Gerry (00:03): Welcome to the Seidman Mentorship Podcast. This is your captain speaking. On this show, we navigate the voyage of life through the lens of Lakers, some who have just come aboard, and others who are well underway. We will speak with experts who will show us the ropes, help us plot a course, and recount exhilarating tales of uncharted territory, all while promoting lifelong learning agility and a culture of mentorship. Today on the show, I host the director of the GVSU Career Center, Troy Farley. Troy's an alumni from the 1980s when Grand Valley was still a college and not yet a university. He shares insights for both students and employers on how mentorship can lead to employment while enriching the experience of life.

Gerry (00:47): Troy Farley, uncle Troy Farley, as I always say, because, uh, you and I have a parallel shared history at Grand Valley, um, at different times, but didn't know each other, but we go to the way back days, right? Yeah. Of Grand Valley, and you're one of those guests that I always look forward to on the schedule. It's always a challenge though, and this season has been a challenge of all the great guests because I'm reconnecting with my roots here at Grand Valley. And one of the things I always talk about, um, I said this in my graduation speech, I'm saying it again, I think I told you when I came back, was a lot of the folks that I remember from undergrad are still here. And I think that says something about Grand Valley and you're a great example of that, coming back to Grand Valley, our mutual friend and my mentor, Bob Stoll, uh, obviously legendary.

Gerry (01:35): And for me, you're in that legendary Laker category. And I, I call you Uncle Troy, even though we're not related as we pass eachother campus, because I feel like if people, the mentorship connection, I think between people, especially students, is that familial connection. We use this term Laker family all the time, but I really feel like if I really want perspective, I go to Uncle Troy and I love how you, in a very tactful way, have this ability to take the gloves off and talk about what is, right, kind of cut through everything else and talk about what really is. So tell us about your Laker journey thus far.

Troy (02:13): Wow. You, you, you have a schedule for an hour or, or, or less than that. And you're asking me to, question number one, to take the full hour. Um, first of all, you talk about taking the gloves off, and, and I think that comes with a little bit of age. You know, when your, when your hair turns the color mine has turned, um, your filter gets smaller and you do cut to the chase because you don't want to beat around the bush. It's about what is information I can deliver, um, and be sincere about it. Come from a family that did not have any college experience. My father worked in a, a large open pit, um, stone core or, or open pit mine. And my mother was a stay-at-home mother and just wonderful people, but nobody ever talked about college or my college journey. And, uh, when I was in high school, I was on what was called the "VOCED track", where I took a year of building trades, a year of electrical, um, meter construction.

Troy (02:59): Um, and I always had basic math, basic geog - basic geography, and, um, um, English. And my senior year, um, I started having conversations about what would college look like. And then I got a phone call from this school called Grand Valley State College. And it was from the track coach, uh, coach Klinger about maybe running track at the institution. That was the first time it's like, "I think I could do this". And, so, I applied to Grand Valley. I got accepted, I came down for, for an orientation. And at that point in time, they told me that, um, I'm accepted. All they need now is my ACT score. I never thought I would ever take the ACT based on the program I was in high school. So I went home, talked to my high school guidance counselor, scheduled an ACT score, and, um, obviously did not do well.

Troy (03:41): Um, came down to Grand Valley, probably very unprepared, uh, for the academic rigor of the university. Uh, found myself at Grand Valley my first year, um, getting a little bit of trouble. My grades were really poor and I got in a lot of trouble, um, right, no filter. But my sophomore year, things started to change. Um, as, as I as I, as I made some mistakes on the college campus. I had to go to the campus judicial system, and they were looking at maybe dismissing me from the university, me and my roommate, who's now the city manager of Greenville, Michigan. And we met a guy, this guy you talked about, called Bob Stoll. And previous to that, I met a guy named Andy Beachnau. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, uh, you know, I think today we're gonna talk a little bit about mentorship and, and, and how do you find a mentor?

Troy (04:25): Well, I found a mentor based on about to be removed from the university and who, who two, two of the individuals said, "I see something in these guys that's beyond the mischief." You know, there was no drinking, there was no drugs, there was no vandalism. Just crazy stupid things. And so at the time, I didn't know what a mentor was, but they, they became my mentor, and both of them really got me through school. They improved my grades. They got me connected into clubs and organizations, the first ever Grand Valley Sportsman Club, you know, student life, right? Sitting there talking about sportsman. Um, a lot of fun. And I found that my first two years went from, from, "why am I here?" To, "I belong here." Um, went on to graduate, um, spent 15 years in corporate America. And then probably the greatest thing ever happened to me is I got terminated from my position, uh, back in, back in the early two thousands.

Troy (05:19): And back then, you know, it was, it was, you got terminated, but it's called a mutual separation. And then you signed a 13 page document that basically says that you've agreed to leave the company as, as well as we do. And, um, and I got paid basically a year not to work. And at the time, I was working at Grand, working at Grand Valley. I was a volunteering at Grand Valley on the Career Center's advisory board. And we had a meeting the following week, and I got a call from Chris Pluff, who is the acting director of the career center at the time, or interim director. Um, and I said, you know, Chris, I might not make the meeting. I have some, some, some things have to resolve this December, um, probably start looking for work at some point in time. Right? And I told Chris, and Chris says, well, let's come in and chat about that.

Troy (06:03): So I came in and Chris said, Hey, why don't you, if you can't work in your industry for a year, 'cause of a non-compete clause, come work at Grand Valley. And I said, doing what? I barely got through Grand Valley. And he said, you know, Troy, we could put you to work in the career center helping students. I didn't know what that looked like, didn't know what it meant. And I said to my wife, you know what? I have nothing else to do. Um, I can't work in my industry for a year. I'm gonna give this thing a try. And I was working 20 hours a week for the university. And after about six weeks, I came home and my wife said, I, I've never seen you so excited about work. And I said to her, I'll never forget this. I said, I've never had a job I hadn't enjoyed, but I never had a job. I've got to enjoy so much because if I do my job right, Sandy, as an adjunct, and I dunno what I'm doing every day I go to work, I can help change a student's life. That's a powerful thing to say. You get to do it for a living. I considered it a privilege and not a right. And 19 years later, you know, started as a adjunct, then became an assistant, then an associate, and I'm the director of the career center.

Gerry (07:04): I echo and parallel. That's, that's my story in a nutshell. Just you shift the time just a little bit forward. I know part of the answer to this, and I, and you alluded to it and you T'd it up so nicely. Um, back in the day, we didn't have formal mentorship programs. You just, you came to mentorship usually because you had to. Um, you outlined that well. I had a similar situation, like, man, I gotta get my ducks in a row, or, or, I'm outta here. Right? And then I realized that I need help, couldn't do it alone. And that's what kind of led me down the mentorship path as well. Um, where today it's more formalized, but I also think the demands are, are different today than they were in our time. And I'll get to that. But tell us about those, those mentors, you know? Yeah. The shout outs to the, the people you talked about and what mentorship looked like for you.

Troy (07:53): You know, it's really interesting. I didn't even know the word mentorship existed when these people started to become a part of my life. And, and what I had found is that, uh, before they became what I would call a mentor, um, they really became a trusted friend. And then they started giving me advice. What I found the advice they were giving me was so natural to the conversation. It wasn't like a mentor right up here, and then I'm down here. It was a conversation. Um, in fact, I'll, I'll, I'll add this. I think sometimes, um, you know, that was back in the eighties and now we're in the, the, the, the, you know, 2023, we have all these formal programs, which I really applaud. But sometimes the truest mentorship comes in places that you don't realize it. And we don't even know it's a mentorship.

Troy (08:38): It's like the word networking, right? Soon as I say, what is networking? Well, most of them do it naturally every day, but we wanna put a fancy term to it. But, but, but the mentors, you know, I encourage all students to find a mentor, but really find a trusted advisor. And they change, they change over time. What's really interesting is Bob Stoll and Andy Beach were my mentors when I was a student. They were mentors when I figured out like college, what I'm here for, and then a little bit of career. But then my 15 years I was gone from hired to working in corporate America. I still stayed in contact with them, you know, probably more so as a friend, because I had new mentors, um, a guy named Dave Prosco, and guy named Herb Lantinga. People that helped me in my positions because they cared about me and they cared about my success because they saw that I was willing, I was worth the investment of their time.

Troy (09:29): And I didn't even know it was a mentorship back then. Um, it just was natural. Fast forward to, I come back to Grand Valley, guess who's still here. Andy Beachnau, and Bob Stoll, you know, and they're both still very important to me. I talk to Andy Beachnau probably three times a week. Each time I talk to him, we'll talk maybe a little bit about family, maybe about kids, about the university. But I always have questions I can ask him. And he gives me very good sound advice. And what's really kind of cool about it is Andy will now ask me questions too.

Gerry (10:03): Bob Stoll, uh, was, was on our podcast the very first season, because I wanted an example of that. And so we've shared that. And again, echo your parallel, people that mentored me, encouraged me and helped me become the best me I could be. You and I have talked about mentorship before, and you had described kind of methods of mentorship. And I see this reoccurring theme now as we get into the third year of this mentorship program, is the best mentors do the hard work part, what I call task-based mentorship. And you've described this before, as some of your best meetings were, you went in with a mentor, and when you realized what you were doing, you brought a list of things that you were working on, and you would give updates on those lists. The other side of that is this, what I call platonic mentorship, where, you know, you and I come in, I don't necessarily have an agenda, but we have a conversation. And outta that conversation, mentorship happens. Yeah. Almost a, a stealth drive by, you know, mentorship. Which way do you, do you have a preferred style of, of how you do that? Yeah. Do you not think about it? Um, because I think people are interested in this, because a lot of times when I find mentorships fail or people come to me like, look, I'm not working well with this person. It's usually because one person is one type and the other person's the other type, and they haven't found a way to meet in the middle.

Troy (11:20): Well, it's, it's really interesting. And, and I think there's many ways to do it. And again, it's gotta be natural and it's gotta be two willingful parties wanting to engage in the conversation. I'm gonna ask a question, I need some feedback. Please advise me. Listen to what I have to say. Tell me what you would do or, or, or, or guide. Um, and then we talk about our day, our family, um, what's going on this weekend, a little bit about life. So another mentor would be Dave Prosco. We both worked at a company called Daymon Worldwide together. And Damon was my supervisor, but also a mentor, which is kind of an interesting situation when that happens. But we would start our conversations with a little bit about life, a little bit about work, what's going on, vacations, um, family, friends. And then we would get into the mentorship.

Troy (12:03): Now the mentorship though, was interesting because a true mentor's gonna tell you things you might not want to hear. Um, and, and, and, and if they really mentor, are mentoring you, they know you really well. And that's what's so cool about good mentorship programs is given what Dave knew about me, he could word things in a way that I received it really well. There was a trust between us and how it was delivered, even though it was critical, it was things that were hard to hear at times. I never felt threatened or intimidated. And so I think there's, there's almost an art of mentorship by building that relationship first and putting the conversation on the table. You know, I've had a couple students ask me to be mentors, and I tell them, this is more, this is more difficult 'cause it changes our relationship. Um, I'm willing to do it, but you've gotta be willing to do it too, because don't do it because somebody told you to do it, because you wanna know.

Gerry (12:59): It's the number one, uh, challenge. So I literally walked over from Seidman where I was on a, on a webinar with people doing mentorship. And these are universities across the country. And the latest, greatest PhD student has written another paper about mentorship. And I sat there and I listened to the same things that you and I are talking about. If there was a book, a guide, a perfect way to do this, it would've been written by now, we've got 80,000 titles on leadership <laugh>, because they sell well, right? Sure. And we're on our way to 80,000 copies of mentorship books. Um, somebody stopped me in the parking lot, professor from Seidman, and said, Hey, Gerry, you know, I'm consulting these companies and I keep hearing the word mentorship over and over and over and over and over again. Why do you, you know, you have, you have this awesome position because you're one of the few bridges between our students and our, um, employers, right?

Gerry (13:53): So the students know you're here. 'cause you come to the career center and you're here. I know you're here because you have this big booming voice. And when I hear Uncle Troy talking, I know you're here. But what they don't know is your connection to the community and how you go out to businesses, you visit businesses, you host a career fair, but you don't just show up on career fair day. You've recruited these people, you know them. So why is there a sudden interest, in your opinion, about mentorship on the career and the business side.

Troy (14:25): Flavor of the week? Um, you know, actually, I don't think mentorship programs ever did not exist. Um, we just now put a formal word to them. And people are writing more books, there's more blogs, there's podcasts that's right about mentorship. But they've always been taking place. And, and I also wanna say about mentorships is, you know, there's, they come in many shapes and forms. You know, if you were to Google memberships or mentorships, I'm assuming they're gonna be talking about monthly meetings, biweekly meetings, twice a year, meetings, whatever. It can be all the above. Um, I, I have students that I used to work with. So, so as you know, Gerry, I spent, uh, my first six years in the college of business, um, doing career advising for students, um, with a particular interest to the CPA, um, students because they needed a lot of career help because this whole CPA was a new thing in addition to their accounting degree.

Troy (15:12): And, and spent a lot of time, probably four to six appointments with them as students. 10 years later, I might not have heard a word from that student. In 10 years, I'll get a phone call, Hey Troy, it's so and so, you know, and I remember them all. In fact, I used to have every resume since 2004 that I worked with a student. And I always laugh because when I'm talking to them, I pull up their original resume and tell 'em things and they'll say, how did you remember that? And then I tell 'em, 'cause I'm looking at the first resume we did. And, uh, so we kinda laugh about that. But then they'll, they'll we'll check in and then they'll say, Hey, I got a question and I've been here 10 years. I'm looking to make a change. You know, can I, can I get some opinions from you?

Troy (15:51): And, and, and I'll schedule coffee. Um, or, or we'll meet offsite. And I'm amazed how the relationship is still there. It never really left because they trusted me then, I trusted them back then they were vulnerable when we put the resume together with what they knew and what they didn't know. And I was vulnerable with who I am and how I work. And now 10 years later, we're giving professional advice to each other. Um, I'm helping them in their next career move. And so that mentorship is, looks different. 'cause we don't do it every week, every year, but it still counts because it's a trusted relationship based on a history together.

Gerry (16:27): The, a couple episodes ago we talked specifically about vulnerability and how difficult it seems, uh, nowadays people are super insulated. People are super polished. That's what they're posting on the post their social media, right? It's either my best day or my worst day. Um, and that vulnerability piece seems to come up over and over again. And the key to the relationship, any relationship mm-hmm. <affirmative>, not just a mentorship, whether it's a friendship or whatever. I think everybody remembers that time where either they finally felt the trusted friend and advisor to share something that was, you know, difficult or vulnerable or the time where they had to, or that person shared with them mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that seems to deepen the relationship. And we see that, um, over and over again. So the next question that I want to ask is from the student side. What does students not do that you wish they would do?

Troy (17:21): Two things. Well, many things, but two that just pop in my mind, and I'm so glad I did not read the questions because these are natural thoughts that are coming as you're asking them. One is, be more vulnerable and learn how to tell a story. And, and lemme lemme talk about the vulnerability. Um, I took my first job at a company called Notions Marketing Corporation, still around in Grand Rapids. Um, the owner's name was Herb Lantinga. And they were this growing company. And they hired me, not based on my academic performance, but based on the interview we talked about being vulnerable in storytelling. You know, they loved my story and my upbringing. He said, you were able to tell that really well. 'cause it tells me you're a hard worker. It tells me that you, you'll take on any new opportunity where you can prove yourself.

Troy (18:06): So we, we told stories in the interview. The second thing is, when they hired me, is they gave me a position I knew nothing about. And you know, they, they, they basically were gonna send me to the East coast, um, for two weeks out of the month. Gone a week, back a week, gone a week, back a week. And I was gonna do that for probably two to three years. And I had said to him, uh, Mr. Lantinga, Herb Lantinga, I've never been on a plane before and I'm really nervous. He couldn't believe it. I'm 24 years old, never been on a plane. So what did Herb do? He scheduled himself with me on the first trip. He sat next to me on the plane. He's sitting there calm and cool. And I'm looking out the window like I'm on the best roller coaster ride that ever existed.

Troy (18:43): And then we got to the account and, um, called James Way. And he said, Troy, he says, um, are, are, how do you feel about going into this meeting? And I said, I'm really nervous. You know, this is the first time I've got a suit coat and a tie going into a professional meeting in a corporate setting. And he says, sit next to me and watch me. He says, we'll have some fun together. And literally five years later, um, he had taught me so much that I would've never have got, had not been vulnerable my first couple days. So be vulnerable. You know, companies want the true you. In today's world of social media and LinkedIn, all those things that current students do, everybody hypes themself up a little more than they probably should. Um, and then they become vulnerable because what if they can't live up to the expectations when they start working there? Be who you are and be authentic.

Gerry (19:34): And then that launches into, uh, then they come to me and say, Gerry, I'm having problems with imposter syndrome. Well, you, you, you created the, the piece. And one of my favorite things is you're always at career fair. I'm usually at career fair. I won't say always. I don't have a perfect record, but I'm usually there, um, tying, trying to mentor on the floor. Right? You know, I'm talking to students who are standing there, and I have walked up behind folks who are engaging with employers, and they see me with my tag on that says, you know, alumni staff, they, they know they don't want to talk to me. And I listen to students tell stories, and then I look at the person across and on a couple occasions they're alumni and I know them, right? And the student is telling a story and they're kind of blowing it, right?

Gerry (20:15): Because they're, they're hyping themselves up or they're claiming something, or they're trying to answer a question they really don't know. And they just couldn't back up to, and I'm not saying I would've done any better mm-hmm. <affirmative> as an undergraduate, they can't back up to, you know what, I actually don't know the answer to that question. That is the vulnerability and integrity piece, I think you can't display in a resume. And that gets you the job. I had a similar experience in my very last promotion to my last job in corporate America, which was a big deal. It was a huge sales territory. We're talking multimillion dollars worth accounts. And I remember the interviewer said to me, interview question, I think it's number 17, um, why are you the best candidate for the job? And I just off the cuff. So I was, I was kind of mad.

Gerry (20:54): I was an internal candidate. It was the fifth interview. I'm like, if you don't want me by now, like, let's just get it over with, right? And I looked at him and I said, I don't know that I am. And the interviewer said, well, how can you say that? How can you come into the final interview and not say that? And I said, well, well, let me explain what I, I said, I said, I know a lot of people that applied for this job. You got a stack of resumes over there. I don't know that I'm the best candidate for the job, but you know me and I've worked for the company for 10 years and you know the work that I do and we've worked together. And if that's the kind of person you want for this role, I'm your guy. If not, that's okay. Yeah. And they later told me that's the answer that got me the job was I could back up say, I don't know, and then defend, you know, my position through that and be kind of, kind of vulnerable.

Troy (21:33): Well, part of being vulnerable also is, is is talking about your failures. Everybody thinks you have to live off your successes, but you really learn from those failures. And, and, and when you talk to an organization, a hiring manager, a leader at, at, at, at, at a company, everybody fails. And the older you are before you have a major fail, the more difficult it is to get back up. And so they want students and they want candidates who have failed early and maybe even often. And it's, what did you do to overcome it? And that's the key, you know, uh, students get struck in interviews. You know, it's, so two things. Career fairs, you talked about a career fair. Um, students don't realize, or candidates don't realize that every time they walk up to a table, that person they're talking to, probably within five to seven years, was them.

Troy (22:21): They know what you're going through. They're empathetic, they understand. You know, I've always said, you know, there's a lot of terms that I just struggle with. And one is, you know, your elevator speech. First of all, most students don't even know what an elevator speech is nowadays. <laugh>, you know. But when you plan to memorize something for 30 seconds and then you get off kilter, you make a mess of yourself. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> just go up and have a conversation. And that's why at our career fairs, we made it really easy for students by putting those GVSU alumni, um, uh, ribbons with the recruiters that are there. Or if they're from other schools, they have their ribbons. And we tell the students, go find the blue ribbon. That's where you start your conversation and you can relate to them right away. So there's so many things we can do to help them that aren't complex. They're not that difficult, but they're extremely beneficial.

Gerry (23:09): I wanna plug two things that I think people forget about the career center. And number one is preparation for career fair starts now. It doesn't start the day before. So I know you get inundated with people who are like, Ooh, I gotta print my, my resume or whatever. Go to career fair. The second piece of this is the secret, the secret life hack. And use today's parlance. I tell freshmen and sophomores go to the career fair and they never think to do it because they think, well, I have to be a senior. No you don't. You go as a freshman, you have absolutely no skin in the game. You have no chips on the the table. Nobody's expecting anything. Go around, talk to blue ribbons. Just meet people. Just try it out. Go. Every year I go and I see the IRS enforcement agents, the guys that look like FBI cops, they're standing there, they got guns on, right?

Gerry (23:58): And it says I r s and there is a 10 foot invisible wall and nobody talks to 'em. And I invited a mentee in the program who's a freshman. I said, you know what, you see those guys over there? They're begging. They wish someone would come and talk to them 'cause they're here at this career fair and they look like cops and FBI agents. I'm like, what a cool job though. You know? And maybe it won't be a job. It doesn't matter. You don't have to ask for a job, just go up and ask 'em what they do. Yeah. Collect a card. But could you imagine? And I'm a big fan still of business cards. I know they're archaic, but I tell all my mentees, get a business card. 'cause it's that natural script of how we meet each other, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And now we have a thing to talk about.

Gerry (24:34): Imagine IRS enforcement agent, this freshman goes up, gets a card, holds onto that card, three years later they're a junior and they walk up and make the identification. Say, Hey, you know what, three years ago I came and I talked to you and I thought about this, and this is, you know, I went on your website, I did all the other things, and now I'm kind of interested in talking about that internship that would blow a recruiter away. Absolutely. Um, and it's such a simple social script, and I feel like every time I get excited, like you do, when I get up and I go to work, I'm like, I get to get in this time machine and go back and correct the things I wish I had known. Now, if you, if we had this Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure Time Machine, which nobody who listens to this podcast remembers that movie, great movie.

Gerry (25:19): And go back and find Troy and Gerry, and I guarantee we told them, Hey, in the future, the guys that used to live in, you know, I lived in Copeland, right? Good ol' Copeland, yeah. Room 313, which isn't, they actually took down my room. That's how bad it was when I was here. Right? 313 Copeland doesn't exist. And tell Gerry Cooke, you're gonna work at Grand Valley someday and have an MBA I'd laughed in your face. So hard, so hard. Uh, you just don't understand those connections and how they work out. It leads into the, the the next question I wanna ask you is, is there such a thing as self mentoring? And if so, or if not, what do you do to either self mentor or prepare for mentorship?

Troy (26:03): So, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell a story that probably is indirectly related to the question, but somewhat related to the question or the conversation we just had. Um, we talked about being vulnerable. What does vulnerability look like? Um, you don't wake up and say, I think I'm gonna be vulnerable today, <laugh>, it's part of who you are and what happens. Um, probably eight, nine years ago, uh, I went to a, I went to, I go to all the career fairs. I was at a career fair. And President Haas, the former GVSU President, always went to our career fairs. And he'd find me before the career fair started and say, Hey, what are five to seven companies I should go engage and interact with? And why? And why? What's the why? Right? They hire a lot of our students, they're new here, whatever. And so he'd pulled me aside, we have this conversation and, and we were having this conversation and I saw somebody from our office point over to the two of us while we were talking. And this young man walks up and, uh, his name is Adam Estrada. I don't know if you know who Adam is, I don't, um, alum from GVSU. Um, and he had a bright blue suit, a sky blue suit with a striking bow tie, and I think a tuxedo shirt underneath it.

Gerry (27:09): Sky blue back then was, was laker blue right

Troy (27:12): Before the, no, it was light blue. It was like, it was light blue, like, like the, the coffee cup you looking, it was a light blue, something you'd wear on a tropical, you know, wedding or something. And he had bow tie and then he had a big leather briefcase. Um, not a, he had a shoulder strap attache. But, but, but it was really cool. And, and I, and I thought he knew President Haas. And so I, I, you know, said, Hey President Haas, I think somebody's here to see you. And he looked at President Haas and says, no, I'm really not. I'm here to see you <laugh>. And um, and, and I kinda said, well, how can I help you? And, and, and I said, I do. How can I help you? He said, well, he says, I've never been to a career fair before and I'm here and I was told to find you that you may be able to help me.

Troy (27:53): I said, sure, Adam. I said, what is your major? I think I'm gonna be a business major, but I don't know, I've only been at school for six weeks. I'm a freshman. I said, what brought you here? He goes, well, I heard a presentation. They talked about this career fair and that freshmen, all classes are welcome. So I decided to come. Okay, perfect. So, so I said, here's five companies you should go talk to. And I picked companies that I knew would be freshman friendly or, or companies that would be, let someone who's vulnerable go chat with them. But I stereotype, I thought he's had good coaching at home. He must be a second generation young man. Look how he looks. Not many seniors would wear that suit to a career fair. And here he is a freshman walking around with it. And, uh, so I sent him to five companies and I said, when you're done, please check in with me.

Troy (28:41): I was kinda worried about him. I'm like, this guy's overconfident, but he seems to be a little bit vulnerable. So at the end of it, he comes out to me and he told me the companies he talked to, and one was Stacey Sarabia at Steelcase, and I knew Stacey very well. So I decided to do a follow up. And I said, Hey Stacey. I went over to her booth. How did Adam do? She goes Troy it was the most amazing conversation I've ever had with somebody. Didn't know that there was companies that just made office furniture, but he would've treated, he asked me if he could set up a time to learn more <laugh>. So now he's basically sent, I wanna set up an interview, right? And she said, she goes, Troy, she goes, I'm gonna go back and tell the team and we're gonna entertain him for a conversation.

Troy (29:18): And she goes, honestly, it's gonna be an interview. I said, wow. So call Adam, come on in and see me. So he shows up to see me and I said, I gotta tell you, man, that suit you wore to the career field was really interesting and pretty loud. He goes, did you like it? He said, I've never had a suit on before. And he said, I went to Goodwill. And, um, it was a suit that I found. He goes, it'll fit me. And I said, what about the leather case? He goes, bought that there too. 10 bucks. I said, um, I said, the bow tie. He goes, I've always liked bow ties. So I just decided to put one on <laugh>. And um, and he says, I got good news. He said, Steelcase called me back and they want, they wanna bring me in for a conversation. Good for you. He said, Troy, he goes, I looked up the company after I got back from the career fair. They're a big company, you know, and we always talk about if students go to career, they gotta prepare, et cetera. So anyway, he, he goes in for this conversation, comes out with an internship

Gerry (30:04): As a freshman, as a

Troy (30:05): Freshman. He worked there for four years in a progressive work-based internship program. Um, at the end of the four years, they offered him a position and he said, no, I'm gonna go on to Chicago to work somewhere else. Um, but it was four amazing years for Steelcase and amazing years for him. By the time he was a junior, he was doing the work of an entry level person. Just a great story. But he was vulnerable. And when he talked with them, he told his story. The story told him, being a freshman first generation, dunno what I'm doing, but I'm here. He told them that. They loved his story. So, so telling your story for what it is, not what you think they want to hear is being vulnerable, but also teaches you how to tell

Gerry (30:44): A story. Mentorship, we're always looking for ways, uh, very parallel to, um, what you do in career center. And I often, uh, we talked about this before we start the cast, I am having trouble finding topics that haven't been covered by the career, career center mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because you guys have been podcasting before podcasting was podcasting. We talked about that. Um, and you do such a good job with that. But literally, I have students being vulnerable come to me like, I just don't know how to meet people. I don't know how to, how to do these things or tell a story or how do you carry on the conversation? And we've literally, now yesterday we were actually shooting videos. They're a little cheeky, they're a little, it really is as easy, but it's different for our generation to their generation. And I'd like you to talk a little bit about the landscape, because I remember in marketing, um, in Grand Valley, back when I went to Grand Valley undergrad, there was this new upstart discipline at Seidman and it was called marketing, right?

Gerry (31:39): So you went to Seidman, you went to accounting, you went to finance, you went to management, the big three mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's what you had. And then there was this new upstart thing called marketing. I, you went to these classes and these professors jump up and down and say, Hey, everything is marketing by the way, history's repeating itself. 'cause now marketing, of course is entrenched and we have this new upstart called Supply chain management. And um, I know that professor's listening that I had an MBA who in the first day tried to convince us that everything is supply chain related. I get it. They're forging their course. My my point of where I'm going with this is I think there's a very unique culture in West Michigan. And if you want to go to Chicago or Chicago, go ahead. I always tell students, west Michigan is probably gonna be here.

Gerry (32:24): You can come back mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But if you want to jump out and go do a thing, or you always wanted to live in North Carolina, go do it. Go do it. And, and then come back if you want to. But talk a little bit about the dynamic between our generation, the people who are running companies and holding the reigns right now. Now and what you hear and the generation. 'cause you again, hear both, and I hear bashing frankly on both sides. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I hear employers must be going, ah, kids don't wanna work today. No, no, no. And I hear, um, students saying, these employers are out of touch. And I pulled some interview stuff from you that I'm not gonna quote back to you, but recently in an interview you had talked about, look, students today wanna know why they're working and if your company's not thinking about green or not thinking about social innovation, you're in trouble because there's a lot of jobs available. So talk a little bit about that dynamic and either defend or, um, I don't wanna say attack, but I wanna say, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>, affirm or deny Yeah. What you see between this generational, uh, gap.

Troy (33:25): So there is a bit of a gap. Um, you know, I graduated in 1988, tough economy. Uh, you, you took the first job that was available. You, you did not, nobody talked about negotiating your salary. <laugh>. Um, you just said thank you. Duties

Gerry (33:40): As assigned. Duties

Troy (33:41): As assigned, and, and, and you didn't even know your benefit package until after you started working there. Um, very

Gerry (33:47): True.

Troy (33:47): And in your job was basically to put in as many hours as you can to impress people. Now, I don't know if that was required or we just did it and everybody did it. I started at Notions Marketing there was four of us that kind of went into the same position at the same time. And you talk about being competitive. Sure. We worked well together, but we also were competing because one of the four was gonna become the next account manager. Such

Gerry (34:11): A very 1980s, 1990s. Look, guys, we're bringing five people in, but there's only one slot available. Yeah. So after six months, we're taking the top person and what a terrible but efficient way for companies to get the candidates. Yeah.

Troy (34:24): And, and ironically, um, the culture of the company was, was really positive. You worked hard, you played hard, but you helped each other. And, and what we found though was that, you know, 55 hour work weeks were probably normal. Um, and this is before really the internet, the, you know, where you were,

Gerry (34:43): 55 hours in the office, in the

Troy (34:45): Office because didn't

Gerry (34:46): Include your lunch breaks, smoke breaks, whatever we had back then. Yeah.

Troy (34:49): You, you were there at six 30 to seven and you left at six 30 to seven at night, and you came in Saturdays because the only place you could do the work was the work. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> because of the technology that they did have and all your office whatever. Um, but, but so, so it, it has changed. Today's student, and I get it, part of me is jealous, um, because they understand who they are more than I probably knew who I was. And they understand the good of an organization that has some social innovation, um, encourages volunteering. You know, if you work a a, a full day at Habitat for Humanity, you pick up an extra four hours of comp time, you know, PTO time, um, you know, companies that focus on the community and culture. And so I really think that most organizations today are much better positioned because we know more and we can do more and the social innovation is, is, is is just more prevalent. While they're interviewing the company

Troy (35:49): better be able to bring it to life. A lot of companies have fancy mission, vision statements and values, and it looks really good on their website, but it's not part of the corporate culture. In today's student, when they get to ask questions to the organization, they're gonna find that out, but they're also gonna look at their social media, right. And, and ask questions through other Grand Valley students who work through, through LinkedIn or other, um, platforms. And they're gonna know before they start, if this is really an organization I wanna work for, they're in a little more control. Sometimes I think too much control. But, but I, but I get it. But as far as what companies look for, I, I laugh because every year the, the nace, national Association of College and Educators, or College and Employers has to serve the top things employers look for. It's the same as 1988, problem solving communication skills, technical skills. Right. So the skills have never changed. Um, so I, I think although a lot has changed the basic of working what they want in somebody problem solving and critical thinking is probably paramount. Every student should be able to answer the questions about how you solved a problem, how you handled conflict, how you critically thought through something, um, and what was the results? Kinda the old star method.

Gerry (37:09): The very old, but still works. Uh, yeah. STAR method sets. Yeah.

Gerry (37:14): So talk a little bit, the other side of this coin, you talk, you address kinda the student side. There's employers that listen to our podcast, um, and your podcast. What's your advice to them? Because I get calls too, as part of my purview is I work with internships, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I am the guy who kind of shuffles paperwork back and forth. You're the guy who, uh, allows people to post internships and kind of does that, that part of the matchmaking. What are employers not doing that they should do when it comes to recruiting and training? Today's, you know, like college student. It's,

Troy (37:48): It's really good. First of all, I would, I would highly recommend every employer has some type of experiential education or formal internship program. It's very intentional. Now, the good news is we'll train them and we have a complete workshop on how to, but it's gotta be with, with intentionality. And if you do it right, it's your pipeline. It's your talent pipeline. You know, we know that about 60% of GVSU interns end up working for the company they interned at. So if you're a company that does not have an internship and you say you can't find talent, think about it. 60% of the top performers out of every graduating class already spoken. That's huge. Before, before their senior year. You know, I, I, um, again, I I have a small filter, um, and when I go to a company, I tell them they gotta want it more than me.

Troy (38:30): Um, I'm doing just fine. Most of our students that are, that are really out there, are gonna find a job, right? Or a career. Um, so they gotta own it. And owning it is not post a job or show up at a career fair. It's engage, engage, engage. You know, over at Seidman, every Thursday in the fall, we have a tabling event. Employers showcase. And, and it's an informal way, for instance, to walk up and have a conversation with any company who's there. They can be in shorts, t-shirts, a hoodie or a suit. We don't care. Nor does the employer, you know, donuts with Deloitte, they don't care if you're a marketing major and accounting major because they have jobs that will fit 'em all. But the students gotta start engaging, but so do the employers. When an employer calls and says, I can't find talent on a college campus.

Troy (39:10): After I have the conversation with them, I say to them, I figured it out. You can't find the talent, but you haven't looked, here's what we can do to help you. The companies who say, I use Grand Valley and it's a pretty fertile ground. They're engaged, they're here, they show up. We had, um, last year, 1,133 employers engage on our campus and the majority of those companies. And it could, they're not unique. It could be some duplicates, right? One company might be here five times, they're not having the same problem. The company that calls me and says, we can't find talent. We've had it posted out there for three months, but I've never been to your college campus, or I don't have an active internship program. And so I put a lot of pressure, but also a lot of help to get the companies to understand, here's what we can help you put together a talent pipeline program starting with experiential education.

Gerry (40:02): We run parallel to you on that. And I don't, we, it would be interesting for you and I to compare figures, but I would bet a thousand dollar bill, that also the companies who are engaging and recruiting and retaining those 60% Grand Valley students have employees in our mentorship program. Because if you want a soft way and you're the employer that's out there, that's maybe a little bit one of the legacy companies around here having trouble engaging. I always tell folks, when's the last time you had a conversation with a college student who wasn't either related to you or working for you? Because those aren't necessarily genuine. Those are scripted conversations. And the CEO or the owner will tell me, well, Gerry, I don't have time for that. Okay? But you have employees who do have time for that. So assign five employees to pick up five mentees and then ask them what they're learning.

Gerry (40:53): And by the way, here's a great soft interview tactic. Work with a student as their mentor. They want to learn what you want. In fact, today's student more than I think us wants to be led to "How, how do I get to the fit? What do you want me to know? How, how does this really work?" Uh, a majority of our students at Seidman, you and I have talked about this, work regular jobs. I run into students every year who maybe have never been to an office environment. And some of our best experiential learning is when I'm like, Hey, um, let's get a bus from Herman Miller and go do a site visit and load up, um, some of our, you know, top mentor mentees and go down there mm-hmm. <affirmative> and see that, um, back in the day, you and I were encouraged, and we don't recommend this tactic.

Gerry (41:40): This is, this is guerrilla warfare. In the eighties and nineties, you and I learned to go to that employer and cold call. We knocked on doors. We called at 5:15 in the evening because we knew the secretary of the CEO went home and they answered their own phone at 5:15. And I remember making those phone calls and trying to get an audience with that, um, and being whipped by the taskmasters of, of the people in my family. And I was fortunate not being first generation of that support system you talked about. But if you don't have that, the good news is all of the resources. And I think sometimes at Grand Valley, we have too many resources. Yeah. And we have a ton of noise, uh, out there for the students. So, real quickly as we kind of wrap up our conversations, you're a freshman incoming at Grand Valley or you're a senior Grand Valley.

Gerry (42:30): What do you see as the missed opportunities for resources at Grand Valley? And I'm gonna ask you to name a few of your top ones. So I'm, I'm asking you to play favorites a little bit. Um, and obviously I I, I'm gonna go ahead and step right out and say, the neat thing about Career Center was I never used Career Center Services until 2020 during the pandemic when I, I was separated from my career. Right? So that's a lifelong benefit as a Laker the Career Center. And if you, if I haven't sold you on Uncle Troy at this point in the podcast and you're still listening, I, I know you're sold. So career center lifetime benefit. So I'm gonna take that one and we'll put that one right on the pedestal on the shelf and say, yeah, but what other resources do the students miss?

Troy (43:13): So I'm gonna mention two of 'em. Um, 3 1, 1 is kind of a, a cap capstone, and I say Capstone, um, higher ed loves technology. We love self-directed modules, right? You go on any website, you're gonna, you go on the career center website, you're gonna come to something called Pathway U. It's self-directed. It's online. You can do it on your own and it's gonna give you some good information. Um, but the best resources at Grand Valley, and I think Grand Valley is really good at this. Go talk to somebody. You can do all the self-directed things in the career center. You might think you have a great resume that nobody should ever need to see in the Career center because it's good. My roommate looked at it. Um, come into the career center and meet people. You'd be amazed how many people walk outta here with hot leads because of the time for which they came in.

Troy (44:04): Quick story the other day, Lori Staggs, our Seidman advisor. I walked by her office. She has a student and who has taken three classes at Grand Valley. He has his undergrad at another school. He's looking to get into, um, another business degree at Grand Valley. I think it was gonna be in finance. And he's taken three classes and he thought he needed another degree because he wasn't getting jobs. Um, well, he wasn't interviewing for the companies that he wanted to be at either. And so I go back to my office, I meet him, I get a phone call from a company and said, Hey Troy, we're looking for someone who's raw that's moldable for an entry level position for about eight months, and we're gonna put 'em in a different role, but we have four roles. They can go into one of four roles. So we want to use this first couple months to figure out who they are.

Troy (44:44): And I went down and gave him the information. He called and said I have an interview on Friday. Then he had an interview the second Friday. Monday, two days ago, I got an, or three days ago, got an email thanking me and Lori Staggs because he is now working for CED. Timing. We talked, we were at three employers in the last two weeks. Every employer told us a position they had a hard time filling. I don't go look to see if it's on Handshake, but if you come in and you're, you're, you're a quality individual and you feel like it's a job you're worthy of, I will call the organization and say, Hey, I got a resume to send you. It's a good second thing, faculty office hours. Um, I am such a big fan of faculty office hours. If you have a question, if you have a concern, if you have nothing because you get an A in the class, go meet and talk to your faculty when they have open office hours. I talk to faculty all the time who say they're not that busy. Not many students go interact with them. So that tells me, if you are one that do, you're gonna get a lot of conversation. Guess who knows a lot of employers? Faculty. Guess who's amazing career advisors in their own world. Faculty. And they'll give you all the time you can take.

Gerry (45:58): It's my first mentorship at Grand Valley. I was not doing well in a class and I went to office hours. And that's how my first, I didn't call it that at that time either. I didn't realize that. And I just kept coming back because the faculty was engaging. Not just like, let me re-explain that concept to you, Gerry, but, um, the stuff in their office. And, and this was one of the things that I was taught in sales, and you probably were too, is you look around somebody's office, a lot of offices here at Grand Valley. There's something in that office that's interesting and unique. I use Professor Kevin Leonard in marketing all the time. Yeah, yeah. He was on the show. First time I met him. I walked in his office. The guy's got a turntable, the vinyl collection and comic books on the wall. We have something to talk about here that's unusual. I don't see that in every professor's office. So now I'm starting to put weird stuff in my office mm-hmm. <affirmative> to see if the students are engaging. Go to Uncle Troy's office. Uncle Troy has some pretty unique interesting things. <laugh> in his office. And a lot of these folks do because we're, we're soft shoeing. We like our stuff in our offices. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But that point of that, so thank you for that, uh, unsolicited feedback on office hours because we talked a lot about it.

Troy (47:02): Yeah. And the third thing I say is academic advising. You know, a lot of students think they can schedule the classes on their own, um, and they can and they do. But if you go into meet with your academic advisor, there's some tips and tricks and courses they might get you into that you can't on your own.

Gerry (47:17): And sometimes there's exceptions to, can I trade this for that? And our advising staff who, you know, I'm based in advising, so I work day to day, not necessarily the same things that they do, but I see them every day. And you wanna talk about, I have never met any staff faculty member who didn't care. And I like to describe Grand Valley, and I haven't spent a lot of time at other institutions. I didn't work at any other institutions. We're a caring university. I've also noticed that echoes into the business community. I've never called a business leader and said, Hey, we have a mentee that wants to do this, or we need a mentorship about that. I've been told, not now, but I've never been told no. Um, everybody's willing to help, I think because the empathy of people have been there and done that.

Gerry (47:59): Yeah, we care. Uncle Troy, the guy who's been there and done that, um, more than anybody else. Thank you. Um, on behalf of Grand Valley, on behalf of Seidman, but on behalf of me, thank you for being an advisor, a mentor to me, to all of us and, and what the Career Center does here. If you haven't heard Troy's passion for what he does, you haven't been listening, turn up the volume <laugh> on, on your dial. Um, and stay tuned because the other thing is, is there's so much innovation going on, especially here at the Career Center. So in the three years now that I've been with Grand Valley back, uh, now professionally, you guys are always retooling and, and re redoing. And I always see you at the forefront. We and mentorship are trying to keep up. Um, that's why we started podcast. That's why we're sitting in your studio, in your office, uh, to do this. But thank you so much for spending the time with us today, and thank you for what you do, uh, for me and for Grand Valley. Yeah,

Troy (48:53): Thank you. No, I enjoyed it. Hope to come back.

Gerry (48:56): Thank you for sailing along on this episode of the Seidman Mentorship Podcast. For more information on the Seidman School of Business Mentorship Program at Grand Valley State University, set your heading to www.gvsu.edu/seidman. If you have a story to tell, know someone we should interview, have questions or comments, email us at go the number two gv biz spelled b i z @gvsu.edu. Until next time, keep a weathered eye on the horizon and we wish you fair winds so long.