: Today's episode of The Aggressive Life has adult themes and adult content. Welcome to Aggressive Life. In three days, almost 3,000 men are going to come from all over America and Mexico and Canada and Ghana to the little town of Neville, Ohio. I don't know if anybody from Ghana has ever been to Neville, Ohio. We spend the weekend on 400 acres along the Ohio River for a little thing we call man camp. There's going to be campfires. There's going to be laughter, beer, powerful prayer experiences. There's going to be thousands of tents, thousands of hot dogs and brats. And we hope thousands of lives positively impacted. This is the 14th man camp. We used to do two a year, and now we're doing one a year for the last few years. And by all accounts, it's on a tear. It's been growing and expanding year over year. Over 50% of men at man camp this year have never attended. A little on-ramp might be helpful. When I say we, who is we? First, we've got Judd Watkins, AKA 512 from Here on Out, the most requested, the most interviewed guest on On the Aggressive Life, co-founder of Man Camp, owns a successive drywall business in Cincinnati, and he's gonna swear today, so prepare yourself for 512. Hey, BT, how you doing? Good. And on deck, we have Craig Dockery, who will be pronounced and referred to for the rest of our time as Windex from this point forward. He's a trailblazing leader who recently shifted his attention full time into crossroads camps and cries more than any other man you know. Not true. That's very true. Totally true. He oversees man camp and actually couples camp, woman camp, vet camp, all of them. And he's going to make sure this year's experience is unparalleled. We're going to crack open some cold ones. Do we have one to? Hold on. Stand by. Please. Oh. 512 already has his. And just for pure honesty, I can't believe it. I'm not going to have a beer. I just got done working out. And I just feel like, I don't know. Disappointment. Yeah, I've never. I've never been more disappointed in my pastor than when he doesn't open a beer. I know. That's really off-brand, isn't it, Terrence? It really is. I should probably... Describe what you're drinking. It's a berry lemonade. Tell us about this pink liquid mixture. It's just as a sparkling ice berry lemonade. Does it taste so good when it hits your lips? It doesn't taste too bad. They're actually delicious. They are amazing. I mean, I... The guy killed the cat. He started the category, right? Yeah. That was guess. He started the whole tonic water thing? Not tonic water. Well, the whole like enhanced waters and all that stuff. Oh, I didn't know that. I think he's on one of your favorite, what do they call it, like how I built this or whatever. I think he's on one of those. I thought this was just a cheaper version of the stuff that hit the market first. You're saying this is the original. My understanding is that's the original. I'm not an industry expert. We have a bunch of people from Kroger and whatnot that might know better, but as far as I know, that was the gap. And that's on how I built this? I believe so. Wait, you're saying that's on how I built this? What does that mean? You ever hear that podcast? No. Guy, whatever his name is. Oh, Guy Rolins. He just, every day, just say something. Oh, he's always like, wait. Yeah, so this, Yingling's a delicious beer. Wait, you're saying Yingling's a delicious beer? I don't care what he says. Have you listened to that guy? Yes, I've heard of him. That guy can read the alphabet, and I'm like, I'm listening, I'm in on that. I'm down. Yeah, you think he's that interesting? I don't know what it is. His voice is magnetic. Magnetic. Well, anyway, let's not talk about somebody else's podcast. Let's talk about man camp. One of the reasons for man camp even existing is noticing how unwell men are in our culture. Life expectancy for men is five years less than a woman. Men are four times more likely to commit suicide, two times more likely to be alcohol dependent, and one out of every five men says they have zero friends. We are trying to meet a big need. Let's go back to the origin story. We were all there. We were all there when man camp started. And I'm not talking about the very first camp that was in Indiana. I'm talking about when the idea was born. Who remembers that story best? Well, I think- Judd can tell a story pretty well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so it was sort of like the engine finally caught after several sparks. We kind of touched on the idea of several bike trips where we were out in the woods and stuff. But this one in particular, I remember we were in like this frozen bog down there. Was it Eastern Kentucky? I think it was Eastern Kentucky. And I mean, you hadn't fallen in the puddle. Like you went completely in the puddle the next morning. That wasn't okay. Yeah. Want to get the timeline right. So we're around the fire. We get up then we're there that night just having a blast. Good guys around the campfire having a great time. And we're like, it's freezing cold. We're all soaked. We're drinking like whatever beer we had in the in the back of the bike, which maybe was six rattled that rattled around for four hours. man, isn't this great? We gotta share this, you know? And then we're like, oh, but how can we share it? And then we're like, I mean, you can't ask everybody about a motorcycle and take a week off work multiple times a year. And you know, it's like, it was a high bar. So that was the nugget that finally caught, because that's right, you guys, Crossroads was doing a new man series, a series, right? Wolf Pack, Wolf Pack. It was all about friendship and stuff. Yeah, and this was gonna be the capstone, was your idea, it was like, hey, We need a capstone and we're like, well, this would be a great one. So that's it. And we started to figure out how to do it. Yeah, we just thought what could we do that would give men a sense of what we were experiencing as close friends, which what we had and what we have is very rare. Like I just, you know, I sent out that email or that text message last night saying, hey, I'd love to be able to camp someplace this weekend. Who's in? I just rattled off the top of my mind. What was it? Eight people on that thread? Then if I spent another 45 seconds, I could have had at least another eight people on it. We're just very rich when it comes to friendships. Absolutely. And most dudes are not. And so we thought, what can we do that might foster some friendships and have some of the elements that we're experiencing adventure on the side. It wasn't just friendship. It's the challenge. Like we're out there doing hard things, like dropping these 500 pound motorcycles all the time. And you. And not just to be out there doing hard things, but to lose it. Like you're at your worst, and you see these guys, and they see you at your worst, and then you pick each other up, and it's amazing. Like that's just super rare. Whatever that mask is you wear every day at work, you're like, I'm the cool guy, or I'm the guy that knows this, or I'm the per... Like you can't hold that up and pick up a 500-pound meter, so I go 100 times. Like it's just too much. That's a really good point. We can all create an image that makes ourselves look good and competent and professional. But that... breaks away when you're a few days out in the wild. Because you just get tired, you get dirty, you get frustrated, and people see your issues and see you at your worst. And maybe that's why great friendships are made, because we can say, oh, now I know who you are. Well, I got the most real moment for me around that was our first bike trip. Because remember, I went on the bike trip, you, Jake, Art, and Mike, and didn't know any of you. Like, I think I'd met Mike once at something, had never met you guys at all. randomly because you're cheap, invited me on this bike trip. You're like, hey, one more guy. I wasn't cheap. I had no money. That's a difference at that point. Okay. I have Jack now. All right. But you're still pretty cheap. So anyway, anyway. So you invite me on the trip. Somehow I go. We do this incredible thing. 10 days in Wyoming. I'm wrecking a billion times. You're like, who is this guy? And I'll never forget we're at the end of the trip loading bikes on the trailer to go back, changing into our airport clothes or whatever. And you're like, hey man, I hope this isn't just past your guilt or something. You're like, hope it didn't let you down on this trip. And like it was the most genuine care, like you meant that. And first of all, from one guy to say that to another guy was a new thing for me. I'm like, oh wow, this is some real stuff, this guy. You know, and I told you then, and it holds true now, like you are who I thought you were, and I knew from that experience and the stress of it that you couldn't have faked it. There's no way, like the persona that I knew as the guy on stage at Crossroads, And the guy I thought that guy was, was the guy I met in the woods on those 10 days. And that was an incredible thing for me personally. And I think that's why we've ended up becoming friends since then, is I'm like, man, I can trust this guy. Yeah, I remember that. We had seven days of drinking and laughter and dirty jokes and all that, where the walls come down. They're just down, right? And then we're going home, we're going, oh, that's right. I almost forgot here. I am one of those things called a pastor, and this is this guy's first time spending time with me. I think the church just shrunk by one person. No, it just grew. I mean, I gotta say, like, yeah, I've had a lot of experiences, and had up to that point a lot of experiences with drinking and dirty jokes and laughs and whatever else. But there's something about, which I think we've captured at Man Camp and the way we set it up, there's something about being in a group of guys that are... at least centered and grounded in faith. I don't mean, it's not like we have ever at, even on that trip or even around any of the main camp fires, we're not sitting around proselytizing to each other and reading this Psalm one, nobody's doing that. You can, some people do at the right time, but it's sort of been just an understood undercurrent to our relationships. And I think that's a huge part of it is that both of those things can coexist. And that's the authenticity of the experience at main camp is kind of distilled from that. Yeah, I think we got great memories from us. You remember all the adventures we've been at the tops of mountains and seen all these views. We've also all been super pissed at each other on trips. Like, I mean, I remember one time I was pissed at you, Judd, because you were like, come on, it's time to get up. I was like, it's not even, the sun's not even out. Because we're, oh, by the way, we're on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. You're like, I want you to see this. And I was like, you can't, come on, get out of here. And whatever. And then I was like, I'm sorry. And then I remember one time, you remember when you cried. Yeah. You remember when Judd's bike water locked in Virginia and you and Art went off to go like find somebody to pit to get the pickup truck and then you know screw ups bigot screw ups you know and then we come back and we'd already moved the truck and then the guy who went like we got off the trail because they're like it's private property and if the guy sees you he's gonna be all pissed and you came back and you're like what were you guys doing? What were you... do you remember that? I do, because we couldn't find you. We drove past you. I know where the... You were going 60 miles an hour and a guy came by and he was like... I was not. I was in a truck. A guy in his truck. I brought him a rescue and he couldn't rescue me. For lying in a truck. And that guy... We're waving in the sun. Somebody came through and was like, if anybody sees you, you're going to get in so much trouble. And so we're like, we see cars coming. So we hide from them. That's right. Anyway, but that is... that's also friendship, right? Like we got these mountaintop experiences and we got the down in the valleys. That's what true friendship is, you know, and you get to experience that. I've seen that happen at man camp and it's freaking amazing. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, the first one, going back to the first one was kind of an interesting thing. One of the things I wanted to ask was, what's one of your favorite man camp stories? We've done 14 of them now, where this will be 14th. What's one of your favorite stories? I think it starts just the very first one. We had, we found some guy who had property, had a barn, and we said, hey, yeah, if we brought 500 people, How many people could your property take? He said probably 500. I said, great, 500. Actually, no. He said, I think you could probably give 200. I said, we're bringing 500. He was like, all right. All right. And that thing was sold out in 90 seconds when the website went live. 90 seconds. And it ended up being, what was it that night? We only did, it was only one night. It was one night. It was 15 degrees. 15 degrees. With eight inches of snow on the ground. And it snowed overnight. Right. Exactly it did. One of my favorite stories is that very one where I was going around, I could see all the camps, the campfires and people were talking and everything. And I went to this one, this guy. You don't know if someone has millions or if someone has minimum wage and works at McDonald's. That's the cool thing about your camp. It kind of breaks it down. Unless you really know gear and you know that somebody knows gear and they have the money to buy gear, unless that's the case, Everyone just becomes equal real fast. Well, there was this one guy, I know he wasn't a millionaire. He came and he had those onesie mechanic suits on. You know what I mean? You step into it and you zip up. And his tent was, he also brought one of those old Chase lounges that your grandparents would have, you know, with the nylon webbing. Yeah, outdoor things. Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, they had a nylon fold-up thing. and he had those insulated mechanics bibs, and he had a tarp. Oh, he's dead. He just lied in his thing and pulled a tarp over him. Was he the guy that wore sandals? I don't remember. If not that guy, another guy there on that camp literally had exposed toes. I think he was wearing sweatpants too, the guy with the sandals. I'm like, you have hypertension, bro. You're gonna die. Your blood pressure is not good. This is the end of it. You're not an Eskimo, man. Like, what are you... Yeah. Geez. Crazy. So that was one of my favorite ones. Yeah. One of my recent memories is the last man camp. We had this thing. You know, we're always trying to do something special, you know, do something that's a little unexpected. So we had this Santa. Like you had gotten this Santa prop that was just like the one of those little light up plastic Santas You would put in the front yard And we're like we should put a bunch of fireworks in this guy and blow him up right so we blew him up But then it was Saturday night and guys were having like really serious conversations around the campfire like okay Well, we still want to throw a flamethrower on this Santa, but we should cut out the you know get the fireworks out I mean we had a flamethrower and we had a Santa loaded with... It only makes sense. It's only gonna go one direction. It only makes sense. So I started, I was like, let's cut the opening in the back of Santa's butt that we had carved open, you know, let's make it a little bit bigger. So I had this brand new Leatherman that I'm cutting and I'm hacking at it and it's like a really thick plastic and I end up... And I slice my index finger from like right down the middle all the way down to the side. It's like a four inch long cut and I, and I was like, ooh, that's deep. And I look inside the cut and I can see my tendon inside. And it's like midnight on Saturday. And Judd is like, you need to go to the medic. And I'm like, yeah. Yes, I absolutely do. Let's also say that if I'm telling you to go to a medic, you need to go to a... It's aggressively bad. So I will, I gotta say, it's the, and this whole thing is alleged, because I don't know if this is all strictly legal from like, you know, medical or whatever. This is an alleged story. I heard this is what happened next. But allegedly what happened is I went over to the medic tent and they had to wake up an emergency, an old ER doc, who woke up and stitched me up in the back of his Toyota Highlander and gave me eight stitches in the middle of the night. And I was back to it. An old ER doc from the Great War. From the Great War. Patch me up in a field in Northern Europe. Greatest generation, man. It was so good. I mean, eight stitches and eight beers will make it, everything's just fun. And then we blew up the Santa. And then we still left the fireworks in the Santa and flamethrowed them and exploded everyone and woke everybody up. It was amazing. That was pretty good. That was fine. How about you, Judd? Gosh, you know, it's, gosh, there's too many. I mean, I'll never, okay, first, The right answer is baptisms. Those are amazing. That is the right answer. Cause it's like every time I've got a story with me and Duver, we're standing there watching baptisms that one of the ones down there that we did on that land in Northern Kentucky, you were baptizing some guy and you're like, Johnny, who's your Lord and savior? Why are you doing this or whatever? And he said something and me and Duver, you know. 50 yards away on the edge of the thing and you know back because there's a huge crowd and whatever and the guy said something And we're all why everybody's just focused on this thing and he says something, you know, and I go mmm Doers it what he said? But he did mean it, you know, well who could forget though the first dick tough that's exactly what I was gonna Tell my dick tough. Oh my gosh. Okay, so we're you know, we're doing games as part of the thing First one ever, we're in this barn, David Valentine, who's got the MC voice of all MC voices, is just raring everybody up. We've worked our way up from, I don't know how many, there's 50 units, so 50 guys, 50 teams of arm wrestlers or groups of whatever work their way up to these final two guys. And the testosterone and energy level is about to blow the roof off of this bar. I mean, it is electric in there, right? And these two guys sit down across from each other. Valentine's just doing his thing, the whole thing, and there's all these guys, the music cake is playing. I mean, it was actually, it's Eminem, that's always the last song. And then it's Mastodon. Mastodon at the end. That's the close out. Yeah. Anyway, so arm wrestling, grunting and all this stuff, and all of a sudden, one of the guys just drops, his arm just drops. This massive contest, they're struggling, then he just drops his arm, casually. He stands up, he reaches with his other arm. across to shake the hand of the guy that he was arm wrestling with. He shakes the hand of the guy, walks out. You guys knew where the medics are? He goes to the medics. He had torn his bicep loose from his arm. Yeah. Did not say a word, did not leave camp, had a great late. They just like taped him up and he stayed there all night. 15 degrees. And then you got dick tough. It was a fun for dick tough. Amazing. Awesome. Gosh. Today's episode is brought to you by AG1. 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So let's, for those people who are becoming the first time, let's give a little help and counsel for first timers. We don't want to reveal a lot of secrets because as we know, what happens at man camp stays at man camp, but we do want to tell people enough to help them get the most out of their experience. What tips do we have for folks? Yeah, I think the main thing I'd say is, if you come into this and you're unsure or you're a little, I don't know, you're lacking confidence, then know that that's how most guys walk into this. Most guys are insecure and they don't wanna show it. And the best way to get the most out of man camp is just to be yourself and share your dirty laundry around that campfire, because the campfire is where it starts. And if you have a good trip captain, he's gonna do the same thing, he's gonna model it for you. But every guy, like you said, you don't know whether you're a millionaire or you're just barely scraping by, but around that campfire, you're all the same. You're all guys who are struggling through life, trying to figure out. what's next and who you are and if you're good enough and all that. And so just, just be honest. And it's amazing what happens when you can do that. Yeah. Be, be honest and understand that I feel like that. I feel, I, I'm part of putting it together. I've been doing it for years and I come into camp feeling like that. And I think, I think that's one of the biggest tools the enemy uses to like, keep us lonely and apart is like, man, those guys aren't, if they know who you really are, they're not going to like you. If you're real about that, whatever else. But my biggest piece of advice, whenever I'm talking to anybody. that's coming for the first time is without a doubt, it turns out most things are like this in life, but especially something like this, the more you lean into it, the more you get out of it. And if you leave, I always say, if you leave man camp and it wasn't good, that's on you. Because you can absolutely sit on the sidelines and like just let it go and be cynical or skeptical or scared to sit, whatever. But if you can jump in, man, it's a big deal. Yeah. Yeah, I would say. recognize that no one's thinking about you. We think that, oh, I don't have the right gear, or I'm not going to be saying the right thing. I'm not going to, no one cares. No one thinks about you. No one's, I'll think about you. Cause when you walk in, I stay at Hickler's corner. I look for things to make fun of people on. So that's one of my languages. My only love language is verbal abuse. So I'll try to notice on the way in, but no one, everyone's doing their own thing. Everyone's living their own life. You don't need to feel like you're being judged because you're not cool in this way, or you got this that isn't together. Guys are just happy to be off the grid and away from their normal lives. And that's a big deal. You are off. Do yourself a favor. Leave your phone in the car. Just don't bring it. You bring it, you have more temptations, and your lady is gonna be more tempted to try to reach you. And if she tries to reach you, you're gonna be more tempted to answer it and then get sucked into everything. So just leave it in the car. Yeah, and I just also say, like, we're excited for you to be there. I'm excited for every single guy that comes here. And so is all of the leadership, all the HQ guys, all the prayer guys, everyone coming out. Like, you get a welcome coming in there. And where else do you get that? And that is the tone to set for the entire day. What's it feel like to be middle-aged, by the way? Is that sunk in? Middle-aged? Yeah. I mean, is that... I'm kind of embracing it. You are? I've just been listening to more like Joe Rogan and doing more like low-cardio efforts, you know? And just kind of medium weight. I love it, you know, it's not too bad. It's not an identity thing for you, not being the young, young creative guy anymore? Oh, for me, no, I mean, I'm finally, yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with being a dad, and I've been in dad mode for 11 years now, because I got three kids, and 11's my oldest one, and I find myself in more dad mode in like every area of life, and so I just embrace it, and just see there's a whole new gear to hit, you know, which is great. Cool. I feel like I should have something very interesting to say right here. I think that's what this episode is brought to you by dirt. A G one. Right. Yes. I'll chime in on something I thought while you were talking about, you know, you're giving him grief. It's like, you know, you said you're excited for every guy, every guy that comes totally agree with that. And it's to something you said about doesn't matter if you're a millionaire, you make minimum wage. All of that is true around a campfire. Like you. And there has been incredible. I think we've lost as a society, as our society has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger and more and more complex and then in the last, let's say 20 years, started to become more and more individualistic. You have everything, everything you watch, every feed you have is designed for you and what you like and whatever else. So it's become even easier to, well, our society does not put enough emphasis and value on wisdom and experience. Cause like you don't see the journeyman and apprentice relationship very often in our world today. That's not a thing. And guess what? It should be. Cause I mean, as I've learned, you know, what I watched you do with Jake as he was growing up on these bike trips, surrounded by a bunch of incredible older guys, guys older than him, certainly. He was 19, I think, or whatever, 18 on the first one, yeah. 17. 17 or whatever, cause when he turned 18. Oh, okay, no, 17 is for, you were on the 17 one. It was 18. 18, yeah. So either way. I've watched that happen to him and I've seen the impact it's had on his life and that's the great thing. You know, at camp, you can come sit around a fire and that guy across from you might be 30 years older than you. And he might know something you've never even thought about, you know? And that kind of stuff just, it just naturally flows. And it's one of the few experiences in my life that I get to see that. And I think that's a rare thing for most people. So I think, yeah. We've got guys from 18 all the way to like 85 was the oldest guy at the last one. It's crazy. Still hiked his stuff in. 85? Who did that last time? Like a badass. He's just all gristle. Wait, we did that stupid dirt race. Adelman, no who? Adcock got us into an Indiana. 100 mile ultra marathon in the woods. Relay. Well, but they had guys doing the ultra marathon. Like straight up running. On dirt. The whole way. One of the first guys to finish. 75. You talk about gristle and bone, man. I was like, I don't know what you're made of, dude, but good for you. Yeah. So, man. Yeah. All right. So by camping tips for camping, a lot of guys have not camped. Hopefully they're hooked up with their trip captain who's helping people get gear. What stuff do we have to help some insecure campers with? Layers. Wear layers. Don't wear cotton. And jeans are cotton, guys. Jeans are cotton. Denim is cotton. I know you got a pair of jeans, you like them. They're durable. Maybe they smell like poop, like Craig's. But either way, I mean, if it rains, which it probably does, jeans stay wet for a year. Like if you get wet on Friday, they will be wet six months from now if you don't put them in the dryer. It's amazing. So I would stay away from denim or cotton. And layer up because weather in Ohio in October. is all over the place and where the land that we have, it gets windy and- It's eight-fold. Yeah, wear like three or four or five layers and then you can always take them off if it gets hot. That's the way to do it. Right, I'll be the voice of dissent. I wear denim all the time out there. A lot of guys don't have anything other than denim. Most guys listen and they're going, what else would there be to wear? What do you got? They're wearing my dress pants? You wear denim at every man camp and it's fine? Yeah. It's fine. Huh. You're also kind of a savage. I'm gonna just tell you. I'm a man Yeah, no problem. No big deal and then no, that's all you got great Yeah, like don't absolutely don't let that be a hurdle But if you got a choice get some get so what is your go-to camping advice? wear denim besides where denim, denim shirtless. If you got a denim shirt, you could wear that. Otherwise, bring as many tobacco products as you can. That'd be one. My, no, my go-to, I just think for new people, new campers, the best hack for camping is earplugs when you go to sleep. Cause you're not used to being outside. All kinds of sounds you haven't heard before. Just put those things in and let the white noise come and give yourself a night's sleep. That's my big deal. Because the dudes are snoring and they snore loud. Well, and you're outside, you're hearing things wrestle, which you never are, which is stimulating. I've never seen this, I've been outside before. So it's taking you just an extra half hour just to hear all the cool sounds you don't hear before. And if you've had all that tobacco, you're like, I can't go to bed, I'm wired. Right, and then that's the cheap hack. And then... I would say if you don't have any gear and you're going to buy gear and this could be very expensive. No, wait a minute, when does this airs? Two days before man camp? Three days? Okay, I don't even, it doesn't matter because you won't have time. Don't worry about it. No, come on, you guys gotta tell them what they want. They could order it at Amazon very quick. Because we just told you that a guy did the first man camp in eight inches of snow and 15 degree weather with some coveralls and a tarp. So if he can do it, you guys will be fine. You show him. Right, correct. You don't need anything. I think that, oh, that was the thing I was going to talk about, the denim. It's 48 hours or less than 48 hours. It's OK to be a little uncomfortable. And you're not going to be uncomfortable for too long. You're going to get warm around a fire. There's a tent. that's up where we meet. It's okay to wrap your mind around being a little uncomfortable for little periods of time. It's gonna be fine. If all I get's cotton, just bring a lot of cotton. Swap it out. Yep. Okay, so other than cotton, other than earplugs, for you, what is the most important piece of camping gear? A good chair. Cause you sit around. I don't know, on bike trips we would say it's a third, a third, a third. You're on a bike a third of the day, you're sleeping a third of the day, and you're in that chair a third of the day. For breakfast we lead and then at night. So with camp, and maybe you still have good campfire time, you got solitude when you're in a chair, have a comfy chair. Agree. Yeah, that's probably, I think that's the right one. The only other thing I could possibly say is whatever your sleep system is, whether it's a cot, a pad, an air mattress from, doesn't matter. Like just... Sleeping on the hard ground is tough. So like, sort of like your earplugs, like sure, can you do it? Yeah. Are you going to get the best night's sleep? No, but you're not going to get the best night's sleep anyway. So how bad can it be? So maybe a chair is the number one thing. You're telling people shouldn't have a cot or a pad? No, they should. I'm saying that's a good, I would say other than a chair, one of the most important things to me is what I'm sleeping on. I want to make sure I have something solid to sleep on. All right, I'll just say what I was going to say before. Right, that's the thing for me. If you're going to do a bag, I've not found anything better than the Big Agnes system. It's a Big Agnes bag, and it's a pad that fits in a sleeve in the bottom of the bag so you can't roll off the pad, and the pad doesn't scoot out from underneath your sleeping bag. For me, That was a complete change gamer. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure you can buy it on Amazon, like it's two day shipping. I don't know if you can. You might have to go to REI or stuff like that. I don't know if Amazon has that kind of, I guess they do, they are the everything store. Which by the way. I'm thinking about boycotting Amazon, which I don't know how it would do, because it would cramp my life. They're just freaking raking over other businesses. Them owning the supply chain just bothers me. Works out for me though. I'm a big fan. I know you, I know. I know. I know it is. The President's Club. I am too. I spend a lot of stuff on it, but I just think that this is totally on man camp related. I just, at some point the government's going to have to bust them up because they're just... abusing other retailers and suppliers. It's not good. So what would you do if you boycott Amazon? What would you do instead? Just buy from Walmart.com. Seriously, anybody. eBay, buy from a company's direct thing. I'm sorry, I don't need more errands. I like less errands. More errands? Yeah, I don't have to go, somebody's like, hey, you can just stop over at REI or Walmart. No, Walmart's got their online stuff. I'm talking about online stuff. Oh, shipping? Yeah, Walmart's got a really great one. I can get behind that. Yeah. I don't wanna go with the biggest, I wanna go with the second biggest. I mean, Amazon's still huge. Or I mean Walmart. Yeah, but yeah, I don't know. I'm listening to more and more of it. It just bothers me. It does. All right, so let's talk about lightning round. You guys ready for a lightning round? Let's do it quickly. Quickly? Why, you wanna be done here? Are you bored with us? No, lightning needs to be quick. Are we gonna do a slow lightning round? It's not the sand hourglass round. Tell me the last time you cried. Last time I cried? I don't know. Come on, it's been at least a week. It's gonna be when he leaves here. I'm crying right now. I don't know, I haven't cried. I will say this, you know, like, here's a question. Can I ask a question? What are you guys personally thinking about with this man camp for you? Because I was thinking about that just today, with like, this man camp, we're planning it, we're doing all these great things, we want to make sure that we set people up right, but I'm also like... I just feel like I haven't been, I don't know, super, I haven't been feeling a lot, you know? Like feeling connected to God in like the emotional way or anything like that. A lot of times I feel that at man camp. Occasionally I don't, but like I can't tell you the last time I cried, which means it's been at least three days, you know? So I'm thinking about that as far as like this one. Like I want to be filled up. I want to feel something new. the way I hope for all these guys to feel. So I'm interested, what are you guys thinking about for this main camp? For you. I don't, I'm ashamed to say, I don't think too much about it for me. I get something out from them. I don't think too much about it for me. I think about, I've gotta deliver a couple talks that don't suck too bad. I got a new one I've never given before. I'm kinda looking forward to doing that. Pretty far up about that. And I think about, you know, men's health and fitness is coming. It's gonna be pretty interesting. The magazine, yeah, Men's Health and Fitness magazine. They're gonna do some big piece, and so they've been doing interviews ahead of time. The guys are gonna come through, and I'm like, well, that's an interesting thing. So I'm thinking about that. I wonder how that'll go, you know? So I'm... I'm not ashamed to say someone has to think about the big pictures. I go into a thing about the big picture. I don't think about me. And I will get something out of it every time I do. Right. Yeah. Well, I think, I think for me, I'm typically in that same mode that executional let's, you know, pay attention to what's happening and make sure we have the right things happen at the right time and do all that stuff. And so I always tell guys I've like, I've been to every main camp, but I've never been to a main camp because I'm there and I'm doing the thing, but I've never like, you know, just unplugged and been a part of a unit and just done the whole thing. In the last couple of main camps, we've really pushed the guys. that are sort of the HQ utility player guys who are there to get water, do all the different little jobs that have to get done to make the thing happen. Hey guys, don't hide in the work. Make sure you do the experience as well. So I'm going to try and do that. And I think with me this year, I've traveled more this year than I've ever traveled in my life. It's been a lot of fun, a lot of great things. I've experienced some great stuff. And it has nuked all of my rhythms. My diet, exercise, faith. everything has just been turned upside down because that's why they're called rhythms, right? So I'm hoping I can get that. One of the things I'm really looking for out of Mayacamp this year is because it is a great annual rhythm for me to do every year and have that experience that's like—because it is a profound experience. Every guy I've ever talked to that's gone into it and full force done it has been like, holy shit, that was amazing. So that's what I'm looking for. that, I don't know, grounding. Yeah. That's a really good point, man. I think that it does do a reset for me because it is an annual rhythm I've been doing for, I mean, how many years? Eight years. That's a really good point. I like that a lot. I do feel that way. I feel like it kicks off my fall. I feel like it's a good reset and I look forward to it. That's really a good word. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it calibrates me for the whole all the holidays time around family that can a lot of times You know you're going from here to there and whatever else and could feel like a lot of burdens But when you've when you've gone through an experience like that hopefully has touched you in some way you're like man I get to go hang out with my like I get to experience these things Especially you hear some people that you know, there's a lot of rough stuff going on in people's lives So you hear that stuff and it's yeah, and it's way better for me than like New Year's resolution I sat in my house by myself and wrote four things. I want to do better. No like let's talk about it around the campfire. And, you know, as part of the process, we do our whole little throw away the fireman kind of thing. Stop, you're telling everybody everything. Stop at 512. It's a surprise. Redacted, belay my last. When I think back to that seminal trip where man camp, the idea was born, I'm thinking around that campsite. I think all those guys have been there every year. Who was it? It was us, Piss and Boots, Petey. You're pissing boots. He's pissing boots. Oh, I'm pissing boots. Okay. How many times? How many times? Yeah, in case you don't know. All right. That's one of the hacks you got to learn. Don't be a new bread. The reason I do too frequently that I can imagine is because I don't want to get out of the tent to take a wisdom mill night. You know, you're drinking all night or all day and you don't want to get out of the tent and unzip it. Unzip, roll over on your side, and pee out of the side of the tent. The problem is when you put the shoes in the wrong place. Do not put your shoes outside the tent around where your waist is. I don't know how a pro tip is don't put your shoes in the toilet. How is that a pro tip? I thought the pro tip was going to be take a whole separate Nalgene or a separate bag that you pee piss in. Well that's what I do now. Except... When it gets a kink in it, it overflows. Then it kind of... Because you're a savage. It's happened to you too. It's happened to you. No, it hasn't. Yes, it has. No, no. Yes, it has. You said it, oh, that was me in. That was me in. No, yeah, it wasn't me. No, no, no. Cause I'm delicate, Brian. I'm delicate. Oh, man. That's not true, but it has. Luckily, maybe cause I just buy a new one every time. Anyway, this is not... You don't buy a new one every year? Every caping trip. I call him 512 because he has a $512 allowance every day. It used to be $512 a week personal spending allowance. It's now $512 a day. You buy one every time. Thank you, Amazon. And you throw away the old one? What? You throw away the old one? Probably. No, I just got a big stack of this bottle in the back of my house. By the way, that is not where 512 came from. You have evolved. That's a new thing you've added on. That was not the etymology of 512. But I did meet somebody. I did meet your office manager the other day. Yeah, Rachel. Did she call you 512? She texted me and said, apparently I've got to call you 512. I said it was nice having you work here. Yeah. It's been a good road. She's amazing. She called me 512. I named everybody, everybody on that original trip. Petey, Sozimmer, Ryan Young. Art. Art, well, I don't think all of them have been to every one, but they're all still involved. Art has definitely not been to every one. I think Log has done pretty good. My question for you guys, we've all three been to all of them. I missed two. You did, for what? The second one, we did the second one that was all from the waiting list of the first one. and I already had a trip with Cindy planned. Yeah, we did it like a month after. And then the other one was, it was like right after we filmed in Rome and then Cindy came out and stayed and I went to that night, so I missed that one. So I've missed two. Oh, okay. I'm curious for you guys, does it get old for you? Do you find yourself having to psych yourself up to go? Is it becoming duty for you? Is it a chore? Is it a discipline? Or do you find yourself... Looking forward to it like you did the very first one. I mean, we were in Lexington, was that two or three ago, we did the one down in Lexington area. Where God died. Yeah, where the guy literally died and then came back to life, which was pretty amazing. But at the end of that one, it was freezing cold, it was great, whatever, it was a man camp. Bean came up to me. that was we were kind of debriefing at the end and he said it beans long time crossroads guy been involved not being eyes going bean because he looks like that guy yeah so I'm just like that's what is to me you can have beam I mean it's amazing anyway long time like started crossroads God's been involved forever, so he's done the work. He knows what it feels like to do the work, and even though it's meaningful and whatever else. So he said that to me. He asked me, he said, hey, thanks for staying on top of this and still doing it, even though it probably certainly has turned to a job now or whatever. I hadn't even thought of that. I gotta tell you, I put more work, and have put, did put, will put more work into this thing than I do in most anything else in my life. I get not a dime for it, don't want a dime for it. Don't expect anything out of it because when I look around, when I see those guys getting in that water to get baptized, or I see guys who walking out with this look on their face and like, thank you for that. There is nothing, look, I don't have kids. I don't have children. I think the most important thing any of us can ever do as men on earth is to raise good children. This is from a guy that chose not to have children. I believe that, that's the most important thing. And when we're talking about children, we're talking about legacy. And when I look at man camp, I don't care if no one else knows my name. Nobody remembers 512 if the families that are impacted by the guys going back generations from now are different. That's it. I mean how can you get tired of that? So, yeah. Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. I don't get at all tired of it. I don't even think about it. I mean it feels like freedom out there and it always feels like there's just this new place for us to create in. You know? So even just creating the experience, I'm always like there's just – it's just whatever God wants and whatever crazy ideas we can come up with. And then for all the work that we do, then it just like, it goes nuts so far beyond our expectations, beyond my expectations every single time. It's something I absolutely look forward to every time. I'm just like, I hope I'm up to it. You know what I mean? Because I know that like, it's just going to be, it's going to be an amazing experience. Do you feel more pressure every band camp to produce, perform, to meet expectations, to outdo or? Equate what happened last time I feel that to some degree with music because I'm like man every time we do it because I play in the band and Every time it just feels like this just is an amazing thing and so much of it is the guys respond I mean, it's the fact that you see 1,500 or 2,000 or 2,000 plus guys worshiping, you know, that's just an incredibly powerful thing and I'm like man I hope I don't screw it up to get him to that place, you know So there's excitement to like what are the ideas we can do to push them that way? But I'm always just like I don't want to screw it up, you know Yeah, I don't feel that because I'm sitting a really unique position, especially just as opposed to you two. I'm not in professional ministry. This isn't my job. It's not about me. The whole thing hasn't like, I'm just, I'm a project manager facilitating the experience. And again, to Craig's point, God shows up every time and shows us how small our dreams and ambitions are. And I'm like, well, I'm pretty sure if that keeps happening, then it's going to keep getting better or be be whatever it is for whatever guy goes. And I think something we might have missed because we're talking about ourselves and whether or not it pressure or job or whatever. Like, it's also just a hell of a lot of fun. Yeah. I mean, just as a person at the thing, it's just fun. Yes. So, I mean. It's a super fun weekend. Right. Just for me personally, let alone all the other stuff that we get to help make. Right. And I would just say that overall, any of the stress or anything like that, I just still feel completely honored and blessed and lucky to just be a part of it. You know, this is something that I've never gotten to experience in my whole life. And to just be a part of the team that's like making this for guys is like, ah, what a gift, you know? What's your favorite moment at each man camp? Is there a time during the weekend we look forward to? Cause you, oh, that's, that's my favorite thing. I bet you it's the same for all of us. Okay. I'm curious. It is Saturday afternoon after the afternoon session when guys are done working. and we're all singing and guys are into it and they're focused on it and you've given a great talk and guys are pumped up and then we go into game time. And we're just sitting up there and guys are starting to go to the mash tent, guys are running around with blindfolds and holding an egg and trying to run across a lake. Slicing potatoes into leaves. And just to sit and watch, everybody's in it. Everybody's just like, this is where we are, this is what we do now. And that's my favorite part. It's interesting, you're exactly right. That's exactly right. It's like. about the golden hour and it's just like, okay, we can melt and you just look around, people are having fun. There's so many different visually stimulating things to see, I love that. And like guys that need prayer or in a serious thing are in the match. Guys that are just, they've got lunatics arm wrestling over here, like you said, running. Throwing concrete balls over their shoulders. I mean, it's just- Big Atlas stones. The most fun, it's like unbridled. fun and you always have a great thing you always hit in some of your messages on fun where like, yeah, if you're a dad, you want to see your kids having fun. That makes you happy. You enjoy that. And you're like, how do you think God feels about watching 3000 of his kids together? Nobody, you can edit this in, nobody's dick measuring. You know what I mean? Nobody's like, look, I got better gear than you or I know more verses than you or I'm stronger than you with this ball. Like I've watched guys lift those concrete balls over there. I'm like, that's. That's a hernia waiting to happen. And the next dude who's twice as big as the first dude is watching it and he can't get it up and he tells the other guy, man, that was an incredible good job. There's none of that, all the stuff we deal with on a daily basis. What kind of car do you drive? Where do you live? What's your job? All that stuff is just gone. And people, and there's 3000 guys having fun. That's a blast. Right, yeah. Well, hey, I don't think we've got anything else we need to cover. Anything else you guys want to cover or talk about? One of the other favorite things about this whole deal is the fact that we have the beer trailer next to the prayer tent And that is I think that's a pretty magical special thing because that symbolizes two things for me that symbolizes We want you to be your regular self if you're gonna have a beer on a weekend Have one here and also we believe in the transcendent power of prayer and those two things together Like that's just that's one of the things I love seeing that's another moment that I love seeing is how the line for the beer Is long at the beginning of the weekend and then the line for the prayer tent right next to it is long at the end of it Which is, it's so great, it's so great. How many kegs are we buying this year for Man Can? 80 something? Yeah, it's usually about 80. I thought that's what we did last year with the smaller. So you wanna have more than you need, because you can always return them if you haven't opened them. So we usually, that's what that trailer that we get will hold, and we've never surpassed that. So yeah, we'll see what happens. I mean, if we have to make a beer run, which we've had to do at man camps in the past when we didn't get 80, we'll go on a beer run. Hey, it's been good, man. Thanks so much for working hard, coming in here, giving your time. I'm just so thankful to have you guys as friends and to be laboring in this thing. It's good. It's right around the corner. Man campers. Hey, let's go. Let's go. It's almost there. If you haven't signed up for man camp. Sorry, can't sign up. Sucks to be you. There's always next year. Hopefully that's enough time for you. We've done everything possible to reach you via social media or Aggressive Life, whatever it is. And sorry, it just didn't work out this year, but next year it's going to be great because this year's going to be great. Because every single year has been great. So that's all we're going to do. We'll see you next time on The Aggressive Life. Thanks for joining us on this journey toward aggressive living. Find more resources, articles, past episodes, and live events over at bryantome.com. My new books, a repackaged edition of The Five Marks of a Man and a brand new Five Marks of a Man Tactical Guide are open right now on Amazon. If you haven't yet, leave this podcast a rating and review. It really helps get the show in front of new listeners. And if you want to connect, find me on Instagram, at Brian Tome. The Aggressive Life is a production of Crossroads Church, Cincinnati, Ohio.