Camden Bernatz (00:00:00) - Welcome to the Brands and Campaigns Podcast, the stories and people behind clever marketing moves powered by EKR. I'm your host, Camden Bernatz, a creative and brand strategist at EKR. All right so the genesis of this campaign, the whole reason we wanted to do this is people in our agency and in our network in the creative and brand and advertising industry, we often look at things at work in the world and say that looks great or maybe that looks bad depending on what it is. And we often debate the utility of a creative output of an advertisement or a brand refresh or whatever might be. But not often do we get to see behind the scenes about how it came to be kind of how the creative sausage is made, so to speak.
And so I came across the campaign that I really liked and I knew I wanted to talk to somebody who was involved. That is the, this campaign called Baseball is Something Else for Major League Baseball. Obviously being a podcast, we're not going to be able to show all the different videos on here. We encourage you to go watch the video ads. You can find them on the Wieden+Kennedy website, Adweek did an article, the MLB YouTube page. But I want to talk about it a little bit and then introduce our guest who played a pivotal role in this campaign.
So, reading from the W and K website about the, what's the word, I guess the goal or the approach in this advertisement campaign, this is what they said. Baseball has always been a storied game with deep traditions and rich history. It has endless stories, legends, quirks, and superstitions that make baseball unique. In one moment, it is comfortable and nostalgic and in the next, it can be totally unpredictable. The expected and the unexpected collide so perfectly in baseball and major league baseball tapped Widen+Kennedy to find a way to capture this unique intersection.
In order to drive growth globally and welcome new fans into the fold, we decided to reinforce the emotional bonds, fans forward with the sport, its clubs and players. The result was a new global creative brand platform. Baseball is something else which focused on highly relatable stories that highlight the players ballpark experience and history of the game. So to get more insight on how this campaign came to be as someone who actually played a pivotal role in it, we have Josh Bogdan here with us today who served as creative director over this campaign. Welcome to the show, Josh.
Josh Bogdan (00:02:28) - Hey, thank you very much. I'm happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Camden Bernatz (00:02:31) - Yeah, thank you very much for being here. We’re excited to get into this. So let me first ask you with this baseball something else campaign, where did it start? How did it land on your desk? What was the objective? Where did your involvement begin?
Josh Bogdan (00:02:44) - Sure. So it came to our office as a pitch opportunity. And that was way back in, let's see, February of 2022. January, February 2022. And we were really excited to just have the opportunity to get this account into the building. I'm a huge baseball fan. I spent a lot of time working on sports. I'm a diehard Yankee fan so this is just fun. It's always great when you get to work on a brand that you're passionate about it. It just makes even the hard parts of the process that much better.
Camden Bernatz (00:03:37) - Yeah, I can definitely see that and it's good for the client because they know they have someone passionate who's doing, who's working for them. Right? That's helpful to know.
Josh Bogdan (00:03:43) - Yeah, absolutely. And for that initial pitch, we came back to them with just one idea. We put all of our eggs in one basket. We felt so confident we were like, you know what? Let's go in bold. And we came with just one campaign platform, blew it out in many, many different ways. And the presentation, the pitch went really, really well. There is just some great conversations back and forth. But ultimately, I don't think that MLB was ready to take on a rebrand of that size at the time.
At the time, we were pitching in early winter of 2022 of opening day, 2022. I think the scope of what we presented was just a lot to take on for something that needed to be produced in such a short time span. The work that we're talking about today ultimately came out into the world opening day, so April 2023. So over a year later.
Camden Bernatz (00:05:09) - That can be, I've seen that before where you want to throw your client, plus you just get personally invested in good ideas and it's good sometimes to show them more than they can handle in the sense that they can say, okay, wow, we're definitely not going to be hurting for ideas from these guys. But then sometimes it's also hard because you'll get recognition for the work that does go out and like, yeah, but the things that you didn't see were also awesome and like, as that's kind of the creator struggle as I wanted all of the ideas to go out there and the public doesn't always see that. But interesting.
So one idea to the, to the table then was there any hesitancy internally to do that or you said you're all pretty confident about it though?
Josh Bogdan (00:05:46) - There is such unanimity around everyone being confident around this idea. Now, this idea was not baseball something else. So it is not the idea that ultimately went out into the world. It was an idea that we were really excited about. But also when you're in a pitch, you're, you're working on somewhat in a vacuum without knowing your client and their needs and their world incredibly well. I mean, you can do your research and you can go through all the pitch materials and have tissue sessions. But ultimately, the process of working together closely over months, over a year will get you to a place where you're more aligned with their needs.
Camden Bernatz (00:06:38) - Perfect.
Josh Bogdan (00:06:38) - So. Well, I do think it was a great piece of creative one that I would be proud to make. I ultimately see why that was not the piece of work that ultimately went through. I'm happy because I think what ultimately came out was even better, way better. So at the end of the pitch, they're like, we love the thinking that you brought, we're just not ready for that at the moment. Our relationship was on pause so there is a few months between the pitch and then when we started picking up work in earnest. So then in summer ‘22 we delved into a really, really deep strategic exploration. And then as you're reading that intro, you read how baseball is the world where the expected and unexpected combine and that really is the thinking that unlocked so much of what is great about baseball is something else. On one hand, it's a sport that it is part of the American fabric. It's something that even if you're not a fan, you have some awareness of it. You grew up with the films, you grew up with some parent or grandpa who just has a love for the sport.
So it's part of us, but there's also so many great idiosyncrasies of the game that make it absolutely unique. so the unexpected parts of it are what happens when you put the sport under a microscope and you get into all the little rituals, all the little nuances of the game and our ability to elevate those nuances and allow people who are not just the obsessed fan, but the casual fan or the person who knows about the game, but maybe goes once or twice a year to really enjoy those idiosyncrasies is something that the strategy helped unlock for us. It allowed us to look for those moments.
So I think the original question was like how to drop on my desk. I ultimately was leading that pitch and then when we finally came back to doing work, I was still there luckily.
Camden Bernatz (00:09:17) - Yeah. Awesome. Well, you guys did super good. Obviously, I like you mentioned before that the tradition, I mean, it's no secret and I think MLB would acknowledge this. There's been in recent years efforts, they kind of try to bring in a younger audience. Right? There was some concern that Major League Baseball while still very popular is kind of becoming more of the older demographic and the young people weren't as into it as much as some other sports. What I think this campaign did really well, it in executions that I've definitely seen come out have been a call to kind of that nostalgic tradition, the things that have been around forever, but also in a very modern spin. It didn't seem old. It wasn't one of those old grainy, old timey, baseball's been around since 19-whatever. It wasn't one of those ads. It was like, oh, there's tradition, but in new way.
Like if even just like the video that featured the hot dogs, right? The hot dog, the ballpark hot dog experience, that's been around since like the beginning for a long time but it's all these new modern kind of funky take on how different parks were giving their hot dogs out and just to have one ad focused in the hot dog experience which is not even the baseball, the sport itself, but the experience of going to the ballpark, I think that was just one of many examples where it was a nostalgic throwback but featuring something that was a tradition but in a modern fun way that definitely accomplished what you're talking about.
Josh Bogdan (00:10:37) - Well, it makes me happy to hear you say all that. That's what we were going for. I'm glad you picked up on it and that's how it was received.
Camden Bernatz (00:10:45) - Good, good. So as they decide to start working with you and you've got the ball rolling as far as actually putting this together beyond pitch and making it become execution, what did the team look like? Who did you have involved? Was it a large team? Do you have a small little task group? What did that look like?
Josh Bogdan (00:11:01) - Yeah, there's a pretty good story in here. We had a great team of creatives on this, some young creatives, some seasoned senior level creative teams on this and great strategy and brand team. I mean, everyone was working really well together. But around late summer of ‘22 something pretty unexpected and interesting happened. Do you know Jim Riswald?
Camden Bernatz (00:11:40) - I don’t.
Josh Bogdan (00:11:42) - Okay, Jim Riswald, was the first copywriter that Dan had never hired. You may have seen Spike and Mike or Bo Nose or Charles Barkley's role model. He has one of the greatest portfolios in advertising history maybe, maybe the best one.
Camden Bernatz (00:12:13) - I should not no. I'm a faker here. I didn't know his name but I definitely know those campaigns for sure.
Josh Bogdan (00:12:17) - Yeah, I mean, he wrote the ads that became the posters that hung on my wall when I was a kid. And he's just an incredible copywriter who obviously went on to have a really, really long and incredible career. There is another gentleman, named Hal Curtis, who was a longtime creative director on Nike who has an equally impressive portfolio. You might remember Y2K Jogger or Coca Cola, Thanksgiving Day Parade or, I forget the name of that ad, but the Grand Theft Auto, Coca Cola ads, I mean, just some of the greatest pieces of work that you could ever imagine.
Those guys are buddies and Jim Riswald after a long hiatus was back at the agency in kind of an advisory role I would say Hal Curtis was a long, long, long time creative director and he comes back to help out occasionally. But once we went through the long strategic process, those guys came up to me in the hall and they're like, “Hey, Josh, I heard, we heard we got MLB.” I'm like, yeah, man, it's exciting. Right? And they're like, yeah, like do you mind if we show you some ideas? I like, yeah, sure.
Camden Bernatz (00:13:55) - I say no, thanks. Walk away.
Josh Bogdan (00:13:58) - Yeah, I'll take a look at an idea. Why not. So, I went up to Jim Riswald’s office and I'm sitting in front of Hal Curtis and Jim Riswald, some of the best creatives to ever do this thing and I have to create direct and they start reading me this manifesto. I will say after about three lines and I'm like, that's it. That is it. You got it.
Camden Bernatz (00:14:42) - Wow.
Josh Bogdan (00:14:43) - The original line was not baseball is something else but the spirit of it is very, very much intact. Everything that you see its genesis was right there in that opening manifesto that they read to me. I mean, these guys, their ability to really distill a core idea just to get down to like the truth of it, I mean, provided our wider team with such a great platform to start generating ideas from. Once that was unlocked so many ideas just kept coming out. That's always the sign of a great platform. It's not the type of thing where you're just banging your head against the wall nonstop, just search and search. I mean, good work can come out that way, but it's not as easy. It's often not as fun. And it's always a good sign when the ideas are just flowing.
So Hal and Jim weren't responsible for every piece of work that you see in the campaign, but they definitely unlocked it for the rest of them. I mean, I was definitely in awe. Creative directing them was definitely a journey for me as well because at a certain point, I had to stop being in awe of my idols and actually had to do my job and creative directing, give feedback and I got better at that as time went on.
Camden Bernatz (00:16:36) - What an experience, I don't know, how am I unable to share if there's any limitations there? But can you remember at all what that manifesto like is some of that copy reflected in the ad copy or is it something that was just an internal document? I'd love to know more about what they presented that day.
Josh Bogdan (00:16:52) - You know, it was really just an incredible distillation of the spirit of baseball is something else. I think we go back to what are the idiosyncrasies, what are the nuances of the game. What are the elements of that make baseball unlike any other sport in the world? Baseball really is quirky. It really does have some esoteric rules to it. Its format is a little different. It's nine innings. It's the way we talk about it is different. The way baseball terminology has seeped into our language is really what makes it totally unique. I think I'm just hedging your question because I can't remember it offhand that.
Camden Bernatz (00:17:48) - No, it's fine. That's good. If yeah, if you had a tattoo somewhere or something, have you read it?
Josh Bogdan (00:17:55) - No.
Camden Bernatz (00:17:55) - Yeah, you're definitely right. It's an American institution. Our producer’s here, Adam was talking, we talking about this episode and quote for Moneyball, how you not be romantic about baseball.
Josh Bogdan (00:18:06) - Exactly, exactly.
Camden Bernatz (00:18:09) - Yeah. Yeah, cool. That's so critical to have that whether we call it a Manifesto or a core essence the guiding description. But like you said, if you can nail that down, the ideas that can then flow from that are evidence of the fact that it's understood. I don't know the individuals besides you who are all involved on that and each of those executions that came out, but clearly there's people at the table who did understand the culture and tradition of baseball and it shows the importance of having that when you can is crucial because you could have done some ads that were about having a good experience or the excitement of the sport. But the way it leaned into things, the way that the -- how do you even describe it? Like you said, the idiosyncrasies of the game are things that you wouldn't just, if you give it to someone who knew nothing about baseball, it could not have been produced that way.
And so another question I have for you is what kind of like research went into deciding what the executions would be? For example, I know one of the videos is Aaron Judge and his 62 home runs and that number 62 and how it led up to all these number, 61 from history and like 61 degrees at the ballpark. And I don't remember all the different stats but clearly a deep dive into baseball statistical history and the stories. Where did that come from? Was there a team that helped you with that? Did you all know that stuff internally? Can you talk about that a little bit?
Josh Bogdan (00:19:34) - Sure. First, I do want to give flowers to the team who is behind the hot dogs and the 61 spot. They are known as the Nicks. Nicks Donor and Nick Howard, they're a great senior creative team. To your point about understanding the nuances of the game, I think because baseball really does have so much insider knowledge, it does help to have people on the team who understand that. But I think it's also valuable to have people on the team without that knowledge as well because our audience isn't necessarily, or I shouldn't say isn't necessary, our audience is not baseball nerds. Our audience is casual fans or lapsed fans. So it's always good to have the perspective of someone who may not be a super fan who can say like, oh, I get this. This resonates with me. This makes me want to go to a game. Like that perspective is super valuable because you just don't want to be a super fan talking to other super fans in a language that no one else can understand.
Camden Bernatz (00:20:59) - Yeah, very good point and that's important. It may seem obvious but there may be there's cases in the past you can point out different campaigns or an executions in which people get too excited in doing that speaking just to like their love group, so to speak, which isn't always bad. But depending on your strategy, if it's to expand the reach, you might be missing the mark a little bit. So sometimes even if you have a great idea to hit a certain audience, it's not the best idea if it's not hitting the right audience, right? That classic marketing adage of right message to the right people at the right time, all those things got to be aligned.
So that's a good point. And I agree with you about it is helpful to have some outside perspective as well to help make sure you're reaching those who maybe are not as in currently ingrained in that brand or in this case, sport.
Josh Bogdan (00:21:46) - Yeah, I mean, I think a mix of both is important. But going back to your question about 62, Aaron Judge Spot, so the genesis of that I think came first from knowing that this campaign can hold so much about baseball so it can hold both raw athleticism like a guy who can smash monster bombs, 62 of them in a season. It also can hold the number nerdiness, number nerdiness, the stats, the people who scrutinize the math of the game, the number crunchers, the Moneyball guys. Like all of that is both part of the game and I'd say that idea first began as like, hey, is there something that can kind of bring those two worlds together? So that I think was in the back of our minds.
And then as the Knicks started working on this brief, I think there is I believe it was New York Magazine article that had some of these stats, but it was within like I don't know, 5,000-word article. And there was a different tweet that we came across about the fact that Aaron Judge hit, who is number 99 hit his 62nd home run the day the Yankees win ‘99 and ‘62. So we're just encountering like all these cool stats, but there's just these bits of information. Then it was just like, hey, can we bring all of these together and combine that in one?
So, what excites me about that specific piece of work is that it does show the intersection of that raw athleticism and the stat nerd who can enjoy baseball so much. Then those guys just did a great job of just creating the world through archival footage and we got some great voice over in there to capture the essence of it, some great music. I think the craft in those 30 seconds really just elevated the idea.
Camden Bernatz (00:24:19) - I was going to mention, I love the voice over. Like, I don't know what a baseball voice would be, but that just sounds like a baseball voice. Like he's got the kind of greediness but the passion and I don't know I thought it was really good, a really good choice there.
Josh Bogdan (00:24:32) - It was I'm going to forget the actor's name. I should know this, but it was a character from the Sopranos.
Camden Bernatz (00:24:39) - Okay.
Josh Bogdan (00:24:39) - I know the character's name, Bobby Baccala. I forget the actor's name. I think –
Camden Bernatz (00:24:44) - Steve Schirripa? That's what I'm hearing. Is that right?
Josh Bogdan (00:24:46) - Yes.
Camden Bernatz (00:24:46) - I got my producer in my ear over here.
Josh Bogdan (00:24:49) - Thank you.
Camden Bernatz (00:24:49) - Sopranos fan, who's from New York. So he's got the connections there. Awesome. That's yeah, way good. And I had a question about the -- you mentioned some archival footage, there's a few different spots and again, for listeners who are obviously just listen to the audio, I encourage you to really go check these out. Check out many of these spots you can both the static print and some of these videos. There's a good variety of different ads that capture this. But about this other one, I think maybe I'm misnaming it. You can tell me if I'm calling it wrong, but I think I saw it called the Overture video. Like the one minute spot. Overture. That one there's no copy with it. It's just a visual and then the music that goes with it's got great timing where to the beat of the song and the music, there's like an impact or a baseball hit or someone's hitting the base or someone's clapping. There's all these different kind of impacts and sounds that align to the beat of the music.
I'm wondering, was that all using footage that B-roll that already had existed that the league owned or did you guys go and shoot for that based on when the idea came first and the video came second?
Josh Bogdan (00:25:59) - Well, I mean, so that was created by Mr. Hal Curtis and Jim Riswald working with an incredible editor, Peter Wilden Smith. And to hear you appreciate the interplay of how the visuals hit precisely on those beats, I think would make them all smile a lot because that is something that they labored on for hours and hours and hours. That was entirely found footage. We did not show the thing. That was something that we took into consideration at the time when we were making this work, that shooting some of this players as you go into spring training and they're getting ready for opening day, just there's not a lot of access. But that said there's also so much to draw from, from MLB’s archives and just from some of the archives that are accessible just around the world that it wasn't any sort of rule like there's absolutely no shooting within this campaign, but it's something that we found that we didn't actually need it. And we thought that budget would be better spent in the crafting of that edit, in the crafting of that footage. Because to get it to hit the way you noticed was a very, very time-consuming process, more of the effort and time in the edit versus obviously in the shoot. I mean, also finding the right footage.
Camden Bernatz (00:27:55) - You still have to sort it through it all, right. So yeah, so note to brands not only take footage when you can, but hang on to it and maybe it may come to use later even if you don't have plans for it right now. It's always good to have more assets in that regard than you need. I think it definitely paid off. This is all good insight. You got time for a few more questions?
Josh Bogdan (00:28:17) - I got time for a couple more.
Camden Bernatz (00:28:18) - All right. So get into the to the again, really pulling back the curtain as much as you feel like you can share. Were there any major disagreements? Was there any like butting of heads where it's like, no, we got to do this. No, it's got to be this. Was it all pretty smooth? Usually these processes have passionate people who fight for different things? Was there any hurdles like that you had to overcome?
Josh Bogdan (00:28:40) - Oh yeah, of course. Come on. That's what makes it interesting. Tons of disagreements but I think in the best possible way. what I mean by that is, I think that you can argue in a counterproductive way and you can argue in a way that makes the work better. I think as long as everyone on the team respects each other, I think arguing for what you believe in is good because that just shows that people care. I want to see someone fight for their point. I like to be proved wrong because that makes the work better. I mean, someone saw something that I didn't see, especially with the characters who are part of this campaign.
Mr. Jim Riswald is known for having strong opinions and I'm phrasing it in the most diplomatic way possible. He would probably laugh that I'm not using stronger words. Riswald is the most amazing character. You can't have a conversation with him without having a story to tell people afterward. He's the only human I've met who's just like he is just like a walking story generator. He gets heated because he cares. He cares deeply. He's been doing this a long time, but he still cares just as much at now as he did when he was working with Spike Lee and Michael Jordan.
Camden Bernatz (00:30:31) - Wow, what an experience to be able to work with them and yeah, I'm sure you've not only benefited from that, but I want to make sure we give you props for how this came to be. I know that it can be hard sometimes to be as a creative director to you have your vision as well. Right? But you're trying to incorporate the different ideas and the work of many different people to have a unified whole and sometimes there may maybe you have multiple good ideas that they can work in different ways, but you can't just Frankenstein them together. You got to still kind of pick a way to make it seamless and stuff and that can be difficult. So again, I keep talking about how much I like this campaign. But I really do. I think it came out in a very powerful way that it's fun but like you said, it was clearly based on strategy.
It wasn't just, oh, that was a quirky ad or that was a fun song they played in the background, but it was like, oh, it connected with, like you said, those who are longtime baseball fans and I could see the appeal for those who maybe had been casual or hadn't really, or like you said, laps fans. Is there anything looking back as your role as creative director that you would maybe do differently if you could do it again or even just any takeaways or learnings that you have from that experience that might be good for our audience to hear about?
Josh Bogdan (00:31:49) - I think one of the exciting things about this campaign was that it just unlocked so much great creative, because of that we were just so eager to share so much with the client. They definitely appreciate it. They had really good taste. But I think it may have been in our interest to maybe be a little more focused of what we share and when we share and more precise. Like it was just kind of like this campaign was just this arcade machine that just kept on spitting out tickets after tickets after tickets. And we were just going to the counter with an armful of like 500… 1,000 tickets.
I think just because we were so excited and because so much of the great creative was flowing, I think maybe next time we're ready to do it again. We maybe just leave some stuff on the side and really just let the very, very best rise to the top.
Camden Bernatz (00:33:01) - That's a good analogy. I can visualize that now. I'm remotivated to, to get to that experience with clients I'm working with and with my team to think about, not think about but to work so that we can get to a place where those kind of ideas flow in that way. That's when it gets fun, right? Maybe leave them on the table. That's when the work becomes a passion and people don't mind spending a few extra hours and putting their brains together because it's exciting and hopefully anybody listening has been inspired by that as well.
Thank you again for being on. I really appreciate that. For those who are interested in following what you're up to or contacting you what's the best way for them to do that?
Josh Bogdan (00:33:45) - Yeah. Well, my website is joshbogden.com. Wow, it feels like I didn't know I was getting into self-promo, but why not?
Camden Bernatz (00:33:53) - We'll give it to you.
Josh Bogdan (00:33:54) - You can hit me up at joshbogdan@gmail.com. And interestingly enough I'm recently freelance, so I had a great, great run at Wine Kenny. Love that place of nothing but great things to say, but now I'm on to some new challenges.
Camden Bernatz (00:34:14) - Awesome. Well, I'll definitely be keeping up on what you're up to and look for more good stuff to come from the Josh Bogdan camp. Thanks again for being on and thanks for those who have tuned into this episode. Again, we would encourage you as always if you like what you're hearing to subscribe, maybe share it with someone you know and stay in tune with the next episodes coming out to get more stories and insights from people and campaigns like what we talked about today.
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