Episode transcript Kelsey Hello, ladies. How we doing? Alison We're doing OK. Wendy We're good. Thank you for joining us. Kelsey Thanks for having me. Wendy How are you today all good? Kelsey Yeah, I'm alright. Bit tired. I tracked the alps last week, for a whole week Alison You did. We're going to ask you about that. How was it? Kelsey Yeah. Like, I'm knackered. It's just so tiring. Wendy How’s your bum feeling? Kelsey No, it's not my bum, it’s my legs, my legs are my. It's my knees cause it's they're going downhill. It just hammers your knees. Alison I've heard that's worse. I've heard that's it's worse going down the hill than it is going up. Kelsey Yeah, because I was like ohh the going down's going to be a breeze and then you're just like, boom, boom. It's just like your knees are shattered. Like, literally when I sit down it’s like, uhhhh. Alison So this was the Coppa Feel trek, wasn't it? With which Coppa Feel and I think Giovanna Fletcher, she kind of spearheads it every time, doesn't she? And you had Team Kelsey, didn't you this time? Kelsey Yes, team Kelsey and they did lots of dancing and prancing around and I went I did l ast year. I went to the Sahara and then we did Mount Blanc this year. And but it's just the most inspiring, inspiring trek the the people that you do it with are absolutely incredible. Like the whole thing is just amazing. Wendy Which was worse? The Sahara or Mont Blanc? Kelsey I don't know some of the girls might be listening, right? They’ll go, Oh, but she didn't think my one was hard. The Sahara was mentally mentally challenging. You know, there was nothing in the desert. We lost signal for days. With the Alps, you know, we were near shops and we could pop out for a little beer if we wanted. You know what I mean? I mean, it's a bit more like civilisation, whereas in the out in the Sahara, we were on our own and we moved to camp every day as well. In this harbour we moved camp so you'd like every day you'd pack away and then camp would move and you'd walk to camp. Wendy But it didn't happen like that in Mont Blanc. Kelsey No, we had a base camp, so it was quite nice cause you was going back to the same place every day. 00:05:18 Wendy I think I'd find that harder going back, I'd want to keep going. 00:05:23 Wendy So let's talk about all the things that have happened, Kelsey in 2020, when your husband Tom was diagnosed with the brain tumour. I'm assuming that everything turned upside down. You were heavily pregnant with Bodhi weren’t you? It must have just been the most devastating time. Kelsey Yeah, it was. Do you know what? It's not even devastating at the time, because you're just literally in shock. Like you can't believe this has happened to you and your family. And it's funny because even when I was just away in the Alps, one of the girls was showing me Tom's Instagram. And during, like, this was COVID time as well, like during COVID. He was doing brashen adventures like but he was on top form, so for me it just came as like a massive shock to our whole family. It was like ohh this is happening to us. And this is our life now. So, yeah, I was really heavily pregnant with Bodhi as well. He was. I was 35 weeks pregnant at the time. Wendy So everything's a bit bonkers anyway when you're 35 weeks pregnant without having this huge emotional trauma thrown on your doorstep and. Kelsey A 14 month old baby as well Wendy Oh, Kelsey Kelsey I know Alison Yeah, that that does sound like an awful lot, but let's go back a few years. Kelsey, tell us about what made you fall in love with Tom because you were both quite young when you met weren't you? Kelsey Yeah. So I met Tom when I was 19, and we were just in a nightclub, and I don't know, just it was just like love at first sight. I honestly just, yeah, just love Tom fell in love with him. We were like best friends, soul mates you know, it's just all that, you know when people say it, but it was just so true between us, like my friends have always said, like you and Tom are just soul mates. You're like, the boys in the band used to say we’re the boy and girl version of each other. But you know, they were just connection like no other. Um and I feel like we we grew up a lot together, you know, that's my like late like late late teens, early 20s and and we Found Love and yeah. Wendy And fame, one of you. What was it like? Kind of watching him go on to achieve what they did with The Wanted? Kelsey Well, now, looking back, obviously I can't believe the life that he actually lived. But at the time, you know, he just enjoyed every moment of it. And his happy place was when he was on that stage and he had the crowds and he was performing to everyone and Tom was such a hard worker. Alison Yeah. Yeah. I mean they they achieved huge success, didn't they? I mean, weren't they the only boy band to get a top five hit in America, so there was some. There was some really amazing. Yeah, like achievement that they that they got. Kelsey Yeah, they did. They did break America before, like any other boy bands did. And yeah, they were. Now, looking back as well, like I'm just so happy with his path and his journey that he had. Because, we did live a very normal life as well, so you know he was had this huge fame and success, but we did, we managed to live a normal life too. Um and I think that was so good for him to be able to live a life like that. Wendy I feel sorry for our girls, Alison, there aren't boy bands like they used to be are there. They're just not the same. Alison Really not like back when I was a teenager and it was all like, Take That and Boyzone, I mean those were the days. Wendy Exactly! Sorry, I interrupted. Alison Now Kelsey, you've said that there's no rule book for losing someone that you love. And you know, there's no kind of instruction manual, I guess. How have you been guided through your grief? Kelsey Do you know what I've just gone with my gut and what feels right, and I think that's what me and Tom did when he was diagnosed. Like I never actually thought to myself, you know? About even a prognosis for him, we never got a prognosis. But I just think deep down, I knew that a prognosis was never good for Tom. So that was like in my gut. That was telling me. Don't get a prognosis. Don't get a prognosis. So you know, after we lost him it was, 'How do I move forward with my life and what's my gut telling me?' I do think people have found it quite difficult to, you know understand how I told the kids how their dad died. I was very honest with them the day that he was going to die. Obviously his breathing changed, I knew he was gonna die that day. I told them that I'm just gonna go and make sure that angels come and and collect daddy today. And I think people have really struggled with that. And then we lost Tom. I came home the next day and I said Daddy's dead he’s not coming back. Now he's with the angels and the butterflies and we've gotta get on with our lives and and I think people are really shocked, but I got advice with what wording to use and they say like don't say he's gone to sleep or he's gone away because, well, they're gonna be scared to sleep. They're gonna be scared if I go away anywhere, am I gonna come back? And we just, you know, even on that day that we we we lost him we came home and the kids went to school the next day because life has to continue. And it has to move on and there is no rule book. And if there was a a rule book on grief, I would quite like it because, you know. Some people, people are quite critical of, you know, how I'm living my life. But there is no rulebook and like you have to go with what you what your heart and your guts telling you, I think. Wendy But that's awful to be criticised for it because you can't. You're only doing what you think is the right thing for your kids. Do you, do you talk about him a lot? And are there little ways that you kind of remember him with them? Kelsey Well, Tom's very present in the house. I mean, you can see now behind me that you know, I've still got all pictures up of me and Tom, we've got our wedding pictures up. And they are, you know, with the kids, they are so much like their dads so they'll do things like ohh you are your father's daughter or you are your father's son and they look like Tom. So it's like a constant reminder, and so we just celebrate him because he would have wanted that, yeah. Wendy Absolutely. Someone said to me, a friend of mine really sadly lost her little boy and she took some advice on how to guide her other kids to it and the really useful thing that came out of that was that the councillor said that for kids, grief is like jumping in and out of puddles. So one minute they're in it and they feel it really strongly and then literally the next minute, they want to know if they can watch Bluey and have cheese on toast and there's no. So they don't grieve in the same way adults do because they don't have that attention span. They're in it. Something happens, they really miss Tom and then they're, they hop back out of the puddle and they're out of it again. Kelsey Yeah. Or they ask me questions, you know, they'll go. Ohh. What did Aurelia just say? Oh, I said, oh, you know, Daddy did use to put you to bed and she was like, did he? Because she now can't really remember that, can she? And I said, yeah, Daddy used to put you to bed, that’s what Daddy did, and then she's, then we've had a conversation and she's happy. And it's very much that. I, I used to say, you know, even when Tom was diagnosed, I said you're not gonna come into our house and you won't find sadness. Kelsey Because the life’s gotta continue, you know he has been diagnosed with a a terminal illness, but we're remaining positive since he's passed away. The house is still full of laughter and happiness. Cause how can I punish my children for my? You know, I'm devastated that we've lost him, they will be one day. But like you said, it is that jumping in and out of of the the puddles. And they will remember him. And then not. And and we'll talk about him and then won't talk about him so yeah. Alison And what are the things that you're doing like to look after your mental health because looking after two kids, it's a lot like it's a lot, even if you've got a partner, it's a lot solo. Never mind doing it whilst you're grieving at the same time. Kelsey Yeah, I just think I'm really good at being able to, to deal with the grief and and everything that's gone on like I'm not actively seeking, you know, counselling or anything, but I am really into alternative therapies so I do a lot of reiki and I'm I'm into homeopathy. So I'll take like remedies and stuff so. It's it's just doing what's right for me, really yoga. But I, I'm really I'm really good at talking as well. So if I'm having a bad day I will. I can verbalise that and say I'm having a bad day because XY and Z and then I can then go OK and then move on from it. Wendy Who do you turn to for that? Who is your kind of? Chosen person for rants. Kelsey Do you know what? I'm so lucky. I always talk about the village, so I wouldn’t have been able to get through everything without the village. And I feel like a lot of people have lost their villages. But I've got my mum, my auntie, my best friends. Well, actually, so many best friends. And they're all there for me. And if I'm having a bad day, they're there to, like, pick up the pieces, even like my own nan, like my Nan is is obviously like in their 80s now, she just lost my granddad last year. So where were we were, we were somewhere the other day. Oh, no. Me and her went to the theatre and I was like, look at us now and it's like we don't stay out, me and you. Alison Do you find? Do you find laughing about it helps. Like, do you find just finding that that thing to laugh about you know, is it important to you? Kelsey Yeah. Well, you know, I'm 33. I'm a widow. And I'm left with two kids like, this is not where I thought my life was going to be. Like I said, I met Tom at 19. He was the love of my life. My soul mate my everything, and then it all. I just feel like the rug was ripped from underneath me and I think if you don't laugh… Wendy You have to find humour in it otherwise... Kelsey Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I'll be just so I won't be able to get myself up, up off the ground so. Yeah, we do laugh about it. Alison Now I've got to say, talking to you today, you are coming across like the most incredibly strong person and some of the things that have been said about you in the last year or two are superwoman, brave, tower of strength, resilient. Do you feel like those things like, do you identify with those descriptive words? Kelsey It's so hard because the people I've just trekked to have, you know, they've some of them have got stage 4 cancer. Like they're brave, they're inspirational. They're everything. I I think where we all connect on this is these are the cards we've been dealt. So you do just have to get on with it like yeah maybe. Maybe I have been able to cope bit better than somebody else, but that doesn't mean I'm right or wrong the way I'm I'm coping with it. Wendy When you say you've said you're not a grief expert, but you've written your book because you've lived that experience of someone you love dying. So what's your hope for the book? What do you want it to do? Kelsey I just want people to read it and think, you know, there is. There is light at the end of the tunnel somewhere, and, and it might not be, it might be 10 years for somebody else. But there is, there's got to be some sort of goodness that comes out of this really bad situation and mine is that I get to raise awareness and I get to share my story with people. Alison Was it cathartic to write the book? I mean, you you said that you're not seeking counselling, but did you? Almost. You know, did you almost kind of treat this as a chance to really kind of get your thoughts in order? Kelsey Yeah, the book is that is my counselling like I read the book and I actually can't believe that, that's my life. I read it and I think Oh my God. Like I've actually lived this, but I think also from the day he was diagnosed I was just like, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Like just seeking everything that I could to, you know, make him better, make him live longer. Kelsey And then when he passed, it was like right now. How do I do it for me and the children? So I just think I've been on on, I don't know, turbo power. But then reading the book. And reflecting on the book, I can't get through it without crying. It's just really, really tough for me to actually read it and think this is my, this is my life. Wendy You talked about the turbo power there. We had an experience in our family where my daughter had cancer and one of the things I found at that point was that you become. A medical expert, you become a councillor. You become all of these things and your house becomes very medicalised and talking about it like that, that turbo power is exactly how I would have said it as well. It's where you just have to go get on. And did you find. Once or for me, once all of that was removed, I felt this kind of slightly strange. Well, what do I do now? Because it was gone and that was what I did. Wendy Did you have that? That kind of all of the medical stuff, all of my purpose you were doing so much careing. Once it's gone, it's a bit like oh, what do I do now? Kelsey Yeah. And for me it was like I went to the ends of the earth for Tom. Like there wasn't anything that I didn't do. Even down to you. If you read the book. I've read the book that I flew a doctor over from Spain to give him a treatment that he really, really wanted, like. But I didn't have. I didn't have anyone that could speak Spanish. So I went to my performing art school is and got this lady Grace who was just literally like an angel and she came with me and, and yeah, that was even up until like the Hospice. I was still like, right. What we doing, what we're doing and then when he passed it, it was like, what do I do now? And I think for me, people were shocked, but I threw myself straight into work because work gave me purpose and I was spreading the message. And you know, I I I just, even before we jumped on this podcast, someone has messaged me saying I just watched your documentary that you did last year like thank you so much for doing it. I've got a terminal illness, but now you're giving me the hope that when I pass away that life does still continue for my loved one that's been left behind. So I just think it's for me. It's like I was doing it for, you know, I'm, I do a lot of for other people. But then I do take time out for myself. I'm really good at knowing what I need and knowing what everyone else has. I don't know. I think I can like TuneIn to myself and go, oh, this is what I need right now. Like, I need to take myself away from people or I need to be with people. Wendy We all need to be a bit more Kelsey. Alison Be more Kelsey, this is it, this is it. Has it been a comfort to have public support? Obviously Tom was very well known. You're well known. You know, you're trying to rebuild your life and crack on with, you know, looking after your kids. Have there been times that you've wished you could do a bit more privately? Kelsey No, because I think we've always lived in the public eye from such a young age. Me and Tom, that it just felt natural and even the reason we went public with his. With having the glioblastoma is 1 to obviously raise awareness that that in itself like brain tumours, get 1% of funding. So we needed to to raise awareness but. Tom loved his fans and he loved them so much and he wanted the support from them. So for us it was like a no brainer that he went public with it. And then I think even like the follow on and the the effect that that's had is that I've changed so many people's lives as well from showing how I'm coping with grief. Wendy You say in the book that you feel guilty that Tom isn't here and you are. Is that something that happens quite a lot. Kelsey I just think guilt is one of them, one of the you know there's five. There's five ways to grieve um and I just think guilt is just, you know, it's, it's a given that you're gonna feel like that because you know, when I get to see my kids, you know, Aurelia started school for the first day. Of course. I'm gonna be like, I wish he was here to, to, to be with me. Like it’s just a natural feeling of guilt. I think and you know, we get guilty as mums just in general. Wendy That's what I was just gonna say, like the mum, guilt is ever present, anyway. I think women are. It's our special skill is guilt, isn't it? Kelsey Yeah. I literally just dropped her at school and she's just a bit emotional at the moment. I think she's a bit of an empath. So she takes other people on. And then a lot of the kids are crying. So she now thinks Ohh should I be crying? I know, you shouldn't be, but then part of me thinks, oh, she probably just wants to come out and have a nice little lunch with me. DO you know what I mean? So I just feel like. Wendy How has she got on? How has the kind of start because Alison's twins started reception this year as well. So. Kelsey This, like the first week was fine, but like I said, this like last week cause other children were crying. It set her off ans now, like today. She was fine. Then by the time she got into playground, another child was crying. And then that just throws her, Wendy Oh love her. Kelsey I know it breaks my heart because she's not like that. She's so confident and positive. So it was. It's quite it's been quite a shock for me to see her like that. 00:23:00 Alison It's such a big thing, isn't it? For kids, even if, like you say they're normally happy as Larry, just seeing other kids can really unsettle them. Um, now Kelsey. um, I've heard you describing Tom's death as magical, which isn't usually a word that we use to describe death. Tell us what made it so special. Kelsey I think for Tom, the reason his death was magical was because we'd worked so hard to keep him so healthy, so he wasn't in any pain. He didn't look, you know, some people that have brain tumours are very swollen. They're having seizures. Like he didn't have any of that. He was still had a really nice colour and, and you know, we had this whole exchange of crystals and it was just a magical, death. If I could die like Tom. I would be really happy. It was honestly, just like his soul left him and he and he. And he passed over where his, uh, we lost my granddad. What was grandad? He was in the December. So what's? That like 8 months after, nine months after. Kelsey And my granddad really fought it.. He, he didn't really want to die and he he fought that of like. Like, who's going to my mum and my auntie like, can you just do something? Can you just do something? Cause he didn't really want to die, whereas Tom did just like go with it. I don't know. I don't. Do you guys believe in the soul and, and anything like that? Because if you do, it was like his soul just left his body and he was very happy and I went out after he died, I went downstairs in the Hospice and a feather fell from the sky. Out of nowhere, a feather fell from the sky and I felt like that was a message for him to say to me, Kels it wasn't that bad? I'm alright. Yeah, because he was so scared. Wendy Funny you should say that there's a book called With The End In Mind my friend gave it. She was like, now, you're gonna think I'm mad, but it's a book about dying. But read it, it's really good. And I was like, OK, fine. And what I find really, it's basically written by a lady who's a Doctor who works in a Hospice and she talks about how in the modern world we don't, we're not used to what death looks like or what death, how death happen. Where back in the day when Grandpa died on the kitchen table, because that's where you put someone and you cared for them or whatever. Yeah, people kind of understood that death can be really peaceful, and it can just be this transition from here to not here. And it's really fascinating because you've described it exactly as she has described it. Wendy So it's obviously. And she talks about the fact there's a pattern to death that we don't really realise in the modern world. Kelsey Yeah. It is. It was just magical and that and people probably just think I’m an absolute nutter don't they, but it it was that. And it's, he made me not scared to to die, even though I've never have been and I think that we've always crossed on that me and Tom because he was so deep and I'm obviously was never really that deep and he used to be like ohh. He used to say that about the soul and leaving. And I’d say when you die, you die. But actually watching him die made me go. You know what the soul does Leave and it and it goes somewhere else. Alison Do you tink that his death has made you more spiritual because you've spoken about. You know, really feeling his presence, seeing that feather, seeing signs from him has it has it made you kind of re evaluate things? Kelsey Well, I do think it was on the build up of him dying because when I was looking at his cancer and stuff like this, like we're all made-up ourselves and we're all energy. So we're taught in science, energy can't be destroyed. It can only be transferred. So when you die, where do you go? You're you're an energy. It can't be destroyed. You've got to transfer to somewhere else. So I think that's made me believe more and also he just yeah. Sends me signs all the time well, Alison Can you tell us what you see. Kelsey Especially when he first, I think he passed over quite quickly and because my car alarms were going off, my gate at the front of the house got locked and it wouldn't open again. Then feathers, so many feathers. If ever I'm like down they'll, a feather will appear and I'm like oh there he is. But like that. Like literally coming outside and obviously you know it's it is all a bit of a blur, losing him. But coming outside and sitting down on the bench. I didn't go to the family room and see anyone, I literally went straight downstairs and a feather fell from the sky and I was just, like Wendy Well and, we how often does that happen, right? Unless it’s Trafalger Square when it's a mankey bit of pigeon that falls on you, most of the time feathers don't just fall on you. Kelsey Yeah, no. And it was like that. And then I picked up and I was like, right. I better keep this feather. And I've still got the feather now. Wendy So what advice this is always a tricky one because you've said it's all really individual. Do you have any advice for someone going through the same or similar thing to what you've been through? Kelsey For me it was just the positivity remaining positive. We called ourselves the positive parkers. We danced a lot. We sang, just keeping your energy and your vibrations high. That did help for us and it it makes you feel better and you know there's videos on my Instagram and Tom's Instagram of us dancing at home together because it made us like, raise our vibrations. Alison Yeah. Well, Kelsey, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been wonderful to talk to you and hear about the book and everything you're doing to raise awareness. You're doing such an important job, so thank you. Kelsey Thank you, ladies. Thanks for having me Wendy And I really hope your legs start to feel a bit better. Go and have an ice bath. A nice bath. Kelsey Ohh I will I will. Alison Thank you, Kelsey. It's been a pleasure. Kelsey Thank you. Thank you.