00] I think it's important to note that I went to fresh from the plane. I was like, do not pass, go, do not collect a hundred dollars, go straight to get your face fixed. Yep. And so I went, well, and I discovered that the placeholder website has placeholder copy for the address. So that, that caused a little bit of a delay. I did end up getting to the location. Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous. I'd been before it was built out, but now there's furniture. There's art, there's stainless, there's a toilet with corners, which I love, I think Nick: that's very chic. Yep, it's like a square toilet, kind of. Square toilet. That sounds bad, but it's good. Annie: It's good. And then there's like a, there's a running pond with, is that bamboo that's coming out of the pond? Nick: Papyrus, very close. Papyrus, papyrus, interesting. It can grow underwater, which is a crazy thing. It's Annie: breathtaking upon Nick: [00:13:00] first glance. And, but more importantly, how is the, how is the service, how are the services? So one Annie: thing that you need to know about Casey Axelrod Welk. Or do you, does he go by Welk Axelrod? Yep, Nick: no. Axelrod Welk is it. Annie: Okay so, is Bedside Manor, I'm gonna have to give an 11 out of 10. What? He did some very commendable volunteer work back in the day, which I think suits, it makes him, his presence, his the way he talks to patients, clients, his everything just so kind and like just makes you feel safe. And I think that's so important when you're about to get your face like pumped up with And it hurts. all sorts of toxins. And it hurts so bad, and I'm so scared of needles. [00:14:00] I did take a Klonopin, I forgot that I increased my dose of Klonopin by double, so I get there. I didn't pass out this time. From the Botox, the needles, I did, he did my forehead. I cannot move it right now, but he said he was happy with that, so we love. It didn't drop Nick: my eye. But you can move it, that's the thing. Yeah, like that's the movement he wants. Annie: But he told me not to do Nick: that. Yeah, don't do that, but just know that Annie: you can. I basically, if my, if I had a six pack on my body, it would be my forehead. I have very strong eyebrows, not only in volume, but in the muscle. I have a caveman Cro Magnon forehead. That is very hard to freeze. So I can still move it, but it's very smooth. Then I got cat eye Botox, which lifts the outer corners of your eyes and makes you look more awake. Love it. Had it before, but him always doing cat eye Botox.[00:15:00] Then he did Botox on the sides. underneath like where the hollows of your cheeks would be called talk and it's called talks tight and it makes your face just like like snatch like you know like you know the girls like me with wider bottom halves of their face no you kind of want to like Not suck it in, but you all face you kind of like pinch the sides of your mouth between your body between your teeth Like, you know when you want to look a little like like, you know Yep, a little like and this makes you feel like that 24 7 and then I have a very expressive neck So he paralyzed my neck muscles and now I just feel serene gorgeous Oh his assistant love her Nick: Oh my god, she's the chicest, coolest person alive, Jenny. Yeah, like, Annie: I'm like what else do we love about Contrapposto? The cha even the chair was really nice, like it was Yeah, Nick: every thought, [00:16:00] you know, we thought it we, we, well, I, I It's either your taste or it's not, but I will say that having worked On every single aspect of it, like in terms of the physical space, with Courtney Applebaum, like we've like every single thing, every like napkin, tissue, like tray, like light switch. Like I wanted like every single, I wanted it to be the kind of place, and this is not everything I've ever done is like this, but like for this. I thought it just needed to be the kind of brand and like vibe that every single thing was like heavy and expensive feeling and like made you feel I loved the light switches. Yeah, those are amazing. They're, they are from this place called Forbes and Lomax, which is I guess a British, like, all they do is make like light switches. In the UK, and there's like a long lead [00:17:00] time. I love a specialist. Um, but they're like incredible. They're like old fat, old timey button, yeah, light switches. And like, like Annie: toggles. Even the little handheld mirror he gave to Thank you. Yep. It's vintage. Where did you get it? First is? Sweden, Nick: yeah. Annie: Sweden and the other thing I love about AP is so he takes these like photos of your face beforehand and then he takes out his like protractor and he does like the plastic surgeon math and like then he'll come over and he'll like, you know, put his hand like And uh, he just touches on it nicely on how like your hand in your and his and he'll say, Annie, I mean, I, I did the math and I crunched the numbers and mathematically speaking, you are perfect. So there's really not much to do. And so I like that he approaches it from a scientific standpoint. Is like you literally have like they've done studies like when and with like the Mona Lisa like the [00:18:00] David like all the perfect like examples of beauty in the world like have these same ratios and like you are basically that and so Nick: it's it's funny too because like when he told me about it he was like I'm going to take her down to the studs. And we're just gonna start fresh. It's gonna be like, he called it like a gut renovation. That's what he said. Annie: He did take out some of my guts. He was like, this is way better. He's like, this is the next Olympic. They're not even really talking about this yet. And he was like, there's no, I was like, is there gonna be any downtime? And he was like, babe, like, what are you doing? You're alone on Christmas. Nick: Like, literally, you got, sweetie, you have the time. Okay, I have a question. Speaking of which, how was being, some people would find it depressing to be alone on Christmas. I've spent holidays alone, including Christmas, because I'm Jewish. but how did you find solitude on Christmas Day? Annie: I found it well at the risk of upsetting my [00:19:00] mom, because it's not about not wanting to be with my mom, of course, I would be with her right now if I could, but I love being alone. I love being alone. I love just, especially at a time of year where it feels like everybody else is occupied, which is I think why some people thrive during COVID. And, you know, like, I think it's It's a weird feeling, but it's, if you can get yourself in that head space where you're alone and you just have, I mean, that's why I did it. I went Nick and Casey were out of town. I was able to have like this really amazing house with like a gorgeous, gorgeous doggy by myself. And I, and I had to get some work done. I had to get some like heads down work done. And that's what I did. And it was like, I couldn't have, I, honestly, it was like the best Christmas present I could have, like, given Nick: myself. Um, that's beautiful. Can we do a, a little celeb segment? Stars? They're just, they're kind of like us.[00:20:00] Yeah, okay. Welcome happy release from jail to one Gypsy Rose Blanchard if you She is I mean, she's a celeb to me, if you don't know who Gypsy Rose Blanchard is by name, you'll know her by Story, which is she was the daughter of this woman who had Munchausen syndrome by proxy, which is when you essentially like forced All of these tests and, uh, diagnosed. Yeah. Well, actually, I mean, what's funny is that speaking of Yolanda Hadid, Lisa Rinna famously accused Yolanda Hadid of having this which is when you basically like think and then project. All of these illnesses and symptoms, onto someone. Oh, by proxy is someone else. But Munchausen syndrome by itself is on yourself, but you like, submit to all of these tests. You sometimes even take, [00:21:00] you know. Take medicines or something to like cause symptoms so that you're validated in the belief that you have this thing. But Gypsy Rose's mom was essentially like drugging her to seem disabled and they like got to make a wish house and reaping the benefits like they got a brand new house and they got on all these TV shows. Long story short, Gypsy Rose is like, yeah, like make it like Leah all that stuff. Long story short, Gypsy Rose gets a boyfriend on the internet at like age, I don't want to say, like, 17? They plot a Annie: murder an adult, but also, I guess the other thing is, stay quiet about her age. She was, she was, her mom always seen like younger than she Nick: was and kept her in a wheelchair and like kept her on weird medications, like for like, yeah. Like on these like crazy glasses saying she couldn't see, but like she could anyway, but, but this [00:22:00] poor, this poor kid didn't know that she could. Annie: But you know what? A Munchausen mom can't stop a horny teenager. That's exactly Nick: what she thought. So, Gypsy Rose finds a boyfriend on the internet. Uh, she And the boyfriend named Nicholas Gojan plot the murder of the mother, they killed, they, they stabbed the mother to death and try to flee, and they don't last very long, and they get arrested in 2016. She pleads. I think pleads guilty to second degree murder and was sentenced to 10 years in prison, which I think was insane, considering that she was the victim in a lot of ways, but I guess you have to give her some Time behind bars for killing someone? Well, it's such a Annie: shame that there's not a different place they could have sent her, you know, for like real rehab. It's like that other girl that like killed her, which I don't [00:23:00] think she should have been sent away at all, but it's like that other girl that killed her, like, capped her, and like her pimp, Nick: and then sent her to prison. I mean, it's so horrible. Herb, this is a New York Times article that came out, You know, that was refreshed, I think, given the fact that she's just been released from prison after, I think, eight of the ten years, seven of the ten years that she's, served was that her mom was abusing her physically, mentally, giving her medication, having her go through procedures she didn't need, to the point where most of Gypsy's teeth are not even hers because of the medication that her mom gave her was giving her, uh, the things that made her teeth fall out. But all of this said, you'd think that she would still be I don't know, angry, you know, what twisted, whatever, but, Gypsy Rose gave an interview to People Magazine saying that she like her mother was a sick woman and she was, and unfortunately she wasn't educated enough to see that, but you know, she didn't deserve to die and she deserved to be [00:24:00] in jail and, you know, she takes responsible responsibility for what she did, but she is kind of become a little bit of like a cult icon. Yeah, because. You kind of can't blame her for, she was, she was essentially like a prisoner of her mom, uh, and she had, she did what she had to do with her boyfriend and now she's going to be walking among us, she's getting out. Annie: And we're excited to announce Nick: she's just been signed by IMG. Annie: She's just been signed by Angie and she, yeah, she's the new face of Dior Sauvage. Nick: Oh, I mean, someone is, you know, who's like, who, Demna, Demna would do it. Have Gypsy Rose. Yeah, like, walk Balenciaga. Don't you think? Annie: I think we should just leave her alone and let her Like, we, we can't now start a different trauma with her. Like, we cannot, we [00:25:00] can't use Gypsy Rose for our sick fantasies like, like her mother did. Like, we need to. Nick: If you want, and if you want to learn more about her, by the way, watch the HBO documentary, Mommy Dead and Dearest. But leave her alone. It's twist, yeah, leave her alone. Hopefully she joins Instagram so at least we can sort of like, passively keep up with her. buT I love her. So that was their celebrity news. That was my celebrity news. I feel like I had one other celebrity piece of news, but I Annie: forget. I know we have some fashion that we want to cover. We have Yes. Nick: Phoebe Philo is a flop. With a pH with a pH. And here's what I mean by that. Phoebe Philo for anyone who's not familiar was, is, fashion designer, very celebrated sort of cult fashion designer, mostly from her time at Celine. She was sort of like the, the [00:26:00] foremost, the foremost sort of like feminist high designer. Of a certain point in which, by which I mean, she was sort of creating these clothes that women love to wear that maybe men quote unquote didn't understand. It was about the female gays, not the male gays. Literally one of the only women had design, yeah, designing a, a, a, you know. Paris collection. But anyway, she designed Celine for a long time, like the trapeze bags, like created all these iconic bags, reinvented, uh, reinvigorated the Celine, the house of Celine and then left the fashion industry for, I want to say like 10 years and had, there had been mumbles and you know, she's the one who put Joan Didion in sunglasses for an ad. Like she was that, like, just like, Thinking outside the box, but also like kind of, uh, creating and defining what was in fashion in a lot of ways. Anyway, she spent 10 [00:27:00] years, out of the spotlight rumor had it. She was starting her own thing, or she was maybe going to Chanel or to there or to that. Anyway, she launches her own brand. But then it's like, is she going to launch it with a show at fashion week? Is she going to, and how is she going to do it? She ends up launching it sort of like not with no regard to the fashion calendar, which is cool. She launches with all of these, you know, pictures of Daria. We're Bowie, who was like her, you know, favorite model at the time. Uh, the model that sort of, she made all of her ads with anyway, she launches Phoebe philo. com the first collection, I guess, maybe sells out. The second collection dropped a few weeks ago. And a lot of it's like still available. I know a lot of people were trying to return it because it was running big and it has a very specific fit that like, didn't make sense, but like, [00:28:00] you can still buy a pair of trousers for 2, 200, a jacket for 3, 900, a bag for 5, 800, like a, and, and it's all fine, but like, I was thinking about it and like, she was the. Fashion designer, like she was the person that like everyone, you know, who cared about runway and wearing cutting edge fashion was wearing. And I just feel like no one is talking or wearing, like she tried to do this. She thought she was so big that she didn't have to like do press and, you know, do so like, does like it kind of very sort of massively Annie: influencers and celebs. Nick: And not really. I mean, she's doing a little bit of social media, but not really. And I think this is kind of what Annie: you get. Is she French or is she British or is she a mix? I think she's [00:29:00] British. No, no, no, not Phoebe. Camille Charch charchery? You know who I'm talking about? She's an influ She's a blonde influencer. She has a ton of followers. Like, she's a blonde fashion influencer. She's like, 11 feet tall and like, like a string bean. She looks good in everything. She Phoebe needs to like, send her the whole collection and like, have her take some pics and then it'll sell. Because, like, she's not doing anything. Nick: No, and I just think that it's sort of just given how like wildly successful her last thing was Like I just think this whole it's it it feels it doesn't feel like she's creating Trends it feels like kind of a rehash of what she's already done. No, I don't really see anyone wearing it I don't see it sort of like resetting Conversations like she would like she would create like her first her first Like her, her Celine collections would [00:30:00] like create an entire, like, idea about jewelry, those like, kind of like abstract amorphous silver bangles that everyone was wearing were like, you know, her, her idea, the like hairy square toed shoes, you know, it was, it was very man repeller. Um. In a way, and I just feel like it's, she thought she didn't have to like play the game and that like fashion would still be the way that it was when she left and it's just, I think that was a little presumptuous. She has a pair of studded bikini bottoms in gold polyamide for 1, 200. Annie: Her, her biggest handbag, which is, it looks to be, A little bit wider, but otherwise around the same size as like the biggest YSL bag, which I believe is like 5, 000. And [00:31:00] she's selling hers for 8, 500. Nick: Yeah, it's just wild. And it just looks like no one's buying it. Annie: You can buy all this stuff at the Row, or you can, like, Google, like, 2008 YSL and get the same accessories. Nick: Yeah, so I just wanted to make that statement, that I was, I just don't, I think that fashion has moved on. Annie: It sounds like you're actually not supporting all women right Nick: now. No, I do support all women, and I support her, I just think that there was maybe some hubris in launching this way, and she In order for this to work, she's gonna have to, like, get with the program. Like, I want to see her doing the savage dance on TikTok. No, we Annie: don't. But these handbags are just outrageously priced. I mean, everything is in the collection, which is why, like, the only thing that sold were her, like, cheapy, like, metal necklaces. Yeah. I [00:32:00] think they were, like, 500 or Nick: something. A chain necklace with a glass pendant? Nothing fine, nothing precious about it, in terms of metals or jewels 1400. It's a lanyard. It's like, you could get it at H& M. Oy. It's gold plated sterling silver. Annie: If I wanted, like, an oversized trench, I would go to the Row. Nick: Yeah, and you would get, like, the most exquisite version of the thing. And go home Annie: and I'll be like, oh, I'm gonna think about it and come back, and then never come back because I can't afford it. Nick: Anyway, that was my Phoebe Philo hot take. Annie: That was crazy, just to hear you be so negative. Nick: Oh, here's the other thing I have to say. Which is there were two acquisitions over the last few days in terms in the beauty space that we should just mention. We don't, I [00:33:00] don't know if there's much to say. Unilever acquired K18, the hair brand. Do you, have you ever tried those products? Annie: No, I've not been. Super experimental with my hair journey lately, but go ahead. Nick: It's a brand that was all it was it was a hair technology It was you know, kind of like Olaplex was the vibe Annie: Yeah, it was like Nick: Right. I think they have done really well. I've never tried it. I don't know anyone who uses it, but apparently people do. Because Unilever just acquired K18. And then the other one that was just acquired, Dr. Dennis Gross was acquired by Shiseido. Annie: Oh, wow. Was that on the chopping block, too, from the Nick: No, no, no. Dr. Dennis Gross has, I guess, had been run privately, uh, Annie: for years. Oh, I thought all of these were the follow up to the Biosance story. No, no. Nick: Oh, to [00:34:00] the Amarys fire sale? No, no. These are just two acquisitions that are unrelated. Got it. Okay. But, uh, Shiseido bought Dr. Dennis Gross. Unilever bought K 18. Dr. Dennis Gross, I guess Apparently was selling 300 million dollars in retail sales per year at this point, which is insane, one of the highest, you know, biggest brands in Sephora. They're everywhere. I believe they're also in, you know, all the Blue Mercury. They're every Dr. Dennis Gross is everywhere. I think it was sort of, uh, they were one of the brands that chose ubiquity rather than like one selling. Lane. Mm hmm. The Alpha Beta peel you might have tried or the red light masks. Annie: I use their peels all the time. Nick: Anyway, those are two acquisitions. But back to the Amaris fire sale, Amaris, the biotech company that tried to branch out into celebrity brands, but then went bankrupt and had to sell [00:35:00] off all of its assets. I had an update, which was that Naomi Watts bought back her brand Stripes, which was a Metapause, uh, hair brand for half a million dollars. And, Rosie Huntington Whiteley bought back Rose Inc. for 2. 5 million dollars. Jonathan Van Ness brand, JVN Hair, which I had heard was doing really well in Sephora, was bought. To, uh, was bought by an investment firm called Winsong Global for 1. 2 million dollars. Um, these numbers are just really depressing and low. I Annie: mean, it's good for Rosie that she, like, could buy her own brand back for basically pennies on the Nick: dollar. Yeah, I mean, I guess now she has to find someone, you know, she has to To run it. Yeah, exactly. Annie: But the thing is, it's like, they're still on, they still have, like, good retail placement at Sephora. Like, I went to the Sephora in, um, in Dallas before I came to [00:36:00] LA, so, quite recently. And they were both, like, in the front of the store. The Sephora, by the way, the best Sephora in Dallas is the one in Uptown. Which one? Don't bother with the other ones. You wouldn't know it, Nick. Oh. I don't think you know Dallas that well, do you? No. It's just really clean. It's very organized. They, it's huge. They have everything. It's just like, just go to that one. Don't go to the mall. Nick: That's all I've seen. Man, oh Annie: man. Um, good for Rosie. I was kind of surprised that she hadn't already, you know. Nick: Well, I think people were, I think people were surprised that the brand sold for like that one of all the brands. I think JVN and Rose Inc. were the ones that were the most surprising that they didn't find buyers that, you know, I, it goes to show that I think the way that Amaris had probably structured things was like the profits from some of the brands were going to like pay for the marketing of other brands, you know, like, so I bet the financials must've been a mess and. Yeah. Yeah. There wouldn't have been a ton of revenue for each brand or else they [00:37:00] would have been sold as a multiple, you know, on a multiple of the revenue that they were making for you if Annie: you had a brand that was doing well. And it was like, well, that's Nick: what, that's why Kristen S sued Mesa group. Kristen asked the celebrity hair colorist started her Hair brand that's in Target with Mesa Group a incubator Annie: Pretty pastel like monochromatic packaging. Nick: Yes And then it was a it went gangbusters super successful that she ended up suing Mesa Group and now she's no longer affiliated with the brand and Among the things she was alleging were that they were using the profits from her Brand to fund the other things in their portfolio that she didn't have an interest in at the, to the detriment of her brand. So, yeah, I mean, I think this is also a little bit of a wake up call to all of these, incubators where they, people think that you can just launch a bunch of different [00:38:00] brands and have like one back of house. You know, one, and I just, you know, clearly it's not as simple as that. Annie: it's going to, we're going to do like a, not all people kind of thing, not all investors, but I will say most investors are crooks and morons, so. No, truthfully, Nick: what I'll say is, I wouldn't, I don't know if I'd say crooks and morons, but I would say that most there's a lot of investors out Annie: there, but I would say Nick: I would say that most investors have never operated a business. They are professional invest, they're professional investors, and it is always hard to. Take direction and or advice and or suggestions from people who've never actually been in the position that you're in as a brand founder. [00:39:00] That said, I do know some like wonderful investors who have not operated. Brands themselves, but no, when to hold them, no one to show them, yeah. No one to fold them. No one to give advice and are incredibly helpful. Like Nick Brown at imaginary ventures is Annie: like the premier. Like he's the guy like you're going to say, who's a great investor. You would say Nick Nick: Brown, but he's, but he, to me, like, and I'm also disclaimer, he invested in a few of the companies that I've. Worked on, um, and he's a friend of mine, but he is so he's helpful. He gives constructive feedback and criticism and will help with anything that he can but real sort of meaningful help. And whether it's like sourcing candidates for open positions or even just giving advice or insight. into a different category. Like he's just one of those people that is incredibly helpful. So, and he's him [00:40:00] being one of maybe 10 investors I've ever had in the businesses that I've started, uh, has given me an impression, perhaps a completely false impression that like, there are investors who can have come from non operational backgrounds, but just be incredibly helpful. I call it like smart money. There's like dumb money and then there's smart money. Annie: There's also a ton of angels, like who is just like an individual that wants to like put in money who are like, they call them angels because they're great. They're angels. Nick: They give you money. Yeah. And they don't usually, yeah, usually angel investors or friends and family rounds don't have the types of like control that an institutional investor, like a venture capital firm would have. Annie: And you know what it is? It's the golden age of private credit. So Nick: you heard this, and what does that mean? Annie: It means that private credit firms, if my memory Nick: is not, you [00:41:00] can't use the term to define the term. Annie: I was about to say They are. Okay. I'm just speaking in a complete sentence. Do you mind? This is a podcast. No, go . Private credit firms are like. Taking a loan from a bank, they don't take a, any ownership percentage of your company, but they do charge interest on the loan, and it's just, you're not taking money from a, like, traditional, like, institution, like a bank, it's structured differently because It's just a loan. It's a loan. It's a loan. And it's the golden age. But you have to pitch to them just like you would to any like investment firm that does take a part of your business. But lucky you. You don't have to give anything away. You just have to agree to the terms of the loan and it is the, it's the golden age of private Nick: credit. I mean, that, I, well, I think the golden age of private credit also means that early stage financing for consumer products, [00:42:00] companies is really having a bad moment. Yeah, there used to be, there used to be so much money that, like, there used to be entire VC firms dedicated to giving money to pre launch, you know, consumer brands. It Annie: was because you could buy your customers on Facebook for pennies. Right, and so you could Nick: just create a math equation. Annie: I mean, not to say that we did other brilliant things to grow Glossier, but like, that was definitely one of the main reasons that Glossier, and a lot of brands back then, like Warby, who else was like a major, um, what was the mattress brand? Oh, Casper. You could, you could just buy, buy customers. Like you knew everything was so predictable and cheap. You could like put a, make a model of your business and be like, okay, we're going to acquire, you know, 20, 000 customers this month and we're going to spend this much money and it was like, yeah, you could predict that. And you can control that. But now, because basically. [00:43:00] Three summers ago now, I think Google and Facebook stopped sharing analytics and it made buying customers in that way and serving ads to customers extremely difficult to like target the right people that would buy your product because the data wasn't being shared. And like, you couldn't be as sophisticated as you once were with targeting people with your ads and it was, and it became really, really, really expensive. To buy customers. And so that's why influencer marketing is like so crucial now. Which is crazy. You would think like the golden age of influencing would be done, but Nick: it's not. Annie: It's just, you have to get creative with how you market your products. Or like my whole thing is like, you just have to make really good products. Like I'm sick of people just thinking we talked about this before. Nick: Yeah. Oh, but hold on. Can I just say one thing just back to the golden age of private, private credit. Okay. Okay. You can just very quickly, which is that we, Casey and I tried [00:44:00] to get a loan for Contrato and I've started to success three. I've been a co-founder of three successful businesses, like, right. Uh, yeah. And we couldn't get a loan. I mean, this was after the interest rates all, where did it go? To the bank. We went to the bank, but I think. What is it? What the, the reason why is because, and this is like the catch 22, I think it's a catch 22 of like startups is that they're like, well, you don't have, like, what are your sales? You're like zero. Annie: Also, like, what are you investing the money? And you're not investing into anything that like inventory where you could sell it and make money off of it and liquidate it in the end. Nick: Right? Annie: Like, if you're taking out a loan, it should be to fund like an inventory purchase. And like, you don't have. Inventory to purchase for ContraPosto, right? One day, but not now. I was told, I was told by my [00:45:00] dear homie, Matt Weiler, former head of finance at Glossier, the other day, that you do not want to fund marketing, like anything that doesn't have, like, a solid, like, if you're not buying something with the loan money, like, that's not how you should finance it. Really? I mean, that's what he was like, yeah. Nick: And so anything you can't sell off in worst case scenario. Annie: Right. Right. Right. Cause he was like, what do you need this money for? And I was like, well, I'm going to spend X amount on marketing, but like, you know, I'm not buying a ton of inventory. And he was like, yeah, no, don't take out a loan. Don't take out a loan for marketing. aNd explained it in that way. So anyway, let's just say, thank God I have rich parents. Bye. Bye. Bye. Right? That was a joke. That was a joke. Nick: But much like in fashion, that is probably why a lot of startup founders do come, maybe not from like, incredibly well, incredible wealth, but certainly come [00:46:00] from probably pretty Comfortable backgrounds because the economics of starting a company and making friends and family around has Annie: become so important. Nick: Yeah, it's right. Well, that's a great point too. So you have to number one, have friends and family, have people in your network that have friends, tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of disposal income that they're not that concerned about, you know, giving to a very risky investment. And number two, you out of that salary, out of that fund amount that you've raised, you can't really take a, a, a market rate salary as a founder. You have to take a really either nothing like zero salary as the founder, because you want to put it all into hiring other people and whatever, or you have to take the bare minimum that you can live off of which in a city like New York or LA or San Francisco is still, you know, high, but. You know, if you're talking bare minimum, you're [00:47:00] not living, you're not living, you're not flying high. So all of which is to say, like, you have to have a cushion or you probably, most people, you know, who are making that work for multiple years, like have some sort of a cushion because, Annie: you know. Yeah. Even if you have a founder that's like, what are you talking about? My daddy didn't, is not funding my business. Like daddy or mummy might be funding every other aspect of their life, which is essentially funding their business. Which is fine. I mean, Nick: I mean, this is what I, I mean, it's in fucking the glossy Marissa Meltzer book that my, I worked for 0 for two years. With Emily. You Annie: did? Yeah. Wait, it was in the book or it wasn't in the book? It was in the book. I wor oh. We're so silly in that way, Nick. But you did it knowingly. I did it not I mean, Nick: I did I did it knowingly, but, like, [00:48:00] yeah. No, I did it knowingly, but that I wouldn't it you know, I made a compelling argument to my parents that, like, this was a worthy Investment essentially, um, still wait, still waiting on, still waiting on your Annie: parents are helping you out. Nick: Correct? Because for two years I didn't take any, I didn't have a cell. I literally was like, I'll come to your apartment. I don't have, there's no money. I don't, I'm not, I won't take any money, but we'll just like build this into a big thing. That was, you sacrificed it all. I sacrificed. I listen, I put my, I put it all on the line. You did. And now Mm-Hmm. not to be condensed into an inaccurate fucking stereotype and a dumbass, salacious piece of fan fiction. It's not Annie: even, I think calling it Nick: salacious is giving it too much . No. Yeah. It's not even a boring piece of fan fiction, um, that I still can get riled up about, but I don't really worry about. Annie: I just, I, I just get riled up about, like, how can you be so wrong? Like, how can you [00:49:00] do zero research? Nick: I just think that, like, here's the, here's what, if people have one takeaway from that whole situation, it's that books are not fact checked, but magazines and newspapers generally are. There are no fact checkers for books, even though Marissa Meltzer thanks her quote unquote fact checkers. There were none because she Annie: literally didn't read. She didn't even read like my LinkedIn profile. Yeah, there was no. Yeah, she probably think that's Nick: actually true. Like, if she looked at LinkedIn of the people that she was talking about, she wouldn't have gotten a lot of the timeline and chronology stuff wrong. So you're right about that, but there's just like books. But what's crazy is because a book seems much more permanent than a magazine or newspaper. sort of makes you feel like it's more true than something you read, like on the internet and, you know, on newyorktimes. com or something, but it's actually so much less, like, there's no accountability. Do, should we do products of the week? [00:50:00] Yeah, let's do it. My product of the week, and I know that podcasting is not a visual medium, but I want to give a shout out. And this is kind of circling back to one of your products of the week a long time ago, which was Jacques Marie Mage, the sunglass maker that I guess kind of had a big moment thanks to Succession. Like one of the characters wears a pair of these sunglasses, they're eyeglasses and sunglasses that are prohibitively expensive like upwards of 800 for a pair of fucking sunglasses. However, there is one style that I literally asked like three people in my life. What sunglasses they're wearing because they're just the perfect sort of classic yet a little retro, but like flattering black kind of chunky acetate frame and they've all been wearing the same sunglass.[00:51:00] And so now I'm convinced it's the Zephyrin, Annie: but like, what Nick: is it a square, it's kind of, it's like a, like a newspaper reporter kind of shape, like a old timey news, you know, like that sort of like. Classic, thick rimmed kind of thing, called the Zephyrin. Z E P H E R I N. And I'm now convinced that it is the best sunglass frame for Jews. If you have a Jewish face, The Zephyrin by Jacques Marie Mage is a slam dunk home run. It's just, that's all I'll say. I'll leave it there. Okay. Annie: I don't know what you're talking about in terms of a Jewish face. I feel like Nick: It's very kind of you. Annie: But I'm smiling and nodding because I support you and I, and [00:52:00] I trust your taste. Nick: what's your product of the week? Annie: My product of the week is So I had like kind of a crazy day this past week. I drove Casey's car to Beverly Hills Sachs, did a little shopping, I thought I was going to a party, ended up having a very stressful time that evening, and decided just to stay home. But I did get my nails done, and the color is OPI Big Apple Red, and it's the most boring choice that you could make at first blush, but you wear it for the day and the color kind of cures, and it is like the perfect red. I just love catching myself in the mirror with this like, Coca Cola red nail. It just looks so good. So that is my product of the week. Sorry. It's a boring. Sorry. It's a classic. What Nick: it's it's Coca Cola red is the idea. Annie: No, it's called, well, the name of the color is called. No, Nick: no, right. But like describing the red, [00:53:00] it's like that it's a Annie: very, it's just the perfect like bluey, not too orange, red. And like I said, it looks better the second day, like after it's cured for a day, like the color gets better. And then after that, so I had these wet nails and I go to get Casey's car and drive it back to your house. And I, the key wasn't working and I remembered seeing a warning driving there on the little TV inside the car that the battery was low in the key fob. And I'm thinking, okay, like I'm sure like I'll be fine putting it into the car. So I was like, great, took an Uber all the way home and I got the little manual key that's supposed to unlock this car. Take an Uber back to Saks. Cannot get into the car. Nick already knows the story because he was a crucial part of it. Nick: It's just, Andy's now texting me being like, I'm locked out, the key doesn't work, the car won't open, [00:54:00] what do I do? And I was like, I don't know. Annie: My phone is, like, on 20%. So I'm like, fuck, okay. So I look up the nearest, like, drugstore. And I'm, I'm like, I'm going to put a battery in this key. So I, I walk 10 minutes to like the Rite Aid. I am with my wet nails on like taking the state childproof packaging from this like round little battery disc. I break open the key. I put the new battery in. All right, finally I can get my night started. I walk all the way back to the car. Nothing. Doesn't work. I'm like, YouTubing like how to get into this car, dah, dah, dah, and my phone is like almost dead. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna have to deal with this tomorrow. I go up to the woman at the At Like the desk? Nick: Valet, yeah. Like the, yeah, the valet stand. Yeah, Annie: like at the gate. Like you have to drive through a gate to get out of the parking lot. And I'm like, listen, my key is dead, I cannot get into my car, I'm gonna have to deal with this in the morning. And [00:55:00] I'm like, are you gonna tow my car? No, of course we won't tow your car, it's fine. We all have to pay the overnight rate. So I go home, I'm like exhausted, I don't go out. The next morning I take an Uber back to this parking lot. The car's gone. So I call, I tell the woman, there's another woman at the gate. She's like, no, we didn't tow any cars. And I'm like, okay, well, this car is gone. Like you need to check. So now Nick: she texts me and she's like, the car, your car's not here. The car was stolen. It was stolen. And so I am in Utah with Casey's family. And I am like, okay, like I'm Googling, like how to locate. An Audi e tron and they're like, in order for us to let me too, but like they said, in order for us to like, track it, you have to give us a police report number case number. So then I'm like, okay, I called 9 1 1 and they're like 9 1 1 what's your emergency? And I'm like, okay, my, I was like my sister. left my car at a parking lot and [00:56:00] it's, we think it's been stolen. And she was like, okay, what's your location? I was like, Saks Fifth Avenue in Beverly Hills. And she was like, sir, this is the Utah, this is the Utah 911 line. I was like, okay, can you patch me? Can you connect me to LA? And she was like, she was like, I don't know what the LA police department phone number is. And I was like, neither do I, I thought it was 911. She was like, no, it's not 9 1 1. Annie: Anyway, so Nick calls the police. I'm on the phone with the head of security for Sachs I'm like, how do we get this foot? And this woman is like, what kind of car was it again? I was like, it was an Audi. And I just wanna say I was being very nice to her. I wasn't being like crazy. I was like, I'm so sorry, . Like, I feel insane right now because, and she was like, and she was like. No, I'm saying up until this point, I wasn't like, freaking out or anything. I was just like, I, this is so [00:57:00] weird. And she was like, what kind of car was it? I was an Audi. I was like, and she was like, but was it a big car? I was like, yeah, it was like a, you know, midsize SUV. And she was like, she was like, come, she was like, no, no, no. She's like, come, come walk and just make sure. And we walked by this other car and I, and the light blinked on it. Cause I guess I was like, holding the key. And I was like, but that's not, that's not the car. And she's like, that's your car. I had been trying to get into the wrong car the whole time the night before. And. Nick: Hence why the key didn't work. Most humiliating. And that the wrong car was driven by a, by its, its rightful owner off the lot. Hence why it wasn't there. Annie: I was trying to Nick: break my car. Yeah. So there's that. Annie: Um, anyway, so thank you to the Utah police. Nick: Yes. Thank you to the Utah police for, for stopping me from calling [00:58:00] 9 1 1. And, uh, the other thing, we have a bonus Annie: episode coming up. Nick: We have a bonus episode coming out for our Patreon because you thought this was raunchy and real. Do you have, you haven't heard anything. Ibanez Beauty is produced by Jonathan Kornman and edited by AJ Mosley. We. Are on Patreon at patreon.com/eyewitness Beauty. Every dollar that we get from our patrons goes into making this podcast. It is. We like to affectionately call it a vanity project. It pays our rent, it funds our, allows us to continue to do this. And for that, we are eternally grateful until next week, we'll see you soon. Bye.